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Messages - geoo

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1486
Lemmings Main / Re: Showing Extended graphics terrain in Lemedit
« on: September 04, 2005, 06:09:20 PM »
You should see it in the jLemmings topic now.

I sometimes use to write texts in the text editor and just copy them into the reply field (and this time it was the wrong one).

1487
Lemmings Main / Re: jLemmings (disappointing)
« on: September 04, 2005, 05:53:30 PM »
 Well, for the exits, I don't like the ones for the Classic/Colums and the Crystal style. I really prefer the original for those.

I general, I hope the music gets ready as soon as possible since I want to use your styles; the only changed style of Cheapo that wasn't that bad was the Fire style (except the objects, which were really bad). The Classic/Colums style in cheapo have a totally different feeling, for the Crystal one I dislike the missing contrast, and the pink is really bad.
(I don't really care about the dirt one since I also don't like the original too much, but the cheapo one causes also a different feeling).

That's my opinion.
(About jLemmings I think I don't need to say anything.)

(Note: this should be right topic now ;))

1488
Lemmings Main / Re: Showing Extended graphics terrain in Lemedit
« on: September 04, 2005, 05:52:07 PM »
Quote from: Shvegait  link=1125844755/0#2 date=1125846235
I have a feeling you post in the wrong topic, geoo ;)
Oops...let's try whether removing posts work ;)

EDIT: It does. ;)

1489
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: September 04, 2005, 09:10:59 AM »
Let's continue this procedure...
http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/g0s09-6.zip

1490
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: September 03, 2005, 06:05:44 PM »
Umm...yes. Well, I'm used to this procedure from Supaplex.

Next version: http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/g0s09-5.zip

1491
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: September 03, 2005, 02:51:43 PM »
I PMed you about this.

Also, the replacement for level 4 is ready:
http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/g0s04-2.zip

1492
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: September 02, 2005, 07:04:02 PM »
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I haven't tried the update on Level 10 yet, but I did want to comment that your modifications to Level 5 haven't eliminated my backroute. But, I will tell you that it just barely works, and shifting up that bottom bar by one pixel (two to be safe) should be sufficient. As it is now, the lemming just barely hits his head, letting it turn around with 2 spare builders, which just barely go high (and far) enough that the lemmings can hit the left wall safely.

Yes, that's certainly easy to fix. I just didn't notice that you could get high enough with the 2 builders left, which is obviously possible. X_X Thanks.
http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/g0s09-4.zip

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That's interesting that the Level 10 solution wasn't want you intended, but it's a nice (although perhaps sloppy) trick, don't you think? Two levels for the price of one :P

Surely. ;) Although, I think, the intended way is even a bit more original.
But I want to say, I won't release the version eliminating my way for now since the changes would certainly give a further hint what to do.

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I'm also confused about geoo89's comments about Shvegait's backroute.  The new level with the barrel added in fixes the backroute, correct?

Yes, it does (at least I'm quite sure). If not, Shvegait would use the same way for the changed level (but that should be impossible).

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Hmm, good news actually.  It turns out that if you make the last step at least 8 pixels, that alone will actually eliminate more solutions than you expected.  It certainly, for example, eliminates all the solutions I presented you so far, timing or no-timing.

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So if you are willing to leave the "infamous" solution in, you could also now choose to leave the no-timing solutions in, as long as you make the last step 8 or more pixels high, so that the easier no-timing solutions are eliminated.

Yes, I'm going to leave it in. With 'no-timing solutions' you mean solutions using elements of your infamous one?
So, making the last step 9 (or 8 ) px high would eliminate all backdoors easier than my way not using elements of your infamous solution?

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Finally, because no-timing now seems to force the use of the other trick, you can eliminate pretty much everything but your own solution and a variation of my infamous solution if you make the second-to-last step wider (by 4 pixels or so, I need to test it out).  That prevents the other trick from working.  My infamous solution will not be affected by that change, but can be eliminated if you make the height of the last step at least 9 pixels rather than just 8.
 
Um, your thoughts?
Well, I don't know since making one step wider would break the style of the level. However it would be a solution.
Strangely, I feel anyhow I want to keep your infamous solution in. ;) Eliminating variations sounds good since I think your original 'infamous' solution is the most original/hardest to find.
What's your opinion?

At last I want to say, if you're hoing to present a level using your 'infamous solution' trick, you can use this level as base if you want.

And just a little question about the walker/climber problem: I wonder why you didn't try it out in front of the first 7-pixel step (after passing the 6 px one) :???: (Perhaps you just tried it once and concerned it as impossible immediately?)

1493
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: September 01, 2005, 07:05:46 PM »
Ok, 9 is done; actually I also tried out the steel sprites of original lemmings to compare which looking better, but I accidentaly overwrote the level and so it's now as you said. I think I don't need to upload it for now.
Hopefully final version of level 8 is here: http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/g0s10-2.zip
Level 5: http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/g0s09-3.zip
Since Insane Steve mentioned another backroute for this level, I don't know whether it still works.

Level 2: I misunderstood you Shvegait. However, Although your (and ccexplore's) way are a little different to mine, the main idea is involved.

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Interestingly, I now want to play the original LemEdit version of this level.  Beside the obvious safe-fall distance changes, there are one or two other places where the Cheapo setup doesn't (according to my knowledge of the game mechanics) quite work exactly in LemEdit, so I am curious to see how exactly the LemEdit version was laid out.  Or perhaps a few of the differences cancel each other out.
You can download the Lemedit set here: http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=level_id;action=display;num=1089136533;start=120
I don't know whether I checked the Level in WinLemm, CustLemm or Original Lemmings, but with a max-safe fall distance of 63px it must be possible, and with 60px probably too.
Also, the terrain was quite a bit different, so, there may be backdoors which don't exist in cheapo.
(If you play the other levels in the set, note that level 1 and 2 are only possible in WinLem. Also, I made two or three more CustLemm levels, one remade in Cheapo if I remember correctly, and one only WinLem compatible; if you wan't, I'll also upload them)

Now to level 10. The solution Shvegait found is, surprisingly, a backdoor. Although I pulled the solution off quite quickly following his way, I think I'll keep the level in that way since it took very long until the level had been solved in general; and make my solution impossible.
But, I'll release a level with a slight modification (in fact, I just put in a barrel) as a new level: http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/g0s11.zip
Please tell me what you think about that.

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The other one is just to test something out, and well, let's just say it proves that the solution is not that obvious.
 
Oddly, I'm far from using all of the skills, which obviously makes me think that I'm probably not going about this in the correct way at all.  But the other skills haven't revealed their secrets/usefulness to me yet.  Ah well, I guess it'll be a matter of time.
My solution is not obvious too (but I think you should know that). About the skills: Most of the skills are used. Just a very few are left over.

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Let me look at the level again later tonight.  The fact that you are talking about making some of the steps 8-pixel tall should help me figure out what you intended solution is, so that I can determine what level of details to discuss with you.  I just need to make sure what I'm thinking works with the modification.
To avoid another delay of one day, I send you my solution right now, in Wingdings, if you don't want to read it but have to look up your IM box.
(However, I'm quite certain that you'll find it out quickly by yourself.)
Also, I upload the .lev file to make it easier for you to edit the level for testing.
My only problem are the non-timing solution (except your 'infamous' way of course), the other solutions are not so problematic (although my solution might be a bit more difficult than other timing solutions).
About your suggested ways to fix it:
4) would be a possibility, although it would destroy the look of the level a bit.
Your other suggestions are (except #2) both exactly one pixel (for #3 maybe two, but because of the same problem you mentioned: "assuming the timing works out perfectly" not so different) to high which makes me suppose that there are some similarities between this and my solution.

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I figure I should comment on geoo's pack, seeing how the design style is being compared to mine. (Yes, I do see the preference for straight terrain, and the level style built around incorporating one of two clever tricks into a level and designing the terrain to fit these tricks.)
 
Very nicely done levels so far. Being in college, I've not played them as thoroughly as I'd like, but I did enjoy what I played.
[...]
Overall, though, very well made. I'll comment more when I have the time to play them a bit more.
Thank you. I enjoy playing your levels too; perhaps they also inspired my a bit. E.g. the idea for level ten I got playing one of your levels (actually one of those I consider as hardest), which, in fact, I still haven't solved yet. Also my idea for the new level replacing #4 I got playing one of your levels (one of the "Difficult" set, which I later solved a different way since my old didn't work). I just need to build a level around this trick.

1494
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: August 31, 2005, 07:27:21 PM »
Quote
I still haven't managed Level 8, but I think I may have found the CustLemm solution. Does it have to do with blockers that continue blocking when they go into bomber animations? Actually, I'm not even sure if my solution would work then, but it might. I've managed to save 17/20 using a route that ignores the left side of the level, but I'm not sure if 18/20 is possible this way.
No, it isn't that.
Also, note that the modified version which I didn't release yet has a RR of 99 and a little other change.
Actually nothing has changed to my solution, but I want to check it again though.
So, I'll upload it tomorrow if you want.

Level 2:
Isu, yes, you're right.
I wonder What you did, Shvegait, since I see absolutely no way for needing all skills.
Could you, and Isu, PM me the main idea, please?
And your main idea for level 10?
I think it's correct, but I never know...

