Lemmings Plus DOS Project (third and final demo now available!)

[namida]

EDIT: Renamed it "Project" rather than "Remake" since it's turning out to be mostly original levels, with a few remakes of Lemmings Plus classics.

Number of levels completed so far, as well as how many are original, repeat, or unique. The difference between "original" and "unique" is that those classed as original have a repeat version of them later on, those classed as unique do not.

Mild: 30 of 30 completed (22 original, 0 repeat, 8 unique)
Wimpy: 30 of 30 completed (21 original, 4 repeat, 5 unique)
Medi: 30 of 30 completed (9 original, 12 repeat, 9 unique)
Danger: 30 of 30 completed (2 original, 19 repeat, 9 unique)
PSYCHO: 30 of 30 completed (0 original, 23 repeat, 7 unique)
Total: 150 of 150 levels completed (54 original, 58 repeat, 38 unique)

Attached file is the official 10 level demo, containing 2 levels from each difficulty rating.
Mild: "Heading On In" and "Up, Down, Round & Round!"
Wimpy: "Life, The Universe & Everything" and "One Step At A Time"
Medi: "The Long Road To Lemming High" and "Die The Death Of The Damned"
Danger: "The Buildo Station" and "Bullet Lemming"
PSYCHO: "Coalburner" and "No Salvation"

Modifications: "Up, Down, Round & Round" has been moved to Wimpy. "Die The Death Of The Damned" has been moved to Danger. "Bullet Lemming" has been moved to PSYCHO and has one fewer builder.

Now attached: A second 10 level demo. It also contains 2 levels from each difficulty.
Mild: "Farewell, My Lemming" and "Across The Ditch"
Wimpy: "Backdraft" and "Get up, up, up!"
Medi: "This Is..." and "Eye of the Lemming"
Danger: "In the life of a Lemming" and "So That's The Plan..."
PSYCHO: "Lightspeed Lemming" and "No Time To Die"

Modifications: "Backdraft" moved to Danger and no longer has a builder, plus numerous backroute fixes (since terrain changes are involved, a modified LVL file is attached). "Eye of the Lemming" now has 10 lemmings instead of 2 (still requires 100%).

Third (and absolute final!) demo now available. Again, two levels from each difficulty.
Mild: "The Graveyard" and "You Just Lost The Game!!!"
Wimpy: "Just For Fun" and "Only One Place To Go!"
Medi: "Bob's Mistake" and "Take A Dive"
Danger: "Circular Wavelength" and "The Hideout"
PSYCHO: "Not gonna work." and "A Perfect Nightmare"

Modifications: None yet.

You can also download all 3 demos in a single Lemmix player. Link: http://rapidshare.com/files/307219411/LPDOSDemo.zip
This player also has the orders changed to reflect reorderings for the final release, and has the updated versions of Bullet Lemming, Eye of the Lemming and Backdraft. It also contains all of ccexplore's updates.

These hints are updated to reflect any fixes or changes made after the releases of the demos.

First Demo
Heading On In - This level is quite straightforward and should not require a hint.
Up, Down, Round & Round! - Take care not to create any fatal drops, and you'll be fine.
Life, The Unverse & Everything - This level is quite straightforward and should not require a hint.
One Step At A Time - As the title suggests, just deal with each obstacle individually as you come to it.
The Long Road To Lemming High - You may need to go outside the playing area in order to create a path (although it is possible without doing so).
Die The Death Of The Damned - You have no spare skills, so you'll have to find a method of crowd control that doesn't use skills. Think of what else you have that can control lemmings to some degree.
The Buildo Station - Set the Release Rate to about 80, and you should have no problem.
Bullet Lemming - At one point, you need to turn the worker around, but you can't do this without running out of builders. Is there a way that you can turn a lemming around with a builder you need to use anyway?
Coalburner - Don't assume terrain is purely for decoration just because it looks like it is.
No Salvation - Place your skills very carefully in order to create a path up the staircase. The other parts of the levels are purely distractions.

Second Demo
Farewell, My Lemming - Block off the left side, and it's easy from there.
Across The Ditch - This level shouldn't need a hint.
Backdraft - The easy part is working out how to turn a climber around, the hard part being how to get the crowd out of this turn-around.
Get up, up, up! - The tight space of this level shouldn't matter much.
This Is... - Most parts of the level are unused.
Eye of the Lemming - Instead of trying to stop the crowd from getting stuck, try to release them from where they get stuck.
In the life of a Lemming - The flag-like structures are most certianly not just for decoration.
So That's The Plan... - Blockbomb your way past the flamethrower, and it's smooth sailing from there.
Lightspeed Lemming - If a basher has two other bashers in front of him, he'll start walking again and overtake both.
No Time To Die - Use different lemmings to make different parts of the path at the same time.

Third Demo
The Graveyard - This level is quite straightforward and should not require a hint.
You Just Lost The Game - There's quite a few ways to approach this one, just choose a path and solve it, they're all pretty simple.
Just For Fun - This level is quite straightforward and should not require a hint.
Only One Place To Go - For the most part, you should try to solve the level backwards.
Bob's Mistake - You must go the wrong way first.
Take A Dive - There is a way to get lower, think carefully about what it may be.
Circular Wavelength - Send two lemmings over the top, and have one more mine down. Once you do this, the rest isn't too hard.
The Hideout - Your worker should come from the right side, but the first thing he should do is save the left.
Not gonna work. - The 20th floater is used on a lemming before it falls off the starting area, but it's not the 20th lemming.
A Perfect Nightmare - You need to do something a bit unordinary to contain the lemmings, as any ordinary trick will fail.

Minimum Skills records for each level
1st Demo
01 - 1 skill (namida)
02 - 17 skills (namida)
03 - 14 skills  (namida)
04 - 14 skills (namida)
05 - 13 skills (namida)
06 - 7 skills (The level is very obviously not beatable with fewer than this)
07 - 24 skills (namida)
08 - 16 skills (ccexplore) [This is based off the old 12-builder version of the level AFAIK]
09 - 23 skills (namida)
10 - 8 skills (namida)

2nd Demo
01 - 6 skills (namida)
02 - 4 skills (namida)
03 - 9 skills (namida) [This is based off the fixed, no-builder version of the level]
04 - 8 skills (namida)
05 - 9 skills (namida)
06 - 5 skills (namida) [This is based off the fixed, 10-lemming version of the level]
07 - 16 skills (namida)
08 - 14 skills (namida)
09 - 32 skills (namida)
10 - 19 skills (geoo)

3rd Demo
01 - 3 skills (namida)
02 - 8 skills (namida)
03 - 4 skills (namida)
04 - 3 skills (namida)
05 - 6 skills (namida)
06 - 8 skills (namida)
07 - 12 skills (namida)
08 - 8 skills (namida)
09 - 41 skills (namida)
10 - 18 skills (namida)


I've also now uploaded a spreadsheet that contains a full level list (with gaps on levels not yet made, of course), as well as:
- Which style each level uses
- Whether the level is original, repeat or unique
- If applicable, where the repeats/earlier versions are
- Maximum possible %
- Minimum skills to complete
- Minimum skills to acheive maximum %
- Whether or not the level is possible in the following challenges: Single skill type, 1 minute, Release Rate 99, one skill per lemming, one lemming performing skills only



Due to 4-attachment-per-post limit, the third demo is attached to a message just below.

[Dullstar]

I have uploaded ccexplore's lemmings DOS exe hack to the file portal, which is basically an upscaled Custom Lemmings.  I don't know exactly how many levels are in the Plus Packs, though...

[namida]

Yeah, I saw that. LP1 has 75 (three ranks of 17 and two of 12), LP2 has 60 (four ranks of 15) and LP3 has 80 (four ranks of 20), for a total of 215 levels. (Some of which, however, would be removed or replaced for reasons mentioned above.)

Third demo is attached to this post due to 4-per-post limitation.

[Dullstar]

Mathematics do a lot, don't they?

Okay, so for the 120 slots in the original game, that leaves 95 slots...

Now if you based it on ONML, you'd have 2 games of 100 and 15 that would be removed.

Are there at least 15 candidates for removal?  It would make ONML add up right, and the adlib.dat files for OhNo! and Original Lemmings may be swappable.

[namida]

The following levels will require either removal, replacement, or a large degree of modification (minor modification isn't included in this list):

LP1 (22 levels total)
Funny
2) In The Long Walk - Beach graphics set
Sega Six - Custom graphics set
11) LEMMING INSANITY! - Special graphics
16) The Commander Keen Level - Special graphics

Strange
5) Lemmdows 2000 Professional - Special graphics, vertical scrolling
7) Let's Play Triple Triad - Special graphics, vertical scrolling
12) The Weapon Room - Beach graphic set
15) We All Fall Up - Upside down

Weird
3) Lemmings In The War - Custom graphic set
9) A Holiday In Hell - Beach graphic set
12) The Writing On The Wall - Special graphics
13) Sega Seven - Custom graphic set
15) Sega Eight - Custom graphic set
16) Poor Wee Creatures War Remix - Custom graphic set

Wacky
1) 9R33N L3MM1N95 - Special graphics
12) We All Fall Up XP - Upside down

Insane
1) Get in your car, and drive up the wall - Special graphics
2) Are You Keen? - Special graphics
3) Lemmdows 2000 Server - Special graphics, vertical scrolling
4) Card Time - Special graphics, vertical scrolling
This Is Not A Test - Special graphics
9) Yeah Lemma! - Special graphics

LP2 (13 levels total)
Light
15) Indirect Route - Vertical scrolling

Neutral
5) Confusion - Vertical scrolling
10) Just Go Up - Custom graphic set

Dark
2) Quick Clicks - Release rate is above 99
4) Just Get Your Lemmings There! - Beach graphic set
10) Goin' For It - Custom graphic set
11) The Ghost Floor - Cheapo mechanics
13) Oblivion - Cheapo-exclusive terrain pieces are vital to the design
15) Temple of Oblivion - Cheapo-exclusive terrain pieces are vital to the design

Evil
A Miner Problem - Cheapo mechanics
9) Castle of Oblivion - Cheapo-exclusive terrain pieces are vital to the design
11) Race of Insanity - Custom graphic set
13) Quick Clicks II - Release rate above 99

LP3 (13 levels total)
Daigoro
Forever Seven - Cheapo mechanics (although they're not essential, but the lack of them would be a huge annoyance in DOS)
15) Lane of Lament - Cheapo-exclusive terrain pieces are vital to the design

Kozuka
5) Sunrise - Special graphics
7) Lane of Lament - Cheapo-exclusive terrain pieces are vital to the design

Wakizashi
Sunrise II - Special graphics
9) Lane of Lament - Cheapo-exclusive terrain pieces are vital to the design
19) Copyright Infringement Part 1 - Possibly too wide

Zanmato
1) Lane of Lament - Cheapo-exclusive terrain pieces are vital to the design
4) Copyright Infringement Part 2 - Possibly too wide
6) Sunset - Special graphics
Impulse of Light - Cheapo mechanics
9) The Way Across - Cheapo mechanics
11) Down The Middle We Go! - Vertical scrolling

That's a total of 38. However, some of them (Oblivion is the first one to come to mind) could be reconstructed in DOS using alternative but similarly-functioning designs, or possibly even different graphic sets that do have the required pieces. Should this be done by combining the packs, the Lane of Laments would be likely candidates for removal due to the terrain similarity (and in one of them, solution similarity) to Oblivion.

