Lemmings Forums
Lemmings Boards => Contests => Topic started by: IchoTolot on March 26, 2020, 09:47:15 PM
-
Welcome to another contest of the Lemmingsforums! This time the three rules have been picked by Flopsy and myself for winning contest #19.
A few words to new participants and forum members: If you haven't entered before, I strongly encourage you to try - even if you don't win, it's fun to participate; and we have had cases where first-time entrants have won before! ATTENTION ENTY RULE CHANGE: There are three choices of rules given, you may enter one level for EACH one of the rules.
You may either use new format NeoLemmix, or Lix.
If you have more than one entry, they may (but do not have to) be for the same engine. Please make sure you tested your level for basic solvability before submitting and be sure to also submit any custom tileset you are using, so others have no problem playing your level. ;)
Pre contest testing: You can choose 1 person who does a bit of pre-testing for you, so that the biggest backroutes and screw-ups of your levels can be detected before the playing phase. I cannot control this so it's only a guideline, but still I would prefer not everyone knows every level before the playing phase starts. ;)
Here are the rules on how the submission deadlines work:
- Initial submission phase deadline will extend such that it's 72 hours from the time of the last submission, up to the 5th submission (inclusive). After this it no longer changes no matter what.
- Update phase deadline will not extend over the initial dead line!
- Even if you missed the cutoff date for the initial submission phase, late entries are accepted until the update phase ends. There is no penalty for a late entry, beyond that people are less likely to spend as much time on the level before voting begins.
And here is the new ruleset:
Rule 1
(By Flopsy)
Make a level which is symmetrical both horizontally and vertically terrain wise. There is no symmetry rules for the objects in the level.
To be clear: It must be horizontally and vertically symmetrical in clear physics mode only, including steel though! As long as that's given you can use different colored blocks for example.
Rule 2
(By IchoTolot)
Make a level that uses a complete 10 skill palette. Each skill has at most 5 on the counter. All skills need to be used at least once in the intended solution.
To treat the engines equally, I would say 10 is enough for lix as well. You can use more if you want though!
Rule 3
(By Flopsy and IchoTolot collaboratively)
Make a "fake" disjoint union level. Each union needs a hatch. All unions need to be connected in some way to help out each other hence the use of "fake" in inverted commas.
An example for a "real" disjoint union would be Havoc 14 "Synchronised Lemming". As there is no interaction in between the unions.
Submission phase ends May 17th 2020 at 00:00 UTC.
Ruleset in detail again: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2246.0
Send me a personal message with your level/s and if needed tileset/s to participate. It would also be nice to also tell me the rule which each level satisfies.
Please use the following naming format: User1_Levelname_R3V1.lvl ---> Level "Levelname" by User1 for Rule 3 Version 1 of the level
Prize selection:
- US $5.00
- One month's advertising on the forums news ticker
- Pick next contest's rules
Entries so far: 22
- Armani (3)
- Crane (2)
- IchoTolot (3)
- DireKrow (3)
- Dullstar (1)
- NieSch (3)
- Flopsy (3)
- Mantha16 (3)
- Nessy (1)
- JRT (2)
- WillLem (1)
-
How does Rule 2 work for Lix levels (where the limit is 14 skills)? Should a level use exactly 10, or at least 10, or exactly 14?
-
Please can you elaborate the term "disjoint union"? And, Icho - you said that was one of your level turn-offs (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3926.msg71827#msg71827)! Curious to know why you're implementing it as a rule...
-
If I can hazard a guess, a fake union level would be "Betcha can't save just one?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVLU2KhHbJE
-
Personally, I'd appreciate some visual aids on disjoint union levels (fake or otherwise). It sounds like an interesting rule, but I'm not sure I understand.
-
Actual disjoint union: Havoc 14 "Synchronised Lemming"
(https://tle.vaarties.nl/images/solutions/ohnomore/amiga/havoc/14%20-%20Synchronised%20Lemming.gif)
The four sub-levels cannot interact with each other. The puzzle is to find the correct allocation of skills between the four sub-levels to allow all four to be solved simultaneously.
Fake disjoint union: Wicked 4 "Oh No! It's the 4th Dimension!"
(https://tle.vaarties.nl/images/solutions/ohnomore/amiga/wicked/04%20-%20Oh%20No!%20It's%20the%204TH%20DIMENSION!.gif)
The level looks like four disjoint mini-puzzles, but the top-right lemmings cannot save themselves, so one of the other groups must help them.
Borderline: Havoc 7 "Creature Discomforts"
(https://tle.vaarties.nl/images/solutions/ohnomore/amiga/havoc/07%20-%20Creature%20Discomforts.gif)
The two sub-levels are not completely sealed off, so they could interact, but in nearly all solutions they don't.
-
That's a very helpful clarifcation; thanks! :D
-
Please can you elaborate the term "disjoint union"? And, Icho - you said that was one of your level turn-offs (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3926.msg71827#msg71827)! Curious to know why you're implementing it as a rule...
Read carefully! That's why the rule says create a "fake" disjoint union.
"Betcha can't save just one?" would be a prime example for a fake one that would be eligible for the rule.
Ones I would mark a "real" disjoint union and not accept: Havoc 14 "Synchronised Lemming", Havoc 7 "Creature Discomforts"
How does Rule 2 work for Lix levels (where the limit is 14 skills)? Should a level use exactly 10, or at least 10, or exactly 14?
To treat the engines equally, I would say 10 is enough. You can use more if you want though.
-
I assume this is probably fine, but I want to check:
For Rule 2, is it okay for some of the skills to be available only as pick-ups, or do 10 skills need to be available from the start? The pick-up, is, of course, required for the intended solution.
EDIT: I found a way to enforce my intended solution that doesn't require pick-up skills, but I'm leaving the question here because it might be useful for someone else.
-
I assume this is probably fine, but I want to check:
For Rule 2, is it okay for some of the skills to be available only as pick-ups, or do 10 skills need to be available from the start? The pick-up, is, of course, required for the intended solution.
EDIT: I found a way to enforce my intended solution that doesn't require pick-up skills, but I'm leaving the question here because it might be useful for someone else.
Skills only available as pick-ups are allowed as long as they are essential. :)
-
(When) are we allowed to use the jumper?
Only if there is a stable release in time perhaps? Or not at all?
-
(When) are we allowed to use the jumper?
Only if there is a stable release in time perhaps? Or not at all?
For the contest only the stable version of NeoLemmix is allowed.
As the jumper is still experimental it is not yet allowed. So this contest for sure will still be jumper free.
-
Thanks!
-
Got the first version of my 3 entries ready. Be sure to work on yours as well. ;)
-
I really enjoyed joining the contest last time so I'll be joining again. I've got one entry ready so far. I try to make them not too hard this time, but still challenging of course.
-
I’m not sure if I want to try this or not! I’m not spectacular at level design so I don’t know..
-
You never know until you give it a shot. And hey, don't worry if you don't do a good job - you're giving players a level to try out!
-
Thanks! Actually, for the rule in which you have to have the level be symmetrical, I already have an idea for that! Sort of. EDIT: Actually I have something better for rule three! :D (If it works out then I’ll enter the contest)
-
Why not submit both ideas? ;)
-
In rule two, shouldn’t it be eight skill palette? Aren’t you only able to have eight different skills in one level?
-
The current stable version of NeoLemmix allows ten. Lix allows fourteen.
-
Oh.... well in that case then I need to download the most current stable version of neolemmix.
-
Thanks! Actually, for the rule in which you have to have the level be symmetrical, I already have an idea for that! Sort of. EDIT: Actually I have something better for rule three! :D (If it works out then I’ll enter the contest)
You don't have to pick a rule to enter, you can enter all 3 contests rules if you want. This is the first contest where you are able to enter all three.
Also, when I entered my first contest, I ended up winning it so don't be discouraged :)
Out of curiosity IchoTolot, are you allowed to say how many levels are currently entered for each rule right now?
-
Out of curiosity IchoTolot, are you allowed to say how many levels are currently entered for each rule right now?
I've got 5 for rule 1, 7 for rule 2 and 4 for rule 3.
-
I am still a little confused about the disjoint rule even with the explanations so can I make entrys for the other two but not for that rule?
-
I am still a little confused about the disjoint rule even with the explanations so can I make entrys for the other two but not for that rule?
A disjoint union would be 4 steel boxes with a hatch and an exit each. ---> All 4 sections are their own level and can live without the other. See original lemmings Havoc 14 for example.
A fake disjoint union would add some kind of interaction between the sections, so that 1 part needs the other and cannot stand on its own. This can be done by putting destructible holes in the steel walls that need to be traversed through for example.
-
Hit 20 entries today! :thumbsup:
Keep them coming. ;)
-
Hey guys, On Rule One, the symmetry applies to the terrain and steel only and objects aren't counted. I suppose this means One Way Arrows need not be symmetric? You are however able to view One Way Arrows in clear physics mode so I just wanted to check if I may have these face any direction or indeed place them anywhere.
-
One way arrows are classed as an object so no they do not need to be symmetrical :)
-
Ha, excellent. Then I just finished building my Rule One level! Finishing touches over the next week.
-
I'm not really satisfied with how my in progress Rule 3 level is turning out, so I'm planning on starting over on it.
I want to check if a layout similar to this is acceptable, though, as I was wondering if this really counts or if it's just a level with two hatches. This isn't going to my submission; this level is already ineligible due to having a prior release (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3743.msg77502#msg77502).
(https://i.imgur.com/H4NAir8.png)
-
I want to check if a layout similar to this is acceptable, though, as I was wondering if this really counts or if it's just a level with two hatches.
That level you posted looks more like a regular level than a disjoint union.
In general, I will be a little bit more easy with the judgement here, but the level will still need to have clearly seperate ways that provide limited interactions. Here it's way too open.
-
Only a couple of days left until the playing phase! Get your last minute entries in! :)
-
Got my last-minute 2nd entry in!
-
Ok then, the pack should be ready tomorrow and then we can start. :)
-
Great! :thumbsup: