Alright finished the Hellish rating :)
Replays attached.
Some nice puzzles in there, but a lot of the fun was taken away when I had to watch ~ 1h or more of FF replays :devil:
The engine has it's limitations with precision and a lot of the stuff is A REALLY nice puzzle, but simply does not fit into the SuperLemmini engine.
I must say once more: There are very good levels here (and awesome music which partly would be troublesome on YT :)), but the engine locks away it's true potential.
Now some detailed feedback where I will mostly rant about SuperLemmini and BUG behaviors (I see me turning into Simon here :P) and about my slowly building rage which peeked at the last level :devil:
Childeren under 18 years please skip this post :XD: *strong language*
Level 1: This would be a very nice medium difficulty level, if it weren't for that flamethrower bug required in there and yes I call that 100% a bug as you should not be able to climb through a flamethrower! Even more if you die fallng back down (discovered this in level 20) ! :devil::devil::devil::devil: It only came to my mind as I remembered you talking about it in of of your PimoLems videos and it saved me from trying a 1000 different things.
Level 2: I saw the trick here right from the start (digger + basher crossing), but ~ 20 tries later I said screw this and used your replay. Without any features this is just a pain to execute.
Level 3: Nice trick again! Would again be a good level, if it weren't for the 10 retries it took to get this right (I expected even more to be honest)
Level 4: Well the -1 miner didn't have that much of an impact here in my opinion. Just try to place that builder + miner right an you are fine. + Spend another 5mins of replay watching :devil:
Level 5: This was very good! Not very difficult, but good level nevertheless. Even that one bomber was correct in the 3rd try.
Level 6: What the heck are these climber mechanics in SuperLemmini! I sent a climber ahead and I ripped my hair out as he continues to climb through pipes......
As I saw I had to take the crowed with me and reached the botton I thought: Why do I have 30 builders for this ??? Tried to bash.......and just thought WHY??? :devil:
Why does this area where you have to build the upper basher row have to be this long :devil::devil:! A 5 builders long area would have done the trick here. I was impressed I made it
in the 3rd try though. If zthe area would have been smaller it would have been an alright level.
Level 7: And my rage grew :devil: 80 climbers and diggers ..... even if i made it in the 2nd try this costs so much nerves to do in SuperLemmini :(
Level 8: This was a very nice puzzle! Solved it quickly and it doesnt took a lot of tries to execute :thumbsup:
Level 9: I wasn't a big fan of that trick in Dodo's pack, as I find it unlogical. Also it is precise in the execution. Just 3 or so places where you have to do it would have done the trick.
Level 10: Well this was a nightmare to execute. Again as I know the trick and saw the terrain the solution was there, but after raging after 10+ tries to get it right :devil::devil: I used your
replay for the 2nd time to get the initial setup right.
Level 11: This was a very good level even if I don't like that jumping miner :thumbsup:
Level 12: First I had to get a closer look to forge my plan here and always came a destructive skill short. But than after another builder I placed at the start I found out that when you place it pixel
perfect, you are able to gwet up that part using only 1 builder :lem-shocked: Why not simply remove that diagonal thing there and remove the unnessesary precision. Without that
start that would be a very fun level actually :), it has more to offer than that start!
Level 13: This one is a genius level :thumbsup: , buuuuuut landing on that hook without untimed bombers + framestepping is a nightmare to do here :devil:
Level 14: I may have backrouted this ???
Level 15: After spending 15 mins trying to find any way to solve this, I gladfully thought of that BUG (yes this should be considered as a bug :devil:) behavior where a climber gets stuck in
a basher/minertunnel....turned RR to 68 and level done.
Level 16: This was a very nice level :thumbsup: Not very difficult but very nice with not too much precision.
Level 17: Glad I remembered the magic box here as I saw just a few pixels lower would achieve me the victory. The steel could be a bit bigger to make it more visible. but again this may be my favorite level so far:thumbsup:
Level 18: I think I backrouted the crap out of this level 8-) 4 builders to spare...this can't be right.
Level 19: This one should be backrouted as well.
Again if the engine of your choice limits the speed and precision of excecution you should take this into account and design around that. That's one of the main reasons why I converted Reunion to NeoLemmix, as I thought after the creation that the engine was making it bad because of it's limits.
Level 20 deserves it's own post where I will tell you my story of pure anger playing through it :devil: and this comers from a LOVER of huge levels!
Ok level 20...........:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:
It is not easy to make me rage, as I sit through mostly everything, but at a certain point........Giga knows what I mean in ResidentGigaLems ;) let's hide some mines, buttons, pick-up skills etc in the terrain! :devil:
The good thing: It looks awesome :thumbsup:
Alright but now I start: I saw the size + obstickles + the skillset and thought about why am I doing this to myself this must have been like Nepster playing through some of the old lemmix levels, but at least old Lemmix has savestates, frameskipping etc now........... this would not be half has bad with just one savestate, but no all I have is just that replay with only one way too slow Fast Forward....
First part wasn't bad, crowd was contained, sent a climber out and started building to the top. Then I saw the trap icecles in the next thingy and though let's stay at the top till the steel....figured out that I have to fall down...bashed through... started to build again.......and i saw red:devil::devil::devil: WHY WHY WHY WHY must there be a hiden trap/s and yes you can see tinnnny things at the edges, but I thought that they were just decoration!
......replay watching.......
ok now I go the bottom path there...at least I saw the bear trap.......bashed through get to the ice teeth and there it hit me again as I missed the assignment and couldn't fix the mistake as my rescue assignment got him while he was a jumper :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:
......replay watching.......
Ok let's try the top path again....I use a basher stairbase to gain enough height for the zapper trap... got over the monster.....got onto the mouth of the next face.....................................
:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:
Why are there hidden traps again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no reason to put them there other than to piss off the player, laugh at him and make him watch the replay allllllll over again!
......replay watching....... at this point I got some chips to bring me through the waiting time........
ok now bash through the eyes of the face and go over all possible traps there....... build over the two next gaps ... I saw that nearly hidden bubble zapper at the top route! ---> go down
annnnd figured out that the stomper trigger area is a bit higher than I thought :devil: (well but me to blame here)................
