Lemmings Forums
Other Lemmings Projects => Levels for other engines => Topic started by: namida on February 06, 2006, 01:47:18 AM
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And there's a preview available. I've uploaded it on a website I used to use for joke sites:
http://hhsppl.freespaces.com/ [Edit: Full version released]
There are the 4 training levels, plus 7 other levels. Also included are a list of maximum saveable amount on each level, and solutions to all but one level (the hardest level doesn't have a solution included, but it IS POSSIBLE).
Full version:
Four different difficulties - Daigoro, Kozuka, Wakizashi, Zanmato. Each with 20 levels. There are 5 training levels - 4 in Daigoro, and 1 in Kozuka(well, technically it's not really a training level, but I consider it one - "Advanced Blocking"). There are a total of 80 levels, 3 of which use copy/pasted graphics ("Sunrise", "Sunrise II" and "Sunset", in Kozuka, Wakizashi and Zanmato respectively). Also included are two bonus packs, one containing versions of 21 of the levels with more tools given, less lemmings requried, more time given, and lower release rates (just for fun or strategizing), and a pack containing the two levels which were made for LP3 but were never released in the final release. Have fun with them.
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Sunrise, are you Steaver or related with him (friend, brother...)?
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He is Steaver.
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And this is something like his fourth username.
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He is Steaver.
whos Steaver? :-/
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An old member of the forum. His username used to be Streetlight Administrator, I never did work out why people called him Steaver.
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An old member of the forum. His username used to be Streetlight Administrator, I never did work out why people called him Steaver.
His very first, original username before anything else, was "Steaver370". At that age, he was an ... interesting... person, who also made several well-designed and difficult levels. From what I've seen, he's matured a fair bit since the first time we've seen him.
I cannot find the styles for this set on the website, though.
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An old member of the forum. His username used to be Streetlight Administrator, I never did work out why people called him Steaver.
His very first, original username before anything else, was "Steaver370". At that age, he was an ... interesting... person, who also made several well-designed and difficult levels. From what I've seen, he's matured a fair bit since the first time we've seen him.
I cannot find the styles for this set on the website, though.
but for some reason his name "Steaver370" isn't in the members list.
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but for some reason his name "Steaver370" isn't in the members list.
Maybe he re-named it from "Steaver370" to "Streetlight administrator" . I don't know why he made another username called Sunrise.
He also made some levels for Custlemm which were interesting.
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I used that name on the old forum. On this one, my name was 370, which I then renamed(not created a new account) to Streetlight Admnistrator. (the missing i was because it wouldn't allow me otherwise).
I created this new name since I forgot my old one.
The style files are still on Lemmings Crazy.
Now that that's out of the way, any comments? (PS: Keep an eye on that adress as I'll soon be uploading the full release)
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LP3 uploaded. Have fun.
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The zip file is empty. Re-upload?
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Hmm, it works fine for me.
It's just displayed as a text, not treated like a zip file.
For download, I used the right mouse button and option 'Save target as'.
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I do "Save target as" -- I get a .zip file named lp3full, inside of which is an empty folder named "lp3full".
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Well, somewhat strange. I'm only told when downloading that the file size is unknown, but it's almost 1 MB.
A couple of sets, styles and text files are in it.
Anyway, I uploaded it here again, does that work?
http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/lp3full.zip
Please tell me when you have downloaded it (in case it worked) that I can remove it again.
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Ok, those worked. Thanks.
I had a play of it. The levels seemed very out of order, difficulty-wise. At least, to me, the earlier levels of the 4th set were MUCH harder than the later levels. Seriously, what is 4.11 doing in set 4? Or 4.13? (Assuming, of course, I did it right. The hint insinuated that I did, although I later went to set 3 and passed the level in that set in the exact same way.)
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I've downloaded it too.
Question: are the Lemmus styles different versions from the ones I already have? I.e. do I definitely need to replace my styles with the new ones? And if I do, will it make existing levels using these styles unplayable? (I'm a bit concerned just because the file size is A LOT less, so I'm not sure if something vital has been left out accidentally.....)
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Yes. I tested the new Lemmus Styles on my old levels in my packs with them. Several of them crashed. A few simply changed musics.
Fortunately, I have the old Lemmus styles backed up, so I can still play my old levels.
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Well, that's a downer. (Fortunately I haven't replaced them yet, I was just unsure whether I need to do so.) And the other way round too -- do any of the LP3 levels crash when played with the old styles? (I've only had time to play the first five thus far.)
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I'm enjoying these levels; Level 9 was very clever!
I think I have a backroute on Level 6: first lemming climbs, digs the edge of the block, builds in between the two flamethrowers. According to the hint, this should be impossible.......
I couldn't find the 100% solutions on level 11 (didn't seem to be enough builders) or 13 (what's with the hidden metal?!?) >:(
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Some of the levels require some styles that I haven't got. Where can I download them?
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OK, I've passed the whole first set now, except for the evil Level 16 :-/
The hint for Level 19 says that it's impossible to build up through the narrow gap, which is just wrong. I had four builders left over.
As well as 11 and 13 mentioned above, I also didn't find the 100% solution on Level 20. How is it possible?
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Onto the second set, I'm halfway and I'm proud to say I've beaten Sunrise's own records three times:
Level 2 (Luck) -- 100% and my method didn't require any luck, either.
Level 3 (Advanced Blocking) -- 3 out of 5 [EDIT: make that 100%, see below]
Level 9 (Muck) -- 119 out of 200
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With it. Congratulations on the Level 9 beating. Level 2 is possible I guess. I would like to know how you acheived that on Level 3 though. (PM me if you don't wish to reveal it here)
Let me know if you acheive 100% on 4.2, as although I haven't managed to do it, I'm pretty sure it's possible. (I've marked it as imperfect as I have been unable to)
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Ok, those worked. Thanks.
I had a play of it. The levels seemed very out of order, difficulty-wise. At least, to me, the earlier levels of the 4th set were MUCH harder than the later levels. Seriously, what is 4.11 doing in set 4? Or 4.13? (Assuming, of course, I did it right. The hint insinuated that I did, although I later went to set 3 and passed the level in that set in the exact same way.)
Mimicing the original game. The early Mayhem levels were much harder than the later ones, with the exception of the ultimate level towards the end (in the case of LP3, that level is 4.17, or Level 11 IIRC in the preview).
Though if you count the bonuses, the hardest level is "Into Eternity". (from the Rejected Levels)
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I'm afraid I was being very silly last night with my 3 out of 5 on "Advanced Blocking". I went back this morning and had no problem saving all five. I won't reveal how to do that here, in case anyone else feels in the mood for a little challenge.
EDIT: 100% on 4-2 confirmed as well.
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OK, I've now done the entire second set except for Level 16 (I figure there's no point trying until I've done the easier version first!)
Some comments:
Levels 12 and 13 seemed much too easy to be in this set.
Level 14 can be solved simply by digging straight down into the exit!
Level 17 was identical to the earlier version. Why would I want to use blockers?
And I got 100% on Level 19, making that the fourth level of this set I've beaten the creator's own record on! ;D
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Last one for today: 100% on 3-5. ;) Man, that one took a lot of patience and some clever thinking! Very nice level.
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Levels from the official imperfects list. Bold levels have not had any higher acheivements than the original. Italics have been improved on but 100% has still not been acheived.
Daigoro:
Level 1 - Block Blow Go (Save 16 of 20) <original>
Kozuka:
Level 2 - Luck (Save 10 of 10) [[Ahribar]]
Level 3 - Advanced Blocking (Save 5 of 5) [[Ahribar]]
Level 4 - Forgotten Dream (Save 50 of 50) &#A0;[[Sunrise]]
Level 9 - Muck (Save 123 of 200) [[Ahribar]]Level 11 - F### (Save 26 of 30) <original>
Level 16 - Icy Flame (Save 48 of 50) [[Ahribar]]
Level 19 - Short Level (Save 10 of 10) [[Ahribar]]
Wakizashi:
Level 2 - Eternal Fire (Save 40 of 40) [[Ahribar]]
Level 5 - Interlocked (Save 5 of 5) [[Ahribar]]
Level 7 - Paradeath (Save 59 of 60) [[Shvegait]]
Level 9 - Lane of Lament (Save 19 of 20) <original>
Level 11 - Final Countdown (Save 77 of 80) [[Sunrise]]Level 14 - Where Are The Lemmings (Save 29 of 30) [[Ahribar]]
Level 15 - The Last Laugh (Save 72 of 80) <original>
Level 16 - The Left Or Right Puzzle (Save 35 of 40) <original>
Level 20 - This Way... (Save 97 of 100) [[Ahribar]]
Zanmato:
Level 1 - Lane of Lament (Save 20 of 20) [[Ahribar]]
Level 2 - Survivors Will Be Shot Again (Save 70 of 70) [[Ahribar]]
Level 4 - Copyright Infringement Part 2 (Save 158 of 160) <original>
Level 11 - Down The Middle We Go (Save 76 of 80) <original>
Level 12 - Zanmato 12 (Save 78 of 80) <original>
Level 18 - Grounded (Save 26 of 30) <original>
Level 19 - It's A Blast (Save 55 of 80) <original>
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I'll PM you my 100% solutions to the other ones I've solved.
Of the rest, I haven't had time to look at them all yet, but I'm morally certain that 100% is indeed impossible on 1.1, 2.9 and 2.11. Don't know about 2.16 because I haven't found any solution to that level yet.
I have a sneaking suspicion that 100% could be possible on 3.2, but I've got nowhere near getting it to work.
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I don't think 2.16 is actually that hard. But I'm almost certain it's not 100%able.
In fact, 1.16 is harder than 2.16 in my opinion, as it's easier to do without floaters.
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Any new broken records? (I silently updated the last page to include my new records on "Forgotten Dream" and "Final Countdown" btw)
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Well, I'm going to be very busy in the next couple of weeks, but I'll try to have a go at all the "imperfect" levels over the Easter break, see how well I can do! Here's one to be getting on with:
97 out of 100 on Wakizaski 20: This Way....
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95 may be barely possible, but I have serious doubts that 97 will be acheived.
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Sorry if the way I expressed it was ambiguous; I meant that I have actually achieved 97.
Also, 100% on Zanmato 1: Lane of Lament. Unfortunately, 100% seems to be really impossible on the Wakizaski "Lane of Lament" level because of the really tight time limit.
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High scores updated.
How are you going with the other levels anyway(the "perfect" ones)?
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As I said, I'm too busy to give much time to Lemmings at the moment, and this will continue to be the case for another week or so. I think I solved all the levels up to about halfway through the third set so far, except for 1.16 and 2.16.
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Wow, those two aren't THAT hard...
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But then I haven't had another look at them since getting nowhere the first time. Maybe if it happens to be my turn when we reach 1.16 in the level list game I'll see if I can solve it.
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1.16 is actually possible to get 100% on. 2.16 isn't, my best is lose 3.
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Yeah, I think that's why I found it so hard, I was trying for 100% as with the other Daigoro levels -- if I was just trying to pass the level I might have found it easier!
A couple new records, now:
Kozuka 9 (Muck): 123 out of 200
Wakizashi 14 (Where are the lemmings): 29 out of 30
Also, I've put up a webpage to keep track of my progress on breaking these records! (http://www.geocities.com/zarathustra47/LP3.html)
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Lemmings Plus 3: The "Imperfect Levels"
This page is for me to track my own progress on the imperfect (that is, non-100%able) levels of Lemmings Plus 3. There are 17 levels so far that neither Sunrise nor I have succeeded in getting 100% on, so I wanted to list which ones it's definitely impossible and which ones I haven't yet tried.
A: Appears on Sunrise's "Imperfect Levels" guide but 100% is actually possible
Kozuka 2: Luck
Kozuka 3: Advanced Blocking
Kozuka 4: Forgotten Dream
Kozuka 19: Short Level
Wakizashi 5: Interlocked
Zanmato 1: Lane of Lament
Zanmato 2: Survivors Will Be Shot Again
B: 100% is not possible but the maximum possible has definitely been reached
Daigoro 1: Block Blow Go (16/20). Two blockers and two bombers needed to make a route to the exit.
Kozuka 11: F-level (16/20). Exactly the same.
Wakizashi 7: Paradeath (56/60). No skills left over, therefore no way to save the four lemmings that die in the main solution.
Wakizashi 9: Lane of Lament (19/20). Not enough time to make a route under the trap without bombing. <-- I actually have an idea for this one.
Wakizashi 14: Where Are The Lemmings (29/30). One bomber needed to make a path.
Wakizashi 16: The Left Or Right Puzzle (35/40). Five bombers needed to make a path.
Wakizashi 20: This Way... (97/100). Three bombers needed to make short cuts in the route.
C: Levels I've tried but I'm not sure the maximum possible is reached yet
Kozuka 9: Muck (123/200). Might be possible to get slightly more by fine-tuning stuff. Definitely not possible to get much more than this.
Wakizashi 2: Eternal Fire (39/40). I remain convinced that 100% might be possible.
