Community Request: Find Backroutes!

[mobius]

@Crane: I was testing Blast furnace (part two) and I feel like the backroutes aren't quite removed. At least, I think this solution is possible in 1. Duh, but it still feels backroutish.
attached a replay. I'm still don't know what the intended solution is.
I used the level you gave me in that folder named "Crane Updates". Not sure which version of superlemmini I have but it's the latest if he hasn't made any major updates recently.


@Nepster: Glad you liked Brokeback mountain, I'm guess you didn't bother with the original version?
In that:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

you can send a climber from the left group, I also erased some terrain by the water because in my solution I didn't meet two builders.

Unless other problems are discovered I won't make any further changes.Your solution is almost like geoo's. You just removed two unnecessary  steps [which seem obvious in hindsight but I didn't think of them when playing it, turns out their not important anyway..]
I also made the area around the trap flatter so it's easier to build over.

Your solution to blockafloater was also like mine. I'm surprised you found so many other routes to that; my route seemed rather obvious and I have a habit of totally ignoring obvious clues like the title.
I'm not sure however whether to leave in your initial solution of mining to the left/into that area [remove the trap]

[Crane]

I give up - I'm sorry.  I'm not cut out for this.  I just cannot see the simplest solutions sometimes, and I can't even solve other people's levels. *sighs* I surrender.

[mobius]

I give up - I'm sorry.  I'm not cut out for this.  I just cannot see the simplest solutions sometimes, and I can't even solve other people's levels. *sighs* I surrender.

don't give up. This level must be hard because it really confuses me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I had a few ideas; one is somehow going underneath the "blast furnace" but I couldn't find a way to do that yet. The only other option (that is; NOT going underneath) is basically just how most people solved part 1 but you said that is also a backroute.
I imagined a lot of things to do in this level but none of them really do any good in solving it 

And I can't solve other people's level (in a timely manner anyway) either, so don't feel bad about that. I solved Akseli's first level a year and six months after he released it. 
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since Essman said he's working on Cheapo, I will wait and see if I can get at least Lemmings of Persia. I'm also interested in Minesweeper Lemmings.
Oh yeah---I really want to get a Mario level 
I'd like to remake Hotel in Hell but I have not solved this level. Nepster (or anyone) who's solved it could you test what I remake here? I realize the Lix version is significantly different from Cheapo. [I did not solve either] I think remaking the Cheapo version is more practical for SuperLemmini. I would guess that the solutions are different for each...
Oh yeah 1 more thing, I previously wanted to in include InsaneSteve's Tribute to Benny Hill but have not solved that one either so if someone can test what I make. In that case I'll remake the Lix version.

[Nepster]

@Crane: It is a pity that you give up, because your levels feel like great ones. In case you really want to surrender: I can offer (to try) to patch the backroutes myself, assuming you give me your intended solution (perhaps by PM).

@mobius:
BlockAFloater:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

When I first saw this level, I assumed that the triangle, that is cut out from the wall, was just added at the end to prevent a backroute (as it indeed prevents a backroute!). So I always thought about how to avoid going there.

Brokeback mountain: No, I did not try the original version. I already spend too much time time on levels with unknown backroutes - no need to spend time on levels with known ones .
Hotel in Hell: I can try to solve your remake, but I never had Cheapo, so the intended solution is not known to me. The Lix version has multiple solutions, btw.
Tribute to Benny Hill: I am pretty sure about the intended solution (to the Lix version), so no problem in testing it. But remember, that the Lix version gives you 60 minutes, because the previously given 20 minutes were considered to be a too harsh time limit.

[Proxima]

The intended solutions to the Cheapo and Lix versions of The Hotel in Hell are the same, barring slight differences in the order of assigning tasks:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One lemming builds over the lower gap, while another starts building over the upper gap. One dies during the build (1) and another goes across the lower bridge and bombs out the trap trigger (2). RR 99. The fourth-last lemming blocks (3) so that three turn and only one is killed by the trap (4). The other two both float, and one blocks (5) to turn the other. Bomb this blocker. The one who turns bashes the pillar and builds across the wide gap, then dies (6). Meanwhile, the lemming who built over the lower gap goes along the long walkway and builds at the end to catch the crowd.

There are some variant solutions, but they all involve making use of the long walkway, which is the main thing I want to enforce.

[mobius]

@Crane: It is a pity that you give up, because your levels feel like great ones. In case you really want to surrender: I can offer (to try) to patch the backroutes myself, assuming you give me your intended solution (perhaps by PM).

@mobius:
BlockAFloater:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

When I first saw this level, I assumed that the triangle, that is cut out from the wall, was just added at the end to prevent a backroute (as it indeed prevents a backroute!). So I always thought about how to avoid going there.

Brokeback mountain: No, I did not try the original version. I already spend too much time time on levels with unknown backroutes - no need to spend time on levels with known ones .
Hotel in Hell: I can try to solve your remake, but I never had Cheapo, so the intended solution is not known to me. The Lix version has multiple solutions, btw.
Tribute to Benny Hill: I am pretty sure about the intended solution (to the Lix version), so no problem in testing it. But remember, that the Lix version gives you 60 minutes, because the previously given 20 minutes were considered to be a too harsh time limit.

I just solved Benny Hill [actually think I solved it before but forgot  ] The Cheapo version gives 32 minutes but I had plenty of time to spare. According to geoo there are really quick ways to solve the lix version..
But now I'm a little concerned it's a little similar to Flotilla [given a choice I think I'd rather go with Benny Hill]  Partly because I was thinking of adding Singular Squish II from Clam

@Proxima; thanks for the solution. I'd rather not read it because I wanted to solve this level myself.

[mobius]

@Crane: The most recent fixes created new solutions .
Jailbreak: Here is a completely new approach, solving the level in 4 minutes. Even if 8_1 is most likely not the intended solution, I like it quite much and would not mind if this solution is kept. As far as I remember, it is my first solution without using builders to create some kind of wall to turn lemmings around.
Solution 8_2 is much more usual and less elegant.
Btw. even with allowing for solutions like 8_1, this level is very hard and interesting.
Overflow: Two more solutions. One created by the last fix and one similar to 7_2 (but still having a basher spare).

because life is stupid and retarded when trying to watch your replays of Jailbreak the replay problem happened to me again even after doing the "correct" things.
I'm thinking we should go with this version of something close to it, but I'd like to see your replays first particularly this odd one. Do you have any ideas on how to prevent 8_2?
[I broke down and watched the solution on Crane's channel]

[Nepster]

When trying to watch your replays of Jailbreak the replay problem happened to me again even after doing the "correct" things.

The replays work fine on my computer using v0.98a (downloaded on december 6). So apart from having missed an update of SuperLemmini myself, I have no idea what causes these new problems.

Jailbreak: I still do not know the intended solution of this level, so any suggestion to remove solution 8_2 might as well remove the intended solution. Attached are two modifications of Jailbreak, that (hopefully) allow for none of my backroutes, except for 8_1.
Modification 1: Even thicker walls for the jails. This definitely removes the vast majority of my backroutes and most of Crane's modification will no longer be necessary with this change. The problem (and likely the reason why Crane has not done this long ago) is, that there is essentially only one way to free the upmost lemmings now: To build up and bash through the wall. But restricting the players options in such a way gives him/her a rather big hint, and I am not sure we want to do this.
Modification 2: I prefer this version, because it still allows the player to free the upmost lemmings using three bombers. However I am far less sure, that the backroutes really do no longer work. So before putting this version into the level pack, at least someone else should have a look at it.

Warning: I have not tested any of the modified versions! In particular they might be unsolvalbe (though I think this unlikely) and they might contain very stupid new backroutes. Once it is decided what type of modifications are preferred, I will have another closer look at the respective version.

[mobius]

I will check out these levels later.

I've been running into a lot of stupid problems lately; one of them being I'm having trouble getting Hotel in Hell to work correctly and I don't know why yet. Here is a remake made in the Epic set [a combination of all sets in one]. What I should have done was simply add the 10-ton trap to fire set. But that would require remaking the level again from scratch. I don't feel like doing that now.
I have not tested this to work 100% yet, because I forget how to solve it--after looking at the solution. But you can try.
I had to use Lemmini because for some reason SuperLemmini crashed when the 10-ton trap animation tried to play. Otherwise it worked. Also I can't seem to install the epic set into the NeoLemmix editor and I have to ask namida how to do that I guess.

I'll get around to making this good eventually, I really want to include this level, it's a good one. I just haven't felt like doing much lately.

If I can get it working I want to include at least one Mario level. I'm still looking through cheapo stuff for the minesweeper and Persia levels.

[edit] I attached two version of Hotel in Hell because I'm not sure why there are 2 and if they are different in any way]

[Crane]

I'm still working on the Lemmini levels, or rather I've taken a break from them.  In the meantime, I've patched the backroutes that Nepster found in Precarious Construction (Part 2).  I really hope I wouldn't have to put in the one-way wall, as it takes away some of the level's aesthetic as well as telling you what not to do, but it's all I could find that prevented the backroutes he found, especially the second one (and it's possible to pull that solution off without a second blocker if you time the bomber very carefully).

The first "Precarious Construction" is meant to closely mirror part 2, but putting in the one-way wall for part 1 will break its solution... another reason why I didn't want to put in the one-way wall.  Who knows, I may find something else that works, but for now, here is the next version.