......replay watching.......
ok this time go under the stomper and to the near end part.....................that part........................you know what's up with this :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:
Why must it be at the end and not the start? So that I can at least get this over with at the beginning and not the end ???
Tried to reach the other side with extreme builder stretching (a dream to do in SuperLemmini...not :devil:) and burned........ :devil:
Saw that I had to get another guy to go under and climb through the flamethrower again to seal this from both sides. :(
......replay watching....... for about 5mins at this point :devil::devil:
ok the first guy goes under prepares the right edge while the other comes so that they can start ~ at the same time........ missed the right guy, but hey he can surly fall through the flamethrower when he can climb through it..............................................NOPE.EXE :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:
......replay watching....... furiosly eating chips
next try failed at the 3rd step as doing 2x extreme builder streching in SuperLemmini is stressful as hell :devil::devil: I don't wanna stress, I want puzzles!!
......replay watching.......
failed again midway through :(
......replay watching.......
FINALLY GOT THE GAP SEALED! Fiddle up my way at the right edge and notice that weird gap in the game area......let the crowd out and finally I don't have to play that again! (at least in SuperLemmini)
and i think I even missed some replays here!
Again this is a good pack with awesome looking levels + music :thumbsup:, but this can be a ragefest in this engine :(
I owe you to be honest here!
Sry for the rant and the hard words but I had to get this out of me! :8():
Thank you for your feedback Icho! :) I greatly appreciate getting both the good and the bad feedback.
Some things I want to address as a whole:
1. There is frustration over the replay feature being the only way to reach a certain part again. I understand this is frustrating, especially on long levels like level 20, but I really don't mind it. I don't find it that much worse than constantly rewinding and restarting in NeoLemmix. There is really nothing I can do about this.
2. You say many of the levels use glitches. I disagree. I believe the only levels in Hellish that REQUIRE glitches are Hellish 1 and Hellish 14, and you backrouted the glitch on that level. The rest I call "quirky behavior", because it makes sense. It makes sense climbers can continue through a basher tunnel without turning around while it is being made. It makes sense miners can cross small pits because of the way they move. They warp a few pixels while diggers and bashers move smoothly. etc.
Now for some level specifics:
Hellish 1 you made WAY HARDER than it needed to be. Watch my replay, and you will see.
Hellish 2 I thought was arguably easier than its Insane counterpart due to there being 1 trick to execute as opposed to 2, and the terrain is marked where you should dig. After that, it is just timing the basher.
Hellish 3 and 4 you solved perfectly, and I think those are not that hard to execute. Hellish 3 will take a few replays, but it is not too bad.
Hellish 5 you backrouted slightly, but it is an easy fix.
Hellish 6 I agree with what you said; I will make the basher path shorter to reduce aggravation. That was a good idea! :thumbsup:
Hellish 7 I didn't realize until well after I made it that people dislike that kind of level, but I felt I added a new twist to it and gave it awesome music, so I felt it wasn't too bad. I also can't tell if you made that level easier or harder than it should have been.
Hellish 8 you backrouted, and I'll have to think about how to patch it.
Hellish 9 I didn't think have to "jump" multiple times was a problem since it is the same exact timing every single time and I though it would be too easy if you only had to do it a few times. I will limit the amount of times you have to do it though.
Hellish 10 I ALMOST put in Insane, because I felt everyone knows that trick. However, I realized it would be really hard for someone who didn't know the trick, so I put it in Hellish. It is more tedious than anything.
Hellish 11 and 12 were solved perfectly! Well done! :thumbsup: I will remove the diagonal thing at the beginning of Hellish 12; it used to be necessary, but not anymore! Good catch!
Hellish 13 was flawlessly solved! That took a LONG TIME to eliminate backroutes, and if the hardest part was timing a bomber at the very beginning, then that is not bad at all!
Hellish 14 was heavily backrouted, but easily patched. I'll just remove the blocker, which was a red-herring to begin with! :devil:
Hellish 15 is one of my favorite levels, and it is one of the main reasons I did not want to convert to NeoLemmix; there is no way to keeps this level, and that is NOT A GLITCH!
Hellish 16 was minorly backrouted, but not enough to break the solution.
Hellish 17 was flawlessly solved, and one of my favorite levels! It changed quite a few times over the course of development. You originally only had the right exit and 2 minutes to solve it.
Hellish 18 was backrouted something AWFUL! That will take some serious work.
Hellish 19 was also heavily backrouted. The original solution required a bit too much precision, even in my opinion, which is why it is the second-to-last level.
And finally, Hellish 20. I did NOT expect this level to make you rage at all. I thought it was extremely easy except for the bridge-digger trick at the end. I think I see a really simple solution to this problem though; I'll make it so you only have to save 50% as opposed to 100%. This way, if you screw up, you can just send in another lemming. The reason the traps are hidden was because they make the level look good and give the monsters more life. The original version had WAY MORE jerkish traps, that I removed.
Again, thank you very much for the feedback, and if you thought these levels were hard and rage-inducing, be glad I decided to NOT include the Impossible rating in the final game... :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:
Good luck with Retro 20! You'll really need it...
Replays to all of Newbie, Sweet and Hellish (except level 20) attached. Especially in Sweet I did sometimes nonsense, which was caused by hitting the wrong hotkeys in SuperLemmini. So please ignore all stupid stuff I do ;).
There are lots of very good level with amazing design and/or excellent level idea. But before I comment on the single levels, some general comments first:
1) I noticed that quite often exits, hatches and traps are not set to no-overwrite. The problem I have with this is, that this hides bridges constructed by builders and hides the terrain layout below the exit (which can sometimes be important for levels with bumpy terrain).
2) Hidden traps: Please, please, pretty please make all traps visible! Nothing is more frustrating for me than having to restart all of the level again, just because some lemming got killed due to an invisible trap. Especially because this takes 30sec-1min in SuperLemmini instead of one keypress "go 1sec back" that is available in NeoLemmix and Lix.
3) Time limits: SuperLemmini supports infinite time and you already have a few such levels. So why have time limits in levels, where one has more than enough time anyway? Once or twice I forgot to release the crowd in time and failed the level. I had to replay the second half again, release the crowd earlier and then finished with more than 1min left. This caused unnecessary frustration for me.
