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NeoLemmix => NeoLemmix Main => Topic started by: namida on October 04, 2019, 07:48:17 PM

Title: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC6 update]
Post by: namida on October 04, 2019, 07:48:17 PM
At this point, the target date for V12.7.0 stable is November 9th.

The Release Candidate build for V12.7.0 is now here.

Known bugs / issues (click to show/hide)

Matters still under discussion between RC and stable (click to show/hide)

Download V12.7.0-RC6: https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?id=333
If you have a previous V12.7.0-RC build, please delete the "styles" folder (make sure to back up any WIP styles that aren't in the standard download first!) before extracting this over the top of it.
The download includes the latest (V12.7-ready) editor, as well as the "Style127Fixer" tool which can be used to automate most of the style updating. However - unless you've got unreleased styles, you probably don't need to use this tool - all styles included in the download have already been updated.

If you have a custom hotkey setup you'd like to keep, run the new version once, then copy settings/hotkeys.ini across from your V12.6.5 folder; it's completely compatible with V12.7.0.

Please keep in mind that most content made for V12.7.0 will not be compatible with older releases. The exception is replay files; V12.7.0 replays will work fine with at least V12.6.5 (probably with any new-formats version, or at least any V12.6.X, but I make no guarantees beyond V12.6.5).

"What is a Release Candidate build in the context of NeoLemmix?" (click to show/hide)

Changelog from V12.6.5 (click to show/hide)
Editor V1.15 changelog (click to show/hide)

I will stress again - levels saved in Editor V1.15 or higher will not be compatible with V12.6.5 or earlier. If you intend to release your content before V12.7.0's stable release, please continue using Editor V1.14 for now.

For upgrading content, please refer to the tutorials board posts on Level and Style formats, or to this topic: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4442.0

The included "styles fixer" tool can be put inside a style's base folder and run, to quickly update the styles. This covers text file changes, as well as the "_mask.png" deprecation in lemming sprites.

Please report any bugs you find! One of the two major reasons for the RC build is to avoid the stable build needing several updates (like V12.6.X did). The other of course, is to give creators some time to get their content updated before the stable release hits, with a version that they can be fairly confident will have only the bare minimum necessary changes.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: Strato Incendus on October 04, 2019, 08:00:06 PM
If we continue to use Editor 1.14 for now, does this mean we should also keep player 12.6.5 to go along with it? As I said before, my conversion of Lemmings World Tour is almost complete, so converting every single level once again, this time to editor 1.15, is not exactly something I'm looking forward to, especially since you're currently advising against it yourself.

I guess you're doing so because you want to avoid people creating levels with editor 1.15 that have no backwards compatibility and then might be incompatible with the stable version 12.7. as well in case further things about the editor change?
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: namida on October 04, 2019, 08:03:10 PM
Basically - anything that works on V12.6.X will work on V12.7.0 (and 12.8.0, and 12.9.0), except for the custom pickup skill objects. However, V12.7.0 content generally won't work with V12.6.X - it's backwards-compatible, but not forwards-compatible. If you prefer, you can continue working on your LWT conversion in V12.6.5 / editor V1.14, then just update the levels to V12.7.0 later - at the latest, during V12.9.X's time, but I would suggest don't put it off to the last minute, especially since this is a very easy task. (For reference - across all my packs combined, I found four broken replays. Two were due to trigger area changes, and two were already-broken replays in unreleased levels that I hadn't picked up on before.)

I'm not at all advising against updating your content - to the contrary, I advise that you do update the content, but just hold off on releasing it until V12.7.0-stable is released (sometime next month, probably more towards the start, all going well). In terms of updating levels, this is very easy - just run them through "Cleanse Levels" (press F8 on title screen, then look in the "Cleanse" folder), run a mass replay test just to be safe, and you should be good to go.

The one thing you'd need to do manually, is restore any anti-splat pads you previously had in your levels and want to put back. Automated tools aren't smart enough to pick up on this, unfortunately. EDIT: And, if you're using custom pickup skill objects that haven't yet been re-created for V12.7.X, you'll need to manually handle the levels that contain them. Likewise, if you want to switch from defaults to custom ones on certain levels (eg. any levels using LPVI styles, as these have had custom pickup skill objects added now), this also needs to be done manually.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: IchoTolot on October 04, 2019, 08:34:47 PM
Tested my content with the RC: There are a few replays breaking and I don't know the reason.

Were some changes made to L2_Space? ??? Especially with teleporter heavy levels, I have a few assignments suddenly not working anymore.

With the machine tileset: I would love details which changes were made there. You mentioned changes therefore I see why this 1 replay breaks, but details would be nice.

It ain't much replays that need to be updated, but I would like to know what causes the breakage.

I have 1 level not loading, but I know why as dux_renaissance needs updated custom pick-up sprites.

To the shrunken firepits:

Well, for me I would need to reedit almost every fire level I maintain as I usually place them on solid ground as decoration. Also they seem to be out of place horizontally as well.
Let's say after seeing the effects I am not a fan of the shrunken version and it would mean tons of extra work for me (and I bet for everyone here as well) and as I know the usual effort into fixing levelpacks here I would assume to would lead to a ton of weird looking fire levels that won't ever be fixed.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: namida on October 05, 2019, 12:25:19 AM
Quote
Were some changes made to L2_Space? ??? Especially with teleporter heavy levels, I have a few assignments suddenly not working anymore.

My first suspicion is that something's going wrong with the teleporter/receiver timings, in which case, this would be a bug.

Quote
With the machine tileset: I would love details which changes were made there. You mentioned changes therefore I see why this 1 replay breaks, but details would be nice.

No changes to the machine set; so this might again be teleporter related. (Although weird that none of my own levels broke.) See commit 375b7b9.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: namida on October 05, 2019, 04:09:53 AM
Reported on Discord: Cleanse levels just quits if it encounters a level with style errors (most likely, due to them containing now-removed custom pickup skills). IMO - it should give a user friendly error message and skip that level instead, or even better, remove the piece and alert the user to that it's done so. EDIT: Fixed in source code, to the "give user friendly error and skip the level" extent. Will look into how feasible it is to implement the latter idea.

In regards to the above - I haven't had any issues with my own levels, so would be helpful if you could provide an example replay. (I recall there was a teleporter-heavy level in United that I've completed that uses the L2 Space set?) My guess - this might be a side effect of the fixes to the "new action doesn't interrupt replay on same frame" bug.

Definitely don't throw old replays away yet. Unless one of the mentioned physics changes (including the trigger area changes) explains it, anything that worked in V12.6.5 but not in V12.7.0-RC is likely a bug.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: IchoTolot on October 05, 2019, 07:53:32 AM
I've got 3 replays affected, I've attached them. :)

2 are from rank 4 of United. 1 is from the bonus rank.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: namida on October 05, 2019, 06:57:49 PM
This is mostly notes to self - I've been looking so far at "Beware Of The Overload". The replay first diverges, from what I can see, at the basher at frame 2109, and seems to be due to the lemming being one frame ahead of where he should be, or possibly, due to the assignment getting delayed until one frame later than it should. I can definitely confirm the issue is reproduced - the replay solves for me on V12.6.5 but not on V12.7.0-RC. (Or at least, doesn't diverge at this point. I didn't watch it right to the end, as I figured I had enough information to start looking into this issue.)

EDIT: I've narrowed the origin of this bug down to a few specific potential commits - 770842F, CCF2D35 or 431F48F. These are three sequential commits, only one of which actually compiles.
EDIT: 770842F is the offender. Just need to figure out why.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: namida on October 05, 2019, 08:05:31 PM
Uploaded V12.7.0-RC:AB926CB.

Changes:
- The above bug (which turned out to specifically relate to flipped receivers).
- If the Cleanse Levels feature encounters an error on any level, it notifies the user and skips that level, instead of terminating without explanation.

Quote
Well, for me I would need to reedit almost every fire level I maintain as I usually place them on solid ground as decoration. Also they seem to be out of place horizontally as well.

To clarify - the trigger area is unchanged; the visual has been modified to accurately reflect the trigger area. This means it's shrunk inwards by 2px on all three sides. If your level breaks visually, it was misleading physics-wise before.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: IchoTolot on October 05, 2019, 09:05:50 PM
Alright, everything solves now again. :thumbsup:

(Apart of the 1 renaissance level which needs updated custom pickups)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: grams88 on October 05, 2019, 09:40:01 PM
For my packs I'm just using the traditional skills, I haven't used any new skills yet so hoping that might make it easier when it comes to updating it so to say. I have been using the vertical one for levels sometimes.

Are there any more traditionalists like myself, I think Crane might be one as well but I'm hoping its not a small amount of people.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: namida on October 05, 2019, 09:54:08 PM
It won't make any difference; but if all you've made is levels, updating is very easy either way. Go to your pack's title screen in NeoLemmix, press F8. Now, look in the new folder "Cleanse" (in your NeoLemmix folder), you have an updated copy of all your levels. :) Remember - these will only work with V12.7.0 or higher, so shouldn't be used for released copies until V12.7.0 stable is released (but can be used to prepare for that, or for test versions, etc).

In terms of traditionalists - there definitely are other users here who prefer to stick to traditional stuff too. At any rate, I very much doubt anyone's going to dislike your packs just because you don't use new things - one of the most highly-regarded packs, Lemmings Reunion, doesn't use any new features apart from a few custom tilesets.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: Crane on October 06, 2019, 09:35:15 AM
I have a showcase/test level for 12.7.0-RC.  This is my planned "Chaos 30" level, named "Last Lemming Standing".  It's not particularly difficult, just unique!  It has both neutral lemmings and zombies.  Let me know how it goes (also attached the level's tune).

I've noticed a couple of things.

EDIT: Version 2 uploaded.  It's not really something that one can fix backroutes for, since the skillset makes the solution open-ended.  Getting the Talisman is not easy though!
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: namida on October 06, 2019, 11:01:14 PM
For the brick water - if someone wants to submit a new animation (as the trigger areas on official styles are now considered to be finalized) that resembles the original but fits the swimmer height a bit better, I'm happy to add it into NL.

For the neutral lemming permanent skills - I agree; I've noted this in the original post, and will make this change before the stable release.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: Crane on October 06, 2019, 11:57:21 PM
I got a couple of suggestions with the neutral lemmings (besides their appearance... they look like Stoners!)
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: Crane on October 07, 2019, 01:45:24 AM
The final one, which is probably completely unnecessary... can "NEUTRAL" become "EXITER" if they make it to an exit? Just a silly idea since they worked in your favour.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: namida on October 07, 2019, 11:49:14 PM
I mentioned on Discord that I agree re: neutral-zombie, however, I now remember why I distinguished these: So that the player can tell whether a given zombie was originally a neutral or not. Maybe this isn't important. Does anyone think this should be kept? If not, I'll remove it.

Does anyone agree with Crane regarding the neutral count on mouse-over? This could be slightly difficult (though not overly so) to implement, so I'd rather only do it if there's wide interest - but I'm happy to do it if there is.

As mentioned on Discord, I don't think making a special case for Neutral-Exiter is worthwhile.

The suggested change to always display neutral lemming skills when moused-over has been implemented, and will be in the next RC update.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release
Post by: namida on October 08, 2019, 12:35:26 AM
Uploaded V12.7.0-RC3. Changes:
- Main menu actually displays the RC build number now (ie: "RC3", not just "RC").
- A different graphic for orig_fire:firepit and orig_fire:firepit_blue. This is still not considered finalized; this is just a different proposal from the one in previous builds (which is not ruled out either; this is more just a "try a few out" thing).
- When mouse-overing a neutral lemming, the permanent skill icons for it will always be shown, even outside of clear physics mode (this is the same as what already happens with zombies).
- Fixed the bugs relating to the coloring of the alive lemming count.

The update link in the first post can be used to update from either previous V12.7.0-RC build.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC3 update]
Post by: Crane on October 08, 2019, 05:14:25 AM
In regards to whether a zombie was originally neutral or normal, I think the colour is enough of an indicator.  Speaking of colour, is there a consensus on the colour theme that we're going for?  One thing to note is that there's currently no clear distinction between neutrals that have permanent skills and those that don't (my level, "Last Lemming Standing", is a good indicator of this, as it has both zombies and neutrals with a mixture of permanent skills and those without).
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC3 update]
Post by: Crane on October 08, 2019, 07:42:28 AM
P.S. Here's version 3 of my showcase level.  I've added some extra graphics, fixed a certain water pit and the talisman is now tougher to get (9 minutes instead of 10 minutes).  Music file can be found on the previous page.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC3 update]
Post by: namida on October 08, 2019, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: Crane on October 08, 2019, 05:14:25 AM
In regards to whether a zombie was originally neutral or normal, I think the colour is enough of an indicator.  Speaking of colour, is there a consensus on the colour theme that we're going for?  One thing to note is that there's currently no clear distinction between neutrals that have permanent skills and those that don't (my level, "Last Lemming Standing", is a good indicator of this, as it has both zombies and neutrals with a mixture of permanent skills and those without).

Ah, I interpreted your suggestion as "if a neutral gets infected, he's now only a zombie (not also a neutral)", not just "the help text only displays Zombie, not N-Zombie, but he retains neutral appearance features".

There hasn't been any further discussion on appearance since the RC build dropped (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4428.0). If there's another RC update, I should put one of the alternate proposals in it. Or, you can try it yourself by modifying styles/default/lemmings/scheme.nxmi - not the "LEMMING_NEUTRAL_xxxx" lines at the start (those relate to the recoloring for different styles), the $NEUTRAL sections a bit further down, and specifically the "TO" lines in these.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC3 update]
Post by: namida on October 23, 2019, 01:20:47 AM
A somewhat major bug I've found in the current RC build: If you run the "Cleanse Levels" feature on a level that contains neutral lemmings, those lemmings will be reverted to regular lemmings.

This will be fixed in the stable version or the next RC update, but please watch out for this for now.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC4 update]
Post by: namida on October 23, 2019, 02:48:52 AM
Uploaded V12.7.0-RC4 update.

Changes:
- The new firepit graphic has also been applied to the firepit in ichotolot_dune.
- Adopted Crane's proposal for neutral lemming appearances (with a very slight tweak to the exact color). Xmas sprites have a similar setup.
- Fixed bug: Cleansing levels reverts any neutral lemmings to regular ones.
- Fixed bug: Further issues with alive lemming count coloring. It should be correct at all times now.

The update link in the first post can be used to update from any previous V12.7.0-RC build.

I'd also like to remind people to look at the "Matters still under discussion" on the first post, and give their feedback if they have any.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC5 update]
Post by: namida on October 27, 2019, 02:37:20 AM
Uploaded V12.7.0-RC5 update.

Changes:
- L3_Shadow one way arrows now move in the same direction they point.
- Fixed bug: levels.nxmi files still use "$RANK" instead of "$GROUP". (Like all other format changes, BC exists until V12.10.0.)
- Fixed bug: RR changes while paused are not reflected on the skill panel correctly.

This update also comes with Editor V1.16. This editor fixes a bug when loading old-format levels.


At this stage - is there anyone who isn't happy with the current proposals (ie: what's included with V12.7.0-RC5) for the fire pit object graphics and/or neutral lemming appearances? I would like to consider these issues "wrapped up" soon.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC5 update]
Post by: namida on November 01, 2019, 11:40:58 PM
Alright, from this point - no further suggestions / "how should this work" changes*; only bugfixes or style updates.

* By this, I mean "specifically for V12.7's release". You're still welcome to make suggestions, but they'll have to wait for V12.8 to actually be implemented.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC5 update]
Post by: namida on November 03, 2019, 01:27:44 AM
Quote from: namida on October 04, 2019, 07:48:17 PM
Matters still under discussion between RC and stable
- Neutral lemmings - do we want a count to be displayed when mousing over?

Any further input on this? It seems that aside from the person who initially mentioned this, no one's too fussed about it. (Of course, this feature can come later, so it's not critical to decide now.) It would be a bit of extra work to get this done, so while I'm happy to do it if there is enough interest, I'm not going to do it if there isn't.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC6 update]
Post by: namida on November 03, 2019, 01:57:49 AM
Uploaded V12.7.0-RC6. This will very likely be the final RC build, and I expect that there will be no further changes (except maybe the above issue) between this and stable version, except for styles.

Download link is in first post. Please note - unlike previous updates, this one is not provided as an update package, it's a full redownload (due to certain files being removed from the styles).

Changes:
- Various styles updates.
- Added a "piece alias" capability, to allow one piece or style name to be redirected to another - for example it's used with the removed duplicate piece in namida_circuit to automatically replace the removed version with the non-removed one*. This feature will likely be expanded on in the future.
- orig_dirt_md has been restored.

* To be clear to anyone worried about this: The two pieces in question here are 100% identical. Graphically and physics-wise.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC5 update]
Post by: WillLem on November 05, 2019, 01:22:21 AM
Quote from: namida on November 03, 2019, 01:27:44 AM
Quote from: namida on October 04, 2019, 07:48:17 PM
Matters still under discussion between RC and stable
- Neutral lemmings - do we want a count to be displayed when mousing over?

Any further input on this? It seems that aside from the person who initially mentioned this, no one's too fussed about it. (Of course, this feature can come later, so it's not critical to decide now.) It would be a bit of extra work to get this done, so while I'm happy to do it if there is enough interest, I'm not going to do it if there isn't.

SL does this. It's a fairly useful feature, but if it's a lot of work then NL already has plenty of Lemming selection/control features which would make this one simply a pleasant add-on.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC6 update]
Post by: namida on November 05, 2019, 01:26:51 AM
Quote from: WillLem on November 05, 2019, 01:22:21 AM
Quote from: namida on November 03, 2019, 01:27:44 AM
Quote from: namida on October 04, 2019, 07:48:17 PM
Matters still under discussion between RC and stable
- Neutral lemmings - do we want a count to be displayed when mousing over?

Any further input on this? It seems that aside from the person who initially mentioned this, no one's too fussed about it. (Of course, this feature can come later, so it's not critical to decide now.) It would be a bit of extra work to get this done, so while I'm happy to do it if there is enough interest, I'm not going to do it if there isn't.

SL does this. It's a fairly useful feature, but if it's a lot of work then NL already has plenty of Lemming selection/control features which would make this one simply a pleasant add-on.

SuperLemmini doesn't have neutral lemmings, so I'm pretty sure it doesn't display a count of neutrals on mouseover.

If you're thinking about for regular lemmings, NL already does this - it just doesn't do it for zombies or neutrals.
Title: Re: NeoLemmix V12.7.0-RC release [V12.7.0-RC6 update]
Post by: namida on November 07, 2019, 06:31:42 PM
Unless a critical bug is discovered, no further changes to the engine will occur between now and V12.7.0 stable release. Further styles additions / updates may still be submitted. Editor will remain as-is on initial V12.7.0 / editor V1.16 release, but I hope to get an update to it shortly afterwards.