About 5, I'll see...

1495
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: August 31, 2005, 04:01:55 PM »
Sorry for the late reply, but I had not enough time yesterday. :(

Let's start with level 5 (Shvegait).
The backdoor you found is not hard to close. Also, I edited a little to prevent the possibilities to do some other tasks which could be used for more backdoors.
However, I'm still not sure about alternative ways.
For the new level, see here @everyone:
http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/g0s09-2.zip
I'd say, if without backdoors, it is harder, or since I maybe underestimate #2, about as difficult as #2.

Also, have you already made a decision for the steelblocks for level 9?

-----

Now level 8 (ccexplore):
The way you told me per PM is, you're right, the intended one.
Also, the backroute you found is, as you said, easy to close; the one I found too.
If you didn't find it yet I can PM you if you are interested.
About the trick, see PM.

Level 7:
Also here you're right with the intended solution. I did it just a slightly different which caused that I only could save 22/25. Mine is a bit harder and I could avoid yours making the last step 8 pixels high, but maybe I accept it too.
Your 'infamous' first non-timing solution, whatever it is, will of course keep (if I don't make it impossible accidentaly).
Now, solution #4.
I think it would be possible to avoid this way increasing the height of the first or third 7-pixel step by one. And I'd prefer ... - 6 - 7 - 8 - 7, not ... - 6 - 8 - 7 - 7.
But I don't know whether #3 with the advantages would make the backroute possible still.

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Nah.  It's probably just the "creator's blind eye".  ;) When you create a level with a particular solution in mind, you tend to overlook other ones, especially contorted ones that a struggling mind conjures from the depths of, um, something.  ;P Remember, I'm still stumped by your level 2 which you believe should be easy.
Well, yes, that might be another aspect.

-----

For level 4, I actually had a level idea for replace, but it turned out that this wasn't possible. So I have to think of something different.


Thanks you two for your help.  :thumbsup:

1496
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: August 29, 2005, 07:17:34 PM »
Hmm, then the backdoor I found is another one (quite simple though).
Could you tell me in brief what you did to solve levels 7 & 8, please?
Since you're much better than me it surely would take me ages to find your solutions...

Also, I'm sure now to kick off the miner puzzle part two since my solution has no real puzzle character and Shvegait found a solution which is nothing special at all as he says (Although I didn't find it yet, as I said, I use to miss the obvious X_X).
Just to make sure, you used Havoc 5 trick twice in part one?
And, could you please send me your solution for level 5 @ Shvegait?

Thanks in advance.

1497
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: August 29, 2005, 04:07:46 PM »
(L9) Hmm, seems that I miss the obvious.
However, I think it's obvious how to colse the backdoor here.
Since you don't like 'fake-steel', I prepared an image with two
different looks for the steel blocks.
Feel free to choose one ;) : http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/steel.PNG

(L8 ) @ccexplore: would a 12 pixel block on the ground right to the very left bottom
staircase make you solution impossible?

1498
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: August 28, 2005, 05:45:42 PM »
[...]continuing from above


Quote
This level is a LemEdit remake. Maybe the differences render the intentional solution impossible? I have absolutely no ideas for that level anymore, since you seem to need both bombers to bomb through just one area... hmm...
The "Nothing special at all" in the level description implies that it's not intended to be all that difficult or use clever tricks... I don't know.
Well, maybe I underestimated the difficulty of the level, but I thought the way wouldn't be too hard to find out. At least it is surely solvable, I checked.
[May include spoiler]Also, it seemed easy to execute when I decided the position in the set, but when I checked it now again, it appeared to need some exact precision, mainly because of the floor.

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I've also gotten #8 now (still haven't read any hints yet).  Turns out I was making it more complicated than it actually needs be.  I'm not sure I'd really call anything there a trick, but neat level nonetheless.
I'm curious whether your solution is a backroute. Can you tell me, please?

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Oh. I just passed Level 9. Generally I tend to give up quickly on levels that have fake steel, even if they actually have easy solutions. (I made the silly assumption that the whole top platform was steel.) I don't care if there are steel areas on non-steel terrain (and vice-versa) if it is
obvious where they are or there are clues as to what might be what, but otherwise I'm just skipping your level, sorry  >:(
Well, I wonder, when you said you thought the whole top platform would be steel, whether it matters for your solution. For mine, it doesn't matter whether the whole or only part of the platform are steel.
If it does, I wonder what your solution could be.
Anyway, I think I'll mark the steel somehow.


Finally, I still think level 10 is harder than level 2.
You backdoored quite a lot of my levels.
Since school is starting again tomorrow, updating the levels will progress only slowly and making new

ones will take even more time than up to now, when I needed over three weeks for 10 levels (Ok, I didn't try to be so quick, but still). Thanks for playing my levels.

1499
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: August 28, 2005, 05:45:13 PM »
Quote from: Isu  link=1089162351/555#566 date=1124495240
I've only got to level 2, and I've glanced at the rest of the levels (Except 9, I think you know why ;)). Some very good levels there, It's way better than my first pack (Isulemms, see sig).
 
I'm hoping to release the second part of my Style Trial on Thursday. I have about 18 levels for that so far (48 total). Only seven more to go!
And I think I've neglected the readme/walkthrough for it for far too long.
Thanks, I played Isulemms a bit some time ago and I think trey're not bad; just some levels are a bit too large to my taste. For now, I played Insane Steve's levels very much and just a few levels of other sets. I played Style Trial I (I think you should know since I mentioned the backdoor for Lemmings' Ark; I now also play some genesis levels emulated and I think the backdoor might be possible too, I did a few sketches), and I quite like most of the levels.

Writing walkthroughs is also a little bad, I only wrote 4/10 for my levels. ;)

Quote from: Shvegait  link=1089162351/555#567 date=1124507622
Nice levels, geoo! Your style seems strangely similar to Insane Steve's, with the preference for straight edges and with odd time limits for most levels. I wonder what makes those two traits go together, they seem contradictory :P
Thanks.
Yes, I also noticed this similarity. I simply prefer straigt edges; therefore I also like Insane Steve's levels.
For the time limit and the RR, I just typed in what I felt like, however with intension, as long as it matched to the level at all. ;)

"Little miner puzzle (part two)" was actually using a backdoor I quite liked I found playing an older version of the level. (I assume you used the trick one miner stops the other one)
However, I'll maybe kick it off and set another one there using this trick as element.

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For Level 5, I managed to save 22/23. If the maximum possible is supposed to be 21, I'll PM you my solution. I actually solved it accidentally  X_X (Trying to do one thing, and yet something better happened from it.)
Yes, I checked it for backdoors, but I couldn't get sure that everything had to be solved in the intended  way.
The maximum is 21, please tell me your solution (and the "trying to do one thing" solution too, if it works).

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For Level 6, my solution does not exactly match your hints (might be close though, I don't know), but it seems like the level is rather open, with various options for tools and a somewhat generous number to save, so this should not be surprising. Plus, there are so many ways to deal with the trap at the end...

I just noticed the ridiculously easy backdoor to trap the lemmings right at the beginning X_X
Well, I'll try to fix this. But if you found other ways than that, please just tell me which of the skills basher, miner and digger you definately need to execute your solution, both Shvegait and guest/ccexplore.

Quote from: ccexplore (not logged in)  link=1089162351/555#568 date=1124542614
Some tricky levels indeed.  I did manage to get #7 (actually a 23/25 there) and #9 though, of the ones you mentioned above.  (9 is not very interesting by the way......)  #2 is especially making me go  ":???:".

So far I've not read any of the hints.  Hopefully it'll stay that way.  :-/
The nineth level's position is deliberately overestimated; first, and mainly, because I made it as 9th level and released it as g0s08.lev. So I didn't want to change the name. Now, I'll just keep the level file's names in the order I made them, and rearrange them in the set, also it might be a bit confusing.

For level 7, I absolutely can't imagine a 23/25 solution without timing, as you said.
Can you give me an explaination (or screenshot) of you solution please?

[...]

1500
Levels for other engines / Re: Cheapo Level Pak topic
« on: August 19, 2005, 08:44:44 PM »
I got 10 Cheapo levels ready right now to put them together to part 1 of 2 of my first set.

The file can be downloaded here: http://de.geocities.com/geoo89/gSet00.zip

Half of them use the brick style, sorry for that. I just realized that when I put my levels together. When I edited I put my ideas into levels, and the brick style seems to have matched often.
However, I'm going to make more levels in the ISWorld style, I didn't even used it once for now. :(

In general, my levels are quite short but tricky, and I prefer straight terrain.
Also, I tried to assort them by difficulty in my set.

Three of the levels are LemEdit remakes, but one or two of them haven't been released for LemEdit yet.

If you find a solution for any level which doesn't match with the hints, or if you find a solution which is in no way tricky, can you tell me please? (Exspecially for level 5 and 6) And also, if you solve level 10?

To contact me, or for suggestions, feedback, reqests for solutions, (or an idea for a level name for level 10 ;)), PM (IM) me or preferably e-mail: geoo89(ad)gmail(dod)com
Please note that I'll be away until Aug. 28th, so expect no response until then.
Thanks

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