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NeoLemmix => NeoLemmix Levels => In Development => Topic started by: Strato Incendus on October 13, 2019, 05:35:03 PM

Title: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 13, 2019, 05:35:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/rcGOqIO.png)

Lemmings Open Air is halfway done - and the main reason why development on that front isn't going faster is because I keep getting ideas for levels that simply don't fit into the classic tilesets.
Lemmings Hall of Fame, meanwhile, can't really make any progress without the Jumper. I've created some levels for it, but as recent discussions have shown, the Jumper seems to be quite essential for creating that authentic Lemmings 2: The Tribes feeling which that pack is going for.

So this is where all my other level ideas go, especially those which involve tileset mixing, because that is sort-of a no-go for the other two packs I'm working on, albeit not completely inevitable.

This pack, in contrast, is going to mix tilesets in a very specific way for a very specific reason...

(https://i.imgur.com/T7PKMBo.png)
When the Lems go marching in

(https://i.imgur.com/fOUQiSS.png)
True colors

(https://i.imgur.com/ZgQ18Gn.png)
The internet is for p0rn

(https://i.imgur.com/B9kZRgB.png)
Welcome to my nightmare

(https://i.imgur.com/C5bO6pk.png)
Scratching the ceiling of the world

(https://i.imgur.com/C6j6pvL.png)
Cake to bake


Analogous to Lemmings Hall of Fame taking Lemmings 2: The Tribes to NeoLemmix, Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll is going to be a NeoLemmix version of Lemmings 3D! :D

First of all, that means self-recorded rock/metal versions of all the Lemmings 3D tracks this time. 8-)

Second, as you can see, I'm using several tilesets revolving around the same theme to get as close as possible to the graphic sets used in Lemmings 3D. They don't really seem to have universally agreed-upon names, but I'm going to call them:

1. Army: L3 Biolab, L2 Beach, L2 Medieval - for the "Polar" subtype: L2 Polar, Raymanni Snow, ONML Snow / Christmas
2. Classic ("Lemgo"): L2 Circus, L2 Shadow, Arty Lego, namida Abstract, namida Psychedelic, Raymanni Toys
3. Candy: namida Candy, Raymanni Food, davidz Candy
4. Medieval: L2 Medieval, IchoTolot Castle, mobius tanCastle, Gronkling Slime, GigaLem TreeMod
5. Circus: L2 Circus, L2 Beach, Raymanni Circus
6. Outdoor (Maze): L2 Outdoor, L2 Highland, Jaimie House (Speedy Eggbert), GigaLem TreeMod, ONML Brick
7. Digital: Raymanni Cyberspace, Sonic Cybertrack / Technobase, namida Circuit, Gronkling Cyber, Gronkling Minimal, Jarv Future...
8. Egyptian: L2 Egyptian, L3 Egyptian, L2 Beach, namida Desert, GigaLem DesertMod, orig Pillar
9. Space (Alien): L2 Space, L2 Shadow, namida Space, plom Metro, Gronkling Minimal, (Ex-Gronkling) Electric, SQron Turrican / Alien, Raymanni Sewer (for the water)
10. Sports (Golf) : L2 Sports, L2 Beach, L2 Medieval, namida Desert, GigaLem DesertMod

All levels are going to feature some sort of coloured background, to simulate the 3D experience a little more, while Lemmings Open Air and Lemmings Hall of Fame are going to feature almost exclusively black backgrounds, like their respective original games.

For example, for the Candy setting, I'm combining namida's Candy tileset, Raymanni's Food tileset, and the Candy tileset by davidz:

(https://i.imgur.com/CRvldOB.png)
Eatin' ain't cheatin'

The menu background is the one from Lemmings 3D, and I've also made the menu signs white with red letters, in honour of the original. I actually tried using the original L3D signs first, but the rank names didn't fit the square shape; for everything else, this would have worked fine! :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


There are going to be four main ranks of 20 levels each, like in Lemmings 3D, as well as a Practice rank for first-time players. The rank names are:

00. Virgin
01. Sober
02. Drunk
03. Plastered
04. Delirious

The Practice rank is going to feature levels centered around 1 or 2 skills, i.e. not quite as simple as the mono-skill levels in Lemmings 3D, but in a similar vein. Levels such as this one:

(https://i.imgur.com/oTIuxnH.png)
Walkin' after midnight

But occasionally, there are also still going to be somewhat "artistic" levels. Here's one associated with the Medieval and one with the Outdoor setting:

(https://i.imgur.com/NUbmndO.png)
Les Lems des cathédrales

(https://i.imgur.com/s0f6QuN.png)
Wuthering Heights

As you can see, we're still sticking to the song-title theme. ;)

So yeah, Lemmings Open Air is definitely going to be finished first - and if only for the fact that it's the only one that doesn't require me to record a bunch of new music tracks first before releasing it.

After that, it really depends on how quickly we can get a stable version of the Jumper to work whether I'm going to focus on Hall of Fame or Drugs and Rock 'n Roll first... :D
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: NieSch on October 13, 2019, 06:30:39 PM
It already looks and sounds spectacular. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: namida on October 13, 2019, 06:55:57 PM
Quote
Second, as you can see, I'm using several tilesets revolving around the same theme to get as close as possible to the graphic sets used in Lemmings 3D. They don't really seem to have universally agreed-upon names, but I'm going to call them:

1. Army
2. Classic
3. Candy
4. Medieval
5. Circus
6. Outdoor
7. Digital
8. Egyptian
9. Space
10. Sports

There's official names for them that can be easily gotten from L3D's data (just by looking at filenames, nothing super fancy needed). The catch is that some styles have two possible names - three styles have only a single definitive name, three have full vs abbreviated names, and four outright have two potential names.

In the "BMPS" folder, we have BMP files of the pre-level wallpapers. Each one of these has a name for the style. The names from here are "Army", "Castle", "Circus", "Computer", "Egypt", "Golf", "Lemgo", "Maze", "Space", "Sweets". I will note in particular here - I believe "Egypt", not "Egyptian", was intended, as "Egyptian" could still fit in to the DOS character limit.

In the "SOUND" folder, we have a slight different set of names. One consideration here is that these files are limited to 5 letters for the style names, as DOS filenames are limited to 8 characters altogether, and these use a two-letter prefix for the soundcard the files correspond to plus a one-digit suffix to identify the three variations for each style. "Army", "Egypt" and "Golf" are the same. "Circus", "Computer" and "Sweets" are abbreviated as "Circ", "Comp" and "Sweet" respectively. The remaining four, "Castle", "Lemgo", "Maze" and "Space" have completely different names in the sound files - "Medi" (presumably short for "Medieval"), "Lego", "Gard" (presumably, "Garden") and "Alien" respectively.

