Author Topic: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips  (Read 4213 times)

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Offline Tsyu

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More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« on: June 12, 2014, 03:14:50 am »
I noticed a while ago that the Insanity rips of the Lemmings 2/3 music on Mindless's site (<a href="http://www.camanis.net/lemmings/music.php" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">here</a>) weren't accurate to the originals: Volume commands weren't converted from decimal to hex, slide effects weren't adjusted, some of the notes were assigned the wrong octave, and some other minor inaccuracies.

This got me to try converting the music myself. Since I couldn't find a good MED converter, I decided to made my own. It took a while, mainly because of the way that slide effects work in MED (the specs mention "ST/NT/PT compatible sliding," which made me think of the Atari computers; I didn't figure out until several days ago that it was referring to SoundTracker, NoiseTracker, and ProTracker!). Also, because MED supports tempos much higher that what MOD can handle (and many of the Lemmings 2 tracks take advantage of this), I still had to manually edit the resulting MOD files, which took a while in some cases.

Anyway, here are the files that I was able to produce. They should sound almost exactly the same as the originals, with none of the problems present in the Insanity rips.

Lemmings 2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/spzybctcm4ex9gz/Lemmings2_MODs.zip?dl=1
Lemmings 3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cuh0m87hebh4d42/Lemmings3_MODs.zip?dl=1
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 06:11:41 am by Tsyu »

Offline Mindless

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2014, 03:11:38 pm »
Neat.  How is your MED-converter tool built?  I've been meaning to rebuild and release my SJS-converter tool, but conversion has always included a significant manual-input process, so I've not done it.

Offline Tsyu

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2014, 11:24:51 pm »
How is your MED-converter tool built?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Are you asking what language I wrote the tool in (it's Java)? Or are you asking what the program does to convert MED files to MOD? (I'm guessing you want to know the latter.)

Offline Mindless

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2014, 06:59:01 am »
What it does for MED to MOD would be interesting, but mostly I was wondering how you produced the MOD file -- a MOD library or something you built yourself?

Offline Tsyu

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2014, 12:56:03 am »
I made the MOD writer myself. In case you're interested, here are the documents that I used to learn about the MOD and MED formats:

MOD:
MED:

Offline Mindless

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2014, 08:11:45 am »
I re-ripped the Lemmings/ONML/Holiday Lemmings music.  Really the only nearly-significant thing that changed was the speed of the songs were all a bit off before.  The sample names in the MODs now reflect the file names of the original samples.
I put up the SJS-to-MOD converter source code also -- not that it's terribly useful after it's done its job once since the Amiga Lemmings series were the only games known to have used the format. :P

Offline Tsyu

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2014, 10:35:20 pm »
I noticed that, when your code rips a sample, it reads every byte of the body after the size value. Instead, the number of bytes it should read should be the sum of oneShotHighOctaveSamples and repeatHighOctaveSamples (as your code calls them), which is sometimes a few bytes less than the size of the body. This is necessary to prevent certain samples (like the one that's called "drum") from having annoying clicks at the end.

I also noticed that most of your new ONML MODs start a row late. Is this really how the original files are like, or is it caused by a bug in your program?

(Also, I've got to say, thank you very much for leaving in the sample numbers where the B-3 notes were meant to go. This allowed me to add them back in for SuperLemmini.)

Offline Mindless

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2014, 05:20:16 am »
This is necessary to prevent certain samples (like the one that's called "drum") from having annoying clicks at the end.
Oh, good to know.  I noticed the clicks, but I didn't know that I was overreading the sample.

I also noticed that most of your new ONML MODs start a row late. Is this really how the original files are like, or is it caused by a bug in your program?
SJS modules aren't necessarily a multiple of 64 rows, so I collapse the initial silent rows of the module until it is a multiple of 64 rows.  (The initial rows set the volumes and turn off the Amiga's high-cut filter.)  I believe the Lemmings songs were composed in SoundFX (hence the BPM calculation) which did require a multiple of 64 rows, but converting them to SJS required adding the set-up rows.  Technically, collapsing the initial rows probably affects song looping compared to the actual game, but I don't feel bad about losing the initial rows because they were incidental rather than intentional.

The Oh No, More Lemmings! tracks are a multiple of 64 rows, so nothing gets collapsed.  (For example, Tim1 is 898 rows % 64 = 2, but Tune1 is 768 rows % 64 = 0.)  When I ripped them semi-manually I probably just stuck the first note in the first row.

The exception is the Lemmings intro tune which is its own weirdness.

(Also, I've got to say, thank you very much for leaving in the sample numbers where the B-3 notes were meant to go. This allowed me to add them back in for SuperLemmini.)
They don't play, so no reason to take them out. ;P

Offline Mindless

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2014, 03:21:57 am »
I just realized that there are some songs in the Amiga Lemmings demo that aren't used in the demo.  So here is a rip of the Amiga Lemmings demo music.  The unused songs aren't terribly useful, but they're kinda fun.

I based the rips on the "Wanted Team" SJS/SMP files because, as far as I can tell, the information for the unused music that maps instrument numbers to samples isn't included on the disk.  It's definitely not where the information for the music that actually was used is stored.  (I guess maybe the "Wanted Team" just picked samples that they thought fit?)

Offline Tsyu

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2014, 06:50:15 am »
Interesting. If there's lots of music that isn't used, I wonder if the same is true for the levels. I know that the Amiga demo has five levels for one-player mode and two for two-player, one of which didn't make it into the final game. Could you check to see whether the demo has more levels than those seven?

(And I know that this is getting off-topic, but I can't seem to find the answer to this: Was the Amiga Lemmings demo released to the public back when it was made, or was it used only internally and in promotional material?)

Offline Mindless

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2014, 02:42:06 pm »
I can't say there's anything terribly interesting in the Amiga Lemmings demo level files, unfortunately.

As for what the demo was used for, I don't know any more than you do. :P

Offline Prob Lem

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2014, 08:35:31 pm »
I just realized that there are some songs in the Amiga Lemmings demo that aren't used in the demo.  So here is a rip of the Amiga Lemmings demo music.  The unused songs aren't terribly useful, but they're kinda fun.

I based the rips on the "Wanted Team" SJS/SMP files because, as far as I can tell, the information for the unused music that maps instrument numbers to samples isn't included on the disk.  It's definitely not where the information for the music that actually was used is stored.  (I guess maybe the "Wanted Team" just picked samples that they thought fit?)
Only "kinda fun"?! ;) That's an understatement if ever I saw one - this is the game's *original* original soundtrack! What a brilliant find! Congratulations! :thumbsup:

I always wondered what the game sounded like before they brought Tim Wright in to stop the soundtrack from (as I've roughly heard it described) infringing on countless copyrights, and what's more, the Scooby-Doo theme being in there fully explains why there's samples in Lemmings' rendition of How Much Is That Doggie In The Window? that sound extremely Scooby-Doo-like (I'm a big fan of the show - I noticed it from the very first time I heard it).

Many, many thanks for answering a question that's not only been driving me nuts for years, but that I didn't actually expect ever to be answered. ;)

I'll get this MP3'ed when I can, as I've done with mods from various ports of the game.

(And I know that this is getting off-topic, but I can't seem to find the answer to this: Was the Amiga Lemmings demo released to the public back when it was made, or was it used only internally and in promotional material?)
As for what the demo was used for, I don't know any more than you do. :P
I can answer that.

It was used for both press and public promotion. A crack of the demo with the old rocky-looking title card, cracked by the Amiga cracking group Skid Row, exists in standalone form, and given the title card's presence, I'd wager that they got it from a press contact (as was, apparently, something that happened with such groups). Reason being, the exact same demo appears on the cover-disks of the December 1990 issue of CU Amiga, and Issue 174 of Amiga Format, from January 1991, but with the title card cut out on at least the Amiga Format disk (the download for the CU Amiga one had to be removed, as it was an iffy dump containing a virus).

I've never actually had the time to give the demo a proper look before, but I'm really glad that you guys prompted me to do so with this discussion here. :D The little differences are odd, like the Bombers not clutching their heads before exploding, and only freezing with a question-mark above their noggins, instead, and the apparent lack of the shrugging animation when a Builder runs out of bricks.

EDIT: Oops, it appears that the standalone demo implements the head-clutching Bombers, the shrugging Builders, better collision-detection and priorities, the correct explosion noise, and the formerly missing sound effects from the Amiga Format one when using Z and X to switch skills when paused (as well as being able to use P to unpause, and probably other hotkeys as well), so it's ever-so-slightly different (I also notice that the rock in This should be a doddle! no longer has a completely flat side in this one). I suspect that the CU Amiga one is identical to the standalone one that was cracked by Skid Row, though, since it's from the same time. Sorry for the minor error - I'm still floored by the soundtrack find. :D

EDIT: Wow, turns out the standalone demo has slightly different levels, as well. You guys might want to have a look at the Amiga Format one, then! It's pretty clearly even older, given the magazine publishing lead-times of the day. And it has a level that, as far as I know, is not in the final game, "One Way to Freedom" ( LPVMXDGJIO ).

EDIT: Yep, yet another edit. I have no idea if the two-player levels have any differences, but in the standalone and Amiga Format demos, there a couple of shared levels that are different to each other and to the final game, as well. I also found out that the standalone demo is similar to, but apparently not quite the same as, one given out at a computer show of the era (which has different levels and a slightly different level order, again), and that it was possible to also get these demos by post directly from Psygnosis, which may also be the origin of the standalone demo.

Offline Mindless

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 03:32:44 am »
EDIT: Wow, turns out the standalone demo has slightly different levels, as well. You guys might want to have a look at the Amiga Format one, then!

Unfortunately, I don't know how to get the files off of the cover disk.  I would suspect they cut anything extra though, since there had to be multiple demos on one floppy.

Offline Tsyu

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2014, 07:19:23 am »
I'll take a look at the Amiga Format demo once I am able to download Amiga Forever again. If that demo works like the full version of Lemmings, I should be able to rip that level (and any other levels that aren't in the final release) from an uncompressed savestate.

Offline Prob Lem

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2014, 02:46:57 pm »
EDIT: Wow, turns out the standalone demo has slightly different levels, as well. You guys might want to have a look at the Amiga Format one, then!

Unfortunately, I don't know how to get the files off of the cover disk.  I would suspect they cut anything extra though, since there had to be multiple demos on one floppy.
I don't either - I never had an Amiga of my own (I only experienced it via other people), so I lack the experience required. I'm going to ask some folks I know who might know, though.

I'll take a look at the Amiga Format demo once I am able to download Amiga Forever again. If that demo works like the full version of Lemmings, I should be able to rip that level (and any other levels that aren't in the final release) from an uncompressed savestate.
Oh, awesome! :D

The unused level, One Way to Freedom, is really rather good, incidentally. I even found that there's a (slightly glitchy, as it depends on utilising this earlier rendition of the collision-detection in a particular way, in order to turn around at one point) way of saving 100% of the lemmings in it.

Offline Prob Lem

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2014, 04:20:29 pm »
Right, an awesome soul helped me out and got the entire contents out of the Amiga Format issue 18 cover-disk image. :thumbsup: I've attached the zip file that they gave me.

Can anyone do anything with this stuff?

Offline Leo

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2014, 11:10:33 pm »
Well, this thing is complicated. All that matters here is just one file, "lemmings" and it's just 67KB. It is compressed (self-extract file), but I can't find which compressor is used and how to uncompress it. To be more complicated, this file don't want to work if 'Amiga Format 18 cover-disk' is not in one of the floppy drives.

Of course, after the game is started all data is uncompressed in the memory. So, it can be saved from the emulator as a state file. But, is this can be of any use to anyone? I can't tell.

Offline Mindless

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2014, 03:28:56 am »
Most likely the "lemmings" file is just a launcher, and the actual files are stored on the floppy outside the filesystem.  Usually you can get the files from Amiga Lemmings disks using the "rippsyfiles" tool that comes with JST, but it doesn't work on this disk.

Offline Leo

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2014, 11:10:33 pm »
There is some 'unused' space on that floppy disk (almost 240KB). It appears to contain some Lemmings data. So, just extracted file without the floppy image is useless.

Offline Tsyu

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2014, 06:31:53 am »
Cloanto (the developer of Amiga Forever) is taking a while to respond, so I decided to install WinUAE and use the ROMs from an old version of Amiga Forever that I have lying around.

Anyway, I was able to rip One Way to Freedom from a savestate. Here it is: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjovzrlyi42ra6k/OneWayToFreedom.lvl?dl=1

I think there are only three 1-player levels in that demo because the only 2-player level is labeled "level 4."

EDIT: I have just now confirmed that there are only three 1-player levels. In case anyone's curious, here's the message that appears at the end (misspellings are not mine):
Quote
The full game contains over 100 levels!
made up of five graphic styles with
many weird and wonderfull traps to avoid

Over twenty toe tapping tunes, or full
blown sound effects that are not in
this demo.

What are you waiting for, go and buy
Lemmings NOW, addiction guaranteed.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 06:16:32 am by Tsyu »

Offline Prob Lem

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Re: More accurate Lemmings 2/3 Amiga music rips
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2014, 05:52:39 pm »
Yeah, there are only the three single-player levels in the Amiga Format demo.

Incidentally, the later standalone demo corrects the typographical errors in the advertising text at the end.