[Dullstar]

ONML should do the trick then for a base...

Although it would be interesting to see the return of Lemmdows 2000 professional by doing a VGASPEC...  but that probably wouldn't work right.  Besides, it would ahve to be completely redone.

[namida]

While that level itself can't be remade, a similar styled level could.

In reality, exact copies would be too much effort. Instead, I'm redoing them so that the basic theme of the level is the same, the general look is the same, and where possible any major tricks are still required, but the level itself may have some differences.

For example, compare the attached image of the Cheapo version of "To The End!" to a DOS remake I did just now. In both versions, you're required to save 30 of 30, you have 6 minutes, release rate is 1, and you're given 20 of every skill except builders (of which you have none).

(Note that the one-way wall is still one-way in the Cheapo version, this just doesn't show up in the editor. In fact, in Cheapo, it has BOTH direction one way walls, meaning the only way to destroy it is bombers or diggers. Obviously, two overlapping one way objects won't work in the DOS version. However, the exact placement of the steel areas, combined with lack of builders, prevents you from bashing or mining through it in the DOS version anyway.)

[Dullstar]

You did a pretty good job there, though the stairs could be improved in DOS, quite possibly easily.

[namida]

Probably, but the solution remains exactly the same, so there's no real need to be picky. (Actually, there is one new element to the solution, albeit a very minor one, which wasn't intentional but I think I'll keep anyway.)

[Proxima]

So, if you're removing 48 levels from 215, that leaves 167... I would suggest you also remove some of the less interesting levels to leave a nice round 120. For instance, doesn't one of the LPs begin with skill training levels that could simply be snipped out?

(Also, does DOS Lemmings support the horizontally flipped trapdoors available in Cheapo?)

[Dullstar]

That can also work.  It is also possible to make fresh levels.

[namida]

Yeah. I would get rid of the annoying levels (overly focused on building, etc), the training levels, and those which are incompatible (except Oblivion, as I definately want to at least try to get it working in DOS, it's one of my best tricks ever, however, most likely Temple of Oblivion, Castle of Oblivion and Dungeon of Oblivion would be left out as they just re-use the same trick while throwing in normal level surroundings).

And no, DOS doesn't support such doors, although it's not hard to emulate. (Place terrain exactly where they come out that'd turn them around and cover it with a steel area, of course, that does leave potential for builder glitches, but I don't think many LP levels use the flipped entrances anyway)

[Proxima]

Hmm. One level that does use reversed trapdoors -- and where that fix wouldn't be enough -- is Interlocked in LP3, a level that I particularly hope can be kept as it's one of a few where I managed to save 100% even though the document that comes with LP3 says it's impossible 

[namida]

Why wouldn't it be enough? At worst, wouldn't the positions just have to be modified slightly to accomodate for it?

[ccexplore]

The last one is the special graphics levels. The original lemmings, for music reasons, would most likely crash with more than 4 of these.

I'm not 100% sure that's the case.  I think you might just get no music, although I suppose that's only a tiny bit more desirable than crashing.

There's also still the fact that the musics totally wouldn't suit - but maybe cc or someone else knows how to insert custom music? (All the LP1 special graphics levels use the same unique music as each other, while LP3 ones just use the normal music, if that's any help.)

I do have the technical knowledge to do so, although I don't know how successful I will be at converting the MIDI custom music into something of acceptable quality in the more restrictive realm of Adlib music of DOS Lemmings.  Do you have an upload of the MIDI file somewhere?  Regardless, it'll take a bit of work and I'm not sure I really have the time and will to do all that.

Anyway, if we're already thinking of customizing parts of DOS Lemmings (eg. custom music), I might be able to do further customizations into total number of levels supported by the game, or possibly even a way to create reverse trapdoors (the latter is probably a bit of wishful thinking, but theoretically possible).  Changing the total number of levels supported by the game might actually be the easiest of all the customizations.

[namida]

Hm... that's not the hugest issue though. A hack to simply make it play normal music on these levels would be sufficient.

However, one thing I do want to ask you, since you're the expert on mechanics: If you know the trick I'm talking about, do you know if it's possible to make the Oblivion trick work in DOS/Lemmix?

(Basically, it requires being able to create a repeated pattern where lemmings that block inside it will be able to turn around lemmings coming from the left, but no matter where on it they block, lemmings coming from the right will not be blocked)

Even better if it can be done in the Brick style, as that's the one the original Oblivion level uses.

[namida]

Another pair to compare! Return of the T!

In both cases, save 25 of 25, Release Rate 1, skills: 2 climbers, 1 floater, 0 bombers, 0 blockers, 3 builders, 3 bashers, 1 miner, 1 digger.
However, the time limit is different between versions, as the DOS version is possible to solve much quicker. The limit is 4 minutes in the original Cheapo version, and 3 minutes in the DOS version.

As with "To The End", the one way walls ARE still one-way in Cheapo, they just don't show up as such on the screenshot.

Now I just have to do "Lemmerixo", then I can release a teaser pack featuring each of the ultimate levels. Then I can work on converting the entire set, where possible...

The main difficulty with that being, unlike RotT and TTE, which rely on multitasking and clever use of skills, Lemmerixo is based on a lot of well-placed and pre-measured manouvers, which is a lot harder to do in LemEdit than in Cheapo (where you have sketches).

[namida]

Another thing I've thought about is a level to take the place of "Number _ Sturges Road" and "Lane of Lament" (which were basically the LP1 and LP3 equivalents of "We All Fall Down", a level that appears in every difficult setting getting harder each time). I've attached a pic of the level I've decided to use. Basically, I went for one that rather than being a matter of simply having more and more lemmings each time (like We All Fall Down does), it instead simply pushes you to find better and better solutions to the same problem (like Lane of Lament does, kind of). However, unlike Lane of Lament, it also doesn't use an entirely new approach each time, instead, you just have to find a more effective solution. You can use the hardest one's solution on any of them, but there are much easier ways to go about the earlier ones.

The skillset and requirements (listed in order from lowest to highest difficulty):

Lemmings: 40, 30, 20, 10
Save: 20 (50%), 18 (60%), 14 (70%), 9 (90%)
Skills: 8 of all, 6 of all, 4 of all, 2 of all
RR: 99 in all
Time Limit: 4mins, 3mins, 2mins, 1min

For those who are interested, only the very hardest one is impossible to save 100% on.

Since you can't tell just by looking: The trap fires to the left, not to the right. It gets the lemming as soon as they step up onto 2nd from top stair.

And just for the record: One set of stairs is actually designed to be possible to climb from both sides without any terrain destruction. The other two where this is relevant are intentionally impossible to do so on.

[ccexplore]

A hack to simply make it play normal music on these levels would be sufficient.

That would be much easier.  Actually, if we based it on ONML (which has no special graphics music), it would be equivalent to hacking it to support more than 100 levels, which I think should be relatively easy.

However, one thing I do want to ask you, since you're the expert on mechanics: If you know the trick I'm talking about, do you know if it's possible to make the Oblivion trick work in DOS/Lemmix?

I think I've come up with a setup that will work.  Unfortunately, the only graphics set I've found suitable for creating it is the Pink Style. And actually, even without worrying about the mechanics, the Brick style in DOS ONML turns out to lack the vertical version of the staircase that your Cheapo level uses, so it wouldn't have been possible anyway I think to even replicate just the graphics.  Another possibility is to make this a special graphics level--create the non-staircase terrain in LemEdit/Lemmix, take a screenshot, and then edit the screenshot in Paint to put in the staircases.  I can then use various programs to turn the screenshot into a VGASPEC.

Attached are two test levels.  OBL1.lvl illustrates the general setup, but it is fairly inefficient in terms of terrain usage:  each staircase takes 15 terrain pieces.  Because blockers cannot overlap in DOS Lemmings, the total amount of horizontal space taken up by the 18 blockers would require 28-30 staircases to cover, which exceeds the limit of 399 terrain pieces in DOS Lemmings.  OBL2.lvl is a second setup that is more efficient in terms of terrain piece usage.  The test level uses up 308 terrain pieces, leaving you with 91 to construct the rest of the level, which hopefully should be more than enough.

Great care must be taken in how the staircases are positioned.  Note that in both test levels, the leftmost staircase, its upper-leftmost pixel is at (300, 60).  Notice that both coordinates are multiples of 4.  You may move the terrain around, but you must take care to keep the position of that pixel at multiples of 4 for both x and y, and you should keep the spacing/relative positioning of everything else (all the other staircases, plus the ground level) exactly as given.

Because of the huge number of terrain pieces involved, if you're not going the VGASPEC route, it is highly recommended that you use Lemmix to create/edit this level, since Lemmix gives you the means to move the entire terrain setup as one unit rather than 308 separate terrain pieces.

Based on my understanding of the game mechanics, the setup should work as desired.  A blocker standing on a terrain pixel whose y is a multiple of 4, his "blocker field" will only extend downward to 4 pixels (including the one he' standing on).  So the step height of 4 pixels is just enough to cause the lemming below the step to not be affected by the blocker.  The horizontal multiple-of-4 alignment ensures that the various boundaries of the blocker field all line up with the steps to achieve the desired effect.  Anyway, if you do find some serious problems with the given setup, let me know and I'll try to find a way around it.  (This is where Lemmix again can be helpful, since you can just provide a replay to illustrate the problem instead of having to explain it in words.)

[ccexplore]

However, one thing I do want to ask you, since you're the expert on mechanics: If you know the trick I'm talking about, do you know if it's possible to make the Oblivion trick work in DOS/Lemmix?

I think I've come up with a setup that will work.  Unfortunately, the only graphics set I've found suitable for creating it is the Pink Style.

I spoke too soon.  It is possible to create the setup using the Brick Style also, even making the staircases white, but it's less efficient.  28 staircases took 355 terrain pieces to make, leaving you only 44 for the rest of the level, though that might well be enough, given the relative simplicity of the level.

If the staircases don't need to be white, I think by using the longest terrain piece (red brick wall) as the "body" for them, the staircases can be done using the same amount as in the Pink Style (a little more than 300 pieces for 30 staircases).  It might also be okay to use 7-step staircases rather than the 8 I have in my setup, which should reduce the amount of terrain pieces by about 40.

[Note: if you open the attach level in Lemmix, use the Brick Style from "Custom Lemmings" rather than ONML.  It's just a matter of numbering (Brick is Style 5 in Custom Lemmings but 0 in ONML, and the attached level file uses number 5).]

[namida]

NICE.

I've developed a full-blown Oblivion remake out of it, which works very well. Thanks heaps for that.


I've also come up with a list of the levels that, mechanics and graphics permitting, I really want to include in the port. Some are because they're good levels, some are just really fun or use a clever trick. Those levels are:

*EDIT: Moved this list into the first post.*

I guess once those are done, I'll look at what other levels can be added in to fill the remaining space.

[Dullstar]

You know, for whatever reason I now feel like making a lemmings fangame...  It'll be seperate from the Epic Lemmings Fangame, though, but we could include levels from my, uh, personal fangame in the Epic Fangame.

Can any really awesome levels be included in the [epic] fangame, by the way?  After all, Epic Lemmings Fangame is planned so that the levels will not be made by any one person, but instead anyone who is willing to contribute.

[Proxima]

What is this Epic Fangame you mention and could some of my Cheapo levels also be included in it?

[Dullstar]

Hmmm...  I guess it's been ignored for some time now, hasn't it?  Maybe I should bump it.

[namida]

Proxima, I finally managed to acheive the 100% on Lemmerixo that you mentioned, and it feels more like a backroute than anything else to me. It cuts out an entire part of the level that was intended to be vital to the solution. Most likely, the remake would remove this route rather than require it.

[Proxima]

Well, what was your 100% solution? It might not be the same as mine.

Here's mine:

First lemming digs on the edge of the first platform. Make a blocker behind him. After a while, digger builds one brick then resumes digging (so fall is survivable). Build across gap when digger is low enough to not hit head. Climb up, immediately dig, mine when level with top of bridge. Build across next gap, bash pillar, build to reach highest steel block. Build so that tip of first brick just touches wall; after two bricks, mine. Build over next gap; while building, mine to release blocker and crowd. Leader of crowd climbs, digs before exit, builds to turn round, mines down to bring crowd up. Should be plenty of time for both climbers to exit (I had 2mins to spare).

[namida]

It's mostly similar.

However, I didn't climb, dig, mine, I just mined straight from the bridges (and dug at the edges if nessecary). I also didn't stop mid-dig near the start, I simply after solving the level, I had the lemming come back, dig after climbing up there, then bash to free the blocker (I got through the middle pillar with a miner).

[namida]

After some more thinking, I decided that it would be a lot simpler to move Lemmerixo down a difficulty level (or simply to an early place in the final difficulty level) and require 100%... partially because I can't even remember most of the original solution, partially because I do remember it being very hard to pull off and I'd rather focus on levels being hard to work out.

So, here's the images. The only difference in stats is that you're now required to save 100% (50 lemmings) instead of 98% (49 lemmings), for those of you who know the original. For those who don't:

Lemmings: 50
Save: 100% (50 lemmings) - original version required 98% (49 lemmings)
Time: 8 minutes
Release Rate: 1
Skills: 3 climbers, 0 floaters, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 12 builders, 1 basher, 4 miners, 5 diggers

Unlike the others, you don't have to imagine any one-way walls, as this level is completely one-way-wall-free.

[namida]

And with that done, here's a preview!

It contains the ultimate level of each Lemmings Plus (so, Return of the T, Lemmerixo, and To The End!), plus Oblivion, and the hardest version previously mentioned new level "No Salvation".

99% of the credit for remaking "Oblivion" goes to ccexplore, not me.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[namida]

I've just also done The Long Road To Lemming High (sadly, due to DOS limitations, the top half is very different from the Cheapo version, but the bottom part - which is where the main trick takes place - remains the same, the top was all filler so I just replaced it with new filler) and The Buildo Station (which is more or less the same as before).

[ccexplore]

Okay, I found two backroutes in your remake of Oblivion that aren't present in the Cheapo original.  Replays attached.  Description below:

1) The first backroute involves using one builder to turn the last lemming out around and make him block that way.  Then the first lemming out will block just before the trap, and the last lemming that approaches that blocker will dig, bash (which frees the blocker), and then build to the exit once he has bash all the way to the right edge of the platform.

This fails in the original because the "staircase section" is shorter (so the crowd takes a shorter time meandering through it while you are still bashing), and the distance the basher needs to bash in the original is a lot longer, so the crowd would overtake you and fall to their death before the builder finishes.

I don't know if there are enough terrain pieces to lengthen the platform, but a simple alternative would be to add some left one-way walls so that you cannot bash all the way to the right edge of the platform.

2) The second backroute involves having a lemming dig at where the trap trigger is, until it is completely bypassed, and also until the digger's pit is deep enough to trap lemmings from escaping left of it.  Have the digger build to stop digging.  Have one lemming block at the top of that triangle sloping piece of terrain, letting one lemming go past to build to the exit.  Free the blocker with a basher from the crowd.

In the Cheapo original, this doesn't work because there is a pillar hanging from the ceiling at the middle of the gap where you build to the exit, preventing you from getting to the exit using just one builder starting from top of the platform (the builder would bump his head on the pillar and stop building).  You would instead need to first dig down first at the edge of the platform, to keep yourself from bumping your head when you build.

The solution here is clearly to include the same pillar in the remake.  Lemmix shows you've only used up 370 terrain pieces so far, there should be enough left for you to add the pillar in.

[namida]

Ah, now I remember why I put that pillar there. I couldn't remember before, hence I didn't include it in the remake.

[Dullstar]

Sometimes it can be a good idea to include decorative terrain anyways.

[namida]

Yeah, but Oblivion has always been a minimalistic level. On the other hand, levels like To The End have some added.

[namida]

Dialing 309 2000 has been done, but with an entirely new design and name (since the old one is kind of lame). It's now a much more hellish-looking level, with no Alert Taxis references. xD Additionally, it now requires 100% (since acheiving that is actually very easy with good timing).

[Minim]

Can we actually see this level soon? I want to have a look.

[namida]

"Die the Death of the Damned"
Save 20 of 20 (100%)
Release rate 99
Time limit 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 0 floaters, 0 bombers, 0 blockers, 6 builders, 2 bashers, 0 miners, 1 digger

[Minim]

In a matter of seconds I found your solution! Not as difficult as it actually is.

Make the first lemming a climber. When he's halfway through the first block let him dig and then bash under the fire. Build over each gap to the exit. Release the other lemmings by bashing through the wall on the right.

[namida]

It's not that hard, the main problem is running out of time if you wait too long to release the lemmings.

[Dullstar]

As long as it's not a "control the release rate exactly" level, the timing should be alright.

[namida]

The default Release Rate is 99, so there's no worries about that.

[Minim]

Sometime soon, will you post these levels up as a lemmings level pack so that we can download them off from the Lemmings File archive if that's possible?

[namida]

I already released a preview on the last page, containing "Return of the T", "Oblivion", "Lemmerixo", "To The End!" and "No Salvation" (the hardest version of it).

[Minim]

OK, that's only 5 levels. Don't forget that some users have Custom lemmings, so you need 5 more (If you can do that) .

[namida]

Why so? You just play the first five, then quit.

I might release a 10-level preview once I've done a few more levels. However, at the moment, I've only done 10 (9 if you don't count originals that weren't in the Cheapo packs) levels, excluding harder/easier repeats.

[Dullstar]

Or open LemEdit and insert the blank generic levels!

[Minim]

Don't be silly! He hasn't even finished yet.

[Dullstar]

I meant the person using CustLemm.

[Minim]

Yes, I know, and that is what namida prefers to use (Sorry you didn't realise that namida uses Custom Lemmings).

[namida]

I don't use CustLemm. I use LemEdit for making the levels, and the Lemmix clones (with LookForLVLFiles turned on) for testing. If there's any borderline glitchy mechanics, only then I test them in DOS Lemmings (original, not CustLemm) to double check that they work there.

[namida]

Here's another new level. Play on Lemmix for best results.

It's not that hard, but it does involve a trick that may, at first, be quite hard to spot.

I've also added a screenshot, although to be completely fair, the screenshot doesn't really show why the trick is needed.

If you do it the obvious way, you'll only save 98%.

50 Lemmings
Save 50 (100%)
1 minute
1 climber, 1 floater, 1 builder

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Minim]

I don't think it's a "trick" in the way of a glitch but I think I've got the right solution. Highlight the hidden text below to see it.

Make the first lemming a climber and a floater. Let him build to the exit and increase the rate to 99.

[namida]

Even if you do that, and put the release rate up to 99 right away (rather than waiting), you save 98%. There's a bit more to it than that.

Anyway, here's another challenge for you all.
The attached level is an easier version of "To The End!" (well, it's identical, except you have builders). Try to play it fewest-skills style! My record is 14 skills.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Dullstar]

I think the way after seeing those stats.  Still QUITE obvious.  My guess is that you should go with minimac94 but wait a little to turn up the rate (or turn it up earlier if it's a time issue)

[namida]

As I said: If you put the release rate up to 99 right at the start (before any lemmings appear), and use the first lemming to do the work, you'll end up saving 98% - this is due to time limit issues, not due to lemmings dying.

[namida]

To be honest, I'm having a lot more fun making entirely new levels at the moment. >_> So this will probably be a mixture of remakes of the good ones, and totally new levels.

On that note, I've just made another easy/hard version pair, with a twist: both versions are hard as hell, but in different ways. One of them is hard to work out but pretty easy to do once you've worked it out, the other is painfully obvious but very hard to pull off. I'm still trying to work out which version is the harder of the two. The harder to do one is just that - a pain to pull off. The hard to work out one though, is (in my opinion) a very clever challenge, and I'd like to hear whether anyone has any success at beating it.

I attached both versions as LVL files, plus an image.

Stats:

Not gonna work. (the hard-to-work-out one)
40 Lemmings
40 to be saved (100%)
RR 50
Time limit 6 minutes
20 climbers, 20 floaters, 20 builders

My solution uses every floater and every builder, although only one climber. I'm almost positive you can't do it with any less of either.

The Deadly Climb (the hard-to-do one)
5 Lemmings
2 to be saved (40%)
RR 50
Time limit 2 minutes
5 climbers, 5 floaters

It's the usual way of bypassing a trap, except you have a lot less at your disposal to acheive it with.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Minim]

I can't wait to see the picture for "Not gonna work"!