Which set of names is the "authentic" one? I'd personally believe the ones from "BMPS" for several reasons. Firstly, I believe it's a known fact that "Lego" was the original name for the relevant style but it was changed to "Lemgo" for trademark reasons. The BMPS names use "Lemgo", the SOUND names use "Lego". Secondly, names changing during development in general is very plausible, and the BMPS files have newer modified dates. Finally, the game does not actually use the files in BMPS - they're in a much higher resolution than the game uses, and happen to exactly match common Windows screen resolutions at the time; thus, the logical conclusion is they're intended as desktop wallpapers, and the intent is that the user might see the filenames; thus, I'd believe more care went into using accurate style names here.

But ultimately, there's no official word on which possible official style name is the true official one for any given style.

On a side note, I believe L3DEdit doesn't quite use either official names for a few styles. I'm fairly sure I used "Candy" and "Pyramid" rather than "Sweets" and "Egypt". Those who are bothered by this can simply modify the L3DEditPresets.ini file (after running L3D once). ;)


Speaking of L3DEdit, it's quite easy to use it to extract the graphics from L3D. You could even use the actual L3D tilesets, though some work would be needed to convert the raw graphics into something that works well in NL.

And finally, I just want to mention that I'm really excited to hear your renditions of the musics! :D


EDIT: Actually, I noticed another thing:

Quote
00. Virgin
01. Sober
02. Drunk
03. Stoned
04. Delirious

I'll just say, anyone who's been both (and is familiar with Lemmings rank naming in general) would very much expect Stoned to be easier than Drunk. ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 14, 2019, 08:21:51 AM
Quote
In the "SOUND" folder, we have a slight different set of names. One consideration here is that these files are limited to 5 letters for the style names, as DOS filenames are limited to 8 characters altogether, and these use a two-letter prefix for the soundcard the files correspond to plus a one-digit suffix to identify the three variations for each style. "Army", "Egypt" and "Golf" are the same. "Circus", "Computer" and "Sweets" are abbreviated as "Circ", "Comp" and "Sweet" respectively. The remaining four, "Castle", "Lemgo", "Maze" and "Space" have completely different names in the sound files - "Medi" (presumably short for "Medieval"), "Lego", "Gard" (presumably, "Garden") and "Alien" respectively.

Haha, "Lemgo" is actually a place in Germany, as well. ;) I guess both are referring to the tileset I called "Classic"; I don't even know where I got that name from, maybe just from Fun 11 ("It's a Classic"). Back in the day I used to think that was just the tileset they were using for levels that were supposed to be as closely related to original (=classical) Lemmings as possible.

I wasn't aware of that tileset being supposed to look like Lego bricks; now you've definitely inspired me to add Arty's Lego tileset into the tileset mix for emulating that specific graphic set! :thumbsup: So far, I've only been using the blocks from the L2 Circus tileset + the L2 Shadow hatch + your Psychedelic exit. The actual Circus levels can only be distinguished by the fact that they make a lot of use of the diagonally two-coloured blocks, rather than the mono-coloured ones (plus the tent exit and, in general, more red and white stripes).

Quote
Speaking of L3DEdit, it's quite easy to use it to extract the graphics from L3D. You could even use the actual L3D tilesets, though some work would be needed to convert the raw graphics into something that works well in NL.

I think the terrain pieces wouldn't be of much use, because they're basically just blocks. I was just about to ask though whether we have the "army guy" somewhere for NeoLemmix (the officer with the brown jacket and the black hat)? ;) He's rather iconic to make the Army levels identifiable as such. I've already looked into the VGA-Special-Graphics tileset, because I was pretty sure I had seen him appearing on somebody else's custom level, but I could only find the Lemmings-3D logo itself there, which appears on e.g. some levels in SEB Lems.

That is another thing I could adapt about the menu, of course - going with the L3D logo and making it match the music theme, rather than sticking to a modified version of the original Lemmings logo. But since this pack isn't actually going to be 3D, maybe this hybrid approach works better. I actually kind of like how the grey Lemmings 3D background goes behind a standard, original-style Lemmings menu.

That said...

Quote
In the "BMPS" folder, we have BMP files of the pre-level wallpapers

...is there any way to have the pre-level menu backgrounds in NeoLemmix change on a level-by-level basis, rather than picking one for the entire pack? :D

For example, if I could just edit it into the text of a level file, like a pre-level text, moving background objects, the music etc.

That would allow me to make it even clearer which level belongs to which L3D tileset, while still having the standard grey L3D background for the post-level screens, like in L3D itself.

If this isn't possible at the moment, maybe it might be worth opening a suggestion thread for that... ;)

Quote
And finally, I just want to mention that I'm really excited to hear your renditions of the musics! :D

I'm also overall much more excited for creating these than the ones from L2! :thumbsup: L2 has a few that I like very much, but also a couple others that I already know are going to be a nightmare to record, due to frequent tempo- and rhythm changes. I may actually have to write these down and export them as MIDIs first before playing along, which takes more time.

So far, I've simply identified the rough tempo of a track, set my metronome and recorded the drums to it, going through a couple of loops of the track, and then throwing the other instruments on top. The main issue with the original and ONML tracks was that some of them seemed to be just in between two BPM (beats per minute) numbers, as far as their tempo was concerned. So I always had to choose between playing to the original track and then doing a bunch of timing adjustments to the drums afterwards, or playing just to the metronome, with the structure of the track just in my head.

The L3D tracks, aside from already sounding more "realistic" from the getgo, have the great advantage of having a defined start- and ending point. Whether they're also at a constant speed that can be defined in a single BPM value is something I'll have to try out then. With 2 tracks for each of the 10 tilesets, there's a bunch of tracks to record, of course, but even though it's more than just the original Lemmings tracks, it's already less than I've done for LWT, because that one also included all but one of the ONML tracks. Plus, due to the defined start- and ending point, each individual one of these tracks should take less time to record.

Quote
I'll just say, anyone who's been both (and is familiar with Lemmings rank naming in general) would very much expect Stoned to be easier than Drunk. ;)

Now that you say that, swapping Drunk and Stoned around might actually even fit better with some of the level names created thus far - and also their difficulty.

Although for the penultimate rank, I would then kind of prefer a more intense synonym for "Drunk"... :evil:
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: namida on October 14, 2019, 09:25:54 PM
Quote
I think the terrain pieces wouldn't be of much use, because they're basically just blocks. I was just about to ask though whether we have the "army guy" somewhere for NeoLemmix (the officer with the brown jacket and the black hat)? ;) He's rather iconic to make the Army levels identifiable as such. I've already looked into the VGA-Special-Graphics tileset, because I was pretty sure I had seen him appearing on somebody else's custom level, but I could only find the Lemmings-3D logo itself there, which appears on e.g. some levels in SEB Lems.

You would have to shape them, or provide useful eraser pieces that can be used to shape them, I'd think. Since these erasers would likely be similar across all L3D sets, perhaps they should go in their own "l3d_erasers" set.

Quote
...is there any way to have the pre-level menu backgrounds in NeoLemmix change on a level-by-level basis, rather than picking one for the entire pack? :D

No. It might be doable per-rank (in some cases NeoLemmix will look in a rank's folder for custom graphics), not sure, but it isn't doable per-level. In such a case, it wouldn't be possible to have separate postview vs preview ones, let alone separate for each level.

Feel free to open a suggestion, though I don't know how popular it would be. I do think it would be relatively simple to implement though, which is definitely a point in its favor.

Quote
The L3D tracks, aside from already sounding more "realistic" from the getgo, have the great advantage of having a defined start- and ending point. Whether they're also at a constant speed that can be defined in a single BPM value is something I'll have to try out then. With 2 tracks for each of the 10 tilesets, there's a bunch of tracks to record, of course, but even though it's more than just the original Lemmings tracks, it's already less than I've done for LWT, because that one also included all but one of the ONML tracks. Plus, due to the defined start- and ending point, each individual one of these tracks should take less time to record.

Much of what you say here is only true of the CD audio tracks (which are, I believe, the only tracks on the console versions). When using soundcard or MIDI audio, the tracks do loop properly, and there's three tracks per style - although only two completely distinct tracks, with the third being a remix of one of the others. Speaking of which, MIDI files of these exist if those are helpful to you.
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 15, 2019, 11:02:29 AM
Suggestion thread is opened (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4461.new;topicseen#new), thanks for adding the poll, namida! ;)

Quote
Much of what you say here is only true of the CD audio tracks (which are, I believe, the only tracks on the console versions). When using soundcard or MIDI audio, the tracks do loop properly, and there's three tracks per style - although only two completely distinct tracks, with the third being a remix of one of the others. Speaking of which, MIDI files of these exist if those are helpful to you.

I have the PC version, and that one also only included 2 tracks per tileset. Sometimes you hear slightly altered versions on the menu screens - but those tracks can't be accessed as MP3s from the CD audio, like the regular level music.

Yes, the MIDIs would be helpful for timing and such! :thumbsup: Those might be custom recreations, though? I remember WinLems featured all the original Lemmings tracks as MIDIs, but of course, that means they sounded somewhat different
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: namida on October 15, 2019, 06:25:31 PM
Quote
I have the PC version, and that one also only included 2 tracks per tileset. Sometimes you hear slightly altered versions on the menu screens - but those tracks can't be accessed as MP3s from the CD audio, like the regular level music.

The PC version has two tracks per style ("Standard" and "Alternate" in L3DEdit terminology) when using CD audio (the ones you can rip from the CD as MP3s). When you turn CD audio off - or on the menu screens, where CD audio is never used even if enabled (thus explaining the "different versions" you're talking about) - and soundcard or MIDI music is used instead, there are instead three tracks per style ("Standard", "Alternate" and the third, which is always a remix of "Standard", is "Remix"). For the record, the actual level data specifies music in terms of non-CD audio.

Theoretically, when using CD audio, "Alternate" should remain as-is, while "Remix" (due to the lack of a 3rd track on CD audio, and the fact that Remix is always similar to Standard) should fall back to "Standard". In practice, there's a bug that swaps this around; and only "Standard" is consistent between both music types. L3DUtils (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4273.0) has a patch to fix this bug. (This bug itself is consistent - a level that uses the Alternate music in soundcard / MIDI audio will always use Standard in CD audio; and a level that uses Remix in soundcard / MIDI audio will always use Alternate in CD audio.) It's debatable which one is hearing the "wrong" music - on one hand, the level data clearly specifies in terms of soundcard / MIDI music, but on the other, the console ports (where only one kind of music setting exists, so no chance of inconsistency bugs) mostly follows PC's CD audio settings, although there are exceptions.

There's a Lemmings 3D midi convertor (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4314.0) that someone wrote and I dug up a while ago, which also comes with pre-converted files so no need to actually figure out how to use it. In addition to making conversions from the actual General Midi format data, it seems it can also convert from the various soundcard music formats. Obviously, it cannot convert the CD audio.
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 17, 2019, 08:40:23 AM
Okay, I just took a listen to some L3D tracks again on my way to work, and yes, these MIDIs are definitely going to be helpful, if not required, to actually figure out what is going on some of the tracks. Especially the electro / "digital" tunes are hard to identify in terms of which pitches are being played, even with a trained ear.

I have no idea yet how accurate these MIDI conversions are - some are probably closer to the respective originals than others - but as a baseline for recording them, these are definitely invaluable.

Thanks a lot, namida! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: namida on October 17, 2019, 06:56:04 PM
Quote
I have no idea yet how accurate these MIDI conversions are - some are probably closer to the respective originals than others - but as a baseline for recording them, these are definitely invaluable.

They are directly converted from the game's actual data for soundcard / MIDI audio, so - except for anything that might have gotten lost in conversion - they should be completely accurate.

The CD audio is often not 100% accurate to these, though - it's often shortened and a lot of sections are noticably cut out (this is very noticable on both Maze tracks and the more-common Lemgo track in particular). So if you're basing your remakes off the CD audio, you should treat these midis in the same way you might treat Mozart's sheet music for Rondo Alla Turca if you were trying to replicate the DOS Lemmings music based off it, I guess?
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 17, 2019, 07:03:56 PM
Ah, perfect - in that case, I can actually import them into Guitar Pro and have everything in notation right away. Thanks for the info, and for digging these up! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on November 14, 2019, 09:07:39 PM
Here is an example of my attempts to recreate the L3D Alien tileset. I might have to adapt my level "Walkin' after midnight" (shown above) to this aesthetic; but then again, L3D Alien levels can look very different, from the black-green-orange of "Alilemms" over the plain white from the "Lemmlab" levels to the red starry background of "Dot to dot".

That said, the orange stripes on the black ground and the green "mud" water were two elements that seemed essential to me, so here's how I went about including them. This uses Gronkling's minimal tileset as well as (formerly also Gronkling's) Electric for the steel and the orange-striped pieces (here called "computer chip"), as well as elements from SQRon's Turrican / Alien set. The green water is from Raymanni's sewer tileset.

(https://i.imgur.com/YWnqu5q.png)
Space oddity

Not only that, but I've also attached the level for you to play. I think it's one of the most unique solutions I've come up with recently, and completely deserving of the title "oddity" (even though the title is actually just inspired by a David Bowie song).

This was intended to fill the 20th slot of the first rank, where "Alilemms" is in regular Lemmings 3D. But given how outlandish the solution is, I think it can go nowhere lower than the fourth and final rank.

Feel free to try and backroute this! :thumbsup: I'm always skeptical when providing quite a few Builders... but I think the teleporter will prevent any possible shortcuts on this level from getting too much out of control.

Also, based on namida's feedback, I've decided to change the name of the 3rd rank from "Stoned" to "Plastered". Does that sound like a proper increase in intensity to you, between "Drunk" and "Delirious"? :D
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on November 15, 2019, 10:03:20 PM
...and here is another one - coincidentally, also a David Bowie song. :D In case you're wondering: Ziggy Stardust himself is already reserved for Lemmings Hall of Fame! :P

This one requires some pixel-precise timing, which is why it's planned to go in rank 3 of 4 (=the one recently renamed to "Plastered" :D ). But I've put this pixel precision at the beginning of the level, as we usually agree we should do, if precision cannot be avoided in the first place. ;)

(https://i.imgur.com/D8y43sN.png)
Loving the alien

Sadly, I've already found out I can't enforce one particular part about the solution of the above-shown "Space oddity", because...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on January 13, 2020, 11:21:48 PM
I felt like doing some more level-painting again. In spirit, this is definitely going to be more of a follow-up to Lemmings World Tour than Lemmings Open Air, which is going to focus more on mechanical challenges, like Pit Lems (but stylistically more consistent).

Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll will of course still feature its fair share of "abstract" level shapes that simply emulate standard L3D levels in the various tilesets, as shown above. But so far, "Les Lems des cathédrales" is the only Geography level in the pack, so I thought I should contribute some more.

Since Lemmings World Tour was quite Euro-centric (plus a bunch of levels located in the US), here are some less-visited countries. Can you identify them? ;)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/it0aUJD.png)
Sahara

Notice how this next level starts in the exact same place where the former one ends... :D

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/yAMPeRn.png)
Arabesque

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/4Slh4zQ.png)
The sound of silence - Called this way because this place is often reported to be a ghost town, where you barely encounter anyone on the streets...

As you can see, there are quite a few zombies on these levels.

The walking ones represent the occasional militia or terrorists you might encounter on your travels.

But also, some of these countries aren't actually Lemocracies. Or they weren't, until just recently.

Thus, on some of these levels, there might also be the occasional dictator (Zombie Blocker) to get rid of... :evil:
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on January 14, 2020, 11:11:03 PM
...but, of course, I can't visit only the more "obscure" locations in this pack which I didn't get to in Lemmings World Tour. Fortunately, as the Notre-Dame level shown in an earlier post demonstrates, some of the more prominent countries that already appeared in Lemmings World Tour still have some other sights to check out (in case of Notre Dame, it's even in the same city :D , given that World Tour featured "Diggas in Paris" again).

LWT only took us to Rome and Pompeii as far as Italy is concerned... so this time, it's Venice!

(https://i.imgur.com/tZXIuGm.png)
O sole mio

Latin America was also a little under-represented in LWT, only visiting Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina. Brazil will definitely be in LDR again, and so will Chile:

(https://i.imgur.com/7Qo3CQm.png)
Santiago

Speaking of Spanish-speaking countries:

(https://i.imgur.com/ow67kBj.png)
Macarena

This is also a demonstration of what levels in style of the L3D "Golf" tileset could look like in this pack. The wooden constructions (built here out of pieces from L2 Medieval) appear on many levels, such as "Fore!" or "Brechin's Staircase". The sailing boat here is also a reference to the L3D level "Land Ahoi!"

And, of course, this post wouldn't be complete without another dictatorship:

(https://i.imgur.com/dBTFZGs.png)
I love Belarus

Yes, that is actually the title of a song. ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on January 16, 2020, 10:22:26 AM
A quick cosmetical question: I noticed that there's actually two shadings of green water which I could use for the "Alien" tileset: The one from Raymanni's Sewer tileset (currently used)

(https://i.imgur.com/YWnqu5q.png)

...and the one from the L3 Lab tileset, which is slighty darker (example taken from a former level from "Lemmicks"):

(https://i.imgur.com/kPJ5C1K.png)

I'm not quite certain which one fits better. The Mud on original Lemmings 3D consists of several shades of green, as far as I recall, with the "air bubbles" usually being brighter or darker than the rest.

The green water from the original Marble tileset is definitely too bright of a shade of green. But the water areas from Raymanni Sewer and L3 Biolab both look equally "filthy".



In general, I have to think about how I spread the "geography" levels among the various tilesets. In-game, you will easily be able to tell which tileset a level "officially" belongs to, from the music playing in the background. :D But visually, it may be slightly less clear.

To be fair, though, L3D itself blurs the lines between the various tilesets frequently, by maybe using the "background" from a different tileset than the title menu screen. For example, the title screen may suggest a level is a "House/Maze/Garden/Outdoor" level, whatever you want to call it, but the background at the edge of the level is from Army or Golf. Or a level is officially a "Lego" level (e.g. "Fun Fair" on the Mayhem rank), but the surroundings look more like a "House/Maze/Garden/Outdoor" level.

Here's how I would categorise the levels presented so far:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One of the issues regarding the choice of level titles, and then, by extension, solutions, is the overlap for certain tilesets between Lemmings 2: The Tribes and Lemmings 3D. While in principle, this overlap of tilesets is what enables the creation of this pack in the first place, because it provides much needed pieces for Medieval, Egyptian etc., those are also precisely the styles stealing level ideas from each other.

I've already used a couple of level titles here that I had originally "saved" in the thread for Lemmings Hall of Fame (which is L2-inspired). Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll takes precedent in this regard, because it isn't necessarily dependent on the Jumper to be completed, whereas Lemmings Hall of Fame is pretty much on a halt until the first test version of NeoLemmix featuring the Jumper might show up in May or so.

Meanwhile, Candy for example is a tileset which is very specific to L3D - and as such, there are a lot of food-related song titles and overall level ideas involving these terrain pieces that I haven't been able to use on any other pack yet.

With Sports/Golf, I have already saved a bunch of "stadium anthems" for Lemmings Hall of Fame, so for L3D Golf, I might go for more Carribean and Latin American songs. :D
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: ccexplore on January 16, 2020, 10:43:38 AM
Can you show what it looks like for the same level as in the first picture, if you swap it with the L3 Lab's water?

FWIW the shade of green in the first picture looks fine to me.  Using the L3 Lab water there may well be too green, for a tileset that seems to have relatively muted colors (it seems mostly gray and white).
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: namida on January 17, 2020, 04:59:17 AM
Quote
FWIW the shade of green in the first picture looks fine to me.  Using the L3 Lab water there may well be too green, for a tileset that seems to have relatively muted colors (it seems mostly gray and white).

For reference, here's how the L3D space style looks in contrast to its slime. It stands out a lot there too.

This image is from a custom level, but it's quite accurate to how the respective tiles are used in official levels.
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on January 18, 2020, 05:58:22 PM
Thanks for the screenshot, namida! Here's the same level "Space oddity" again with darker green water, I personally think it looks better, and also more accurate to the original L3D style:

(https://i.imgur.com/Jeywgvl.png)

And, here's another country level - one major nation that didn't make it into LWT :D :

(https://i.imgur.com/X6F9AG3.png)
I am cow

Naturally, this also counts as an Outdoor level. ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on January 20, 2020, 09:42:58 PM
I hope I'm not Hanoi-ying you too much with more landscape levels? :P

Here's another army level, with a fitting title...

(https://i.imgur.com/unIVNKZ.png)
Camouflage

...and another medieval one...

(https://i.imgur.com/NMMFLHR.png)
The Great Wall of China

These two are also attached and ready to play! ;)

Both are intended to go into the easiest of the four main ranks, "Sober".
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on August 30, 2020, 10:24:02 AM
I just finished watching Money Heist (La Casa de Papel) and am eagerly awaiting the fifth and final season! :thumbsup:

The solution to the following level may thus contain possible spoilers for seasons 1 and 2. ;)

(https://i.imgur.com/J2jUQw6.png)
Bella ciao

Keep in mind this is not a movie- or TV-themed pack, but whenever a show heavily leans on a particular song, that increases its chances of a reference slipping in here.

In case you haven't seen the show and the flags are understandably confusing you in terms of where this level is located geographically, the flag on the right is the one indicating the location. ;)

Here is another place that fell a little short in Lemmings World Tour:

(https://i.imgur.com/AdRQaS3.png)
Lem e som oss

That said, I must be careful not to dilude the main theme of this pack with too many geography levels now.

First and foremost, this is still a Lemmings-3D-inspired pack. So here are some more levels imitating those tilesets:

CANDY
(https://i.imgur.com/EIB5hFE.png)
Life is a lemon and I want my money back


CIRCUS
(https://i.imgur.com/IELtupE.png)
The Time Warp

(https://i.imgur.com/pK763CN.png)
Air balloon


LEGO / CLASSICAL
(https://i.imgur.com/G0zqPfc.png)
Forever young

(https://i.imgur.com/ueiSJ0h.png)
Jump (Part Two)

(https://i.imgur.com/aCZNmUJ.png)
She's so high

(https://i.imgur.com/86MfEk3.png)
Shut up and fence with me


EGYPTIAN
(https://i.imgur.com/tc2lQtN.png)
Tell Lara I love her

Guess which sprite(s) I'm using here ;) .


MEDIEVAL
(https://i.imgur.com/IfcjvCu.png)
The heart asks bashers first

(https://i.imgur.com/TCr6V80.png)
I am a Lem and I'm digging a hole


MAZE / FOREST / OUTDOOR
(https://i.imgur.com/yZQrhru.png)
The swimmer takes it all

(https://i.imgur.com/si2Pv6V.png)
Schody (Czech for "staircase")


GOLF / SPORTS
(https://i.imgur.com/eHgGQ1L.png)
We've found Lems in a hopeless place

(https://i.imgur.com/vhS4gcz.png)
Those balls are perfect

This second one was actually indeed "sung" by a sports star, namely none other than Tom Brady... ;) Look it up on YouTube...
The makers of the video, schmoyoho, are certainly also going to have a lot of fun with the US election debates again this year. 8-)


ARMY / ALPINE
(https://i.imgur.com/yZqyTVC.png)
Big Dig

This one is a symptom of this year's (cancelled) Eurovision season introducing me to the famous Russian rave band Little Big... :evil:

(https://i.imgur.com/wAnMpgW.png)
Gliders on the storm
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on November 22, 2020, 01:43:47 PM
"Pluto, Pluto - you're cold and far, and not even a planet;
Venus, Venus - too much CO2;
Mars, Mars, Mars, Mars - ain't enough magnetosphere;
There's only one place I wanna go!

Saturn, Saturn - your rings vibrate and I hesitate;
Jupiter, Jupiter - you're gassy and brown;
Neptune, Neptune - a huge calippo too big to swallow;
There's only one place where we can go!

Gonna head right to..."

(https://i.imgur.com/3fkRolC.png)
Uranus



Thanks to Nanowar of Steel ft. Michael Starr (from Steel Panther), I could make this level as a follow-up to "I'm your Venus" from Lemmings World Tour.

Both are also likely going to re-appear in a future astronomy-themed pack named Lemmings Universe.

And in the meantime, I'm uploading this level and the replay, so that "everybody can enjoy the view... of Uranus." ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on November 26, 2020, 12:44:14 AM
I recently had a strangely awesome idea... and now I've finally gathered up the insanity to implement it. :evil: Depending on your point of view, it can be a cool or a nasty surprise.
But either way, a surprise. So I don't want to ruin it for those who prefer to be surprised... but then again, most puzzle fans don't... so I also want to be fair.
And of course I'm also impatient and want to share this, because I don't think anyone else has done this so far. :P

Although, I vaguely recall WillLem having tried something like this with custom sprite recolourings... I don't know whether he changed it later, though, or whether he "got away with it"... :D

Anyways, click on the following spoiler tag at your own peril. It contains information about a tutorial level called:

Pitch-black universe (which is a song by the Finnish dark-metal band Before the Dawn) (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on December 05, 2020, 08:46:52 PM
Now that Lemmings Open Air has been released, I can focus my development efforts back on my other two music packs. Here are some more L3D-inspired ones, and some more artistic ones - two things which ideally shouldn't be mutually exclusive, as you will see in a minute... ;)


CANDY
(https://i.imgur.com/wNqRFzB.png)
Pix 'em, Lix 'em, Stix 'em!

(https://i.imgur.com/K2WqM31.png)
Fat-bottomed Lems


LEGO / CLASSICAL
(https://i.imgur.com/IQTDE5U.png)
That's the way (I like it)

Somebody once said Lemmings "brings out the worst in him". I think we all can perfectly relate to that feeling whenever we rage-quit some level ;).
However, this particular individual also happens to be an avid fan of a certain musician :P :

(https://i.imgur.com/CLwRNLp.png)
Lemmings gets the best of me

This one was my brother's school graduation song back in 2015. And there happens to be a certain L3D level which goes along very nicely with it:

(https://i.imgur.com/6dehuex.png)
Ten feet tall

Man, I really need to pick one sky background for all these Lego / Classical levels and use it consistently... :D Although that also would make it a little more boring. The Lego levels are hard enough to distinguish from the Circus levels to begin with, because both mainly use the L2 Circus tileset. I just try to make more use of the diagonally-coloured pieces for Circus, as well as using the tent from L2 Circus as the exit. For the Lego levels, in contrast, it's always the L2 Shadow hatch + the namida Psychedelic exit, because they look the closest to the original "brick-block structure" ;) .


ALIEN / SPACE
The very first level, "Walkin' after midnight", originally looked just like a regular L2 Shadow level (see opening post). Thus, I had to redesign it to make it look more in line with my other emulations of the L3D Alien tileset. I didn't actually delete it, I just placed the new pieces over the old ones, to make sure everything was in the same position as before, and then sent them to the background via the "Draw first" button, so that I could delete the old pieces in the front.
This is what the very first level looks like now:

(https://i.imgur.com/s9pKqGZ.png)
Walkin' after midnight




HOUSE / OUTDOOR / MAZE
The Jaimie House tileset is really proving itself extremely valuable for this pack, probably on par with namida's Candy tileset. In fact, the water from the Candy tileset is used on this level for the "mud" ;) . This is another one for the Virgin rank (which takes the place of the Practice rank in original L3D), and I think it's obvious what skill is the main focus here. ;) My vocal coach recently somewhat "challenged" me to do this song - it wasn't as difficult for me as he probably expected it to be, though :D  ...

(https://i.imgur.com/YMlhjtO.png)
Like a stone



ARMY
If you have played a bit of Lemmings Open Air already, you may have noticed that I tried to stick to the original graphic-set structure (with regards to what levels are at which positions within a rank) as much as possible. The same thing I'm trying to do here on Lemmins, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll! ;) (It's not really applicable to Lemmings: Hall of Fame because I'm straying from the Tribe structure there anyway, meaning you won't be playing 10 levels per tribe in a row.)

Thus, I was wondering what type of level I could put in the position of the original L3D level "Lemmhanger" (Tricky 26), with the big aeroplane. And then I remembered a certain relatively new song by the Swedish History Metal band Sabaton... ;)

(https://i.imgur.com/WBGUubV.png)
The Red Baron
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on December 06, 2020, 09:23:48 PM
Thanks a lot to namida for his instructions how to set up the level editor for Lemmings 3D, L3DEdit! :thumbsup: I've started extracting some of the graphics, and I'm going to make them available for NeoLemmix peace by peace. I'm not promising I'll do them all, but instead of just placing this into an "Army" tileset, I am now working on a "strato_l3d" tileset that is supposed to contain as much stuff from L3D as possible - mainly background objects.

This is what one of the levels shown earlier looks like with the army guy (I've just named him "trainer" now ;) ).

(https://i.imgur.com/murwWGe.png)
When the Lems go marching in
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on December 23, 2020, 12:28:13 PM
I've been thinking about this for a while, so I want to probe the community preferences on some things regarding the number of levels and ranks in this pack:

By default, Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll would be a comparatively small pack, with only 100 levels (=like Pit Lems). 20 of those however would be the Virgin rank, which takes the place of the Practice rank in Lemmings 3D. That leaves only 80 levels for the main ranks, 4 x 20. And a few of these are already taken by "Geography levels". Now of course, ideally a level should be both a geographic location AND clearly attributable to one of the L3D tilesets (works especially well with the Egyptian ones). But it doesn't always work out, of course. And I'm a little worried that the L3D theme might be diluted by the Geography levels, or in turn that there are going to be too few geographic locations covered because the L3D-tileset-inspired levels take up the majority of the pack.

So the first question would be whether I should increase the number of levels per rank to 30, as is standard. I would definitely not go beyond that, so this pack will never reach the same dimensions as Lemmings World Tour. Having been one of the testers of Lemmings United and trying to play it again now (alongside some other packs), I can certainly feel that from a player perspective, 40-level-ranks feel very exhausting, because it always seems like the next milestone is still that far away.

Increasing the level number per rank to 30 would also allow for a more appropriately extensive Virgin / Practice rank. The original L3D had an individual level for each skill, but of course it only featured the classic 8, plus the Turner, and then the rest of the levels were about introducing various objects.

NeoLemmix already has so many skills that an individual level per skill would have been way too much. So most of the skills are introduced in pairs. And skills that appeared on previous levels can also feature on those levels, so that the skillset gradually becomes more and more complex, even within the Virgin rank already. And then, just like in L3D, there are definitely going to be a couple of levels about the specific controls of NeoLemmix - which partly overlap with L3D even, like Highlight Lemming (but there's also Clear-Physics Mode, Rewinding, Arrow Keys, Framestepping etc.).


The second big question is: How would you guys feel about another Groupie rank again? ;) A lot of new members have joined the forums since I've made Lemmings World Tour, and some of them have already made multiple packs even - yet I haven't had the chance yet to emulate their level design style. Of course, if you've already had a level dedicated to you in Lemmings World Tour, that would not automatically exclude you from getting another one this time. ;) Especially not if you're still an active forum member.

I got the impression that the Groupie rank received a lot of positive reception in Lemmings World Tour, and everyone had fun guessing which level was theirs.

I wouldn't call it "Groupie" this time, though, because I'd like to stick with adjectives, like for the main ranks. My current suggestion for this rank, sticking with the music theme, would be "Plagiarized" :evil: .


So in short, there are four options that will ultimately determine the total size of this pack:
- stick strictly to L3D size (100 levels = 20 practice levels + 80 main levels)
- L3D size plus Groupie rank (120 levels, because I want all ranks to have the same size)
- extend rank size to 30 (150 levels = 30 practice levels + 120 main levels)
- extended rank size plus Groupie rank (180 levels)

In case I do add a Groupie rank, of course that leaves the question open which tilesets I should use. Should the Groupie levels stick to L3D tilesets, so that they feel like bonus levels of the main pack? ;) Or should I keep the approach from LWT where the tileset choice is part of the level building style of the given user (possibly including custom tilesets by that user as well)?
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: WillLem on December 24, 2020, 05:08:29 AM
As a general rule, I always think that less is more. 20 well-presented, neatly trimmed and substantial levels is more attractive a prospect than 40 "kitchen-sink" levels.

30 may seem like a nice round number because original Lemmings has 30-per-rank, but:

a) it was the first ever Lemmings game, so is bound not to get everything right. Note that most subsequent official games reduced the number of levels per rank, with 20 becoming more of a go-to (Oh No! More Lemmings and Lemmings 3D being ready examples). And, OK, Lemmings 3 had 30 in each, but there were only 3 ranks!

b) 30+ per rank always feels like slightly too much. I've played a number of packs with more than 25, and it does start to feel like it just keeps on going. This is not so bad in a pack like Casualemmings, where the levels are designed to be easy and quickly playable, but in a pack of bona-fide difficult puzzle levels, 20 is more than enough.

Momentum is the key here: the player should always feel spurred to continue on. Regular "checkpoints" help with that :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on March 29, 2021, 08:20:09 PM
While Lemmings: Hall of Fame is still on halt in its development until the new skills roll around, Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll isn't! ;)

It's time to p-p-p-p-p present you two more levels. :evil:

(https://i.imgur.com/BVkfPI6.png)
Among the shadows

(https://i.imgur.com/obi5QpR.png)
Ol' Blue-Eyes is back

I mean, that's totally what Frank Sinatra was referring to with this album title, right? 8-)

I hope neither of these puzzles will take you a millennium to solve, but they will require a slight update to my strato_generalmd tileset... including a recolouring of the Medieval dragon trap.
You know - for "Ol' Blue-Eyes"... :D
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on April 12, 2021, 08:06:40 PM
Okay, in terms of song titles alone, some of these choices are getting pretty obscure. But not everyone here cares that much about music, so if I can use an obscure song to secretly refer to something completely different - something comparatively famous within its respective community - maybe that's a good way to ensure everyone can at least recognise some things? :D

(https://i.imgur.com/SWPwNT2.png)
Weight of the World
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on April 30, 2021, 11:47:24 PM
One more level referring to the same game - it's funny how we have enough tilesets now to basically recreate the diverse landscape of an entire map of a role-playing game in NeoLemmix:

(https://i.imgur.com/ueHHNoe.png)
The end is NieR

Granted, I had to go for the maximum width possible in New-Formats NeoLemmix (2400 pixels), but that was totally worth it... :evil:

I also made matching white-and-black YoRHa sprites to go along with it - the Zombies wear the black face masks...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on May 01, 2021, 07:00:11 PM
Here are a few more that are also going to feature the new skills (Slider and Laserer):

CIRCUS

(https://i.imgur.com/xxQrGuA.png)
Slide it in (Part II)

(https://i.imgur.com/qL2uL0F.png)
The Shoop Shoop Song

ALIEN

(https://i.imgur.com/0CLHsqj.png)
I have a beam

(https://i.imgur.com/PBHS2si.png)
All my diggas look rich as f*ck

ARMY

(https://i.imgur.com/E2TuZUG.png)
Bang Bang (My Lemming shot me down)

GOLF / SPORTS

(https://i.imgur.com/rFseUEe.png)
Soon may the Wellerlem come

While Lemmings World Tour featured "Royals" by Lorde and "Something in the Water" by Brooke Fraser, there wasn't actually any song located in or close to New Zealand yet.
But for this one, we certainly need "all hands on deck"... :P
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on January 04, 2022, 07:10:20 PM
It wouldn't be a Strato pack if there weren't at least one level with a hidden exit. :evil: But I've included a pretty obvious hint on this one...

(https://i.imgur.com/dB13n8n.png)
Here's to us!

A level I've been wanting to make for a very long time and finally got to it today. Also, the solution turned out more unique than I expected.
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on July 17, 2023, 06:01:16 PM
While Lemmings, Drugs, & Rock 'n Roll is a pretty incoherent mess stylistically - Lemmings 3D-inspired levels, geographic-location levels, video-game inspired levels etc. - progress is still ongoing. Even though it's even slower than on Lemmings: Hall of Fame.

I'm certainly trying to focus on completing Hall of Fame first (which only needs about 20 more levels).
As long as I don't keep getting ideas for the Spearer and Grenader that force me to resort to SuperLemmix instead. :evil:

First, two more geography levels that I made today - I can't suddenly leave out the larger locations this time, just because we already visited them in Lemmings World Tour, can I?
So instead, I had to found a new twist I could put on these two countries - something I hadn't already done before. At least not the exact same way.

(https://i.imgur.com/ekIOXNg.png)
English Lem in New York
(This one obviously features my red-white English sprites.)

(https://i.imgur.com/FeRb6YA.png)
Train ride in Russia
(And this one, of course, features my red-green Soviet sprites.)


And then, there's two more video-game inspired ones.

SQron's Alien tileset is the closest thing to H. R. Giger's art I could find in NeoLemmix.
Except it wasn't quite icky enough on its own, so I had to combine it with Menace.
Hell hath no fury like a Lemming scorned...
(https://i.imgur.com/XyYqUXO.png)
Flesh for fantasy

And, in stark contrast, here's a nice and clean, polished city landscape.
This is for anyone who accused me of having created too many "parkour" levels. You haven't seen nothing yet... :evil:
PS: If you recognise the art style, you know the deal: If it's red, jump on it. ;)

(https://i.imgur.com/ekMaa4q.png)
Still alive
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: jkapp76 on July 19, 2023, 04:21:52 AM
Can't wait!

I'm ready for a new strato pack!

I hope to see some of these spearer and grenader ideas too. Maybe some modern-day slowfreeze?
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on July 19, 2023, 12:32:28 PM
Thanks! :D As said above, Hall of Fame will be the next one to be finished. After that, just like Lemmings Open Air, it will go through a period of pre-testing. During that time, I can record a few more of the tracks (unless the testers play the pack so quickly that I'm constantly busy trying to fix all the backroutes).

I'm cautious about adding radiation and slowfreeze to new levels - right now, on that front, I'm focused on bringing these objects back to Lemmings World Tour and Pit Lems in SuperLemmix.
Once it becomes clear that there now is a larger audience for radiation and slowfreeze levels, yes, I might feature them on new dedicated SuperLemmix levels, too.

Lemmings, Drugs, & Rock 'n Roll however will first come out for NeoLemmix. There are too many Stoner levels in there already to switch gears mid-development.
As such, there won't be any Spearer or Grenader levels in it (nor will there be in Hall of Fame). Both packs will feature Sliders and Laserers, though (which did not yet appear in my latest pack, Lemmings Open Air).
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on July 19, 2023, 10:34:10 PM
Looks like I deleted the original Photoshop files for the modified logos and rank signs for both Hall of Fame and Drugs & Rock 'n Roll - when I got rid of that old "Interim New Formats" folder recently (version 12.6). :forehead:
My system images from 2020 and 2022 somehow can't be accessed, because Windows asks me to format those system image files when I want to open them. Otherwise, I could have gone back there to check the New-Formats 12.6 folder.

Luckily, I wasn't planning to make any further changes to the logo or menu signs - with the exception of that one ugly-looking comma I had originally added to the Lemmings, Drugs, & Rock 'n Roll logo (the comma after "Lemmings", which I had placed on the left side of the logo, before the word "Drugs"). Now all I could do was to manually erase that comma from the PNG file, and repair whatever damage the eraser tool did to the Lemmings logo behind it in the process. I did that with a combination of the color-pickup and filler tool (for the light-green edge of the Lemmings logo), and for the dark-green gradient of the font itself, I just copied that over from the Lemmings World Tour logo.

This is what it used to look like:

(https://i.imgur.com/b4eK1Nf.png)

This is what it looks like now (I've also changed it in the opening post):

(https://i.imgur.com/rcGOqIO.png)

The silver lining of the original Photoshop file being lost is that, had I modified the font fields instead, the positioning of the word "Drugs" would have been affected. So perhaps it's for the better this way. :crylaugh:
The most effortful part of creating the logo was putting the guitar in the left lemming's hands anyway (because I had to duplicate some pieces and place those layers above the guitar while erasing the rest).
And that's the part I can always keep reusing from the Lemmings World Tour logo. So if need be, I could recreate the rest manually, and use the existing PNG file as an overlay, to make sure everything lands in the exact same spot. But so far, as long as I don’t want to make any changes to the logos, there is no need to.

TL;DR: Everything in the menu (for this pack and Hall of Fame) will still look the same as shown so far; I can just no longer (or at least not as easily as I would have liked to) make any changes to the logos or menu signs.
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: kaywhyn on July 20, 2023, 11:18:06 AM
I definitely appreciate Jeremy's interest in this pack of Strato's, but yea, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Sometime ago, when he reached out to me for assistance with conversion of existing packs to SuperLemmix, including some of yours Strato, I was very confused as to what the rush and hurry to do so was. I do understand Jeremy was trying to put time to good use as he's not able to move around much and is recovering from an auto accident right now, but I do not see converting packs to SuperLemmix as an absolute necessity in any way, especially as I'm not interested whatsoever in this undertaking. There were plenty of levels that threw out errors in the process, and I couldn't bother myself to figure out why those problematic levels wouldn't convert at all. Nope, not going waste my time just to figure out how to resolve those issues, especially given my current hiatus from the game of Lemmings and my wishes to not be disturbed on that front.

It's important to realize that if the same pack exists on multiple engines that it's a lot of maintenance work for the author. For example, if I'm not mistaken, I think Strato is currently the only author to maintain both the Old Formats and New Formats NL versions of LWT. Meaning, he first makes fixes for Old Formats LWT and then pretty much releases the same fixes to the corresponding levels for New Formats.

Icho is the only other author whose Reunion pack is on Old Formats and New Formats, and even on Lemmini, as it was originally for that engine. However, he only maintains the New Formats version of the pack to this day. Any backroutes that still exist for Old Formats and Lemmini won't be fixed. Instead, all he does with those other two is make sure the download link is fine.

In any case, yes, definitely looking forward to Drugs, Rock and Roll and the finished product whenever it's done and ready! :thumbsup: It won't be for a while, Strato's current priority is finishing the other pack that's a WIP, Hall of Fame.

@Strato

Not sure if you ever saw it on my YT channel, but I do have a LP of Lemmings 3D for Dos if you're interested in that ;)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJuJwy0hXSuM-vucom5aK78M (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJuJwy0hXSuM-vucom5aK78M)

Keep in mind I played the game for the very first time last summer, hence the main reason I struggled with the controls. However, after several levels I started enjoying the game and definitely made me wonder why I never ever played it :laugh:

And yes, I eventually do have plans to play namida's Lemmings Plus 3D pack ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on July 20, 2023, 09:20:14 PM
I haven't really had the chance to delve into Loap or Lemmings Plus 3D yet, so yes, that will definitely be interesting to see. ;)

Speaking of which, here's another one more in a Lemmings-3D style again - one I forgot last time:

(https://i.imgur.com/b2kcrDH.png)
Chocolate salty balls
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on August 05, 2023, 02:18:12 PM
Now that Lemmings Hall of Fame is completed, I can continue working on this one. I've come up with the solutions for a few levels for which I had only created the terrain previously.

DIGITAL / COMPUTER
(https://i.imgur.com/CoiSrGO.png)
Video Game Song

ARMY
(https://i.imgur.com/huLElIv.png)
'Murica (F*ck Yeah)

CLASSIC / LEMGO
(https://i.imgur.com/dENe5Jp.png)
Pyongyang

This one is inspired by the L3D level "Dot to Dot" - I've added a new background to my strato_generalmd tileset, since I couldn't find one featuring red stars among any of the existing backgrounds.

ALIEN
(https://i.imgur.com/V4ioIyh.png)
Major Tom
Title: Re: Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll
Post by: Strato Incendus on August 11, 2023, 07:38:17 PM
I don't have any feedback on Lemmings Hall of Fame yet, so here's three more levels for this pack:

GOLF
(https://i.imgur.com/a5x6Syu.png)
Trinidad

CIRCUS
(https://i.imgur.com/JcsPaZp.png)
What a feeling

CANDY
(https://i.imgur.com/LQkU1IW.png)
I believe in miracles