4) Long waiting periods: In several levels one just has to wait for quite some time for a lemming to walk to a specific place, a basher to finish his tunnel through some terrain, ... But as a player I want to click at lemmings! Perhaps sometimes the waiting period can be shortened, either by adding a few more obstacles or by by removing some terrain in the middle?
1) This should be Newbie 9, because changing the RR is something much more advanced than assigning skills and if a player doesn't know how to change the RR (which isn't as self-explanatory as the skills), they will be stumped already at the very first level. That would be bad.
And you might consider reducing the number of lemmings and making the level smaller, to make it more obvious that the RR has to be changed. I failed this level the first time I played it, because I didn't expect the RR-change. I am not sure, whether it is really that good when an already experienced players fails the very first intro level ???.
2), 3), 4) Very good levels to introduce the skills.
5) I would make the small gaps one pixel wider. This level took me longer than all other Newbie levels together, because I simply didn't see these gaps and thought them to be solid terrain. The first (of many) very good looking level!
6), 7), 8), 9) Another set of very good level to teach the various skills.
10) Not sure whether nuking needs really be taught, if you don't use this trick/glitch again later on. Explicitely teaching steel and one-way-arrows might be prepare new players better for the rest of the pack.
1) A good start into the first real rank with a very nice looking level.
2) Excellent level idea with very good visuals! The exit is missing its top though.
3) Another level great looking level. Especially the wheels were brilliantly done. Unfortunately one can just bash through almost all of the train, which is somewhat repetitive and has long waits where I didn't have anything to do. The level would be better in my opinion, if the player would be forced to go over the top of some of the wagons.
4) This is kind of the one-way-arrow intro level, I wanted in Newbie. But for players that have already played the original lemmings, this level is simply uninteresting, because they have already solved it (twice).
5) Good easy level to teach players the blocker-bomber combo.
6) Very nice level, though far harder than its position suggests.
7) This level was fun, though the long time of pure bashing was a bit boring. You might move this level to a leter position as well, due to the very restricted skill set and 100% save requirement.
8) Fun level, though slightly heavy on the builder side.
9) A very good level, though it really should be made shorter. Currently one spends way too much time just watching the lemming walking around. And given that I missed builder assignments quite a few times, I had to watch that walking around several times, which certainly doesn't make it any more interesting.
10) The hardest Sweet level, and very good.
11) An excellent level :thumbsup:. But why on earth give 165min time limit? ???
12) This is another level that suffers from too much walking around without any obstacles in the path. What does the middle third do, except stretching the level?
13) This level has the potential to become a very good level. There is a very boring and backrouty way to solve the level though.
14) Interesting level idea! :thumbsup:
15) Another level with lots of walking around and not much to do. The hang-the-lem trap doesn't trigger when walking by, only when building up to it (which I stupidly did :-[). If you add some more obstacles this may become a good level.
16) I am really glad to have directional select. Another candidate to be moved to Newbie, because it does a good job in teaching directional select, which is already useful in some of the previous Sweet levels.
17) Some backrouty solution as in Sweet 13. This level again shows potential, but unfortunately is quite boring with the current backroute in place.
18) I don't understand how the title fits the level. But the level itself has lots of different obstacles and only a few waiting periods, making this level fun.
19) Building, building, building... Why not making the gap smaller and raise the left ledge?
20) Hidden traps are not fun!
1) Very good level idea! But climbing past the flame-thrower (which is NOT possible for some of the other flame-throwers) feels quite glitchy. Is there any reason to have such a strict time limit? I had to restart the level several times just time the third climber currectly, so that I stay within the time limit.
2) Nice twist to this trick with the additional miner :thumbsup:. But the missing framestepping in SuperLemmini makes setting up the trick quite frustrating. (Not your fault, but still frustrating)
3) Excellent trick with many misleading "alternative" paths! But again the missing frame-stepping and the very precise positioning required for the basher, reduces the fun factor.
4) Easier than the original Ark, but still a very fun level!
5) Much, much, much too much walking, even though it looks beautiful. Given that I had to time three bombers correctly, I needed about 15 tries to get them all correctly, making the huge size of the level into a big problem. If the level had half or a third of the current size it would have been a very good level, but so...
6) I have mixed feelings about this level. On the one hand, there is the nice part getting through tha maze. But on the other hand, there is this annoying building an almost solid layer of bricks at the bottom, where it is very easy to leave big enough gaps to stop the basher (resulting again in watching fast-forward all of the level).
7) In principal a good level, but I have seen this idea already way too often by now. And compared with the other similar levels, it adds nothing new.
8) Excellent level! :thumbsup:
9) In current SuperLemmini this level is extremely frustrating, due to 7(!!!) pixel-precise assignments that one needs to get right the very first time the lemming passes the corresponding place. If SuperLemmini had frame-stepping or other advanced game comtrol options, this level would be much better. But under the current circumstances...
10) Very nice twist of this trick, having to build back to the other side at the end. :thumbsup: But I would make the gap one bridge-length shorter to reduce the amount of building needed. I already knew this to be very fiddly to set up, so I build three bridge layers above, so the building time was considerable.
11) The best level in all of Hellish! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Timing the floater/climber needed quite a few tries. Is having this timing really necessary? Why not making the ledge slightly longer, so that the floater can block there, turning around the climber, who can then build up to the bar?
12) This very much feels like a backroute.
13) This is likely a backroute as well. But even then, it has the feeling of an excellent and very interesting level.
14) Very good level. I would only make it a bit easier to build the bridge directly above the exit. Currently this needs quite a bit of precision.
15) Hidden trap!!! Otherwise nice trick, that abuses the game mechanics.
16) Principally another great level. However the long walking periods and the time limit which forces the player to release the lemming crowd quite early, reduce the fun quite a bit.
17) Not sure this is 100% intended. Nevertheless a very nice little level with many misleading paths. :thumbsup:
18) I fear my solution is not quite intended here. A very ugly surprise were the air pixels in the middle of the blue wall: A miner stops halfway through and the basher steps down twice...
19) Another very good level! :thumbsup:
20) This level looks excellent, but given the missing game control features in SuperLemmini, I will likely never play&solve this level - it would just require too much restarting and fast-forwarding while simply waiting and staring at the screen. The several barely visible traps don't help to motivate me either...
