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Other Lemmings Projects => Levels for other engines => Topic started by: kieranmillar on April 17, 2017, 07:34:07 am

Title: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 Development Thread
Post by: kieranmillar on April 17, 2017, 07:34:07 am
This pack has been released, please download from the release thread: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3655.0

Welcome to my Lemmings 2 : The Tribes level pack, Quest From Kieran 2!

The gimmick of this pack is that each of the tribes has its own set of 8 thematically-appropriate skills, and their levels use only those skills. I hope this means each tribe not only looks different, but plays differently too!

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. As the author it can be hard to spot when levels are broken, or completely misjudge the perceived difficulty of a level so the ordering might be totally out of whack. Unfortunately there's no replay feature, but if you think you've broken a level a description of how you solved it should be all I need.

Note that this is a "save everyone" pack. Every level has 100% save requirement for gold, except for the Classic Tribe, where the number you are allowed to lose and still get gold is stated in the title for each of their levels.

Apologies that some levels might need some pixel perfect skill use. I've tried to go to lengths to avoid it where possible, but with Lemmings 2's 8x16 grid, there's only so much you can do with terrain placement.

An enormous thank you for GuyPerfect's lgl2 and geoo's L2suite. Two amazing tools that made all of this possible.

Where is Quest From Kieran 1?
It's in development, I started fiddling around with the Neolemmix editor but then had ideas for Lemmings 2 and I'm not one to squander a creative splurge, so it's on the backburner until the ideas stop coming for Lemmings 2.

Meet the Tribes!

Beach
Like, we're totally gonna get you that talisman piece from the clams that stole it dude, but, like, there's this totally sick bunch of waves coming and I'm, like, totally there man! Surf's up dude!

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/beach.png)
Level 7: Lifeguard to the Rescue

Cavelems
10,000 years ago lemmingkind first roamed the world and survived using primitive tools. Today those lemmings are... clearly dead, I mean come on man, it was 10,000 years ago! However their memory lives on with a bunch of ironic hipsters who forgo modern technology because it's way too mainstream. But the joke's on them, now they have to deliver the talisman and have to travel by foot. Suckers!

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/cavelems.png)
Level 8: Dino Might

Circus
Roll Up! Roll Up! Come and see the greatest show on Lemming Island! Watch as the incredible SuperLem takes on the trapeze, without a safety net... or a trapeze! Come see our amazing laser display! And watch with amazement as sixty of our finest clowns try to deliver the talisman piece, with hilarious consequences!

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/circus.png)
Level 4: Teeny-Weeny Houdini

Classic
Nobody understands these guys. Everyone else has moved on and developed new tricks, as well as a better social understanding that deaths are often unnecessary, yet this tribe continues to do the same old stuff with the same old tricks over and over again. Legend has it that they've conquered thousands and thousands of landscapes and yet they keep on going, and somehow despite the massive losses there are just so many of them that they never go extinct. Lets hope there's still some of them left by the time they deliver their talisman piece.

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/classic.png)
Level 5: Overflow

Egyptian
Egyptian lore says that one of the gods buried the talisman piece alongside them, but there are so many gods, I guess we'll just have to check every tomb! The Egyptians love their pots, that's why this tribe bought along a whole bunch of them as their only construction skills! Historians are keen to point out that the magic carpet is actually Arabian, and not Egyptian, but the Arabian tribe don't care, they were made extinct a thousand years ago after one of them got drunk and triggered the armageddon.

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/egyptian.png)
Level 3: The Climber's Curse

Highland
After correctly predicting the prophecy of the Darkness befalling Lem Island, the Highland Tribe felt a bit upset that they weren't getting quite the level of thanks they'd hoped for. So Jimmy McLemming held an independence referendum for the Highland Tribe to become their own sovereign group. Unfortunately it quickly occurred to them that they were doomed without the other talisman pieces and so the referendum failed. Dejected and defeated, Jimmy McLemming spent the rest of his days drowning his sorrows with cheap bottles of scotch whiskey, so nothing different to usual really.

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/highland.png)
Level 7: Scaling Lem Nevis

Medieval
The Medieval Tribe prides itself as defender of the realm. Using the swordsmanship, bowmanship and chivalry passed down from generation to generation, Lemming island is safe from all intruders! So who better to deliver the King's talisman piece safely to the ark than 60 of his finest knights? (Actually don't tell them, but the orbital laser satellites launched years ago by the Space Tribe are significantly more effective at defending the realm).

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/medieval.png)
Level 5: Ye Olde Cavern

Outdoor
At last, a tribe that takes place outdoors, if you ignore Beach, Highland, Medieval, Polar, Shadow and Space! And probably Sports too? Is that inside a stadium or in some nightmarish green hellscape dimension? Anyway, don't let the Outdoor Tribe fool you, they love to talk about how they have conquered the great outdoors and live off the land but in reality they've never ventured further than their back garden.

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/outdoor.png)
Level 7: Rocky's Horror Show

Polar
Why would anybody live in the bitterly cold, frigid Northern mountain range of Lemming Island? Easy, it's because there is enormous amounts of oil. And in the process of extracting it all, this tribe has become the experts of excavation and building tall structures. Now you'd think that this meant that when it came time to deliver their talisman piece, they'd be over in a flash using some motorised technology, but no, they keep trying to stick to tradition and deliver it by ski-courier, which would be fine, if the terrible skier physics meant they didn't constantly get in accidents and need to be rescued...

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/polar.png)
Level 5: Living Life on the Edge

Shadow
The masters of stealth, nobody knows where the Shadow Tribe are at any given moment. Which is quite surprising really, given the bright yellow balloons and loud explosions that follow them wherever they go. Maybe it's because everyone else is asleep when they travel during the dead of night. I guess you'll just have to hope that they deliver the talisman piece in time.

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/shadow.png)
Level 4: Flee the Nest

Space
Bad news. In order to fund their space adventures the Space tribe sold off their talisman piece to the weasels years ago. It looks like there's only one solution: buy it back blast off on a risky adventure to the nearest wormhole and pass through it to an alternate dimension where they still own the talisman piece. What could possibly go wrong?

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/space.png)
Level 3: Blast Chamber

Sports
The Sports tribe actually already have the talisman piece to hand, but they've offered it up as first prize to a tournament, so now they have to go win it! Sure, you could argue that the current need for the talisman is more important and could just swap the prize out for something else, but seriously, that is not how sports work! Disclaimer: I have no idea how sports work.

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/sports.png)
Level 5: Uphill Obstacle Course

How to Install
Back up your current Lemmings 2 LEVELS folder, then extract the contents of the zip into there, overwriting the existing files.

How to run Lemmings 2 in DOSBox (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3273)

A Quick Lemmings 2 Refresher

Bonus Downloads!
But wait... you'll find more attached to this post:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {3/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 17, 2017, 06:44:42 pm
Oops.

Normally I always leave a level overnight and revisit it later for a fresh take on things. Helps me catch a lot of errors in my level design.

Sports 2 - Double Back on Yourself was the last level made for this release, and I completed it last night and did not give myself the usual time. Well today while thinking about it I had a brainwave, and it turns out the level is broken. And as I started to fix it, it turns out it was very broken. In all sorts of ways.

Now attached to the first post is a version 2 with this level (hopefully) fixed. No need to redownload if you already grabbed version 1, unless you really really want the fixed version.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {3/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 12:05:52 am
Solved Beach 1-4 before going to bed now. Screenshots of solutions attached.

Love these designs, they feel superior to DMA's L2 levels. Concise, intelligent puzzles that freely take their necessary space, yet are smaller than the DMA levels. Execution problems are unavoidable in L2, but stem from the engine, not from the level design.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {3/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 18, 2017, 06:16:17 am
Thanks for the images, screenshots are an excellent idea! I'm glad you're enjoying it. :)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {3/12 Tribes}
Post by: Ron_Stard on April 19, 2017, 09:19:54 pm
The intended solution for the first Egyptian level is brilliant! I am still figuring out how to solve the other first levels, but they look clever, too! Good job! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 22, 2017, 02:38:57 pm
I had a few updates I wanted to push, but was holding off as I'd started the Space tribe before the first release and was close to finishing it off. Given that nobody has reported finishing what's currently available yet, I felt there was no harm in releasing a single tribe and letting people play it sooner. Download the new version and check out the new tribe blurb in the opening post!

v03 changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: exit on April 24, 2017, 05:52:37 pm
I've finally had time to take a look at the levels, and I managed to complete the Beach tribe.

So far these levels are great! :thumbsup:

Detailed level feedback:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 24, 2017, 06:45:42 pm
Thank you so so much for the detailed screenshots of your solutions. You've found a whole bunch of backroutes, which is great, because now I get to fix them. You did a whole bunch of stuff there that never even crossed my mind, so well done. :8():

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Again, thank you so much for playing and breaking my levels. Expect an update soon with some fixes.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 24, 2017, 07:08:05 pm
New update in the opening post. I call this the Beer Update™!

v04 changelog:

Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: mobius on April 24, 2017, 08:46:37 pm
New update in the opening post. I call this the Beer Update™!

v04 changelog:

  • Shuffled position of Beach 4 Hang Sixty to level 6. Level 5 Cross Shore Winds and level 6 Turn the Tide both moved one slot earlier as a result.
  • Beach 7 Lifeguard to the Rescue - Fixed major backroute with beer.
  • Beach 8 Gnarly 180 Flip - Fixed major backroute with beer.
  • Beach 9 Take the Plunge - Fixed major backroute with beer.
  • Beach 10 Toasted Clam Sand-wiches - Fixed major backroute with beer clams :8():.
  • Space 9 Space Station Skylem - Fixed multiple major backroutes. No beer this time!

is this in reference to a day a few days ago that was national beer day or something like that? I feel like this is a reference I know but forgot.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 24, 2017, 09:02:38 pm
is this in reference to a day a few days ago that was national beer day or something like that? I feel like this is a reference I know but forgot.
No, it's a reference to the fact that fixing the backroutes involved swapping out some terrain objects with the flat-edged beer can terrain object.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on April 24, 2017, 09:48:50 pm
I played through the Beach tribe in V0.4 and saved 58/60. Lots of great levels :thumbsup:, even though fanning together with the general design problems of L2 makes for a very memorable experience :-\.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 24, 2017, 10:25:08 pm
Another huge thanks for the detailed feedback! Very helpful. Will have to think a bit harder about how to fix some of these issues.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Next update will take a bit longer, will have to think hard about some fixes. Thanks again for the screenshots and detailed feedback.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: exit on April 24, 2017, 10:26:25 pm
I'm sad to say that I found some more backroutes, but I think I found an intended solution!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 24, 2017, 11:09:27 pm
exit, can you provide a description of those solutions? It looks like you might have meant to attach screenshots, but would be nice to know what you did as I'll be updating many of those levels in the next update and would be nice to kill multiple backroutes at once (or you may have found intended solutions and would be nice to confirm).
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: exit on April 24, 2017, 11:54:36 pm
Screenshots now attached. :-[
(To previous post)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 25, 2017, 06:31:42 am
Thanks. The good news is, we are getting much closer to the intended solution in some cases.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on April 25, 2017, 05:44:59 pm
Quote
I didn't start the screen up at the top because the top trapdoor opens at stun height, so the sound of the lemmings getting stunned was meant to be a clue that they were up there in case no-one scrolled up that high
Problem with this: The lemmings of the tribes yelp at any occation they can think of (and it feels they do even without having any cause :P). This got so annoying that I turned all sound off after the first two tries on Beach 1...

I solved the next two tribes, Sports and Egypt, both with 60/60. The Egypt levels were very good 8-), but I think I backrouted most of Sport :-[.

Detailed comments on Egypt (click to show/hide)

Detailed comments on Sport (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 25, 2017, 07:57:20 pm
Thanks again for the screenshots and for figuring out some tricky (and sometimes not so tricky :-[ ) backroutes. Glad to see that Egypt is not as broken as the other two tribes, but a bit sad at the sheer number of Sports backroutes. :(

Egyptian
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sports
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on April 25, 2017, 08:12:39 pm
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on April 25, 2017, 08:43:23 pm
Thanks for the replies for the screenshots earlier!

Sports 1-10 on stream, and some Beach (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/138040618)

With geoo and, later, Icho in voicechat. I gave commentary on what I consider intended and what I consider backroutes. geoo has taken screenshots of his solutions, he'll post them eventually.

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 25, 2017, 09:23:40 pm
A video? Amazing! :lem-mindblown: Will definitely watch it all! :D Thanks!

The next update is gonna be huge at this rate. I have changes for 18 levels lined up so far. I cannot believe how many backroutes there are, you are all excellent at finding these. Perhaps a clear sign that I haven't played enough Lemmings?
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: geoo on April 25, 2017, 09:27:19 pm
I solved the first 5 Beach levels from version 3, and then a few more from version 4, and all of the sports level from the race with Simon. Many Beach levels were a bit fiddly, and I suspect many Sports solutions are backroutes, though there were some gems with elegant solutions and clean execution. I'm attaching screenshots and a few comments.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: ccexplore on April 25, 2017, 09:51:03 pm
I cannot believe how many backroutes there are, you are all excellent at finding these. Perhaps a clear sign that I haven't played enough Lemmings?

Nah, it's often just a natural matter of tunnel vision.  As many people here can attest to, the level author is usually the worst at finding backroutes to their own levels, simply because they already have a particular vision on what the solution is "supposed to be", so it becomes that much easier to overlook something you never considered.  Whereas the player has no preconceptions and will try lots of things on their path to a working solution, and so will be more likely to stumble upon something unexpected by the author.  I also think Lemmings 2 with its more complex game physics will make it more likely that some skills or behaviors can be used in ways you never thought of.

It is also fair to say that there are some very good players on this forum. 8-)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 26, 2017, 06:47:25 pm
Thank you all so much for the video and screenshots and feedback. Too many comments at once to respond individually to, but version 5 has been released! I call this the Oh God Everything Is Broken™ update. I've decided to try a less forgiving version of Beach 6 Hang Sixty to try and discourage the fiddly solution people had been trying. Ultimately I think it's slower than the intended solution quite significantly, and so should be an obvious fail now, which will hopefully stop people trying to spend so long on making things hard on themselves and getting frustrated. Hopefully.

Apologies for being a bit vague on some of these, I try to avoid giving things away in the release notes if I think it might be spoilers for someone. Trying not to draw attention to things in some cases.

Oh, I should mention quickly that if I understand geoo's Sports 9 solution then it is 100% bang-on intended. Well done!

v05 changelog:

Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on April 26, 2017, 09:24:40 pm
Today I solved the Space tribe. I still used V0.4, but according to your changelog, it shouldn't matter. I am not a fan of jetpacks, bazookas or mortars, so overall I preferred other tribes, but at least my solutions don't look too much like backroutes.

Detailed comments on Space (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 26, 2017, 11:27:24 pm
Thanks Nepster for your comments as always. A couple of solutions there are the right idea, but many are not quite right. I've made some fixes to the parts of your solutions that I consider backroutes. I don't want to push out too many rapid-fire updates, but given nobody has downloaded version 5 yet, I may as well upload another version, it's not like I'm requiring people to just keep applying updates constantly.

v06 changelog:


Response to your comments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on April 29, 2017, 11:37:47 am
I played the updated levels. For some I think I got the intended solution, some others haven't improved at all.

Beach (click to show/hide)
Egypt (click to show/hide)
Space (click to show/hide)
Sport (click to show/hide)

Edit: Now with attachment.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 29, 2017, 05:18:21 pm
Thanks again Nepster. I will probably hold off on the next version until there's another Tribe to play. Some of your backroutes make me sad, but some make me happy. I'm willing to allow interesting and fun backroutes in some cases, but in the case of Sports 3 (and I know people really liked that backroute) I'm adamant that while I have a tribe with the shimmier that I get this one to be the intended. Besides I can reuse the nice backroute for another level in another tribe.

Actually it looks like some of you are really struggling with Sports 3, so here are some important features of shimmiers incase you're all struggling because you don't understand how they work:
Shimmier facts (click to show/hide)

Comments to your comments:
Beach (click to show/hide)
Egypt (click to show/hide)
Space (click to show/hide)
Sports (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: geoo on April 29, 2017, 09:37:06 pm
Simon and I went through the space levels today (no video recording, we were working together on some of the levels). My comments and screenshots are below. I had a really good time playing these, very interesting levels.
Tomorrow (Sunday, April 30) we're planning to go through the Egypt levels, and videostream that again. If you want to watch, we'd start 18:00 UTC, though if that doesn't work for you we can also stream earlier or later. http://twitch.tv/simonnaar

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on April 30, 2017, 07:50:38 am
Thanks for the comments! I am good with a stream at 18:00 UTC (seems to be 7:00 PM UK time) so I'll be there! I have no changes to the Egypt tribe in the pipeline so hopefully it should all be mostly intended solutions.

Happy that you enjoyed the Space tribe. I wasn't so sure that explosions and jetpacks were going to go down so well as they can be a bit fiddly at times.

Comments about comments (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on April 30, 2017, 09:11:01 pm
(http://www.lixgame.com/etc/kieran-egyptian-geoo-simon.png) (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/139164452)

QFK v6 Egyptian by geoo and Simon (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/139164452) -- this stream shows both geoo's and my gameplay. This comes close to ccexplore's with for watching a race live. :lix-grin: Will expire in 14 days.

Thanks for Kieran for joining twitch chat!

In case you had preferred not to make a twitch account: An alternative for chatting during the livestream would have been IRC (irc.quakenet.org #lix and #neolemmix, webchat (http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=lix,neolemmix)). We sit there often, even when not streaming.

During streams, twitch is better anyway. It's one chatroom for all viewers, and twitch saves the chat along with the vod for 14 days.

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 01, 2017, 10:05:08 pm
The next update is almost here but still have some stuff to do and ran out of time today, so expect it tomorrow. My changelog has a whopping 22 levels listed for changes, some minor, some major. I'll also give you the following sneak peeks of what else is to come:

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/cavelems.png)

(http://www.kieranmillar.com/lemmings/qfk2/classic.png)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: Raymanni on May 01, 2017, 10:19:51 pm
I just played L2 recently so it will be a blast to try these out :D
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {4/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 02, 2017, 08:33:43 pm
It's finally here! Version 7 attached to the first post! This update brings the Cavelems Tribe, but because the thematic skills I chose combined with the pretty but really awkward to use tileset resulted in a lot of fan use, I figured some people might not like it so much, so also bundled along for the ride is the crowd-favourite Classic Tribe!

Note that the Classic Tribe is the first (and will probalby be the only) tribe where you are allowed to lose lemmings and still get a gold. To prevent annoying guesswork and trial and error, each level of the tribe states in the level title how many lemmings you are allowed to lose.

v07 changelog:

Classic Tribe: Gameplay differences
While making the Classic Tribe I ended up learning a lot about how Lemmings 2 is different to Lemmings 1 in ways that might surprise you, so to prevent surprises, here's some things you should know. Note that all of the levels had to be specifically designed to accomodate or avoid some of these behaviours, but where ideas didn't work, at least Quest From Kieran 1 got some new levels :D

Oh yeah, the Cavelems Tribe has the Icarus Wings skill, which is pretty ass to control and has some issues, so here's some pointers:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on May 03, 2017, 08:26:00 am
Moved Kieran's excellent instructions how to install DOSBox and play L2 (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3273) to the Help board.

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 03, 2017, 04:14:10 pm
Have you wanted to play this pack, but don't like Lemmings 2 and its dodgy interface? Well I'm happy to meet you half way. Now you can play the Classic Tribe in Neolemmix in Quest From Kieran 2 : NeoClassic, you'll find it attached to the first post.

Note that due to gameplay differences, some very minor terrain adjustments had to be made to make drops that are safe in Lemmings 2 also safe in Neolemmix, as Lemmings 2 has almost double the safe fall distance.

I was in two minds whether or not to make changes over the difference where miners turn when they hit steel in Neolemmix, but not in Lemmings 2. In the end I didn't, but I have a suspicion that a backroute or two may open up as a result. If you find any, maybe I'll make changes.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: geoo on May 04, 2017, 08:59:50 pm
Tried some of the backroute fixes in Space, Egypt and Beach. I'm still stuck on Beach 9 and 10, I have almost-solutions to both...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 04, 2017, 10:01:21 pm
Thanks for the screenshots
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on May 05, 2017, 07:10:51 pm
I solved both new tribes and the updated levels, except the totally mysterious Sport 4 (Nice catch). One comment to Classic in general: Can you swap the title and the requirement, so that the "lose xy" is displayed on the second line? This would look a lot better, in my opinion. Screenshots attached as usual.

Cave (click to show/hide)
Classic (click to show/hide)
Beach (click to show/hide)
Egypt (click to show/hide)
Space (click to show/hide)
Sport (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: geoo on May 05, 2017, 08:50:08 pm
Solved the remaining updated levels, except for Sports 4 (pretty stumped on that one). I haven't touched the new levels yet, though we might try them out with Simon tomorrow night.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: Finally solved Sports 4, but it's quite hackish.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 05, 2017, 09:14:26 pm
Thanks again Nepster. I'd like to push an update before tomorrow's possible stream, so thanks for finding more backroutes.

Beach (click to show/hide)

Cave (click to show/hide)

Classic (click to show/hide)

Egyptian (click to show/hide)

Space (click to show/hide)

Sports (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 05, 2017, 10:15:50 pm
Thanks again geoo.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 06, 2017, 02:58:18 pm
Version 8 attached to the first post. Another big update. Neoclassic won't be updated just yet in case more changes are needed after the possible upcoming stream.

v08 changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on May 07, 2017, 09:22:31 am
I solved Nice Catch on stream, then raced geoo in Cavelems and Classic.

Vod of my play, with geoo's and my voice (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/140596890)
Vod of geoo's play (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/140624809)

Kieran and Raymanni stayed in chat the entire time, thanks!



geoo won the Cavelem race by 2 minutes, really close. I won the Classic race because geoo didn't want to backroute Richard's Cliff.

The races have been good fun, looking forward to have more!

Ideally, I'd manage to include geoo's broadcast into my own stream, in a corner. I've looked into local RTMP servers, and while I can test-stream to a server running on my own machine, I haven't managed to watch from it yesterday.

Rage sources, sorted by severity, 1 is severest:
-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: ccexplore on May 07, 2017, 11:21:01 am
L2 has no framestepping, but I'm used to framestepping.

Well, technically there kind of is (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1109.msg33029#msg33029) (and made easier with DOSBox (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1259.0)), just that it's probably not intended and more to the point, you can't go backwards which is kind of the important part.  (Also you can't use that method during fanning, but maybe that's a blessing since I can't imagine anyone wanting to play a level that requires ultra-precise fanning.)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: grams88 on May 08, 2017, 11:54:45 pm
I'll need to give those levels a try, those look very nice and would bring back memories of playing the old lemmings tribes :thumbsup:. I bet those will be a lot harder than the old tribes levels.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: mobius on May 09, 2017, 12:01:33 am
L2 has no framestepping, but I'm used to framestepping.

Well, technically there kind of is (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1109.msg33029#msg33029) (and made easier with DOSBox (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1259.0)), just that it's probably not intended and more to the point, you can't go backwards which is kind of the important part.  (Also you can't use that method during fanning, but maybe that's a blessing since I can't imagine anyone wanting to play a level that requires ultra-precise fanning.)

As someone new to fanning; it's ultra annoying even as however non-precise it currently is.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 11, 2017, 10:52:58 pm
Attached the first post you will find version 9, as well as version 2 of Neoclassic! This should be the last update before the next tribe, which might take a small while to come out. Two things of note here:
1) I have decided to get rid of bad levels, so some levels will no longer be updated until I have thought up a replacement for them, so no need to give feedback for those.
2) While it was cute for the Classic Tribe to always have at least one of each skill so the full skill panel was always present, to fix a backroute I had to get rid of a skill in one of the levels, so I've decided to just wipe pointless skills from each classic level. This does not mean all skills used in the solution have gone, just those that didn't even serve to be a red herring.

v09 changelog:

Levels destined for the bin in a future update:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on May 12, 2017, 02:08:32 am
Excellent update!

Solved all Classic and Cavelem that differ between v8 and v9. Videos: Mount Molehill (http://www.lixgame.com/etc/kieran-mount-molehill.mp4) (11 MB), All other Classic/Cavelem (http://www.lixgame.com/etc/kieran-v9-classic-cavelem.mp4) (280 MB)


Not 100 % sure why you'd like to cut The Lowlands. My rage came largely from being tired and from bad assignments. Maybe you feel like the level is too obvious and long?

Hangman is the perfect onescreener, I like this level so much. The next-most favorites are Richard's Cliff, Water Tower, Facing Extinction, Stuck In, Descent of Lemming.

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 12, 2017, 08:08:45 pm
Thanks Simon, videos are always helpful :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I want to cut The Lowlands not because it made anybody rage, but because it was fundamentally broken in a way I no longer wanted to try and solve, and the backroute fixes I'd already applied left me unhappy enough with the level that I think I can do the same concept in a better way.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: ccexplore on May 12, 2017, 09:14:46 pm
Quote
There are always tough decisions to be made about how much red herrings are OK in terms of letting people go really far down the path of something that just barely but doesn't quite work. Is it better to let people do that, or try to make it quicker to come to the conclusion that it is wrong?

Yeah, definitely a tricky balance.  I do think it probably becomes a problem once the herring gets to a point where it is falsely convincing the player that they just need to tweak the execution details more to make the herring work.  This is particularly problematic as Lemmings 2 skills open up to much more tweaking than the classic skills, for example think the precise aim of a projectile skill or the precise fanning of a fanning skill, or the precise flinging provided by a nearby explosion.  It's one thing to mislead the player into a simpler almost-solution that once played out a few times with a few variations, the player can be reasonably confident that it won't work out and it's time to consider something more different.  It's another if it can easily rathole the player into sticking with the herring far longer than they should, thinking it's just a matter of precision/tweaking.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on May 12, 2017, 10:14:48 pm
Played through V9.

Beach (click to show/hide)
Cave (click to show/hide)
Classic (click to show/hide)
Sport (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {6/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 13, 2017, 04:46:21 pm
Thanks Nepster.
Beach (click to show/hide)

Cave (click to show/hide)

Classic (click to show/hide)

Sports (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {7/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 17, 2017, 09:38:19 pm
It's time for another update! NeoClassic is also updated, as always the most recent files can be found in attached to the opening post.

v10 changelog:


Levels destined for the bin:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {7/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on May 18, 2017, 10:34:18 am
geoo and I blind-raced Medieval on Sunday, March 21. The vods remain availabe for 14 days: Simon's vod (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/145957819) geoo's vod (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/145962737)

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {7/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on May 18, 2017, 10:32:42 pm
Medieval Tribe (click to show/hide)
Updated levels (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {7/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 19, 2017, 08:06:40 pm
Thanks as always Nepster! Your thorough and speedy feedback has already helped this pack so immensely, I really appreciate all of your updates! I'll be looking to push another version out before Sunday's stream. If not today, then tomorrow.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {7/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 20, 2017, 10:19:31 pm
Version 11 is attached to the opening post. I have not updated NeoClassic yet, as it's a pain to update and seems all feedback on the Classic Tribe so far has been from playing it in L2 anyway (but that's good as I'm primarily interested in what it's like to play in L2).


v11 changelog:


Levels destined for the bin:

Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {7/12 Tribes}
Post by: geoo on May 25, 2017, 11:14:48 am
Played through the new stuff from v11 (and v9 and v10 as I hadn't checked out all of that yet), except for Classic.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think by now I know more or less the intended solutions to Space, Cave and Beach, and most of Egypt.
Lifeguard to the Rescue and especially Take the Plunge are really cool (I don't think I commented on them before).

I also found another glitch: When a swimmer gets out of the water pit, you can assign a builder such that it starts building one pixel above the ground, i.e. floating in mid-air.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {7/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 25, 2017, 09:49:27 pm
Thanks for the comments geoo.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {8/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 27, 2017, 06:33:20 pm
It's time for another Tribe! Neoclassic has also been updated. As always, downloads and new Tribe blurb in the opening post.

v12 Changelog:


Levels destined for the bin:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {8/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on May 28, 2017, 04:04:02 am
Re-solved Introducing Cavelem, solved Laying the Foundations.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Kieran: geoo and I plan to race Polar on Sunday, June 4th, 18:00 UTC. Would that suit you?

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {8/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on May 28, 2017, 11:22:14 am
Solved the Polar tribe and resolved (most) of the updated levels, except "Laying the Foundation".

Polar tribe (click to show/hide)

Updated levels (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {8/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 30, 2017, 09:53:41 pm
Thanks guys for the feedback. I'm most interested in fixing up Polar in time for the stream, so will focus my responses to your comments solely on Nepster's Polar Tribe playthrough right now, and will come back and respond to the rest once it is all fixed up.

Polar (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {8/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on May 31, 2017, 04:38:30 pm
Regarding Polar 8:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {8/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on May 31, 2017, 08:04:20 pm
New update in the opening post. I call this "The Cool Update" because every level changed is Polar. Haha get it? Cool, because all of the levels are cold themed? You know what, forget it. My jokes are wasted on you lot.

v13 chagelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {8/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on June 01, 2017, 06:56:11 pm
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {8/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on June 02, 2017, 08:08:23 pm
Thanks again Nepster. I'll try to fix up what I can and push out another update before the stream. I'll also finally respond to a portion of the other comments I received for version 12.

Nepster v13 Polar (click to show/hide)

Simon v12 (click to show/hide)

Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {8/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on June 03, 2017, 10:08:14 pm
In preparation for tomorrow's stream, v14 is attached to the opening post. I'll wait to update NeoClassic until the next major update. I expect another update will come within a week after the stream.

v14 changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {8/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on June 06, 2017, 08:49:43 pm
It's time for a new Tribe! Version 15, and also NeoClassic is updated to version 5. Find them both in the opening post.

v15 changelog:


Minor TODO list:

Major TODO list:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on June 07, 2017, 07:27:54 pm
Solved V15 with the super powerful (read backrouty) SuperLem in the Circus tribe.

Circus tribe (click to show/hide)

Updated Levels (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on June 07, 2017, 08:56:10 pm
Thanks Nepster. Sad news, I didn't realise you could cancel the laser blaster so some of these levels are unfixably busted. :( Will have to come up with replacements.
Circus (click to show/hide)

Updated levels (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on June 09, 2017, 12:39:38 am
Walk the plank save-all (http://www.lixgame.com/etc/l2-kieran-walk-the-plank.mp4) (video, 6 MB)

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: geoo on June 10, 2017, 09:11:10 pm
Not many new solutions, and all three of them look a bit backrouteish:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: geoo on June 11, 2017, 09:08:32 pm
A few more.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on June 12, 2017, 10:28:25 pm
Thanks for the feedback all. I've decided I'm no longer going to respond to each individual point of feedback, but I promise you I do read and consider all of it.

Version 16 has been released. NeoClassic not updated yet as I will be making further changes to Classic in a near update.

v16 changelog:

Minor TODO list:
Classic 6 Pillar Thriller
Classic 9 Spiral Staircase
Egypt 9 A Sticky Situation
Medieval Tribe
Polar 3 Snow Drops
Polar 7 Snow Drifts
Polar 8 Forging ahead
Polar 10 Grotty Grotto

Major TODO list:
Medieval 7 Castle Invaders
Space 6 Hull Breach
Sports 5 Tour De Farce
Polar 9 Santa's Big Dig
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on June 14, 2017, 09:09:43 pm
I played through the updated level again and most should be (close) to intended. :thumbsup:

Comments (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on June 14, 2017, 09:28:21 pm
geoo and I consider livestreaming a Circus race tomorrow (Thursday) at 17:00 UTC (19:00 German summer time, an hour earlier than my usual stream time). But we'd like confirmation by Kieran before we schedule it for tomorrow.

Kieran, do you have time to watch? If not, what other time suits you? geoo suggests Monday 19th or Wednesday 21st.

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on June 14, 2017, 09:32:44 pm
Nepster on Circus 7 (click to show/hide)

Ooh you posted about twitch while I was typing this up. Unfortunately I have guests around tomorrow for a board game night, so would not be able to watch that stream sorry. Monday 19th or Wednesday 21st both much better for me.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on June 14, 2017, 09:40:35 pm
Awesome, thanks for the quick reply. Then it's Monday, June 19th, 18:00 UTC. Everybody is invited.

twitch.tv/simonnaar, twitch.tv/geoouw, or both together at multitwitch.tv/simonnaar/geoouw

Edit: Race is not 17 UTC, but 18 UTC. I'll start the stream around 17 UTC anyway and go over de-backrouted levels in other tribes.

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {9/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on June 18, 2017, 08:53:15 pm
A very small update mainly for tomorrow's stream:

v17b changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {10/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on June 23, 2017, 09:46:53 pm
It's update time! New tribe, not totally sure how I feel about some of it. The skill selection is a bit wacky. Hopefully some levels aren't too frustrating.

v18 changelog:

Minor TODO list:
Circus 3
Classic 6
Classic 8
Classic 9
Egypt 9
Medieval Tribe - lots of levels
Polar 3
Polar 7
Polar 8
Polar 10

Major TODO list:
Medieval 7 Castle Invaders
Space 6 Hull Breach
Sports 5 Tour De Farce
Polar 9 Santa's Big Dig
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {10/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on June 24, 2017, 08:37:06 pm
I played most of the Highlands, but here I really wish that L2 has framestepping, replay features or similar.

Highlands and Circus (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {10/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on June 25, 2017, 03:57:31 pm
Thanks Nepster. If I don't comment on a level here, assume I'm saying either "that's intended." or "that obviously needs fixing".

Highland (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {10/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on June 30, 2017, 09:39:26 pm
An update with Highland fixes, fixing some outstanding stuff, and continuing to procrastinate fixing Classic, Medieval and Polar before I start work on the next tribe.

v19 changelog:

Minor todo list (click to show/hide)

Major todo list (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {10/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on July 02, 2017, 06:43:17 pm
Here some more screenshots of the updated levels.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {11/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on July 06, 2017, 08:00:09 pm
Thanks Nepster. I know I haven't said anything but I have looked at your feedback and taken it on board, I was just busy focussing on finishing up the latest tribe!

Version 20 has been released, which contains The Shadow Tribe! This is the only change in this release, so no need for a changelog.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {11/12 Tribes}
Post by: Nepster on July 10, 2017, 05:28:15 pm
Shadow tribe (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {11/12 Tribes}
Post by: kieranmillar on July 14, 2017, 08:24:23 pm
Thanks Nepster! I'll provide some comments about comments.
Shadow (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {11/12 Tribes}
Post by: Simon on July 16, 2017, 03:27:05 pm
Race with geoo on Tuesday, July 18 at 18:00 UTC through Shadow or maybe Highland, depending on what tribe Kieran prefers to see raced first.

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes!}
Post by: kieranmillar on July 18, 2017, 01:58:07 pm
This is it! 135 levels later and I've finally replaced every level! This doesn't mean there aren't a few replacements due, but it does mean that for now, the entire game has been replaced!

This update is in time for tonight's stream. I recommend racing Shadow, as it's in the best place right now out of the 3 tribes that haven't been raced.

No update to NeoClassic yet. It's a pain to update but I'll do it at some point.

v21 changelog:

Minor TODO list (click to show/hide)

Major TODO list (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes!}
Post by: Raymanni on July 18, 2017, 09:03:23 pm
It was a great stream! I'm glad I didn't miss it. :D

I had to make a quick pic which sums up the stream perfectly:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes!}
Post by: kieranmillar on July 18, 2017, 09:52:13 pm
That's amazing!

Anyway I've started fixing the broken levels. Shadow 8 Roadmenders seemed to particularly frustrate Simon and geoo so I've tried to focus on changing this one. Thoughts?
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes!}
Post by: Raymanni on July 19, 2017, 09:33:07 am
It's definitely an improvement, but maybe add a bit more moons...?
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes!}
Post by: kieranmillar on July 20, 2017, 10:44:50 am
Here's the next update, very speedy release because I've got the week off work. Quite a hefty chunk of changes here, dealing with most things on my TODO lists. The Highland Tribe is now ready for the next stream. I've also updated NeoClassic.

v22 changelog:

Minor TODO list (click to show/hide)

Major TODO list (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes!}
Post by: Simon on July 20, 2017, 12:00:38 pm
Thanks for the fast update! I'll download tomorrow before the next stream.

Race with Doctor Moon geoo through Highland tomorrow on Friday, July 21st, at 18:00 UTC. Streams were at:

twitch.tv/simonnaar
twitch.tv/geoouw
multitwitch.tv/simonnaar/geoouw

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: kieranmillar on July 24, 2017, 08:50:43 pm
What's this? Could it be.... even more levels! Surprise! :lem-shocked:

Yes the main content wasn't quite over yet. Attached to the front post you'll find a bonus download: Quest From Kieran 2: The Lost Tribe!

This is another set of 10 levels for the Egyptian Tribe that does not adhere to a strict restriction of thematic skills, instead you'll find a huge grab-bag of all your favourite skills, like Diver, Attractor, Pole Vaulter and lots and lots of Magic Carpets!

Throughout development of QFK2 I sometimes had a cool idea for a level, but it couldn't work with the skills I'd chosen for the Tribe, so the Lost Tribe is my opportunity to make these levels. The levels are save-all, with a single exception (it has Exploders), but as always you'll find the number you are allowed to lose for this level in the title of the level.

To prevent overwriting the regular QFK2 Egyptian Tribe, you might prefer to copy your entire L2 install so both packs can coexist side by side!

Note that this bonus tribe is overall a lot harder than the regular QFK2 content, which by the usual metric means it has tons of trivial exploits. Good luck! You'll need it.

Sadly this is now, for reals this time, the actually final Tribe.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: Leo on July 25, 2017, 05:29:24 am
When you are at the full speed of creativity, you can also consider making new practice levels.
And of course, you can make another full set of 120 levels. Having two new level sets for the game in 24 years is certainly not too much.
Also, who said levels must be super hard? Make one set of levels just for the fun. Let's call it 'Lemmings 2: Beginner's Edition'.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: kieranmillar on July 25, 2017, 08:30:52 am
While making 240 levels would be cool, I'm at risk of burning out on L2 right now and also have some commitment elsewhere that I want to get back to so this pack is enough for now. 130 levels is still quite a lot.

You're right that levels don't have to be super hard, I'd say that a significant portion of the entire pack is on the simpler side, about 30-40%-ish probably? Definitely has a large chunk of small and straightforward levels. The bonus pack just happens to be tougher overall, partially by accident, and partially because I wasn't deliberately making simpler levels to fit my plan with the rest of the Tribes having a smooth difficulty curve.

I had no plans to make new practice levels. They are not all that interesting anyway.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: Nepster on July 25, 2017, 06:50:27 pm
Here are my solutions to the Outdoor tribe. On lots of levels I finished with only a few seconds on the clock. So could you please increase the time limits a bit? Otherwise a great tribe (except for the usual backroutes) ;)
I will play the lost tribe and your other backroute-fixed levels soon.

More detailed feedback (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: kieranmillar on July 25, 2017, 10:12:55 pm
Thanks Nepster! Looks like I'll need to make changes to every single Outdoor level. Well, I might leave 10 as is because your solution is OK, but I might still make some tweaks anyway.

P.S. Noticed a quite obvious backroute in the Lost Tribe level 6 Jumping the Shark, so hopefully I can get a fix for that posted up sometime tomorrow along with a load of other changes waiting in the pipeline. You might as well play the fixed version.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: kieranmillar on July 26, 2017, 03:03:03 pm
I've been spending a lot of time on this lately on my time off, but updates from now on won't come quite so thick and fast. I'm looking to make some very significant changes to Highland in the future, as I will most likely be changing the skills the Tribe uses so there's still a lot of work to do there.

Version 23 has been released, alongside version 2 of the Lost Tribe (where the only change is a backroute fix to the 6th level Jumping the Shark):


v23 changelog:

TODO list (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: Nepster on July 26, 2017, 07:31:53 pm
I resolved everything except Highland, Outdoor and Shadow (unless I missed some other level that was updated, too).

Comments (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: Nepster on July 30, 2017, 02:46:06 pm
Here are screenshots for the updated levels of Shadow and the first half of Outdoor.

Comments (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: Nepster on August 13, 2017, 11:24:58 am
Finally the Lost Tribe has found it's way home, too, even though they took some shortcuts. :P

Comments (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: kieranmillar on August 16, 2017, 08:54:31 pm
Thanks Nepster. I haven't been active lately but hope to get back into fixing up my pack based on your comments. I've still not really thought about what I'll be doing to the Highland Tribe. I'll respond more directly to your comments eventually.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: kieranmillar on August 21, 2017, 10:25:45 pm
I've started fixing up levels and have started with the Lost Tribe, so I'll respond to those comments first:
Lost Tribe (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: kieranmillar on August 30, 2017, 08:02:56 pm
I've fixed up all of the outstanding issues in the Shadow and Outdoor tribes, as well as the Lost Tribe!

v24 changelog:

Lost Tribe v03 changelog:

TODO List (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {All Tribes + Bonus!}
Post by: kieranmillar on September 10, 2017, 07:39:06 pm
More fixing. This time the Classic, Medieval and Sports tribe get all of their outstanding issues fixed. I have decided to hold off on updating NeoClassic for now as the new Neolemmix level format, when it is released, will no longer use manual steel areas, so there will be some updating needed.

v25 changelog:

TODO List (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v26 17th Sep 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on September 17, 2017, 07:10:29 pm
Another version. This one is pretty substantial. This version includes a major Highland revamp, where the builder got swapped out for the slider, and a whole host of levels have been replaced. I also replaced two other levels that I thought were a bit lame. Due to the number of changes to the Highland tribe, and the fact that some levels are new despite having the same name, I'll list every level and state what's changed, or not.

v26 changelog:

TODO List (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v26 17th Sep 2017}
Post by: Simon on September 17, 2017, 08:46:13 pm
Great to see this much support!

Outdoor race on Thursday, September 21st, 18:00 UTC at www.twitch.tv/simonnaar and www.twitch.tv/geoouw. geoo and I aren't looking at Highland or Bonus-Egyptian until then, allowing more races.

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v26 17th Sep 2017}
Post by: Nepster on September 17, 2017, 09:33:54 pm
Final chance to get some last-minute fixes done to the outdoor tribe before the race. :)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v26 17th Sep 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on September 18, 2017, 10:07:52 am
Heh, thanks Nepster, always able to find dumb oversights by myself, and so quickly too! I should be able to get fixes out before Thursday.
Comments (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v27 20th Sep 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on September 20, 2017, 07:17:59 pm
Here's another update in advance of tomorrow's stream. A shame I could not get the entirety of my TODO list completed before this release, but this is the shortest it has ever been. Although to be fair, I am sure tomorrow shall bring a whole host of additional items to my list ;)

v27 changelog:

TODO list (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v27 20th Sep 2017}
Post by: Simon on September 22, 2017, 04:16:49 am
I've won a race for once. Hohohoohohoho. (http://www.lixgame.com/etc/mud-slinger-crawling.mp4)

I'll be happy to re-race Highland, and to race the extra Egyptian tribe. geoo and I will probably schedule a time in 2 weeks, on shorter notice.

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v27 20th Sep 2017}
Post by: geoo on September 22, 2017, 06:58:06 am
Yeah, sounds good to me, in 2-3 weeks.
This was a really good race, going back and forth all the time. And the levels were a lot of fun, just the crawling ruined some of them a bit.

btw, I found an easier crawling setup for one of the Outdoor levels you might want to fix as well, see attached. Just a roper and a platformer.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v28 25th Sep 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on September 25, 2017, 10:31:00 pm
Well here it is. At last. A version where my TODO list is completely empty! Which isn't to say that it will stay that way, of course! Now whatever will I do with all my free time?

v28 changelog:

Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v28 25th Sep 2017}
Post by: Raymanni on September 26, 2017, 07:37:41 am
Amazing job Kieran! :D I have only watched Simon's and geoo's streams but now I'm starting to feel the urge to play these levels myself.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v28 25th Sep 2017}
Post by: Nepster on September 27, 2017, 04:55:00 pm
Attached the solutions to the modified Highland levels.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v28 25th Sep 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on September 29, 2017, 09:39:24 pm
Thanks again Nepster! Looks like I could do with making some of these levels a bit less precise or Hectic. Shouldn't be too hard. Speaking of precision I worry a bit about the new Outdoor 9 Life's Greater Porpoise, I might look to replace that one maybe.
Comments about comments (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v29 30th Sep 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on September 30, 2017, 03:30:54 pm
I emptied my TODO list again, as well as made some other fixes after a bit more looking over of some of my other recent changes.

v29 changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on October 07, 2017, 10:00:58 pm
I went through the entire pack and recorded the author solution to every level, uploading them to Youtube (but currently unlisted) so when the game is released people can see what I intended for levels if they think they've found a backroute. As testing is not finished yet I expect it may be the case I may need to re-record some, but it is no big deal.

While doing this I ended wanted to make a small number of tweaks or fixes to some levels, so that's what this update is. Version 30 is available, as well as version 4 of the lost tribe. After this, all that is left is to convert NeoClassic to the new level format then wait for any further testing that I am aware of. Soon we will be getting close to the Release Candidate!

v30 changelog:

Lost Tribe v04 changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on October 13, 2017, 11:23:53 pm
Playing geoo's The Diver Level made me realise one of my Lost Tribe levels was not as immune to backroutes as I thought. If anything, my backroute prevention only made things worse. So I released a quick fix.

Lost Tribe v05 changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: geoo on October 18, 2017, 05:45:32 pm
Race will start in 15 minutes (Wednesday Oct 18th) 18:00 UTC! Streams are live now!
Watch www.multitwitch.tv/simonnaar/geoouw

We'll decide whether Highland tribe or the Bonus-Egyptian tribe at the beginning of the race.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on October 20, 2017, 07:28:15 pm
Time for a whole bucket-load of fixes as usual after a stream.

Lost Tribe v06 changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on October 21, 2017, 12:28:13 pm
I have had a change of heart and decided that the backroute Simon found on Lost Tribe 7 Potheads was cool and so is now officially an alternate solution.

Lost Tribe v07 changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: Simon on October 22, 2017, 06:33:57 am
I'd like to find the Potheads intended solution, too. Where did you put extra steel in Lost Tribe v06?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on October 22, 2017, 07:02:11 am
The steel in v06 covered the surface of the floor between the first and second pot preventing you from
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Your proposed idea falls down at step 8. The gap is about 3 pixels too long to rope across.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: geoo on October 24, 2017, 08:46:56 am
Resolved Outdoor 8-9, and Bonus 2 and 6 for now.

Outdoor 7 attempt: https://go.twitch.tv/videos/183209854## at 11:45 (valid for another week or so)
The other levels, see attached.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

btw, would you be interested if I recorded videos of my attempts with commentary?
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on October 25, 2017, 09:42:30 pm
Hi geoo, sorry it's taken so long to respond. Been a busy week.

Thanks for the screenshots. I'll provide comments as usual. If it is easier for you to just record your attempts, I am more than happy to watch. Sometimes it can be just as helpful to see what people try and fail at.

Comments (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: geoo on October 27, 2017, 10:13:42 pm
Broken two more levels of the lost tribe. :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Comments on comments:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: mobius on October 29, 2017, 04:13:36 pm
I streamed a little bit of Shadow and sports today:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/186042808

the 1 level I solved was very fun :D
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v30 7th Oct 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on October 29, 2017, 07:59:22 pm
Thanks geoo and mobius. Sorry you're finding it hard mobius, but glad you're ejoying it! :thumbsup: By the way your solution to Shadow 5 Into the Hidden City was intended.

Responding to geoo:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v31 29th Oct 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on October 29, 2017, 11:19:24 pm
It's time for yet another update. One day all the small tweaks and improvements will finally end. But today is not that day.

v31 changelog:

Lost Tribe v08 changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v31 29th Oct 2017}
Post by: geoo on November 04, 2017, 11:00:09 pm
Played some levels on stream, the recordings are online for 14 days:

October 30, mostly Shadow and a bit of Medieval and new Circus level: https://go.twitch.tv/videos/186370382
kieran's live commentary: https://www.nordicbots.com/?id=73&net=quakenet&cid=81576&year=2017&month=10&day=30

November 2, some Space and Polar and Egypt 9: https://go.twitch.tv/videos/187092776
kieran's live commentary: https://www.nordicbots.com/?id=73&net=quakenet&cid=81576&year=2017&month=11&day=2

November 4, Sports 6, Egypt 10 and a lot of Lost Tribe: https://go.twitch.tv/videos/187653215
kieran's commentary this time in the twitch chat.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v32 6th Nov 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on November 06, 2017, 10:17:39 pm
Thanks to geoo's streams there was a whole bunch of fixes and adjustments to make:

v32 changelog:

Lost Tribe v09 changelog:
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v32 6th Nov 2017}
Post by: Simon on November 24, 2017, 03:52:31 pm
Race against geoo in Highland tonight, Friday 24th, at 19:00 UTC. We have played Highland some months ago, but Kieran has backroute-fixed many levels. It will be a fresh challenge.

https://www.twitch.tv/simonnaar
https://www.twitch.tv/geoouw
http://www.multitwitch.tv/simonnaar/geoouw

-- Simon
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v33 29th Nov 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on November 29, 2017, 11:37:04 pm
Well it looks like we're finally here. After all of the superb and extensive testing by Simon, geoo and Nepster, this pack now has what I believe is the final Release Candidate available, version 33. I'm looking to make the final release within the next month before 2017 is over.

It's been a hell of a journey. An incredibly fun one I'm happy to say. Although I do now twitch involuntarily any time somebody says the word "crawling".

v33 changelog:

EDIT: Oh yeah, i still need to update NeoClassic. Time to experience the new formats version of Neolemmix maybe?
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v33 29th Nov 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on December 02, 2017, 04:59:45 pm
I have updated NeoClassic in the new formats Neolemmix, and you will find it attached to the first post. Unlike before, this time levels were rebuilt with the original pieces rather than taking a screenshot of the level, so the levels are not exact, but are basically the same layout. A few pixels different here and there hopefully makes no practical differences.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v33 29th Nov 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on December 05, 2017, 07:48:13 pm
I have decided to set the release date of this pack to be Monday 11th December, wherein I will move it out of the In Development board, unless anyone has reason to object for some reason. Besides it's not like I couldn't make more updates once its released if any major issues are found, although I feel confident at this stage that there won't be any.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v33 29th Nov 2017}
Post by: geoo on December 07, 2017, 10:38:14 pm
Played a few levels on stream to which I hadn't found the intended solution yet. Got some intended solutions and some backroutes. Video here (valid for 14 days): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/207544468
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v34 18th Dec 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on December 18, 2017, 12:17:00 pm
Another update to fix geoo's latest set of backroutes. So much for releasing last week hah!

v34 changelog:

I also updated Neoclassic to mirror the changes made to level 7 Pillar Thriller. In addition, I previously misunderstood how the new Neolemmix treats release rates, so all of the levels have had their release rates corrected to exactly mirror those in L2. Finally, I have added a new download, QFK_NeoClassic_music, which contains music for the L2's Classic Tribe. If you extract this into your NeoLemmix music folder, all of the NeoClassic levels will have L2's Classic Tribe music.
Title: Re: [Lemmings 2] Quest From Kieran 2 {v34 18th Dec 2017}
Post by: kieranmillar on December 31, 2017, 07:17:49 pm
I'm going to have another go at doing the final release for QFK2. Sometime in the next week I'll close this thread and post a main release.

After mobius's stream today there are two more changes to be made. I will not be posting a new release because they are only minor, but will be in the full release: