LemSteven's back, so it's time to start the new challenge thread 

Treating each skill as equal, saving at least the required percentage of lemmings and using only the standard skillset for each level, how few skills can you get by with?

We're not looking for a list of levels this time. We're finding a number for each level, which will eventually become a full set of records - much like the maximum number of lemmings saved (or fewest lemmings lost).

I'll keep an updated table in this post. I've been through the Fun levels, and already turned up some interesting results - 20, 23 and 25 are scores I'd consider challenge-worthy.

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|Rating | 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Total |
|-------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Fun    | 1  1  3 11  3  2  2  1  1  1  3  3  3  5  8  6  3  5  4  8  2  7  4  2  2  5  2  9 11  2  120  |
|Tricky | 2  5  6  7  7  7  9 10  7 12  6  7  7 12  3  6  2  3  5  5  7  2  5  4 12  3  7  4  5  7  184  |
|Taxing | 9  5  9  7 12  3  8  9  3  8 12 10  8 22 11 13  4  3  5  7  7  3 12  5  6 12  9  7  6  7  242  |
|Mayhem |21 12  4  3 12  9 11  8 11 10  9  5  6 15 10  2  9 15 11  7 28 13 14  3  9 11  3  7 18 23  319  |
|-------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Tame   | 2  1  2  1  2  1  2  2  2  1  2  2  3  3  2  2  1  2  4  2                                 39  |
|Crazy  | 2  5  2  5  8  8  6 10  5 10  1  5  4  9  4  7  8  6  5  9                                119  |
|Wild   | 4 10  7 10  9  3  7 21  0  5  7  7  9  6  6  5  6  8 10  3                                143  |
|Wicked | 4 14  5  8  4  4  5  8 12 12  8 10 13  4 13  3  6  9  7  4                                153  |
|Havoc  |12 13  6  3  7  3 16 10 21  1 14  9  8 11  9  6  7 14  9 11                                190  |
|-------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Xmas 91| 8  9                                                                                       17  |
|Xmas 92| 1  1 17 14                                                                                 33  |
|Flurry | 4  2  1  2  1  2  2 10  3  9  3  3  2  3  1  6                                             54  |
|Blitz  |13 11  1  2  9  1  5  3 20  3 10  2 11  2 14  4                                            111  |
|Frost  | 5  3  5  2  2  5  7  1  3  5  3  6  1  5  5  5                                             63  |
|Hail   | 5  4 23  4 15  0 14  8 10  6  7  6  6 20  3 11                                            142  |
|-------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Rating | 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Total |
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Totals
Lemmings: 865 (7.21 per level)
Oh No! More Lemmings: 644 (6.44 per level)
Holiday Lemmings: 420 (6.00 per level)

Overall: 1929 (6.65 per level)

Following on from discussions in the latest iteration of the challenge thread, it looks like the time has come to share our knowledge of glitches, rather than keeping them to ourselves. My reasoning is as follows: By now, most if not all of the glitches in the original Lemmings game (at least on DOS/Amiga) have been discovered. Most people know some of them, and a lucky few (I include myself as a recent addition to this category) are aware of pretty much all of them. Not only does this mean that some of us can build levels or invent challenges that can't be solved without this knowledge, but (IMHO more importantly) designers continue to build levels that are rendered almost trivial by some glitch or other. As such, I would like to compile a list of all the known glitches in the Lemmings games, including different ports and also sequels. Perhaps the sequels could have their own threads - we'll see how this works out.

How do we define a glitch? I'd say the word describes any behaviour that is unexpected given a good knowledge of the basic game mechanics - i.e. something the original designers wouldn't have known about. This definition probably isn't watertight, but we can decide on a case-by-case basis what is a glitch and what isn't.

Feel free to discuss anything glitch-related too - this sort of discussion has been sorely lacking in the past.

I'll start with some that have been posted before.


DOS/Amiga Lemmings

• Giant Leap - Jumper lemming climbs up through a wall after the gap it was about to jump into is closed up by a builder
• Blocker pushing lemmings through a wall
• Nuke glitch - When you nuke the level the game calculates your percentage based on the number of lemmings that have entered the level, rather than the total number in the level
• Miner falling through terrain while leaving it intact
• Climbing up when stuck inside terrain
• Miner crossing 1-pixel gaps
• Climber comes away from the wall slightly when it hits a ceiling and falls
• Blockers make steel areas destructible
• Climbers transition to walkers for one frame when the terrain they are climbing on is removed - you can then make them build in mid-air
• Right one-way walls cannot be mined
• Various steel-destruction glitches where the terrain that the lemming tries to destroy is not part of the steel area. EXAMPLE: Top 7 rows of a steel area can be bashed through - this includes the top of the level and in fact cannot be prevented by better placement in this case

I just found this site - a functional (though not very informative) Lemmings wiki.

Would it be worthwhile to contribute to this, or try to create something like it? Do you guys like the wiki style?

EDIT: This thread has been changed to open review. The level review game thread can be found here. I'll leave the rules in this post for reference.

Yes, your levels are subject to criticism  . This was just starting to gain momentum on the old forum, so we can't just stop it now!


RULES for review game format:

1. You may only review ONE level at a time. Levels are to be reviewed in sequence from the chosen levelpack.
2. The same pack cannot be done more than once.
3. You cannot review one of your own levels.
4. You cannot do two or more levelpacks by the same author in a row.
5. The same person cannot review two levels in a row - that includes across packs!.

The review format is as follows:

Levelpack name - Level # - TITLE
PICTURE - these are available from the Lemmings File Archive
Lemmings
Lemmings Required (% required)
Release rate
Time
Skills
Good - Glowing praise for the level goes in this section.
Bad - Enter your damning criticisms here


Continuing from the old thread, the next level is:
elfpak01 level 3 - Gyps Isles

I did the last review, so it's time for someone else to step up to the plate. Let's Go!