Heads up, next update, I'll give an option to download WITHOUT the music, since that makes the download MUCH slower and that way, people can play on Youtube without fear of copyright claims. I'll try to do a Let's Play of it with music after an update patch comes out, hopefully, no copyright claims will occur...
Here are some replies to Nepster:
The exits set to no overwrite should be easy to fix, so never fear! :)
The reason I put in time limits for almost every level is because that IS the way Lemmings is meant to be played. If you look at the official lemmings games, they all have time limits. There are exactly 2 levels in SubLems that give unlimited time: Sweet 5 and Chaotic 15. The reason Sweet 5 has unlimited time is because, it was initially a mistake that I forgot to give a time limit. I then realized it fit the theme of the level "A lemming party NEVER STOPS!" Chaotic 15 has unlimited time because it is an EXTREMELY long level. I originally gave 10 minutes, and that was a time crunch. I changed it to avoid aggravating players. I personally like time limits. They force you to be quick as well as smart, which are two important skillsets to have in Lemmings, and time limits can help you determine how long a level will take.
I will make sure to make the traps more visible in the next update, with the exception of retractable boulders from the dirt tileset, since that is kind of their point, and I only use them secretly on one level, which is EXTREMELY short, so no harm done.
As far as long waiting periods go, I don't mind them at all. I find those help me make more detailed levels and let people appreciate the music. Also, most of the levels with long periods of just walking were some of my first levels; I tend to avoid those long spaces of nothing now.
As far as individual levels go:
Newbie 1: I thought that was the perfect way to start the game, but I understand that the release rate is not always intuitive. I'll try to find a way to fix that.
Newbie 5: One of my favorite level designs! I'll try to make the gaps more obvious without making Block-O-Tron look broken.
Newbie 10: the only level that requires the nuke. I thought that was just a fun way to end the difficulty. It also teaches people the importance of waiting in lemmings.
Sweet 3: I agree, that level is pretty long, but it really is as boring as you make it. You can alternate upper and lower routes if you like. This was also the first level I made for SubLems!
Sweet 4: It's a rip-off, yes! But I thought recreating one of my favorite levels from Fun in winter theme was cool (pun intended). This admittedly could be in Newbie.
Sweet 6 and 7: good to know these were a bit of a difficulty spike. I'll probably move these back.
Sweet 9: Agreed, this level is a bit too large, but part of that is 1: it is one of the first levels I made and 2: it gets repeated later, and more space is used.
Sweet 10: this was the hardest? Really? Interesting, I almost put this earlier.
Sweet 11: I gave 165 minutes because that is the length of the play Much Ado about Nothing.
Sweet 12: I originally made a harder version for Hellish that used more of the space, but that didn't work out, but I kept the Sweet version as it is.
Sweet 13 and 17: these levels are as fun as you make them, and smart players can solve them easily, so I'll leave the backroutes in. They're boring, but reward players for their intelligence.
Sweet 15: better fix the noose. This level ALMOST got the boot from the pack, but I kept it in for nostalgia. If I can come up with better level ideas, this one and its sequel may get the boot in an update.
Sweet 16: this would be the hardest level ever in DOS Lemmings, but I think it is a good intro to directional selection in SuperLemmini. This is not in Newbie because it is less intuitive than the release rate.
Sweet 18: I call it "masterpiece" because of the architecture. I think it may be the prettiest level in the pack, but that's just me.
Sweet 19: I made the gap so big because I wanted it to be a true "abyss". If this bothers people, I can make it smaller.
Sweet 20: the traps are invisible because I wanted you to have to "kill" the boss by bashing through him, but making the traps visible made the boss look stupid. It's a short level, so I think they're all right.
Hellish 1: like Icho, you made that level MUCH HARDER than you needed to.
Hellish 2: if you perform the trick from the opposite side, then the ground is marked where you should put the digger. I'll try to mark the other side as well.
Hellish 5: the only reason (and I do mean the ONLY reason) the level is so big is because it would look awful if only the crucial parts were in. Seriously, it looked TERRIBLE.
Hellish 6: never fear! I will reduce the amount of building necessary for this level.
Hellish 7: I made this level LONG before I realized it was a jaded solution. Sorry! At least the music is awesome...
Hellish 8: backrouted HEAVILY. :( Going to have to fix that AND Icho's backroute...
Hellish 9: I will significantly reduce the number of "jumps" needed in the update.
Hellish 10: there's an idea. I think I will shorten the gap between the ice cream dishes. Thanks for the suggestion! :thumbsup:
Hellish 11: one of my favorites as well! I feel if I made the ledge longer, the level would be too easy for the Hellish rating. Hellish is supposed to be REALLY hard. I may change that though...
Hellish 12: indeed, backrouted something AWFUL! Easy enough fix though...
Hellish 13: I thought for sure I found all the backroutes to that level! Darn it! ;)
Hellish 14: HOW DID I NOT SEE THAT BACKROUTE!? I don't think it will be possible to fix that one...
Hellish 15: this is one of the main reasons I can't convert to NeoLemmix; it gets rid of awesome tricks like this!
Hellish 16: slightly different beginning than I planned, but same solution overall. The long walks actually WERE intended for this level, as the point is these Lemmings are marching for the galactic empire. Just imagine them marching to the Imperial March.
Hellish 17: backrouted slightly, but I may leave that in. It is still really hard to figure out and difficult to execute.
I didn't even check Hellish 18 because Icho discovered a GIGANTIC backroute. I too am really puzzled by the strange brick mechanics. There are no empty pixels; it is solid, but lemmings still treat it like empty space. I'll try to fix that as well.
Hellish 19: backrouted on one of the hardest levels in the game. Shouldn't be hard to fix. You were not supposed to build over the basher tunnel entrance.
Hellish 20: don't worry, I'm halving the amount of lemmings you need to solve and making traps more visible!
Very well done on beating the Hellish rating so quickly! :thumbsup:
this is one of the main reasons I can't convert to NeoLemmix; it gets rid of awesome tricks like this!
Noone says that the NeoLemmix version needs to contain all levels! One of my current projects is to convert my NepsterLems from NeoLemmix to Lix: Of the 111 NeoLemmix levels, only about 80-90 will appear in the Lix version and about 5-10 new levels will be added. My goal is not to port all my levels precisely (not even the original Lemmings did that!), but to provide a version of my level pack for people who prefer Lix over NeoLemmix.
