Thanks, IchoTolot; I still don't get either how people can make the case that the Fencer were supefluous. But I know there are a couple of them.

Regarding "making a dent into the ceiling to make a Shimmier fall": Yes, this was one of the things we thought projectile skills could do. Of course, a vertical Laser Blaster (or near-vertical) could accomplish the same thing.

I'd support three different options, all of which would have different uses:
- a completely vertical Laser Blaster like in L2 (but this is represented by the red line, so as far as I understood namida, it's already ruled out)
- a 6:1 ratio, i.e. the maximum vertical gain at the shortest horizontal distance that is still Walker-friendly
- a 45 degree angle, i.e. a 1:1 ratio

So nothing in between (5:1, 4:1 etc.), since this would just unnecessarily flatten the angle of the tunnel and make it more similar to that of the Fencer, but not enough to make it usable for Shimmiers.

I certainly appreciate IchoTolot's support for the Laser Blaster, especially since it now sounds like he might be favouring it over the projectile skills?

My question would indeed also be whether the pink trajectory would be 45° and therefore Shimmier-compatible.

This might make the Laser Blaster more similar to the Fencer in some cases, if it's applied at a close distance. Note that the Fencer tunnel is Shimmier-friendly as far as its angle is concerned; it's just too narrow on its own. However, by sending a Basher down a Fencer tunnel (which he will automatically do because of the Basher's sloping behaviour), you can widen the tunnel enough for a Shimmier to pass all the way through. A Laser Blaster with a 45° angle could potentially accomplish this on its own.

Therefore, I think we would want to try and prevent a Laser Blaster from acting just like a Fencer if you assign it e.g. with a lemming right next to a wall. The terrain destruction should definitely not start "in front" of the lemming and then simply be extrapolated until it hits a ceiling. In other words, it should not be that easy for a Laser Blaster to just go on and walk up into his own tunnel.

Instead, if the Laser Blaster held his cannon above his head, then the lowest altitude at which the tunnel could start would be 9 pixels above the ground, i.e. 1 pixel above the lemming's head - therefore too high for a regular Walker to just walk up from the ground. Instead, at least one Builder would be required to make it up to the entrance of the Laser Blaster tunnel.

No Logo for me, please! The default should be as close to original Lemmings as possible.

If I want such additions (as in Lemmings 3D), I'll just customise the background for a specific pack myself.

Okay, here's a quick assessment of IchoTolot's solutions for the final two ranks:

For Encore, as I was hoping for (but not really expecting, so this was still a pleasant surprise), there were pretty much no backroutes. This is most likely because the levels are taken from older packs, i.e. they have been out for ages, and any one of them that contained backroutes was broken and consequently fixed long ago. The only exception is maybe the level "Twilems", where IchoTolot managed to solve the level in a pretty straightforward way using Platformers, instead of the slightly more obscure intended solution. Maybe I can enforce this... maybe I can't.

Groupie, on the other hand, of course had many more backroutes, because IchoTolot was probably the first one to play the entire rank. Most other people, at least that's how it seemed to me, mainly focused on finding out which level had been dedicated to them, and then they "left". Or, if they did play the entire rank in an effort to find out which levels were theirs, they didn't upload their replays except for those select few which they considered potentially dedicated to them.

Thus, there were quite a few Groupie levels that managed to completely enforce their intended tricks...
...some that didn't enforce the intended signature trick, but still featured nice alternative solutions...
...and some which utterly failed to enforce their intended tricks.

"Killed by death" is the easiest fix of them all, because it had the most glaring backroute - glaring backroutes are usually easier to fix than complex alternative solutions.

IchoTolot's solution for "Kiwi nights in white satin" blew me away with some completely new trick I wasn't aware of at all .

This doesn't happen to be another chance to introduce customisable backgrounds for the level preview screen, does it?

I'm referring to a Lemmings 3D-like level-by-level variation of the preview screen background, by simply making the background of the level preview screen another property of each individual level text file that you can add (like the music, or the background of the level itself).

This way, you could, for example, have different level preview screen backgrounds for each tileset, or even present a different image on every single level preview screen, by just adding a line referencing the .png image file in the text file of the level.

I know it wasn't something that a lot of people said they would use back when you put up a poll about it - but there didn't seem to be any opposition to it either. And as far as I recall, you said it wouldn't be too much work to implement it. Thus, if you're now ready to modify all kinds of stuff about the level preview screen anyway... maybe this would be a nice additional feature to have?

Also, we've had some new forum members join in the meantime, after the poll on this particular feature had already been closed. So maybe there's more demand for it now?

No, no, I'm going in as a patient, but don't worry, I've had this procedure several times this year already. It's more or less a prophylactic thing. I've also had it done ambulantly once, but usually they want to keep you there for one night to be on the safe side.

I just hope the hospital doesn't regard this as a "new source of income" so that they keep inviting me back in after short intervals...

I'm a little torn on this "one line vs. two lines" thing.

- The nostalgia factor would be greater for me with all the menu signs in one line - I used to play Lemmings predominantly on Mac in my childhood, until i discovered the Atari version, which included an additional menu sign (2 player mode), but they were still all in one line.
- I also had some contact with the DOS version back then; I liked that some of my favourite tracks came earlier in the game with the DOS music rotation. Also, everything was larger, filling up more of the screen. I somehow remember most of the tileset graphics as darker than they are now in NeoLemmix, though. But anyways, thanks to the DOS version, of course I also remember the two-line menu screen.
- My father was (and is) an avid Mac user, so he used to trash-talk the DOS version of Lemmings a lot. It did come with quite a few downsides, admittedly, such as no fast forward and no option of selecting skills in pause mode. Also, the sounds used for music and in-game sounds were much more muffled than on Mac. The Atari instrumentation I remembered as on-par with Mac; I was quite shocked to hear how terrible some of those Atari tunes sounded when I listened to them again recently.

In NeoLemmix, I'm very much used to the two-lines screen now, so changing it up would feel weird. Also, NeoLemmix graphics are taken from the DOS version (even though, as I said above, I remember many of the DOS tiles as darker). The Mac version also always had the green background, not the red-brown one which is currently the default.

In short: If everything else in NeoLemmix looks like in the DOS version (at least by default), I think the default menu should also continue to look like the DOS version, i.e. two lines.

Of course, for some cases, having them all in one line would be nice - not just for emulating Lemmings on Mac or Atari, but e.g. also for emulating Lemmings 3D (as I'm going to do with "Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll"), where the signs are also all in one line.



I guess you can already see it coming, but... any way to make the menu design optional? Like something you can switch in the settings menu, e.g. between "Mac view" and "DOS view"?

We've already had features for switching between Mac-style and other music rotations - and music rotation even became completely customisable in the end. Of course, that's easier to do with something that can be arranged in a list, like music tracks and levels.

The NXP-Converter pretty certainly won't work, indeed.

You might be able to do a step-by-step conversion manually. If I want to convert one of my Lemmicks levels to the newest version of New Formats, I have to open the level in the latest Old-Formats editor (10.13) first, save it, then open that file in an early editor of New Formats (e.g. 12.6.5), save that one, then open the New-Formats file in the newest editor (12.9). Doesn't sound like much fun though to do that manually for every single level.

Also, I remember playing GigaLems in version 1.43 - which, among others, had no clear-physics mode - so any instance of a hidden trap or exit caused real, actual trouble. And if I get annoyed by those things, that means something, since I have quite a bit of tolerance for them. When GigaLem was a guest on Arty's LP of SEB Lems, he even mentioned himself that he made IchoTolot ragequit with this pack. As far as I understood his comments in that LP video, he has moved on from hidden objects and is now quite a strong opponent of them. (Arty argued in the LP that the existence of clear-physics mode makes them more tolerable now than back in 1.43, but GigaLem said you shouldn't have to use CPM in the first place, which is a position a lot of NeoLemmix players share.)

Thus, I assume GigaLem's view on this early pack of his is a similar to the one I have on my own first pack (Paralems) - which I'm not planning to convert either, except for a few select levels.

In short, I wouldn't hold my breath for this pack being converted . Even though I did enjoy some of the puzzles very much and would be happy to see them brought back in a New-Formats pack. Maybe as an additional rank (like the MegSEBytes rank in SEB Lems), or as a selection, like in Lemmings Redux.



@GigaLem: I hope I did not misunderstand and consequently misrepresent your position here, so please correct me if I got anything wrong.