Inspired by the old challenge thread, I have come up with some new challenges, based on the original (DOS) levels.

MAJOR EDIT: I have compiled my challenges together in this post so you don't have to trawl through the whole thread to find them

POINTS TO NOTE:
- These challenges are intended for DOS Lemmings (NOT the corrected version - sorry) and Lemmix. Other versions may be impossible (or too easy ).
- All challenges require 100% unless otherwise stated. In some cases it is VERY difficult to get the last few %.
- A (*) means the skills mentioned are just restrictions. You can use any other skills, within the limitations of the original level.
- You can't use more of a given skill than the original level has available.
- For pairs of levels with the same map but different stats, try to find one solution that works for both
- Many of these challenges require use of glitches.
- Custlemm splat height is not allowed (except Tame challenges).
- Timed challenges don't account for the glitch with pausing at the start (which doesn't work in Lemmix anyways).


THE CHALLENGES! Recently added challenges in bold.

GENERAL CHALLENGES: Any challenges that don't fit into the other categories.

Fun 8 - bashers and diggers only, or bashers and miners only.
Fun 20 - 1 builder. * (Extra challenge - 1 builder, no climbers, 1 minute*)
Fun 24 - 4 builders.
Tricky 24 - 2 builders, 1 minute. *
Tricky 28 - 98%, no terrain-destruction skills
Tricky 30 - 8 builders, 4 miners.
Taxing 8 - 3 builders. *
Taxing 12 - 2 builders. *
Taxing 26 - 5 builders. *
Mayhem 11 - 9 diggers. (Alternatively: Taxing 30 - 7 diggers, 1 minute)
Mayhem 13 - 1 builder. *
Crazy 12 - 2 builders. *
Crazy 13 - 95% (19/20) , no climbers or floaters. *
Crazy 15 - Pass the level going via the platform on the lower right.
Blitz 8 - Get everyone to the exit on the right.


BUILDER ONLY CHALLENGES: Other skills? Who needs 'em?

Fun 9/Tricky 26
Fun 10
Fun 16/Taxing 3
Fun 20
Fun 27
Tricky 6/Taxing 10
Taxing 15
Mayhem 18
Wild 3 - 66/80 (82%) (NOTE - elsewhere in the thread I said 65/80)
Wicked 13
Wicked 17
Wicked 18 (Extra challenge - 12 builders)
Frost 9
Blitz 10


NO BUILDER CHALLENGES: The tables have turned. How well can you do without that most valuable of tools?

Fun 26
Fun 29
Crazy 9
Flurry 9
Flurry 12
Blitz 15 - 10/15 (66%)
Frost 3
Hail 4 - 79/80 (98%)
Hail 15


TAME CHALLENGES: Based on the first 20 maps of ONML. Not so tame any more!
Challenge versions for Custlemm/Lemmix can be downloaded here (1-10) and here (11-20).

1 - 2 builders, 1 digger.
2 - 98%, 5 miners.
3 - 98%, 5 miners.
4 - 2 diggers.
5 - 1 basher, no miners or diggers. *
6 - miners only.
7 - 2 climbers, 1 blocker, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger.
8 - 20 climbers, 2 builders, 1 minute.
9 - bashers only.
10 - 1 climber, 3 miners.
11 - 96%, 1 blocker, 3 builders, 2 diggers, 1 minute.
12 - 4 builders, 1 miner, 1 minute.
13 - 3 builders, 1 minute. *
14 - 8 builders.
15 - 94%, 3 blockers, 1 basher, 1 digger.
16 - 1 builder, 1 miner.
17 - 98%, no bashers, miners or diggers. *
18 - 1 basher, no miners or diggers. *
19 - 1 of each skill.
20 - 31 seconds.


CEILING ROUTES: That terrain along the top of the level is just for decoration, right? WRONG!

Fun 15
Tricky 1
Tricky 14
Tricky 25
Taxing 11
Taxing 28 - 56/80 (70%)
Mayhem 7 - 47/50 (94%)
Mayhem 10 - 71/75 (94%)
Crazy 8


XMAS LEMMINGS RECORDS: We've had Lemmings and ONML records. These are mentioned purely for the sake of completeness. Most of these aren't challenges at all, but some (including some of the 100% records) are challenge-worthy.

'91 3 (= Crazy 14) - lose 2
Flurry 16 - lose 1
Blitz 12 - lose 1
Blitz 15 - lose 5
Blitz 16 - lose 2
Frost - 6 - lose 1
Frost 14 - lose 6
Hail 2 - lose 4
Hail 6 - lose 40 (PLEASE do not try to improve on this unless you can set up some sort of computer simulation. It's pointless.)


If you have your own challenges, be sure to check the old thread first (a quick ctrl-f search should be enough) to see if your challenge has been beaten before.

You know how, when a group of lemmings falls into a pit 1 pixel wide (like in "Lock up your Lemmings"/"All or Nothing"), they kind of 'fuse' together and you get a whole lot of them in one spot? Well, you'd think that it would be pretty hard to separate them again, short of giving one of them a skill to get it out of the group, right?

Turns out that's not quite true. When you get another lemming from the outside to bash through this pit to release the trapped lemmings, sometimes (not every time, but most) the fused lemmings split up into two groups Sometimes, only one lemming gets separated, but I have seen up to 12 lemmings in the smaller group, and I suspect many more could be possible. Also, they can end up anywhere from 1 pixel to about two 'lemming widths' apart.

I noticed this in a newly created level of mine (in Lemmix and Custlemm) and also in the aforementioned levels in DOS lemmings.

Can anyone explain what is going on here? I for one am totally stumped.