There are no empty pixels; it is solid, but lemmings still treat it like empty space. I'll try to fix that as well.
I am not completely familiar with the SuperLemmini code and how it recognizes air vs. solid terrain. If SuperLemmini automatically sets all pixels with the background color to air, then the problem might simply be that some pixels in the blue terrain pieces have precisely that color. So it might be worth a try to change the background color in this level slightly, which (if I remember correctly) can be done in SuperLemmini.
Hellish 1: like Icho, you made that level MUCH HARDER than you needed to.
Having looked at your solution, I think yours might be a little bit easier to execute, but on the other hand is MUCH harder to come up with. I would go even so far and say, that blocking my backroute/alternative solution would make the level far harder!
Attached the replays to Scary, and here some comments:
1) Fitting scary beginning.
2) see my comments in the contest thread.
3) Very good looking level. My solution was quite fiddly and hard to execute though.
4) The end might not be totally intended here...
5) You might not mind the waiting periods, but I really do! This was a horrible level in that aspect.
6) Nice idea!
7) Clever level! :thumbsup:
8) Another clever and fun level!
9) I would have preferred a slightly smaller version of this level.
10) Excellent looking level and fun to solve, except for that fake ice blower that was NOT fun at all!!! Perhaps put it either on the high tower or below the main steel platform, i.e. out of the way of the lemmings?
11) Very similar to one of the original lemmings levels.
12) A very intimidating level with an extremely fiddly solution!
13) Nice little level teaching basher mechanics.
14) I am 100% sure that simply building straight to the top is not intended...
15) A good level to teach the builder wall, which the title already hints at.
16) Very good level! :thumbsup:
17) A certain little steel piece is too well hidden for my taste. Otherwise a good level.
18) At first I tried to dig between the water and the steel, which failed because the water reaches well into the terrain. Perhaps you could add a bit more steel here, to make it clear that this will not work? Apart from that a very good level that introduces this trick.
19) Very hard to execute with timed bombers, fairly precise builder assignments, ... In NeoLemmix of Lix this level would have been much more fun.
20) WARNING! Hidden trap!!! Without the trap, it would have been much more fun. And it would look even better in my opinion, if you set the water to no-overwrite.
Hellish 1: I don't plan on sealing the backroutes. All of the backroutes have different advantages/disadvantages but all seem equally hard.
Scary 3: Not the intended solution AT ALL! You were supposed to build outward, block, and build back to get that high.
Scary 4: Easy fix. I'll make that thin ledge steel next time. To make it easier on yourself, try putting the blocker at the beginning so only one lemming goes forward.
Scary 5: I'll make that level smaller in the update. It has no right to be that long.
Scary 9: Normally I would make that smaller, but you need pretty much all of the space for its sequel in Hellish. I may totally remake that level with the same solution though.
Scary 10: Uh, you were NOT supposed to be able to walk through the ice blower... You were supposed to build from the right side to the ship and THEN let the people off the ship.
Scary 12: I honestly didn't even know that was POSSIBLE! 0_0 You were supposed to zig-zag up the left side of the course.
Scary 14: You were not supposed to just build up, but I may leave that in. If not, I can just make it an 8 of everything level instead of a 10 of everything level.
Scary 17: I'll make the steel more visible.
Scary 18: I'll adjust the water/steel to fix that problem.
Scary 19: You were kind of supposed to go through the roof ala Call in the bomb squad. I'll make the edges of the ground steel as well.
Scary 20: I'll remove the trap. I put it in because I wanted the boss to actually be a threat.
Once again, thanks for all of the feedback! :D Good luck with Chaotic!
1) Nice idea, but the lemmings on the left come to the edge one frame(!!!) after the corresponding lemmings on the right. This makes it extremely hard to turn them both into builders. Could you please move the hatches on the left perhaps 3 pixels farther to the left. This would already help a lot.
2) Compression Method.
3) Exciting second part of the Love level. I had one problem with it though: I started the long bridge slightly too late and my builder lemming turned around. As there isn't a possibility to turn him again, I had to redo everything and start the bridge earlier. How about adding a 7-pixels drop at the end (i.e. just before one starts the bridge) in case the builder turns around?
4) Very good level! It took me quite some time to find the correct positions.
5) I would swap it with the corresponding Scary level, which I found harder.
6) Sorry, but what is the point of this level? ???
7) see contest.
8) Not hard, but much fun to play.
9) Pure bomber timing :devil:. If something interesting is done with the bombers (like in Hellish 5), then I will gladly make the effort to time them correctly, but here the whole point is getting the timing correctly. Sorry, but I will not play this level.
10) Nice take on the lem-bunching idea.
11) Not sure, if this is intended, because it abuses SuperLemmini mechanics: One-way-arrows cancel steel :lem-mindblown:.
12) Excellent level! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
13) A good level to teach the basher-trick for later hellish levels. But it is easier than the other Hellish levels and not too interesting.
14) This level is extremely hard and should be in the second half of Hellish! A lot of solutions require either 11 or 12 builders or they need a minute more, ...
15) Just look at my solution and you will know what I would write as a comment.
16) Another excellent level that can easily be in Hellish. The (weird) climber mechanics in SuperLemmini remove a few alternative solutions.
17) This level on the other hand should be Scary.
18) I had very much fun playing this level :thumbsup:, even though it is not too complicated.
19) Another excellent level! :thumbsup::thumbsup: Perhaps move this level to a later rank as well.
20) Did you forget to add the exit? I checked in the mouth and on the top, but couldn't find any exit.
Level 1: Good and easy start :)
Level 2: This was actually the solution I mostly use on this level ;)
Level 3: Builders will help you here: Good level idea, even though it took some restarts.
Level 4: This is the hardest level in this rank in my opinion and it's a good one.
Level 5: Quite a few people have used this solution before, so I knew what was up ;)
Level 6: Well, nothing much has changed from the original here a more different solution would have been nice.
Level 7: Precision mining and SuperLemmini is not a good combination, but otherwise an alright level.
Level 8: Also alright, but not very special.
Level 9: A simple climber+bomber and it's already over.
Level 10: Again just a very slight variation of the original.
Level 11: The solution itself is good :), but BOMBER TIMING is not my favorite :devil:
Level 12: Well, nearly nothing has changed just missing the digging tools which arent 100% nessesary.
Level 13: WHY :( I did it with RR 74 first so 1digger for 3Lems, but them the time was over ---> restart As you notices most of the folks don't like WAFD :devil:
Level 14: "Just Dig" and you are nearly done.
Level 15: This is easier than the regular level, as the miner doesn't turn on steel here it leaves only the bomber for that part.
Level 16: Oh how I love me some Bomber timing ........ :devil:
Level 17: That one was good :). I used a similar solution in one of Reunions levels, just swapped that digger with a blocker.
Level 18: The blocker wall is new but apart from that nothing really extraordinary here.
Level 19: This was waaay to easy and I would swap this with "Only floaters can survive this"
Level 20: That's a glitch! :devil::devil: Lemmings must not move through solid terrain! Glad I remembered this trick from the old standard Lemmix version! Saw only 1 destructive skill
and thought right: Ok let's glitch through the wall again :devil: like in the old days. I would replace this level.
I felt no real difficulty here for most of the levels, but I assume I nearly saw EVERYTHING done with the original L1 levels by now over all the years. They mostly bring nothing really new to the table anymore. Also it can be that I solved so much until now that all these old little tricks just fall right into my eyes.
+ some of them could differ a bit more from the original.
The DOS music is still awesome though :thumbsup:
Glad you're enjoying the pack grams! It's always nice to see SuperLemmini get appreciated! :D
Replies to Nepster's Chaotic solutions...
Chaotic 1: I will move the left hatches. Good suggestion! :thumbsup:
Chaotic 2: the pass-through blocker was not intended, but same solution overall! Nicely done! :thumbsup:
Chaotic 3: I will make that small pit. Another great suggestion!
Chaotic 4: I'm glad you enjoyed the level, because I only kept it for the architecture!
Chaotic 5: I may remove this level. I originally intended you to mine RIGHT after hitting the left wall to hit steel and take off a tiny chunk of the wall (a glitch). People don't like that, and there are a ton of backroutes, so this may either get the boot or be seriously changed.
Chaotic 6: the point was I didn't expect you to dig at the top. Guess I'm putting some steel in...
Chaotic 8: Nice job only having to make three steps! :thumbsup:
Chaotic 9: I completely understand your frustration with walking bombing. By all means, if you hate a level, then skip it; the whole point is to have fun. I think this level is excusable because it is the only levels that is solely extensive walk-bombing and I said it "stinks". #stealthpun.
Chaotic 10: Nice job not needing all of the bashers! If you do opt to use them all, you get a single lemming that is actually 10 lemmings bunched together.
Chaotic 11: the actual solution requires all of the skills to be used and for proper timing with the skills. Since Tsyu is planning on fixing the arrow/steel trick, I can leave this unchanged.
Chaotic 12: Wow... O_O That is absolutely NOT what I intended, but it is awesome and tricky enough, I'll leave it in! :thumbsup:
Chaotic 13: Your solution is MUCH better than mine! I think I'll change it to enforce your solution! :thumbsup:
Chaotic 14: Wow. You made that level SO MUCH HARDER than necessary! Check out my replay; the lemmings are supposed to go counter-clockwise to counter the clock. #stealthpun
Chaotic 15: I am extremely tempted to either remove this level and its Sweet counterpart or shorten them both. It could be worse; you originally had 10 minutes, and it was a time-crunch! :devil:
Chaotic 16: Pass-through blocker was not necessary and actually made that level slightly harder.
Chaotic 17: Yeah. I couldn't decide if this level was super good and hard, or super boring and easy. I guess that answers that.
Chaotic 18: Nice job finishing with extra skills! :thumbsup:
Chaotic 19: This was originally in Insane, which explains the difficulty spike. I swapped it with what is now Insane 5, since that level I thought was harder.
Chaotic 20: the exit is past the brickasaur's mouth under the eye, beyond the steel. There is a small metal circle in his mouth; that is where you bash to find the exit.
For IchoTolot
I do agree Retro 20 IS a glitch. I found it accidentally when testing Labyrinth of Lucifer, and thought it was too cool to not make a level after it. It worked perfectly for A task for blockers and bombers.
I'm a bit disappointed other people have found the alternate solutions before me, but at least Only Floaters was new, but I'm not sure I agree that is the hardest level in Retro; I thought level 20 was arguably the hardest level in the game.
I do like how originally before Retro was in ascending order of difficulty, the final level was "And now, the end is near."
10) Not if you set the RR to 99 at the beginning ;)
17) Simple is not equal to super boring! It would be an absolutely fine level somewhere in Scary.
20) I took the small metal circle as a hint "Here is the exit" and would never have come up with the interpretation "Bash here".
1) Another very good level, though slightly on the easy side. It is a prime example, why no-overwrite for exits is so important: I deliberately mined in such a way, that the lemmings all fall on the very right end of the exit platform. But unfortunately, they turned around >:(.
2) Nice prequel to the Hellish level.
3) Point Simon to this level as a good example of a disjoint union (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2296.0) ;). Not exceptionally hard, but fun nevertheless.
PS: The replay should be fairly confusing, because I always jump around on the map. Sorry about that.
4) Given that I knew about the small gaps now, this was much fun!
5) Good looking, nice idea, but way too much climbing and waiting. Especially given the bomber timing at the very end!
6) There is only about a 50% chance that the bomber will actually make a hole and not just a dent. And it is pure luck, what you actually get! Please make the grass platform one pixel thinner.
7) :devil::devil: Invisible terrain :devil::devil: Only found out after making a mistake and letting a lemming fall "into" the water :devil: If you mine at the top, the miner may survive, but there is no way all other lemmings can survive the drop :devil: But to determine this, one needs like 100 tries :devil: And NO, the hint in the title is no excuse at all :devil: My interpretation was, that the single "Jesus"-lemming does go out of his way to help the poor other lemmings. :devil: (and it wouldn't be a hint for buddhists, hindi, ... at all, at least unless they have way more knowledge about christianity than I have about their religion)
8) This trick borders on abusing the game mechanics as well.
