Lemmings Forums
NeoLemmix => NeoLemmix Levels => In Development => Topic started by: Proxima on November 19, 2017, 06:20:15 AM
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This topic is for old-formats Mania. I am open to the idea of rebooting the project in new formats, but if we do, it should be in a new topic.
We've talked about it. Let's get started building it.
Lemmings Mania is a follow-up to Lemmings Redux, and similarly to Redux, every level must be based on a level from one of the original games. However, this time we're not keeping the original solutions but making our own repeats.
Just so we're on the same page, I should clarify that unlike Redux, this is not a group-led project where every single decision is made by establishing consensus and taking a poll if necessary. I'm happy for everyone to give input on how the project should be run and the direction it should take, but I'm going to be acting as team leader and making decisions.
Everyone is welcome to take part! If you want to contribute, then:
* Decide on a level from any of the original games (Lemmings, ONML, Genesis and other ports, Holiday, L2, L3, L3D, Paintball, Revolution, any others I may have forgotten). If it already exists in NeoLemmix, then produce your repeat by editing the original level. Remakes of levels that don't have a NeoLemmix version are welcome.
* Vary the skillset and level statistics to produce a new solution concept. We'll have some any-way-you-want levels to start off the difficulty curve, and some levels will simply enforce challenges on the old levels; but most levels for this project should do something new by using skills that weren't present on the original level, or using them in a way that wasn't possible before.
* If necessary either for your basic solution concept or to prevent backroutes, you can add or move objects or terrain to create slight differences from the original level, like the differences in the "Just a Minute" and "Fall and no life" repeat pairs. This includes "reverse" levels where the entrance and exit are swapped.
* All NeoLemmix skills can be used. Teleporters/receivers, pickup skills and zombies can be used, since these exist in some of the original games, but not the other NeoLemmix objects.
* All levels should have a distinct title from the original. If you can't think of a title, you can leave it and I'll try to come up with one.
* Don't include music. I'm going to have a music rotation for the pack using music from the original games beyond the Lemmings/ONML music used for Redux.
* You can also nominate existing levels from other packs, whether they are by you or another author, so long as they meet the condition of being a repeat of an original level.
Let's see what we can come up with between us, and above all, have fun! :thumbsup:
Levels nominated so far:
Up and In Lemmings (ONML - Down and Out Lemmings - bsmith)
The Date / The Dance (2P - The Duel - GigaLem)
Everything to stride for / Everything to cry for (2P - Still everything to play for - GigaLem)
Two for the price of One (2P - One On One - GigaLem)
Lemmings on Vacation (L2 - Quad Quirks on the Quay! - Yung Gotenks)
Boiler Workers (L1 PSP - Lemming toast - Nessy)
Containment (L1 - No added colours or lemmings - Nessy)
Subterranean Safe House (L1 - Last one out is a rotten egg - Nessy)
Symmetry Mansion (2P - May the craftiest player win - Nessy)
(A number of L3D levels by Flopsy, see post below)
Upwardly Ascending Lemmings (ONML - Downwardly Mobile Lemmings - Yung Gotenks)
The Green Zone (L3 - Classic Level 1 - Yung Gotenks)
No Rests Allowed (Genesis - Take a little rest - Yung Gotenks)
The Metal Mines (NES - A Spot of Bother - Yung Gotenks)
Talisman ideas
Up and In Lemmings - 3 of each skill
Upwardly Ascending Lemmings - 8 builders
No Rests Allowed - Save 100%
The Metal Mines - 7 builders
The thing can be done! - 2 diggers
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Yay, the new project begins!
I have one level idea right now, attached. I will almost certainly come up with more ideas.
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Might as well submit mine
These are remakes of 2 player levels, 3 so far, with repeats using NL skills
Though this is called Lemmings Mania, I was thinking that Someone should pull a "Sonic Mania" and make at most four and at least two Brand new graphic sets to go with the Original graphic sets.
Like new ones from scratch.
I'd say suggest some new ones here, but also pull some candidates from the Tileset Ideas Thread (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1585.0) and find something that works well.
plus if any spriters around here would want to test thier metal in making the sets I was thinking this should be thier window
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Here's mine. it's a Lemmings 2 level.
Not gonna spoil which tribe and level it's from, but from the title i'm pretty sure you can guess.
EDIT: updated. added more skills so a alternate route is possible
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Here is my first wave of contributes:
Lemming Toast: Boiler Workers
No Added Colours Or Lemmings: Containment
Down And Out Lemmings: Roadblocks
Last One Out Is A Rotten Egg!: Subterranean Safe House
May The Craftiest Player Win: Symmetry Mansion
Please let me know which levels have too much changes.
EDIT:
Containment: Lowered Lemming count to 30
Boiler Workers: Fixed backroute (couldn't turn it into a talisman :()
Subterranean Safe House: Added floater
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I also made a Lemmings 2 Players remake for Lemmings in Arms, but since i don't see it in gigalem's post, i'll post it here.
i still plan to contribute more.
Original Level: Just for the fun or to the death?
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Thanks everyone. I'm really happy to see this taking off so quickly 8-)
The first post now includes a zip of all the levels so far, and I'll keep this updated as more come in.
For now, everything is included, as I'm not making any definite decisions about inclusion; but I probably won't use the following levels:
Two On One: Contains zombies.
Roadblocks: Too many differences from the original terrain.
Just for fun or to the death: Remake of a level that already exists in NL; too different from original layout.
Though this is called Lemmings Mania, I was thinking that Someone should pull a "Sonic Mania" and make at most four and at least two Brand new graphic sets to go with the Original graphic sets.
Like new ones from scratch.
Having one special graphics level per rank isn't a bad idea, but the problem is, what would we do for layouts, given the theme of using only original layouts? I'm going to leave this question open for now and see how we get on. One possibility is to include repeats of the existing special graphics levels, although I do have another idea that could work. But I certainly don't think making brand-new tilesets is the way to go.
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Didn't Lemmings Revolution had Weasels which act like zombies?
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Fair point. They're not identical, but I can see that you might want zombies to represent the weasels in a Revolution level, or the second player in a 2P level. So I've added zombies to the list of features it's okay to use.
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Here's a tweak of "Flow Control."
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Here are my SEB Lems levels which are inspired from L3D levels. I'll let you lot in the topic decide whether in this form, these levels are acceptable for the project or whether someone needs to make a remake of these levels.
From first glance: Lemmtris 3D, HMS Hamish Macbeth, It's the Name of the Game, Sweet Memories, The Big Bang and This is NOT a drill are probably the same as their original levels only transformed into 2D.
Paradise 10 - Lemmtris 3D (remake of Lemmtris - a complete 2D level)
Paradise 11 - Party in my Head (inspired by Let the Race Begin - a complete 2D level)
Paradise 16 - It's the Name of the Game (same name in L3D - a completely 2D level pretty much)
Bittersweet 3 - Sweet Memories (remake of Jelly Belly Birthday Cake - 3D level reimagined in 2D)
Bittersweet 5 - HMS Hamish Macbeth (Remake of This is the Army - another practically 2D level)
Bittersweet 8 - The Acrobrats (Remake of That's Right - 2D level but another trapdoor added in SEB Lems version)
Revolution 13 - The Big Bang (Remake of Picky Platform - Another mostly 2D level)
Stormy 5 - This is NOT a drill (Remake of Team Work - 3D level reimagined in 2D)
Stormy 12 - SNAKE! (Remake of SNAKE! - 3D level reimagined in 2D)
Murder 1 - The Five Arches (Remake of The Five Arches - Another mostly 2D level)
Deep Cuts 1 - Industrial Climber Zone (Inspired by Jelly Climber)
Deep Cuts 4 - Pseudologia Fantastica (Remake of Play Time - 3D level reimagined in 2D)
Could I have 2nd opinions on these levels from anyone who has played 3D Lemmings on whether these are considered suitable repeats or whether they are exactly the same as their original levels.
I also have my own remake of I am A.T - I am A.Typical
Hopefully this is an acceptable remake :)
EDIT: attached marble_md.dat which is required for I am A.Typical
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Here's another contribution.
It's Called "Upwardly Ascending Lemmings"
It's a repeat of "Downwardly Mobile Lemmings"
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Here is another contribution. It's my version of "Snuggle Up To A Lemming" called "Western Outpost". My goal was to make this a "Tricky" kind of level that has enough flexibility to allow multiple solutions. There might be a tailsman for this level but I don't have an idea for that yet.
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I might make some recreations sometime again but I do want to make suggestions for Ranks
Fanatic
Lunatic
Addict
Maniac
I may think of more if we go for five ranks
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Continuing the discussion on the L3D levels I submitted, I've broken down the levels into what I think is already a remake of the 3D level for what it is in 2D and what is actually considered a "repeat".
These are of course my opinions as the level creator, if you disagree with this then speak up.
Remakes - requires someone to make a new solution out of to be eligible.
Lemmtris 3D - skillset, RR, save requirement and level name are exactly the same.
It's The Name of the Game - 3 of every skill but level name, RR and save requirement the same.
Sweet Memories - Remake of "Jelly Belly Birthday Cake". Skillset and save requirement the same.
HMS Hamish Macbeth - Remake of "This is the Army". Similar level layout and solution.
The Big Bang - *debatable* Remake of Picky Platform. Original solution is impossible in NeoLemmix but tried to stick to the original solution as much as possible. Debatable whether this is classed as a remake or repeat. Trapdoors and exit are in the same place.
This is NOT a drill - Remake of "Team Work". Based on the original solution with a skillset to enforce it.
The Five Arches - same level name. Skillset to enforce the original solution.
Pseudologia Fantastica - Remake of "Play Time". Same level idea, tweaked to enforce the original solution.
Repeats - different enough to be classed as a repeat and suitable for the level pack as it is.
Party in my Head - differences: significant level layout difference, 1 trapdoor is moved significantly, 1 exit instead of 4, skillset changed.
The Acrobrats - differences: 2 trapdoors instead of 1, significant skillset change
SNAKE! - Imagine this one from a birdseye view and the level will match the 3D Lemmings version. It was the only way to get this to work in 2D. I'd consider this a repeat because the end of the level is different. However this level needs a new name because it is the exact same as the 3D Lemmings level.
Industrial Climber Zone - multiple exits, all but one of which is impossible to get to.
Any agreement or disagreement with what I say above?
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Continuing the discussion on the L3D levels I submitted, I've broken down the levels into what I think is already a remake of the 3D level for what it is in 2D and what is actually considered a "repeat".
I think the levels I consider repeats instead of remakes are the following:
- It's The Name Of The Game: Having 3 of everything makes me think the official level is the harder repeat and this would make an excellent early level for the pack.
- The Big Bang: This one is a bit debatable, but I say the solution is different enough for this to be a repeat.
- Party In My Head
- The Acrobrats
- SNAKE!: The idea behind the level is similar to the original but I consider this level using the concept much differently.
- Industrial Climber Zone: Yes, the idea is the same but the obstacles preventing entry in each exit is different from the original, so I consider this a repeat.
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Cool, thanks for that Nessy
It's the Name of the Game and SNAKE will need to be renamed though, I can't really think of names at the moment so I could always leave that to Proxima if nothing comes to mind.
I do very much agree with what you say on all those levels, I just wanted to hear someone else say it rather than be the only one thinking that.
I think what makes The Big Bang significantly different is the fact that the exit is right there and cannot easily be bypassed because of being in the wrong z co-ordinate :P
I didn't even consider the fact that we could have repeats which are easier than the original levels. We shouldn't do that too much though because it could dilute the pack otherwise with easy to make levels. I think with this being a L3D level, this one is an exceptional example because it's a level which many may not have encountered.
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I am submitting several SubLems levels to this pack. In addition to all of the Retro levels (if you are interested) I am also submitting:
Sweet 4: Fun frozen over
Literally, just a repeat of Fun 11 in the Snow tileset, with fewer builders so you cannot build over the structure.
Scary 6: Lemmings in the... basement?
Lemmings in the attic, flipped upside-down.
Scary 7: It's basher-proof!
An alternate version of Sweet 4 with the one way arrows preventing bashers or miners, making it rather different from Fun 11, since it is a remake of a remake; not sure if that counts.
Scary 9: Alternate Ascension Escalation
A version of my I am A.T. remake (detailed below) with far more skills.
Chaotic 5: An evil recreation!
Another remake of Fun 11, this time in the Fire tileset and an even tougher solution.
Insane 3: Mini level marathon
A disjoint union level containing Fun 3, Tricky 18, Tricky 23, and Taxing 10
Hellish 9: I am R.T.
A remake of I am A.T. but even tougher! :evil:
Please feel free to use any of these levels or the Retro levels. All are attached.
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Another contribution. I feel like this one has a low probability of getting in the pack, but here it is.
It's Called "The Green Zone"
It's a repeat of the first classic level in Lemmings 3. Dunno if it has a name.
The level is pretty easy. uses Namida LPII tree tileset
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Sorry I haven't had time to look at very many levels yet. At some point I definitely intend to watch Flopsy's LP of L3D, which will give me more of an idea of how these remakes compare to the original levels, so I won't make any decisions about them before then.
Easy repeats: Yes, these are definitely wanted. I would like Mania, like Redux, to feel like it could have been an original Lemmings game. The first few levels will tutorialise the new NeoLemmix skills (but using repeat levels to do this), and I'll make sure that any features used in a level that ends up making the cut get a proper introduction level early on. The rest of the first rank should contain a selection of any-way-you-want levels and easy puzzles, similar to the first rank of Redux. Since levels of this type are pretty easy to make, I don't mind leaving them until late and doing them myself if others don't 8-)
The Green Zone: As submitted, too similar in concept to Upwardly Mobile, it's just building up. But I would like to use the layout, since it's from L3. I've changed the hatch and exit locations to make this into a stackers and walkers tutorial. What do others think of this version, is it okay?
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That's good, Proxima.
Here's ANOTHER contribution. I'm having so much fun making these.
Idk if you've noticed, but most of my contributions so far are just entrance and exit switches and skill set changes, but in the future, i'll just mix the skill set up to make it harder.
Repeat of the genesis level "Take a little rest" called "No Rests Allowed"
Requires the dirt_md tileset which is attached if you need it.
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Ey Proxima, can you post a replay of you saving 100% on no rests allowed? even i can't do it :P
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No problemming 8-)
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I also figured out a way to save 100% on "No Rests Allowed." Would make for a good talisman, methinks.
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While working on Remakes (or Demakes rather) I think we should come up with some exceptions for Neolemmix objects.
Updrafts should only be allowed if you want to recreate the springs in Lemmings 2 or Lemmings 3D
I've made a tutorial level that's a recreation of "the diving board" from Lemmings 3D. because of the lack of springs I used Updrafts and Gliders.
I believe Spliters were in Lemmings 3D.
If there are other exceptions to the rule, suggest now.
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I've updated the zip in the first post with everything submitted so far, including three levels from my ResEdit set:
Drop the Dead Lemming (Smile if you love lemmings)
Lift us up where we belong (Just a Minute (Part Two))
It's all about survival (Nightmare on Lem street)
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Here's a repeat from NES Lemmings:
The Metal Mines (A Spot of Bother)
If you think of a possible talisman for this let me know.
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Wasn't sure about a good talisman for the "The Metal Mines". A possible one was "solve with only 7 builders". I attached a replay of that solution below. It can probably go lower, but maybe this is a good starting point ???
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Saving 100% through any means seems like it may be impossible on that one... Also, nice 100 minute time limit :P
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Here's my replay for 100% saved.
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Another good source of levels for this project is the many challenges that exist for the original levels -- though please avoid repeating any that were used as talismans in Redux. Also, if you make a level based on a challenge, put "Challenge" as the author name, as it's often unclear who first originated a particular challenge.
I've updated the zip in the first post with a fix to "It's all about survival"; added "The Metal Mines"; and added three levels based on challenges:
The thing can be done! (We all fall down - 10 diggers) (talisman: 2 diggers)*
Ascending and Descending (Tribute to M.C. Escher - 100% with only builders and the floater)
A Walk on the Wild Side (Where Lemmings Dare - 100%)
* Sorry about the cheesy title. This is what I called this level in my ResEdit set when I was a kid.
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Two more replays for The Metal Mines: 6 builders, and 7 builders 100% saved.
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Here are three more levels:
Haunted Botanical Garden: The Chaos Beauty (some minimal terrain changes and removed hidden traps)
No Justice For The Hero: Chain Gang (has two intended solutions)
Get A Little Extra Help: Little Helpers (an easy level for a change :P)
EDIT:
Chain Gang: Was not happy with one of the solutions so I took it out.
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Nessy asked about the 13-builder solution to Ascending and Descending, so here it is. (Possible talisman?) Also re-fixed It's all about survival.
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So it has been a while... :(
Here are my next wave of contributions:
Here Is Mr. Lemming's House: How To Escape An Asylum
AAARRRGGGHHH!!!: "I Wanna Be Over There!"
Flow Control: Trust The Flow
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I think its good to bring this thread up again.
And I still want to do those "New sets" for mania