Lix Community Level Set

[chaos_defrost]

Yea, Proxima's solution is the intended solution to the original version of the tree, I think what I'm going to do is remove the steel, since that forces both diggers to be used. The other part of the trick isn't used, but I just made a level that does that so it's no big loss.

[Proxima]

That replay doesn't work for me; can you post the version of the level you have? (Here's mine, and my solution.)

Better, I just saved a new replay using that version. In your solution, you could have used fewer skills by making the walker dig the left pillar.

Yea, Proxima's solution is the intended solution to the original version of the tree, I think what I'm going to do is remove the steel, since that forces both diggers to be used. The other part of the trick isn't used, but I just made a level that does that so it's no big loss.

Hmm, without the steel, one digger can still release the other, but how will you stop the second one? Anyway, Simon confirmed on IRC last night that the digger turning behaviour is being taken out. Incidentally, I really like the appearance of this level and the way the tree fits with the brick terrain!

[chaos_defrost]

Hmm, without the steel, one digger can still release the other, but how will you stop the second one?

There's a way to beat it, but it does need another climber. I reattached the level.

[Proxima]

Ah yes I think I prefer this version, it's a little trickier to spot all the ideas you need, and the extra climber makes the red herring of a climb-bomb at the top-left corner of the wall more plausible (as well as making a neat pattern with the skill numbers).

Also, finally beat Well OK Then. In a way, less hard than I thought, because the number of jumpers available really limits the possibilities for where you construct the route down. However, the precision needed seems pretty nasty -- I'd definitely raise the difficulty rating to somewhere in the 2.3 to 2.5 range for that alone.

(Talking of difficulty ratings, one problem with the list is that I think some levels' ratings haven't been increased, or if so then not enough, to take account of subsequent de-backrouted versions obviously being harder. Fnargl, Toccata, Buridan and Waltz in C# Miner jump out as being examples.)

[Nortaneous]

Fixing Another Lix by taking out the bomber, since it's not used in the intended solution.

If diggers turning on steel is being removed, we'll need to fix the levels that currently rely on it: swap out a digger for a miner in Fnargl, etc. (I'd playtest it again, but in the backroute-killing, I removed the solution that I used, and I can't remember the new one.)

[Proxima]

Well, after a comment like that, how could I not go back and solve it for myself? 

[mobius]

I hope this level isn't too much like somebody else's because I haven't had the time to even look at any of the new ones. I finally succeeding in making a level with no builders (& almost 1 of each skill).

[Proxima]

One of each skill and no builders has been done (Halfway Down the Stairs) but in terms of solution concept, this level isn't like any of the others, and contains a couple of new tricks that I rather like. Here's how I did it.

[mobius]

damn backroutes... the route of all evil. 

a good solution indeed, however I want the cube to be used much differently. It'll take some time to work out.

in my post; I was referring to myself and my levels not in general. But what is more important is I finally made a level with a cuber. I also realize I neglected some of my older levels, specifically Soulful Leap. I didn't have the time.

[Proxima]

Did you intend something more like this, then?

[mobius]

wow... these backroutes are tough to get rid of. And I'm not entirely sure I want to either. You said you liked the level and you don't think it's too easy as is? The thing is, the required saved # is a factor here... If your interested, I attached my solution for feedback.

In any case; I have a possible fix for one; and that is a oow which I think would look interesting as well (make it look a little more challenging) although digger behavior on oow would be a factor in this.
for the second; adding 1 or multiple large steel blocks to the top left corner of the lower terrain would fix that up but I really don't like the way that looks for some reason.

on another note: did a working version of Brickout ever get made? Because if you ever decide to do away with it (i hope not); I really like the idea behind it (not the borderline glitchy part but the other part). I think it's hidden well and I'd like to make a level similar to this if you change brickout greatly.

[Proxima]

wow... these backroutes are tough to get rid of. And I'm not entirely sure I want to either. You said you liked the level and you don't think it's too easy as is? The thing is, the required saved # is a factor here... If your interested, I attached my solution for feedback.

Very nice. Well, if you do decide to eliminate my solutions, since you use the miner merely as a turn-round, while both my solutions need it for digging, you could kill both at once by replacing the miner with a second walker or jumper. Unfortunately, that would make the use of the cuber much more obvious, and eliminate some red-herrings that I spent a while on before finding the solution(s).

Conversely, this may not be the direction you want to go in, but I just noticed that the level could be tightened while still allowing both my solutions by requiring 59/60 saved. My second replay already saves 59, and in my first solution, using your idea of jumping from the very edge of the wall gets rid of the need for the cuber.

EDIT: Another possibility is to make it a true one-of-each: remove one climber and floater. That kills my first solution but allows my second (I used a second floater to save an extra lix, but without it, I still save 58.) Your solution can quite easily still be done.

EDIT: In fact... well, just look at the filename 

[chaos_defrost]

Let me have a look at the level, one second.

And one more for the mix. Not the hardest but I kind of like it.

EDIT: My solution, saves 59 and leaves a few tasks. I like this trick, though.

[mobius]

I think I'm going to make 59/60 required and leave a few different solutions available. I almost have to, I don't wanna make any real drastic changes to the layout. I want it to look fairly neat and simple at first. the feedback was very helpful. 
After that I think I'm going to leave it as is for now at least. Proxima's second solution is good enough. (it would do away with my own solution but I used a similar miner trick on my last level anyway). Steve's solution is still possible but I don't think many people will see that (at least not before the other solutions)
However, Steve's solution is savagely genius enough that I may  make two version of this level.  Either that or I'll make another level using that trick. (Unless you plan to)

I didn't bother to upload it since all that needs changing is the required #. Just change the # to 59/60 (if you add this one to the list).

I like Endeavor. I haven't solved it after a few minutes yet so it's not extremely easy.

EDIT: ignore the edit

~~~~~~
I've noticed that in many of the cases, having more skills or a variety and simpler landscape makes a more difficult level. The key is to have many options available while most are red herrings. (making a person go down the wrong line of thinking which can be hard to get out of). But that's just what I've observed.

[chaos_defrost]

Part of me wants to remove the laser in Endeavor, just because it looks a bit weird with the rest of the terrain and I also don't think that it actually opens up any new solutions. Now that I think about it Endeavor is a bit harder than I first thought.

As for my solution to your latest level, I'd say go for it, you have a good terrain for a part 2 version of the level using that trick.