Wakizashi 11: Final Countdown (77/80). I don't know what trick Sunrise used to get 77 (my best is 75) so it's possible that if I work that out, I'll be able to use it to save even more. Or maybe when I know the trick it will just be obvious that 77 is indeed the maximum. 100% is definitely impossible. <-- PM me if you want me to give you the 77/80 solution
D: Levels I've looked at briefly but haven't yet had a real go at finding the maximum possible
Kozuka 16: Icy Flame (47/50) <-- 48 may be possible, no more than that though
Wakizashi 15: The Last Laugh (72/80)
Zanmato 4: Copyright Infringement Part 2 (158/160) <-- If you have a few hours of spare time on your hand, there is a way - repeated use of the "Lemmings from a different entrance" glitch. I am certian this is the highest possible without glitches though
Zanmato 11: Down The Middle We Go (76/80) <-- Definately not possible to get any higher. A blocker is nessecary, and there's no way to get over the gap quicker
Zanmato 12: Zanmato 12 (78/80)
Zanmato 18: Grounded (26/30)
Zanmato 19: It's A Blast (55/80) <-- Wouldn't be surprised if it was possible to get 60 or so
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Okay, on Wakizashi Lane of Lament I managed to get past the trap without losing any lemmings, however the first lemming in line got to the bridge a split second too soon - the slightest time more and it would have been 100%.
Therefore, I am certian now that 100% is possible.
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Very nice! I have no idea what trick you've thought up, but do tell me if you succeed in reaching 100%. I'll have to see if I can work out how you did it!
Please do tell me your method on Final Countdown -- I used up my whole stock of ideas getting to 75/80.
I'm sure you're right about Down The Middle We Go, but as I haven't found the solution to that level yet I can't be completely sure. Don't tell me the solution though, I'm sure I'll get there.
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Damn, I really should have thought of that device on Final Countdown myself.... my 75/80 solution was so close! And I agree, that is going to be the maximum without using the window order glitch.
I've solved Down The Middle We Go now, and you're right again there, 76/80 is the maximum (though this time with the window order glitch you can probably even get 100%).
I'll update my webpage with these two records soon.
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Disappointingly, I've tried what must be every possible variation on Sunrise's idea for Lane of Lament and it does seem to be impossible to get 100%, so I'll put that back on my "maximum possible already reached" list.
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If only the trap was a single pixel higher, then it'd be possible...
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Yes -- or if the gap was just one pixel narrower! ;)
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Hm. Do you know any surefire way to trigger that builder replay glitch? If so, our 100% solution is found.
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No, that won't work. First, the replay glitch applies to all skills, not just builders. When the glitch happens, I either get the blocker blocking as he steps down and so immediately becoming a walker again, or else the miner is in the wrong place and doesn't release the blocker. Worse, even if by luck both of those did work as normal but the builder got glitched, he hits the wall and turns back.
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Umm, I saved 59/60 on Wakazashi 6 - Paradeath. However, the second set of fire traps don't affect your lemmings, so that is probably why that was possible. (Ahribar, it is very dubious to assume that the maximum possible has been reached simply because every skill has been used, but in this case it is likely just a case of a defective trap.)
Also, I'm not sure if this has been pointed out, but Kozuka 15 - Falling Out is bugged in that all of the exits are functional (I think this is a Cheapo limitation). To work around it, you'd need to update the style to have a decoration object that looks like an exit.
Hm. Do you know any surefire way to trigger that builder replay glitch? If so, our 100% solution is found.
Generally, a solution that requires a Cheapo replay glitch (builder, window order, or otherwise) is not considered legitimate.
Oh, and the surefire way to trigger it is to do some pixel-precise moves correctly, then make a small goof at the end of the level. Then, you'll find out in the replay that the builder timing glitches and you have to start all over!
More seriously, it tends to glitch when you pause a lot and/or assign skills during pause. I have no solid evidence for this, but just my experience.
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Umm, I saved 59/60 on Wakazashi 6 - Paradeath. However, the second set of fire traps don't affect your lemmings, so that is probably why that was possible.
Nope, the normal solution requires the fact that you can fall safely past those traps, and it's still only just possible. I really would like to know how you achieved this......
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Oh? Well, the solution (backroute I assume) I used was the most direct and simple thing I could think of... extremely straightforward. I bet it's harder to come up with the save 56 solution than this! For a hint I guess, the one lemming who dies is the blocker, who is bombed.
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Hmm....... does it involve the blocker-releasing-crowd-as-he-shrugs glitch? I tried a solution with that but the crowd didn't get past him in time, about half of them fell. I suppose it could be fine-tuned.....
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No glitches necessary. Like I said, straightforward!
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Ah, I got it! ;D Nice nice catch...... I'll update the records page at once.
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Two new records!
Kozuka 16: Icy Flame -- 48/50. As you say, this one is definitely the maximum, I don't think even Shvegait could disagree.
Wakizashi 2: Eternal Fire -- 100%. Told you it was possible!
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Interesting, I'd like to know how you acheived that 100%.
Anyway, I'd say make Copyright Infringement Part 2 the next target, as it's the only one that I think 100% may be possible on that still remains. The rest may be improveable(especially "It's A Blast"), but definately are imperfect.
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RR15. Dig through the diagonal pole. Because of the higher RR, the first two lemmings will now be very close. Make them both climbers. Make the front one a blocker at a certain point -- because they're so close the second lemming will be turned around instantly -- have him dig straight away and you should release the blocker! Make the digger mine, and build up at the bottom of the wall so the lemmings can climb into the mine tunnel.
As for Copyright Infrigement Part 2.... the real sticking-point is how to do the bottom-right portion without wasting a shitload of bridges. The other three portions should all be 100%able, but I'm not sure about that one. I'll keep trying.......
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The blocker and bomber aren't the same lemming in the intended solution, but maybe there's a way around that? It might even be possible just to bring it up to 159 - that's still an improvement
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Update on my progress: I've passed every level in sets 1 and 2, and all of set 3 except levels 10 and 15.
3-10 is really stumping me; only thing I can think of is that there might be a hidden exit......
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Really? I found 3-10 rather easy to work out...
3-15 on the other hand, that's the toughest level in the set (to work out, and to implement)...
I'm up to 4-1 now, but haven't had time to play in the past several days.
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In my opinion, 3-10 is one of those levels that is "too easy for it's position".
3-15, on the other hand, I agree is a very hard level.
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OK, I've done 3-10 :) I still wouldn't call it "easy", though; it seems to take a lot of precision, both in placing some of the skills and in timing the release of the crowd. I just managed to get them in with 0 seconds left (without using the fast-forward cheat, of course).
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You must have found a "backroute" that's much more complicated to pull off. There's a very simple solution, and while there's a couple of places where you need to be somewhat precise, it's nothing out of the ordinary.
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Hmm, or maybe I'm just complaining because I had to do so many restarts :P
My solution: climb, bash right at the top, build. Coming back, mine off the corner so the other lemmings can get up. Let the climber rejoin the crowd and climb out once more, and build the crowd out (this one does need to be pixel-precise). The climber builds back to reach the top wall and bashes. I can't imagine there's any other way to do it.......
Anyway, I've solved up to and including 4.8 now, except for 3.15 still and 4.4 (Copyright Infringement Part Two) just because I foresee needing a lot of restarts for that one, so I've saving it for when I have a good chunk of time.
Nice levels, but the hints for 4.5 and 4.7 were silly! Both indicated particular tricks -- but not only were the levels perfectly easy to do without those tricks, I have no idea how to solve them with them! You must have very different solutions from mine.......
Oh, and this post makes me the board's #1 poster ;D ;D ;D
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Solved 4.18. Another one to cross off the list of doubtful imperfect levels -- there's definitely no way to save more than 26.
EDIT: and I've saved 79/80 on Zanmato 12. Also definitely impossible to improve on, so there are only four "doubtfuls" left.
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Unlike all the other LP3 levels, 4.9 "The Way Across" uses a cheap trick. That being said, it isn't one of those "invisible" ones like replay glitches or making one lemming count as two, it's one that you should be able to work out if you simply study how specific skills work.
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Well, I haven't found it.
Levels that I haven't solved yet: 3-15, 4-4, 4-9, 4-14, 4-16, 4-17, 4-19. Just seven left!
1-20 and 2-4 are the only levels I haven't saved 100% on yet, of the ones where it's possible.
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1-20 just requires a bit of precision, it's not hard to work out.
2-4, on the other hand, if you're aiming for 100% is the hardest level in LP3. (If you're just going for requried amounts, 4-17 is the hardest)
As for the regular levels:
3-15 - Still stuck, eh?
4-4 - I thought you had completed this one?
4-9 - Think about how skills interact with each other.
4-14 - If you can 100% 1-20, you've got this one sussed...
4-16 - This one is kinda tricky...
4-17 - Good luck. You'll need it.
4-19 - This one isn't hard. There again, if you can't be bothered, that's understandable.
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Oh, I've worked out how you can do 4-4 by copy-pasting the thing into the editor and using sketches. Doing it is another matter ;) especially as one part of the top-right section is damnably tricky.
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I achieved 100% on 2-4 at last ;D