9) Sorry for not playing this, but I will only play this once framestepping or something similar is possible in SuperLemmini. In Hellish 9, one knows that the solution one has in mind will actually work, so getting the assignments correct is not too bad. But here, one has to try lots of different approaches, see whether they work out, adapt them and then try again, ... And always one has to deal with these horrible precise skill assignments on the chains.
10) No different than the first occurance of this level.
11) Again the very same solution as in its prequel.
12) The first half is very nice. But the second half is quite fiddly and requires lots and lots of tries. The issue resolved with the bomber at the end shows you what always went wrong. It would be much better if this problematic and fiddly part is at the very beginning of the level to be able to restart the level faster. Don't get me wrong: The trick for the last part is excellent, only its position in the level can be improved.
13) This time the crossing was surprisingly easy to set up.
14) I am almost certain, that this solution is not intended.
15) A nice and fun level, but should be in Scary.
16) This has to be a backroute!
17) A brilliant level! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: There is only one minor problem: The "water" in the middle which reaches quite a bit into the terrain on its left. And this part of the terrain is precisely the location, where I wanted to dig down :( Perhaps one could replace this "water" with a chameleon?
18) Not sure this is 100% intended. I simply did the first thing that came to my mind and somehow it worked... But maybe I just got lucky ;)
19) This level was actually quite fun, despite the waiting periods (that kind of fit within the theme here).
20) Argh! Another "search your exit" level with no indication where it possibly may be. Sorry, people who like these kind of levels are welcome to them, but I have better things to do.
PS: Sorry for the rant about Insane 7.
Insane 1: this level is a bit easy. The reason the exit is NOT set to "no overwrite" is because I didn't want the pole sticking through the exit.
Insane 2: Glad you like it. Originally, this was the Hellish version.
Insane 3: This level was actually originally in Scary. I moved it to Chaotic, and then Insane, because if one didn't know the solutions to the original levels, this would be rather tricky.
Insane 4: One of my favorites! :D This is why I recommend people play Newbie first, even if they are experts.
Insane 5: Admittedly, this level definitely would be better on NeoLemmix. Originally, this was Icing on the Cake and Lemmings about town was in Chaotic. I named this level BEFORE playing the ONML level named almost the same thing.
Insane 6: I would love to see your replay for this level, because you are not supposed to be able to bomb through the grass. Watch my replay to see if you got it right.
Insane 7: Yeah, I knew I would get rants about this level. You make good points; what if I made arrows appear on the terrain above the water to make it more noticable? The platforms are only 1 pixel high, so it would be subtle, but fair.
Insane 8: That is not abusing the game mechanics, this is just a twist on the bridge wall.
Insane 9: I understand you not wanting to play this. Getting the timing right is really just a few replays long though.
Insane 10: This is different. See my replays for this and the Scary version.
Insane 11: This will be tough to seal the backroute, but I think I know how.
Insane 12: I'll see what I can do, but that level is so beautiful (in my eyes) I'm afraid I'll damage it by changing its look.
Insane 13: I thought this was arguably harder than the Hellish incarnation, but this is one of my favorites.
Insane 14: I really want to see your replay now. You're supposed to build two bridge walls to keep the lemmings penned in while two of them work on each side and bash through the "mouth" and blow up to create a giant hole to the exit.
Insane 15: This was supposed to be harder, but I couldn't get the timing right, so I made it much easier; I still think it is a bit advanced for Scary though.
Insane 16: I want that replay.
Insane 17: Judging by your request to change the liquid, I'm guessing you severely backrouted this level.
Insane 18: this level is horribly broken. I'm trying to fix it, but I'm not seeing any way to enforce the solution.
Insane 19: I'm surprised you liked this level so much! I was sure people would be raging about the precision needed for this level. (Sorry you didn't make the wall)
Insane 20: The whole point of Boss levels is to "kill" the boss. That should give you some idea where the exit is. The exit is BARELY visible; a few pixels do stick out, but they're REALLY hard to see. I actually thought this level was arguably easier than the Chaotic boss due to there being no shortage on skills.
1) Then please leave a small gap at the foot of the pole, so that lemmings may reach the exit, even if the fall onto the right edge of the platform.
7) ...or just make that 1-pixel high platform visible?
9) "few replays"... Only if you try the correct solution right away, because you know it to be the correct solution. ;)
Insane:
Level 1: A nice looking + fun level :thumbsup: Solution is not really "Insane" though
Level 2: And here is the miner trick :) A good looking level as well. To save me the time I simply used your replay as I don't wanna spend a lot of tries to a solution I see right away.
Level 3: This was fun but very stressful to do in SuperLemmini.
Level 4: That gaps :devil:! Wasted a few tries on a soltion which was destroyed by a little gap! If the gaps would be visible ---> great level :)
Level 5: Awesome looking level :thumbsup: But I have to agree with Nepster about the waiting involved here. If I just could press on the 10 secs forward skip ---- hint to Tsyu :8():
Level 6: Nice level :) bomber timing away, but make the grass thicker so that it is clear you cannot go through that!
Level 7: Invis terrain :devil::devil::devil: How will I fix that splatfall when I have to use the builder elsewhere :devil: Well just use the not seeable terrain! :devil::devil:
Level 8: This was quite nice :thumbsup:
Level 9: A bit precise, but I would still call it "doable" in SuperLemmini. Nice level :thumbsup:
Level 10: Well gotta build those bridges. This would be better in "Chaotic" or so.
Level 11: The timer is a bit tight but otherwise nice level :thumbsup:
Level 12: Nope, not doing this in SuperLemmini :8(): Next level. :devil:
Level 13: A nice introduction to the miner trick. :)
Level 14: This should be a backroute.
Level 15: Nice idea, but I am using your replay here as well. Won't spend X-replays on this.
Level 16: Cool level :thumbsup: but maybe reduce the walking a bit.
Level 17: My favorite level so far :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: This was excellent!
Level 18: Could be a backroute, if it isn't it is quite easy.
Level 19: This was also excellent! Lokks awesome, not too precise (took me about 4 tries I think) :thumbsup: And hey I'm on the wall 8-)
Level 20: I fought a HORRIBLE BOSS: The brutal HIDDEN EXIT :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:
+ this is quite easy :P
Chaotic:
Level 1: Cool idea, but annoying to pull off.
Level 2: Ähm yes, place that blocker and go.
Level 3: This was exellent :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Level 4: The solution is quite nice, but it is not on my favorite list. Too much trying involved.
Level 5: Oh they turn in SuperLemmini :) But otherwise a very easy level. Maybe move it a rank earlier.
Level 6: Do I really need to comment here :devil::devil::devil::devil:
Level 7: See contest
Level 8: That was a very nice introduction to that trick :thumbsup:
Level 9: It really stinks in SuperLemmini ---> I take your replay and move on :devil::devil:
Level 10: A really nice compression trick :thumbsup:
Level 11: Welp I dug through steel. Gotta fix those steel areas!
Level 12: This is way up my favorite list :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Level 13: Good level to introduce that trick.
Level 14: Get this in Hellish! Good level :thumbsup::thumbsup:, but waaay to hard here!
Level 15: Nope I am not doing all this and mostly just watch :devil::devil: Half of the level size with a ramp to get to the top would have also done the trick.
Level 16: Good level :thumbsup:
Level 17: Also nice but a bit too easy :)
Level 18: Also cool level (a bit easy), but SuperLemmini made me again rage a little here :devil:
Level 19: This is another good one! :)
Level 20: Hidden exit again!! :devil::devil: + this is harder than the next boss
So far Insane + Chaotic were mostly a lot more fun (sometimes even harder) than Hellish + Retro for me, but this could also be a part of how often I had to sit through replays ;P
11) Very good level! :thumbsup:
13) WAFD-Challenge: Solve this level with only two diggers!
18) "Just a Minute"-Challenge: Solve this level with only two builders, one basher and one digger!
20) No, no, no! Until now I thought this glitch already got removed in SuperLemmini... Time to feed it to the :8:()[:
Among the others are some very good levels for newer players, who haven't already seen dozens of these variations.
I like hidden exits, especially if there are clues to its whereabouts. On Chaotic 6, there is a big green X where the exit is which was NOT in the Sweet version. The boss battles are pretty obvious since the point is to KILL the boss. Sorry guys, but those are staying.
Icho's Chaotic Replays
Chaotic 12 is easily one of my favorite levels! :D
Chaotic 14: I am very surprised people had such a hard time with this level! :lem-shocked: I thought for sure it was just a simple level; I guess I'll move it back.
Chaotic 15: some serious editing will need to be done on this level. :(
Both Icho and Nepster's Insane Replays:
Insane 1: you guys backrouted that level, but I think I'll leave it in and push this back to Chaotic or Scary.
Insane 2: like the Hellish version, I think I'll narrow the gap between the ice cream treats.
Insane 3: This level is a bit mean if one hasn't played the original levels, and apparently there are backroutes, but I don't care.
Insane 4: Backrouted. :( But they're still tough enough.
Insane 5: I don't really see how to remove the walking problem without destroying the architecture. Hopefully Tsyu will put in a skip seconds button.
Insane 6: The grass shall be thicker!
Insane 7: I'll make the terrain visible. Barely... The invisible terrain keeps with the theme of the level AND I give a BIG hint that you can walk on the water.
Insane 8: Intended solution, and congrats to Nepster for saving EVERY lemming! :thumbsup:
Insane 9: One of the last levels made for SubLems. Once you know to go up the center chain (which is obvious to me) it's not too bad. I put it in so people wouldn't have AS hard a time on Strike for victory!
Insane 10: Maybe this will be the first level in Insane since 'Merica is getting pushed back. Also, you were NOT supposed to be able to build all the way up. Better fix that.
Insane 11:You BOTH backrouted that level in different ways! I'm sealing Nepster's since it BREAKS the level, but Icho's might stay. It's still pretty hard.
Insane 12: I was wondering if Nepster was going to finish with 100%. That would have shocked me. Very well done! :thumbsup:
Insane 13: Another one of my favorites.
Insane 14: It seems you guys managed to break pipe monster, but he'll be back with a vengeance...
Insane 15: well, I may just gut this level. That or spend a while fixing backroutes.
Insane 16: Icho solved this perfectly! :thumbsup: Nepster backrouted it something awful. Easy fix.
Insane 17: NOOOOOOOOOOOO! You guys backrouted one of the toughest levels in the game! Your solutions were both great though. I think they'll stay; maybe I'll enforce the solution in a new level.
Insane 18: This level was broken to begin with. It will take some work.
Insane 19: This level used to be a big time crunch, but I gave you extra time to avoid extra raging. As such, the hardest trick needed for the level (having a basher and a miner cancel each other out) is no longer necessary.
That's me completed the SCary ranking of your sublems pack. :thumbsup:
You guys seem very fast at completing the levels I see Ichotolot is on to the more advanced levels and Nepster seems to be around the harder levels as well. Good going guys. :thumbsup:
Okay lets see if I can get the spoiler tag to work lol. Oh no if it does not work please don't read the next part, well I try not to give too much away just in case it does not work.
I really liked the boss battle 2 and me thinks I recognise the song from somewhere, In the boss battle I did a bit of muti tasking which is something that can be difficult at times when you have two lemmings building. I like your idea with the whole boss thing where you technically kill the boss by digging into him although he could still probably survive those attacks and eat us. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
The level where you only have one lemming tricked me a bit for sometime then the soluition hit me right in the face, with the builder trick thing at the end of the level.
I have a good feeling I may of back routed the (An evelavator would be handy) level
There was that one level (la cassa del leming) where I tried my best to backroute but the back route itself was a lot harder than the intended solution, well me thinks the replay is the intended solution for the level, I could be wrong. :8:()[:
They might be replays that you have seen before but most of them should be new ones.
So far it seems a very good pack, I like a lot of the puzzles so far. The one that had me stumped for a couple of days was the basher one but I was trying something so different that it was probably never going to work anyway but that's me completed that level. okay anyway.
You made an interesting point about hidden exits ColorfulArty, yeah I like the whole hidden exit thing myself. I like a level where you have to search for the exit, like a treasure hunt adventure. I wonder if the hidden exit thing is popular with other lemmings player, could be or maybe not. I would say I like them for myself. I guess it comes down to the thing like how often it appears maybe if it appears a lot it can get annoying.
Seems a good pack still. :thumbsup: