Author Topic: What skills can't you live without?  (Read 104716 times)

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Offline Pooty

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #285 on: August 03, 2019, 08:08:59 PM »
Having a butcher's at the first half of Taxing.

Taxing 1 "Spaghetti Junction" - 6 turners
Taxing 3 "Let the Race Begin" - 4 bombers, 4 builders, 4 bashers
Taxing 4 "Poles Apart" - 1 turner, 5 builders, 4 bashers (climber and floater not needed)
Taxing 7 "If the Timing Is Right!" - 5 turners, 1 builder, 3 bashers, 1 digger
Taxing 8 "Rescue Team" - 9 turners, 4 bashers
Taxing 9 "Which Trampoline?" - 6 turners
« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 08:18:50 PM by Pooty »
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline LemSteven

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #286 on: August 07, 2019, 03:33:16 AM »
Tricky 19 "Stilt Walkers" - 4 turners, 2 builders

Reduced to 2 turners, 1 builder

2 Turners (click to show/hide)

1 Builder (click to show/hide)

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #287 on: August 07, 2019, 06:04:43 AM »
Taxing 11 "Chaos Maze" - 3 turners, 1 digger, 1 climber (Max saved solution uses that + 1 basher; solving without the basher is trivial; there's nowhere the wall is only 1 block high so climber + digger are very clearly required)
Taxing 13 "Motherboard" - 1 blocker, 2 turners, 1 builder (I spent a bit of time looking for other solutions, but didn't find any)
Taxing 14 "Away Team" - 5 turners
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Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #288 on: August 07, 2019, 10:21:37 AM »
Taxing 16 "The Arena" - 1 turner, 1 bomber, 1 builder maybe? (I didn't solve this - but the record is lose-2, and I'm pretty sure this level can't be done without the turner and builder, meaning 1 bomber?)
Taxing 17 "T Minus 5 And Counting" - None (the 100% solution uses only one skill, a basher; the same route can be done, lose-1, with a bomber replacing the basher)
Taxing 18 "Snake" - 1 blocker, 16 turners, 3 bombers (the max-saved solution achieves 3 bombers; however there aren't enough spare bombers to use this trick with the otherwise-normal solution and save a turner)

Regarding Mayhem 1 - I think it's possible to eliminate some skills, even though the normal way uses everything. However, in both cases, the timing required is insane, so I'm probably not going to be able to pull it off myself. I can't say for sure these are possible.
My ideas for Mayhem 1 (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 08:28:42 PM by namida »
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Offline Pooty

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #289 on: August 07, 2019, 12:19:05 PM »
Taxing 11 "Chaos Maze" - 3 turners, 1 digger, 1 climber

Chaos Maze has been reduced to 3 turners, removing the digger and climber.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Stilt Walkers] Reduced to 2 turners, 1 builder

Nice one. It was this level in particular I was having an issue with. I felt there was something, but I could not pull it off. :thumbsup:

But wait a minute... your two-turner solution saves 57 lemmings. The record at the time of posting is 56. That is a new record!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 12:43:00 PM by Pooty »
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #290 on: August 07, 2019, 08:24:55 PM »
Mayhem 2 "Brenchin's Staircase" - 3 blockers, 2 turners, 3 bombers, 3 bashers, 4 climbers (I simply can't see a way to save ANY skill on this one)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 09:12:30 PM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
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Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #291 on: August 07, 2019, 08:37:07 PM »
Going back to Mayhem 1 "The Five Arches" - I've now found a way to save 1 climber that doesn't rely on crazy timing - RR 99 at the start, and have a walker instead of the climber bomb to stop the digger on the first block; you can then re-use this climber for another of the climber-required tasks. I'm not sure if it will be possible to combine this with my timing-based idea and end up saving 2 climbers - I haven't ruled it out, but I'm also not particularly interested in trying to pull off something that finnicky. Aside from that one climber, it still uses all the skills.

This puts Mayhem 1's confirmed results at 2 bombers, 1 builder, 3 diggers, 2 climbers; with theoretical solutions that might eliminate 1 bomber and another climber.
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Offline LemSteven

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #292 on: August 08, 2019, 02:58:03 AM »
But wait a minute... your two-turner solution saves 57 lemmings. The record at the time of posting is 56. That is a new record!

