Lemmings Forums
NeoLemmix => Bugs & Suggestions => Closed => Topic started by: IchoTolot on December 09, 2020, 11:53:15 PM
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If you let a slider slide down a wall and the wall just ends close the the floor, he won't turn around into the little wall gap actually and just walk on. Visualization: See attachment.
Is this intended or a bug? ??? I would have expected him to go to the left in the attached example level.
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It looks to me like it's because he doesn't transition to a faller (or rather his feet check the ground before his hands check the bottom edge of the wall), and so he is still facing away from the wall.
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^ That was my guess from just reading the report, too (I haven't actually looked at the level yet).
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After actually looking at this, I could see valid arguments for either behavior. My personal preference is the existing behavior. What does everyone else think?
Reclassified this from "bug" to "discussion" accordingly.
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Okay, I've looked at it, and the logic seems to be "if the Slider can 'dangle' from the ceiling, he will keep going in the direction he was facing while sliding; if not, he will turn around".
So the question the player would have to ask themselves is: "Is this gap high enough so that the Slider could transition into a Shimmier?"
In this case, the answer is no, because the Shimmier would turn into a Walker right away, due to his feet touching the ground. Therefore, one could argue the Slider's feet touch the ground immediately as well, as soon as he reaches the bottom of his slide. Therefore, he turns around even though there is a small gap he could walk into.
Therefore, I'm fine with the current behaviour, too.
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+1 for current behaviour, for pretty much all the reasons mentioned by Strato.
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I would be ok with that as well.
If he cannot dangle he doesn't turn and just walks along.
Be reminded though: Then you could make narrow horizontal passsges into a slider wall where the slider won't go into. As a result the lemming would then just fall after he doesn't "fit" into the passage.
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Ok, a thing that confuses me now:
If a slider shall stop and not turn when there is only a small gap in the wall he is sliding down, then why does he turn and go inside a small crack in the wall like at 37:14 in WillLems video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIgv9H3tIIs
With the previous explanation I would exapect him to not turn and simply fall down as he cannot dangle here.
Now the floor case seems to be a complete exception from the rule as a slider does indeed fit into small holes in a wall, but not into a small hole near a floor.
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Hm... perhaps what's needed is for the Slider to always have a foot check too (as even ignoring other concerns, I feel a bit iffy about how he climbs into that gap in this video). Currently there is a foot check for water, or for bottom-of-wall terrain (going away from the wall), but not for gaps in the wall - that's only a hand check.
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Just to clarify: what effect would that have on situations like the one in that level? I have no attachment at all to that particular level, but I do believe strongly that in that situation, a Slider should stop and walk into any size gap. After all, lemmings are notorious for their ability to squeeze through 1-pixel gaps, and it would be enough to stop a Climber.
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The lemming would remain able to slip into that gap, it just wouldn't first slide past it (then move back up as an ascender), instead just directly stepping into it.
Perhaps the foot check should specifically be: "If there is a nonsolid pixel, with a solid pixel immediately below it, step into the gap". The question still remains - if it is a gap at a floor, which direction should the lemming go? I still feel that either answer has valid reasons, though perhaps "walk towards (and under) the wall" has better puzzle potential...
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I concur, the lemming should walk forwards. Watching the video back, I was in fact expecting the walk-into-the-gap behaviour, so it makes sense for this to also apply to gaps at floor level (otherwise there are too many "rules" to learn).
It also keeps it consistent with "Sliders walk forwards when landing," in general.
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The other option would be:
A slider always goes into a gap inside the wall even if the gap is on floor level.
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In the next build, sliders will cleanly walk into a gap in the wall if they encounter one (provided that it is small enough that they don't become a faller due to the hand check failing first - though in this case they would still fall into the gap anyway). This applies even during the dehoister phase, and applies even if they reach a flat ground (ie: they will only walk away from the wall if the wall connects with the ground).