Religion Arguments

[Louise]

It's really easy to point to something bad, and blame it on 'religion', and so conclude that anything involving the word 'religion' is bad. But that's a pretty vast concept to be condemning - and when you think that the term Christian literally translates to 'footstep follower of Christ', you have to wonder if it's the belief system at fault, or the people unsucessfully attempting to follow it. Can you imagine Jesus being alive now, and encouraging people to be racist or to condone war? (considering this is the guy who talked about a samaritan helping a jew, and hung out with lepers and former tax collectors.)  

[Louise]

And btw, in response to the 'School's back' thread: Conway and I were also home educated! Whish egsplains our wunderful levl ov educasion!  B)

[Anatol]

Well, go I went to the schools public happen and see can you better my spelling be!

[Anatol]

Whoa, this is strange...We start a topic about school, it turns into a religion argument, so we start a new topic...We argue about religion, and then we start talking about school...CREEPY! X_X

[dark_phoenix]

Lol! I suppose it's 'cause Andi locked the School's Back topic :-/

[remline]

Looking at religion strictly pragmatically:

1) It would be impossible to have a society in which morality was non-existent.

2) The system of morality that Christianity sets up is amazingly good, even if it is not divinely inspired.

3) Positivism simply has not worked. Look at America-- we can't decide what marriage, or even life, is.

I would say that government commissioned agnosticism is much more harmful to the good of society than a false belief in Christianity ever could be.

[Timballisto]

A couple things ------

WHY ARE THE STORIES IN THE BIBLE SO UNBELIEVABLEY UNBELIEVABLE???

You must remember this first: the Bible is a couple thousand years old.  Several times it has been translated into different languages.  The Greeks translated it.  The Germans had it translated.  The Anglicans, Spanish, blah blah blah blah blah!!!!!  What relevance does this have?  Imagine a TV.  Imagine you record something from the tv onto a vhs.  Then imagine that you record the info from the vhs to another one, and another, and another, and another.... eventually, the information gets really distorted or is lost, right?  Same case here.  The Greeks did a translation of it first, I believe, and the Greeks tend to glorify things.  Doesn't the parting of the Red Sea sound like some Greek Myth?  Also, what about Adam and Eve?  Think about it!  Also, the story was most likely exaggerate, this I know because: The area Moses supposedly crossed, was known to be exetremely shallow in the winter, revealing crossings, and in the spring, huge rains could suddenly sweep down and quickly flood the paths across the sea.  It was early, early spring when Moses crossed the Sea, and He was a couple of miles ahead of the pharoa's army.  Another thing:  When the USA still had slaves, the slave owners would send slaves to church.  The priests, when they noticed several slaves present, would preach from the Bible about how slaves were supposed to be loyal to their masters.  Does that really sound like something Jesus would say?  Heck no.  There had to be some sort of distortion of info or an added section in a translation somewhere.

next
THE CRUSADES---------
Why did Europe attack the Middle East?

For VERY good reasons, let me tell you!  They didn't simply go and attack them simply because they weren't christians.  They went and attacked them for multiple reasons.  They:

1.Were growing like a weed into European borders.
2.The Byzantines had called for help against the Turks.
3.The turks destroyed several churches and important Christian religous points in their conquests.
4.The middle east was always the aggressor (The Moors in Spain and France, the Ottoman turks in Asia minor and near Italy, the Seljuk turks in Byzantium, The islamic Jihad.)

It's true that the wars were somewhat religous, but, the other reasons for going to war must also be considered, for they were good reasons.

[Andi]

You are always talking like "no religion = no morality". I don't understand this. Do I have no morality? If I would have no morality, some of you would be already banned because you don't share my oppinion. I don't do this. And I'm not christian. So there's something wrong.

[Anatol]

You have a knowledge of right and wrong because it was given to you by God. Where would you get this sense of right and wrong through evolution?

You can observe how a lack of a belief in God is hurting our society, such as the increase in violence, Satanism, etc.

[Andi]

I don't understand the second part, but for the first one:

It cannot be given by god, because everyone has another oppinion of right and wrong. If this is given by god, the nazis are as well from god, because he gave them the believes for right and wrong. I'm not sure if that is your oppinion, but it's a result of what you said.
It's not given through evolution, it's given through our thoughts. Every animal knows what's wrong and what's right. We know what's wrong and what's right because we can think of what the results will be. I won't kill anyone just for un because I know I'll get in prison.

[Andi]

WHY ARE THE STORIES IN THE BIBLE SO UNBELIEVABLEY UNBELIEVABLE???(...)Several times it has been translated into different languages.  The Greeks translated it.  The Germans had it translated.  The Anglicans, Spanish, blah blah blah blah blah!!!!!

They made researches and found out the bible has been almost 1:1 copied through the monks in these thousands of years. And it has been always transleted from the original latin version. (was it latin?) So that's not the thing I worry about.
And because of Adam and Eve. My teacher for religion also said it hasn't happened like this. It's only a metapher.
And it's not so that I don't believe the bible. The fact is: It doesn't ineterest me. I think it's possible that gods exist. "When someone starts to pray a new god is born." This is how Black and White starts. If this god really exists or if it's luck is another thing. But I don't pray. I believe in my own strength.

For VERY good reasons, let me tell you!  They didn't simply go and attack them simply because they weren't christians.  They went and attacked them for multiple reasons.  They:
 
1.Were growing like a weed into European borders.
2.The Byzantines had called for help against the Turks.
3.The turks destroyed several churches and important Christian religous points in their conquests.
4.The middle east was always the aggressor (The Moors in Spain and France, the Ottoman turks in Asia minor and near Italy, the Seljuk turks in Byzantium, The islamic Jihad.)

1. The European where growing like weed in America. So it's okay if these few Indian in america start to slaught down the Europeans.
2. Where's the problem?
3. It was a conquest. And destroying a church is good to take the morality from the enemies. If you see a burning church and a dead priest you feel sad. If you feel said you can't fight.l That's normal. The vikings did that, too. And they ruled Europe.
4. I have to make some researches.

[Anatol]

I won't kill anyone just for un because I know I'll get in prison.

So you are saying that you WOULD kill people if there were no penalties? I hope not!

Every animal knows what's wrong and what's right.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Does a wolf feel guilty when it kills a rabbit? Or perhaps you were just referring to people?

They made researches and found out the bible has been almost 1:1 copied through the monks in these thousands of years.

I agree with you!

It doesn't ineterest me.

Well, it must, or you wouldn't be posting in this topic!

I believe in my own strength.

I don't see why you should. Are you responsible for your own existence? Do you think you could even survive without the assistance of at least other people? Or are you only very lucky that you live on a planet and in a society in which you are able to survive?

Where's the problem?

Before the start of the Crusades, the Byzantine Empire stretched through what is now Turkey. However, it was invaded by the Muslim Turks, and faced total destruction. Therefore, the Emperor called on Europe to help in the Empire's defense. If the Byzantines fell, then all of Europe would be vulnerable.

However, the Crusades ultimately failed, and Europe came very close to its destruction. Invasions came in through France and Turkey. In France, the Muslims were defeated at Tours (Spain would remain in Muslim hands for a long time more). And did you know that Vienna was besieged by the Ottoman Turks in 1683? Hmm...comes pretty close to Germany, doesn't it? The only reason I can see that you would hate the Crusades is because of your ignorance of history. (Probably not your fault, but the fault of school.)

So it's okay if these few Indian in america start to slaught down the Europeans.

I can understand perfectly why the Indians fought against the U.S. army to protect their land. Killing civilians is another matter, but something that usually occurs in all wars, whether just or not.

[Andi]

You're right. I know too less about the crusades. But schools not out for me so I have time to learn. I'll try stop talking about things I don't know.

And the wolf kills the rabbit because he knows after eating it he won't be hungry anymore. So after his oppinion it's good to kill and eat a rabbit.

And I wouldn't kill people just for fun. Too much waste of time and bullets. And because life is better than death. I don't say that because of religion, I say that because it's a fact.

As for the bible: I used to read the bible often in the past. But only because it was so funny to laugh about the odd things that happened there...

[G3K]

To quote something I said on Yahoo...

"Seems like the Religious Argument has turned into the 'Christians vs. Atheists vs. Jews vs. Muslims vs. Jedi' flamewar it was destined to be"

[Anatol]

And because life is better than death.

Why is life better than death? What gives YOU the right to say that? Do you just FEEL that life is better than death? And why should you care about whether others want to live or not? In other words, why does it matter?

I used to read the bible often in the past. But only because it was so funny to laugh about the odd things that happened there...

What parts are you talking about?