Good catch!  I realized the same thing late last night, but I had already turned out the light to go to sleep and I had to get up early this morning.  I updated the record in the Max Saved thread.


Here's a no-climber solution:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 03:56:26 AM by LemSteven »

Offline Minim

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #293 on: August 08, 2019, 03:02:10 PM »
Hi there! It's great to see the Challenge boards being revived again. I've updated the OP and added the 3D Lemmings results, except for Taxing 16, because I'm a bit confused by the result on one of the posts.

Taxing 16 "The Arena" - 1 turner, 1 bomber, 1 builder maybe? (I didn't solve this - but the record is lose-2, and I'm pretty sure this level can't be done without the turner and builder, meaning 1 bomber?)

So namida. Is this your confirmed result so far for this level, or have you not solved it at all yet?
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Offline Pooty

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #294 on: August 08, 2019, 06:36:27 PM »
Continuing with Mayhem.

Mayhem 4 "Ski Jump" - 2 turners, 2 builders, 2 bashers, 1 climber, 1 floater
Mayhem 5 "The Prisoner" - 3 bombers, 1 builder, 1 digger, 5 floaters
Mayhem 6 "Family Tree" - 7 turners (attempted a 6-turner solution, was short by just 2 lemmings)
Mayhem 9 "Over the Top" - 1 turner, 1 builder, 1 digger, 2 climbers (floater not needed)

If there's something I've said that doesn't make sense (of if there's something I've not said that should be), let me know. This was a very long post.

Taxing 16 "The Arena" - 1 turner, 1 bomber, 1 builder maybe? (I didn't solve this - but the record is lose-2, and I'm pretty sure this level can't be done without the turner and builder, meaning 1 bomber?)

So namida. Is this your confirmed result so far for this level, or have you not solved it at all yet?

I am able to confirm that The Arena can be completed with 1 turner, 1 bomber and 1 builder.

"The Arena" bomber timing (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 06:50:41 PM by Pooty »
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #295 on: August 08, 2019, 11:02:11 PM »
A few more from Discord:

Mayhem 11 "Across The Network" - 2 turners, 1 builder, 1 basher
Mayhem 14 "Jelly Belly Islands" - 2 turners, 3 builders
Mayhem 17 "Critical Path" - 2 bashers
Mayhem 20 "Final Maze" - 1 turner

Except for Mayhem 13, all these results are Pooty's.
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline Pooty

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #296 on: August 09, 2019, 03:34:05 PM »
I've completed the rest of Mayhem. Here are the results and explanations.

Mayhem 13 "The Catacombs" - 15 turners (see namida's post above)
Mayhem 14 "Jelly Belly Islands" - 2 turners, 3 builders
Mayhem 16 "Fun Fair" - 1 blocker, 5 turners, 4 builders, 1 miner, 1 digger, 6 climbers
Mayhem 19 "Tuther Circus Level" - 1 bomber, 1 builder, 3 bashers, 2 climbers (blocker not needed)
SEGA Master System version
100% on 110/120 levels (92%). Other levels [Lemmings lost]:
Fun 03 [3], 06 [2], 18 [5]   
Taxing 19 [5], 27 [1], 28 [3]
Tricky 15 [5], 17 [2]
Mayhem 19 [7], 26 [10]

Offline LemSteven

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #297 on: August 10, 2019, 01:28:12 AM »

I got this one down to 3 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #298 on: August 10, 2019, 02:13:47 AM »
Taxing 12 "Team Work" improved to 4 builders, 1 basher.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 05:59:27 AM by namida »
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)

Offline namida

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Re: What skills can't you live without?
« Reply #299 on: August 10, 2019, 11:00:19 AM »
Taxing 8 "Rescue Team" reduced to 7 turners + 4 bashers.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Lemmings projects
2D Lemmings: NeoLemmix (engine) | Lemmings Plus Series (level packs) | Doomsday Lemmings (level pack)
3D Lemmings: Loap (engine) | L3DEdit (level / graphics editor) | L3DUtils (replay / etc utility) | Lemmings Plus 3D (level pack)