I didn't realise they were the same template.

I wonder why the deadly climb is hard. Maybe there's an invisible exit on the left of the lower platform.

[Pooty]

I wonder why the deadly climb is hard. Maybe there's an invisible exit on the left of the lower platform.

That lizard is going to eat all your lemmings unless you come up with a crafty plan. And just raising the release rate to 99 isn't going to work.

[Dullstar]

How would one get past it anyways?

[Pooty]

With cunning.

Time your floaters in a way that groups them all together. The lizard will then only have time to eat three.

I have not been very successful with "Not gonna work.", however.

[ccexplore]

I'm still trying to work out which version is the harder of the two. The harder to do one is just that - a pain to pull off. The hard to work out one though, is (in my opinion) a very clever challenge, and I'd like to hear whether anyone has any success at beating it.

I'd definitely say the "hard to work one" is the harder of the two.  The Deadly Climb may be somewhat of a pain to pull off in CustLemm, but definitely not so in Lemmix with the replay feature.  And you don't really need to just try randomly either with the Deadly Climb--once you "get it" for two consecutive lemmings, you have the template for getting it right for the rest.

To me, it's a good sign that a level takes effort to work out whenever I feel the need to spend time making sketchings in Paint, and I did that for Not Gonna Work.  Another sign is that I forgot about certain things after working through one part of the solution, forcing me to think again to handle what I forgot about.

[ccexplore]

Here's another new level. Play on Lemmix for best results.

Since it's a time limit thing, the level is ruined if the player plays it on CustLemm, or worse, CustLemm in High Performance mode (where you gain even more extra time from the slow fade out).

I think I might have an idea for making the concept work without relying on the specifics of how much time the game gives you.  I'll PM you.

[edit: actually it's going to be a little trickier than I originally thought to get around the time issue, the level would need to be remade entirely.  I'll PM you anyway......]

[Fernito]

Haven't succeeded with "Not gonna work"

[ccexplore]

It probably helps a little if you do "Not Gonna Work" in CustLemm or using Lemmix's "Custom Lemmings" style, to get the slightly higher safe fall distance (66 vs 63).  While I believe (but haven't verified) that the level is still solvable with the lower fall distance, there are enough fall distances in the solution relatively close to the maximum that, if you use the higher one afforded by CustLemm, you at least won't need to be as precise in where you start building etc. (or maybe have more builders to spare, say)

[Clam]

I've ignored this until now, and I'm not sure why. There are some very nice levels in here.


A few comments:

Return of the T - the bump on top of the central block of terrain doesn't look nice, and doesn't appear to be necessary.

No Salvation - The solution here (the one I found, at least) is horrible to execute because of the way blocker fields line up with the DOS grid. However, after working through this I was able to save 100% - in spite of your claim that it's impossible on this version.

Not gonna work - The lizard hides a part of the terrain that is quite important to the solution. Also it would be nice to have more sloping terrain in front of the exit so you don't have to click in exactly the right spot to turn the lemming around.

[ccexplore]

No Salvation - The solution here (the one I found, at least) is horrible to execute because of the way blocker fields line up with the DOS grid. However, after working through this I was able to save 100% - in spite of your claim that it's impossible on this version.

Haven't looked at the level (or even the Cheapo version thereof, if it's a remake) and too lazy to search the thread, but if this is a remake of a Cheapo level, perhaps your 100% solution is one that only works in DOS?  Or maybe once again namida accidentally omitted something from the level that was needed for backroute elimination, like the overhead pillar in Oblivion for example.

[namida]

No Salvation is original, not a remake. I just couldn't find a 100% solution myself, so I'd be pretty interested to see a replay. The intended solution doesn't require a blocker (although using one does help - but the grid alignment doesn't matter in this case, as it's only to help position a bomber).

I use Lemmix (original or ohno, whichever is applicable) with LookForLVLFiles to test, rather than the editor or CustLemm, so Not Gonna Work is definately possible with the original fall distance.

Clam: The bump in RotT was nessecary in the cheapo original, it simply stayed in the DOS port.

cc: Here's the level file for No Salvation.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Clam]

Here's my 100% replay for No Salvation.

[namida]

Nice. That's similar enough to my intended solution, so I'll leave it in there, though.

In case you were wondering, here's my intended solution:

[Clam]

This solution can be modified quite easily to achieve 100%. Keep everything the same up to the second digger, then try something different.

[namida]

I just came up with an AWESOME level. But I'm almost certian there's going to be a backroute or two. So, try it and see if you can find any (or if you can solve the level with the intended solution).

The intended solution uses every skill (although it can be done without the floater), and can save anywhere from 92% to 96% depending on your timing.

EDIT: Okay, I'm *finally* out of backroutes that I can find. Let me know if you find any.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[ccexplore]

EDIT: Okay, I'm *finally* out of backroutes that I can find. Let me know if you find any.

This may be a backroute.  That said, for it to work it does require some very precise placement of the bomber and the final builder (you're more likely to fail than succeed).

[I attach 2 replays, depending on whether you play the level with DOS Lemmings mechanics or CustLemm mechanics.]

[namida]

That is indeed a backroute. >_>
But if it requires that level of precision, it's probably not important enough to urgently fix. I'll fix it in the final release, of course.

[Clam]

The fall from the top of the stairs at the start looks like one big drop. It's not easy to see at a glance that the lemmings can actually survive that.

However, after I figured that out it it didn't take me long to find a 100% solution (attached).

[namida]

...Yeah, but that uses a glitch.

[namida]

"Die The Death Of The Damned" has been modified. The release rate is now 50 instead of 99, and you no longer have the climber or digger.  Also, you only have one basher now, not two.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Clam]

  Very nice.

Although the fire pit isn't necessary any more. It still works as a decoration, I guess.

...Yeah, but that uses a glitch.

And...? It works, right?

[namida]

Yes, as well as being a nice obstacle in the easier version of the level.

Anyway: I'm not really too worried about backroutes that use things that are definately glitches. To give an example: A backroute that uses that miner trick, or involves sliding the lemmings, I'm not going to bother too much about since there's no way that's anything but a glitch. On the other hand, a backroute done by direct drop, or a blocker turning a basher around, these could very well be intended mechanics and thus I'd be more inclined to fix them. And of course, completely traditional-style solutions that simply aren't intended (like cc's) are highest priority of all.

[namida]

The level list has been moved to the first page.

[Dullstar]

Wasn't "The T Level" in the original Lemmings Plus?  I remember playing it...  not the "Return of the T" though.

[namida]

"The T Level" was a level in the original Lemmings Plus, but the skillset was different to the one given in this project's version. "Return of the T" was indeed in the original, in the Insane difficulty rank, and is almost identical to the remake in this project (the only major difference is the time limit).

Anyway, in other news, I think I've finally eliminated EVERY non-glitch backroute in "The Framework". Here's the hopefully final version of the level.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[namida]

Haha. I just realised how the name "Coalburner" (Psycho 9) makes it sound like a huge bomber-timing level. xD Maybe I should think of another name for that one...

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[namida]

Official demo is now available... see the first post.

[ccexplore]

Mild: 4 levels completed
Wimpy: 6 levels completed
Medi: 7 levels completed
Danger: 7 levels completed
PSYCHO: 11 levels completed

There isn't an immediately obvious ordering between "Mild" and "Wimpy"; they practically mean the same thing.  I do like the sound of "Wimpy" though, maybe "Mild" should be renamed to "Wimpy", and "Wimpy" to something else?

[namida]

Knowing me, I'll probably change the names a hundred times before release, so it doesn't matter too much anyway.

[namida]

Here's another challenge for you's...

My best for minimum skills on this level was 16. I'd tried several VERY different solutions (using various methods - old fashioned methods, bombing the one way wall, sliding glitch, steel glitches)... and yet, every solution I tried seemed to have the same minimum of 16 skills and cannot be improved beyond this point. Finally, I managed to find a 15 skill solution. My challenge is to anyone else: Match, or even beat, that!

Another one is on the harder version of this level (it's in the demo on the first page, level 8 of it). The level gives you 18 skills, and the solution requires all 18. Can you find a way to beat it with only 17? (The timing is VERY tight on this one, you'll have one second left on the clock when the last lemming exits.)

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Fleech]

Nice level. I've just matched your 15 skills for the first challenge. I'll give the second one a go later.

Replay attached.

[Fleech]

The second challenge was quite a bit harder but I've matched your 17.

I had 4 seconds left on the clock and could have had more left if I'd placed a builder better at the start, so I'd be interested to know what your solution was.

[ccexplore]

Finally, I managed to find a 15 skill solution. My challenge is to anyone else: Match, or even beat, that!

How about 13 skills?  See attached (the replay uses CustLemm mechanics but can be done with DOS Lemmings too, just open the level in the editor with the right style to use the replay).

I haven' tried the harder version of the level yet.

[ccexplore]

Another one is on the harder version of this level (it's in the demo on the first page, level 8 of it). The level gives you 18 skills, and the solution requires all 18. Can you find a way to beat it with only 17? (The timing is VERY tight on this one, you'll have one second left on the clock when the last lemming exits.)

I got it with 16 skills, and the last lemming exits with the clock reading 0:07 (but pretty close to turning 0:06).  I will say though that the skills and time limit are indeed tight enough to make it somewhat challenging to work out the 16-skills solution in the first place.

(Once again, attached replay uses CustLemm mechanics but does not depend on it.)

[ccexplore]

Here's another 16-skill solution for "Bullet Lemming", still saving only 98%, but in under 3 minutes (ie. more than 1 minute left on the clock when the last lemming exits).

[edit:  apparently the style was set to "DOS Original Lemmings" when I recorded the replay, so use that for playback]

[namida]

Pretty neat. So the glitch record is 16, while the non-glitch record still stands at 17 (and probably isn't going to be possible to improve).

Hm... I wonder if I should get rid of the last builder and change it to a PSYCHO level?

EDIT: And on the subject of difficulty rank changes... anyone else feel "Die The Death Of The Damned" is just a tad too hard for Medi now and would be better off in Danger (or possibly even early PSYCHO, but I think that might be a bit too far).

EDIT again: I've decided to indeed move Bullet Lemming to late Psycho, and Die The Death Of The Damned to late Danger.

[ccexplore]

Anyway, in other news, I think I've finally eliminated EVERY non-glitch backroute in "The Framework". Here's the hopefully final version of the level.

Sorry I haven't got back to this earlier.  Unfortunately, your current version has a rather glaring backroute that somehow I didn't report in earlier versions (I didn't keep the earlier versions, so I don't know/remember what changed to enable this).  Whether you call it "glitch" or not, it's too easy a backroute, you can't possibly leave it in.

Attached replay recorded with CustLemm mechanics.

[namida]

Not a glitch at all. But very easily fixed, simply required moving the staircase one pixel higher.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[ccexplore]

If you look at my replay, notice all those extra skills left, which can be used to make the backroute work even after you move the staircase up.  (attached, "backroute 1")

I also reviewed my earlier backroute involving exploding the ceiling for the lower entrance and then build out from the hole.  It turns out I didn't picked a good place to explode in my earlier backroute.  As you can see in attached "backroute 2", the better place to make the hole is just left of the steel block, because then you can use the left edge of the steel block as an extra "step" to help you go up.

And yes, I also tried a variation where I moved the rope trap so its trigger area is not on the stairs.  But the trigger area isn't wide enough to fully affect the area between the steel and the staircase, so it's still possible to use a builder to build over the steel and trigger area but still before the staircase, explode there, and then use the remaining 1 builder to build out (a bit more tricky since it's "luck" whether the lemming you select "blind" from the crowd builds the correct direction, but possible).  I think you can kill this for good if you widen the steel so that it, together with the rope trap's trigger area, prevents you from blowing a hole until you're up the stairs, where you become too high to break through the platform.

[namida]

The rope trap being on the stairs is in order to kill a different backroute that I found myself, so moving it isn't an option...

I'm really starting to get fed up with this level. >_> I'll fix it another time. On top of your two, I also just found another (albeit minor) one myself. >_> My new one, and your first one, will have to wait... but your second one is easy enough to fix for once and for all with no terrain changes: Remove the floater.

...or maybe not, I just thought of a way you could get it working without the floater. But the floater can go anyway, because with how badly this level's been plagued with backroutes, it's bound to cause one sooner or later anyway, and it's not essential to the intended solution, just helpful.

In the meantime, I have now made this pack's obligatory extremely annoying bomber-timing level!

[namida]

Also, note to self: Stop making levels that use faller (or floater) bombers. xD

However... how well do you think this level serves as an introduction to the idea? (It'd be the first level in LPDOS that uses the trick, and with a bit of experimentation the player should realise that's the best way to beat this one)

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Clam]

I presume this level is meant to use the "ABCBA" entrance order? Because it doesn't appear to be possible with the broken Custlemm order. You might want to put a fourth trapdoor over the second one just to be sure.

[namida]

Yeah, that's a good idea. And yes, it is. All of these levels are meant to use the Original DOS mechanics.

[Clam]

As for whether it's a good introduction to the concept, I think "What Did You Expect?" would serve this purpose better, since it's obvious that this is what you have to do. In "Shooting Star", it's not immediately apparent that you have to do this.

Another thing - the second bomber can land on the little sloping ledge at the bottom of the wall, and then explode and still release the trapped lemmings. I don't know whether you wanted this to happen, or even if you know about it, but you should be aware of it.

[namida]

I'm well aware of it, and it doesn't make much difference IMO. The first one still needs to be faller-bombed, and doing so is the more obvious way to do the second one.

As for "What Did You Expect?", I think the fact that it requires three perfectly placed fall-bombers as well as having a tight time limit makes it a bit too hard for an introduction level. Besides, its easier version (which only requires 25%, gives you 50 bombers instead of 3, and you can block them) is in the same difficulty rank (Medi) as Shooting Star, which I thought was a good point to introduce the trick.

[ccexplore]

I'm really starting to get fed up with this level. >_>

I'll give you credit for hiding whatever the intended solution is so well, I don't think I'll be able to tell whether it's intended or not even when I do manage to find it.

Here's a solution that at least doesn't look so backroutish, though it's clearly not your intended solution since it still saves 98%.  It is my best attempt so far at actually trying to figure out what your intended solution might be.

I've noticed how the area left of the upper entrance seems like something an intended solution might use, but so far I've failed to find any reasons to trouble myself with that part of the level.  I'm also not seeing any viable way to release the lower entrance crowd on the left (takes up too much skills or too many dead lemmings), and since going through the ceiling at that place is a backroute given your fixes, I'm left only with bashing out the piece of wood at the bottom right.

[namida]

This is the intended solution.

[namida]

In other news, I found a solution to "To The End!" that doesn't use the dig-on-the-same-spot trick (which could be argued to be a glitch), nor does it involve digging a one way wall.

I don't consider it a backroute because, like with No Salvation and several others, To The End! isn't meant to have any one specific single solution.

[ccexplore]

the dig-on-the-same-spot trick (which could be argued to be a glitch)

Not 100% sure what trick you're referring to, but if it's this:

If you have a 2nd lemming dig at the exact same location as an existing digger, it will free the existing digger (ie. cause him to stop digging).

Then isn't it something that also works in Cheapo?  Unless a behavior is so contrary to common sense and logic, I'd be hard pressed to call it a glitch when it works in both Lemmings and Cheapo.  The described behavior in particular is so logical, it would be more of a glitch to me if it doesn't work.

And as tempted as I am to just look at the replay for the intended solution to "The Framework", I think I'd rather get some hints instead before I really give up.  I guess the questions I have so far is (you can put your answers in spoiler tags if you want):

1) when you release the crowd from the lower entrance, which way (or perhaps "ways?") do they exit their holding area?  (left/right/above/below)

2) are the staircases left of the upper entrance involved in the intended solution, or just a red herring?

3) in all my solutions so far, the path to the exit ends with the miner's slope, bridge over the gap, and bashing through the pillar left of the exit.  Is at least that portion part of the intended solution as well?

[namida]

1) Below.
2) They are indeed involved in it.
3) Yes, it is.

Anyway, one of the reasons I consider that to be a glitch at least to some extent is the fact that you need to do it pixel perfect, and on top of that, depending on the exact frame position of the diggers relative to each other, it may not work. On top of that, bashers or miners on the same spot certianly don't cause one of them to stop. It's not a major issue, but it's still good to know there's a solution that doesn't require it.

[namida]

Good luck on this one. You'll need it.

EDIT: Version 2 uploaded. Don't worry about redownloading if you got it, the change is purely graphical.
EDIT: Version 3 uploaded. Version 2 had the wrong time limit.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[ccexplore]

Anyway, one of the reasons I consider that to be a glitch at least to some extent is the fact that you need to do it pixel perfect, and on top of that, depending on the exact frame position of the diggers relative to each other, it may not work. On top of that, bashers or miners on the same spot certianly don't cause one of them to stop.

It sounds like you don't quite grasp why the digger stops.  A digger stops basically when there's nothing more for him to dig.  Generally that happens when he's dug through an entire platform.  In the trick, you create this situation by having a second digger remove all the pixels underneath the first digger that he would've otherwise dug out himself later in his upcoming stroke.  So by the time the first digger do get to his stroke, the pixels are gone, he sees nothing to dig, so he stops and falls.  Indeed, if the game does more frequent checks for falling than is currently the case, the truly logical behavior would've been that the first digger falls as soon as the second digger has dug.

You need it pixel perfect only if the first digger is fully on ground, the pixel-perfect position necessary to remove all the pixels underneath the first digger that could cause him to continue digging.  If he's digging on the edge of a vertical drop for example, then the second digger has less pixels to remove , and therefore doesn't have to be perfectly on the same spot as the first digger to free him.

There might be some oddness with the behavior under certain timing/frame positions, I'll have to look at the game programming again to see, but in most cases it should work.

As for miners freeing miners and bashers freeing bashers, that can be done too, but not on the exact same spot because you don't remove the correct pixels at that position.  I've attached examples for both.  The miner one is demonstrated in level Tricky 6, and the basher one in level Mayhem 27.  For the basher one, you need 3 bashers because the basher looks ahead a bit further than can be handled in time by just a second basher.  Note that the climbers and floaters being assigned have nothing to do with the trick; they just help you identify the lemming that gets freed.

[Clam]

Good luck on this one. You'll need it.
[/quote

I think the title (and your comment) would suit better if the level gave you 2 minutes instead of 3. With some good multitasking, this is possible.

[namida]

o_O
f***.
It's meant to have 2 minutes, not 3. >_> Originally it had 4, then 3, then I kept trying and  sure enough found a 2 minute solution.

By the way, just out of interest, can I see your solution? It's again not one of the levels that's meant to have only one solution, but I'm interested to see if you solved it the same way I did.

Haha. One thing that's GREAT though. I saw a potential easy way to solve it (much too easy to leave in if it turned out to be possible)... and guess what? With the best timing I could acheive, the last lemming is one second too slow.

[Minim]

Dam you! I can't even believe you said that word, in that case, I'm reporting to the moderator (This is quite bad timing but still, this is a thread open to everyone at all ages, man).

[namida]

We've already had this discussion. I believe the final result was that the admin "couldn't care less about the words themself" or something to that effect.

Besides, if he did, the forum system does have an option to automatically remove certain words, so chances are that'd be turned on. Which it very obviously isn't.

[Clam]

I'm not too concerned about the swearing - actually, it was kinda funny in this case...

Anyway, here's my replay for "No time to die".

[namida]

o_O
That's definately a solution that needs to be removed. Far too easy...

The question though is, how to remove it while leaving in the "intended" one. (I use quotes as it's not really meant to have just one solution - but it certianly isn't meant to have any that are that easy either...)

Here's how I did it:

[Clam]

Wow, that's complicated.  I have no idea how you plan to force something like that as a solution.

[namida]

A mid-air (or close to it) trap could eliminate your route possibly, without causing any backroutes... but could it be made to look good without adding backroute-causing terrain or eliminating other valid routes that may not have been discovered yet?

There's also the issue of whether or not it'll have a significant effect on the easier version of this level, which is currently placed as early as Wimpy 11.

By the way, another minimum skills I'd like to see someone beat: 13 skills on "One Step At A Time" (in the demo) - using DOS MECHANICS, NOT CUSTLEMM. (It DOES make a difference here.)
Actually, 13 seems a very common minimum skills number for the levels I'm making... xD

[ccexplore]

Wow, that's complicated.  I have no idea how you plan to force something like that as a solution.

lol I haven't looked at this level at all (nor any solutions posted, intended or not), but based on namida's earlier attempt with "The Framework", I'm not surprised namida once again came up with something complicated that ends up being a backroute swamp.   Might be a fun level-design-type challenge though (or at least a good exercise) to try to eliminate the backroutes (or at least make them difficult enough "not to matter").

[namida]

There is a huge difference though - The Framework is meant to have only *one* route, whereas No Time To Die is simply not meant to have any easy routes.

