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Lemmings Boards => Challenges => Topic started by: Proxima on January 20, 2020, 08:48:56 PM

Title: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on January 20, 2020, 08:48:56 PM
(DOS counterpart (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1383.0))

This topic is for compiling maximum lemmings saved records for NeoLemmix levels. This is not just limited to the NL versions of the original levels; feel free to add records for usermade packs.

It's important to be aware that, unlike the original games, NL packs may be updated by their creators/compilers at any time. To make things run more smoothly, if you have any records to share, please observe the following protocol:

* Refer to levels by name, not just position! Records without level names will not be added to the opening post.
* If possible, make sure you are playing on the latest available version of a pack at all times.
* When posting records, include the date the pack was last updated. (This will usually be the "last edited" date of its topic's opening post.)
* If possible, post replays so that your results can be verified.

I'll start the ball rolling with Lemmings Redux, now that the pack is finished. I haven't played through the entire pack yet, but I've skimmed through it to see which levels are non-100% (I may have missed some) and done my best to set a record on all the remaining levels. I feel sure that some of these can be improved!

As usual, all levels are 100% unless specifically mentioned. (If cloners are available, "100%" means the total of lemmings + cloners, and any less than this will be noted.)

Lemmings Redux (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4374.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Original Lemmings levels (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4374.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



Dodochacalo's packs

DoveLems (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3242.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



Geoffster's packs

GeoffLems (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4247.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



mantha16's packs

Sammings (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4818.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



Namida's packs

Doomsday Lemmings (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1922.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus I (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1922.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus II (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1922.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lemmings Plus Omega (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1922.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



Nessy's packs

Lemmings Migration (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3369.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



WillLem's packs

Lemminas (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4679.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lemmings DD (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5307.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

MiniLems (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4693.0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 20, 2020, 09:10:01 PM
Lunatic 16 "Sega Four" on Redux is 100%able. (EDIT: Looks like you caught this slightly before I did.)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 20, 2020, 09:25:56 PM
Quirky 29 "Tension Sheet, Good Idea" is also 100%able.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This replay was made using the V12.8.0-RC but I'd be very surprised if it doesn't work on V12.7.X, as there should be no physics differences between them.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 20, 2020, 09:38:53 PM
Zany 10 "Flow Control" improved to save-17.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 20, 2020, 09:59:16 PM
Manic 27 "Watch Your Fingertip", 100%ed. This is actually quite simple compared to the previous ones.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 20, 2020, 10:26:35 PM
Manic 32 "Temple of Love" improved to save-29.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 21, 2020, 08:11:40 PM
Lunatic 20 "No Hurry, Relax" improved to save 14. Normal solution, it's just a matter of fiddling with the exact positionings of a few skills.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 21, 2020, 08:22:39 PM
Lunatic 21 "The Steel Mines Of Kessel" improved to save-44. I considered a few ideas for save-45 but I don't think any of them are workable with only 10 builders.

If there's any more improvements possible in Redux, I can't see how - I think this is the last one from me.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: ccexplore on January 23, 2020, 12:47:44 AM
Zany 22 SNOW JOKE 100% still basically works in Redux.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: ccexplore on January 24, 2020, 12:46:04 AM
Confirmed Manic 15 THE SILENCE OF THE LEMMINGS save 38.  This is actually somewhat significant because IIRC, there are a number of lose-2 solutions previously reported for DOS Lemmings (I know of at least 3) that all happened to use (each different) behaviors that don't work the same on NeoLemmix (thus rendering the solution inoperable in NeoLemmix).  It seems like this NeoLemmix solution can potentially be back-ported to work on DOS Lemmings, but does that correspond to an already previously reported solution for DOS Lemmings, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: ccexplore on January 25, 2020, 09:39:13 AM
Manic 23 (Old MacDonald...) improved to 38.  I never actually played the DOS version of level, so no idea whether the record there is lose 2; if not then it almost certainly should be.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on January 25, 2020, 11:03:35 AM
The DOS record is lose 2 but it relies on direct drop, so I guess I gave up too quickly looking for a lose-2 solution in NL. :P
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 26, 2020, 12:33:12 AM
Redux is probably getting close to completed, so, I'm going to start looking at Lemmings Plus I. Here's my results up to Danger 15 (inclusive).

Mild 22 "Blow Down" - 19/25

Wimpy 4 "Saviour" - 79/80
Wimpy 29 "Russian Rescue" - 79/80

Medi 4 "Getting There" - 48/50
Medi 5 "Safety Blast" - 77/80
Medi 15 "Shooting Star" - 38/40
Medi 16 "Grounded!" - 17/20
Medi 17 "Six Feet Under" - 56/60
Medi 20 "The Diving Board" - 57/60
Medi 21 "As It Burns Away..." - 76/80
Medi 25 "Wall of Wisdom" - 64/80
Medi 27 "Take A Dive" - 48/50
Medi 28 "Way Up High" - 19/20
Medi 29 "Lemmingsense" - 77/80
Medi 30 "Consider Everything..." - 79/80

Danger 1 "Inside Outside" - 10/15
Danger 3 "Backdraft" - 16/20
Danger 9 "With A Quirk Or Two..." - 48/50
Danger 13 "Breakthrough!" - 56/60
Danger 15 "Circular Wavelength" - 77/80

All iterations of No Salvation are 100%able. All others up to Danger 15 are 100%able.

Replays attached for:
- Mild 19 "Up To Where They Go", save-all
- Wimpy 12 "Only One Place To Go", save-all
- Medi 30 "Consider Everything", save 79
- Danger 8 "Cavern Of Chills", save-all
- Danger 13 "Breakthrough", save 56
- Danger 14 "Death In All Directions", save-all
- Psycho 29 "No Salvation V", save-all - should work on all other iterations of No Salvation too
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on January 26, 2020, 03:09:45 AM
I had a quick look through the rest of Danger, skipping over 16 as it looks too complex for late-night :P My results:

21 It's The Latest Craze! 19/20
23 Lair Of The Fallen Lemming 78/80
26 With Love, From Trogdor 55/60
27 The Deadly Climb 2/5
28 Coalburner 74/80
30 The Hideout 79/80

Replay attached for 100% on Danger 21.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 27, 2020, 11:34:47 PM
The best I can achieve for Danger 16 "The Oddstack" is 65/70.

Losses (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 28, 2020, 12:35:22 AM
Danger 23 "Lair of the Fallen Lemming", save-all is possible.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on January 29, 2020, 12:40:35 AM
As per Discord discussions yesterday, some Psycho results. Bolded ones are improvements over the save requirement. Those prepended with a * are the ones that I think are worth a closer look.

Psycho 1 "Variety Day" - 20/20 (found by Proxima)
Psycho 2 "The Parking Lot" - 49/50
Psycho 3 "Express Lane" - 11/12
Psycho 4 "Think Outside The Square!" - 11/15
Psycho 5 "Lightspeed Lemming" - 73/80 (intended solution replay achieves this)
Psycho 6 "The Bulldozer" - 80/80 (although requirement is 79/80, most solutions will achieve 80/80)
Psycho 7 "Turn Back With Care" - 78/80
* Psycho 8 "Snowed In!" - 72/80
* Psycho 9 "Coalburner (Part II)" - 72/80 (this is just the requirement)
Psycho 10 "What Did You Expect?" - 77/80
Psycho 11 "Three Birds With One Stone" - 77/80 (many ways to achieve this, including the intended solution replay)
Psycho 12 "Not Gonna Work" - 40/40
Psycho 13 "Go High Go Low" - 58/60 (replay attached)
Psycho 14 "Lemmerixo" - 50/50
Psycho 15 "Where Anything Goes" - 53/53
Psycho 16 "Crosswork" - 50/50 (trivial to improve any% to 100%)
* Psycho 17 "Meeting Spot" - 18/20
Psycho 18 "Return of the T" - 25/25
Psycho 19 "A Perfect Nightmare" - 80/80
Psycho 20 "No Time To Die" - 20/20
Psycho 21 "Kamikaze!" - 77/80 (found by Proxima)
Psycho 22 "Twins" - 79/80 (trivial improvement to standard solution)
Psycho 23 "Death Row" - 73/80 (just a matter of good timing)
* Psycho 24 "Gone In A Flash" - 15/20
Psycho 25 "Bullet Lemming" - 79/80
Psycho 26 "Oblivion" - 18/20
Psycho 27 "No Time To Die (Part II)" - 20/20
Psycho 28 "To The End!" - 30/30
Psycho 29 "No Salvation V" - 10/10 (replay earlier in topic)
Psycho 30 "Hellfire!" - 76/80
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on January 31, 2020, 04:49:41 PM
Medi 20 "The Diving Board" 58/60
Medi 29 "Lemmingsense" 78/80
Danger 3 "Backdraft" 18/20
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on February 14, 2020, 01:59:08 AM
Psycho 22 "Twins" improved to 80/80. Unlike the above, this is not a trivial variation on the standard solution, this is actually quite tricky.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on February 20, 2020, 03:21:43 AM
While working on the "skills you can't live without" challenge, I found a 1-blocker solution to Danger 15 "Circular Wavelength" that also improves the save count to 79/80.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on February 28, 2020, 05:58:51 AM
I've made a start on DoveLems, adding my results for the Plain levels to the opening post. Of these, I would say 100% on Plain 15 "Ground Floor, Please" is the most challenge-worthy.

This rank includes a nuke level, so we will probably never know for certain what is the maximum possible that can be saved. I'll keep track of our record in the same way as with any other level, and if anyone manages to improve it, let me know!
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Minim on February 28, 2020, 08:39:38 AM
To be more specific about which nuke level he's talking about, it's Plain 28: the "Final Flourish" level. Looking forward to trying this one! Although I'll have to see if I can actually do this one with original skills.

EDIT: So, I managed to improve this one to Save 58. Looks like I found the quickest way to the exit here, and used quite a lot of climbers too.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on April 20, 2020, 07:27:41 PM
I've added MiniLems (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4693) to the opening post. Only five four non-100%able levels in the pack!

Replays attached for 100% "We are now at LEMCON ONE" (yes, this is actually quite tricky with the reduced skillset!), 25/30 "Call in the bomb squad", 29/30 "The Boiler Room" and 100% "The Steel Mines of Kessel".
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: WillLem on April 20, 2020, 09:02:37 PM
I've added MiniLems (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4693) to the opening post. Only five non-100%able levels in the pack!

Thanks for doing that! Tailor Made For Blockers is 100%-able though:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on April 21, 2020, 09:27:19 PM
We have a result for every level of Original Lemmings now (thanks partly to WillLem expressing interest in a couple of levels), so I've added these to the opening post. There's some overlap with Redux, but enough different levels that it feels worth maintaining the separate list; besides, this makes it easy to compare results with our results for the original game (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1383.0).

Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on April 23, 2020, 01:17:24 AM
LPI Psycho 9 "Coalburner" 73/80
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: DireKrow on April 30, 2020, 12:40:02 AM
LPI Danger 27 "The Deadly Climb" 3/5 (improving from 2)
LPI Psycho 4 "Think Outside the Square!" 12/15 (improving from 11)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on May 06, 2020, 11:44:07 PM
Sammings (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4818.0) results added. The Pillar 2 result, and 100% on Bubble 3 and 4, are thanks to WillLem. I've attached my own replays for a couple of the trickier results.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: WillLem on May 06, 2020, 11:56:06 PM
The Pillar 2 result, and 100% on Bubble 3 and 4, are thanks to WillLem.

Replays attached. :lemcat:
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on November 08, 2020, 12:34:35 PM
Redux results updated. The new level "The Boiler Room" has an obvious maximum of 49/50. (In original Lemmings, "The Boiler Room" was notorious as one of the "non-100%" levels that turned out to be 100%able after all, but this required the sliding glitch, which is not possible in NeoLemmix.)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: WillLem on November 25, 2020, 07:12:12 AM
Thought it was worth sharing this here, it's namida's 100% solution to Wicked 19 Up, Down or Round and Round. Some deftly applied flow control stuff going on here, and it's a solution I was struggling to find elsewhere. So, enjoy!
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on December 07, 2020, 07:57:51 AM
Before I jump into DoveLems / Coward; here's a couple of improvements for DoveLems / Plain.

EDIT: I only found one result of interest in Coward. Attached.

EDIT: Found another one. I had tried this the first time through but hadn't quite got it to work out.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on December 07, 2020, 09:43:58 PM
Found one more improvement here.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Pooty on December 08, 2020, 12:09:51 AM
Coward 02 improved to 29/30.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: WillLem on December 10, 2020, 06:52:31 PM
MetroidMaster88 posted this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkID12FIeP8&ab_channel=metroidmaster88) of 72/75 saved for Mayhem 10 Pillars of Hercules. He played the level on SNES, but the trick he used to save that extra Lemming works in NeoLemmix as well, so we now have a completely glitch-free 72/75 solution!

I used the same technique of
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and built the rest of the solution from there.

So, many thanks to MetroidMaster88 (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4746.msg88364#msg88364)! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on December 16, 2020, 10:03:10 PM
Quote
28 Lemmings in a situation 39/40

Saved 100% in my Builders+Bashers+Diggers solution.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on December 21, 2020, 06:04:33 PM
I have finally completed Lemminas and saved 100% on every level! :thumbsup: Just got one more talisman to go, and then everything is done and I can post my full-pack review....
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: WillLem on December 22, 2020, 12:42:48 AM
My records for GeoffLems (100% unless noted):

Bold text indicates that the result shown is above the save requirement for the level.

Fun (click to show/hide)
Tricky (click to show/hide)
Taxing (click to show/hide)
Mayhem (click to show/hide)

Full set of replays attached.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on December 23, 2020, 01:47:06 AM
Looking over my own records for GeoffLems, some of them improve on yours:

Tricky 18 "Fort Lemmington" 49/50
Taxing 17 "Lemmington Abbey" 39/40
Taxing 29 "Hangar B" 17/20
Taxing 30 "Tabula Rasa" 76/100
Mayhem 3 "Topsy Turvy" 48/50

...and I was inspired to have another look at this pack and found the following improvements:

Tricky 7 "Mining Workforce in Decline" 30/30
Tricky 12 "House of Pancakes" 97/100 (improved to 99/100 with the help of WillLem in discord)
Tricky 19 "Wire Cutters" 24/30
Taxing 15 "Mutiny on the Bounty" 60/60 (with the help of WillLem in discord)

I think that's it as far as Fun, Tricky and Taxing are concerned, but I don't know about Mayhem as I haven't even solved most of these yet :P
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on December 27, 2020, 03:20:27 AM
I've added my results for Lemmings Migration's first three ranks to the OP.

EDIT: Added full results for Lemmings DD.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on February 06, 2021, 04:39:17 AM
While the new official conversions of the original games are a work in progress, WillLem and I have some results for the finished ranks:

PSP

4 Block first, Explode second 16/20
13 Chain reaction 20/25
21 Seeing double! 11/12
26 Back of the net! 19/20
28 Float in Light, at Lemming Head Height 2/3
34 Born a blocker, die a blocker 1/10

2P

All levels solved with 100%!

"Other"

4 Lemming Lament 46/50
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Minim on March 03, 2021, 08:53:56 PM
Quirky 21: "The Long Way Around" is the only updated Redux level affected by this challenge. I can confirm 29/30 is still possible, but a replay hasn't been seen yet so here's one. It's much easier than some people think.

Soon I'm going to go through all the challenges to the updated levels. If any replays have been affected by the updates, I'll highlight them and do my best to copy these results.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on March 12, 2021, 03:12:04 AM
NL conversions of the Genesis levels:

Fun

All levels solved with 100%!

Tricky

4 Go out for a walk? 49/50
7 Don't leave any Lemmings 49/50

Taxing

6 Walk through here but cautiously 49/50*
7 Value each moment 48/50
9 Lunch time 48/50
12 Watch right and left! 79/80

Mayhem

5 Climb and fall. Fall and climb. 48/50
12 No hurry, Relax. 84/100

* Taxing 6 is the remake of Crazy 1, Quote: "That's a good level". The original level is 100%able in DOS and Mac, but this has not yet been confirmed on Genesis, and might be impossible because the Genesis version doesn't allow RR changes while paused. NL does, of course, but 100% might still be impossible because of other behaviour differences.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: WillLem on June 10, 2021, 12:26:13 AM
My 100% solution for Lemmings Plus I - Danger 12 - When Life Gives You Lemmings :lemcat:
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on September 25, 2021, 01:14:26 AM
Getting started with MegaLems:

Fun

6 Rescue Time Approaching 39/40
11 So Mild 32/40
25 First Of The Whole 39/40
27 Funneling Effect 39/40
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on September 26, 2021, 05:14:49 AM
Lemmings Plus II:

Nice

3 The Downwards Mission 47/50
16 These Lasers Aren't So Fun... 99/100

Cheeky

2 Double Dipping 19/20
6 Raindrop Lemming 198/250
9 Oh Snap... 63/75
12 Horror Tree 24/25
13 Above The Forests 45/50
15 To The Treehouse 24/25
16 Placement Testing 42/50
19 The Road To Nowhere 44/45
20 Kickback Scheme 49/50

I've attached a few of the more interesting solutions. A couple of these might even be talisman-worthy if the pack weren't already finalised. 8-)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: namida on September 26, 2021, 05:53:10 PM
My interesting ones.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: MASTER-88 on December 12, 2021, 12:20:06 AM
I post that wrong page. But yeah Psycho 26 Oblivion.

19/20 saved. Its one better than update record. Camera replay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efTfIocBW6w
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: CraftyRaf on May 21, 2023, 11:23:32 PM
Question:

Zany 6, Compression method 1
When I was still a kid, I remember a solution where there is 1 blocker at the left, and 1 bomber at the right, so you don't have to pass the compression traps!
That way, you could save 38/40 instead of 36/40.

Something like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORH9nwDNep4&ab_channel=Gronklems

But that solution doesn't seem possible in this version?
Thanks!
Raf
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: Proxima on May 21, 2023, 11:42:07 PM
It's actually possible to save 49/50 by using the digger on the left so that only the bomber dies. (The original game has 50 lemmings on this level.)

But this depends on the way steel was handled in the original game. Destructive skills would consult the steel map to decide whether to stop, or, in the case of bombers, whether they could remove terrain or not -- but any stroke of destruction that did go ahead would remove all terrain, including steel, within its destruction mask.

That behaviour is undesirable for custom levels because it makes it possible to create paths through areas that the level designer intended to be impassible, so NL instead makes each stroke of destruction remove normal terrain without removing steel. This makes it impossible to take any right-side solution on Compression Method 1.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
Post by: ericderkovits on March 20, 2024, 01:35:40 AM
I managed to get 100% on Tricky 12 (genesis level)  in Neolemmix

here is the level and the 100% saved replay (neolemmix)

watched paiy's Tas replay to help get it in Neolemmix

also the replay on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pks6o3yp6sA

edit by kaywhyn: Moved this post to the correct NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records topic as it is for NL. The Maximum Saved Records topic is for the various different ports of the Lemmings game(s)!