[Fernito]

I found a 9 skills/100% solution for "No Salvation" (or 8 skills/90%). Don't know if the intended solution uses less skills (I assume the solution I found isn't the intended, because it's 100%).

Here's the replay.

PS: Also found a backroute for "Coalburner"

[namida]

Heh. Nice. But fixing it is a simple matter of moving the traps higher.

[Fernito]

Heh. Nice. But fixing it is a simple matter of moving the traps higher.

Yep, I was going to say the same thing

As for "No Salvation", was my solution a backroute you already knew of?

[namida]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: No Salvation is not intended to force any one specific solution.

[Fernito]

Sorry, I didn't read that. Anyway, I was asking because I got 100%, and the level allows you to lose one lemming.

[namida]

Not all levels force you to save the maximum possible %, not even in Psycho.

(Based on current positions, which may change, and all are assuming no backroutes are used, whether via glitch or not)
Psycho 6 (The Bulldozer) requires 98%, but 100% is possible.
Psycho 9 (Coalburner) requires 80%, but 92% is possible.
Psycho 23 (The Framework) requires 90%, but 94% is possible (while theoretically, 96% can be done, I've yet to acheive this, and I've tried heaps, so it may be impossible to line up the perfect timing for this).

True, that's only 4 levels (including No Salvation) out of 19 Psycho levels so far, but it still makes the point.

There are varying reasons for this. No Salvation is simply following the pattern of requiring an extra 10% in each incarnation of it. Coalburner has nothing to gain from making the save requirement steeper, so it simply doesn't do so. The Framework needs that flexibility - while 92% or 94% is definately possible, it's extremely hard to get anything over 90% (and that in itself is quite tricky, you'll probably have at least one or two 88% or possibly even 86% attempts before you make it). The Bulldozer is the worst of all - it gives you a blocker, and lets you lose one lemming, most likely making you assume the blocker is somehow involved in the solution. It's not, and in fact, you should be acheiving 100% every time.

[namida]

And the newest level, Psycho 16 (Crosswork), which requires 96% but again, like with The Bulldozer, it's merely a distraction - the intended solution saves 100% (unless you run out of time before the last few lemmings exit).

Anyway, here's what should be a fixed version of No Time To Die, eliminating any possible easy routes. I've also attached another level, "A Perfect Nightmare", mostly again for backroute testing. One possible way to tell if your solution is the intended one is, if it is, it should use every builder, one of them in a pretty creative way. (However, if not, that doesn't nessecerially mean it's a backroute, it may be possible to pull off the intended solution with a couple of builders unused).

NOTE: These levels, as all others, are designed for original mechanics, not CustLemm! In the case of "A Perfect Nightmare", this does actually make a difference!

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[namida]

A minor change to "Return of the T": It now only has two builders, not three. I found a way to complete it without the third one... and then proceeded to make this a requirement.

The new solution fits more into what I'm trying to do with most of PSYCHO, having solutions that rely on more than just, for the most part, solving a difficult puzzle with a worker while using some neat tricks for crowd control of the remainder, but rather, requiring careful interactions between skills, careful crowd control to make a lemming available at the right moment, and so on. (Of course, there are levels that avert this too, just to keep the player thinking!)

[Clam]

Anyway, here's what should be a fixed version of No Time To Die, eliminating any possible easy routes.

Yeah, maybe not. It's still quite easy. Replays attached for this and "A perfect nightmare".

[namida]

Ugh, more work needed on No Time To Die. I had tried that solution, but found time to be slightly too short, you did a better job...

However, your solution to A Perfect Nightmare is pretty much the same as my one. There are a few slight differences, but the key points are still there. I've attached a replay of how I did it.

[namida]

Here's the pack's obligatory one-of-everything level. I think I actually made a pretty neat puzzle here.

It should require 7 of the 8 skills to complete. While it's fairly easy to tell which one isn't used, I tried to not make it *too* obvious.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Clam]

I did it using only 5

[namida]

>_> Trust you to think of that!!!

And of course, trust me to do this to fix it:

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Clam]

I found another two fun backroutes before I struck the (presumably) intended solution.

We're getting to the point where the backroutes are harder than the intended solution though.

[namida]

Those backroutes are indeed tricky enough that I think they can be left in as alternative solutions. (As well as, it's arguable whether they're glitchy or not.)

And yes, your third one is the intended solution (well, I did it with the bomber and digger reversed, but apart from that...)

[Fernito]

This is my try. I didn't use the floater, so I suppose it is a backoute. Anyway, this is the only solution I was able to come up with.

EDIT: no, it wasn't a backroute! Just watched Clam Spammer's replay

[namida]

The floater is indeed unused in the intended solution. I couldn't think of a way to make him needed without either allowing the climber to die, or requiring a second miner. And besides, it's more fun to have one skill that's just there to throw the player off (a lot of my levels do this - for example, Oblivion has 20 climbers and 20 floaters which are unused, however, they also trick the player into thinking the 20 blockers are also unused, where in fact 18 blockers must be used to beat it). Then of course, there's the bombers in To The End! (which requires 100%).

A less obvious example would be the random assortment of extra skills in "What Did You Expect?" (a few blockers and builders), when the intended solution uses only three bombers. The two builders may even make the player try a direct-drop solution (which fails, as the exit is just a few pixels too far away).

[Fernito]

Yes, I've noticed that several levels of yours have distractors. I definitely love distractors in lemmings levels

[namida]

It's even more fun to make a hard level that has a generic skillset, though. Like for example, how "No Time To Die" just gives you 9 of everything, or "To The End!" gives you 20 of everything except builders, and you're on your own to figure out which ones need to be used and how, rather than simply having a few extra duds thrown in.

It's also quite fun to set lower % requirements than the intended solution will save. For example, the intended solution on Coalburner easily saves upwards of 90% (and indeed, you'd have to go out of your way to lose much more than this), yet it only requires 80%. Many of the PSYCHO (and to a lesser extent, Danger) levels do this. PSYCHO 6 "The Bulldozer" is very evil on this - it requires 98%, and gives you a blocker. Good luck finding any way to actually use that blocker - the intended solution uses only builders and bashers, and should save 100%. Of course, there are some levels where doing this just isn't practical, as saving the requirement is part of the challenge in itself. PSYCHO 28 "To The End!" is probably the best example of this - imagine how much easier it'd be if you could just leave a couple of blockers lying around throughout the level. Instead, you have to either find a way to get them to turn around in the position they themself were blocking (obviously without using another blocker, since then you'd have to free that one) after you free them, or find a way to avoid using blockers altogether. (In a very rare display of niceness from a PSYCHO level - either way is possible.)

[namida]

w00t, I finally managed to make a couple of dirt-style levels that are actually pretty challenging.

(One is late-Danger, one is mid-PSYCHO)

100% appears to be impossible on both. My record is the requirement on "Secret to Success", and 97% on "The Hideout" (but I'm pretty sure 98% should be possible - and with an extra builder, 100% is possible).

In general, I'm trying to avoid using the fire and marble (and to a lesser extent, brick) styles on the recent levels as I've used them far too much so far.

All old downloads (except the official demo) have been removed.

[Clam]

100% appears to be impossible on both.

 

100% is certainly possible on "The Hideout". And no, I didn't use glitches, although I did take advantage of the game mechanics in a way (creating a step by stopping a basher mid-stroke).

And I just realised I recorded my replays in Custom Lemmings mode, which changes the entrance order. I guarantee the solution doesn't depend on this though

My solution (attached) for "Secret to Success" isn't stunning percentage-wise, but it is very simple - perhaps too much for your liking.

[namida]

I wouldn't consider that overly simple, it's pretty creative. I'm considering whether or not to leave that in as a second route...

[namida]

Another challenge for you guys:

"Shooting Star" (I posted it a while back) is intended to teach the fall-bomber trick. Your challenge is to beat it without any falling bombers. (This requires use of at least one skill not used in the normal solution, release rate manipulation, and multiple pixel-perfect moves.)

[Joemon]

Will levels requiring the Vgaspec graphics be used in this?

[namida]

The default ones, no. I may or may not make a level using a custom one, but most likely not.

[namida]

Well. 76 levels, and still not a single one using the Bubble set.

So here's the first one using it! (As well as an easier version of it that requires only 50% and gives 20 of everything, but that one's not really worth posting. Modify the attached level if you really want to play it.)

Also, I've removed all old level downloads (except the official demo). I'm thinking about doing a second preview pack now that there's a better selection of levels to choose from, too.

EDIT: At least one backroute fixed. Redownload if you had it before this note was here.
EDIT: Should be completely backroute-free now.

This level is no longer available as a single download.

[chaos_defrost]

I saved 97% with a climber, floater, and blocker left -- is that intentional?

[namida]

Can't say it is. My solution saves 96% with only the floater left.

...and I just blew both of our solutions away by saving 98% with 2 climbers, the floater and 2 blockers left. >_> But the way I did that is VERY easily fixed.

Uploaded the fixed version above, let me know if your route still works on it and if so, can you upload a replay?

[chaos_defrost]

My route still works.

Here's the replay:

[namida]

Ah. That's not too different from my intended solution, although it does avert one of my favourite parts, so I'm thinking about whether or not to leave it in... I'll probably remove it, not that hard to do... (either make the diagonal ramp indestructible, or to be more fair, put an obstacle that must be climbed inbetween the mining point and the wall that's climbed at the start, either way will fix it).

[namida]

A second demo is now available, containing another 2 levels from each difficulty. Some of these have been posted temporarily earlier in the topic, some have never been seen before:

Mild: "Farewell, My Lemming" and "Across The Ditch"
Wimpy: "Backdraft" and "Get up, up, up!"
Medi: "This Is..." and "Eye of the Lemming"
Danger: "In the life of a Lemming" and "So That's The Plan..."
PSYCHO: "Lightspeed Lemming" and "No Time To Die"


I also counted up how much I've been using each  style, and was quite surprised, since I didn't think I'd been using Pillar nearly as much as Marble...  so far:

Dirt: 9
Fire: 10
Marble: 14
Pillar: 16
Crystal: 11
Brick: 9
Rock: 4
Snow: 3
Bubble: 2

[namida]

Fixed the latest backroute.

By the way, don't assume that your solution is unintended because it's easy on this one. This one isn't intended to be PSYCHO, it's intended as mid-Danger (which is substantially easier than PSYCHO).

[namida]

And I finally, after ages of procrastinating on it, did a fewest skills attempt on No Time To Die. My best result so far: 29 skills.

It might be possible to reduce this to 24-ish. I'll try soon.

EDIT: Success. Reduced to 23 skills. This solution is VERY tight for time. The normal solution, I can do with about 7-8 seconds left on the clock. The 23 skills solution, 1 second remaining, on the edge of flipping over to 0.

Unless there's some way to pull off an awesome slide (which I haven't had much luck with), I'd say 23 is the bare minimum. I've tried a two-climber solution and it barely misses the time limit, so no luck there, besides, that was done based on the 29 skills solution so it probably wouldn't even work on the 23-skills one.

Still one hell of a lot of skills for a 2 minute, one screen, x of each skill level! (To be fair though, the level IS one of the hardest, if not THE hardest, so far... which is pretty amazing in itself for a one screen, x of each skill level...)

[geoo]

I just had my first attempt at the level, and came up with a solution I actually quite like (no brute-forcing the solution, but trying to find an elegant way). It uses 22 skills, and I didn't try to optimize it, even.

I suspect it's likely that you can get a very low skill-count using the sliding glitch...

[namida]

Impressive. Not a backroute by any means (every key element of the intended solution is present in yours - the multiple workers making different parts of the path, the build up and mine down on the right side, the climber landing on the first worker's bridge rather than entering with the others, etc), but still a very impressive way to deal with the level. That's one of the things I like about levels such as this one, No Salvation, To The End, etc - there's several different ways to beat them, yet they still manage to be challenging no matter what route you find. (For those of you who didn't get To The End while it was available - get the first demo, and play "One Step At A Time". "To The End" is a repeat version of this, with only one difference - instead of 20 builders, you have none. Everything else is the same.)

Here's my 23-skill solution. Based on it, you can probably optimize yours further.

(As with all my replays, and for that matter as all my levels are intended to be played where relevant, it uses DOS Mechanics, not CustLemm)

[geoo]

Ah yes, I didn't try the basher at the top as for some reason I thought the timing wouldn't work out. That saves two skills, including a builder.
I also found a way to time a climber using a floater, reducing the skills by another one, including a builder again.
I'm not too much a fan of solution optimisation, but these two make the solution actually a bit cleaner.
(Attached solution uses CustLemm machanics, as that's consistent with most replays and the ONML styles. Shouldn't matter in this case).

So it's down to 19 skills, and only 7 builders used. You could make it a 7-of-each level.

EDIT: Here's also a (pretty inefficient) sliding solution:

[namida]

The level's hard enough as it is... it's staying 9 of each.

[namida]

Here's another new one.

EDIT: Backroute fix uploaded. If you have the old version, you don't really need to redownload; the only change is the new version only gives 4 builders instead of 5. This does make the intended solution a little bit harder to pull off, but makes the backroute completely impossible.

Download now removed.

[GigaLem]

How bout L+ mutiplayer level pack
here are some sagestion
1.Together we are eight 4P 5P 6P 7P 8P
2.Dead duck Bad luck 2P
3.Triple threat 3P
4.The great labynth 4P
5.Midnight snack 2P 4P 6P
6.Detention 4P
7.Back from the dead 6P
8.It's a bird..2P 3P 4P 5P
9.The crossover point (4 player edition)
10.Fly on a broom stick
Plus some from the original lemmings and onmlemmings
In four player style

[Minim]

Giga, this is not related to what namida is trying to do, OK? This is not multiplayer lemmings. The purpose of this project is to copy and paste levels from Lemmings Plus. He doesn't need his creative skills for this. Remember, namida is the host and (in this topic) he does the levels.

[GigaLem]

Okay whatever then
mabye i'll work on a l++ multiplayer pack

[namida]

If Lemmix gets support for multiplayer, I might throw some multiplayer levels in, but at this stage it doesn't look likely.

[namida]

Question: Could I please get reviews on the 2nd demo pack (in the same style as the Level Review game), so I can take them into account with further new levels?

[Dullstar]

LP2 - Level 1

Good:  Simple level for the simple entry into the game.
Bad:  The name suggests you must lose at least one lemming.  I imagine it's not a problem, but here's a replay on how to save all the lemmings.

Level 2

Good:  There are many ways to save all of the lemmings.
Bad:  I can't say I know where in the first rating it will be, but if it goes in the early part, disregard this comment:  Way too easy, newbies will probably be able to identify a solution in seconds.

Level 3

Good:  Uh, nicely put together for what's there?  Compact?  I don't know.
Bad:  Solution is fairly obvious for something going into rating 2.  I guess Tricky 1 had this same problem, but...  Here's what I did to make solving the level more interesting (although it wasn't something the level required at all)!

Level 4

Good:  The first level in the pack that made me think. 
Bad:  What appears to be the intended solution requires timed bombers.  I was almost ready to give up when I noticed what I believe is a backroute.

Could not solve 5

Level 6

Good:  Nice design.  2 lemmings, looks daunting at first.
Bad:  Compared to both 4 and 5, my solution may be a backroute.  Another replay.

Just so you know, I use the DOS mechanics.

[namida]

Level 1: The name is purely random. 100% is possible, and in fact, the repeat version requires it.
Level 2: All of the Mild levels are meant to be simple like that - Mild is more comparable to Tame than to Fun.
Level 3: This level has since been moved to Danger, and the builder removed. Still working on killing some backroutes (the obvious one being bombing through the wall).
Level 4: I didn't watch your replay (if you even posted one for this), but I think with 20 builders, it's fairly obvious you can solve it without timed bombers.
Level 5: ...you couldn't solve it? I guess this level is a bit trickier than I thought. (In fact, I thought it possibly too easy for a Medi level. The only thing that makes it somewhat hard IMO is the 100% requirement.)
Level 6: I imagine you did find the backroute (second lemming builds immediately, first bashes then builds to the exit). This route is fixed as easily as raising the number of lemmings.

In general, Mild levels are meant to be very simple - with "Up, Down, Round & Round" thrown in for a sudden difficulty spike (although I'm considering moving it to Wimpy) - even towards the end. Wimpy is meant to be a mix of slightly less simple do-what-you-like levels and some easy puzzle levels. Medi is supposed to be complex do-what-you-likes combined with some more challenging puzzles, and Danger with good puzzles (as well as a few hard do-what-you-likes, such as "So That's The Plan..." from the 2nd demo). PSYCHO is meant to be just puzzles, puzzles and more puzzles (although at least one very hard do-what-you-like made it in - mostly due to the fact that it's missing one skill, and that one missed skill happens to be builders, which to most people would appear to be critical to solving the level).

[namida]

Here are LVL files for levels that are in the demos but have since been modified.

1st Demo
Die the Death of the Damned: There is no change to the level itself, only its difficulty rank has been changed. It is now Danger, not Medi.  Therefore, no new LVL file is required.
Bullet Lemming: The level gives you one fewer builder than before (so the total is 11 builders). It has also been moved from Danger to PSYCHO.

2nd Demo
Backdraft: The design is slightly modified to remove backroutes, and you no longer get a builder. It has also been moved to Danger.
Eye of the Lemming: The level now has 10 lemmings (still 100%) instead of 2, to remove a backroute.

EDIT: Eye of the Lemming has been changed to remove a backroute. The change is that you now only have 1 blocker instead of 5, all else  is the same as  before.

[GigaLem]

Here my idea for a level
every one has them too
Walking in the dark

1|2|3|4|5|4|3|2|1

good:This level has suprisingly invisable tarrain
Bad: you don't know were it ends 

[Minim]

Giga: I've said this before and I'll say it again. " title="Angry" class="smiley" /> This project is not about planning level ideas. I suppose you never knew where Lemmings plus comes from. It was a game that already exists as a bonus pack (Or is it? I don't know) for Cheapo lemmings, and the only person who knows about these levels is namida. If you want to think of a new level go and start a new topic.

namida: I've downloaded your 3 latest levels (I don't usually do this but whatever, it's a new challenge for me!). I'll PM you for my responses to each level.

[namida]

Giga: This topic is about *my* levels that come from *my* ideas, not another place for you to demand people do things you want them to. Grow up; everyone's seriously starting to get sick of you.

Not to mention how the hell can you have that skillset? You only have 8 skills - clearly, all you've thought of is "that number sequence would look cool", not how they'd actually apply - look again and you'll see you've given quantities for 9 skills. What, are we meant to only be able to use the nuke once?

[Dullstar]

Is #1 or #9 the release rate?  Either way, wrong topic.

Namida, about the 20 builders to avoid the timed bombing, I'll have to go back and check.  I could have sworn there was only one or two. 

[Dullstar]

By the way, Giga, if you want to design levels or suggest ideas, there's a fangame that is taking community submissions (I've submitted 26/120-160 levels, but of course, the levels contained in the 120-160 levels will be voted upon and stuff.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=17

[namida]

Namida, about the 20 builders to avoid the timed bombing, I'll have to go back and check.  I could have sworn there was only one or two. 

20 builders, 10 of everything else.

[Minim]

Not to mention how the hell can you have that skillset? You only have 8 skills - clearly, all you've thought of is "that number sequence would look cool", not how they'd actually apply - look again and you'll see you've given quantities for 9 skills. What, are we meant to only be able to use the nuke once?

The skillset would be perfect for 3D lemmings

Namida, about the 20 builders to avoid the timed bombing, I'll have to go back and check.  I could have sworn there was only one or two. 

20 builders, 10 of everything else.

Which level is this? The three latest levels I downloaded doesn't have 20 builders.

[namida]

"Get up, up, up!" from the 2nd demo. There's no single level file because it hasn't been changed since the demo release.

Also note that another backroute-removing change has been made to Eye of the Lemming. However, a redownload isn't really nessecary, the change just reduces the number of blockers from 5 to 1.

So for the 2nd demo, the changes since the original release of it:
Backdraft: Builder removed. It is no longer possible to bomb through the wall, it is no longer possible to dig and bash under it. (Downloading new version on the previous page is reccomended.) The difficulty rank is also changed, it is now Danger rather than Wimpy.
Eye of the Lemming: 10 lemmings instead of 2 (still requires 100%). 1 blocker instead of 5.
All other levels are the same as before.

[Dullstar]

Timed bombing???  On Get Up, up, up?  My replay for that one was just an entertaining way to do it. 

The timed bomber level was Backdraft.  I didn't intend to bomb through the wall, actually, my first idea was to send three lemmings over the wall and make a hole to block the third one so it turns around.  This theretically should turn around the third lemming.  This solution will no longer work though, as there is no longer a builder.  Wait - did that level have blockers or not?  I may have overlooked something.

[namida]

Timed bombing???  On Get Up, up, up?  My replay for that one was just an entertaining way to do it. 

The timed bomber level was Backdraft.  I didn't intend to bomb through the wall, actually, my first idea was to send three lemmings over the wall and make a hole to block the third one so it turns around.  This theretically should turn around the third lemming.  This solution will no longer work though, as there is no longer a builder.  Wait - did that level have blockers or not?  I may have overlooked something.

No, no blockers. You have 5 climbers, 5 bombers, 2 bashers, 1 digger.

And indeed, using three bombers is the key to turning the climber around. Actually, two turn him around, the third is so that you can get the lemmings out of the pit. There's a reason why it's moved to Danger now that the builder was removed, you know! (Actually, it'd probably fit better in PSYCHO... but there again, so would Die The Death Of The Damned and that one's staying in Danger).

[namida]

Here's another one that, while not hard, might be fun for challenges.

To start off with... I've managed it in both one-lemming-only and one-skill-per-lemming, 1 minute, RR99 (not that that even makes a difference =P) and one-of-each-skill. 100% is possible. Minimum skills 5, minimum skills with maximum % is 8.

EDIT: Improved 100% fewest skills run to 7 skills. This route's a lot easier to execute, too.

Download removed.

[Dullstar]

Don't see a download link.   

[namida]

o_O
Uhh...
I do! =P

[namida]

I also came up with an excellent idea for a harder version. But it required a very slight modification to the terrain, so the level's been reuploaded.

Rather than seperately upload the harder version, the changes are:
Time limit: 5 mins instead of 9 mins (shouldn't actually make a difference)
Skills: 2 floaters, 4 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner

No, there's no hidden exit or anything.

BTW, did you have any luck on "This Is..." or the last 4 levels of the second demo?

[Clam]

Minimum skills 5, minimum skills with maximum % is 8.

EDIT: Improved 100% fewest skills run to 7 skills. This route's a lot easier to execute, too.

I got 100% with 6 skills.

[Dullstar]

I also came up with an excellent idea for a harder version. But it required a very slight modification to the terrain, so the level's been reuploaded.

Rather than seperately upload the harder version, the changes are:
Time limit: 5 mins instead of 9 mins (shouldn't actually make a difference)
Skills: 2 floaters, 4 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner

No, there's no hidden exit or anything.

BTW, did you have any luck on "This Is..." or the last 4 levels of the second demo?

Okay, then why did you not upload it?  And why did you say you would reupload it,, then didn't?  I am confused.

[GigaLem]

 " title="Angry" class="smiley" />
I'd rather play the epic fangame

[Dullstar]

Giga, you've made custom levels, right?  Can I go through them to see if any are good, then include them in the fangame if they are?

[namida]

I also came up with an excellent idea for a harder version. But it required a very slight modification to the terrain, so the level's been reuploaded.

Rather than seperately upload the harder version, the changes are:
Time limit: 5 mins instead of 9 mins (shouldn't actually make a difference)
Skills: 2 floaters, 4 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner

No, there's no hidden exit or anything.

BTW, did you have any luck on "This Is..." or the last 4 levels of the second demo?

Okay, then why did you not upload it?  And why did you say you would reupload it,, then didn't?  I am confused.

I reuploaded the easier version with the modification. The harder version is the same except for less time and very limited skills, as described, so you can just play the easy one with those limitations.

[Minim]

Giga, you've made custom levels, right?

You gotta be kidding, right?

He's not kidding, the link is here.

[namida]

o_O
Some of them look like they look like they could be quite good, depending on the skillset given...

[ccexplore]

Giga, you've made custom levels, right?

You gotta be kidding, right?

He's not kidding, the link is here.

  You sure it's the same Giga?!?

Ok, my earlier snide comment deleted, since the evidence is now making me feel like I had made fun of someone with a disability or something.  If only the Giga we see in the forums do more of that stuff we see in that link......

[Dullstar]

I can tell it is the same Giga on these forums.  And he did pretty good as far as just looking at them goes (I haven't downloaded the pack)

[Zack]

Where is the link to download the Lemmings Plus DOS Project demo?

[namida]

In the first post of this topic, however, keep in mind that a few of the levels have significantly changed (reuploads are on the previous page). Those are "Bullet Lemming", "Backdraft" and "Eye of the Lemming".

[namida]

Here's another new one that's quite fun. It's only in Medi, so don't expect *too* much of a challenge, though. One of the reasons for it being in the game is to provide a hint towards a later, harder level's solution.

Download removed now.

[namida]

I've managed to embed the levels into a Lemmix player EXE. =D
So I can release a LemmixPlayer of Lemmings Plus once the levels are done. (With the musics I prefer, too! =P)

[namida]

I just re-did  the replay for Not Gonna Work (some of you will remember how insane that level is) using original rather than OhNo mechanics (no real difference but the player won't load OhNo replays in Orig mode).

I don't know what's more surprising: That I could be bothered doing that level again, or that I managed it perfectly FIRST TRY. o_O

[namida]

Another new one. It's a remake of an old classic of mine (which was a modification of Fun 3), but now I've done it in a different style! (And knocked up the difficulty a few hundred notches.)

Download removed.

[Minim]

You're stacking 5 posts in a row now.

Nice level! It's so random how many lemmings you can get in such a short space of time. My best attempt is 68% so far, although I have to wonder, how many solutions were there if it wasn't for that one minute timer? I'll experiment later on.

Edit: Improved to 88% now.

[namida]

Not bad. Keep trying and you should be able to make the required 98%. (Keep in mind that some of the skills are duds.)

[namida]

A third demo has been released. I'll make a LemmixPlayer for the three demos sometime soon.

In more behind-the-scenes news, I finally have a orig-mechanics replay for EVERY SINGLE LEVEL (except The Framework which *STILL* needs backroute fixing that could affect the intended solution - if I didn't think the intended solution was so genius, I'd've long since given up on it and made it's easier version a unique level. I might do this and remake The Framework from scratch as another unique level.)

[GigaLem]

Ok  namida  im realy sorry
for post ideas when not to on this topic
i didn't mean to
but i could'nt grave hold of myseft

Foolishly
-Giga

[namida]

It's alright, I understand that, but there are a *lot* of things you need to work on. I'm not saying you can't do it, but you do need to *try*.

[Minim]

I was the only one (so far) to download your spreadsheet. Quite a nice colourful big table here! My brain loves colour apparantly.

I wonder, do you edit the levels in any order?

[namida]

I use the Sega musics on mine,  which is a fixed pattern (ie: level 1 has music 1, level 2 has music 2) as opposed to the PC version where it just does them in order, advancing each level, and I've always tried to have levels suit the music playing in them, so that's part of the reason for the gaps. There's also, to a lesser degree, that the harder ones generally appear later in their difficulty ranking (but to mimic the style of the original games, there are exceptions - for example, although it's quite a hard level, No Salvation is one of the easiest PSYCHO levels yet is the 2nd to last level in PSYCHO, and on the other hand, Backdraft is one of the harder Danger levels yet appears quite close to the start).

[GigaLem]

The third demo looks cool to bad its the last
i thout it'll go to the 8th demo
but last demo means thats that

[namida]

It's only 49 more levels to be made until the full release. Hold on.

[namida]

The player is done. I couldn't be bothered making each level play the music it normally would, so it just follows the normal pattern (except without resetting between difficulty rankings). The only ones that match up to the music they'd actually have in the final versions (and thus, the ones I see them as suiting, as mentioned in the post above) are "No Time To Die" (demo 2) and "Not gonna work." (demo 3).

It includes all modifications and re-orderings.

Link: http://rapidshare.com/files/307219411/LPDOSDemo.zip

Also, another new PSYCHO level for you to try out:

Download removed.

[namida]

I added in a few of the better levels from my old WinLemm remake (unfortunately, the best one of all, "The Diving Board", doesn't work with any mechanics other than those of WinLemm - Orig, CustLemm and Cheapo all included) - which also happened to have among it a remake of a level I wanted to remake for this anyway, "Death In All Directions".

[GigaLem]

You should of thought of a game traller for the game your making

[namida]

No real need to. We're all familiar with Lemmings, it's just new levels.


W00t, 120 levels now. Only 30 to go!

[namida]

As I thought about before, The Framework has been dropped (but I may remake it from scratch later) and it's easier version become a unique level. The LP4 Demo level "Death Row" has been remade to replace it.

[namida]

Only 28 levels to go (mostly in Wimpy, Medi and Danger - it's fairly easy to create super easy or super hard levels, creating inbetween ones is a bit harder for me. Mild only needs 4 more and PSYCHO 2 more.)

Here's another interesting one I just came up with, mostly by accident.

Download removed.

[Minim]

Level Order
The first Mild level to be made was Heading On In... (Mild 3). The last one to be made was Wish You Had Them? (Mild .

I said this to Proxima a few months ago and now I would say this to you: I've noticed that was there. To avoid smilies in posts: Go to Additional Options and tick the box "Don't use smileys". Don't worry, this box doesn't affect the smileys from all your posts.

Anyway, good job on finishing the Mild levels. I assume that you're not going to give us the download unless every set is finished? Well, I'm not too worried about that at the moment.

[ccexplore]

Level Order
The first Mild level to be made was Heading On In... (Mild 3). The last one to be made was Wish You Had Them? (Mild .

I said this to Proxima a few months ago and now I would say this to you: I've noticed that was there. To avoid smilies in posts: Go to Additional Options and tick the box "Don't use smileys". Don't worry, this box doesn't affect the smileys from all your posts.

Another way to deal with this annoying issue is to put a space between the "8" and the ")", like this 8 ).  That way you can still put smilies in the post.

[namida]

Anyway, good job on finishing the Mild levels. I assume that you're not going to give us the download unless every set is finished? Well, I'm not too worried about that at the moment.

As I only need to do 16 more levels altogether, I don't see the major problem.

[namida]

Make that 12.

3 each in Wimpy and Medi, 4 in Danger, and 2 in PSYCHO.

EDIT: Try 10. 3 Wimpy, 2 Medi, 4 Danger, 1 PSYCHO.

[namida]

Here's one of the new Wimpy ones. While, being a Wimpy level, it's not hard by most people's standards, it can be quite frustrating to those aiming for minimum skills... try it and you'll see why.

I also noticed that, while all the ranks up to and even including Danger are usually quite nice to 100%ers, PSYCHO has very few 100%able levels - and of those which are 100%able, only 3 do not require it - one of which is geniunely being lenient (and I guess, at first I didn't realise 100% was possible - but there again, another one was modified to require 100% once I realised it could be done), but the other two are doing it to distract players from the real solution.

Download removed.

[namida]

All but Danger are now completed! Two more levels for Danger need to be made (or salvaged from my old packs =P).

[namida]

Danger is now finished! Will release in a bit, got some unrelated stuff to take care of before I can finish making the .DAT files and a Lemmix player.