Lemmings Forums
Lemmings Boards => Reviews => Topic started by: Shvegait on April 27, 2005, 01:58:04 AM
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I wasn't sure whether or not to put this in the Level Designing forum or not, but the other Level List Game topics are here, so I think this makes more sense for consistency. Even though this isn't a level list game in the same sense, I'm just calling the thread this again for consistency.
This time, instead of reviewing levels from official games, we'll instead review user-created Lemmings levels. This topic will be limited to CustLemm/LemEdit levels. If someone else wants to start a Cheapo one, go ahead.
Since Timballisto suggested the idea and wanted his packs reviewed, we'll start with his first pack. (When I downloaded it, the levels weren't even in a pack, just individual levels. Timballisto, you might want to put them into a .dat pack for everyone's sanity. Btw, I'm calling your pack Timb01 instead of pack1...)
To get the screenshots, I just got different views of the level in DOSBox, took several screenshots, then put them together. It's not too difficult to do, but I've gotten pretty fast at it and wouldn't mind making screenshots for different people's levels on request.
Without further ado...
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb01/1.png)
Timb01 - Level 1 - The Iron Puzzle
10 climb, 10 float, 5 bomb, 4 block, 3 build, 10 bash, 10 dig
80 Lemmings
87% to save
RR 1
Time: ? minutes (>10)
Good: It stays true to its name.
Bad: More than 10 minutes? You could finish it in just 1! Also, the hidden traps turn out not being hard to avoid at all.
A note: I'll be putting up all the screenshots for this topic on this server space that I have access to. The other screenshots for this pack can be found at this address:
http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/
File name for the picture is Pack ID (in all lowercase, case sensitivity matters) + hyphen + level number.png
So timb01-2.png is the next one.
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cool! &#A0;Oh, and after looking through all the pics I realized
"...Man...those levels were horrible!" &#A0;well, in difficulty atleast.
So, pick on em all you want- they needed help. &#A0;I'm glad to say I think I've gotten better at making levels :P.
I'd also like to note that my levels aren't supposed to be more difficult as they go through the pack. I don't know how to put levels in order. What's the order of levels played? Is it 1,5,2,3,4,0? Actually, when does the 0 level get played?
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The levels in custlemm should play in the order you saved them in the pack. (0,1,2,3,etc...)
That particular order is familiar to the order of the levels in level009.dat (The datafile containing the first Fun levels). Here is a complete list to the order of the levels in "level009.dat".
Level in pack -> Level in game
#0 -> Level 30 Mayhem
#1 -> Level 1 Fun
#2 -> Level 4 Fun
#3 -> Level 5 Fun
#4 -> Level 6 Fun
#5 -> Level 2 Fun
#6 -> Level 3 Fun
#7 -> Level 7 Fun
#8 -> Not Used
#9 -> Not Used
In other words, the order is 1, 5, 6, 2, 3, 4, 7.
The most annoying thing is that this system is not consistent in all the packs. Lemmings loads each level pack differently (See "Mike, I want to ask you" topic). When I find the orders of other packs I'll let you know.
Levels #8 and #9 are not used in any of the level00X.dat files.
Oh, and Shvegait, there is already a cheapo level list game.
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Oh, and Shvegait, there is already a cheapo level list game.
While this is true, only the "Crazy" set was reviewed, because they were the levels that came bundled with Cheapo. But yes, perhaps it should just be adapted to review other levels as well. Not sure what I was thinking :P
Timballisto, your levels were in a zip file with level names "Jeff1", "Jeff2", etc. I just put those in order in the set, and that's how they are numbered here. If that's unsatisfactory feel free to change it, it's your set after all. Not all levels have to necessarily be in order of increasing difficulty, though.
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This looks like a fun game! Are we reviewing all the levelpacks, one after the other, from each designer, or just one at a time? Like, we could do all Timbalisto's packs, then all of the next member, or we could just do his first pack, then somebody else's pack, and so on. Anyway . . .
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb01-2.png)
Timb01 Level 2 - Lemmings on the Roof
Save: 75/80
Time: 8 minutes
RR: 1
Skills:
Climbers: 1
Floaters: 1
Bombers: 2
Blockers: 3
Builders: 8
Bashers: 1
Good: Much more of a puzzle that the previous level, and a nice built up layout.
Bad: The actual solution is more boring than the apparent route!
Also, we could each extract images of our own levelpacks and send them to Shvegait if we want them reviewed. I'll have to find time to do mine later on . . .
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Conway, I was thinking of going one pack at a time and then switching up the authors (or maybe a couple of packs at a time, but not necessarily all of them). This way we spread the feedback around, and also are able to keep everyone involved. If we were to do all of your levels in a row, for example, we'd be here for quite a long time, and you'd be unable to participate (though I'm sure it still would be interesting to you)... know what I'm saying?
About images, I don't mind going through everyone's packs and taking screenshots, etc. I've got a pretty fast and consistent method for doing this and it really only takes a minute or two for each level, depending on size of course. Plus my classes are just ending now and I'll have a bit of free time to kill for a little while.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb01/3.png)
Timb01 - Level 3: &#A0;Lost mines - Through the furnace
2 blockers, 20 builders, 5 bashers
80 Lemmings
87% to save
RR: 20
Time: 7 minutes
Good: The starting area is interesting. It can be tough to isolate the lemmings, especially if you're going for 100%. Also, you only have a limited number of bashers, so you can't be wasteful. This level starts a little story for the lemmings that goes on for the next few levels.
Bad: It winds up being pretty easy because you only need to save 87%. Also this is one of those levels where one lemmings does everything while the rest are held back by a blocker.
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I have an idea
Since I was priveleged with getting the first review, I can keep track of this for awhile.
I think we should have a few simple rules as follows:
1.If you want your pack reviewed, say so and which one, and then I'll add the request to the end of the list of reviews in line.
2.You can't review the same pack twice unless for some reason the majority of the members want to.
3.If you sign up for a review, you can't sign up for another one until atleast two other reviews are requested.
For this to work, we should try to keep the reviews moving at a fair pace, as I know several people have made tons of level packs.
Thanks for the reviews. The bads give good criticisms so far and will help me with future levels.
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Hmm, I had a slightly different idea in mind.
Instead of having to ask people to review your levels, how about nominating other authors' level packs?
So I could propose that we do Conway's first pack after this one. It's more fun this way, imo, than the other, which feels like work almost.
What does anyone else think?
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That's good for me. Sure, why not do Conway's next.
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I agree with Shvegait. It's far better and more democratic to nominate a levelpack to be reviewed than for the author to have to ask. Maybe the rules could look like this:
1. At any time while a pack is being reviewed, a member can suggest the next levelpack.
2. If you don't want your levelpack(s) reviewed, you must explicitly say so. If the author of a nominated levelpack doesn't permit or refuse the review, we can assume it's okay. Otherwise we could be waiting indefinitely to review packs from members such as Jaunjo, Gareth or Steaver, who have made some great levels, but hardly ever visit.
3. You cannot review the same pack twice unless for some reason the majority of the members want to.
4. You cannot review two levelpacks in a row from the same author.
5. As with the Lemming Level List Game, you must give a good and bad point about the level you are reviewing.
6. As with the forum rules, no double posting, ect . . .
7. You cannot review your own level, but I suppose that goes without saying!
I'm okay for any of my levelpacks to be reviewed. I'll get on with those screenshots if you haven't already, Shvegait.
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Those guidelines sound good. I somehow doubt we'd ever have a case to re-review a pack, unless it was updated. And like in the other Level List Games, anyone can feel free to make a comment on an already reviewed level even if they didn't review it :)
Conway, your first pack's screenshots are up, by the way.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb01-4.png)
Timb01-4 - Lost Mines - Going Underground!
Save: 20/40
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 50
Skills: 10 of everything
Good: Nice, short layout.
Bad: 50%? That's almost insulting! Try 100%; now there's a decent challenge!
Shvegait, thanks for the screenshots!
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What is the quickest way to get screenshots of our levels?
Is it better to get screenshots from LemEdit or from CustLemm?
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Custlemm doesn't work in Dosbox, does it? And as far as I know, it needs to be windowed to get a screenshot.
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I've done full screen shots-although how I don't know :p
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Perhaps if it was opened as a 2KB individual level file in WinLemm, and set at the smallest graphics size, with the window maximised and at a high enough screen resolution, you could capture the entire level at once.
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I've just been doing Ctrl+F5's in DOSBox for each level (CustLemm), then cropping those screenshots (they are 320x200, go to Attributes in Paint, set height down to 160) and merging them (select all, copy/paste). It actually doesn't take long at all.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb01/5.png)
Timb01 - Level 5: Lost Mines - Lemming cooperation
60 Lems
66% to save
RR: 40
Time: 6 mins
Skills: 6 builders, 4 bashers, 1 of everything else
Good: It's not immediately obvious how to save the lower group of lemmings. Limited number of skills makes you have to think how to use them. Better than the earlier levels :)
Bad: Only 66%? 100% would be a challenge. You can get the lower group of lemmings into the upper exit easily (backroute?), with builders and bashers to spare (Easy to fix with one-way walls).
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb01/6.png)
Timb01 Level 6 - Lost Mines - The Ruins of Lem
Save: 5/10
Time: 6 minutes
RR: 1
Skills:
Blockers: 1
Builders: 15
Bashers: 5
Miners: 1
Good: A nice and short layout to get through.
Bad: Certainly easier than most of the levels before it, and far too generous with the statistics. And why only 50%? I saved 100% in just under 1:30, and with 10 builders to spare! Still, it's a good practice level.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb01/7.png)
Timb01 Level 7: Lost Mines - down,around,through
50 Lems
60% to save
RR: 60
Time: 5 mins
Skills: 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 15 builders
Good: Furthers the journey of the lemmings in this pack. Lemmings have to go in a circle to get to the exit. The volcano is kind of cool (though irrelevant).
Bad: Yet another level where one lemming does all the building. Boring and obvious! Extra time, extra builders, and why only 60%? Also, the terrain looks a little shoddy. (Don't take offense, I know your second pack is better :) )
NOTE: I changed the directory structure of the pictures so they're more organized, in directories with the name of the pack and files with just the number of the level and the file extension. So instead of timb01-1.png, use timb01/1.png. This will make it more organized when there are more files. (So that's why your pictures aren't showing, Conway. Sorry bout that.)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb01/8.png)
Timb01 Level 8 - Into the Underground Ruins
Save: 78/80
Time: 6 minutes
RR: 60
Skills:
Bombers: 2
Blockers: 2
Builders: 3
Bashers: 2
Miners: 1
Diggers: 1
Good: A nice variety of terrain pieces, and it has a nice no-builder backroute.
Bad: Far too easy, especaily for the last level of the pack!
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OK. Timb01's review is complete. Now on to Conway01.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway01/1.png)
Conway01 Level 1 - Up and away
10 Lems
100% to save
RR: 79
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 10 climbers, 10 floaters, 1 builder
Good: A nice simple level to start out the pack. Also a good warm-up for precisely placing a builder.
Bad: Design looks almost too simple. If you forget to raise the release rate, you're 1 second short, and need to try to place that builder again! Clearly that's intentional based on the odd number 79, but it's still evil!
Is anyone else going to jump in on this game? It will go faster if we have more than two reviewers per pack! If you haven't played these levels, now's your chance. And if you have, it shouldn't be much work to cook up a small review. :)
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Well, as soon as I get some computer issues worked out, I will be able to transfer files around again. &#A0;I can't do that now. &#A0;I'm sure Conway has made some good levels-better than those ones I made for sure.
Oh, and a note, if I can get the order in which levels are played, I'll arrange my packs by difficulty...I guess.
What happens to level 0 anyway?
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If you forget to raise the release rate, you're 1 second short, and need to try to place that builder again!
Given that this is a one minute level, if you really are foolish enough to not raise the release rate, I'd say you deserve the punishment. :P :devil: :D
And I have to say that, as a person who's not particularly artistic or visual-oriented, I don't think the level is too horrible visually, just a little plain that's all. I can certainly understand why a level designer would not want to waste too much time on adding pointless visuals, however spectacular, that adds nothing to the puzzle, especially on the first level of a pack (after all, save the best ones for later, right?).
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And I have to say that, as a person who's not particularly artistic or visual-oriented, I don't think the level is too horrible visually, just a little plain that's all.
Well actually I do have one specific gripe about the visuals of that level. I don't like the way he omits the right ends of the horizontal pillars, it just looks really odd to me, and I see no puzzle-specific reasons to omit them.
(By "end" I'm talking about the structure seen in, for example, the left side of the horizontal pillar below the exit.)
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Now you mention it, the level does look a little odd. I guess I was still getting used to arranging the terrain artistically.
Timballisto, are you referring to the numbers beside the levels in Lemedit? The levels are displayed in the order they are played in Custlemm. #0 in Lemedit is level 1, #1 is level 2, ect.
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Added a bunch of level pics to http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/ :)
Insane Steve, it seems my versions of your packs are somewhat corrupted (Game crashed on Level 3 and beyond on ISteve02.dat). Is there some place I can find working versions of your packs?
Still need someone to help review Conway's pack...
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I don't use custlemm!
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Oh. How do you play your own levels? And do you mean you don't as in you're not willing to...?
Well, any other takers? Please B)
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Okay, I'll do Level 2, but I haven't played anything past level 5 in this pack, so when you're that far you'd be on your own.
Level 2: Don't want to give too much away
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway01/2.png)
Skills: 10 of everything
Number of lemmings: 20
100% to be saved
Release Rate: 20
Time: 3 minutes
Good: Nice and attractive level design, perfect for it's position in the pack. The time limit's nice 'n' tight too!
Bad: I dont know the 'Over' solution.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway01/3.png)
Conway01 Level 3 - Head start
70 Lems
100% to save
RR: 95
Time: 5 minutes
Good: A cool idea for a level, and it's fun to play.
Bad: A little too easy, especially with all of those builders.
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Level 4: Round the bend
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway01/4.png)
Skills: 1 Climber
1 Floater
1 Bomber
10 Builders
4 Bashers
2 miners
4 diggers
Number of lemmings: 64
98% to be saved
Release Rate: 15
Time: 5 minutes
Good: No blockers makes the level a little more difficult
Bad: I don't know if I found the intended solution, or a backroute
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If you ignored the whole bend area and went over the top, that's a backroute. That's what I did, but Conway said you're supposed to actually go round the bend.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway01/5.png)
Conway01 Level 5 - As soon as yr back is turned....
80 Lems
90% to save
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Good: Uses a very cool trick. Challenging level. Nice level design, although it's clearly impossible to go all the way to the right.
Bad: It can be really hard to place the builders right in CustLemm. The 90% requirement seems just a little too harsh. Could have sacrificed two periods in the title for "ou" in your. :P
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Oh. How do you play your own levels? And do you mean you don't as in you're not willing to...?
Well, any other takers? Please B)
No, I'm willing to use Custlemm. Also, I'm willing to try these levels out, only I can't given the current circumstances. I think Custlemm levels play in lemmings. I think I've tried it before. I don't have Custlemm. If you're asking how I make my own levels, I just use lem edit, alt-tab to the desktop, launch lemmings, test, and switch back and forth until I get the level right.
EDIT: Wait...I'm on my dad's computer...oh duh. I can play lemmings over here. Well, time to go get those level packs...
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That's odd. Which operating system do you have? Custlemm should work in XP, and every version before that. Not sure about Macs . . .
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Added a bunch of level pics to http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/ :)
Insane Steve, it seems my versions of your packs are somewhat corrupted (Game crashed on Level 3 and beyond on ISteve02.dat). Is there some place I can find working versions of your packs?
My Useless Website (http://insanesteve.tripod.com) has all 9 sets. Maybe try there? I have no idea what corrupts my sets -- they work fine for me...
Conway01 - Level 6: Don't Just Dig
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway01/6.png)
Good: A very clever digger trick is required here. A neat looking level design, to boot.
Bad: It's a bit tedious to place the builders in a way that passes the level.
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Thanks Insane Steve, those files worked. I think it was because I had downloaded them off of Garjen, and some of their files were corrupted.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway01/7.png)
Conway01 - Level 7: Change of plan
50 Lems
78% to save
RR: 15
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 30 diggers
Good: A fun and simple level that pushes the "bashing" ability of diggers.
Bad: Lots of pausing to get the perfect positioning.
Note: It's possible to save more than 78% by freeing a digger (time them at different heights), but I'm glad you kept the target at 78%...!
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OK, I've added more level pictures of 2 packs each from Insane Steve, Juanjo, DragonsLover, Tumble Weed, and Hubert and Bart (Hubbart). (For Tumble Weed's, I skipped his training pack 00, and I don't have a picture of the 10th level of 02, because it crashes for me...)
We haven't nominated the next pack yet. I'm wondering if it's better to review one from someone who frequents the forum or not. Certainly those by those on the forum could be more helpful, but if we reviewed other packs we could probably do them faster... Or we could mix it up...
So I'll nominate two and let someone else decide.
On forum: ISteve01.dat
Not on forum: Garjen00.dat
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I've started playing other people's levels. They claim I need to use Custlemm, but I find that I can use lemmings and it'll play it all the same. Oh, and custlemm worked on my computer(s), it's just that I didn't have it until now. Unfortunately, all the levels in the Conway 01 pack I've beaten have already been reviewed.
I say we review Insane Steve's. Maybe I can play his levels and keep up.
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Timballisto, CustLemm is just the original Lemmings (actually, I think it's ONML) modified to easily read the "levelpak.dat" format instead of the "level00#.dat" format. You don't need it, but it makes life a lot easier.
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Yeah, if you want to play custom levels in Lemmings, you need to know which slots are for which levels, because most (all?) series of 10 levels in Lemmings are from a combination of different levelpacks. But Custlemm is better and more logical because it plays ten levels from one levelpack in the order they appear in Lemedit.
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Level006.dat has levels Mayhem 4 through Mayhem 11 in a row, but all of the original Lemmings packs have only 8 levels in them, and Timballisto's packs have 8 levels in them so that would work...
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I have no problem with ISteve01 being next to be reviewed. It'll be interesting to see how my first levels look now that I know how to use LemEdit...
Conway01 - Stage 8: A Real Breakthrough
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway01/8.png)
Good: I like how the level requires you to think somewhat about how to clear the three barriers. The layout is also cool-looking.
Bad: Timing the bombers exactly can be somewhat annoying.
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I tried Custlemm this morning, but I have a question-what setting do you use? At the beginning, you can say 1-4. Which one do I pick?
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I tried Custlemm this morning, but I have a question-what setting do you use? &#A0;At the beginning, you can say 1-4. &#A0;Which one do I pick?
I use 1 (PC compatibles). These are the same choices you get when you try to run ONML. This is what you're talking about, right? Then again I run it under DOSBox, but I use #1 for ONML under XP and it works fine.
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I remember a while back I tried the other options under DOSBox just for kicks. Two of them didn't work at all, and the other one showed up but with strange colors.. I think it crashed after you try to start up a level though.
Someone going to do "I am not AT, but close enough"? Only reason I ask is that level 10 is quite long while level 9 is short, so for people who haven't played this far into the pack, playing through 9 would be easier than going through 10, and then I'd go ahead and review 10.
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I tried Custlemm this morning, but I have a question-what setting do you use? &#A0;At the beginning, you can say 1-4. &#A0;Which one do I pick?
Definitely PC compatible. It's the only one that would have any chance of being compatible with modern machines and Windows (though to be fair I haven't tried out the other options). Most of the other ones, I'm too young to remember much about them, I think they are PC clones with certain miscellaneous extra features (perhaps mainly for games?). It would seem that they gradually fall out of favor for various reasons, so I'm not even sure where you'd find one of those machines listed.
Since the game probably takes advantage of or compensation for whatever pecularities and features those systems have, it probably will not work or work well unless you have those specific types of machines. Whereas PC compatible is more like the lowest common denominator.
Of course, there's no harm in trying the other ones as well. The worst is Lemmings will crash that's all. (That being said, disclaimer here that if your PC does explode in a puff of black smoke, I'm not responsible. :P)
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I played what I thought were some people's levels.
Do any of these level names sound familiar? I can't find the images for them.
-Flugtag!
-New Lemming Technology
-Frosty
-Under Construction
-LEMMINGS FOREVER ! ! !
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Flugtag! is ISteve02.dat Level 2, I think. The others I'm not sure...
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If you ignored the whole bend area and went over the top, that's a backroute.
Yeah, that's what I done.
I played through all of Conway01.dat the other day. I think I finished every level except level 10, 'cause it seems too much like 'Hunt the nessy' with 4 trapdoors, and I found it quite boring.
Level 9: I am not AT - But close enough
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway01/9.png)
Number of lemmings 80
62% to be saved
Release Rate: 65
Time: 2 minutes
Good: A nice DOS remake of one of the best Genesis levels.
Bad: It's possible to save excess of 70%. The 62% save limit I thought was too low.
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I agree Isu, 62% did seem rather low.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway01/10.png)
Level 10 - Care a little, help a lot
80 Lems
75% to save
RR: 1
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 10 climb, 20 float, 20 bomb, 20 block, 50 build, 40 bash, 40 mine, 40 dig
Good: Nice of use of terrain to spell out the words. You have to multitask, sort of. Couple of terrain traps you have to keep an eye out for.
Bad: LONG! You better not make a stupid mistake or you'll just get frustrated... Also, very straightforward.
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-New Lemming Technology
-Frosty
-Under Construction
-LEMMINGS FOREVER ! ! !
If I remember right these are mine. :D
edit:// I just checked:
---------- = Level 1: Frosty Lemmings
IRRTDTSICR = Level 2: Under Construction
VRTDTSAJCO = Level 3: New Lemmings Technology
RTDTSIVKCX = Level 4: Lemmings For Ever ! ! !
The first 4 levels of my pack.
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I got past Flugtag but now I'm stuck on "Is so easy"....which, is Not so easy.
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So who is going to review "Rhapsody"?
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I'm having problems logging in at the moment, bear with me.
Isteve01.dat - Level 1 - Rhapsody
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve01/1.png)
Skills: 5 Climbers
4 Floaters
3 Bombers
2 Blockers
2 Builders
3 Bashers
4 Miners
5 Diggers
Number of lemmings 80
95% to be saved
Release Rate: 99
Time: 7 minutes
Good: It's clearly obvious that you can't use the compression method to go straight to the exit.
Bad: Waiting for the basher to finish at the bottom.
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Sorry, I can't resist taking the opportunity for a shameless plug.
If you liked "Rhapsody", why not try Rhapsody in Blue (http://www.geocities.com/zarathustra47/Rhapsody.ZIP)? It's pretty much the same layout, but it's BLUE! And with only two of each skill it's a hell of a lot harder. (I've shown it to Insane Steve already, so he know he doesn't mind my basing a level on his; but it's had a good few backroutes removed since then, so if you're reading this, Steve, please take the opportunity to download it and have another go!)
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I think I tried "Rhapsody in Blue" before, but I don't have any ideas on how to pass it, yet.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve01/2.png)
ISteve01 - Level 2: The Thin Red Line (Colorblind)
60 Lems
60% to save
RR: 20
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 0 blockers, 10 of everything else
Good: Seems impossible at first glance and yet has a cool solution.
Bad: It can take a few tries to implement the solution in CustLemm.
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I can forsee this thread being a long one, maybe even longer than the original lemming level list game, who knows.
Level 3: It's not that easy, I'm afraid
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve01/3.png)
Skills: 2 Climbers
2 Floaters
2 Bombers
2 Blockers
2 Builders
2 Miners
2 Diggers
Number of lemmings 60
95% to be saved
Release Rate: 10
Time: 3 minutes
Good: You can't just bash through, the solution involves going the long way around.
Bad: 95%? You could save 96% without changing the solution.
I might have finished "Rhapsody in blue", I need to check it...
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve01/4.png)
ISteve01 - Level 4: Turning around demo #172
10 Lems
100% to save
RR: 99
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 5 of everything
Good: A short fun level that requires a little bit of good placement/timing.
Bad: Seems too similar to "The Thin Red Line (Colorblind)" and is so close to it in the pack. Plus, it's easier!
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I nominate ISteve02 for the next review...since that's the only one I've really played other than Conway's (finally I might be able to do something).
Who's going to do level 5?
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I thought we weren't going to review two packs by the same author in a row. It doesn't really matter to me though.
Why don't you review 5, Timballisto? I can't, I reviewed 4...
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I will as soon as I play the level. I need to do some other things first, but I'll get to it eventually.
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Added screenshots for Conway04-13, ISteve04-09, Hubbart 3 and 4, and Steaver's pack at http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/.
Still need someone to review 5. Cmon, it's easy!
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I don't have CustLemm, but I have access to Insane Steve's website, so here ya go!
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve01/5.png)
Level 5: BLEEEEEGGGGGGH!
Save 97% of 70
Release rate 20
1 minute
10 climbers, 5 bombers, 5 blockers, 2 of everything else
Good: you only get one minute, so you won't waste hours on different possibilities
Bad: really awful title, and.... let's face it.... big cheapie.
Really bad: and wasn't it Insane Steve who didn't manage to work out Manclimber United?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve01/6.png)
ISteve01 - Level 6: Catch-22
60 Lems
70% to save
RR: 1
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 5 climbers, 10 blockers, 50 builders, 10 diggers
Good: A cool concept for a level. Nice symmetrical design, and looks intimidating at first.
Bad: Since only 25% of the lemmings come out of the center trapdoor, you don't need to worry about those lemmings at all. You can even make use of a couple of the blockers and still make the very low 70% save percentage.*
I took a glance at ISteve01.txt, and at the time Insane Steve wrote that, he put a hint in that said you have to figure out a way to save the middle, so I'm guessing he didn't realize that only 25% and not 33% come out of the center (at least back when he made the level).
*In Cheapo, this level doesn't have this problem (save 75/90, and 30 come from the center window). I haven't beaten it there yet, though, so I can't comment beyond that.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve01/7.png)
ISteve01 - Level 7: >>>>wAy Up YoNdEr<<<<
Save: 68/80
Time: 8 minutes
RR: 99
Skills:
Bombers: 20
Blockers: 20
Builders: 50
Bashers: 2
Miners: 2
Diggers: 20
Good: A decorative title, and a nice, open-plan level with a bit of leeway and plenty of skills. Out of interest, has anyone ever managed to save 100%? I've just spent the last 30 minutes trying. I'm sure it's possible, just very tricky!
Bad: The high release rate can get slightly annoying.
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I still don't realise that Catch-22 can be done without bothering the center group in LemEdit. I need to fix this somehow (Make it 76% to save?). Thanks for the heads-up.
I've formulated a lot of interesting solutions to "Rhapsody in Blue" -- but a lot of them either run out of time or are missing one skill or so. I'll get it eventually.
I did eventually figure out "Manclimber United" -- but it took a lot longer than it should because I tend to "eye" my solutions -- that is, I visualizae my plan of attack before I attack. I bet that if I saw my own 1.5 without having known the trick, I'd be a bit unnerved when I accidently stumbled across the answer. Then again, I was a bit inexperienced when I made ISteve01.dat.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve01/8.png)
ISteve01 - Level 8: Watch Ye Step!
80 Lems
92% to save
RR: 85
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 1 of each
Good: One-of-each-skill levels are always fun. This one has quite a clever solution.
Bad: It can take a few tries to implement even when you know what to do. By working backwards it's pretty easy to figure out. The part where you need the floater seems unnecessary (except to require all skills).
Note: Just because I put more bad things than good doesn't mean I didn't thoroughly enjoy the level :) It's just easier to come up with things to nitpick about... :P
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Bad: It can take a few tries to implement even when you know what to do.
The solution Insane Steve mentioned might save the most lemmings, but since we only need 92% (up to 6 lost), I believe there's a slightly easier solution:
1) After 2nd lemming emerges, raise RR to 99
2) After 5th lemming emerges, lower RR back to 85 (not strictly necessary)
3) 1st lemming bombs as close to the first trap as possible, so that the bombed hole goes under the first trap allowing everyone to pass that trap. 2nd lemming will die.
4) Make 7th lemming blocker after the bombed hole.
5) Because of the RR adjustment, as lemmings 3-6 goes thru the remaining 3 traps, 3 will die but the last one will remain.
6) Have him do the usual mining upwards. However, you no longer need to be precise, because you will keep mining until you are about 6-8 pixels below ground level, then you will bash left to free the blocker.
7) With luck, the basher might even stop bashing at the bombed hole, but even if you lost him, you've just saved enough for 92%.
The hardest part of this solution is to time the bomber, but at least it's less frustrating then incorrectly positioning the miner towards the end as ISteve's solution requires.
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I think I've revised Watch Ye Step! to require 96% (77/80) but never bothered to re-upload the pack to Garjen for whatever reason. The Cheapo version of the level only allows you to lose 3 lemmings.
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Indeed, and my imitation only allows you to lose two, but then it exploits a Cheapo glitch, namely the fact that if you bash in the pixel before a trap you'll go right through it (similar to a trick Insane Steve uses on another level with bashing through a blocker). Unfortunately I no longer have the level..... I semi-accidentally deleted more than half of my Cheapo levels, sets and styles last night....... fortunately mostly all other people's levels, so it will be possible for me to re-obtain them.
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Since tumble_weed wanted to continue on with this, and Ahribar said we should get rid of the rule of no reviewing two levels in a row, here we go. I still don't think people should review multiple levels in a row unless there is a bit of a time period between the reviews.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve01/9.png)
ISteve01 - Level 9: Having fun yet? Good.
80 Lems
80% to save
RR: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 10 climb, 1 float, 20 bomb, 10 block, 20 build, 2 bash
Good: An interesting concept that you have to get to the exit by bombers.
Bad: I saved 95% on my first try of the level. There is a huge surplus of tools that makes it feel very easy for its position in the pack.
Edit: Insane Steve, I just now looked at your solution in your help file, and you make it sound like it is all about timing. Yet you forget that you give 10 blockers, so no timing is necessary, at all! I can only assume the blockers were accidentally added (I mean, giving 10 instead of 1, or some such thing).
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See, originally, the level relied on the lemmings not being able to direct drop into the exit. So... ya. I couldn't fix it so it looked even remotely hard.
See, that's the difference between a first pack and a 9th pack, methinks.
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See, originally, the level relied on the lemmings not being able to direct drop into the exit. So... ya. I couldn't fix it so it looked even remotely hard.
Direct drop??? :???: I can't play the level now, but on first glance it would look like the simplest solution would be to have one lemming float down, then build bridges to catch the fall, then set blockers and blow up a hole in the bridge to open up the way to the exit.
So, which part of this will be thwarted?
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There is no direct drop. I used 4 blockers and 4 bombers, though, with the floater and about 7 or 8 builders. I only used 1 basher.. I could've saved 96% if I had used one more basher and 1 less blocker/bomber.
The easy part is that you give 10 blockers!
Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, though.
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The very, very, very first prototype of the level placed the exit, not buried, directly underneath the one pixel gap. What I thought happened was a non-floater splatted if it hit the ground, but a floater jumped into the exit before one could build ramps -- the idea being that you had to time a bomber to blow a hole under the exit to send the floater down for buiilding ramps.
It all imploded when I discovered non-floaters could exit like this.
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If the level were such that the exit were a couple pixels to the right (I know they are moved 8 at a time, so other parts of the level would have to be moved, but hear me out), then even a floater building right away would be forced to exit, and you'd still need to bomb to prevent the floater from exiting.
I might try making a level like this sometime and see if this actually works out.
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If the level were such that the exit were a couple pixels to the right (I know they are moved 8 at a time, so other parts of the level would have to be moved, but hear me out), then even a floater building right away would be forced to exit, and you'd still need to bomb to prevent the floater from exiting.
I might try making a level like this sometime and see if this actually works out.
Just be aware it might be possible to send down a floater facing left instead of right. Of course there are many ways to prevent that fact from becoming a backroute, just keep that possibility in mind.
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:) ok yeah i didn't realise this topic existed...
I locked the other topic that i made, since it's pointless
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve01/10.png)
isteve01 - level 10 - "Why Can't They Just Run?"
5 - Climbers
40 - Floaters
10 - Bombers
5 - Block
20 - Build
10 - Bash
Lemmings - 80
Save - 100%
RR - 1
Time - 1 Minute
Good:Brilliant level. My second favourite level in this levelpak (first - rhapsody). This is the kind of level that would be really easy if you had more time, even with 2 minutes this could be really easy, but instead you have to find a quicker way. Took me a few turns to realise what to do, took me about 30 turns to actually get it right.
Also the level is nice and simple, looks good, with for whatever reason strange dangly things up the top left
Bad: Pedantic - the top entrance should be moved down 1 pixel and the bottom one should be moved up. Also it does get frustrating after a while, there was always a lemming that turned away from the exit.
oh and Steve what is the actual intended solution for "Turning around demo #172"...I assume that it is just to get the lemmings up the top to build a wall to stop the left lemmings...
B)
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Also it does get frustrating after a while, there was always a lemming that turned away from the exit.
Hmm, sounds like your solution is way more interesting than what Insane Steve wrote in his walkthrough (http://insanesteve.tripod.com/ISteve01_Help.txt) for that set......
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Ya, my solution for that one is just an unfair trick, although now that I know it can be solved without that trick, I'm a bit curious how that works. I should try passing it without the trick.
I'ma ctually a bit relieved that the level is possible without using that solution. Back when I was a LemEdit tyro, I thought that was a clever trick, but now I realise it's more unfair than clever.
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If you're going to try that, I also suggest switching the order of the two entrances and see if you can still pass the level. If that works then you have a viable way to eliminate the "backroute" of using the cheap trick you had in your walkthrough.
I was going to play around with the level, but I need to strongly resist the urge to download and run custlemm while at work...... ;P
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haha...i reaslise upter i posted that last night that there was a text file that came with your level pak...
I was surprised that your intended solution was....pretty stupid...maybe to get rid of the cheap solution you should have the exit around 10 seconds further away than it is....(or maybe less) i finished with 11 seconds
My Solution:
Make the first lemming a basher, bash almost from a lemmings width from the wall when he has finished bashing he should be almost in the middle of the vertical pipe.
Build one step where you are, you should knock your head then turn back, just as the knocks his head build again. Do this until there are 4 steps, he should now walk towards the exit.
The next lemming should do the same. build up like this until he gets stuck in the pipe. (you could probably try to do this with the first lemming only, but i used 2 lemmings because when they passed eachother it made it hard to select the right lemming).
Once you're in the pipe make that lemming a climber then the next lemming to pass the group of stairs should bash through them and make a clear path to the exit. Around here you should set the RR to 99.
when you are climbing through the pipe. you should bash to the right when you are almost at the pipe T-intersection...(thats the hard part). This should make a hole between the bottom of the upper horizontal pipe and about 4 pixels from the top of this pipe.
Build up until you are high enough to bash more through the pipe, this should free the top lemmings, this is hard. They should all go to the exit...try not to get any lemmings turning to the left as you cant turn them around.
Enjoy.
and are we doing another pak after this?
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I was surprised that your intended solution was....pretty stupid...maybe to get rid of the cheap solution you should have the exit around 10 seconds further away than it is....(or maybe less) i finished with 11 seconds
No, the best way to get rid of the solution is just to switch the order of the entrances. That way you start off with a lemming on top which would make it impossible to get 100% using the cheap trick. And time isn't an issue since you have enough left and you can adjust the release rate to avoid having to wait for the first lemming out of the bottom entrance.
I just independently solved the level (ie. I solved it before your post arrived). The basic concept is of course the same, but I did end up only 9 seconds left, perhaps partly because I wasn't as aggressive in raising the release rate. I also sent two lemmings up the column rather than just one, which probably makes things far trickier than necessary (doh!), though it still worked out fine. I was going to e-mail Insane Steve some screenshots, but since you pretty much spelled out a complete solution I wouldn't need to do that anymore.
You might be able to avoid the problem of lemmings going left if, when you are at the very top and about to break open the way for the upper lemmings, you bash left rather than right.
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well going right, i think is easier, since thats the direction you gotta go anyway. You just need to make sure there aren't lemmings between the pipe and the top-right pipe, either that or you have to make sure you build the stairs in such a way that the have to hit the left side of the bashed hole in the pipe so they have to turn right...
The point is this solution is way better than steve's real solution :P
so...uh...lets do another pak ... ...
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Can I recommend Garjen00.dat? I'd like to review the first level if that's OK.
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go for it i'll do 2
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen00/1.png)
Garjen00 - Level 1: Look out below!
50 Lems
100% to save
RR: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 20 climbers, 5 builders, 1 miner, 1 digger
This was the first level I ever played on CustLemm. It had me completely stumped then, it had me stumped a couple months ago, but the solution came to me today out of nowhere (I had thought of suggesting this as a pack, but I wouldn't want to suggest it without beating the first level! So I went and did that first).
Good: Very clever use of the tools and the placement of the three trapdoors. Small, compact, and still challenging (I wonder if others found it easy though). You have to think to use a tool in a place where it is not completely obvious.
Bad: Some of the tools (3 of the builders) must very obviously be used in certain places. That's about it :P
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i just played look out below!
that's a really really good level...and i remember thinking that a few years ago when i first played it...the solution definitly isn't any where close to what i first thought
anyway
moving on...
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen00/2.png)
Garjen00 - level 2 - "Look Familiar? LOOK AGAIN!"
5 - Block
Lemmings - 50
Save - 90%
RR - 99
Time - 1 Minute
Bad: well pretty much most of it. All it is is a clicking test, not really that difficult and nowhere near as good as the level before
Good: Nice level design ;P, at least makes you think about the route you take and makes you take the path with the least turns
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen00/3.png)
Garjen00 - Level 3: Lemming Cathodes
50 Lems
100% to save
RR: 90
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 10 diggers
First CustLemm level I beat :P
Good: Really cool level design. Nice use of the crystal set. Plus it's small :)
Bad: The solution is straightforward and ignores much of the level.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen00/4.png)
Garjen00 -- Level 4: Mountain Rescue
Skills: 20 of everything
Good: You have to save 100%, so a bit of thought on how to trap the pack is required.
Bad: It's really, really straightforward, and isn't that much of a puzzle.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen00/5.png)
Garjen00 - Level 5: Breakout!
80 Lems
97% to save
RR: 99
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 80 climbers, 2 bombers, 2 bashers, 2 miners
Good: Clever use of the mesh terrain and interesting to get both groups of lemmings down/up to the exit. Interesting level design.
Bad: Tedious climber clicking...
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uh...don't wait for me I wanna do level 7...and besides I haven't got around to working out how to do level 6!
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OK. I'll cover 6. It's basically an extension of 5 anyway.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen00/6.png)
Garjen00 - Level 6: Terrible Twos
&#A0; &#A0;
80 Lems &#A0;
97% to save &#A0;
RR: 2 &#A0;
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 builders, 2 bashers, 2 miners
Good: Good theme with the twos.
Bad: Once you solve Breakout!, this level is a joke... it's essentially the same solution using slightly different tools. It's also arguably easier to execute than Breakout!
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ok
sorry about the delay...I'm not busy, just lazy
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen00/7.png)
Garjen00 - Level 6: "Sharing a Climber?"
1 - Climbers
1 - Bombers
1 - Blocker
1 - Builder
1 - Basher
1 - Miner
1 - Digger
Terrain set - 2
Lemmings - 80
Save - 100%
RR - 80
Time - 2 Minute
Good: It looks and sounds as if the level is really tricky. Nice even use of the skill, you need to use almost all of the skills just once
Bad: The level isn't really as challenging as it looks, requires some good timing and precision (well I guess that's not really that bad, but oh well). But the thing I don't understand is the name :???:
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By the way, does anyone know the intended solution to "Sharing a climber?" The solution I used didn't require there to be two trapdoors... They all wind up in the same place anyway. Maybe that is just to confuse you?
Now on to one of my favorite levels from this pack &#A0;:D
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen00/8.png)
Garjen00 - Level 8: Death Trap
&#A0;
60 Lems &#A0;
90% to save &#A0;
RR: 5 &#A0;
Time: 5 minutes &#A0;
Skills: 5 climbers, 5 floaters, 5 bombers, 5 blockers
Good: A level without any of the common staple skills (builder, basher, etc.) that actually makes you think (even when you know where the traps are)! It's also a fun level to explore with such limited options. Seems like the kind of level that slowly brings parts of the solution to your attention the more you play it. This was one trap level that I actually liked, and that's rare.
Bad: In the end, the solution almost seems obvious. I guess this level could be seen as easy or difficult depending on how you approach it. Also, the "10 Tons" traps are kind of just floating in mid-air, which looks a little odd...
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Also, the "10 Tons" traps are kind of just floating in mid-air, which looks a little odd...
Actually, I thought that's exactly how they're supposed to look, with the weight just floating in mid-air. Look at Mayhem 30 from the original Lemmings for example.
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Yes, you're right, I guess I was just thinking of how the trap is used in Taxing 2.
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I don't know why the 10 tons traps always seem to float in mid air.
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Who's going to review Level 9: "Floater's Round"? It's a good little level.
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sorry I've been a bit busy/lazy...I'll do it possibly tomorrow or tonight...:)
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When that pack has finished being reviewed you can also review my level pack JM04.dat
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That should be interesting!
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By the way, does anyone know the intended solution to "Sharing a climber?" The solution I used didn't require there to be two trapdoors... They all wind up in the same place anyway. Maybe that is just to confuse you?
I don't know what the intended solution is, but perhaps the most ironic thing about "Sharing a climber?" is that you don't actually need to use the climber at all!
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Hehe. Wow, didn't even notice a solution without the climber before, but it's actually pretty obvious! That level is riddled with backroutes for sure :P
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HAHA I just realised all you need is a builder and a basher :-/
oh and sorry for the delay...I am being held up by what can only be described as shear lazyness
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen00/9.png)
Garjen00 - Level 8: "Floater's Round"
5 - Climbers
5 - Floaters
5 - Bombers
5 - Blockers
5 - Builders
5 - Bashers
Terrain set - 1
Lemmings - 20
Save - 100%
RR - 5
Time - 2 Minutes
Good: Symmetrical. I guess like the last level I reviewed this can be done in lots of different ways, and since there are 5 of most of the skills you could get inventive and create some interesting solutions. You could possibly send 2 scouts each one going a different direction, that would probably push this level up to maybe at least a tricky. You could even go as far as getting 4 scouts: one to make a path building up to the exit, one building down from the top fire pattern, and the other two doing the exact same thing from the other side. :D
Bad: Easy.
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HAHA I just realised all you need is a builder and a basher :-/
???
Huh? How? Is the fall height not high enough to kill the lemmings or something?
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Let them all go into the bottom compartment...build up to the top of the one way obstacle and then get a lemming to bash through the thin column...there's a possibility that might not work, but to me it looks like it should work (i haven't tried, just looked at the picture...
oh...and i'm talking about sharing a climber, right...not floater's round....so yeah
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You can get a builder to go up that high on "Sharing a climber?" It looks impossible... Maybe I'll try it...
About "Floater's Round", what do you mean by this:
one building down from the top fire pattern,
I guess I didn't find the level quite as easy as you did (Of course it is not very hard), but I played it a while ago... I don't see more than one real possible solution with one possible variant (which is nearly identical)... The builders are the limiting factor in this level of course... other tools are plentiful...
Well, moving on anyway (But I am still curious about your alternate solutions to "Floater's Round"):
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen00/10.png)
Garjen00 - Level 10: Printing Press
&#A0; &#A0;
80 Lems &#A0;
98% to save &#A0;
RR: 1
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 20 of each
Good: Nice level design. You have to think a little how to manage the four different groups. A good level to be at the last level in the pack.
Bad: Long and tedious, without any real puzzle to it.
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haha don't worry, if I'm saying something completely wrong don't mind me!
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OK. I just tried it, and it is only possible to get to the top of the one-way wall. There are more than 6 metal pixels above this (maybe 9 or so, didn't really count). So that way is impossible. But there are still other ways more obvious than the intended solution (or so I assume).
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The level is not impossible to beat.But I found most of Garjen's levels too difficult to beat.
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um so we gunna start the next set?
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I don't know what the next set can be.Well if you can't think of what the next set can be you can also review my level pack JM04.dat
I'm sure you have played on the levels in that pack.
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The level is not impossible to beat.But I found most of Garjen's levels too difficult to beat.
Of course it is not impossible... We were just discussing a possible alternate solution which is impossible.
If we are doing JM04.dat, I'll need to go make pictures (won't take long). Or does anyone have another pack in mind? I don't mind either way.
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I'm happy to do JM's pack. It seems easy enough!
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I don't really mind...but I don't think I actually have his levelpaks
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http://www.geocities.com/jmjm0052005/JMpaks.zip
Those are my level packs.
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OK. I took the screenshots of JM04.dat and played through the levels. We'll be able to review this pack very quickly...
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm04/1.png)
JM04 - Level 1: Deadfall
60 Lems
83% to save
RR: 15
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 5 climb, 5 float, 5 bomb, 5 block, 20 build, 10 mine
Good: Several ways to solve it.
Bad: Easy! Also, the center is asymmetrical, and some of the sides are uneven, which makes it look shoddy.
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Also, the center is asymmetrical, and some of the sides are uneven, which makes it look shoddy.
Well, part of that is Custlemm's fault (oir rather, limitation). Since interactive objects' x-coordinates must be multiples of 8, and since the entrance and exit objects have close but not identical widths, I don't think there's any way to have the exit be above the entrance and centered at the same time.
The rest looks alright from the screenshot, though it's hard to tell.
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I have another thing for good: The level design is actually pretty cool looking.
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Guest, I was referring to the terrain (not the objects). Both of the side beams have different heights, and the platform that the exit lies on extends several pixels to the left more than the right. Also, the bottom bar on the right side isn't lined up so as to form a corner... it just looks off. Little things, I know, but they are still noticeable (maybe not in the screenshot).
I know about the (unfortunate) object placement limitation &#A0;:-(
(It actually makes it easy to place objects at times, though.)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm04/2.png)
JM04 Level 2 - Spiders
Save: 40/80
Time: 50 minutes
RR: 50
Skills: 10 of all
Good: Fairly good design with the series of webs.
Bad: Easy even compared to the previous one. Can save 100% with just three bashers. Come on! This is slightly ridiculous.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm04/3.png)
JM04 - Level 3: Walking along Uranus
&#A0; &#A0;
80 Lems &#A0;
70% to save &#A0;
RR: 25
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 4 bomb, 3 block, 15 build, 1 basher, 2 miners
Good: Hm...
Bad: The terrain is stolen from Hubbart3.dat Level 9: (http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/9.png)
(If you got permission from Hubert and Bart I apologize.) But please, do make sure you ask the original authors and/or give credit if you choose to alter a level. This level is easy and pointless. You only need a couple builders to get over the traps... Plus, it's not as cool as the original "Storm and thunder"... I mean, those storm clouds make the level!
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The level Spiders has got a good design of webs but it's too easy.
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How do you save 100% with three bashers? I can't see where that would work...
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The lemmings walk through the forward-leaning slopes.
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Don't mind me I'm not reviewing any of his levels...I looked through them all and noticed a few of them, just like Hubart's, are ripped off from my levels...The one I am really pissed off about is JM09 - 6 Turn Around...my original level of that is what I think is one of my favourite levels I did...and that really annoys me.
and just incase you were wondering the following are also ripped off from me
JM01 - 1 Stalemate
JM05 - 7 Behing Black Eyes
not that I like either of my original levels of those...
actually I guess in someway its kinda flattering...sort of...
remember it's easy to make 15 level paks when you make levels like he does!
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I looked through the rest of his packs, and it seems he also stole several levels from Insane Steve (end of JM14.dat, and some of JM15.dat).
The rest of his levels are largely changes to original Lemmings and ONML levels, stripped of any puzzle at all. He managed to turn "Five Alive" into "Only floaters can survive this"... Embarrassing!
Shall we boycott the rest of this pack? Trust me, we are not missing much if we do. The whole pack probably took 20 minutes to beat, and that's just because some levels take a few minutes to beat...
I'd rather move on to another pack than get stuck on this one due to lack of interest.
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That seems slightly harsh given that he's sorta a newcomer to level making.
However, that said, we can always argue that since most of his levels are copied off of other people's anyway, by reviewing other people's levels we kinda covered JM's too. :devil: Hey, 'tis what you get when you choose to imitate rather than create. ;P
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Anyone mind doing one of my later ones? Maybe conway07.dat or later?
Failing that, one of Jaunjo's (Lemming 20's) packs. They're really tough!
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I think yours should wait, since we already reviewed one of your packs earlier.
Other than that I don't care, although I must say that level from Hubbart3.dat Shvegait presented kinda caught my eyes, so it might be fun to nominate that set for review just to see what else is in it.
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Hubert and Bart's levels have some rather interesting and good-looking designs. They are not very difficult, but a few of them use some cool tricks, and most of them are fun to just look at. Hubbart3 is probably their easiest pack, though. I'd definitely recommend Hubbart2 and Hubbart4, but we can do whatever one anyone wants :)
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Ah. See, when I read "Stole Insane Steve's levels", I thought the template for the levels was copied and the solutions changed a bit to make the level easier. I load the packs, though, and discover that the levels have REPLICA SOLUTIONS to mine, with only aesthetic changes. While the replica of "The Razor's Edge" had its solution changed somewhat [I.E., easied up completely], the replica of "It's Hammer Time!" is an EXACT ripoff of my level (With one minor alternate solution possible), and the replica of "The Nifty Fifty" has ONLY the same solution I intended in my original pack!
JM, just a point for you. If you want to make a level with the level template of the author, ask the author first, but when he gives permission, make the level different, solution-wise. It's not ok, in any plane, to take an author's level, re-make it in a different style, and pass off the original puzzle concept as your own. If you need help with level designing, a guide or something, ask me, and I can help you.
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yep...well I'm pretty much all for doing another set...
and I would like permission or at the very least...some notice that you're stealing my levels...
anyway that being side...I am fine with doing a Hubbart level pak...I haven't actually played through them yet...but the designs for most of them look brilliant!...
and maybe after his we can do a set of mine...but not TWPAK0.dat since that's my training levels.
If you want do TWPAK11.dat its my only set which is somewhat alright...I hate most of my levels. Looking back on them, a lot of them are complete crud...
I should make a pak full of my best levels :)
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How long do you spend making each level?
I think that if you put more time into making levels, ultimately you'll have better levels. Then again I have nothing I really need to do right now so I can (almost) devote as much time as I want to anything.
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well usually a while...some more than others
but some of my levels (if i say so myself, which i do) are brilliant...but about half are pretty awful (they were good about 2 years ago)
its really annoying when i do devote a lot of time (such as the last 5 levels i just made) i end up accidentally deleting them...(such as yesterday) x_x...gah I made a level called Uluru (it even looked better than the real uluru...as was a decent timing style level...and the new level i was in the middle of making is gone...blah
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I think that if you put more time into making levels, ultimately you'll have better levels.
While this is partly true, you could spend days making a level and it still not be as good as you would've hoped.
As with tumble_weed I think most of my levels are pretty bad. I recon only about 35% of my levels are actually worth anything.
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I am now remaking most of my levels and it does not seem to be going bad.When I finish remaking them and release them tell me if there is anything wrong with them then I can sort it out.
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OK. I'm going to go ahead and start on Hubbart4.dat.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/1.png)
Hubbart4 - Level 1: The beacon
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 15
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 builder, 1 miner, 1 digger
Good: Interesting design. A good short level to start off the pack.
Bad: Has a pretty bad backroute... (I'm not sure if I have an older version of pack or not, though. I remember Hubert saying they fixed a backroute in this level.)
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Not a bad level at all.
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It depends on if I have an idea for the level. If I have a clear mental image of how I want the level to look, I can make one in 10 minutes. On average, after tweaking, and route-adjusting, it usually takes between 30-90 minutes for the original design and another 30-60 minutes to tweak the level, remove backroutes, etc.
I'll review Hubbart 4.2 soon as I can find and load it.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/2.png)
Hubbart4, level 2 - Just Dig!
Save: 80/80
Time: 1 minute
RR: 1
Skills:
Bombers: 80
Blockers: 1
Builders: 1
Bashers: 1
Miners: 2
Good: Nice small design with a nice puzzle.
Bad: Maybe a little too short.
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Bad: Maybe a little too short.
LOL, I guess you don't like 1-minute levels too much huh? ;P
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Actually I love them, I just couldn't think of anything bad about the level!
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/3.png)
Hubbart4 - Level 3: Oh no! mor(s)e lemmings
80 Lems
97% to save
RR: 30
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climb, 1 float, 1 bomb, 2 block, 13 build, 1 bash, 2 dig
Good: Interesting design, funny title.
Bad: Much of the level is left un-utilized (or at least, there is no motivation to use the lower parts of the level). Boring solution.
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In case anyone's wondering, the Morse code bit simply says "LEMMINGS" :P
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Oh. That's clever. :D I hadn't even thought to look it up.
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I didn't need to. :D
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well everyone knows of SOS ...---... so S is ... and the 3rd and 4th letters are the same...so its easy to figure out...and besides...what else would it be...
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SOS is easy to figure out.It stands for "save our souls" if i'm right.
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SOS originally didn't have an intended meaning. It's easy to transmit and recognize, so it was a good distress signal. You could take it to mean "Save our ship" or a bunch of other things.
Check here: http://www.answers.com/sos&r=67
Who's going to review "Remains of the roman empire"?
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yep, they just chose the letters SOS because it was easier...
anyway enough about SOS
I guess I'll do the next one I haven't done a level in a while...and I haven't done one from this pack at all
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Who is reviewing the 4th level of this pack?
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Me! I have uni work...but you know Lemmings > Uni
anyway, I have no idea whether I used a backroute in this level or not. My solution was:
Digging at the top of the pillar, floating down then building, letting another lemming go to the bottom of the pillar and start building, then turning the digger to a blocker. When one of the bottom lemmings reaches the middle of the arch they bash through, the two lemmings then take turns in building to the exit. Then get one of the trapped lemmings to dig down and release the blocker. then mine (will go backwards and die) then all the lemmings should be free. Although Raising the RR earlier and letting more lemmings accumulate should allow for the digger to dig to the bottom then to mine at the very bottom and then climb back to the top, and allow you to get 100%...but I haven't tried.
But to me this whole solution seems to be a backroute, as its possible (i think) to get 100%, and the "broken" parts on the left look like they are there for a purpose as well as the slightly raised steel area on the left, and the level can be completed 1 minute early.
anyway...
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/4.png)
Hubbart4 - Level 3: "Remains of the Roman Empire"
1 - Climbers
1 - Floaters
0 - Bombers
1 - Blockers
5 - Builders
1 - Bashers
1 - Miner
2 - Digger
Terrain set - 2
Lemmings - 80
Save - 98%
RR - 30
Time - 3 Minutes
Good: Nice use of 2 directions, looks as though it could be possible on both sides (maybe it is, if i have a back route, and there is a way to get to the left exit)
Bad: Nice design, but could have used the column set.
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Bad: Nice design, but could have used the column set.
I think we're getting to the point where, despite the original premise of "CustLemm Level List Game", it's becoming ridiculous to find something bad to say when there isn't any. O_o
At the very least, this example of forced-badness is particularly silly. Does the column set have the "rainbow" arch? No. Does the column set have those irregular "hills" that forms much of the bottom of the level? No, at least not that I remember. In short, this level would be unable to look even remotely the same as the way it is, if the column set was used.
Come to think of it, your "Good" actually would fit the forced-"Bad" better, given the thing about possible backroute. ;)
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well actually they could have used some of the limestone pieces to get a similar effect and it would have been great to see an arch built from pieces from the columns set...
I'm sorry if my critiquing was not up to standard...
anyway I agree, it is hard...
but lets see if i can give it another shot...
Good:
*Has a complex solution, which is not overtly obvious at the start.
*There is a definite attention to detail by the use of holes in the pillars, as well as an attempt to vary the texture of the land.
*Good use of layering (such as the exit appears to be buried in rubble as well as pillars appearing in front and behind the land to create a kind of three dimensional feel.)
*Nice use of timing in the level, however the timing is not excessively precise, which makes for a good level. It is usually a bad thing when a level has to be TOO precise, there usually should be some room for error in the level.
*Good concept for a level and good use of a theme.
*The player has to save all but one, which in my opinion is much harder (and makes for a better level than saving 100%) since the player is made to think about how and why a lemming must be killed, as opposed to a 100% level where the player automatically assumes that all lemmings must be saved.
*Good use of terrain and skills, which prompts the user to explore the level as there are enough skills to allow the player to explore all parts of the level, although both sides of the level initially appear to be possible which encourages the player to explore (instead of having one side of the level blatantly incorrect). Although the left side doesn't actually have a purpose it does make an interesting puzzle, where the player has to decide the possibility of each side being correct.
Bad:
*The gap on the far right seems suspicious and is an easy tip off that you need to build over that gap since it doesn't remain constant with the other gaps (being filled with sludge), a possible solution is removing all sludge, as it doesn't really fit well with the theme of the level. The parts that contain sludge above land could maybe be made into holes.
*Could have used the column set, this statement still stands, as it would have fitted the concept of a Roman styled level far better.
*Having a climber is not necessary; however, it is possible to achieve 100% with just slightly more effort (and the climber). This should be avoided as it is pointless make it possible to complete the level with 100% when it is only required to have 98%, an alternative to this would be to remove the climber. Having it possible to only complete with 98% would also remove possible back routes where a lemming can die somewhere else in the level.
*An extra minute is given to complete the level, the time limit should be changed to 2 minutes, and this will make the level appear more concise as well as adding the "thrill" of timing.
there.
Happy?
a 477 word "analysis on this level detailing both good and bad points.
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<laugh> you didn't have to really rewrite the whole thing. I was just picking your example (because it's there) to make a general point about the CustLemm Level List Game. ;P
well actually they could have used some of the limestone pieces to get a similar effect and it would have been great to see an arch built from pieces from the columns set...
Well yes, if Hubbart has as much time on his hands as you do in rewriting the review, I'm sure he'd be happy to painstakingly take a whole bunch of limestone pieces which consists only of straight edges, put them together to form a crude arch, and then use yet even more black pieces to round it out so it looks curved instead. O_o
(Or do you have a better way to do it? Any technique to quickly create reasonable-looking curved pieces out of straight pieces would be really cool. Seriously.)
*Could have used the column set, this statement still stands, as it would have fitted the concept of a Roman styled level far better.
Actually, since I haven't really taken much history, is Roman architecture really so prominent with the use of columns? I thought the Greeks also uses columns quite a bit.
And I have to point out that in the original Lemmings, the columns set was used for such decidedly non-Roman levels like "Curse of the Pharoahs". :-/ Anyhow......
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I completely disagree with one point; it's always good to make it possible to achieve more than the minimum, if this can be done without spoiling the level. (Just look at how much fun guest has been having saving the most possible on the original levels!)
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The level design isn't that bad.
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Where do you put the images to appear here? I don't have any online space to stock my future images for this game.
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Who's reviewing the rest of this level pack?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/5.png)
Hubbart4, level 5 - The Billboard
Save: 80/80
Time: 2 minutes
RR: 1
Skills:
Builders: 7
Bashers: 1
Diggers: 3
Good: Can be tricky trying to contain the crowd while letting one lemming build to the exit.
Bad: Most of the terrain is wasted.
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IMHO the Hubbart levels have beautiful designs, even if they are somewhat simple to solve...
I really wish I could design like that...
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Me too! So far I'm only able to attempt designing a level around certain tricks I have in mind. That generally doesn't lend itself to such artistic levels as Hubbart's. I'm pretty impressed with these levels.
I guess it's the same deal with the "special graphics" levels people occasionally design in Cheapo. Lots of people tend to whine that it's hard to make a special graphics level that's also a good puzzle. With that in mind, Hubbart here clearly decides to balance the trade-offs favoring the artistic side.
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Yeah I agree that's the first thing I noticed when I saw the Hubbart levels...they are really really designed well. A lot are better than the original lemmings levels...
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I really loved to see that thundercloud level :P
That's a very good use of the crystal set:the water,the traps and the color :P
And it seems I can't figure out that Billboard level...I can get the lemmings stuck inside the L and E but then?I'dd need a climber :)
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The thundercloud level is ace.
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Heh, I'm like the "anti-Hubbart" then: I strive to add a high puzzle element in my levels, choosing to sacrifice the interesting, beautiful designs that Hubbart's levels contain.
Then again, I am a logical thinker, and a terrible artist. ;P
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Insane Steve none of your levels are terrible at all. I think they are pretty good. It is mostly my levels that are terrible but if I have problems with a level my friend GM would help me sort it out.
Then again I just love your levels I can't wait until you resume work on Pack 10.
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Heh, I'm like the "anti-Hubbart" then: I strive to add a high puzzle element in my levels, choosing to sacrifice the interesting, beautiful designs that Hubbart's levels contain.
I don't think your level are ugly or anything. They might not be as spectacular as Hubbart's in the visuals, but they certainly don't look like a highly contrived pile of terrain thrown together just to get a puzzle/trick to work either. I'd say your levels are pretty normal in terms of visuals.
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I think your levels are variable; some of them I might call ugly, but then there are others (the one with one of each skill and two exits, I can't remember the name) that are very attractive to look at; and of course many that fall in between.
As for me, when I started making Cheapo levels I didn't have much idea about how to make them attractive, but now that I've got my new styles, I'm taking the opportunity to remake many of my old levels, and I'm taking much greater care over the visuals of my new ones. Obviously I can't judge how successful this will be, but I note that guest has already commented on the visual appeal of "Zorn's Lemming", the one new level I've shown him. :D
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well my levels must be great (imitation in the greatest form of flattery)...
uh actually most of my levels, after playing over them again recently, I've realised most of them are awful...I'll probably release a "best of" pack with all the slightly less crap levels.
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Tumble Weed you have a lot of great levels.
I love the level No Use for a Terrain and I love A Rip-Off of a level.
Hide and Seek is a pretty challenging level. I also love We all Fall Up and Someone spiked the Lemmings.
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Well, I like Insane Steve's levels; for me they're the best of all.
I don't really care about design, I like the straight terrain and love the neat puzzles and the trickiness in the levels.
Since they are usually small they are quite nice to play, having a first look at them most of them look interesting at once, and usually they are also interesting to play.
Of course there are also some not so good levels, but those appear not so often at all.
Since I don't care about design so much, Hubbart's levels should be not really special to me, but some of the are quite impressing though.
(Oops...seems that it's getting a little off topic...)
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You realize that level 4 was skipped? Either that or the level number for the last one was just wrong.
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"Remains of the roman empire" is Level 4, TW just put level 3 by mistake.
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Thanks for that information Shvegait. Anyway are you reviewing the next level of Hubbart4.dat ?
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I'll review it in a little bit, it's my favorite from the pack :)
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My favourite level from the pack is The Beacon.
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The Beacon is,if I recall,only mining down twice and you're finished...
Who's reviewing the next level?
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Yes, "The beacon" is a very simple level...
OK, moving on:
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/6.png)
Hubbart4 - Level 6: The pulley
&#A0; &#A0;
80 Lems &#A0;
98% to save &#A0;
RR: 10
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 climb, 1 bomb, 1 build, 1 bash
Good: Uses a very cool little trick. Nice design, as usual.
Bad: Oh, so sad. I just found that it has a really obvious backroute. At least, I think/hope it's a backroute... Hmm, actually, now I wonder how other people solved this (and the sequel)...
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Where do you put the images to appear here? I don't have any online space to stock my future images for this game.
I'm feeling ignored... :'(
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I'm feeling ignored... :'(
Oops, sorry that happens I guess.
Well, if you right-click on any pictures in Internet Explorer and then go to menu item "properties", you can find amongst other info the URL to the image.
The screenshots Shvegait posted had URLs that look like this:
http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/6.png
Alternatively, I think if you click "quote" as if to reply to a post, you can find the "img" tag corresponding to the screenshot and get its URL that way too.
You'll have to ask Shvegait about the jx3.net thing.
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Oh, sorry, DragonsLover, I didn't even see that post &#A0;X_X
I have a bunch of free server space on a friend's friend's server. I don't know the server owner, but I have connections &#A0;;)
A few months ago I went through a bunch of packs and took screenshots of a ton of levels and uploaded them. You can see all of the screenshots at http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/. If we decide to review a pack that doesn't have screenshots, I can go through and take the screenshots in just a few minutes, so you never have to worry about that.
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Where do all of you get the levels?
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Most of them can be found here:
http://www.garjen.co.uk/Lemmings.php#Packs
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I downloaded all the levels from there. I love them all.
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Who's reviewing Level 7?
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Oh, sorry, DragonsLover, I didn't even see that post &#A0;X_X
I have a bunch of free server space on a friend's friend's server. I don't know the server owner, but I have connections &#A0;;)
A few months ago I went through a bunch of packs and took screenshots of a ton of levels and uploaded them. You can see all of the screenshots at http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/. If we decide to review a pack that doesn't have screenshots, I can go through and take the screenshots in just a few minutes, so you never have to worry about that.
That's ok and that's perfect too. I don't have enough time to take screenshots from all my levels, I'm kinda busy these days, studying at UbiSoft.
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I managed to play some custom packs in the original lemmings by renaming them to LEVEL00x.dat (Where x is a number from 0-9 depending on which difficulty you want the pack to appear in.) This way I can play custom levels with the DOS music playing in the background. Anyhow, what I'm getting at, is the fact that I am able to review Level 7...
Hubbart4 - Level 7: Another Beacon
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/7.png)
Number of Lemmings 80
100% To Be saved
Release rate 95
Time 1 Minute
Skills: 1 Floater
1 Blocker
5 Builders
2 Miners
1 Digger
Good: The block behind the exit is very sneaky. You need 100% too.
Bad: Not much of a puzzle, unneccesary builders, and not much different from the first level.
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Both levels are brilliant.
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I managed to play some custom packs in the original lemmings by renaming them to LEVEL00x.dat (Where x is a number from 0-9 depending on which difficulty you want the pack to appear in.) This way I can play custom levels with the DOS music playing in the background. Anyhow, what I'm getting at, is the fact that I am able to review Level 7...
Be careful. The max safe fall distance is 3 pixels less in original Lemmings than in CustLemm, and most levels are designed for CustLemm. It doesn't matter in this case, but it could in some others.
You can't review a level without the DOS music playing in the background? :P
If that really is the issue, why can't you just play the Lemmings music in the background with another program?
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You can't review a level without the DOS music playing in the background? :P
Of course not, The music makes a game B)
I could play CustLemm, but no music makes Isu a sad boy ;P
I thought I already mentioned that I didn't like custlemm for that exact reason in another topic (http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?action=display;board=level_id;num=1119907802;start=90#93)
I don't like using any music players (I usually use WMP) because when Custlemm is running, Windows Media player goes inactive. For example - I'm in the middle of a long level, the music cuts (having reached the end), and I need to activate the window (Windows Media Player) to get the music to repeat, too much hassle when I can just rename to LEVEL002.DAT instead of levelpak.dat
I used burn a CD and play it on my walkman, but I still need to worry about changing the track (it's on repeat 1, so I gotta change it when I play a different level)
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I want music in Custlemm.
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Who's gonna review Level 8?
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It would be possible (I'm not saying it would be easy...) to do some hacking and find the part of the original lemmings game that plays music and implant it into custlemm.
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That's strange. I usually don't want to hear the Lemmings music when I play, and I just have my music collection on in the background in WMP. Even when playing Cheapo, I usually don't bother with the music.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/8.png)
Hubbart 4, level 8 - Not as Easy as it Looks
Save: 80/80
Time: 2 minutes
RR: 1
Skills:
Builders: 2
Bashers: 5
Good: A nice and short level with some interesting terrain.
Bad: Far too easy for this late in the pack.
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[addition to the prevoius post: I will begin my attempt after lunch.]
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I meant addition to the previous previous post.
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As there is no music in Custlemm I would put some music on from my CD player or I would put music on from Windows Media Player.
You are right Conway.Level 8 of Hubbart4.dat is far too easy.
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It would be possible (I'm not saying it would be easy...) to do some hacking and find the part of the original lemmings game that plays music and implant it into custlemm.
Hey, stop impersonating me!!!!!!! You b%#@$#! ;P
Hehe, sorry, I guess I will register soon but definitely not right now.
From now on, the regular guest at guestlevels@yahoo.com will now take on names such as "the guest" and the like.
Actually, the discerning reader should be able to tell who's who, because my responses are generally far wordier than the JM-like responses of this "fake guest" here
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You know there is more than 1 guest online and they probably don't realise you are the real guest.
Also the person or people using the name guest leave fake e-mail addresses.
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You don't get it. I obvious know the risk, as you've stated above, of having multiple guests around.
The problem is, the "fake guest" I'm pointing to is too similar to me for my comfort. His style of fake e-mail addresses for example is too similar to mine and can easily fool others. Worse, and this is why I actually fumed about it, he talked about hacking CustLemm. Since I've hacked Lemmings before for other people, this just looks way too much like me saying I'm going to look into hacking custlemm for music. Which I'm not doing at the moment.
Basically, "fake guest" is stepping too close to my turf for my comfort. I'm sure it's probably not deliberate, but I do need to make a clear point who's who.
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I wasn't trying to impersonate you, we are just similar. So, to distinguish between us I will call myself "fake guest" from now on. As you said my posts tend to be shorter, this is because I am a slow typist.
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You want music???
Read this topic (http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=tech_id;action=display;num=1100442619;start=15)
If you put a CD into your drive, the tracks mentioned inside the topic will play during the levels.
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Thanks Dragonslover.
So it looks like we have nearly finished reviewing Hubbart4.dat
Just one more level.
It's such a brilliant level pack. The author has made some very nice levels especially Storm and Thunder.
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Im a guest and I call myself MC Marshy on these forums from now on. Anyway let's get back onto topic of Custlemm levels. Hubbart4.dat is a pretty good levelpak. I wonder who will review the 9th level.
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Hmm. I feel stupid for not solving level 8 as easily as everyone seems to have. It actually took me a good number of attempts (not too many) and then I ran out of time a couple times... Maybe there's a simpler way to beat it? I wonder what your solutions are (esp. Conway).
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/9.png)
Hubbart4 - Level 9: The pulley (2)
&#A0; &#A0;
80 Lems &#A0;
98% to save &#A0;
RR: 90
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 climb, 1 bomb, 2 block, 2 build, 1 bash
Good: Again, uses a cool trick.
Bad: The solution seems too similar to that of the first level... Of course, I don't know what's intended... I had 2 tools and a minute left after beating this...
I have to wonder what the real solution is. The small terrain change doesn't affect my solution from the first "The pulley", but that could just mean that what I thought was a backroute for the first level was actually intended.
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The first level certainly uses the same solution. The tricks of this level are cool. Both levels are ace. The last level of the pack has a pretty cool level name.
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I wasn't trying to impersonate you, we are just similar. So, to distinguish between us I will call myself "fake guest" from now on. As you said my posts tend to be shorter, this is because I am a slow typist.
Hi, I'm so sorry for being such a jerk over this. :sorry:
I know it's not intentional [and I wouldn't have even been suspicious if Tumbleweed (or is it Isu) hadn't been prodding me lately about registering]. My main purpose really was to make sure no one was confused who was who.
You really don't need to call yourself fake guest if you don't want. As long as no one takes on "The Guest" we'd be fine. And actually, I probably would slip back to just "guest" on posts where it doesn't really matter who's who.
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It's okay.
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I don't understand why regulars post as a guest instead of registering anyway!
Strange, I never did figure out The Pully 2. Here's my solution to Not as Easy as it Looks (since Shvegait wanted to know).
Lem 1 build against a slope to turn back, bash through the two walls to the left, buld over the gap and bash through to the exit. Make the lemming behind him bash through the twig in the air to delay the rest. At some point 99 the release rate.
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Oh. I can't believe I didn't think of that. I managed to trap them in a more awkward manner which made it more difficult than your way. (I wonder if it was intended though... I'm thinking it might be, based on the title.)
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I didn't complete all the levels on that pack. They are very well designed. The 9th level was hard. I loved the levels on Hubbart3.dat especially The Equation.
So who is ready to review Level 10?
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I still haven't passed it! :-[
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Neither Have I. I'll try and get passed it now.
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Who managed to get passed Level 10?
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I can't get passed level 9 either so I can't play level 10 either :(
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Now I &#A0;finally made level 9 and all I can say about level 10 is that it looks completely impossible to me...I tried several tactics but everything failed :(
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Level 10 is far from impossible, in fact, I think I'll review it now...
Hubbart4 - Level 10: A new roof for the entrance
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart4/10.png)
Number of Lemmings 80
100% To Be saved
Release rate 60
Time 1 Minute
Skills: 1 Builder
1 Basher
4 Diggers
Good: Uses a very sneaky trick (Unless my solution is a backroute, I had a digger spare).
Bad: Not as "Decorative" as the previous levels.
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Isu, I think the spare digger is just a crutch to make it possibly easier but is not really needed.
The reason I suggested Hubbart4 was because these last couple of levels can actually be difficult and use really cool tricks. Their designs aren't the only good things about their levels :)
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So,how did you manage it?
I would love my first level pack to be reviewed now :)
The first level in my pack was also the first I ever made so it isn't decorative at all :)
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Leviathan, you have a new PM :)
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The trick for level 10 requires some luck and is difficult to pull off. I've only managed to do it once. I had a digger spare so I probably did it the same way as Isu.
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This is regular guest speaking to differentiate from the more recent guest.
Just want to say I haven't got the chance to download the level yet. It didn't look too hard to me, but I'm sure the devil's in the execution.
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The solution requires some good timing at the beginning and some luck at the end. The execution is similar in difficulty to "There's madness in the method". But for some reason level 4 was harder for me. :P
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If I recall I had another kind of solution to Madness in the method...but mostly I ended up with my miner splatting.
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Huh? Once you know the trick to "A new roof for the entrance", it should take you a couple of tries at most... Don't even try to compare it to "There's madness in the method", although the trick is quite cool and I'll admit I use a variation of it in one of my levels (new pack that's not done yet). But really it's not that hard to execute...
So which pack are we reviewing next?
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I would love mine to be reviewed :)
I believe someone could make the screenshots and upload them easily.
My levelpack is here:http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php
The pack is called "levipack1"
EDIT: in order to let 2 of my levels run well,you need to copy the extended graphic sets from the lemmings folder into your custlem folder (vgaspec0 trough vgaspec3)
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Hmmm...my solution is probably a lot harder than it needs to be. Here's how I didi it:Let the first lemming walk a ways then make him dig. Make the second one dig as close to the other hole as possible without falling in. When the third lemming comes out set the release rate to 99. The third lemming should turn back, make him dig over the exit. When the diggers are low enough so that the lemmings won't die, make one of the lemmings bash under the second digger. Then make the first digger build.
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Oh, interesting. Here is my solution (the trick that I had been referring to should become obvious):
Let the first lemming walk a ways then make him dig. Make the second lemming fall in the hole and dig also, make the third lemming hit the right side of the diggers' tunnel and face the exit, then dig in between the first two lemmings, freeing at least one (so there are only 2 diggers digging). Raise the release rate to 99. After waiting a bit to get a safe fall height, make the digger facing the exit a basher. Stop the other digger by making him a builder (this can be done at any time.)
Leviathan, I've just downloaded your pack and will take screenshots right away. One note, they are being filed under "levpak1" instead of "levipak1", because that is the name of the .dat file. If this is unacceptable let me know. "levpak1" might sound generic, as in "level pack 1", whereas "levipak1" couldn't be construed that way... but it's your choice, just let me know!
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Aaargh! I knew I did it the hard way!
I didn't know diggers could free each other. That suggests that the "we all fall down" levels could be done easily with 2 diggers (maybe). The first one digs and the second one digs near the right edge of the hole, freeing the first digger (might not work).
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That won't work.
The reason you can free diggers with diggers is because you can eliminate the ground completely under the digger (This is especially easy when you have two diggers and a third that frees one of the others. You need to be pixel-perfect for just one digger to free another). In your "We all fall down" example, however, there must be at least one pixel left, so the digger will not be freed. (This is a different story in Cheapo, which requires at least 2 pixels for a digger to continue digging).
Edit: I've uploaded the screenshots of Leviathan's levels.
Some of his levels are quite challenging (Some are annoying X_X)! Conway knows how much I hate 80 floater levels (in which you need to use all 80, and have a very limited time to do so...), so i really shouldn't review the first level... I'll leave that to someone else :)
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I never knew that about the diggers too,that's why it seemed imposible for me :)
I know about the first level...it's the first one I ever made :)
Note that the rest of the levels isn't in the same order than the order I made them,the second one I made was level 10 :)
If you can,you may call it Levipak1 as lev or levi stands for "leviathan" :)
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I understand that... I was merely stating that the file itself is called "Levpak.dat", and the naming convention I've been using refers to the .dat file.
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The trick for level 10 requires some luck and is difficult to pull off. I've only managed to do it once. I had a digger spare so I probably did it the same way as Isu.
No, you didn't; I used the same solution as Shvegait.
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When is the next levelpak being reviewed? May I ask kindly
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As soon as someone decides to review the first level of Leviathan's pack... Like I said before, I won't review it because I won't say anything good about it, but someone else might :)
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Like I said before, I won't review it because I won't say anything good about it, but someone else might :)
Such encouraging words for new levelmakers...... ;P
I see that brutal honesty is your personal philosophy. :-/
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Leviathan is a new level maker and somebody must be review his levels. I think they are brilliant.
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Such encouraging words for new levelmakers...... :P
It was just really reminiscent of Conway's "Lemmings of the niagra falls"... Why make someone click 80 floaters?? In Lemmings even... I don't care about Cheapo, where you can make non-floaters who are in the same space as floaters, floaters, and where you can give a tool while paused, but this is just ridiculous and un-fun...
I have some good things to say about some of the other levels. That's why I said I don't want to review *this* first one :P
I see that brutal honesty is your personal philosophy. &#A0;:-/
I never really thought about it, but I guess it is. :P
Fluffing up your words solves nothing, and it can create a confusing picture. We're reviewing the levels here, not patting each other on the back, right? Besides, there are a lot of people out there who need a reality check (I'm not talking about any forum-goers!)
But I always try to be constructive if possible... I didn't say his levels are horrible (They are actually very challenging), just that clicking 80 floaters is not fun &#A0;X_X
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I have some good things to say about some of the other levels. That's why I said I don't want to review *this* first one :P
Oh ok. You see, I misread your comments to mean you don't have anything good to say about the entire set! ;P
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As an aside......
I don't care about Cheapo, where you can make non-floaters who are in the same space as floaters, floaters, and where you can give a tool while paused, but this is just ridiculous and un-fun...
I won't dispute the "ridiculous and un-fun" part (which really applies just as well to Cheapo, I'd say), but since you can always assign floaters as soon as they come out of the entrance, and since even at the highest RR the lemmings don't overlap when falling, I don't think it'd be any harder in CustLemm vs. in Cheapo.
Also, technically it's not true that you can't assign floater to a non-floater overlapping another floater in CustLemm. In fact, it has nothing to do with floaters. In Lemmings, the cursor selection always favor the lemming that came out the latest, if everyone under the cursor is walking.
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What was the order that you (leviathan) made the levels?
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Oh, I didn't mean to say that it's *difficult* in CustLemm relative to Cheapo. I only meant that it is less annoying in Cheapo. As much as I try to make every lemming a floater at 99 RR, I almost always manage to miss one &#A0;X_X
Oh ok. &#A0;You see, I misread your comments to mean you don't have anything good to say about the entire set! :P
I just re-read what I wrote, and it kind of did sound like that, although the "it" should refer to "first level", not "Leviathan's pack". So to prevent any confusion, I just meant I didn't want to review the first level! (Well, and maybe a couple others &#A0;;), but the maximum any one person can review is 5 anyway, with normal rules)
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Oh, I didn't mean to say that it's *difficult* in CustLemm relative to Cheapo. I only meant that it is less annoying in Cheapo. As much as I try to make every lemming a floater at 99 RR, I almost always manage to miss one X_X
Odd; when I'm playing the two floater-crazy levels (12 Tricky and its repeat 21 Mayhem) I always begin by increasing the RR to 99 to make things easier for myself :P
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Odd; when I'm playing the two floater-crazy levels (12 Tricky and its repeat 21 Mayhem) I always begin by increasing the RR to 99 to make things easier for myself
Really? I just use a couple of builders to make the drop non-fatal so that I only need a few of the floaters...
Edit: Err, for Tricky 12 anyway, and someone's LemEdit version of the level. For Mayhem 21 I'm pretty sure I did raise the release rate (but not to 99).
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Ok... Since no one has reviewed this level yet and since I basically already reviewed it, I decided to just go ahead and move this along.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levpak1/1.png)
Levpak1 - Level 1: Fall before the building
&#A0; &#A0;
80 Lems &#A0;
100% to save &#A0;
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 80 floaters, 3 builders
Good: You can get away with setting the RR to 90 and still pass the level.
Bad: No puzzle. Having to make 80 lemmings floaters (for no interesting purpose) is annoying. Looks really empty and bland.
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Who is going to review level 2?
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Why don't you? Everyone can participate.
I haven't managed to pass it yet though (keep running out of time of course). I hope I'm missing something obvious &#A0;X_X (Edit: Got it. Just need to be perfect...)
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What was the order that you (leviathan) made the levels?
1) Fall before the building (actually my first test)
2) Escape the wolfs claw
3) Judgment day
4) Very menacing!!
5) Bad arrow
6) Need any help from above?
7) Hurry up! Go down!!
8 ) We may not fall down
9) Greenpiece
10) Dolly dimple,not that simple
And yes,if I would design level 1 now I would have &#A0;added some spider's webs or something :)
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Why don't you? Everyone can participate.
I haven't managed to pass it yet though (keep running out of time of course). I hope I'm missing something obvious X_X (Edit: Got it. Just need to be perfect...)
Ok, it was actually a pretty good level. It took me a few tries to pass it too.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levpak1/2.png)
Levpak1 - Level 2: Need any help from above ?
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: one of each
Good: Simple looking level, but it requires you to find as many ways as possible to speed things up.
Bad: The general idea of the solution is obvious.
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The level looks good and levels where you have to find many ways as possible to complete them are pretty ace.
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I'm wondering what kind solution you came up with for level 2...right before I released it I changed the level because there was a backroute that spoiled the entire idea,so I'm wondering if there's still a backroute :)
With the trick I had in mind,I have about 15 seconds left when the last lem enters the exit.
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Level 2 isn't really a bad level but it is challenging. Level 3 is easy. I really say it is a brilliant pack. Who could review Level 3?
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Leviathan, yes, there is still a backroute. You can pass it with 1 second left without using any crazy tricks. I had thought even that was impossible for a while, but if you use every possible trick to get them all there as fast as possible, you can do it with 1 second to spare. If you have 15 seconds left normally, it should be really easy for you to fix this.
JM: You can review Level 3, can you not? You said it was easy, so you must have passed it. Go ahead and review it.
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Yeah I could review level 3. Here it goes.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levpak1/3.png)
Levpak1 - Level 3: Bad Arrow!
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 of each
Good: Nice level design,good number of skills to complete the level
Bad: Level not hard enough
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The correct syntax for an image is:
[img]address of the image[/imgg]
The second one only has one 'g', I just changed it so it wouldn't show up blank.
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Sorry, I didn't see that you changed it.
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I was having trouble uploading the image. It took me 17 minutes to figure out how to upload it properly. It's ok. Thanks for trying to help me anyway.
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Leviathan, yes, there is still a backroute. You can pass it with 1 second left without using any crazy tricks. I had thought even that was impossible for a while, but if you use every possible trick to get them all there as fast as possible, you can do it with 1 second to spare. If you have 15 seconds left normally, it should be really easy for you to fix this.
JM: You can review Level 3, can you not? You said it was easy, so you must have passed it. Go ahead and review it.
Then it's a challenge on my own level,on how to pass my level without using my intended trick :)
I'll make the walkway 2 bricks longer in my next pack :)
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It can be done with 20 seconds left using the miner glitch found by the guest. In this case, you can make the first lemming on the top mine, and then turn him into a blocker during his second swing. This will cause him to fall down even though the ground above is not broken. I am pretty sure this is a backroute.
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It can be done with 20 seconds left using the miner glitch found by the guest. In this case, you can make the first lemming on the top mine, and then turn him into a blocker during his second swing. This will cause him to fall down even though the ground above is not broken. I am pretty sure this is a backroute.
That is the intended solution to my level and it should be the only way to pass the level :)
That's why I choose the title "need any help from above" :)
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Need any help from above was a good Title for the level. The levels in your pack are very challenging.
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I still haven't figured out on how you finish the level without the miner glitch :)
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Okay. Who wants to review Level 4?
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Okay. Who wants to review Level 4?
I hope someone who loves using bombers will review my Greenpiece level :)
The general idea was to make sure the top parts of the threes were used instead of the lower parts of the level,but it was still way too simple so I came up with the idea of bombing the forrest :)
Level 4 is my Menacing remake...I think you can review it :)
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I managed Greenpiece using ALL 90 builders (saved about 30%). Of course it can be done with less, but it was my first try and it took a little to figure out exactly how high the steel ground went up and such. I'll review it when we get there.
It's the only LemEdit level I've played that actually needs more than 10 minutes (I used about 15 or so).
I haven't passed the Menacing remake though, and I don't really feel like it :P so somebody else ought to review it.
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I managed Greenpiece using ALL 90 builders (saved about 30%). Of course it can be done with less, but it was my first try and it took a little to figure out exactly how high the steel ground went up and such. I'll review it when we get there.
It's the only LemEdit level I've played that actually needs more than 10 minutes (I used about 15 or so).
I haven't passed the Menacing remake though, and I don't really feel like it :P so somebody else ought to review it.
You have enough patience for Greenpiece but not the Menacing remake?
I still haven't figured out on how you finish the level without the miner glitch :)
Set the release rate to 99. Make the last lemming on the top mine (second to last might work, but I haven't tried). Right before he hits the ground, make him a floater. Make him build as close as possible to the barrel (but also far enough away so the other lemmings can get over). When he is right next to the thing in the middle, make him bash.
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You have enough patience for Greenpiece but not the Menacing remake?
I usually give each level at least one try. If I didn't pass Greenpiece on my first, I wouldn't have played through it again, I'm sure!
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How about I review the Menacing Remake but somebody else can review the next level.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levpak1/4.png)
Levpak1 - Level 4: VERY MENACING!!!!!!
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 50
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,19 builders,2 bashers and 1 digger
Good: Nicely designed,Traps put in good places,good use of the crystal graphics
Bad: Not enough bashers
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Bad: Not enough bashers
Surely the level is designed to be challenging. You're supposed to think about how to do the level without many bashers...
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levpak1/5.png)
Levpak1 - Level 5: Dolly Dimple,not that simple
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 99
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 3 builders, 2 diggers
Good: Forces a specific solution of Dolly Dimple using the minimum amount of tools necessary.
Bad: Well, I don't know. It's not *that* difficult. :P
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I don't know whats bad about Level 5 either. But its got a good number of skills to be used to complete the level.
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good use of the crystal graphics
A rather ironic comment, considering that there's hardly a trace of any crystal graphics in the level. ;) Unless I miss a hidden trap or something. (And the entrance and exit don't really count, since it could've just as well came from the "Columns" set.)
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If you open the Menacing remake in lemedit, you will see that the entrance, exit, and trap are all from the crystal graphics set.
I know about that, I was just striked by how little evidence of the crystal set can actually be seen in the screenshot. So it was kinda funny that JM mentioned it, that's all. ;)
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I played on the level and when I bashed one of the obstacles I spotted a demoleculariser and it started killing my lemmings. The Menacing level would look good if it used the objects from the hell set. The objects in the Menacing remake obviously came from the crystal set.
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If you open the Menacing remake in lemedit, you will see that the entrance, exit, and trap are all from the crystal graphics set.
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I noticed that.
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Has anyone done level 6? It is possibly a little too annoying for me...I'll give it a shot.
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I was forced to use crystal set because the demolecularizer was the best looking trap of all to put there,I guess that's what JM meant by good use of the crystal graphics :)
If I recall correctly,only putting objects works with the extended graphics sets...I remember trying to put a block of steel somewhere and it didn't show up in the level when playing it...
As for there are too less bashers in the menacing remake...the second basher just must be placed perfect in order to bash trough the snake...and for the bones beyond,you don't need a basher :)
I'm already halfway trough making a second pack...and I'll make a "need any help from above part 2" to remove the backroute mentioned above :)
One of my finished levels is one I'm very proud of...it's called "Ventral Maintenance" and it uses the crystal set...which is one of my favourite sets :)
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The Crystal set is one of my favourite sets too. I'll see if I can pass level 6 on your first pack.
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I will review Level 6.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levpak1/6.png)
Levipak1 - Level 6: We may not fall down
Number of Lemmings: 80
100% to be saved
RR: 70
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 40 Builders,1 Basher
Good: Challenging and Tricky,Good Time Limit to complete level
Bad: The RR could be set higher
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Who's doing the next level then?
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OK, I'll do this one, but someone else will have to cover "Greenpiece".
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levpak1/7.png)
Levpak1 - Level 7: Judgment day
80 Lems
77% to save
RR: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 30 builders
Good: Levels where you try to save as many lemmings from traps are always fun to play. Perfect save target... I had saved 76% several times before passing this.
Bad: Well, again, I don't know. Terrain is very simple, I guess... But I don't think you always need the frivolous stuff. Oh, I know, I would've centered the level to the right a little more :P
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I wonder, is there some system for passing Judgment Day? I must have tried it over 30 times and the most I can save is about two less than I need. It's a very frustrating level!
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I don't play CustLemm, but I'd guess the best procedure is to make a bridge wall under the trapdoor with lems 2, 3 and 4, and use most of the remaining builds as delays while the first possible lemming each time builds past the traps.
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Finally passed it! And Greenpiece . . .
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levpak1/8.png)
Levpak1.dat, level 8 - Greenpiece
Save: 10/80
Time: 30 minutes
RR: 1
Skills:
Bombers: 80
Blockers: 80
Builders: 90
Good: Very long and with plenty of skills.
Bad: Repetetive and dull after a while.
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Long levels are good especially if they have plenty of skills. Short levels are boring. Greenpiece is a brilliant level and the graphics suit it.
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Short levels are boring.
Only if they are very easy. 1-3 minute levels can be very challenging when made well. A good short level is my favorite kind. 4-6 minute levels can be made fun and unrepetative. 7+ minute levels usually annoy me because they usually inolve a lot of repetition. Long levels can be good if they are not repetative, but that doesn't seem to happen much.
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That's right. If they are challenging then they usually aren't boring. If a level is more than 7 minutes long it gets annoying. That is usually because they involve a lot of work. Easy levels are usually boring but Hard levels are fun. Levels like Just Dig,Easy When you Know How etc on Fun on the original Lemmings are boring but the levels further on get challenging and they are more fun that just plain boring.
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Two more levels to go on this set, correct?
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Yep, two more levels. Just one after this :)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levpak1/9.png)
Levpak1 - Level 9: Hurry up! Go down!!
80 Lems
97% to save
RR: 99
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 80 bombers, 2 blockers, 8 builders, 1 basher
Good: The steep staircase is pretty cool. There is sort of an optical illusion that, if you are fooled by, the level seems impossible.
Bad: Seemed a bit too easy for this late in the set. The blockers and generous time limit make the title seem odd.
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That's correct. One level left.
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I have about 3 or 4 levels left to do...depending on how many remakes I'm going to make.
The coolest new level I made is a remake on "Cascade" called "water cascade"...but I need to tweak things to make it harder :)
I mostly like levels where you have to save one group of lemmings with the help of another group...but in packs I like a mixture of different kinds of levels.
The thing I find myself most inventive in,is building a level out of the name of a title...I'm working on a level called "highway to hell",so it has to involve lemmings going down and using the hell set :)
I've made a level that looks oh so simple but in fact involves a few tricks to complete...
My new levels so far:
-Ventral maintenance (Complete)
-Splatter bonus (Complete)
-Yeah right...you wish! (Complete)
-Water cascade (still some tweaks needed)
-Want the elevator? (still some tweaks needed)
-highway to hell (unfinished)
-Need more help from above (finished I guess,eleminating the backroute from my first pack)
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Yeah,for the design of the level I had i mind it wasn't possible to make it a tight fit with the time...
About the steep slope,it's the steepest I could get,one more pixel and the lems would return :)
I'll see if I can make a "part two" without blockers requiring 100% :)
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I'm working on a level called "highway to hell",so it has to involve lemmings going up and using the hell set :)
Going up? Considering the destination your highway leads to, are you sure you haven't gotten things, um, the other way around? ;P
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How many levels have you got left to make in Pack 2?
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Going up? &#A0;Considering the destination your highway leads to, are you sure you haven't gotten things, um, the other way around? &#A0;;P
That's exactly what I meant...I guess seeing lemmings go up and down makes me confused :P
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The level names sound good. Level 9 isn't really a bad level in your first pack. Well Level 10 is the only level that needs reviewing and the pack is done.
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Has someone found the solution to level 10 yet?
I mean without using LemEdit to "investigate" the level :)
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I haven't managed to pass Level 10 yet.
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Has someone found the solution to level 10 yet?
I mean without using LemEdit to "investigate" the level :)
I tried it a few times and then it became rather obvious. I checked in lemedit to make sure...I was right. I still haven't done it yet though.
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I'll review the level then.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levpak1/10.png)
Levpak1 - Level 10: Escape from the Wolf's Claw
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 77
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 20 Builders,2 Bashers,1 Digger
Good: Well designed level,Good level name and hard
Bad: I can't think of something bad about this level
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Bad: I can't think of something bad about this level
It does use a rather cheap trick. Other than that it's a good level.
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If we want to review the next level pack we could review TWPAK11.dat,Isteve07.dat or Isteve09.dat couldn't we? Or review oldbutgo.dat or 20041.dat?
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I'm not familiar with oldbutgo.dat and 20041.dat. Whose packs are they, and where can they be downloaded?
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I have both those packs. I think they were made by Lemeri. If you want them drop me an e-mail.
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I'dd like to have those packs and review one of those :)
I really love my discovery of this forum and LemEdit2 :)It makes a child's dream (10 years ago) of making own levels come true :P
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Shvegait I'll send you both the packs and you can give them to Leviathan :D
www.geocities.com/jmjm0052005/Custlemmpacks.zip
Basically they are in that link up there. That contains all the levelpaks I either downloaded or made.
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I suggest we review 20041.dat :)
I played the other pack mentioned and it's,well,way too easy and too long levels (no offense for the author,the levels look cool) :P
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Yeah I think we could review 20041.dat Where are the images for the levels?
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Geez, I just downloaded the pack. Give me a little bit of time to take the screenshots :)
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That's ok. I downloaded the pack ages ago. I think we could review 20041.dat . The creator of the pack made some nice remakes of the levels from the Original Lemmings.
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Ok.. I've taken screenshots of all the levels except level 8, which crashes DOSBox for me (rather than a freeze, which usually happens for me with broken levels). Does this level work for anyone else? If not, then we'd of course have to skip the review of that level.
One thing about this pack is that every level is a spin on an original Lemmings level, so if we choose to review it, then the comments should probably be based on how well the author used the existing terrain to make a new level, how interesting the modifications are, etc. since we can't comment on the original terrain design.
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Level 8 i think worked ok for me.
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I can't find the screenshots in the directory where they should be,but I'll mod my post with the screenshot as soon as they're available :)
20041.dat - Level1 - Just dig,bash,and bridge
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/20041/1.png)
Lems:2
To save:2
Time:2 mins
RR:1
Skills:12 builders,1digger and 2 bashers
Good: The steel areas makes it tricky to place the bashers right,also the builder needs a quick reaction time.
Bad: Way too easy,I could do the level in just one minute time with only 1 builder (and the 2 bashers and the digger)...it could have been made a bit trickier with more lemmings and a high release rate.
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Oops. I was stupid and didn't actually upload the screenshots :-[ They're there now though.
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I could do the level in just a minute aswell. How do you get the screenshots because I tried to get it for Level 8?
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In DOSBox, hitting Ctrl+F5 stores a .PNG screenshot in a directory called "capture" (inside your DOSBox directory) with the name of the application, followed by a number (i.e. custlemm_001.png).
If you're not running DOSBox, you may be able to get a screenshot with "Print Screen", pasting it into Paint or related program.
Since you can only get one screen at a time, you'll have to take several screenshots (perhaps around 7 for that level) and link them together where they overlap. I usually determine where to overlap screenshots based on where there are non-uniform (non-black) pixels at the very top or bottom of the screen, because it makes linking the screenshots accurately very easy.
One thing you will want to do is edit in Attributes the height of each screenshot, so that it is 160 pixels, instead of 200. This is how you can discard the tool, etc. information at the bottom of the screen. Widen the size of the picture as you link them, up to a maximum of 1584x160 (I believe Level 8 requires this maximum size). I usually start linking from right to left, because it works more naturally in Paint, but find whatever way you want to link them.
And of course, pause the game, so that your screenshots look correct together. I pause the game before the windows are opened and try to get it so that in levels with traps, they can be clearly seen, like the fire-shooting trap in the Hell graphics set and the ice-shooting one in the Snow set. The same goes for thin one-way walls, where the arrows sometimes do not appear at all.
Here's the next level:
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/20041/2.png)
20041 - Level 2: Have a rotten day
&#A0; &#A0;
80 Lems &#A0;
75% to save &#A0;
RR: 1
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 climb, 1 float, 3 block, 15 build, 3 bash, 1 dig
Good: Interesting reversal of entrance and exit, with of course some other modifications. It's possible (but perhaps too easy) to save 100%.
Bad: Seems easier than "Have a nice day!" The one-way walls really should be set to display on ground only. The one-way area on the steel block seems to serve no purpose.
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It is easier than Have a nice day. Would be better if it was harder.
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If you're not running DOSBox, you may be able to get a screenshot with "Print Screen", pasting it into Paint or related program.
That's unlikely to work. The PrintScreen only works with Windows app, not DOS apps. You can do it with DOSBox because of course DOSBox itself is a Windows app (which just happens to emulate DOS apps).
As an aside, you can use Alt+PrintScreen to just capture the current active window. That's how I generally made my screenshots for the Lemmings challenges.
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It would be time I reviewed Level 3.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/20041/3.png)
20041 - Steel Failures
Number of Lemmings 80
82% to save
RR: 1
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 27 Floaters,4 Blockers,14 Builders,2 Bashers,1 Digger
Good: Nice level design,Good amount of builders
Bad: 8 minutes? You can complete it less than that,Too many floaters
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I couldn't pass that level...always too less builders :(
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Who wants to review Level 4 then?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/20041/4.png)
20041 - Level 4: Tightrope Murder
5 Lems
20% to save
RR: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 4 bashers
Good: Uses the air bashing technique...
Bad: Way too simple. You have no choice *but* to air bash!
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20041 - Level 4: Tightrope Murder
Interesting title, makes me wonder if Lemeri originally intended to use the "Columns" set (which has the rope trap).
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The title of the level is interesting. Lemeri seemed to have made a nice pack. But you have no choice but to airbash on the level. I'll call one of my next levels No Choice but to Air-Bash. I'll take a shot at Level 5.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/20041/5.png)
20041 - Level 5: The roles Reversed
2 Lems
100% to save
RR: 99
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 2 Floaters, 40 Builders, 40 Diggers
Good: You have to dig the bars to get through them which is challenging
Bad: Not a lot of lemmings on level
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Interesting title, makes me wonder if Lemeri originally intended to use the "Columns" set (which has the rope trap).
Considering that every level in the pack is based on an original Lemmings level, it seems much more likely that he just took the level "Tightrope City" (Tricky 24), and added in the columns with the crushers, changing the word "City" to "Murder" (and, of course, he also added a triangle piece so you don't need to build up to the exit platform).
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/20041/6.png)
20041 - Level 6: Just three minutes
&#A0; &#A0;
80 Lems &#A0;
100% to save &#A0;
RR: 99
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 15 builders, 1 miner
Good: You sort of have to be a little careful about how high you build...
Bad: The title! It took me just over two minutes to complete... and it seems possible to complete with at least 1:01 remaining. Other than that, the level is pretty boring.
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The level certainly is boring and it takes less than 3 minutes to complete. The level would be better if it was called Just two minutes and the time limit to complete the level was 2 minutes. The level wasn't hard either I found it easy to complete. The first level and the second weren't hard. When I first played the 4th level of the pack I couldn't complete it but I managed in the end.
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Level 8 probably crashes because it has an object with the y coordinates below 0 (above the top of the screen). Custlemm and Lemmings doesn't seem to like that. If you find which object that is in LemEdit and move in down a little, it should work.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/20041/7.png)
20041.dat level 7 - And then there were four (Lems)
Save: 4/4
Time: 9 minutes
RR: 1
Skills:
Climbers: 4
Floaters: 4
Builders: 7
Bashers: 1
Good: A cool spin-off of one of my favourite original levels.
Bad: Easier that most in this set, and it's possible to reach all exits except the bottom-left. Also, 9 minutes is far too much time for any of the exits.
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If you find which object that is in LemEdit and move in down a little, it should work.
I'm fairly certain that it's the window in the center of the level. Let me go check.
Edit: Yep, that's what it was. I've uploaded a screenshot of the level (with the window moved down two pixels). If anyone wants an updated pack, I can put it up, or you could just fix the level yourself (doesn't take long).
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Some of the thigns people are listing as "bad" are very strange......
I love levels with only a few lemmings! And I love levels with multiple exits where you can reach any of them! (In both cases provided of course that this doesn't make the level much easier than intended.)
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Shvegait I sent you the updated pack didn't I?
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You did, but I forgot to make it my new levelpak.dat :-[
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20041.dat level 7 - And then there were four (Lems)
From the screenshot, I can tell the solution is:
- build right lem to ceiling and then over the left block.
- build left lem to the steel and back.
- build middle lems over the block on the left
- Make every lemming a climber so that they climb the steel to the right to exit easily.
This is assuming that two lemmings fall from the middle and yes, 9 minutes is way to long for this solution.
I've not played this level yet, so, it works in theory ;P.
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So level 8 seems to work now? I haven't played on it.
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I'll review Level 8 if nobody seems interested to ;P
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/20041/8.png)
20041 - Level 8:No rendezvous at the mountain
Lemmings: 80
75% to save
RR: 1
Time: 9 Minutes
Skills: 1 bomber,2 blockers,20 builders,2 bashers,5 diggers
Good: Terrain and Objects nicely placed,Good set of multiple entrances and lemmings get trapped in a jail coming out of one entrance
Bad: Level can be complete in less than 9 minutes and more bombers are needed
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This seems to be your hang-up, JM. You say you like levels to be difficult, but when someone makes them difficult you always want there to be more skills.... isn't it more challenging to have to work out how to make use of the ones you have?
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It is challenging to make use of the skills you have. I don't always want there to be more skills on levels. I liked the use of skills on Level 5 of this pack.
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I'm doing Level 9
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/20041/9.png)
20041 - The Cascade: Part II
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 1
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 10 floaters, 5 bombers, 10 builders, 1 basher,1 miner, 5 diggers
Good: Nice and hard
Bad: Time limit too long and one way block not used in level
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I still don't know the 100% solution for the original cascade.
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I don't know how to get 100% on the Original Cascade either. I've tried but I only manage to save 12% of the lemmings. I say this levelpak is a good remake of the levels from the Original Lemmings. Only 1 level left to review and the pack is done.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/20041/10.png)
20041.dat Level 10 - Spilled Pea Soup
Save: 75/80
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 1
Skills:
Bombers: 10
Blockers: 10
Builders: 30
Diggers: 21
Good: A nice take on a classic original level with a nice design.
Bad: Still has a ridiculous amount of straight building with no element of puzzle (except for the fall-directly-into-exit trick). Also, the exit doesn't seem to work so it is technically impossible.
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If we're not already decided on what to review next could we do one of my packs?
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Bad: <snip> and one way block not used in level
But the one-way block wasn't utilized in the original either.
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If we're not already decided on what to &#A0;review next could we do one of my packs?
Which of your packs would you prefer?
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Also, the exit doesn't seem to work so it is technically impossible.
I was going to ask about this. I even searched in LemEdit for a hidden exit, but nope. It definitely seems impossible; anyone know otherwise?
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Any of them. &#A0;I think...three. &#A0;Yeah, three's good, but ultimately the choice is up to you.
EDIT: Uh.....we need some screenshots of both of my new packs... X_X
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I forgot which menu it is called, but in LemEdit there's a place where you can set certain display-related options. So you can turn off the terrain and tell it to ignore the no-overdraw and/or draw-on-terrain-only flags. Then all objects in the level should show up.
If you can't find an exit object with a z-order of 15 or lower, then the level is impossible to solve.
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Yeah. What I meant was I viewed all the objects in the level, and there is no hidden exit. 8 are acid, 1 is the window, 1 is the only exit. I just didn't know if there was some trick/bug that let you get in the exit before dying in the acid. I guess not, but I didn't know.
Impossible levels are for suck &#A0;:-(
@Timballisto: OK, I'll set up screenshots in a little bit. Packs will be named timb03 and timb04, if that's OK.
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Sure. Thanks a lot!
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I just didn't know if there was some trick/bug that let you get in the exit before dying in the acid.
Oh I see. So it's not a z-order problem, it's the overlapping object problem.
When the trigger areas of two objects overlap, the one with the higher z-order takes effect in the overlapping region. So I guess here, the problem is that the water's trigger area is overuling part of or all of the exit's trigger area.
Interesting. Let me take a shot at this, the level might actually be solvable (or at least the exit can be made usable) without modification. Well, a slim maybe anyway.
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Ok, it looks like all of the exit's trigger area is covered up by the water's trigger area. So, in effect, there are no exit trigger areas in the level, hence the level is not solvable.
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Hmm, actually, I'm not 100% sure now.
It seems like, from the entrance area, you escape the wrath of water if the row of pixels of ground is at y=143. The exit's ground row is actually just one lower than that, at y=144. It seems that without the water, you can still exit with the ground row as high as y=140.
So it would seem that there are some places where the exit's trigger area are not overlapped by the water's.
This is actually confusing me a little now. I always thought trigger areas are aligned to multiples of 4 in their x, y, width and height. Now I'm not so sure.
Anyway, I'll try this level later again and see if it's possible to solve it as is.
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Interesting. Well, you know that the exit triggers span multiple y values, but it only matters if there's ground for the lemmings to land on. This is not true for water, where the lemmings will die regardless of surrounding terrain. So while the exit trigger's region may not be completely overlapped by the water, there's no ground for the lemmings to land on to make an exit, and they'll always hit the water first.
Timballisto: I've uploaded screenshots for your 3rd and 4th pack. One note: The method I normally use for piecing together screenshots does not work on Level 4 of your 4th pack (the really long line). Whenever there's no context and very little contrast in pixels either horizontally or vertically, it can take a really long time to get an accurate screenshot. On the other "line" levels, I've been lucky that they've been on something like the crystal set, where there's at least some variation in the pixels. The pipes make it a bit more annoying, although it should be possible, but it's late, and I'm tired &#A0;X_X
We're not reviewing that particular pack next anyway, so it doesn't really matter, but for the time being I just put up a screenshot of the level preview, which should give a basic idea of the level (although the picture is very very small.)
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Are we reviewing Timballisto's levels then?
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Anyway, I'll try this level later again and see if it's possible to solve it as is.
Level solved! Here we go:
http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/spilledpeasoup_a.png
http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/spilledpeasoup_b.png
This is a 77/80 solution. It should be possible to get 79/80 if you don't use bombers to free the 2 blockers I used. I'm less sure about the feasibility of 80/80, mainly because I think you'd run out of builders.
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How did you get those bridges like that???????
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I think Insane Steve was actually the first one who discovered the technique. Build 4 bricks, dig down 4 times, build 4 bricks, dig down 4 times, repeat.
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i think it might be digging down through the builders steps then building again...possibly
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This is a 77/80 solution. It should be possible to get 79/80 if you don't use bombers to free the 2 blockers I used. I'm less sure about the feasibility of 80/80, mainly because I think you'd run out of builders.
80/80 is definitely possible, just a bit hard to execute. The way I see would use all the builders, maybe.
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"Definitely possible" and "maybe" seems oxymoronic. :P Have you confirmed it (ie. actually done it) to work or not?
I haven't really done any sketches on it, so I guess as long as you have enough builders you're fine, and there are ways you can avoid using the blockers (I used them because it's the simplest thing to do). Though there's also the time limit to contend with. So I really can't tell whether it is possible without trying it out, but I wouldn't be surprised either if someone succeeds.
One thing to keep in mind is that the third lemming lost in my 77/80 is the digger that creates the opening directly above the exit on the long bridge. The digger has to dig a little to the right of it, which in turn causes him to miss the exit. The question then becomes how many builders you need to turn him back towards the exit. Hopefully not too many. Or maybe you find a way to keep the digger from missing the exit?
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Or maybe you find a way to keep the digger from missing the exit?
Hmm, I guess there's a way. Start doing that build+dig+repeat routine earlier and you automatically get an opening at the right location with the trailblazer instead of having to send a second lemming to do it. Ok, I guess 80/80 is possible.
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"maybe" was referring to whether or not all the builders would be used. Actually, after trying the level, there would probably be 4 or 5 left. I did start the build+dig+repeat so there would be an opening above the exit, but I messed up on the next one and the lemming fell.
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Yet again I'm proved wrong! Good job, Old Guest!
Shvegait, you can get a screenshot of a line level either by
1. Opening it at low resolution in WinLemm, maximized at a sufficiently high screen resolution, or
2. Inserting temporary intermediate pieces for perspective when piecing together the level from DOSBox screenshots, then removing them in Paint or another imaging program.
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I'm still a bit confused about that technique, but I'll try it.
Sometimes I get the feeling that anything is possible in lemmings!
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Sometimes I get the feeling that anything is possible in lemmings!
I get this feeling all the time... when ccexplore is around. :P
@Conway: I never even thought of editing the level to take a screenshot of it. Now, with LemEdit2, it won't even be a hassle. Thanks for the idea!
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I'm no good at taking screenshots :(
But I know how to complete the last level of 20041.dat It's not a bad level
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We're doing timb03 next, right? That pack has lots of good scenery, but that squigly thing in level 6 looks a lot like tapeworms, ugh.
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I think it is. You could ask Shvegait or Conway if you don't know what pack is being reviewed next.
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Well Timbalisto kindly requested one of his packs for review. I see no better choice. Everyone else seems happy with the idea. So yeah, let's go!
How's those screenshots coming, Shvegait?
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How's those screenshots coming, Shvegait?
They're already up and done. It's just timb04.dat Level 4 that I need to make better. (We're reviewing timb03.dat, so this doesn't really matter.)
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I'm happy with reviewing timb03.dat
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Well then as the lemmings say lets go!
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb03/1.png)
Timb03 - Level 1: The Secret of the Hidden Lake
4 Lems
75% to save
RR: 99
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 bomber, 4 builders, 1 digger
Good: Interesting maze design. Involves a neat little trick.
Bad: Annoying pixel precision! (If you don't build in just the right space, the lemming will get stuck in the wall. >:( ) A lot of the maze is unused, and it's just a lot of waiting.
(Note: I'm making the assumption I solved it the intended way. It seems the way things worked out that I did.)
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People should already know this, but since Tim doesn't use CustLemm to playtest (or for that matter, play) his levels, CustLem2 should be used instead for these levels. In most (if not all) cases it probably won't make a difference, but as we are reviewing the set, this is kind of important for an accurate review.
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I haven't got Custlemm2 but I love the design of the first level of timb03.dat
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It involves a "neat trick"?
What is it?
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Well I guess it's not really a "trick"... but the digger/bomber in the top half of the level.
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Well, the solution is this, so you can check shvegait:
When the last lemming in the pack of lower lemmings reaches the very edge of the start of his descent on the first stair case, make him build. This must be timed exactly on the last pixel you can build on on the first plane in which the lemming walks on. If you are too late, the lemming will walk down the stair case and you won't be able to win. If you are too early, the lemming will block himself out of the path forward or will get stuck in the ceiling. If you do the first part right, the lemming should begin walking up the staircase. After that, make the same lemming build so he ends up climbing the second set of upward steps. Now you must make the same lemming a bomber when he is about 5 or 4 pixels from the vertical drop ahead of him. When he drops down, you must make him dig. If he starts digging but is off center, you have lost as you will not be able to get the lemming that ended up in the pixel gap below the uppermost one through the blocked area. If the lemming you made a bomber was made a bomber at the right time and made to dig in the center of the vertical pixel gap, he should explode at a spot that will clear the way for the lower lemming to go on ahead. Now you should wait until the lemming gets to the lake and is on the right side of it facing left. Now make him build. It is crucial here that you make the first brick the lemming puts down out over the water as to get a head start, so make him build as close to the water as possible. Make him continue to build over the water. The builder should complete the bridge across the water just in time to save the two lemmings walking through the lower passage of the level. The builder should turn around eventually and go to the exit.
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Yep, that's exactly how I solved it.
The part of the level I was talking about should be obvious. :???:
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Actually, when does the 0 level get played?
I might be answering this a bit late, but Level009.dat #0 points to Mayhem 30.
I've just realised that in the LEVEL file (a subdirectory in WINLEMM), names it's levels in accordance to where they are in their corresponding Dos pack. You can then easily look at the level preview images to tell what that level is. Examples
LS0052.bmp = Level005.dat #2 = Triple Trouble
LS0077.bmp = Level007.dat #7 = Time to get up!
LS0011.bmp = Level001.dat #1 = Cascade
And as I've mentioned countless times before, The Oddtable.dat file in your Dos Lemmings folder contains the stats for the repeats. Now all we need is for someone to hack what levels are repeted. I could make a start on it, but I'm busy with Style Trial and the like.
Actually, this could all be old news to people like ccexplore and Mindless. Ah, well, I'm a little slow. :P
You can all get back to reviewing now ;P I might play a few in this pack, that first level looks goregous.
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Isu, you can also determine this by simply opening Level009.dat in LemEdit (And you'll see that #0 is indeed "Rendezous at the Mountain" ). :P
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Which level is that? I haven't gotten that far yet.
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Which level is that? I haven't gotten that far yet.
I might be answering this a bit late, but Level009.dat #0 points to Mayhem 30.
I wasn't saying Isu is wrong. In LemEdit you only see the name of the level, though, not its place in Lemmings, so I just said the name.
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Isu, you can also determine this by simply opening Level009.dat in LemEdit (And you'll see that #0 is indeed "Rendezous at the Mountain" ). :P
...Erm...oops, I kinda missed that method. :-[
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I knew that 0 in Level009.dat was Rendezvous at the Mountain
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb03/2.png)
Timb03 - Level 2: So who's on first?
30 Lems
100% to save
RR: 1
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 3 bashers, 5 diggers
Good: Uses a nice simple trick, and has nice scenery. The annoying digger is at the beginning.
Bad: Placing that digger can be annoying.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb03/3.png)
Timb03 - Level 3: THE DOMINATIVE IS THE INEVITABLE
80 Lems
93% to save
RR: 20
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 5 climb, 1 block, 7 build, 6 mine, 5 dig
Good: The terrain looks pretty cool. It's possible to save 100%.
Bad: The title appears to be intimidating, but the level is very easy! The correct route is blatantly obvious.
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Wow, the neat scenaries in Tim's levels really gives Hubbart's levels a run for the money! B)
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Tim's levels have neat scenaries and I love level 3 of timb03.dat He has made such good levels that are fun to play.
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Wow, the neat scenaries in Tim's levels really gives Hubbart's levels a run for the money! B)
Timballisto's scenery is excellent, I agree. However, the one thing that impresses me more about Hubert and Bart's levels is that you are involved in their scenery. Timballisto's scenery design is off to either side of the level (similar to the design of many of the original Lemmings levels), and you rarely interact much with it. But in all or almost all of Hubbart's levels, your lemmings walk through the scenery and interact with it. Having made that work without diminishing the challenge of the levels is what impresses me. (OK, I admit, many of their levels are fairly easy, but not all of them.)
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I hope people will say nice things about the scenery in my new levels when I release them too :D I've been trying very hard to do it well. I know that I have some levels (like Twenty Second Teaser) where the scenery is unused, but to get round that I sometimes do copies of the level that involve taking a different route.
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Are they for Custlemm?
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No. :P Sorry.
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I take they are for Cheapo then ;P
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Timballisto's levels have good design but my favourite pack is pack 2 because I love the level But it's down there. So who's up for reviewing the 4th level?
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I'll look at Level 4
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb03/4.png)
timb03 - Level 4: Right left ace spades & side ace
2 Lemmings
Save: 50%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 3 minutes
skills: 1 climber, 1 bomber, 6 builders, 1 basher
Good: Has good design,challenging,uses a small portion of actual terrain
Bad: Level can be annoying
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Why is using a small portion of actual terrain a good thing, JM? I thought that level was easy, actually... Oh. Timballisto, could you explain the title for that level (4)?
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb03/5.png)
Before I start the review/rant, I just wanted to ask Timballisto not to take any of this personally, because it isn't.
Timb03 - Level 5: The Selhajek Arbenition.
80 Lems
77% to save
RR: 1
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 4 climb, 4 bomb, 1 build, 1 mine
Good: Nothing.
Bad: Where to begin...
This level falls into a category that I don't have a name for yet, but here are the criteria the level must meet:
1) The solution must be extremely obvious. There is to be no flexibility as far as things that you can try to do.
2) The implementation of the solution must be annoying to pull off because of the precision needed.
3) The level must include unnecessary and/or unclear obstacles to achieving your goal. Examples include steel areas represented on normal terrain, non-steel areas represented on steel terrain, fake exits, hidden traps, fake traps, or requiring one lemming in a tight clump of lemmings to use a tool in a certain direction without giving a way to guarantee that all lemmings are facing the same way. Exception: The title or terrain or something about the level hints that something is not as you normally expect it, and this is at least somewhat clear.
4) The level must include repetition, and being imprecise once will require you to start over. Bonus, and a real teller: You must scream profanities at your monitor when this situation arises :)
Now, if a level has one of these, OK. I'd be hypocritical to say otherwise, as I break some of these myself (but only occasionally, I hope ;) ). Plus, there are some cool tricks that inevitably require precision. But when a level meets all four of these criteria, it is in my opinion a VERY BAD level.
This level meets all of these critera:
1) Your first move MUST use up the builder. You have ABSOLUTELY no other logical option other than making the very first lemming a builder to close off the right gap, then walk to the left, and fall to his death. Why even give the builder in the first place? Fill in the gap, cut out the builder, raise the save% required to 78% (this is how many I saved btw, so you'd be able to get 80% really), and call it a day. Then your only option is to climb and bomb. There is NOTHING else you can possibly do, especially as it is clear where you need to put the miner.
2) Timed bombers. Not a major offender in and of itself, but it doesn't help ;)
3) Steel areas over non-steel looking terrain. Of course, after my first try of the level failed, I just looked at the level in LemEdit to see where you decided to put the steel. Side note: this steel does not even add challenge to the level! You would still have to do #4 (below) if there were steel or not. Furthermore, even knowing where the steel is doesn't make the solution easier to execute.
4) 4 bombers, all timed. This level is not forgiving in the least.
If you think I'm singling you out, rest assured that I'm not. Conway's "Back and Forth" is a bigger offender of this list, and he's heard some of my rant before... But since these two levels pissed me off for whatever reason, I decided to see what they have in common, and came up with this list.
(continued on next post)
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(continued from previous post)
Other comments:
What the heck is an arbenition? If you have no definition for it, I'll try spreading it as some slang term, but always with profanities involved. (That !@#$%!@ arbenition!)
For "good", I was thinking about putting terrain design, but I'd argue that it's actually the worst terrain design in the set (your dirt and other terrains are much more interesting), and the interesting-looking parts of the level are not used at all.
I don't think it's even possible to keep the level running for 7 minutes (the time limit). It's nothing important of course, just seems odd.
By the way, maybe you didn't consider this, but it's possible to destroy some of the "steel" by bombing a faller (because the steel areas are not under the fallers, they are only on the walls). In practice, this actually slows you down, and I don't think you can save 77% using this method, so don't worry about it, but I thought I should point it out. For a little while I thought that was what you must have to do, but only because I didn't want to count pixels to make sure they added up to 63 or less for a safe fall (in Custlem2); it is close though...
Comments on Lemmings in general:
One reason that I believe Lemmings is such a superior puzzle game is that you can be shown every piece of information that you could possibly need (the level terrain, tools, etc.), and figure out the solution just from that. There is no discovery *necessary* in order to solve a level. Of course, you learn tricks and such as you play through levels, see if certain timings work out, and all that good stuff. But you can put all obfuscation that you need to hide your solution in the terrain itself. The best levels are always those that show you all the information, look like they must be impossible (or, in some cases, simple), and cause some puzzling looks as nothing seems to work. There is a consistency throughout Lemmings that the player starts to rely on, and when that is broken, it is a violation of what you thought you knew. OK, so there's steel there even though it looks like normal terrain. Now, do I want to keep playing the level and guessing to find out where all the steel is, and to exactly where it extends? No, I want to spend my time thinking about how to take the tools I have and combine them to form a solution. I don't want to be spending an hour trying to time bombers and trying to remember exactly where that steel area ends. I'd much rather need to use my brain to think about a problem than use it to focus on precision. And I don't think that's just me!
OK. I'm done now :)
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Why is using a small portion of actual terrain a good thing, JM? I thought that level was easy, actually...
On the flip side, why should using a larger portion of actual terrain necessarily be better? ;P
Cliche as it is, I'd say that it's not the size that matters. What a pain it would be if every level has to be "large", or if you have to leave the blank space blank on "small" levels! ;) (Especially since unlike Cheapo, in CustLemm the game does let you scroll to the "unused" portions of the level.)
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Well, I didn't mean to imply that it was a bad thing at all. It just seemed odd to mention as a good (or bad) thing, I guess. I don't know. You said yourself that size doesn't matter, so why mention it?
I was still in rant mode at that point so my tolerance for anything slightly strange was pretty low. :P
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What the heck is an arbenition?
All right, this part of your rant is getting a little, hmm, what's the word? Anyway, I can't tell you what it is either :D, but please be prepared to edit your post if Tim actually has something to say about the title. ;)
I didn't want to count pixels
<An aside to the general public unrelated to the level>: if you use Windows XP and DOSBox, after capturing screenshots from DOSBox, you can open it up in MS Paint and zoom in. Well, that's not much, but here's a nice feature, at least in the XP verion of Paint: if you have the status bar turned on (it's in the "View" menu), when you draw lines or rectangles, the right side of the status bar will tell you what the horizontal and vertical distances are as you're dragging the mouse with the left button down. A somewhat crude but effective form of sketching, in fact arguably better than Cheapo's since you can see exactly how many pixels without counting. You can also cut and paste build bricks, but that's for another day. I've done these sort of sketchings more than a few times, including for Wicked 6 and for Lemeri's "Spilled Pea Soup".
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Well, I didn't mean to imply that it was a bad thing at all. It just seemed odd to mention as a good (or bad) thing, I guess. I don't know. You said yourself that size doesn't matter, so why mention it?
I was just providing counterpoint for interest, and inserting a side comment about size in general.
For the most part, when you see " ;P"s in my post it means you don't have to take it too seriously. ;) (Or you could, whatever floats your boat. ;P)
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Incidentally, I must say, it's admirable how Shvegait is willing to spend so much time and words even when faced with a subpar level. Definitely a dedicated reviewer. I mean, if I were faced with a level that didn't really interest me much, I would probably just summarize and condense things down to something like "solution too straightforward, fake steel adds little value to the level, precision far too punishing" and move on to the next level (well, at least if the next one is better).
It's also funny that one inadvertent effect of Shvegait's lengthy comments is that, it actually made me spend time trying to make sure the only possible solution is really what the review presented. Sadly, Shvegait does seem to be correct here, sorry Tim. ;P
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Comments on Lemmings in general:
One reason that I believe Lemmings is such a superior puzzle game is that you can be shown every piece of information that you could possibly need (the level terrain, tools, etc.), and figure out the solution just from that. There is no discovery *necessary* in order to solve a level. Of course, you learn tricks and such as you play through levels, see if certain timings work out, and all that good stuff. But you can put all obfuscation that you need to hide your solution in the terrain itself. The best levels are always those that show you all the information, look like they must be impossible (or, in some cases, simple), and cause some puzzling looks as nothing seems to work. There is a consistency throughout Lemmings that the player starts to rely on, and when that is broken, it is a violation of what you thought you knew. OK, so there's steel there even though it looks like normal terrain. Now, do I want to keep playing the level and guessing to find out where all the steel is, and to exactly where it extends? No, I want to spend my time thinking about how to take the tools I have and combine them to form a solution. I don't want to be spending an hour trying to time bombers and trying to remember exactly where that steel area ends. I'd much rather need to use my brain to think about a problem than use it to focus on precision. And I don't think that's just me!
I do largely agree with this. However, if it comes to that, the designers of the original levels don't meet your very exacting standards; there's "Lost something?" and there are several levels that need bomber timing.
I think what's great about Lemmings is precisely the mixture of precision elements and brainwork. Can't get a lemming going the right direction to build the crowd out of a holding area? Work out a trick so you don't have to. Need some precisely timed bombers? Work out some landmarks, and try to calculate where you need to set them off. That's why I don't mind making bomber-timing and other "annoying" levels; but I try to mix them in with more puzzle-oriented levels, and of course many levels combine both elements.
However, the one thing I distinctly don't like is when a level is unfair. A hidden exit when there's no visible one is fair because you know the point of the level is to look for it. I think a couple of hidden traps, so long as you don't overdo them, should also count as fair, because the excitement of discovery and never being certain is one of the joys of the game. I don't like hidden steel or fake steel, because steel is always an area, and it can be really tedious if you have to work out the exact limits of the area. (Traps are technically also an area, I know, but one small enough to be thought of as a point; and also, you know the size of the area because it's the same for all traps of that type.) I think the opposite to this level -- diggable areas that look like steel -- is even less fair, because it's part of the set-up that you expect such areas to be steel, and you aren't even going to bother trying. It's like a chess-player looking for the best move; the brain edits out illegal moves so you don't even see them.
Incidentally, I'd also like to say that I loved the design of the level we're discussing; I can't see why you don't like it. You can say that it's all unused, but there has to be a balance -- some level ideas just don't require much space. I think it's better to leave decorative terrain unused in such cases than to lengthen the level for no other reason.
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O_O ...uh...I think my lemmings levels might raise an angry mob if everyone was Shvegait.
Selhajek Arbenition. &#A0;Yes, this was one thing you didn't like right? &#A0;Well, I'll tell you now it has no real meaning. &#A0;Those syllables put in that order just happened to sound appealing to me, and I used it as the level title. &#A0; It was inspired by recent history classes and the Seljuk Turks ("Selhajek") .
As for the steel areas, I forget why I didn't put in steel on top of it, but I doubt it was for the confusion of the player. &#A0;I think it was for reasons involving scenery. &#A0;Oh, speaking of which, there are levels in my 4th pack in which there are steel areas that are unmarkable. &#A0;Please read the readme for it. &#A0;I believe I said that earlier. &#A0;I'll tell you where "QUICK EVACUATION"'s steel area is right now. &#A0;It under the right wall. &#A0;If you've played the level you should know where this is.
The other thing is, about the set solution. &#A0;Yes I realize that there is only one way to solve the level. &#A0;Yes I realize that all the logic falls into place itself. &#A0;However, is it not one of the goals of making lemmings levels, to create a level without backroutes? &#A0;As ccexplore said before lots of lemmings levels are mostly precision based. &#A0;This was the case with this level. &#A0;For some reason I like precision levels.
I liked this level because of how you did the solution, not how you found out about it. &#A0;Oh, and the falling bomber thing gives reason for the gaps , and the gaps give reason for the builder. &#A0;Without gaps, the falling climber thing would work and then I would have a backroute. &#A0;Also, the gaps give incentive to build, as you stated earlier. &#A0;Because of this, the lemmings get those few extra pixels of height they need to get into the miner's tunnel.
If you don't like the level, that's fine. &#A0;I don't think I've ever seen someone go off on a lemmings level like that though. &#A0;O_O
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Timballisto I like your levels, they have good designs, they have good title names, they are challenging and they use some good tricks.
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O_O...uh...I think my lemmings levels might raise an angry mob if everyone was Shvegait.
No no, you aren't to take it personally. It's not your levels, it's this particular level.
Selhajek Arbenition. Yes, this was one thing you didn't like right? Well, I'll tell you now it has no real meaning. Those syllables put in that order just happened to sound appealing to me, and I used it as the level title. It was inspired by recent history classes and the Seljuk Turks ("Selhajek") .
Well, that was in the "Other comments" part. It was supposed to be separated from "Bad". I was just curious what it meant, since Google came up with 0 results :P
As for the steel areas, I forget why I didn't put in steel on top of it, but I doubt it was for the confusion of the player. I think it was for reasons involving scenery.
I'm not saying you had bad intentions, but you should at least consider the process in which players will think about your level.
The other thing is, about the set solution. Yes I realize that there is only one way to solve the level. Yes I realize that all the logic falls into place itself. However, is it not one of the goals of making lemmings levels, to create a level without backroutes?
The problem wasn't so much that there is a set solution. The problem is that the level is laid out in such a way that you can't even try any other method whatsoever. You must build, then you must climb (x4), then you must bomb (x3), then you must mine, then you must bomb. It is so plainly laid out that it is frustrating, because you must follow this rigid pattern that you can see by just playing the level once (assuming you know where the steel is).
As ccexplore said before lots of lemmings levels are mostly precision based. This was the case with this level. For some reason I like precision levels.
Well, I will just say that it's best to create a balance of puzzle and precision. That's just my opinion (and Ahribar's too it seems). I will say that one of the levels in my first pack was like this: extremely obvious solution, all precision. But I scrapped it as soon as I realized it became just a hoop to jump through.
Oh, and the falling bomber thing gives reason for the gaps , and the gaps give reason for the builder. Without gaps, the falling climber thing would work and then I would have a backroute.
Huh? I'm talking only about the gap to the right. And the falling climber backroute is VERY easy to fix. Just add steel areas over the black areas next to the terrain. The fallers will have steel under the feet and won't explode.
Also, the gaps give incentive to build, as you stated earlier. Because of this, the lemmings get those few extra pixels of height they need to get into the miner's tunnel.
Actually you only need a one-pixel height to be able to reach a miner's tunnel starting from the right-most area possible, so I don't think this is true. I wouldn't say you have an "incentive" to build. It's more like, you have NO CHOICE but to build with your first lemming.
Whenever I first look at a level that gives you a small amount of builders, I look for gaps that you must pass that give you no choice but to cross with a builder. Then subtract them from the amount you really have to work with. In this case it's 0, and in a lot of other cases it's like that too, but here it very clearly must be the first move with the first lemming.
If you don't like the level, that's fine. I don't think I've ever seen someone go off on a lemmings level like that though. O_O
Hehe. Well, one of the reasons was that I had to complete the level in order to review it, but the precision was pissing me off. :P So some of the rant may have been unfounded, but I don't think most of it was. I'm only trying to help. That's why we have this thread in the first place, right?
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I do largely agree with this. However, if it comes to that, the designers of the original levels don't meet your very exacting standards; there's "Lost something?" and there are several levels that need bomber timing.
Eek, I don't want to come off sounding like some haughty Lemmings connosieur. (Really, I'm not.) There are exceptions, and these levels can be fun, for sure... But would you still play Lemmings if *every* level were that way? Besides, "Lost something?" gives you a hint in the title about the theme of the level. Plus it is the first and only level like this in Lemmings, so it is novel. There are no cheap tricks involved here. I wouldn't say "Lost something?" is a real brain-buster though...
Bomber timing isn't always bad. I use it in a few of my own levels and would be hypocritical to say otherwise. But bomber timing CAN be tedious and difficult.
And about my list of "bad things", there's no problem if a level has one or two of those, but if all four are present, I don't see how the level could possibly be fun.
I think what's great about Lemmings is precisely the mixture of precision elements and brainwork. Can't get a lemming going the right direction to build the crowd out of a holding area? Work out a trick so you don't have to. Need some precisely timed bombers? Work out some landmarks, and try to calculate where you need to set them off. That's why I don't mind making bomber-timing and other "annoying" levels; but I try to mix them in with more puzzle-oriented levels, and of course many levels combine both elements.
Yes, there are tons of neat little tricks you can do that require precision, and this is one of the coolest things about (DOS, etc.) Lemmings. But when there is a level that is ONLY precision AND there is repetition invovled, it instantly becomes tedious. One or two precise moves? No problem. 10 precise moves and no puzzle? X_X
However, the one thing I distinctly don't like is when a level is unfair. A hidden exit when there's no visible one is fair because you know the point of the level is to look for it. I think a couple of hidden traps, so long as you don't overdo them, should also count as fair, because the excitement of discovery and never being certain is one of the joys of the game. I don't like hidden steel or fake steel, because steel is always an area, and it can be really tedious if you have to work out the exact limits of the area. (Traps are technically also an area, I know, but one small enough to be thought of as a point; and also, you know the size of the area because it's the same for all traps of that type.) I think the opposite to this level -- diggable areas that look like steel -- is even less fair, because it's part of the set-up that you expect such areas to be steel, and you aren't even going to bother trying. It's like a chess-player looking for the best move; the brain edits out illegal moves so you don't even see them.
Exactly! This (steel on non-steel terrain) is what gave me a bad impression of the level to begin with (after playing it only the first time). The other stuff was just my rant because it was taking me too long to pass when it shouldn't have. :P
Incidentally, I'd also like to say that I loved the design of the level we're discussing; I can't see why you don't like it. You can say that it's all unused, but there has to be a balance -- some level ideas just don't require much space. I think it's better to leave decorative terrain unused in such cases than to lengthen the level for no other reason.
It's a matter of opinion. I don't care so much that so little of the level was used (all levels in this pack are like this, and it's the style of many of the original Lemmings levels)... The design of the level just didn't appeal to me I guess (compared to his other excellent designs).
Sigh... Now I can only imagine what scrutiny my own levels will be put under if we ever review them X_X
Out of curiosity, how long did it take anyone else (besides Timballisto) to pass the level? I'm curious what experiences other people had with the level.
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Haha! Don't worry about your levels. If we review them, just because you hated this level so much doesn't make me want to jump on your levels every chance I get. I give people a lot of breaks during lemmings play because I feel like it's hard to make a good level, so you get what you can think of.
For me, to beat that level in playtesting it took, about....um....30 to 40 tries or so.
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Eek, I don't want to come off sounding like some haughty Lemmings connosieur. (Really, I'm not.) There are exceptions, and these levels can be fun, for sure... But would you still play Lemmings if *every* level were that way? Besides, "Lost something?" gives you a hint in the title about the theme of the level. Plus it is the first and only level like this in Lemmings, so it is novel. There are no cheap tricks involved here. I wouldn't say "Lost something?" is a real brain-buster though...
No, it isn't. The exit's only in the most obvious place possible. But I have to defend "Lost something", because my forthcoming new Cheapo levels do include hidden-exit levels, one of which is much more difficult. (Still no cheap tricks, though.)
And no, I wouldn't want every level to be that way. Like I said, it's the variety that makes the game. :D I've done two hidden-exit levels for my sets already, so I won't make more.
And about my list of "bad things", there's no problem if a level has one or two of those, but if all four are present, I don't see how the level could possibly be fun.
You won't like my level "The Lemming Tower of Pizza", then; it meets your points 1, 2 and 4, or nearly so; there is a bit of a puzzle in that you have to work out how to do various things so as to meet the time limit. But as I said, I feel much more strongly about your point 3 than about the others, so I wouldn't ever make a level that meets all four. Nor would I bother to keep playing one; as you say, just no fun.
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You won't like my level "The Lemming Tower of Pizza", then; it meets your points 1, 2 and 4, or nearly so; there is a bit of a puzzle in that you have to work out how to do various things so as to meet the time limit. But as I said, I feel much more strongly about your point 3 than about the others, so I wouldn't ever make a level that meets all four. Nor would I bother to keep playing one; as you say, just no fun.
Oh, the 3rd point is definitely the biggest for me as well, they're not listed in any particular order. Combine it with the 1st point, and it's as if you're insulting the player's intelligence. The 2nd point just makes it annoying to pass, so you're spending more time on the level maybe than you want to, and the 4th point, for me, is the straw that breaks the camel's back, and it's the reason why I'll never finish Conway's "Back and Forth" (Cheapo LemEdit remake. His LemEdit version is shorter.)
By the way, "The Lemming Tower of Pizza" is a great title for a level :P
As an aside, I have several levels that break 2 or 3 of these points (Floating to safety...), but never #3. Well, OK, there is a hidden trap here and there, but they are in such positions that you'd know there must be a trap there or else the level would be too simple (or the title hints at the traps). Hmm, actually, I do have one level that breaks #3 in a different way (the direction selection issue), and it's a level I've wanted to replace, but haven't gotten around to it.
Well, enough of this :P How about we move on? Who wants to review Level 6?
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I'll review level 6, after I pass it.(I haven't even tried it yet, but it shouldn't be too hard.)
Some comments related to the ranting:
Hidden exit levels can have a puzzle, if you wan't to get the level over with as quickly as possible, you have to use an efficient method for finding the exit. Levels that have no puzzle and are just precision ARE annoying. Things like bomboozal and that one that looks like fun 6 but has no bockers are pointless.(Maybe they do have a point, they could make the player scream profanities...)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb03/6.png)
Timb03 - Level 6: Box of Lemmings-Econo Size
60 Lems
100% to save
RR: 75
Time: 5:00
Skills: 19 builders
Good: Lots of nice-looking scenery. Good title.
Bad:
1)Obvious solution.
2)The time limit. (I finished with 2:34 left.)
3)Too much strait building. (1-2 minutes!)
4)The end is a bit annoying.
In fact, the only real challenge is containing and releasing the crowd, and that's not hard at all. [Sorry about all that, I just didn't like the level.]
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The stair thingamajiggy on that level looks pretty cool. And I'd imagine that a fool would try to build to the top without thinking about height :P Perhaps it is a bit too similar to "Lemmings in the attic", though.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb03/7.png)
Timb03 - Level 7: The Box of Tranquility...or not
80 Lems
47% to save
RR: 0
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 10 builders, 1 digger
Good: You have to think about the best way to save and group the lemmings with limited tools. It's possible to save quite a bit more than needed.
Bad: Well, the box isn't symmetrical (the right side is narrower), but whatever. :P
Other comments: It's the only level without scenery!
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Things like bomboozal and that one that looks like fun 6 but has no bockers are pointless.
You call that precision bombing?!? :???:
When I think of precision bombing, I generally think of something where if you're off by one pixel you're screwed. Bomboozal and Diet Lemmingaid are not precision bombings.
More importantly, since they're just about timing walkers, it's pretty easy to measure out the distance and then adjust on your next try. On your first try you assign the lemming a bomber at the position you think is good, and use your hand [finger "A"] to mark the position the lemming was at when you assign the bomber. Then use your other finger ["B"] to mark where the explosion occurs. Now shift your hand right or left until B moves to where you want the explosion to occur. Look at A, that's the position you should've start the bomber from. This method does break down slightly when the path the lemming takes goes back and forth (as in Bomboozal, where at some point the lemmings will be at a place where they will turn around at least once before exploding no matter where they were assigned the bomber), but you can still use it to some extend.
I think of all the levels in original Lemmings, "Time To Get Up" is probably the least forgiving one in terms of timed bombing, and even there it's hardly a business of being screwed by a pixel (not counting the optimal solution of course).
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In fact, the only real challenge is containing and releasing the crowd, and that's not hard at all. [Sorry about all that, I just didn't like the level.]
Hmm.... since I can't play the level I don't know, but wouldn't the "Time to get up" solution work? Or would there not be enough builders?
By the way, "The Lemming Tower of Pizza" is a great title for a level
Hey, thanks! :D
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Well, for a lot of things I use something similar to the finger trick, only for really long miner tunnels I have a piece of paper that I folded so that one edge can go along a miner tunnel and show me where it goes. I use it by putting it on the screen so the sides line up on the edges of the monitor, and then, poof! Miner path shown. My method with bombers? Usually just really good guesses. Either that or I use landmarks. If you were really into lemmings accuracy then you couls tell the number of pixels the lemmings moves per second horix, and then vertical, and then come up with a formula for finding the exact position to bomb. The only problem, I suppose, is the fact that you can't really tell what pixel a lemming is on even if you know the exact pixel you need to set the bomber on. Does anyone know the solution to that one?
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Hmm.... since I can't play the level I don't know, but wouldn't the "Time to get up" solution work? Or would there not be enough builders?
Yep, you have enough builders, and even a couple left over if you're not wasteful.
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I completed "Time to get up" without using the solution.
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You call that precision bombing?!? :???:
When I think of precision bombing, I generally think of something where if you're off by one pixel you're screwed. Bomboozal and Diet Lemmingaid are not precision bombings.
I didn't say that those particular levels were precision bombings, just that they have absolutely no puzzle. Pixel precision bombings are like you said, one pixel off...and OOPS! (The ones that are hard to guess are particularly bad, like havoc 10.)
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I completed "Time to get up" without using the solution.
I'm guessing you meant that you didn't do it the lemmings solution way. It sort of sounds like you completed the level without completing it. O_o
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I am proud of completing "Time to get up" without using the solution :)
I'll look at Level 8
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb03/8.png)
Timb03 - Level 8:Kauf, Kauft, Kaufen Sie...
Lemmings: 80
Save: 80
RR: 50
Time: 5 minutes
skills: 99 climbers, 99 floaters, 99 bombers, 99 blockers, 99 builders, 1 bashers, 1 miner,
99 diggers
Good: Hard puzzle to solve,also good level title and good scenery
Bad: 99 Climbers,floaters and bombers? There's no more than 80 Lemmings on the level.
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I'm not sure whether you mean without looking at the solution page or without using the particular solution shown on the page; but in either case, I didn't either :P
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I didn't look at the solution page to complete the level. I completed it before I found out about Lemmings on the internet.
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Good job, JM, although I think most people here didn't use the solution either :P
OK. So whose pack shall we review next? (Timballisto's packs have 8 levels in them.)
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Shvegait would you want 1 of your packs reviewing?
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Shvegait's levels are great! That would be fine with me.
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Shveg01.dat would be a good pack to review wouldn't it? I agree that Shvegait's levels are great. I'm just waiting for permission off him to review them.
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Sure, it would be good to have shveg01.dat reviewed :)
If someone doesn't have the pack, you can find it here:
http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/shveg01.dat
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I'll comment on the first level
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg01/1.png)
Shveg01 - Level 1:Just Dig?
Lemmings: 50
To be saved: 50
RR: 50
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,2 floaters,4 builders,2 bashers,1 digger
Good: Not too hard since its the first level of the pack,good level design too
Bad: Can't find anything bad about this level
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I didn't look at the solution page to complete the level. I completed it before I found out about Lemmings on the internet.
Fine.
I beat all 220 levels of both games without looking at a solution page, so there! :P
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Even havoc 20? You must be persistent...
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I beat all 220 levels of both games without looking at a solution page, so there! :P
I'm sure you weren't the only one. (Though I suppose the numbers are far fewer when it comes to the Mac version, thanks to its version of Mayhem 26.)
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I've passed 219 without look at solution pages. Eventually I'll pass Havoc 20, but no motivation right now :-(
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Even havoc 20? You must be persistent...
Why? It's not hard. Oh, I admit, it looks really forbidding, but once you settle down to play it, after a bit of trial and error to work out where to start the bombers, it's a lot easier than several of the levels before it.
And it's all bomber timing and no puzzle, so a solution page wouldn't really help much :P
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I passed all Levels in Original Lemmings,Oh No! More Lemmings and Xmas Lemmings without looking at the solution pages. They were hard but I still managed :D
I haven't passed all the levels in the Sega Megadrive version yet because that is at my friends house. I haven't got the full version of Lemmings 2 but I completed the demo of Lemmings 3-D.
So who would like to review level 2 of Shveg01.dat now I've reviewed Level 1?
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I'll review level 2.
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Go for it
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg01/2.png)
Shveg01 - Level 2: The Big Drop
Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 80
RR: 90
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 5 of everything except miners and diggers
Good: Nice design, good distribution of skills. It's fun to watch the lemmings go to the exit. The extra builder allows for a little error.
Bad: The precision is annoying.
I'm not sure if the fact that the solution is fairly obvious would be good or bad. It is the second level in the pack so there isn't really anything wrong with it being obvious.
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I find the precision annoying. It's one of them annoying levels.
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Really? The solution I use doesn't require any precision. I know there are a couple of alternate solutions for this level, but I'm not sure what the precision is about. (For these first two levels, I wasn't too concerned about backroutes, as the levels are supposed to be fairly easy anyway.) Perhaps I should have bothered to enforce the intended solution...
Is your solution possible with just 1 floater?
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I think I used all 5 floaters to help me complete the level. I found the pack hard to beat but Level 5 was the easiest for me to complete. I have to say that the levels in the pack have some really good designs I love them. They use good tricks too. Some I've never seen before.
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Really? The solution I use doesn't require any precision. I know there are a couple of alternate solutions for this level, but I'm not sure what the precision is about. (For these first two levels, I wasn't too concerned about backroutes, as the levels are supposed to be fairly easy anyway.) Perhaps I should have bothered to enforce the intended solution...
Is your solution possible with just 1 floater?
Yes, it uses 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 4 builders, 5 bashers. Whenever I see a solution I try to get it to work until it does. Sometimes I realize it's impossible or that an easier solution exists (simlpy by looking at the level), and then is the only time I will leave a solution. What was intended anyway?
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Well, I guess I will obfuscate it, although it isn't a big deal:
(Optional) Use 2 blockers at the top, and trap one lemming in between them. This makes it easier to free the crowd at the end. (Free the blocker to the left, which will be ahead of the crowd, who then frees the blocker to the right.)
Make the first lemming a floater. Build over the exit and hit the wall to the right (2x builders). Make the floater an athlete and climb over the pillars to the left. Build once to the left wall, then build once to the right to the large brick area. Bash through this, then build at the end to make a safe step for the rest of the lemmings. Free the blocker(s), and bash through the steps that you had to create to turn around initially.
That was the original solution, although there's also an alternate solution that uses more floaters and blockers but takes less time. (I didn't remove the possibility for that since it's only Level 2, and I wanted an easy warm-up kind of level.)
Now I wonder, with those tools, what is your solution?
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I might have been able to save a basher but I didn't because I didn't want to risk the lemmings splatting. Here it is:
1)RR 99 after a few lemmings get out.
2)Make #2 a blocker on top of one of the triangle shaped hills.
3)Make #1 an athlete.
4)Make him bash very close to the stairs that lead up to the exit.
5)Make him bash again very close to the end of the hole created by bashing the first time.
6)Make him build once so he turns around.
7)Build to the left at the edge of the red block.
8)Build to the right when he turns around.
9)Make him bash when he is close enough to the wall.
10)Build near the edge of the end of the bash tunnel.
11)Make a lemming in the crowd bash under the blocker.
12)Make #1 bash to shorten the bridge. (may be optional)
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Oops, 8) was a smiley.
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Ugh, while I can't say I know the specifics of whatever scripting language they use to run this forum, I am seriously becoming more and more compelled to take a deep look at the smiley codes so we can fix problems like this once and for all.
Actually, what we really need is a "no smilies" tag. You would think that if there's a checkbox to turn off smilies for the whole message, it should be relatively easy to turn smilies on/off within a message.
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When is Level 3 being reviewed?
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Do it yourself if you like!
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Ugh, while I can't say I know the specifics of whatever scripting language they use to run this forum, I am seriously becoming more and more compelled to take a deep look at the smiley codes so we can fix problems like this once and for all.
It's a CGI board, so I think the amount of hacks you can do is limited. I prefer PHP/mySQL boards myself, that's why I run an Invision Power Board, which has never had smiley problems. ;)
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Do it yourself if you like!
He doesn't seem to be online a lot so I could review it
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg01/3.png)
Shveg01 - Level 3: Impasse
Number of Lemmings: 20
100% to be saved
RR: 50
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 20 climbers,3 builders,5 diggers
Good: Hard level with a good amount of skills and lemmings
Bad: Level can be annoying
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Skills: 20 climbers,3 builders,3 diggers
You get 5 diggers actually, not 3.
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Thank you Shvegait. I've changed the 3 to a 5.
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Too bad I can't beat any of this pack's levels,otherwise I would have revieuwed the next level.
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You get 5 diggers actually, not 3.
Oh good (I haven't actually played or even examined the levels yet in LemEdit). For a while I was worried about being stumped already by the third level (thereby presumably third easiest) in your set!
Very interesting levels, maybe I'll actually play them sometime in the future (not now though, can't you hear Ahribar's nagging me about the MIDIs? ;P)
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I was able to pass the 5th level and that level wasn't too bad. Shvegait I'd love to see Pack 4.
Maybe I should review the 4th level of Shveg01.dat
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg01/4.png)
Shveg01 - Level 4: Secret Hideout
Number of Lemmings: 60
To be saved: 90%
RR: 50
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 6 climbers,6 blockers,6 builders,1 miner
Good: Level's hard and uses good set of skills
Bad: The solution is fairly obvious
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Bad: The solution is fairly obvious
I couldn't really find a way to obfuscate the solution and still require the trick. :-(
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I was meaning it's fairly obvious how you can find a way to complete the level.
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Interesting. During my earlier days of LemEdit 5-6 years ago (back when I created the LemEdit version of "If Only They Could Swim", which I do plan to release in LemEdit form eventually), I had a similar idea for a level, only on my level you have people climb up, then do the trick, and then build to go from one ____ to the next and then to the exit on top. (Sorry if this is a little unclear but I'm trying not to reveal Shvegait's puzzle idea.)
I haven't planned to release that level though because I thought the precision is too annoying (although maybe it's partly because of how I setup the terrain), but maybe I can throw it into a "cut levels" set sometime in the future. (Very far future, as I haven't even actually make the 10 levels I want to make yet.)
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I was meaning it's fairly obvious how you can find a way to complete the level. Use the <snip>. That's a good trick to use.
Please edit your post. Some people might not want to accidentally read it, since you basically are giving away the solution to the level.
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Interesting. &#A0;During my earlier days of LemEdit 5-6 years ago (back when I created the LemEdit version of "If Only They Could Swim"<snip>
Note: that post was a reply to Shvegait, not to JM. JM's post that gave away everything wasn't even there yet when I wrote.
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Yes, JM, please do edit your post! At least put it in Wingdings if you wish. The solution isn't completely obvious to everyone at first glance.
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It's been edited. Give me the link to Wingdings please.
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Enclose your message in these tags:
[*font=Wingdings]
[*/font]
(Get rid of the *s though. Just needed to put them there so they wouldn't be treated as tags.)
If you don't have the Wingdings font, you can probably get it somewhere. But if you're running Windows, you already have it. (Incidentally, if you don't have it, you can probably read all the solutions that people put in Wingdings. I think it's safe to assume that most people have it though...)
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Interesting. During my earlier days of LemEdit 5-6 years ago (back when I created the LemEdit version of "If Only They Could Swim", which I do plan to release in LemEdit form eventually), I had a similar idea for a level, only on my level you have people climb up, then do the trick, and then build to go from one ____ to the next and then to the exit on top. (Sorry if this is a little unclear but I'm trying not to reveal Shvegait's puzzle idea.)
I haven't planned to release that level though because I thought the precision is too annoying (although maybe it's partly because of how I setup the terrain), but maybe I can throw it into a "cut levels" set sometime in the future. (Very far future, as I haven't even actually make the 10 levels I want to make yet.)
The title of the level sounds good. I hope I can try it out.
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Actually, the title for the canned level that I said uses Shvegait's trick is called "Elevator out of Service" (although that isn't necessarily the final title).
"If Only They Could Swim" has nothing to do with Shvegait's trick, it just happens to be the first level I made with LemEdit, while "Elevator out of Service" is basically the second. I didn't want to release "If Only They Could Swim" though until I finish the 9 other levels that would go along with it in a set (as well as maybe improving its appearance). I did however remake the level in Cheapo, you can download the Cheapo remake here:
http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/ifonlytheycouldswim.zip
It requires the Lem-Dirt style, if you don't have it download it here:
http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/Lem-Dirt.zip
Here's a preview (the one Cheapo shows):
(http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/ifonlytheycouldswimpreview.png)
(And sorry for hijacking the thread on this Shvegait. ;P)
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The secenery of the level looks good. So who's interested in reviewing the 5th level of Shveg01.dat because I have reviewed 3 levels already and people can't just let me to review the whole pack by myself.
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Level 5 probably has several solutions (the least-tested level of this pack), and Level 6 has at least one, if not two (or more) backroutes (haven't been able to eliminate them elegantly. But, if you pass this level with a backroute, it will feel like a backroute.)... Level 7 has several solutions as well. So people should have little problem passing these 3, although maybe not with the intended solution. The difficulty will go up after that, though :devil:
@ccexplore: I've hijacked others' threads before, no need to apologize. :P
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Shveg01 - Level 5: Diffusion
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg01/5.png)
I've spent some time on this level and beat it with 96% of lems saved :)
Time:3 minutes
Lems:80
To save:80%
RR:90
Skills: 2 climbers,2 floaters,8 builders,2 bashers and 5 diggers
Good:Nice symetrical design and the level looks really intimidating at first glance (after you found out that it isn't as simple as it looks maybe)
Bad:I think my solution was a backroute,if not,you could have set the number to be saved to at least 96% and cut of a few builders.
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Yes, certainly that is a backroute. I'm not surprised that backroutes exist for this level (hey, I made it at something like 2 in the morning, and it was the last level of the pack. I just wanted to be done with it! :P Each of my packs has a level like this, unfortunately...), but I'm still curious what your solution was. Could you PM me?
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The first few tries I played the level I failed but now I can complete it. It's one of the easiest levels in the pack. I love the design of the level. It looks simple but then I found there was demolecularisers and they kept zapping every single 1 of my lemming. Pretty good level. When I completed the level I saved about 86 or 87% of the lemmings.
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I will look at Level 6 if that's okay.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg01/6.png)
Shveg01 - Level 6: Evacuation
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 85%
RR: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 5 Climbers,5 Bombers,20 Builders,5 Bashers,5 Diggers
Good: Good Solution,Good Scenery
Bad: Trying to reach the exit can be annoying
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Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 85%
RR: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 5 Lemmings,5 Bombers,20 Builders,5 Bashers,5 Diggers
Good: Good Solution,Good Scenery
Bad: Trying to reach the exit can be annoying
Whoops!
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Bad: Trying to reach the exit can be annoying
Can I ask what your solution is? (Please put it in Wingdings or something just in case ;) )
There is one backroute that involves bypassing the shredders by actually going between them, but I haven't found a clean way to fix this solution in CustLemm. In the Cheapo version, I just put two shredders on top of each other (one upside-down), and it eliminates this problem. However, the region of death in the Lemmings shredders is around the middle, so an upside-down one doesn't help much. And I kind of don't want the level looking too sloppy :P
There *may* be a builder-stretching backroute. To be honest, I haven't done very extensive testing on this level. I completely changed the solution a few months ago, when I ported it to Cheapo (the original level was easier in some ways, but less interesting), so there may be backroutes that I haven't forseen...
Ohh, yeah. Before I forget... One of the remaining levels in this pack requires a Lemmings/CustLemm-only glitch. I won't say which, but it should be obvious enough...
Whoops!
Yeah, it's 5 Climbers. JM, stop messing up the skill section :P
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That was by accident Shvegait hehe.
I didn't find Level 6 a bad level. It's a good one. I'll play on the cheapo one sometime. So is someone going to do Level 7?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg01/7.png)
Shveg01 - Level 7: Tempus Fugit
Time: 2 minutes
Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 100% (80)
RR: 70
10 climbers, 10 blockers, 10 bashers, 10 builders, 10 diggers
Good: Nice small scenery; Interesting level idea for the level.
Bad: Due to the plenty of skills it gets quite easy; title matches not so well because there's quite a lot of time left ;) (both, in general, and to build to the exit before the lemmings are down the 'loop').
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I agree the scenery is good but the only thing is that the Lemmings fall through the water. I would say this was one of my favourite levels of the pack.
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Well, it was the third level I made, and all of my solutions left you with only a few seconds left, but I can see of course that much more is possible. Still, if you're not thinking, the time will run out before you know it!
@JM: The reason for this is that if the water level were higher, it would become a precision thing with where to stop digging and where to start building. Since this was annoying, I lowered the water level, even though it is technically inactive now.
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Okay dude. Thanks. I've probably seen that in other levels. I might look at Level 8 in a bit.
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There is one backroute that involves bypassing the shredders by actually going between them, but I haven't found a clean way to fix this solution in CustLemm. In the Cheapo version, I just put two shredders on top of each other (one upside-down), and it eliminates this problem. However, the region of death in the Lemmings shredders is around the middle, so an upside-down one doesn't help much. And I kind of don't want the level looking too sloppy :P
You can create "invisible" interactive objects by setting the "draw on terrain only" flag to true and make sure to place the object entirely on empty space.
Then maybe you can stack a few of these invisible shredders along with the visible ones (make sure the invisible ones have z-order lower than the visible ones), to completely fill up gaps in the region of death without affecting the appearance.
This of course might not be feasible if there's too much surrounding terrain so that there's no completely empty space for you to place the "invisible" shredders in.
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Ah, that's a nifty idea. :) I kind of want to keep the surrounding terrain for this level how it is, though, but I'll definitely keep that in mind for any future levels that might be helped by it.
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There is one backroute that involves bypassing the shredders by actually going between them, but I haven't found a clean way to fix this solution in CustLemm. In the Cheapo version, I just put two shredders on top of each other (one upside-down), and it eliminates this problem. However, the region of death in the Lemmings shredders is around the middle, so an upside-down one doesn't help much.
Forgot to mention: the upside-down flag in LemEdit/CustLemm doesn't actually change the trigger area of the object. It just draws the object upside-down, the trigger area is still at the same place it would be if the object isn't drawn upside-down.
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Ah, yes. I did know that, but for the shredder it doesn't matter either way (as in, it even looks like the trigger area would be (roughly) the same).
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Hmm, there might be some interesting hacks I can do with the level to deal with the trigger area issue without affect appearances. No guarantees, but I'll try.
I do need a screenshot (e-mail or PM) from you though that indicates where you would ideally want the areas of death to cover, just to make sure I understand.
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Now It's time for me to review the 8th Level
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg01/8.png)
Shveg01 - Level 8: Comic Book Heroes
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 70
RR: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 10 Blockers,20 Builders
Good: Level name suits the scenery and a good set of skills to leave level
Bad: The level is fairly simple
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JM, could you PM me your solution to Level 8? (And Level 6, also, I think you missed when I asked that.)
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I'll privately message you how I could complete Level 6 and 8.
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Maybe that was the old version of Level 6 (see if the screenshot matches up)? I can't imagine having enough builders to do it that way and still saving 85% :???:
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That probably was the old version of level 6.
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Hmm. I'm not convinced that you actually passed Level 8. It sounds audacious for me to say that, I know, but I don't see how your solution would work...
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speaking of version: Shvegait, e-mail me (or post a link to) the latest version of your .DAT file too so that I don't end up working on an outdated set (for the invisible shredder thing).
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OK. You can find it at http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/shveg01.dat
(Last Updated May 1st)
Though I think the only two people to play an older version of this pack were JM and Conway :P
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Is shveg04.dat still being worked on?
I'd love to try out that pack
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I can review level 9
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg01/9.png)
Shveg01 - Level9: a stitch in time saves nine...
Number of Lemmings: 54
To be saved: 9
RR: 99
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 of each
Good: Level can be completed on time
Bad: Level not too hard
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I'll go ahead and do Level 10
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg01/10.png)
Shveg01 - Level 10: Hit the slopes!
Number of Lemmings: 60
To be saved: 90%
RR: 50
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 2 floaters,1 bomber,5 blockers,1 builder
Good: Nice scenery and good set of skills
Bad: level isn't too hard as it's the last level of the pack
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Hmm. Could you post or PM your solutions to these levels? They're probably backroutes, because 8, 9, and 10 are supposed to be the hardest levels in the pack, but the bad thing about them was that they were pretty easy (although JM's solution to Level 8 does not work! I'm still in disbelief that your solution actually worked...). So if there are backroutes, I'd like to know about them so I can eliminate them...
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Yep. I had a bit of a chuckle at how many of these levels were supposedly "easy" -- 8, 9, and 10 took me a while, all of them, and I can't say I remember the solution to any of them offhand.
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Yep. I had a bit of a chuckle at how many of these levels were supposedly "easy" -- 8, 9, and 10 took me a while, all of them, and I can't say I remember the solution to any of them offhand.
Well, I have to say, I reviewed a level of those because I like the style of the levels, expecially the short ones.
Actually I wanted to review more than just one, but unfortunately I hadn't so much time to play them and the only one I solved quite quickly was Level 7. (I have to say, it's the only one I solved yet. But for a few of the others I think I know how to do it though.)
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Wow, I have been away! I don't know how many packs have been reviewed since I last posted. So which one are we doing next?
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Only Timb03 and Shveg01 have been reviewed since your last post... with a loooooot of discussion of stuff in between X_X
Let's see, we could review one of Dragonslover's packs (Mikepak) or one of Tumble Weed's packs.. we could do a second pack from Insane Steve, or Conway, or Garjen.. Anyone have any requests?
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TWPAK11.dat or Isteve07.dat are good choices.
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Yep. I had a bit of a chuckle at how many of these levels were supposedly "easy" -- 8, 9, and 10 took me a while, all of them, and I can't say I remember the solution to any of them offhand.
Well, as Moderator, you can ban or remove reviews that are inaccurate. Inaccurate reviews do a disservice to the level designer and people who might try the level, and therefore are about as good as spam.
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Hmm, since JM had played an earlier version of the pack, he may have used a direct-drop backroute to Level 10 (no longer possible), and thus concluded that the level was easy. Or, maybe he really did figure it out right away and managed to pull it off easily... He has yet to post/PM his solution so I don't know.
However, I am fairly confident that JM did not pass Level 8. This level is the red flag for me as to whether someone has actually played through and passed the levels or just thinks they know what the solution is. If you've played and passed the level, you know what I'm talking about.
For MC Marshy's review of Level 9, it could very well have been a backroute, I can't really comment without more information, but I found it funny that the only good thing to be said was that the level is possible (shouldn't that be a given?) :-(
One rule for this thread that maybe should be brought up is that you cannot review a level unless you have beaten it! (As in you got enough lemmings in the exit(s) to pass the level...) It seems obvious enough, but I have a suspicion that this hasn't always been followed. (Exception: the level is verifiably impossible. We haven't run into one of those yet, and likely won't.)
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Insteve07.dat looks good, but my version seems to be corrupt! Anybody have a download?
And I don't think you can call it spam if somebody found a level easier than most, or if they found a backroute. It is spam, however, if a level is reviewed by somebody who has not passed it, since it goes against the rules of the game.
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Ok, IS07 will work just fine.
As for the download, My Useless Website (http://insanesteve.tripod.com) has all my LemEdit packs, not corrupted. I don't think they are, at least.
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Cool thanks!
Unless anybody has any objections, shall we do Insteve07.dat?
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/1.png)
Isteve07.dat level 1 - Give a Little Bit of Help
Save: 48/60
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 1
Skills:
Climbers: 2
Bombers: 3
Blockers: 2
Builders: 4
Bashers: 2
Good: A neat little display of the famous climb-and-bomb trick.
Bad: Not very challenging when you know the trick. (However, still good to start the pack.)
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Yeah Conway, I agree, but JM's solution to Level 8 was what you know *can't* work (well maybe you don't remember, it was a long time ago when you played it :P )
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/2.png)
ISteve07 - Level 2: _-=/Up In The Stars/=-_
80 Lems
90% to save
RR: 1
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 5 climbers, 1 bomber, 30 builders, 10 diggers
Good: Cool scenery, you have to use diggers to "bash", you can tackle a few of the obstacles in several ways, and you can save 100% :)
Bad: Well, it's a bit long I guess, with lots of building.
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&#A0;And I don't think you can call it spam if somebody found a level easier than most, or if they found a backroute. It is spam, however, if a level is reviewed by somebody who has not passed it, since it goes against the rules of the game.
Unfortunately, there aren't very good ways to tell whether someone has really passed the level or not. It so happens that recent events indicated that there are some suspicions about someone's easy "solution" to a particular level.
Note that I never said to ban reviews that discover backroutes etc., I merely said reviews that are inaccurate. I know there's little basis at this point for ISteve to actually take the drastic actions I mention, but I do want to underscore that inaccurate reviews are not appreciated and should be regarded as contemptuously as spam.
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I think I did complete Level 8 and 10 of shveg01.dat ages ago and it was the old version. You can't always tell if somebody has passed a level or not. You can try passing JM16.dat which is my newest levelpak. That is supposed to be my bestest levelpak I created. JM17.dat is still being worked on.
I beat Level 3 of Isteve07.dat and now I can review it ;P
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/3.png)
Isteve07 - Level 3: Four pillars and a trap
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 95%
RR: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 of each
Good: Has a good solution and cool decoration
Bad: Takes 2 minutes to complete and RR is too low
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/4.png)
Isteve07 - Level 4: The Annoying 1-pixel Gap
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 90%
RR: 20
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 10 of everything except builders.
Good: Plenty of room for error. Nice use of bomber timing, not too easy and not too hard. Possible to save more than required.
Bad: Time limit, I finished with well over two minutes left.
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I finished the level with a minute left. The first few times I played this level I didn't know how to play it.
I'm checking the next level. I don't know what A JUGAR! means
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/5.png)
Isteve07 - Level 5: A JUGAR!
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 40
RR: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,2 floaters,2 bombers,5 builders,3 bashers,3 miners
Good: A nice challenging level with a good solution
Bad: Time limit,took me 3 minutes to complete the level and I saved 41/80 Lemmings
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"&#A1;A jugar!" means "to play" in Spanish. It might mean something slightly different when it's just by itself as an exclamation.
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Thanks Shvegait!
The Name suits the level although it took me a few tries to complete
Has anybody passed the 6th level of the pack?
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A+infinitive, in Spanish, usually means "Let's [verb]!" As a sort of informal commandish thingy. At least, I THINK that's how it works.
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Bad: Time limit,took me 3 minutes to complete the level and I saved 41/80 Lemmings
I did it in about 2:30 and saved 52.
(Ha-ha! My backroute-finding days are back! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! :devil:)
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I know that over 50% is possible in 7.5, although I don't think I've ever managed 65%... you said it was a backroute?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/6.png)
Isteve07 - Level 6: Surrealism
Number of Lemmings: 70
To be saved: 90%
RR: 70
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 3 builders,3 bashers,3 miners, 3 diggers
Good: Title matches very well ;) ; A random looking level which isn't actually that random (at least I think it's not planned to be); gives some room for error
Bad: Not really hard (I went the way under the webs; if it is a backdoor, I call simply this fact as bad ;))
About level 4: Good: Plenty of room for error. Nice use of bomber timing [...]
Bad: Time limit, I finished with well over two minutes left.
I wonder where you used bomber timing; I just used the climber bomb (and I wouldn't call it 'timing').
Did you use it to pass the 'vertical one-pixel gap' at the top? EDIT: I just noticed that it seems to be intended to use a second climber bomb. I passed the 'vertical' gap at the top using a complicated method with bashers, miners, diggers and blockers to get up there.
Also, using direct drop is possible, which saves a lot of time.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/7.png)
Isteve07 level 7 - Annoyance (part 2)
Save: 10/10
Time: 8 minutes
RR: 99
Skills:
Climbers: 1
Bombers: 2
Builders: 2
Bashers: 1
Diggers: 2
Good: A nice deceiving design. A unique level where you have to realise what not to do and just play it simply.
Bad: Why do we need 8 minutes?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/6.png)
Isteve07 - Level 6: Surrealism
Good: Title matches very well ;) ; A random looking level which isn't actually that random (at least I think it's not planned to be); gives some room for error
Have you tried to change the graphic set? I'm curious to see if the level was made before in a different graphic set, then changed here and modified a little bit.
Because... changing the graphic set of a level by keeping the stats gives a new strange level to play and is more challenging! Have you tried sometimes? ;P
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Have you tried to change the graphic set? I'm curious to see if the level was made before in a different graphic set, then changed here and modified a little bit.
Because... changing the graphic set of a level by keeping the stats gives a new strange level to play and is more challenging! Have you tried sometimes? ;P
That's a funny idea.
And yes, indeed, you're right: It's Tricky 1 "This should be a doddle!"
Some slight terrain/object changes, and the skills changed.
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I thought Surrealism was a hard level to complete. I now know how to complete it and will have an attempt to do it later. I think I know how to get past Annoyance (Part 2) . It indeed is true if you open up Surrealism in Lemedit and change the terrain set to the dirt graphics it is Tricky 1: This should be a doddle. I remember doing that ages ago when I was looking through several levels I downloaded. I think I have a level similar to Surrealism. JM16 - Level 2. I changed the terrain set to the Pink graphics. I might do that with another level someday and do a bit of editing. I hope Insane Steve doesn't mind me opening up a level from the Original Lemmings,changing the terrain set and doing a bit of editing.
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That level is actually a contest entry. That was the one level I tested out of the two I got. Sorry. I did end up beating it....how the heck is the pixel gap level possible??????
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By going the long way around I assume, I've yet to play this pack but I will do at some point. Maybe now...
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Good idea Isu :P
I must try and pass Level 6
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ISteve07 - Level 8 - Mental Process
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/8.png)
Number of Lemmings 60
90% To Be saved
Release rate 50
Time 5 Minute
Skills: 5 Climbers
5 Floaters
5 Bomber
30 Builders
5 Bashers
5 Miners
5 Digger
Good: Very sneaky trap and it uses another trick I like, and a few miners. :D
Bad: Long and tedious. The miners/builders take forever and yup, another climb-bomb
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Oh no...I think I see a major backroute for level 8...I'll go test it...
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Oh no...I think I see a major backroute for level 8
Interesting reaction, I tend to go "oh yes" instead when I found a backroute, unless it was in my own levels of course. ;P
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I said "oh no" because Insane Steve obviously did his best to prevent it. The basic idea is, go through the steel. It turns out that I actually found a new glitch (this makes the backroute much more excusable). I saved 100% with 3:00 left. :P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/9.png)
ISteve07 - Level 9: Bash and no time
80 Lems
25% to save
RR: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 50 bashers
Good: Aptly named title, with an allusion to "Fall and no life". Takes a while to figure out the optimal route ;)
Bad: Well, the trap on the top-left is non-functional.
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Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee......I tried it again, and finished in 1:23. I might have been able to shave of 5 seconds but not much more. I expect Insane Steve will want to know what this backroute is. ;P
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Level 8, Mental Process is the one level I can't seem to figure out. I've checked all the steel is genuine in LemEdit, and checked for hidden exits. A lemming can't float through the gap because of the trap. The solution I tried was building from the bottom of the wall to the left, but the lemming hits his head on the metal ceiling before he reaches the floor.
A enjoyed figuring out level 9 thought. That one's fun, and it reminded me of my 'Great Wall of Lemmingland'.
I've looked at level 10, and it looks like a simple task of finding the most economic use of the builders.
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When I played on Level 8 I set the release rate to 99 then back to 50. I turned the 4th lemming into a blocker then the other 3 into floaters before they fall. The trap killed 1 and the the other two were safe. One reached the exit. I ended up losing on the level. The scenery is Level 8 is also cool looking and the scenery of Level 9 is aswell.
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Damn! Such an obvious trick! How could I miss it? >:( I'll go try it out now.
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Insane Steve also said he was working on a tenth pack and only 3 levels have been made. I think I know how to complete Level 8 but I always fail. I almost finished Level 9 but I lost :-(
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"Mental Process" took me a while to figure out too (on the Cheapo remake), and I had to use the hint; but then, my mental processes have never been as good as yours :D at least when it comes to solving Lemmings.
Incidentally, completely off-topic, but I've just finished a new extremely difficult "Just a Minute" level -- I just had to blurt that out because I'm so happy with it, I can't wait to be able to show it off to you!
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Cool! Are you going to upload it, or wait to put it in a pack?
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I almost finished Level 9 but I lost :-(
Or did you... Maybe there is a better route you are not seeing.
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I just passed Mental Process only killing one. Thank you JM!
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Cool! Are you going to upload it, or wait to put it in a pack?
At the moment I'm waiting for ccexplore to finish the music to my styles :P
We now return to our regularly scheduled discussion.........
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It's all good Conway :D
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Nice, level 10 is still left for me ;)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve07/10.png)
ISteve07 - Level 10: If only they could swim
Number of Lemmings 80
95% To Be saved
Release rate 20
Time 7 Minutes
Skills: 10 of everything
Note: I don't want to give away too much in my review...
Good: Really nice design, fairly misleading.
Bad: Quite a bit cheap trick used, isn't it?
For level 4 (The Annoying 1-pixel Gap) I'm quite sure that it's possible to lose just one. I'll try it out.
Level 8 I also solved the Cheapo remake first, so I know how to do it. Had taken me some time to figure out. In Cheapo it's much more comfortable because of the FF function. ;)
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geoo89 please could you PM me the solution for Level 10. I dont know how to pass it. I know how to solve the levels of the other pack it's just this last level I can't complete. The name of the level is a good 1 similar to that of 'If only they could fly' off the original Lemmings.
Now we have done a second pack of IS's we can review a new pack. We could do one of Dragonlover's or Tumble Weed's or one of the VTM levelpaks couldn't we?
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Note: I don't want to give away too much in my review...
Well, sorry, but you failed :P
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geoo89 your solution worked I passed Level 10 :D
Now what levelpak shall we review next?
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I suggest reviewing one of Tumble Weed's packs...I've seen nice levels among those :)
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:) well if you wanna do my levels i suggest you do my TWbestof set...:D
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I though we were going to do TWPAK11.dat
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I have tried all the levels from your best of pack and I couldn't beat a single level,I don't even have any clue on some levels (especially the time limits interfere with my attempts)...
So I guess it's a perfect pack to review...by the real lemmings experts :)
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well the thing with most of my levels is that they have multiple entrances and a short time limit...but i garuntee they are all possible
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I could beat Sculpture Maze. The levels are quite hard tho. I don't know how to beat the rest. I could beat levels on your other packs.
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I'm up to level 7 'Three times the fun'. The only one I've skipped is 6 - 'Stalker'. So I've passed 1-5.
Cool levels, Tumble! I guess that's why it's your best-of pack.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/1.png)
Twbestof - Level 1: Sculpture Maze
Number of Lemmings: 1
To be saved: 1
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 of each
Good: Good scenery with good solution
Bad: Solution is fairly obvious
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...obvious? Are you quite sure about that??? I just looked at the level for about 10 minutes and I haven't realized it yet.
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You will probably find out the solution after a few tries. If you can't find it I'll PM you the solution.
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Maybe take a break and look at it again later and you'll solve it.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/2.png)
TWbestof - Level 2: The Lemming Factory
10 Lems
100% to save
RR: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 5 climbers, 5 floaters, 4 bashers, 1 digger
Good: You really have to watch out for that time limit.
Bad: Despite the time limit, it's still rather straightforward.
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Level 2 isn't a bad level but Sculpture Maze is one of my favourite levels which was why I reviewed it. I have to say Level 2 has some good scenery there.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/3.png)
TWbestof - Level 3: Miner Threat
40 Lems
100% to save
RR: 50
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers, 10 builders, 2 miners
Good: Good title, nice-looking level. PERFECT time limit.
Bad: It's fairly obvious what you have to do. The precision is annoying. (And it's near the end of the level, so if you mess up, you have to start over.)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/4.png)
TWbestof - Level 4: Stairway
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 75
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 2 blockers, 2 builders, 4 bashers, 4 diggers
Good: Fun, short level. Four groups to manage (well, three) without much to work with in terms of terrain.
Bad: Plenty of extra tools, unless I found a backroute...
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um...could you please PM me and tell me what this backroute is!
I think I've actually just seen what it is...but tell me anyway
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/5.png)
Twbestof - Level 5:Everyone but the bomber
Number of Lemmings: 8
To be saved: 7
RR: 50
Time: 1 minute
Skills: All with 1 except the bomber
Good: Nice challenging level with good solution and multiple entrances
Bad: Fairly easy level and the solution is fairly obvious
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I don't understand you, JM. You say the level is challenging, then you say it's obvious! I wish you'd explain your reviews so they don't all sound the same.
Level 4 is probably my favourite in the pack. But I also had a few skills left over. Here's my solution:
Groups 2 and 3 builds to the levels above, lem1 from group 1 blocks as soon as he lands. One or both builders should turn back, and make one of them dig on the corner to let group 1 up. Make the digger bash when he's half-way down. RR: 99. Make the last lemming from group 1 dig and bash to release the blocker.
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Yep, that was my exact solution as well, Conway.
And JM, I have to say that I agree with Conway about your review(s). You contradict yourself so you in essence say absolutely nothing about the level. (How can the level be easy and challenging? How can the solution be "good" and obvious...? Well, I suppose it can, but you don't really explain it.) Try to focus on the unique aspects of the level, maybe how the title correlates to the level, the overall theme of the level, the design of the terrain, the tricks involved (without giving much away), something! It always pays to be more specific than really general, especially when we're reviewing hundreds of levels... Reading the same thing said about every other level gets boring, especially when the levels are indeed very different!
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The level can be hard to complete at first but then when you play it a lot of times the solution can be obvious. Level 6 is mostly challenging. The scenery of the level looks good. If somebody has passed Level 6 or the levels further on can they kindly PM the solution to each level?
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ugh I really need to revise these levels...I guess this is the best way, having lots of people point out things in these levels which i didn't notice. The thing with these levels is that I've 'known' what the solutions are for each of these levels and i haven't paid enough attention to backroutes. Also it didn't really help that I first created these levels years ago, and usually can't remember my initial idea.
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The level can be hard to complete at first but then when you play it a lot of times the solution can be obvious.
So sounds like the word you are really looking for is "intimidating" rather than "challenging".
I do have to agree that you need to make your reviews more specific. For each sentence of review you write, you should ask some sort of a what, how, or why question about the sentence. If you can answer it, you should add a sentence or two relating to the answer. For example, if the solution is easy or hard to figure out, ask yourself "how easy/hard?" and consider the answer. Does it only take 2-3 tries? a dozen? a few days? By including that information in the answer, you can make the review much more informative than the usual vague one-syllable adjectives, while expending only a few extra words.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/6.png)
Twbestof - Level 6: Stalker!
Number of Lemmings: 2
To be saved: 2
Release Rate: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: All with 2 except climber
Good: Level title suits level, scenery is good, level is challenging
Bad: Why do we need bombers when we have to save 100%?
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Consistency maybe? I've done that and I've seen others do that. I think it could also be to confuse people and make them wonder about possible glitches with bombers that might achieve what they want.
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It HAS to be consistancy. I've made many 1 of each task levels that require 100%, and gives you the bomber because you get one of everything else.
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On levels that require 100% to be saved I'm always wondering why some of them have bombers. That's the only thing I could say about Level 6 Why do we want bombers if we have to save 100%. Thanks Tim and Steve for the information hehe. I've probably made levels that require 100% and have bombers in the tools.
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It's the same with levels that give more climbers, floaters or bombers than there are lemmings. And I'm sure there are many 10-or-20-of-everything levels in the original game where only a few can die. It doesn't mean anything. It's just there to even out the skills, or something.
Now, has anybody passed level 7 yet? That one has been bugging me for days! The solution is fairly simple, but it takes some awesome multi-tasking skills to pass. I'm still getting there.
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It's bugging me now. If somebody has the solution to it I want them to PM the solution please. The levels further on bug me too.
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Well, after countless attempts over the last few days I have finally beaten level 7. Here goes:
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/7.png)
Twbestof level 7 - Three Times the Fun
Save: 30/30
Time: 1 minute
RR: 30
Skills:
Climbers: 30
Builders: 10
Bashers: 10
Good: Simple solution, very difficult to execute. Perfect time limit and number of skills. This is why I love multi-tasking levels!
Bad: Can get quite annoying to keep trying over and over.
Also, and this is a purely technical observation, the uppermost exit top causes the game to crash when you scroll to or from it, because it is above the top of the screen. But I guess that's a problem with the game rather than the level. This level itself isn't affected by it since it's all in one screen and you don't need to scroll.
edit: Shvegait, the image ain't appearing. :???:
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Well done Conway B)
You've passed Level 7 Good job. Level has got a good solution you're right. The exit above didn't seem to crash the game for me. Multi-Task levels are a good choice. They always rock B)
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With the added bomber, yeah its for consistancy, i know its rediculous to use it, but it looks nicer having a bomber there, and it obviously can't hinder the level by creating any backroutes so its just there.
Thanks...haha a lot of my levels are multi task, I remember when i was testing that level...wow, took me ages to get it right as well. The original version of this level was slightly easier and I made it a bit more complex for the best of pack.
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I got past Level 8 B)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/8.png)
Twbestof - Level 8: Multiple Choice
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 71%
Release Rate: 50
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 2 of each
Good: Level split into four segments,level challenging and is a multi-task level.
Bad: 71%? I saved 72%. Also the level is annoying after a few attempts to complete the level fail and the traps on Block D don't work. Hmmm I'm not sure what else is bad about the level.
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I still haven't figured out level 8. There is clearly one group that can't be saved, since you need less than 75%. A needs a basher, and D needs two, so I can't save both A and D. B needs a builder, and C needs two, so I can't save both B and C. So how am I supposed to save three groups?
:???:
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I used 2 blockers and 1 basher on A,2 builders on B,2 floaters on C,2 diggers and 2 miners and and 1 basher and 1 bomber on D. I also set release rate to 99 sometime after start of level. Tell me if you pass it.
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When I played it I took advantage of the trap problem in D. The time limit is really what makes it a challenging level, it's perfect. I'd say it is one of the best multi-task levels I've played.
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Good level. I love it. Has anybody been able to pass Level 9?
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Erm, sorry to butt in rather randomly, but where are you getting these packs from? I want to join in on the reviewing rampage!
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Most of them can be found here (http://www.garjen.co.uk/Lemmings.php).
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Or here, especially for more recent ones:
(Level Pack Topic)
http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=level_id;action=display;num=1089136533
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Good level. I love it. Has anybody been able to pass Level 9?
I haven't yet. The most I've managed to save so far is 45%. TW sure likes these tight time limits!
Okay, thanks. So I should post my pak there when I'm done with it?
Yep :)
Also, how do you take the pictures in DOSbox? You can only see a partial view of each level.
Take several screenshots, and link them together in a program like Paint. Don't worry though, if you want screenshots for your levels when they're done I'm more than willing to take them (only takes me a few minutes).
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Thanks. And don't worry, I'm sure I won't be perplexed by MS Paint ;P
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Okay, thanks. So I should post my pak there when I'm done with it?
Also, how do you take the pictures in DOSbox? You can only see a partial view of each level.
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I see there's more screenshots of Garjen's levels on your site Shvegait. His levels rock!
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yep! Timing is important, a classic example of this is my essay due tomorrow, most likely this essay will get finished 5 minutes before it's due :P. Actually I just like levels with tight timing, it seems to add an extra dimension to the level and makes the player think a little harder.
And also I'd prefer if you pretended that the traps worked where they should in Level 8, I guess I'll have to make a revised version of my best of pack.
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Actually I just like levels with tight timing, it seems to add an extra dimension to the level and makes the player think a little harder.
Heh; I sense a kindred spirit. I too love levels with tight timing; although I almost always use a whole number of minutes or a half-minute, I love the feeling of seeing the last couple of lemmings just able to squeeze in before the timer runs out. I have quite a few levels like that.
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Some of my levels are like that aswell. Well My 16th pack is my most challenging pack. I haven't passed Level 9 yet it seems too difficult. If anyone has passed it I would like them to PM me the solution please :D
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I've just started the pak, Sculpture maze was a great little level, and even when I knew the solution I still had to rush through the level, same with the second one.
But I'm stuck on Miner threat :-[. i know the solution, it's just tricky to pull off!
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I keep losing on Are you Burning? :'(
Is anybody able to review it?
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um I could...
but maybe that's not a good idea...well anyway just keep trying, everything in that level has to do with timing, and yes it is possible...
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I'll get it soon enough... But I can't try right now, maybe later today.
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I've just passed level 8 without exploiting the fire bug in part D. B)
I used 2 blockers, 1 builder and 1 miner in A,
1 builder in B,
2 floaters in C
and 2 bombers, 2 bashers, 1 miner and 2 diggers in D.
Saved: 71% with about 2 seconds left.
Cool level! On to level 9 . . .
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Well Done Conway I am proud of you.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/9.png)
TWBestOf - Level 9: Are you burning?
Number of Lemmings: 40
To be saved: 50%
Release Rate: 50
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 5 bombers, 2 builders
Good: Level is small but filled with a lot of terrain and fire which makes it look fiery. Tight time limit, quite high amount of lemmings to save for this situation (although I got 55%); bomber placement is not too obvious.
Bad: Pixel precise bomber timing is quite annoying, expecially at the beginning when you don't exactly know where to place them.
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The level design is good but I found it annoying timing the bombers. I found one of the exits impossible to reach.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/10.png)
Twbestof - Level 10: And out come the bashers...
Number of Lemmings: 20
To be saved: 95%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 20 Bashers
Good: Level Design and solution
Bad: Time limit annoying
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Can we do one of my packs next?
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Very well :)
Which do you prefer?
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um.....
hm
I'll take pack 4
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Okay I agree with Pack 4. The pack has no bugs now I've put the terrain sets correct.
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Just a reminder to anyone who wants to play his 4th pack, you will need his special VGASPEC0.DAT for Level 6. And if you have the original levels, you'll need to add 5 to the number of the graphics sets. It would probably just be convenient to have a fixed-for-CustLemm version hosted though.
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I have the the version of Pack 4 with all the graphics correct. If anybody wants it just e-mail me at thetransplants2@hotmail.com
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Here's the fixed version.
>Download!< (http://uk.geocities.com/benjconway79/timbpack4fix.zip)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb04/1.png)
Timb04 - Level 1: QUICK EVACUATION PROCEDURE 57...
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 80
Release Rate: 0
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 40 climbers, 1 builder, 15 bashers, 1 digger
Good: Lot's of scenery,fun level and title suits the level
Bad: You can use less than 15 bashers to complete the level
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You can? Did you find a backroute or something or did you just not use all of the bashers when you used them for what they were supposed to do?
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Yay! Completed level 2! I'll edit with a review shortly.
EDIT
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb04/2.png)
Timb04 - Level 2: I think we forget something...
Number of Lemmings: 3
To be saved: 3
Release Rate: 99
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 20 builders, 1 basher
Good: A challenging level with a clever solution.
Bad: Waiting for the builder at the bottom gets a little tedious, and it does seem easier then the level before it.
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Did it take you long to beat? I'd imagine the answer is no as the vast majority of my levels seem to lack the element of difficulty.
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You can? &#A0;Did you find a backroute or something or did you just not use all of the bashers when you used them for what they were supposed to do?
I imagine the latter. I don't have the means right now to test your level. Ultimately I guess it's a matter of what the initial RR is, since JM's review listed it incorrectly as "0".
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When I played the level it said the release rate was 0.
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When I played the level it said the release rate was 0.
Really? Oh well, sorry.
I thought LemEdit doesn't let you set the initial RR lower than 1. Interesting.
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Timb04 - Level 1: I think we forget something
I think you mean Level 2?
(Sorry, I'm having a little trouble with DOSbox, I'll get the picture up as soon as I can)
No, that's unnecessary. All of the screenshots for all reviewed packs are hosted at http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/ <pack name>/<level number>.png
Use the [img] tags surrounding the picture's filename.
So the picture for level 2 would be:
[img]www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb04/3.png[//img]
(But only put one slash in the last tag.)
ccexplore: Yep, LemEdit lets you specify a release rate of 0. Several other levels that have been reviewed also used this release rate. Seems kind of pointless... Is there even a difference between 0 and 1? I know most release rates aren't unique in Lemmings. 98 and 99 are identical for example. I had thought it was every pair of numbers, but I'm not sure.
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87 and 88 are identical. I haven't been able to pass the second level of the pack yet but I hope to in a bit.
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I think you mean Level 2?
No, that's unnecessary. All of the screenshots for all reviewed packs are hosted at http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/ <pack name>/<level number>.png
Use the [img] tags surrounding the picture's filename.
So the picture for level 2 would be:
[img]www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb04/3.png[//img]
(But only put one slash in the last tag.)
ccexplore: Yep, LemEdit lets you specify a release rate of 0. Several other levels that have been reviewed also used this release rate. Seems kind of pointless... Is there even a difference between 0 and 1? I know most release rates aren't unique in Lemmings. 98 and 99 are identical for example. I had thought it was every pair of numbers, but I'm not sure.
Done and done, although you put a 3 instead of a 2, which I had to change due to it showing the third level instead!
So who's going to do level 3 then?
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Done and done, although you put a 3 instead of a 2, which I had to change due to it showing the third level instead!
Sorry :-[ I haven't had much sleep past couple of nights...
Or... I did it on purpose... so you would learn! Yeah... that's it... :P
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Sorry :-[ I haven't had much sleep past couple of nights...
Or... I did it on purpose... so you would learn! Yeah... that's it... :P
Well, in the highly unlikely even that that is the truth, I failed your test :P
No problem though, just as easy a mistake to make as my Level "1".
Has anyone else passed level 2? I'll wingdings my solution if any of you want it.
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You think that level is challenging? Cool! And here I was thinking that it would be a little too easy.
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Well, I certainly had to think about how I'd do it, although it was easy to pull off.
I'll post my solution, but, err... how do you make a piece of text wingdings on here?
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click on the red letter 'A' in the post window. It should put in some brackets with the word font in it and a font name. Type in webdings in replacement of the font name already there and type the solution between the font tags.
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Thanks! Here it is then.
When the first lemming in the top-right corner goes right next to the left-side wall, set him to a builder so he makes one step, and then leave these lemmings for the moment. Instead, turn your attention to the one below, and make him build a wall going up to the right wall from his starting point. Then, when he\s finished, start building towards the gap in the brick wall closer to the centre of the level, and make sure you start fairly low down your ladder. Then, when the lemming goes just to the left of the gap, he\ll stop building. Click him when he starts walking left, and repeat this with timing so he goes into the gap, and carry on clicking so he builds up something of a replacement for the wall. Now back to the two lemmings. When one walks onto the step we made earlier, set him as a basher. He\ll bash through the wall, with a line of a one-pixel width just below him. He\ll carry on through your replacement wall without stopping, freeing the builder lemming in the process, and will bash until the end, swiftly avoiding bashing into the iron. Et voila! Three rescued lemmings.
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ccexplore: Yep, LemEdit lets you specify a release rate of 0. Several other levels that have been reviewed also used this release rate. Seems kind of pointless... Is there even a difference between 0 and 1? I know most release rates aren't unique in Lemmings. 98 and 99 are identical for example. I had thought it was every pair of numbers, but I'm not sure.
That's correct, the game (at least the PC version) treats every pair of RR numbers identically, so 98 and 99 are equivalent, 96 & 97, ..., 0 & 1. This is clear from the calculation the game's programming does with the RR.
And if I recall correctly, the game doesn't respond to lowering RR when the RR is already at the initial RR, so it's not like you could go below 0 either. Thus I think initial RR 0 and initial RR 1 are completely equivalent.
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Oh well. I like to think that they're different anyway somehow. They're different because it makes the levels different. Sometimes I use 0, sometimes 1.
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Although it doesn't affect the lemmings, there's certainly a visual difference, since the value "0" is displayed as a blank in the skills toolbar.
I can imagine for example that a "nuking" level with no skills can benefit from an initial RR of 0 so that every number in the toolbar is blank, while a 1-of-everything level would prefer an initial RR of 1 to fit with the rest of the number of skills.
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I was just thinking it would be cool to emulate that in Cheapo, by putting a blank for the zero digit in the style........ only trouble is that then, for instance, 90 would show up as 9-blank, but that's a minor drawback :P
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well then maybe we should have the double zero as a blank somehow. When an amount of skills reaches 0 then the textfield goes blank or something. I don't know what language Essman is using or anything but I hope that helps. Why not put that in the suggestions for the new cheapo game?
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I already did, a long time ago; my post was just referring to the current Cheapo.
And it's not just double-zero equals blank, it's also the numbers one to nine that Cheapo displays at 01 to 09 instead of blank-one to blank-nine.
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I think you misunderstood. At least in DOS, only "00" (which is what I actually meant by "the value 0") shows up as a blank. Everywhere else the 0 shows, even in "01" for example.
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But in Cheapo, you can only change an individual digit. You can't make "00" equal to "blank blank". All you can do is make "0" equal to "blank", which makes ALL zeros show as a blank.
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I think you misunderstood. At least in DOS, only "00" (which is what I actually meant by "the value 0") shows up as a blank. Everywhere else the 0 shows, even in "01" for example.
Really? Blanks before single digits is what I remember from the Mac version, though I could be wrong.
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Gah, level 3 is harder then it looks.
Anyone solved it?
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I haven't. I'll play it later. I can complete Level 4 :P
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Really? Blanks before single digits is what I remember from the Mac version, though I could be wrong.
Maybe the Mac version is different then.
On the PC and Amiga versions the numbers in the skills toolbar are displayed just like how they are shown on the "Lemmings Solution" site.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb04/3.png)
Timb04 - Level 3:I suppose that's an exception?
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 95%
Release Rate: 05
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 2 floaters, 2 bombers, 2 blockers, 10 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner
Good: A fun level and a good puzzle
Bad: 7 minutes? It took me 4 minutes to complete the level and also I saved 79/80 Lemmings when I first completed the level.
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79/80?... What was your solution?
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I'll PM it to you
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Interesting. I thought that was....
well maybe not.
Either way it seems like it actually took a little time to beat so that's cool.
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Maybe the Mac version is different then.
I checked this morning, and I was right; the Mac does display single-digit numbers with a preceding blank. The Genesis, however, has the same behaviour as the Lemmings Solution site.
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I've also completed Level 4 I'll review it later I'm too busy at the moment.
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I saved 80 in level 3. It's a fun level. I haven't looked at level 4 yet. Have to go . . .
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb04/4.png)
Timb04 - Level 4: Another one o' them line levels?
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 80
Release Rate: 75
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 80 climbers, 80 bombers, 80 blockers, 9 builders, 80 bashers, 80 miners, 80 diggers
Good: The title is suitable for the level and the level uses a good solution
Bad: Not a lot of scenery, also the the time limit is too long it took me something like 3 or 4 minutes to complete the level.
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Well I passed level 4 with no problem, but I'm quite puzzled about level 5. :???:
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I'm puzzled about Level 5 aswell. Anyone passed it?
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Not yet. I'm wondering if you need to use the 2 miners stopping each other trick though. It seems to be the only way to link the lowest group of lemmings with the others...
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This is hilarious. They levels I thought would be the easiest are the ones people can't pass for a little bit.
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I think I've found a backroute on level 3.
Do the bridge leading up to the crystal on the hill, and put the blocker at the start on a thick piece of grass so he doesn't create a hole when he explodes. When the builder gets to the top, build one bridge at the other side, make him a floater and drop (Make sure he lands on the crystal). Let him walk right, as the gap with the moving vines will not harm your lemming. When he gets to the bit of terrain which is higher then the lemming, build a bridge so he changes direction, and start building a bridge towards the left. You should have three builder skills left here, which will be enough. Then when he gets to the large hill, simply let him go and bomb the blocker. The lemmings will then safely land on your bridge, and thus the level is done.
Well either that, or the solution is more simple then I first thought :P
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Yep. That's a backroute. But where exactly is it that you're allowed to place the blocker without him exploding through?
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Your question... My answer!
Near the start of the lemmings-fall point, the landing terrain is very thick. That's where I placed it, and there were a few pixels left underneath it.
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Darn...well I guess I can just adjust it in the final version of the pack.
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I did the same as Jazzem except I freed the blocker with the miner and basher.
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Level 5...Who's passed it?
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I'm building up a solution on it, it's just the matter of the bottom right-lemmings and getting them to the goal.
I have to say though, it's a great level. Very original design.
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Are you reviewing it?
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If I can complete it! Feel free to review it if you've done it though.
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Sorry I haven't done it.
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I see certain things about the level setup of level 5 that aren't just random but I can't figure out how to link up the lower right entrance with the rest...
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Is it supposed to be possible to save 100% on level 8(There seems to be a problem dude)? I'm guessing no because the solution given was different.
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Not yet. I'm wondering if you need to use the 2 miners stopping each other trick though.
Has that trick been actually verified to work in DOS CustLemm and/or Lemmings/ONML?
I'm asking because it seems to me that, due to the miner glitch involving how his vertical position is already lowered by 1 pixel while swinging the ax, the most logical setup for this trick with the 2 miners facing each other at the same height separated in between by 4 or 5 pixels, will not actually work. (There might be other setups, involving the miners meeting with each on a rather different height, that could work but I'd first need to examine the exact shape of the miner's terrain-removal mask more closely.)
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(There might be other setups, involving the miners meeting with each on a rather different height, that could work but I'd first need to examine the exact shape of the miner's terrain-removal mask more closely.)
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm now convinced that no setup with the 2 miners at different heights can possibly work. Because if they can't affect each other enough when meeting at equal height, when they are at unequal height, the higher one will be at an even worse position to have any effect on the lower one.
So I'm currently of the opinion that trying to get 2 miners to stop each other will not work on PC versions of Lemmings, ONML etc. (But do try to prove me wrong though--"prove" meaning try it out now, not "I remember this working some time ago". Memories can be faulty.) Note that you can still have a case where miner A's actions stops miner B, and then miner A stops mining because of the terrain itself, rather than actually as a result of miner B's action. That's of course a different thing altogether.
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well i remember you said no "I remember this working some time ago"...but a couple of years ago i think i was trying out the 2 miners trick for one of my levels and i tried for ages to get it to work, but I'm about 99% sure that it is impossible, as well as this I'm sure bashers and diggers can't cancel eachother out. The only thing i know that works is 2 bashers cancelling eachother out, but i guess thats fairly obvious.
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Hmm. Perhaps I was thinking of Cheapo then, where this is possible.
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So has anyone solved level 5 yet?
I was breaking my mind on if for a full 2 hours yesterday and came up with about 20 different miner positions but nothing worked...I thought I found out the solution,yet then another problem popped up :(
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as well as this I'm sure bashers and diggers can't cancel eachother out.
Well, I really wouldn't expect that to work even in Cheapo (I haven't really tried though).
As far as DOS Lemmings/CustLemm/etc. is concerned, I think the only 2 that work are basher-basher and basher-miner. miner-miner would have probably worked as in Cheapo, if not for the miner glitch.
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So has anyone solved level 5 yet?
I was breaking my mind on if for a full 2 hours yesterday and came up with about 20 different miner positions but nothing worked...I thought I found out the solution,yet then another problem popped up :(
I'll take a look soon.
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I think my route is going in the right direction, it's just the last few bits that need fiddling with.
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Well, I really wouldn't expect that to work even in Cheapo (I haven't really tried though).
It works. Insane Steve uses this in his level (Set 4 Hopeless) Plan B.
In general, the miners in Cheapo work quite strange.
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Typo? I was talking about basher and digger canceling each other out, which has nothing to do with miners.
I don't think the miners in Cheapo are any stranger than CustLemm's/Lemmings. If anything, the Lemmings ones are probably more strange.
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I'll take a look soon.
Well, after a little thought I finally got it, or rather I would've gotten it if my mining wasn't off. X_X I still think it'd be best to let someone else actually solve it for real, that and I'm a little lazy to write the review. ;P You don't have to do anything extraordinary to solve this level. It might help though if you look at the terrain carefully. Remember Genesis's "Electric circuit", how a piece of terrain that merely looks solid can in fact have places where you can fall thru while walking (ie. which doesn't work in Cheapo).
A little bit of precision seems to be required in one or two places. It only necessary just because of how the terrain is laid out and has no real role in the solution, so if I were to review the level that would be a bad.
Overall an interesting level.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb04/5.png)
Timb04 - Level 5: The old abandoned mine shafts
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 80
RR: 99
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,5 miners
Good: Has good scenery,hmm uses good amount of tools
Bad: Annoying level after failing a few times
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I've done level 6 :D
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb04/6.png)
Timb04 - Level 6: Who thought up THIS stupid wall?
Number of Lemmings: 30
To be saved: 30
RR: 01
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 8 floaters, 2 builders, 1 basher, 4 miners
Good: A very challenging and original puzzle. The strict time limit and the huge amount of of multi-tasking means it is a very demanding level that's satisfying to solve.
Bad: The time limit does make it a little frustrating considering the amount of effort it requires, and the name could be a bit better.
Strange, after that level nocdlem asks me to insert a disk :???:
EDIT: Ack! It requires an extended graphic set. Could someone give me the link for it?
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It should come with the pack...
Oh, btw nice avatar.
You can find the pack at this weird little place that is my site (http://www.webcatgraphics.com/jmlproductions/jeffsite.htm)
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Hmm, for Level 6, I had a miner left over. Is that intentional, or a backroute?
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb04/7.png)
Timb04 - Level 7: The Pipes
80 Lems
92% to save
RR: 0
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 3 climb, 3 bomb, 2 block, 7 build, 1 bash, 1 mine, 2 dig
Good: The first new special graphics level made with ccexplore's myvgaspec. And it looks great! It fits in with the other Lemmings sets. It's possible to save 100% :)
Bad: Continuing the tradition that special graphics levels must be extremely straightforward with no challenge at all...
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb04/8.png)
Timb04 - Level 8: There seems to be a problem dude
Number of Lemmings: 10
To be saved: 8
Release Rate: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 47 climbers, 35 floaters, 2 blockers, 1 builder, 1 miner, 2 diggers
Good: The title fits in with the scenery and the level is tricky
Bad: Why do we need 47 Climbers and 35 Floaters when we have 10 Lemmings?
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Number of Lemmings: 10
To be saved: 10
? The correct number to be saved is actually 8.
I mentioned earlier that it is possible to save 100%, but timballisto hasn't said anything about it, so I doubt that the pack was updated.
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Ok thanks. We could review one of Dragonslovers packs. I would say Mikepak02.dat or Mikepak06.dat would be good packs to review.
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Mikepack02 it is then!
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Could someone PM me the solution of level 5?
After the next pack,I'dd like my new pack to be reveiwed :)
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Mikepak02 has some well designed levels with some good feature etc so we will review that pack. We haven't got the screenshots for the levels yet.
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Mikepak02 has some well designed levels with some good feature etc so we will review that pack. We haven't got the screenshots for the levels yet.
You don't? They should be there, as I added them back in May.
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Ack, these levels are just one step away from impossible!
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Shvegait there's only Mikepak00 and Mikepak01 in the screenshot section.
EDIT :Also Jazzem you can complete the levels. They are not impossible I can beat some of them.
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I can beat about half of the levels I believe...better than the 1 or 2 on the previous packs :)
Edit: I just solved level 1. When the screenies are up I'dd like to review that level :)
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Also check the 9th level out. Amazing solution and design. Dragonslover's levels are amazing.
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I'll set up the screenshot later when it's available :)
Mikepak02 - Level1 - Rescue on the dangerous lake !
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak02/1.png)
Lems: 10
To save: 10 (100%)
RR: 1
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 bomber,1 blocker,10 builders and 3 bashers.
Good:Very nicely designed level where the order of doing certain things is crucial and needs a bit of thinking first.
Bad:I could finish the level in 3 minutes and the level is quite easy.
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Oops, 00 and 01, not 01 and 02..
I'll get them up later today, sorry.
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That's ok Shvegait. Has anyone got the solution for Level 2?
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I have quite a good idea on the trick used for level 2 but I was only able to save 2 lems.
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I was only able to save 2 lemmings also on that level. Who's reviewing it?
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Mikepak02.dat level 2 - Impossible ?
Save: 18/20
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 20
Skills:
Climbers: 18
Floaters: 2
Bombers: 2
Blockers: 2
Builders: 2
Good: A nice, intimidating design that convinces you it's impossible unless you know the trick.
Bad: Slightly annoying to place the second builder, and I had 3:30 remaining on the clock.
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All the screenshots for Mikepak02 are up.
For level 2, here's a little hint. If you can save 2, you're on the right track. Now think a little harder.. how could you save more doing the same thing?
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak02/3.png)
Mikepak02 - Level 3: The steel can be destroyed
80 Lems
87% to save
RR: 20
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 2 floaters, 10 bombers, 10 blockers, 20 builders
Good: Teaches a useful trick about the Lemmings game mechanics.
Bad: If you know the trick already, the level is very easy.
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Mikepak02 - Level4 - The clambering
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak02/4.png)
Lems:80
TS:98% (79 lems)
Time:5 minutes
RR:20
Skills:1 bomber,1 blocker,10 builders,1 basher
Good:The design in which the water fills the gap.
Bad:Very,very easy level with no puzzle at all if you know the trick,time limit also far from sharp.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak02/5.png)
Mikepak02 - Level 5: What is the steel?
80 Lems
87% to save
RR: 30
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers 10 floaters, 10 blockers, 10 bombers, 20 builders, 10 bashers, 10 miners, 10 diggers
Good: A somewhat original level.
Bad: Far too easy for it's place in the pak. The trick used is cheap and easy to discover, and when you do the level becomes very straightforward. To top it off, the amount of skills, the time limit and the quantity of lemmings to save are too generous.
The levels do seem to be getting easier. Perhaps these last few should've been placed initially in the pack?
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Sorry, I beat you to it :-(
EDIT: You didn't have to delete it JM! After all that hard work, I think you deserve it to be seen, even if I got there first!
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The 5th level uses a good trick. On my go I saved 95%. The levels at the end seem fairly easy aswell. Who has passed Level 6?
EDIT: :-( Oh dude I didn't know you had already reviewed it. Oh well.
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No harm done, we all make mistakes. I'm the living proof :D
Sure is a lot of building in this pack. And judging by my glimpse of the next level, that's not changing anytime soon.
EDIT: 95%? I managed 97%. 100% is definately possible too.
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It's ok I'm not worried. I haven't passed Level 6 who's got the solution for it?
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I've passed it! but I'm not going to review for two reasons.
1)I just reviewed the last one, so it would be unfair for me to review straight after.
2)I think my solution was a backroute...
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Mikepak02 - Level 6: The big stair
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak02/6.png)
5 Lems
100% to save
RR: 25
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 2 blockers,2 bombers,50 builders
Good: Title suits the level,100% to be saved
Bad: This level aint no challenge at all...it's just building,building and yet again,building.
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Oh, so maybe my solution wasn't a backroute :)
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I'll play Level 7 later.
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Anyone ready for level 7?
It's the only one except from level 2 I can't beat in this pack (I keep getting stuck at 80% saved where I need 81%)
I managed to save 25% on level 2 now but the other lemmings climb themselves into death,eventough at first sight the level should work for me.
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I can get passed Level 9 and Level 10 they are fairly easy. I tried Level 7 a few hours ago and failed.
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The difficulity curve is certainly random in this pack.
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It certainly is. I havent got passed Level 7 yet and I'll try and pass it in a bit.
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It's a shame it isn't easier to rearrange the levels in packs, it usually involves lots of deleting and re-saving.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak02/7.png)
Mikepak02 - Level 7: The small factory!
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 81%
Release Rate: 01
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,2 floaters,2 bombers,2 blockers,4 builders,2 bashers,2 miners,2 diggers
Good: Level has nice scenery and a good amount of skills
Bad: The time limit, it took me 3 minutes to finish the level
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Finished level 7 now with 82% saved and more than 3minutes on the clock.
I finished level 8 earlier today.
Mikepak02 - Level 8: EMERGENCY 1
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak02/8.png)
Lems:80
TS:98%
RR:50
Time:5 mins
Skills:1 climber,1 floater,1 bomber,1 blocker,10builders and 3 bashers.
Good: I really love this level design and the level makes you think on how to delay the second group of lemming.
Bad: Level is quite easy,also yet again,the time limit is way too generous.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak02/9.png)
Mikepak02 - Level 9: The Invisible Level
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 93%
Release Rate: 20
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: All with 1 but blocker and bomber
Good: Amazing Scenery with amazing features
Bad: Time limit: It took me 4 and a half minutes to complete and I saved 97%. It is possible to just lose 2 or 3 lemmings on the level.
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Good: Amazing Scenery with amazing features
"Amazing scenery" almost sounds sarcastic. ;P
But really, can someone tell me whether there really are invisible (but functional) terrain in that level? I would be rather surprised since I didn't expect it to be possible without something like myvgaspec or some sort of modified graphics set. And if there are no terrain, what's actually happening when you play the level?
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I checked the level in LemEdit and it uses the black parts of certain terrain pieces from the crystal set.
It's an original idea for a level :)
Level 10 is fairly easy too but I'll give the chance to someone else reviewing it :)
After this,is it OK to have my second pack reviewed?
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ccexplore play Custlemm in EGA mode and you will see that the terrain turns out grey and visible. Also Leviathan you can have your second pack reviewed after this pack is finished. Level 9 is one of the best Lemedit levels you will ever play.
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I checked the level in LemEdit and it uses the black parts of certain terrain pieces from the crystal set.
Wow, interesting. I always thought those black parts were just a really dark shade of blue, but I guess they are actually true black!
Definitely an interesting concept, but what a pain it is to create the level!
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This is really interesting. There are terrain pieces in the crystal set and the middle part which is black is actual terrain. You should play on my level "The Invisible Bridge" and the bridge the lemmings walk along is invisible. So who wants to review Level 10?
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Conway06.dat Level 5, "Somebody swich on a light" [sic], is a level with a similar concept, all "invisible" terrain.
Also, Conway04.dat Level 9, "The invisible barrier", uses the same trick of black terrain for part of the level.
I didn't realize how this was accomplished either until Leivathan mentioned that. Clever indeed! And thanks for the tip JM to make these levels trivial :P
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It is clever. These authors are good at designing levels with invisible terrain. You should check out No use for a terrain from TWPAK09. Also check out What happened to all the terrain? from JMGM02.
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I found a glitch while messing around with level 10. It can't be applied to any level from Lemmings or ONML though, and it can't be applied to level 10. It obviously has very specific requirements, but it looks CRAZY.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak02/10.png)
Mikepak02 - Level 10: All with 6 (Except builder!)
Number of Lemmings: 66
To be saved: 87%
Release Rate: 66
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: All with 6 except builder
Good: A cool level with cool scenery
Bad: Too easy
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I found a glitch while messing around with level 10. It can't be applied to any level from Lemmings or ONML though, and it can't be applied to level 10.
Well, that is a bit undescriptive, if you can't even give a level where it could be of use. ;)
Let's start with: where's the rough location in the area of level 10 in which the glitch occurs/can be observed?
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I got it to happen in level 10 because I dug/bashed/mined around a bit in the terrain lump.
I might use it in a level, so if you really want to know it (maybe you can somehow use it for some level in Lemmings or ONML...), I can email you.
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Well, maybe I'll just wait for your level instead.
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If you all agree would you guys like to review my second pack?
It's called "levipak2.zip" and is available here: http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php
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I would like to review your second pack. We need the screenshots first. After that we could review another of conway's packs, another of shvegait's packs, anatols levelpak, another one of garjens, another one of hubbarts, another one of lemeris or steavers levelpak
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak2/1.png)
Levipak2.dat level 1 - Umbrellas sold out!
Save: 41/41
Time: 1 minute
RR: 1
Skills:
Floaters: 1
Builders: 3
Bashers: 1
Good: A nice and simple level that employs a neat trick.
Bad: Disguising an exit for a trap is a little sneaky! ;)
I hope I'm not being premature by doing the image url before it's up!
Would anyone mind reviewing conway12.dat next?
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Conway12 would be fine by me. Later when I finish my upcoming pack we could maybe review that. The author disguised an exit for a trap how sneaky haha. I hope Shvegait manages to get the screenshots soon. I haven't passed the second level either but I completed it when Leviathan gave me a copy of it. Now it's harder as he eliminated a backroute. Conway have you passed it?
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Yep! It's not overly difficult, it just uses a method one could barely argue as a trick. Lems 1 and 2 go into the bottom exit and lem 3 goes in the top.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak2/2.png)
Levipak2 : Level 2: Splatter Bonus
Number of Lemmings: 3
To be saved: 3
Release Rate: 11
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 climber,2 floaters,3 bombers,4 blockers,5 builders
Good: Uses good trick and solution
Bad: The arrows aren't used in the level
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I'm creating a pak, although I'm not getting too far, I'm not finding the time to ad to it on weekdays. Hopefully I'll get at least half of it done by the end of the week.
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Level 5 is really doing my head in! =8O
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OK. The screenshots are all up. If they're not there, put the image URL in anyway, since you know what it's going to be. So it'll be a red X for a while, but it will be fixed automatically once I get the pictures up.
It seems that the pace of the reviews has increased. For DragonsLover's pack, we had 2 people try to review a level at the same time... twice! Maybe people just had free time over the weekend, but anyway, this is good :)
So, because of that, I wanted to reserve reviewing Level 5, if that's OK :)
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OK. The screenshots are all up. If they're not there, put the image URL in anyway, since you know what it's going to be. So it'll be a red X for a while, but it will be fixed automatically once I get the pictures up.
It seems that the pace of the reviews has increased. For DragonsLover's pack, we had 2 people try to review a level at the same time... twice! Maybe people just had free time over the weekend, but anyway, this is good :)
So, because of that, I wanted to reserve reviewing Level 5, if that's OK :)
Yeah, like I said earlier, I haven't had much time today. Meteos for the DS came in the post today, so that kept me busy after school.
I'll try the pak out though, hopefully I'll get a review done.
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Has anybody been able to pass the third level?
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I've passed 1,2,3,4,5,7,9. Level 9 seemed way too easy for its place in the pack. I also saved 100% on level 4, would that be a backroute? It was pretty tricky to execute, but it looked awsome when it worked.
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100% on level 4 is definately a backroute...could you PM me on how you did it?
I order my levels in such a way that the odd numbers are easy levels or short levels and the even numbers repreent harder,and/or longer levels.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak2/3.png)
Levipak2: Level 3: Bridge over the mississippi
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 100%
Release Rate: 99
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,20 builders,1 basher,1 miner,1 digger
Good: Cool scenery,suits the gold graphic set,has good solution
Bad: Level appears daunting and annoying after a few attempts to pass the level. Also the start screen is in the middle and it's supposed to be put at the entrance of the level.
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I assume you're meant to use the 100% Cascade trick?
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Yeah you use the 100% cascade trick.
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And,unless someone found another solution,it gets difficult at the end to manage a perfect direct drop :)
This is my first bridge level...I have another bridge level in my set which took very much time to develop :)
Level 4 is a lemmings 2 remake which I found that has a cool solution :)
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Direct drop should be pretty easy, since you'd be using the miner; but I really can't see why it's necessary to use direct drop on that level at all.
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Anyone managed to pass the fourth level?
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Well I suppose you could float down beside the exit and do a little building work to catch the others, but there are no floaters, so I don't see how you could do it without direct-drop.
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Oh, all right. Just from looking and guessing I thought the lemmings could drop onto the near corner of the platform without floaters; if you say so, I'll believe they can't.
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Well it might be possible. I haven't tried it.
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No need to guess. If you open up the screenshot in MS Paint and start sketching, you find that the lowest part of the stair that allows you to drop into the corner yields a drop height of 68. Even on CustLemm the maximum is 66.
Of course, I haven't actually played the level yet, so maybe if you break open the stairway at a lower height and then build, maybe you can reach the corner that way with a lower drop.
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No need to guess. If you open up the screenshot in MS Paint and start sketching, you find that the lowest part of the stair that allows you to drop into the corner yields a drop height of 68. Even on CustLemm the maximum is 66.
I can't do that when I'm at work, though :P
Of course, I haven't actually played the level yet, so maybe if you break open the stairway at a lower height and then build, maybe you can reach the corner that way with a lower drop.
With so many builders, I'd say it's certain you can. You can afford the builder to hit his head on the stairway above the break several times.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak2/4.png)
Levipak2: Level 4: Tension sheet, good idea
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 98%
Release Rate: 20
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 3 builders, 1 basher, 1 bomber, 2 miners, 1 digger
Good: Well designed level with a solution you do have to think about. The settings are spot on too, with the right number of skills and the strict but not near-impossible time limit.
Bad: Level is easy overall (Especially once you know the solution), and it should really be set a little bit earlier in the pack. The title isn't all that.
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I already think I know the solution to the level. I have tried to pass Level 5 but failed despise being given the solution. Level 4 basically has good scenery.
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Bad: Level is easy overall (Especially once you know the solution)
Isn't that the way it should be? I would hope the level wouldn't get harder once you know the solution :P
Earlier in the pack? Isn't it already just level 4?
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak2/5.png)
Levipak2 - Level 5: Yeah right...you wish!
80 Lems
97% to save
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 floater, 1 bomber, 3 builders, 1 miner, 1 digger
Good: If you're not careful, you'll be tricked into thinking the level is impossible! Good trick, design, title, etc.
Bad: One of the final moves requires a certain position, which is not necessarily apparent. (If you've passed the level you may know what I mean.)
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100% on level 4 is definately a backroute...could you PM me on how you did it?
Actually, I thought it's fairly well known already that the corresponding level in Lemmings 2 is 100%-able, so it should be expected that your remake is also 100%-able. And it's not really a backroute at all, just using a clever trick to avoid the 1 lemming you'd otherwise lose.
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You passed it!?
*Bows repeatedly* We're not worthy!
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I think several messages were posted simultaneously, so, Jazzem, which of us are you talking to?
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Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 3 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner,1 digger
This is incorrect. You also get a bomber and an extra miner (2 total). No wonder I was having trouble figuring it out from that.
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Apologies, edited.
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Actually, I thought it's fairly well known already that the corresponding level in Lemmings 2 is 100%-able, so it should be expected that your remake is also 100%-able. &#A0;And it's not really a backroute at all, just using a clever trick to avoid the 1 lemming you'd otherwise lose.
I just want to clarify, in light of Jazzem's enigmatic comment, that I did not pass the remake version of the level, I haven't even played it yet. All I have done so far is achieve 100% on the original Lemmings 2 level, which probably works on the remake also, but hasn't been confirmed.
Or Jazzem's comment might be to Shvegait regarding Levipak #2 level 5, I don't know.
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I'm still stuck on level 5. >:(
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak2/6.png)
Levipak2.dat level 6 - The Golden Lem Bridge
Save: 80/80
Time: 7 minutes
RR: 99
Skills:
Bombers: 80
Builders: 60
Bashers: 10
Miner: 10
Digger: 10
Good: A very long level. The time limit may look generous, but it's needed. It's a fun, symmetrical level with a good layout.
Bad: The lack of terrain under the exit is quite sneaky. I won't even mention the 80 bombers, but 60 builders is perhaps too generous. I passed it with 30, but I know it's possible with just 20.
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I'm still stuck on level 5. >:(
A hint: Look carefully at the skills...
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I love symmetrical levels. Has anyone got the solution for level 7? If they have can they kindly PM it to me thanks.
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The reason for giving bombers and plenty of skills is to let people experiment with the bridge :P
In my next pack I will greatly reduce the amount of skills and get 4 entrances :)
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4 entrances in the next pack will be good. I like levels with more than 1 entrance. Also Leviathan have you got the solution for Level 7 Need more help from above? please?
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I just want to clarify, in light of Jazzem's enigmatic comment, that I did not pass the remake version of the level, I haven't even played it yet. All I have done so far is achieve 100% on the original Lemmings 2 level, which probably works on the remake also, but hasn't been confirmed.
Or Jazzem's comment might be to Shvegait regarding Levipak #2 level 5, I don't know.
Yeah, it was regarding level 5. I'll give it another go tonight, I just hope it doesn't use a glitch as part of the solution!
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Yeah, it was regarding level 5. I'll give it another go tonight, I just hope it doesn't use a glitch as part of the solution!
The solution can be figured out logically.
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Good, I'm not too fond about glitch based levels.
Level 7's a tough one, but my solution's getting there, it's just the last steps I need to configure.
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Well,level 7 is a level that,normally,should require a glitch :)
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Aww nah... :-(
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Has somebody been able to pass Level 7?
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Yeah,me :P
I'm giving one more hint: it involves the miner glitch.
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Could you PM the solution please if that's okay?
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I don't know of any miner glitch. That may be why I still haven't been able to figure it out.
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A hint for level 7: Havoc 10.......
I am now going to try the level without the glitch.
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Conway, review the Lemmings Challenges thread. That's your assignment. See you next class.
And btw, thanks for the hint Leviathan. I wouldn't have thought to use that. Now it makes sense.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak2/7.png)
Levipak2 - Level 7: Need more help from above ?
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 of each
Good: Requires a rather interesting but kind of serious glitch. Almost makes you believe another solution is possible (the backroute to the original, which no longer works presumably).
Bad: It's a glitch, and not one you'd be able to find easily, so if you don't know it, the level is impossible.
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It doesn't seem possible without the glitch, leviathan did a pretty good job.
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I don't know the glitch. I haven't passed the 8th level yet. All the lemmings keep running into the waterfall. The original version of cascade is easy. Lemeri's version of Cascade is harder but so far a good level. Anyone got the solution for Level 8?
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You need to use the 100% cascade trick to keep the lemmings from going into the waterfall.
From then on,the level should be relatively easy.
As for level 7,I'll PM you on how to use the miner glitch.
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I'll play Level 8 later:P
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I take it level 8 uses a glitch? Because when I take one look at that level I weep :P
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I know how it's passed. I've saved most of them, but 100% is hard.
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I can't pass it.
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Actually, I never passed Cascade with 100%.
And here are the screenshots (don't click if you want to pass Water Cascade by yourself):
1 (http://uk.geocities.com/benjconway79/pictures/water.png) and 2 (http://uk.geocities.com/benjconway79/pictures/water2.png)
At least I can't complain that the time or builder limit was too tight! I even had enough time and builders to screw up and still pass it.
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At least he was generous with the # of builders for "Water Cascade"!
Hmm, that level didn't make me want to go off on a rant at all, even though it took a good number of tries. There's really nothing cheap about the level.
If something works sometimes (the stair trick, as you claim), you should think about why that is. In this case, it is easy to control. Just make sure the lemming who digs does so at the very last pixel on the previous step, then builds right away. This won't fail you. All the times I lost on that level were from stupid errors on my part.
EDIT: Conway, your links aren't working.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak2/9.png)
Levipak2 - Level 9: No world without you
2 Lems
100% to save
RR: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 climber, 2 builders, 4 bashers, 1 digger
Good: Well, I don't know...
Bad: It's basically identical to the original "No world without you", except you get 2 less builders. Still, very easy. Should probably be much earlier in the pack.
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Just passed 7 and 8! B)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak2/8.png)
Levipak 2, level 8 - Water Cascade
Save: 80/80
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 99
Skills:
Builders: 40
Bashers: 2
Miners: 1
Diggers: 2
Good: Daunting and difficult to pass.
Bad: Everything else. Seriously, the level is neither fun nor decorative. The release rate is annoyingly high, the tricks on the stairs are annoying to pull off and only seem to work sometimes, and all the terrain is taken from an original level. The only imaginative thing is the waterfall, which looks out of place in a level like this.
Sorry for the rant. I was a little inspired by Shvegait's review of Timb03 level5.
I would upload some screenshots of how I solved it, but yahoo's all screwed up again. >:(
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Actually I find it easier to pass than the original 100% cascade solution...delaying the crowd is easier with spare builders than the 10 floaters you get in Cascade :)
The concept of the level was inspired strait from the title from the original level...a cascade :)
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Actually I find it easier to pass than the original 100% cascade solution...delaying the crowd is easier with spare builders than the 10 floaters you get in Cascade :)
Except that on the original 100% Cascade you don't need to delay the crowd at all.........
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Conway, I found it *much* easier to use the digger trick twice (isolate one lemming), and at the end, simply use a miner, build to the right, and use direct-drop (use the 2nd basher to stop the final builder). Much less pain...
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I got passed Level 7 :) . The trick works. I'll have to remember to use this in some levels if I get stuck hehe. I failed the 10th level I only managed to save about 5 or 6 lemmings. I didn't know there was a trap at the end of the level then suddenly it started killing my lemmings and I didn't save the percentage I needed. The 9th level has good scenery and so does the 8th.
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Shveg, I hadn't thought of that! The solution I used wasn't that difficult is principle, I just managed to mess it up a bit the time I passed it, so the screenshot looks quite messy.
I haven't had much of a look at level 10 yet . . .
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I passed the 9th level but i'm having trouble passing Ventral Maintenance. I hope someone can kindly PM me the solution if they can :)
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Level 10 should be straitforward but difficult to pull off.
It requires somewhat precision,as well as clever thinking on how to save the maximum possible amount from the second group.
Because I don't want to upset people doing everything right and messing all up at the end: There's a trap hidden right before the exit.
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I spotted that trap when you sent me the level over msn. I failed the level that time. I'll pass it one day.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak2/10.png)
Levipak2 - Level 10: Ventral Maintenance
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 70
Percentage: 87%
Time: 3 minutes
Release Rate: 1
Skills: 1 floater,1 blocker,15 builders,22 bashers
Good: Cool scenery and cool trick like placing a hidden trap infront of the exit
Bad: Level can sometimes be annoying
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Nous avons finissont!
Erm, what's the French for "What pack shall we do now"?
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I don't know what the french for "What pack shall we do now" is. We are reviewing conway12 now. Conway wanted us to review it after we finished doing Leviathan's second levelpak.
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Good: ... cool trick like placing a hidden trap infront of the exit
Hidden traps now fall under the realm of "cool trick"?
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway12/1.png)
Conway12 - Level 1: Let's play Lemmings!!!
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 5 of each
Good: Cool multi-task level requiring you to optimize because of the tight time limit.
Bad: The floating exit top on the water looks odd (because it's in front of the water). That's about it.
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It was a good trick to use hehe
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway12/2.png)
Conway12 - Level 2: Castle of Symmetry
Number of Lemmings: 20
To be saved: 18
Percentage: 90%
Release Rate: 30
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,2 bombers,2 blockers,20 builders,10 bashers,10 miners,4 diggers
Good: Nice symmetrical design
Bad: Level can sometimes be annoying
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I think the exit on top of the water in level 1 is to trick you
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I though that too. I knew that wasn't the exit you had to reach. Has anybody been able to pass Level 3?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway12/3.png)
Conway12 - Level 3: Lems of New York
Number of Lemmings: 30
To be saved: 100%
RR: 1
Time: 5 mins
Skills: 6 floaters,1 bomber,2 blockers,20 builders,3 bashers,2 miners,1 digger
Good: Some good scenery,title suits the scenery
Bad: Reaching the exit can be annoying
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Nobody else seems to be touching this topic. Well I can review Level 4. Who could review Level 5 :P?
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway12/4.png)
Conway12 - Level 4: The Great wall of Lemmingland
Number of Lemmings: 20
To be saved: 20
Release Rate: 01
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 2 builders,14 bashers
Good: Has a good amount of scenery and a good trick
Bad: Level can be annoying especially at the start trying to bash into the wall
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Maybe their just busy ;P
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway12/5.png)
Conway12 - Level 5: The honeycomb
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 80
RR: 20
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 5 bombers, 1 blocker, 10 builders, 7 bashers, 4 miners, 2 diggers
Good: Some good scenery as all the parts on each side are accurate and match each other. Also a good solution where you have 1 group save another.
Bad: Time limit a bit frustrating
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I would love to review some levels but I won't,as I haven't managed to beat even a single level on this pack...
Any clues or solutions would be welcome :)
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Anyone have any ideas on level 6? Is a glitch involved, or maybe just reeeeally good timing?
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Thanks for your reviews so far!
JM, please could you tell me how you passed level 4? I just want to make sure you haven't found a backroute.
I've noticed as well that level 1 has a slightly easier solution than I first intended. I'm not really bothered since it's the first level in the pack and it's a pretty hard level to begin with. Shvegait, please could you tell me how you passed it? I have a feeling there are a few different solutions.
Leviathan, I'll take that as a compliment! B) Thanks! Most of the levels require good timing, level 3 especailly. Level 2 is fairly straightforard. Level 4 requires a few basher tricks. Level 5 just requires you to know the rules of navigating the grid using limited skills.
Shvegait, there is no trick involved in level 6. You just need to time a few bombers. Hint: The great thing is that you also have a generous supply of blockers, so if a bomber is obviously going to turn around early, you can block him. If you try to time each bomber and only block them when you know they're going to turn, you should save a few blockers for when they're needed.
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I thought I spotted a shortcut in this level but there is a compressor...
I managed to get trough the piece of wall I'm supposed to go trough but when they come to the second set of holes the lems turn around.I tried bombing that piece that turns the lemmings around but it only gets the lems deeper into trouble.I think I know where to put the 2 builders too...maybe I misplaced the last bomber 1 pixel or so,I'll check it out.
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I haven't managed to pass Level 6. Anybody able to review it?
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I think I know what to do.
But not now, I have some other things to do.
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I'll try and pass Level 6 later if possible :P
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I thought I spotted a shortcut in this level but there is a compressor...
More like 5 compressors O_o
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway12/6.png)
Conway12 - Level 6: Deeper Underground
Number of Lemmings: 54
To be saved: 74%
Release Rate: 60
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 floater,10 bombers,10 blockers, 2 builders
Good: The scenery and also the tunnels in the ground make the scenery
Bad: Timing the bombers exactly gets annoying
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway12/7.png)
Conway12 - Level 7: Which one will you find?
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 72/80
RR: 18
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,2 floaters,15 bombers,10 blockers,27 builders,18 bashers,15 miners,10 diggers
Good: A rather challenging level. 1 exit possible to reach and 1 impossible to reach
Bad: Time limit too long. You can complete level in 6 minutes and save 100%. Also you could cut off a few bashers to make the level harder.
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Actually, there are three exits and they are all possible to reach.
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I only found two exits. On was upside-down and blocked by steel areas. I'll review Level 8.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway12/8.png)
Conway12 - Level 8: Jungle Lems
Number of Lemmings: 4
To be saved: 4
Release Rate: 80
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 climber,1 floater,10 bombers,10 blockers,10 builders,6 bashers,2 miners,2 diggers
Good: Cool scenery and multiple tasks
Bad: Level can be annoying like when you have to check every lemming every second to make sure they dont die. We got bombers and blockers when we don't need them.
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I solved Level 7 immediately: When I looked though the level, I saw the red pixel at the right. I knew it must have been a hidden object, and my guess was right: a working exit.
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I passed Level 9 :)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway12/9.png)
Conway12 - Level 9: Pillars of Success
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 80
Release Rate: 20
Time: 4 minutes
Skills:1 floater,10 builders,5 bashers
Good: Most of the terrain creates good scenery and a good amount of tools are used in the level
Bad: The start of the level can be sometimes annoying
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You're not playing by the rules, JM! You can't review two level in a row.
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Sorry Conway. Can someone else review Level 10?
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The last guest who posted here wasn't me....maybe it's time to move on to "the guest".....
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Why not just register?
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Yeah register :)
You know there's more than one guest around :P
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Aah I've completed Conway12 It's excellent. I reviewed some levels of this pack. I'll review the 10th ;P
I seem to be calling myself guest by accident sometimes but I have to remember to call myself MC Marshy
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway12/10.png)
Conway12 - Level 10: A-MAZE-ING!!!
Number of Lemmings: 20
To be saved: 20
RR: 01
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,75 builders
Good: A challenging and confusing level
Bad: Couldn't the level be a bit more harder if you cut off a few builders
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How is it possible to save the second group and to use the bottom leftmost exit?
I managed to save 75% on this level :)
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I saved 50% on the level. With one of the groups you will have to use the climber. Good job Leviathan saving 75% :)
It is a rather challenging level and one of my favourite levels of the &#A0;pack. Conway12 is now reviewed. I hope it's ok if we can review Steaver's levelpak. That 1 is S370PAK1.dat
We already have the screenshots for the pack. If you check Shvegait's page containing the screenshots, Steaver's levels are S3701PAK1
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/s370pak1/1.png)
s370pak1 Level 1 - Goodbye My Lemmings
Save: 72/75
Time: 4 minutes
RR: 65
Skills: 15 builders, 2 of everything else.
Good: A reasonably simple level to begin with, but you still need to look closely at the terrain to find the solution.
Bad: The design is almost too simple (reminiscent of some of my early levels!), and the amount of straight building doesn't help.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/s370pak1/2.png)
S370Pak1 - Level 2: I Have A Trick Up My Sleeve
80 Lems
66% to save
RR: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 15 builders
Good: Hmm, well, you have to be careful at the end.
Bad: Straight building. Very easy. (I saved 75% just trying it once.) What's the trick?
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Bad: Straight building. Very easy. (I saved 75% just trying it once.) What's the trick?
I don't know. But it's good to keep in mind that for the novice, even something like direct-drop can possibly be a trick.
(After all, since very few people have a precise understanding of the workings of lemmings and all its implications, most if not all of us learn by patterns, starting from the archetypical ones imparted by the first 7 levels of rating Fun. Tricks for the most part are basically patterns of higher sophistication, arrived thru some combination of careful observation, creative thinking, and of course, word of mouth from other people.)
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This pack is interesting....only 2 levels aren't 100%able. (2 and 6)
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But ccexplore, you don't even need direct drop. My solution had 2 separate bridges starting from the 2 separate platforms. (This is easy to do since you basically have a constant flow of lemmings.)
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I also saved 75% on Level 2.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/s370pak1/3.png)
s370pak1 - Level 3: What an Evil Level!
Number of Lemmings: 45
To be saved: 45
Release Rate: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: All with 8 except basher
Good: Some nice scenery and a good level where you have to break through a wall without using bashers
Bad: Timit could be cut shorter. I finished the level with 2:01 left on the clock. There's not really anything else negative I can say about this level.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/s370pak1/4.png)
S370Pak1 - Level 4: Mt. Lemming
50 Lems
100% to save
RR: 87
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 0 miners, 1 of everything else
Good: Cool short level where you have to think about managing the groups with limited tools.
Bad: I have no idea what the intended solution is, but it's possible to pass with just 2 tools.
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I completed the 4th Level using 1 digger,1 basher,1 climber,1 floater n 1 builder.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/s370pak1/5.png)
s370pak1 - Level 5: Climber's Explosion
Number of Lemmings: 73
To be saved: 97%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers, 1 bomber,1 blocker, 5 builders, 1 basher ,1 miner
Good: Good scenery, uses a good amount of tools and is overall a cool level
Bad: Level not too hard, Also you can complete the level in just 2 minutes
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An interesting thing about Climber's Explosion is it's possible to pass without climbers.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/s370pak1/6.png)
S370pak1 level 6 - 347 MY 5H0R75
Save: 43/57
Time: 1 minute
RR: 35
Skills:
Climbers: 10
Floaters: 10
Bombers: 10
Good: Not much. The 1337 title is slightly original, but I still haven't decided if it's in a good way or a bad way.
Bad: A pretty pointless remake of a boring Genesis/Megadrive level.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/s370pak1/7.png)
S370Pak1 - Level 7: E Tuh'd Keja Y Cred, Eteud
1 Lem
100% to save
RR: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 15 builders, 15 bashers, 15 miners
Good: Looks intimidating at first. You apparently have to go down to go up. But...
Bad: I think I remember hearing Steaver say this level required a ton of precision and such, but whatever his intended solution is has been compromised by a direct-drop route.
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&#A0;Bad: A pretty pointless remake of a boring Genesis/Megadrive level.
Which one are you thinking of? That level looks like "Turn around young lemmings", which is in the normal game; I can't see any Genesis level it's similar to.
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Yeah, sorry. That's the one I was referring to.
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Right :) Mind you, I've done a remake of that level too, so Steaver's in good company.......
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Cheers Conway. I passed Level 5 without using climbers.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/s370pak1/8.png)
s370pak1 - Level 8: The Warp Room
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 100%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 3 climbers, 13 builders, 1 basher, 3 miners, 2 diggers
Good: Uses good task like sending 1 lemming to rescue a group of lemmings, the scenery is also cool
Bad: Time limit is far too long, It can take just 3-4 minutes to finish the level
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What's next? How about ISteve09?
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geoo89 just finished his first pack, so we should do that.
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I have an idea :P
Let's do Isteve09 then do geeo89's levelpak :)
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That will give people time to do geoo89's levels, so fine with me.
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Indeed it will B)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve09/1.png)
Isteve09 - Level 1: Wood Puzzle
Number of Lemmings: 30
To be saved: 90%
Release Rate: 70
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 bomber , 1 blocker ,1 builder
Good: A nice tricky level to start off the levelpak, the scenery is cool
Bad: 3 minutes is a bit too high, it can take just a minute to pass the level
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Wow, these levels look great! Shame I'm on my brother's computer (Without permission :devil:), I can't play them.
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They sure do. I can't review the second level because it's against the rules to review two levels in a row.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve09/2.png)
Isteve09 - Level 2: Level F. Random Terrian pieces
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 80%
Release Rate: 80
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 99 blockers, 1 of eveything else
Good: Great scenery. ;) Nice simple puzzle for early in the pack. The 80% target makes makes it seem like one of those get-past-the-trap-by-making-a-clump levels, but it really isn't.
Bad: The time limit is way too high. I did it in 1:12.
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You can also save more than 80% of the lemmings.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve09/3.png)
Isteve09 level 3 - A Beast IV of a Level
Save: 76/80
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 50
Skills:
Climbers, Floaters, Bombers, Blockers: 1
Builders: 0
Bashers, Miners, Diggers: 10
Good: A nice, challenging version of an old level. The lack of builders really makes you think about how to best use the other skills.
Bad: The amount of time it takes to bash through all the trees is boring.
For a little extra challenge, try saving 100%.
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When I passed the level I only let 1 lemming die. It took me 4 minutes to pass the level.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve09/4.png)
Isteve09 - Level 4: Undermined
Number of Lemmings: 40
To be saved: 80%
Release Rate: 20
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers,10 floaters,10 miners
Good: The design of the level is good and similar to A trapdoor above the rest from Anthpck3.dat but with miners.
Bad: Why save 80%? It's possible to save 100% in the level and you can complete the level in just 3 minutes
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Hmm.. Ok.. It seems that now EVERY level has its time limit criticized. (Just look at the past several reviews, except Conway's.) If a level gives more time than you need, it just means that the challenge isn't in the time limit. That doesn't make the time limit "bad". The only time I think a time limit could be "bad" is if, say, you had a level called "Just 2 minutes..." and you really only needed 1. The focus is on the time here, and that part of it was undermined (although really this just means there probably is a backroute.)
It's actually relatively *rare* for the time limit to be the focus of designing a level. You're also forgetting one thing: an intentionally high time limit can mask a level's solution. Say you had a really convoluted level that gave you 8 minutes, but the only way to pass the level was to use some trick at the start of the level, and you could win in 1. Setting the time limit to 1 minute would make the level's solution more obvious and takes away from the level. So consider that a time limit can also be *too low* if the time is unimportant. Sometimes those 1 minute time limits give a lot more away than intended...
Just wanted to comment on this. I think it's silly to say an 8 minute time limit is bad on a level that you can complete in 7 minutes. Come on!
(I'm mainly posting this to encourage more variety in the reviews...)
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Wait, Undermined is 100%able? I didn't think that was possible... mind messaging my your solution, JM?
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What's the intended solution, Steve? I also used a solution that could have given 100%, but I two lemmings went the other way.
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Hmm.. Ok.. It seems that now EVERY level has its time limit criticized. (Just look at the past several reviews, except Conway's.) If a level gives more time than you need, it just means that the challenge isn't in the time limit. That doesn't make the time limit "bad". The only time I think a time limit could be "bad" is if, say, you had a level called "Just 2 minutes..." and you really only needed 1. The focus is on the time here, and that part of it was undermined (although really this just means there probably is a backroute.)
I agree; and similarly, I think it's silly the way JM always criticises the amount required to save. The challenge is to save the amount that actually is required, and if you can work out how to save more, that's a bonus.
Also, on many levels the amount to save doesn't matter at all. For example, many of the Fun levels. You can save all but 2 with the two-blocker method, so the save requirement could be anywhere between 2 and all but 2 without affecting the difficulty.
Choosing a nice round number is often a good way to mask the solution -- like Shvegait was saying with time, but even more so. If a designer always required the exact maximum, then if you reach a level that requires all but 2, you know that the solution will involve losing 2, and that can be a big hint.
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I'll PM it to you Steve. I've also passed the 5th level but I'm not allowed to review it.
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I've also passed the 5th level but I'm not allowed to review it.
Just as well, now you have some time to think about how to write better reviews for #6. ;)
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I'm already thinking about how to write a great review for 6. So far the only level I can't pass is Level 9. I can pass the rest. Has anybody else been able to pass the 5th level?
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I'm still stuck on level 5. Does it use the push-lemmings-through-wall-using-blocker trick?
edit: Well I've just passed level 6, and realized that Stever's The Impossible Room (Cheapo Lemmings Plus set 'Evil' level 15) totally rips it off! Either that or Steve's level is a ripoff of Stever's. Or maybe they both had a very similar idea and level layout.
Still stuck on 5 . . .
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Steaver ripped it off Insane Steve, as he pointed out here (http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=level_id;action=display;num=1089206801).
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He certainly did.
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If you're stuck on Level 5, I suggest looking carefully at the title.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve09/5.png)
ISteve09 - Level 5: The Razor's Edge (Part 3)
10 Lems
70% to save
RR: 50
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 5 builders
Good: Cool trick involved, extending on the previous Razor's Edge levels.
Bad: It felt just a little bit too contrived. (Or... the title gave too much away, for me.)
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I saved 80% on Level 5
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve09/6.png)
Isteve09 - Level 6: NO MAS!
Number of Lemmings: 5
To be saved: 5
RR: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: All with 5 but builder and digger
Good: You have to figure out how to reach the exit without using builders, the "NO MAS" text makes the level look cool
Bad: The fire trap placed on the right is nothing to do with the puzzle,the "NO MAS" text is irrelevant to the level
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I saved 80% on Level 5
How did you save 80%? (Wingdings I guess) I'm thinking that it may be a backroute.
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Bad: The fire trap placed on the right is nothing to do with the puzzle
Yeah, but think how dull the level would look without it.
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Yeah. you could argue the "No m&#E1;s" text is irrelevant to the level also... But it makes it cooler :P
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It certainly does. What does No mas mean?
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Even thought it's a ripoff, I actually prefer Stever's version of NO MAS. It makes you save the crowd without making them all climbers and the time limit is a lot tighter.
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No mas means "no more" in Spanish, I believe. (Although I can't help but wonder if this is really grammatically correct Spanish or just a word-by-word "translation" of an English phrase.)
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thanks ccexplore. I don't know a lot of spanish but I'm sure Insane Steve knows some. He also made A JUGAR! which means "to play" in spanish. Hmm that's all the spanish I could find in his levels. So who's passed Level 7?
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A jugar! is Spanish for "Let's play" -- a idiomatic way to say "Let's [verb]!" in Spanish is to place "a" in front of the infinitive (ending in ar, er, or ir) form of a verb.
No mas is "no mas" -- No more, so to speak. As for Steaver's Impossible Room, I think I remember an MSN conversation a while back (years ago) where Steaver asked something about refining and remaking a level of mine in Cheapo... and looking back at it, I suppose that was it. Steaver always had a strange problem with giving other people credit for levels, if I remember right. Although that thread seems to be more proof of the "drop the lemming through the one pixel floor in Cheapo" glitch. I remember showing him the level, and he went and made almost the exact same level for the Cheap Challenge.
Anyways, I see where the 100% in Undermined comes from -- my solution doesn't allow any miners to stop themselves, so a few of them go through the brick and die. Thanks to Conway and JM for their response.
80% on Razor's Edge 3 seerms even less feasible... I know you can do it with 6 builders... but not 5 though. Maybe something could be done with my solution to refine it? I don't know.
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Out of curiosity, does Razor's Edge 3 use the 'push lemmings through wall with blocker' trick?
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It doesn't use that trick. There's another trick for when you make a lemming a climber he can climb up the wall and without falling he just grabs onto the platform.
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80% on Razor's Edge 3 seerms even less feasible... I know you can do it with 6 builders... but not 5 though. Maybe something could be done with my solution to refine it? I don't know.
I have to play the level to see, but I would not rule it out as impossible at this point (ie. I think it could work), let's just say that. I'll test it out when I'm off from work.
A warning though: don't lie about solving a level that you didn't solve. I know enough about the game to be 99.999% sure what will work and what doesn't, especially if you explain your solution to me. Of course, I do trust everyone at this point, and I'm confident we'll never need to worry about this ever. ;)
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Out of curiosity, does Razor's Edge 3 use the 'push lemmings through wall with blocker' trick?
Conway, think carefully about the title... and look back at, erm, previous levels if you have to.
It doesn't use that trick. There's another trick for when you make a lemming a climber he can climb up the wall and without falling he just grabs onto the platform.
I'm not exactly sure what you're describing, but you shouldn't need this to save 70%. I'm guessing your trick is what lets you save one more, though.
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My trick lets you save one more :)
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I have to play the level to see, but I would not rule it out as impossible at this point (ie. I think it could work), let's just say that. &#A0;I'll test it out when I'm off from work.
I have now confirmed that 80% is possible on that level. Also, although JM's wording is slightly vague, it does match what I did, so I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about, in case there were ever any doubts. ;)
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That's the only way I was able to pass the level. I also passed the level after "NO MAS" . On the levelpak I'm basically stuck on the 9th level.
If anyone needs help on Level 7 and Level 8 just e-mail me at thetransplants2@hotmail.com then I can send you the hints :)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve09/7.png)
Isteve09 - Level 7: Requiem in a Minor
Number of Lemmings: 40
Save: 70%
RR: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 3 climbers,1 floater,1, bomber,1 blocker,2 builders,1 basher,1 miner
Good: Uses a nice smart trick,miner creates a tunnel with basher below helping to create tunnel
Bad: If you could cut off 1 climber the level would be harder
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Hmmmmmmm, that's a backroute also -- I see how your route is done, but mine requires, at least if I remember right, all the tasks. Especially the 3 climbers.
It doesn't appear to be that hard to fix -- nor is fixing it going to be a aesthetic nightmare.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve09/8.png)
Isteve01 level 8 - ?
Save: 58/60
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 99
Skills:
Climbers: 1
Floaters: 1
Bombers: 2
Blockers: 2
Builders: 20
Miners: 20
Good: Probably the best of the pack. A small and clever design that takes some thought to navigate. Also a strangely appropriate title.
Bad: The release rate doesn't need to be so high. It doesn't make it any easier or harder. Also, you can save 100% without too much dificulty.
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Hmm, that trick in Level 7 looks familiar.
I once thought up a level using almost that exact same trick before I ever saw that level. &#A0;The level was much longer, though. &#A0;The miner/basher trick was just the second half of it.
The biggest difference between my trick and this one is that my idea placed the exit in a "room" within the wall. Once the basher and miner were finished, you had bomb about halfway up the miner's tunnel so that the lemmings would drop down into the "room" housing the exit.
Unfortunately, I don't have Cheapo or LemEdit right now, so don't expect a copy of my version anytime soon.
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This may be very obtuse of me, but I really don't see how Insane Steve is proposing to fix Level 7; surely if it can be done with three climbers at all it can be done with two?
....but then, if his solution requires all the tasks, I clearly am missing something, because I have no idea what use the floater could be.
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I passed Level 7 using just two climbers. When the first lemming started to walk up the path the miner built i placed a builder, a few of the lemmings fell but I still saved more than 70%. I could save 75%.
Btw one interesting thing about Level 8 is that the terrain looks like a question mark. I saved 96% and I didn't use up all the miners and builders. Has anybody been able to pass the 9th level?
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Btw one interesting thing about Level 8 is that the terrain looks like a question mark.
That's why the title is "?" :P
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Yep. Cool level.
Has anybody been able to pass level 9?
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Here is my intended solution to "Requiem in A Minor":
First lemming climb-bombs, somewhere below the exit platform, although this bomb has to be rather precise. Next two lemmings are also made climbers. First climber bashes, next is turned, builds to the exit platform, turns, and mines at a rather precise point. Basher is made a floater (not sure if this is required), and blocks almost immediately upon hitting the floor. Miner should mine into the blocker and turn, and free the crowd. One of the crowd needs to build to the other part of the tunnel before the miner fully breaches the floor (why you only need 70% -- if I put some steel there, the level could require 95%).
I could make another somewhat deeper water trap, like the one on the left, but deep enough to catch a basher that goes directly into the wall.
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Aha! :D
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That's what I did originally with level 7, but later I found a solution that saves a lot more and doesn't require the basher.
Lems 1 and 2 climb, 1 bombs in the same place as in Steve's solution, 2 mines in his hole. At an appropriate time, appoint a climber to climb, turn back through the tunnel being mined, and build to the exit and turn. When he reaches the end of the tunnel (a step or two past the miner), make him block to turn the miner. If timed and placed well, the rest should be obvious . . .
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I used the basher when I passed the level. What pack are we reviewing after this levelpak?
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I haven't passed it yet. It would be easier with more builders.
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You're essenitally given the bare minimum of builders for the level.
3 for the upper right, 7 for both the bottom two parts. The top left must be done without builders.
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Can someone give me what the skills, initial RR, and #save/#out is for level 9? (I'm still at work.)
I'm just really curious because only after sneaking a peek at Shvegait's screenshot did I realize level 9 was that lovely multitasking level incorporating 4 levels from original Lemmings. I always thought the level would be just about multitasking 4 known levels, I didn't realize there's more to it, as is apparently the case since no one seemed to have solved it yet?
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After some sketching and so forth, I think I have a solution that should work within the number of skills given and have no more died than the amount you need to save. Of course, it can be very hard to keep track of skills on paper, so it's quite possible I lost track of something somewhere which would render a complication to my solution. I'm also somewhat worried about how long it'd take to do the upper-right, although I imagine it can't be worse than the lower-left or lower-right which should be the bottleneck. Anyway, there's nothing else I can do now but wait and try it out tonight and see (and probably get disappointed that what I have in mind fails ;)). No glitches necessary as far as I can tell.
I do find myself having (just) enough builders at this point. You will of course not succeed if you stick purely to the exact way you did each original Lemmings level, but that is obviously unnecessary here.
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Ok.
Save 70/80
RR 5
3 minutes
6 climbers, 0 floaters, 3 bombers, 10 blockers, 17 builders, 2 bashers, 5 miners, 1 digger.
The solutions to the top two levels are a bit unorthodox. I have passed it, though, so it IS possible, albeit somewhat annoying to execute.
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I haven't had time to try level 9 because I just spent half an hour trying to get 39/40 on level 7, but I got it. :)
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I looked at level 9. I figured out how to do it... but it's just too much mult-itasking.
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Yeah, I'm close to having it solved. The difficulty is pretty much purely in the multitasking. I'm guessing I would end up writing the review for this level, unless my solution-in-the-executing runs out of time (we'll see, and even if it does, it'll just be a matter of doing some stuff sooner).
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve09/9.png)
Isteve01 level 9 - Honey, I shrunk the Levels...
Save: 70/80
Time: 3 minutes
RR: 5
Skills:
Climbers: 6
Bombers: 3
Blockers: 10
Builders: 17
Bashers: 2
Miners: 5
Diggers: 1
Good: Elegant and effective level design, putting a new twist on not 1, but 4 of the original Lemmings levels. Cute title. Fair choice of skill distribution, release rate, number to save and time limit (although I would've cut down 1 or 2 blockers at a minimum, given the forgiving release rate).
Bad: The difficulty of the level is pretty much purely in the execution, namely managing the multitasking, which really just boils down to memorizing timing and therefore, practice and patience (as you retry and retry). Other than that, planning out the solution itself takes a little work but is overall fairly straightforward and doesn't take too much thought, especially since much of the original levels' solution concepts still apply.
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I looked at level 9. I figured out how to do it... but it's just too much mult-itasking.
The multi-tasking is somewhat annoying but not as bad as it could be. Especially since you have more than sufficient blockers and can lose quite a few to pass the level. Figuring out the maximum you can save is of course another matter.
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(although I would've cut down 1 or 2 blockers at a minimum, given the forgiving release rate)
In fact, I think I'd say that given the generous (but reasonable for multitasking I guess) RR, the level would be more satisfying if there were, for example, only half as many blockers, half as many climbers, and just 2 minutes.
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I will hoepfully pass Level 9. It's a very lovely level that is split into 4 levels from the original lemmings. I can pass the 10th level of the pack. I can't wait till Insane Steve releases his 10th levelpak. I found Level 9 annoying but it's a pretty good level. If anyone has any competition levels I would love them sent to me :)
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ccexplore, for your review, it should be pack ISteve09, but I'm sure you know that and it should be obvious based on context. Plus you can't edit it.. oh well :P
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve09/10.png)
ISteve09 - Level 10: Not My Hardest 10th Level
20 Lems
90% to save
RR: 95
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 of each
Good: Fun little 1-of-each level that uses one trick that's sort of cool.
Bad: It's not your hardest 10th level! The left and right sides are very straightforward.
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It's not the hardest level in the pack. The easiest level in the pack is probably Level 6 "NO MAS!". I like the design of Level 10. So what pack is to be reviewed next? Geeo89's levelpak,One of Juanjo's packs,Anatol's pack,Another of Garjen's packs,another of Tumble Weed's packs,Another of Hubbart's packs or maybe another of Shvegait's packs?
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I haven't had time to try level 9 because I just spent half an hour trying to get 39/40 on level 7, but I got it. :)
39/40 in level 7? That's interesting! Are you going to share your findings?
edit: Unfortunately I won't be able to participate much right now if we do Geoo's new pack. This one will probably take a few weeks to get through. I'd be happy to do any other pack though. Maybe one of Jaunjo's.
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Juanjo's 1st levelpak is the target
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39/40 in level 7? That's interesting! Are you going to share your findings?
Here it is:
Make the first two lemmings climbers. Bomb the first one starting about three bricks below the exit platform. Make the first one build to the right near the edge of the hole. He should build to the platform and turn around. Make him mine when he reaches the left end of the bridge. (Now for the hard part) Make one of the other lemmings bash roughly when the miner is level with the silver bricks. It depends on where the bomber hole is, so just keep trying. If done correctly, they should stop each other. Make a lemming build up to the miner tunnel.
If you really want to get that to work then you will probably have to try several times. What really makes it take time though is that the important part occurs well into the solution.
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39/40 in Level 7? I never thought that was possible. Thanks guest for posting it here. Now that Isteve09 is over Me and Conway thought about reviewing one of juanjo's levelpaks. Juanjo1n is the next pack to review. Who's passed levels from the pack?
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ccexplore, for your review, it should be pack ISteve09,
Oops. I copied and pasted that portion from Conway's review of level 8, and apparently he made a typo there.
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He accidentally put Isteve01. Don't worry ccexplore we all make mistakes hehe
Have you played any of juanjo's levels?
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So what pack is to be reviewed next? Geeo89's levelpak,One of Juanjo's packs,Anatol's pack,Another of Garjen's packs,another of Tumble Weed's packs,Another of Hubbart's packs or maybe another of Shvegait's packs?
I wouldn't mind my first levelpak reviewed (Isupck02), it'll give you guys more time to finsh Geoo89's one. ;P
Then again, there aren't any screenshots so it might not be such a good idea. :-(
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Why is your first pack called Isupck02?
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Because it's in reality my second pack, my first has not been uploaded, because I am unable to do so at this moment in time.
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I think he explained it before. Something about how they're not really his first levels, but they're just the first pack that is fully done in LemEdit or something...
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We are reviewing juanjo1n.dat Juanjo's first levelpak :)
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And after that, let's do ISUpck02.
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Ok then.
juanjo1n.dat Level 1 -- Vamos Parriba!
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/1.png)
Save 40/40
Release rate 1
4 minutes
57 builders, 15 bashers
Good: A nice warm up level that uses a somewhat clever basher trick. I like the Spanish level titles and the bizarre number of builders you get.
Bad: It's fairly straightforward, and gets repetative after a while.
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Some pretty cool design. I could pass the level. I'm stuck on the second level.
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7000+ on the Lemmings Level List Game. Of course, that one has the disadvantage of being able to reach a dead end. We still haven't reviewed the XMas/Holiday Lemmings levels, though, and undoubtedly some of the version-specific levels...
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Off topic, but I just noticed that this thread has been viewed over 10000 times! I don't think any other thread even came close.
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This thread is also closing in on 1000 replies.
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7000+ on the Lemmings Level List Game. Of course, that one has the disadvantage of being able to reach a dead end. We still haven't reviewed the XMas/Holiday Lemmings levels, though, and undoubtedly some of the version-specific levels...
We also haven't reviewed levels from the other Lemmings games (e.g. Lemmings 2, The Lemmings Chronicles, Lemmings 3D, Lemmings Revolution, etc.)
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juanjo1n.dat Level 2 -- No es tan dificil!
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/2.png)
Save 10/10
Release rate 1
5 minutes
6 builders, 2 bashers, 9 miners
Good: Good scenery, I like the letters. The three entrances make the level look better. Nice and simple second level. There is plenty of time and a few extra skills so you don't have to start over if you mess up a little. The precision isn't so bad because you can pause the game and look at where a lemming is; if he's in the wrong place you can unpause and he will walk a bit and then give you another chance.
Bad: Mining at a precise point could get annoying.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/3.png)
Juanjo1n - Level 3: Date prisa o muere!
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 97%
Release Rate: 80
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 bombers,2 blockers,4 builders,6 bashers
Good: A nice amount of tools and some good level design
Bad: Checking each side to see what each lemming is doing can get annoying
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The titles for Juanjo's levels and the designs are pretty good although I haven't passed all the levels.
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Can someone who knows Spanish translate the titles? I'm wondering what they are in English, and Babelfish is useless. :)
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juanjo1n.dat Level 4 -- 2 posibilidades.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/4.png)
Save 2/2
Release rate 1
4 minutes
2 climbers, 7 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner
Good: It's possible to reach both exits. The scenery on the right side of the level is pretty good.
Bad: The left side is ugly. It is obvious that the left exit was intended. The right exit is easier, faster, and uses way fewer skills. This is where it starts to become evident that this pack isn't going to get much harder.
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I'm not a native Spanish speaker so these are just rough translations, but they should be good enough. If someone has a correction, please make it.
Level 1 - Vamos parriba! -> Vamos para arriba! -> Let's go up!
Level 2 - No es tan dificil! -> It's not that hard!
Level 3 - Date prisa o muere! -> Make haste or die!
Level 4 - 2 posibilidades -> 2 possibilities
Level 5 - En Grecia -> In Greece
Level 6 - En un minuto... -> In a minute...
Level 7 - Los lemmings fantasmas -> The ghost/ly (phantasmal) lemmings
Level 8 - Las 3 montanas -> The 3 mountains
Level 9 - Veeeeeeenga! -> Come onnnnn!
Level 10 - Puzzle atractivo -> Attractive puzzle
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Well, let's not jump to that assumption yet. It's a shame you can't just shuffle the positions of the levels in the pak's about, that way it would be easy to sort out a proper difficulity curve.
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The levels in this pack all seem to be at about the same difficulty level. (To me anyways)
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It's very rarely "easy" to sort out a "proper" difficulty curve; what's easy to one person can be difficult to another, even when they're just as good at solving in general. And it's doubly hard when you're the creator, since you never get to see the levels from an outsider's point of view; even if you forget the solution and have to solve them for yourself, you approach them knowing things about your style and why you will have put certain parts where; you can never get the experience someone else has in solving the level.
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It's a shame you can't just shuffle the positions of the levels in the pak's about
I'm actually working on something that does that.
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It's very rarely "easy" to sort out a "proper" difficulty curve; what's easy to one person can be difficult to another, even when they're just as good at solving in general. And it's doubly hard when you're the creator, since you never get to see the levels from an outsider's point of view; even if you forget the solution and have to solve them for yourself, you approach them knowing things about your style and why you will have put certain parts where; you can never get the experience someone else has in solving the level.
Yeah, that is a very good point, and true aswell. It's easy to get a general gist of one (Perhaps not every level is harder then the last, but the last few levels are a mile away from the first few), but for solution based levels, it's hard to do a commercial quality one.
I'm actually working on something that does that.
Really? Great! I wish you luck.
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I'm actually working on something that does that.
We already have something to do that, it's called LemEdit. :P
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We already have something to do that, it's called LemEdit. :P
Yes, but using lemedit to do that can be painstaking.
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Really? Great! I wish you luck.
Thanks. I'm pretty close to getting it to work... the last level always ends up corrupted...
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It works, now I just have to make it more user friendly. ;)
I'll finish it sometime tonight.
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It's in the file portal and is called paksort. Be sure to put it in the same directory as the file you want it to read. Here is what it does:
1) Asks for the name of the file it should read.
2) Tells you how many levels are in the pack.
3) Asks what each level in the new pack should be.
4) Asks for the name of the new pack.
5) Saves it in the order you specified.
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I should probably mention this:
If you save to a file that already exists, it will overwrite it.
The only error checking it does is testing if the read file exists. If your computer explodes it's not my fault. ;P
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I'll have to look carefully at this program. Anyway who's passed the 5th level of Juanjo1n?
Btw Shvegait you need to get the screenshots for Isupck02.dat as we are reviewing it after we have finished reviewing Juanjo's levelpak.
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I'll get to it when we get to it...
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/5.png)
Juanjo1n - Level 5: En Grecia
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,2 floaters,80 bombers,3 builders,2 bashers,3 miners,2 diggers
Good: Good use of the gold pillar set, cool title
Bad: Having 80 bombers is pointless
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/6.png)
Jaunjo1n level 6 - En un minuto...
Save: 73/80
Time: 1 minute
RR: 1
Skills:
Climbers: 10
Bombers: 10
Good: A short and concise level that doesn't take long to pass.
Bad: Way too easy for this late in the pack. The only trick is knowing approximately where to bomb and remembering to turn up the release rate.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/7.png)
Juanjo1n - Level 7: Los lemmings fantasmas
Number of Lemmings: 25
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 99
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 25 climbers,25 floaters,1 builder
Good: A nice tricky level with tight time limit
Bad: Turning all the lemmings into floaters can get annoying if they start to die
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The level would be better if you had to make the lemmings do things in the steel tunnel ;)
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Anyone passed the 8th level?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/8.png)
Juanjo1n - Level 8: Las 3 montanas
Number of Lemmings: 70
Save: 85%
Release Rate: 01
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 3 bulders, 2 bashers
Good: Good scenery. Nice puzzle, one of the best in the pack. The precision is at the beginning.
Bad: The precision isn't bad but it's still annoying.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/9.png)
Juanjo1n - Level 9: Veeeeeeenga!
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 96%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 3 builders, 2 blockers
Good: You have to figure out which exit to go to
Bad: Turning the lemming into a builder when he falls on to the edge can get annoying
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Hmm haven't passed all the levels of this pack yet. great names but who's passed the last level ;P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/10.png)
Jaunjo1n level 10 - Puzzle Atractivo
Save: 80/80
Time: 3 minutes
RR: 1
Skills:
Climbers: 10
Floaters: 10
Blockers: 1
Builders: 1
Bashers: 35
Diggers: 1
Good: An interesting solution which is fun to get through. Also there are a few useless skills to throw you off if you're trying to figure it out.
Bad: It's more of a trick than a puzzle, isn't it?
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:agree:
It's more of a trick. It didn't puzzle me I knew how to pass the level.
Juanjo's levels have some interesting tricks and titles in them. The designs of the levels are also interesting. His packs further on after this pack are also interesting but some of the titles are english. Isupck02 was wasn't it? Isupck01 should be good when it comes out but I like Isupck02 :P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/juanjo1n/10.png)
That is my idea of a well designed level. :D
It's the kind of level that I'd expect to find in the original game.
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I agree. It somehow does have an original ONML look to it. I don't see what numbers you're talking about, but then again, maybe they're not in the screen shot.
Could we review one of my packs next? Or is there another in the line up already?
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Conway, you keep misspelling Juanjo's name as Jaunjo. Just thought you should know :P
Timballisto: Isu's "second" pack is next. Plus we've already reviewed 3 of your packs (out of 4?)
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Timbalisto, you can see the number 21 to the left of Juano's sixth level. It's written in blocks.
Shvegait, thanks for pointing that out! :-[
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Plus we've already reviewed 3 of your packs (out of 4?)
Oh yeah. True. Very true. For some reason this puts things into a better perspective. Never mind then.
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I don't know. The original game didn't use many tricks, just combinations of the basic rules.
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I think he meant in terms of design, i.e. appearance.
Though if so, I don't think it *quite* matches the standard I'd expect of most of the original levels.
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It's hard to compare since it's in ONML graphics. It's at least as well designed as most ONML levels, in my opinion.
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I'm sure by "original", the comparison is made with the levels in the ONML game, not Lemmings.
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It's the kind of level that I'd expect to find in the original game.
Maybe it's just the fact that the bricks graphics set was used. Look at level 6 for example, another brick level. Except for those numbers at the bottom left and the broken chain, the level could easily have made an appearance as an ONML level.
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I'm sure by "original", the comparison is made with the levels in the ONML game, not Lemmings.
Yeah, I was comparing it to ONML. I never really liked the brick set very much, but that level looks good.
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Mindless have you made any custlemm levels?
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Mindless have you made any custlemm levels?
None that are worth mentioning. I'm afraid I'm somewhat lacking in creativity.
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You could still release them to let us try them out :)
I'm sure somebody will say a positive thing about each level
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isupck02/1.png)
Isupck02 - Level 1: Catastrophical phenomena
Number of Lemmings: 50
To be saved: 90%
Release Rate: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: All with 5 but climber and floater
Good: Nice use of the bubble graphics, great scenery
Bad: Some of the skills aren't required to pass the level
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So,where can I download Isu's second pack?
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I hope you're happy I gave you the levelpak over msn messenger :)
Need a Custlemm levelpak that you can't find? Ask me :P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isupck02/2.png)
Isupck02 - Level 2: The box
Number of Lemmings: 11
To be saved: 90% (10 lems)
Release Rate: 80
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 climber,1 digger,1 miner,1 basher
Good: Cool little level,nice twist with the form of the exit
Bad: Very easy level and level design would look much cooler if the level was centered better :)
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The exit looks cool. The levels get harder further on in the pack.
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I've past about half of this pack's levels now :)
I came very close to the "I'm A.L." level but my lemmings keep splatting,so I still miss one piece of the puzzle on that.
I don't have any clue on "no need for the bomb squad"...
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isupck02/3.png)
Isupck02 - Level 3: Everybody Turn Left!
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 80 miners
Good: A nice take-on of a genesis level
Bad: Clicking the miners repeatedly gets tedious
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isupck02/4.png)
Isupck02 - Level 4: Mass Homicide
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 20%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 15 floaters,15 bombers,15 blockers,15 builders
Good: Cool looking level that looks intimidating at first
Bad: Very much of the terrain isn't used,20% to save is a way too low amount (I saved something about 80% without doing much effort) hence this level is way too easy :)
BTW,I can't do anything about the small image,it's uploaded that way :P
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My apologies, but the way the terrain is set up, my method for capturing screenshots doesn't work. If someone has the will to make a full-size one, feel free, and I can put it up. But I don't have infinity time, so I just took a screenshot of the preview.
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Ah, I see.
You need another way to make screenshots. Recall that in LemEdit, instead of just scrolling, you can explicitly type in where you want to scroll the level view's x position to. It is the box labeled "Sp:".
Since the screen width is 320 pixels, this means all you have to do is:
1) enter 0 as the value for "Sp:" (or, scroll to extreme left), make screen capture
2) enter 320 as the value for "Sp:" make screen capture, join it immediate right of previous screenshot
3) repeat step #2 with the values 640 and 960.
4) The next number would've been 1280, but because the total visible width of a level is only 1584, LemEdit would convert this last screenshot to start from 1264. Keep that in mind as you append this last screenshot to the full screenshot. It shouldn't be difficult if you preset the full screenshot bitmap's width to 1584, that way you just need to right-justify the 1264 screenshot.
5) Do the usual beautifying like cropping etc.
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http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/img/levelshots/
I can make screenshots of any non-special Lemmings level rather quickly and acurately. It's just a matter of me knowing who wants what and when.
Edit: Note that I number levels from 0 to 9 instead of 1 to 10.
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Oh, yeah, ccexplore. I wasn't even thinking that I can use LemEdit2 to take screenshots. It's pretty quick and easy too, for these maximum size levels. The single disadvantage is that you can't capture different frames of animated objects, but that's not a huge deal.
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BTW,I can't do anything about the small image,it's uploaded that way :P
Level 4 of Timballisto's 4th levelpak has a very small image aswell and I can't do a thing about it although we have reviewed it.
I've played this levelpak and I'm stuck on Level 7. I hope nobody minds PM me the solution :)
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Isupck02 - Level 3: Everybody Turn Left!
Bad: Clicking the miners repeatedly gets tedious
It can be passed with 10 miners, maybe even fewer.
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I passed it with less than 80 miners when I did the level. Thanks Ahribar for pointing that out :P
Leviathan: I passed Level 4 saving 85% of the lemmings. The main reason the level was easy was because Isu was having a bad day.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isupck02/5.png)
Isupck02 Level 5 - No need for the bomb squad
Save: 48/50
Time: 3 minutes
RR: 20
Skills:
Bombers: 2
Blokers: 2
Builders: 10
Bashers: 1
Diggers: 1
Good: A new take on an original level that makes you consider alternative routes.
Bad: Perhaps too straightforward. Then again, I had already passed the original version this way.
edit: Yippie!!! 900 posts! B)
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The main reason the level was easy was because Isu was having a bad day.
Well I did mention that a in another topic :P. My intended solution to level 4 actually does explain the 20%. However, because of the style there was an irremovable backroute. In the updated set, I have removed the backroute by changing the style.
And level 7 is brilliant, well, at least I think it is. I might give the solution through PM, although I feel kinda evil at the moment, so I probably wont. ;) ;D
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Just passed 6 and 7. 7 is a fun level!
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isupck02/6.png)
Isupck02 Level 6 - Fellow heroes
Save: 93% out of 80 lems
Time: 2 minutes
RR: 1
Skills: one of each
Good:Nice level that isn't so straitforward,took me a while to figure it out.I also like the design.
Bad:One of the exits isn't used,as well as a few skills.And ow yes,95% is possible within just one minute :)
BTW,I've passed the bomb squad level :)
Clever solution :P
I passed al levels now except from 9 and 10 :)
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I'm stuck on Levels 7 and higher. Anybody got any hints?
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I'm not going to try 8 and 9 because they just seem too tedious. For level 10, try saving 100%. For me that was easier than trying to lose one lemming. (Yeah I know, I'm weird.) I think I passed level 7, but I don't remember enough to give hints. I'll try it later.
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I've just passed level 8. It's not that tedious, there's just a bit of precision involved.
9 seems to be just a remake of I am A.T, although I like the graphics better than in the original. I'm still trying to pass it.
For level 7, think about the backroute in Stepping Stones.
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I don't know what was intended for level 7, but I just found a solution that I think could have given 100%. The only reason I didn't actually save 100% was because I didn't feel like trying it again. Hmmm....I'll try it again after 8 and 9.
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I've just passed the entire pack, except level 9. I gave up on 9. Level 10 is easy to save 100%, but it is just as easy to use the bomber and kill one. What's clever about it is that it looks like a continue-mining-through-the-bridge level, but it's actually much simpler.
I can't imagine how you'd save 100% in level 7, though.
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There IS a backroute to level 10. I must upload the updated version of the pack soon. (Damn Namco making Tekken 5 far too good >:()
And 9 is extremely difficult compared to the cheapo version. I don't know why, but it just seems to be easier to make pixel precise moves in cheapo.
100% in level 7? I don't think so.
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100% in level 7? I don't think so.
You wanna bet? ;) I'll go make some more attempts....
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Well, I did it. The reason it took so many attempts was because of all the refinements I made to the basic idea. The final solution was actually quite easy to execute, I got it on my first try. It did use a glitch. The reason I'm not going to explain it is because of one of the tricks (not the glitch). The trick is used in one of my levels....and it still took me forever to figure out that I could apply it.
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Conway I know about the backroute in Stepping Stones. When I place my first builder on Level 7 it doesn't cover up any of the gaps and when I use a second builder the lemming starts to climb through the small pipe and then I can't free my lemmings. I'm also stuck on the levels further especially Level 9. Do you have the solution for Level 7-10 please?
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I recommend attempting them in this order: 10,8,7,9.
Level 10 just looks intimidating at first, but it really isn't that bad.
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I PM'd the solution to 7 to JM.
Guest, 100% may be possible, but it's not any easier to find (and excecute) than the intended solution, is it?
And I think Conway has found the backroute in 10...
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Well according to guest, the 100% solution to level 7 is fairly easy to execute, but it apparently uses an obscure trick.
Might as well get the ball rolling again . . .
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isupck02/7.png)
Isupck02 level 7 - Pipeworks of the Metric System
Save: 49/50
Time: 4 minutes
RR: 15
Skills:
Climbers: 1
Floaters: 4
Bombers: 1
Blockers: 1
Builders: 2
Bashers: 3
Miners: 2
Diggers: 2
Good: Can take a while to find the route. Good design too.
Bad: Apparently there's a 100% solution, that I don't know about! O_o
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For some reason, the images aren't showing...
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Yeah, the server that hosts the pictures is down at the moment. Not much I can do about it, but it should be back up soon. Just keep following the normal template and they'll show up when the server's back up.
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I can see them.
And guest, I think I've figured out the 100% thing in level 7. I'm just trying it out.
edit: It seems I need about 10 more seconds for it to work.
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Well according to guest, the 100% solution to level 7 is fairly easy to execute, but it apparently uses an obscure trick.
Ummm.... actually the trick isn't that odd. The trick in my level is based on it but is a lot weirder. So it would be okay to explain it. I'll give Conway a chance first though.
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And guest, I think I've figured out the 100% thing in level 7. I'm just trying it out.
edit: It seems I need about 10 more seconds for it to work.
You're on the right track. That's where I was before I figured it all out.
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I guess there are actually two tricks, but one is much weirder than the other.
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Did it! I'll send you my solution if you give me your email address.
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I got 100% on level 7 from the first time I played it...it doesn't seem weird at all unless freeing a blocker is seen as a weird trick :)
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My email address is real this time.
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Freeing a blocker!? That is obviously different from my solution. Could you send it to me?
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Oh, I think I get it. Send to me anyways. I'm still curious.
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If it is what I think it is then..... I can't believe I missed that!
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I'm still missing it. Hmmmm
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Here's my 100% solution in wingdings:
Block the first lemming when he almost reaches the bubble pit.
Let one lem climb up the left pipe and also make him a floater.
Let the lemming fall and go towards the trap (it doesn't work) and let him climb up the next wall.In the meantime free the blocker with a miner and set the RR to 99.
Then the climber climbs another pipe and hits his head,make him build to the right so he reaches the platform.Make him bash and go up the top pipe.
When the lemming is almost above the exit,make him dig down,fall and dig down again about 6 pixels,make him build to turn around and when he turned around,make him mine down and when he's just a little below the level where the other lems are trapped,make him bash.The basher must stop when he reaches the other lems,but should be below them a few pixels or one lem will drown.
As all the lemmings go towards the exit,the climber climbs up the pit but hits his head and also goes into the exit.
100% saved.
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Hmm, you didn't mention how you saved the blocker or how you trapped the crowd. Here's how I did it:
Lem1 digs where he lands, Lem2 turns and climbs,
floats just before he lands. As soon as Lem2 is out,
RR=99. Make the digger bash out to the floor of the
pool, and the crowd won't die.
Lem2: Build on the very edge and bash to reach the
ceiling. Mine down and dig/build to turn him at the
right moment and mine into the pit to create a path
for the others. Bash if necessary.
If he built on the edge originally, he will climb
the wall and fall back down. That's what I did, but
it's probably possible for him to climb back up and go
around again in time.
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Those were both very similar, but they both seemed like they would be harder to execute and would take longer than my solution. Here goes:
#1 digs shortly after he lands so you don't have to worry about lemmings splatting. When #2 gets in the pit and turns around, make him an athlete. Make a lemming mine in the pit at some point to make a dent in the left side so that a climber won't be able to go up (Sort of a trick I guess). Set the RR to 99. After #2 turns around, make him build near the edge of the pipe. When the digger is close to the level of the bottom of the water make him bash (the water glitch). Make #2 bash through the pipe to get on the roofy thing. Make #2 dig 7 strokes roughly above the left edge of the exit, then make him build (The trick. The lemming will build on thin air and then turn around.). Shortly after impact, mine. Make #2 bash at the level of the bottom of the water. The crowd is saved and #2 climbs to the miner hole and then turns around and is saved. All with about 53 seconds to spare. The end.
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It's very simple how I contained the crowd:
You don't need to contain the crowd: the first piece of bubbles in the pool doesn't work completely.The blocker is released by a miner and all lems simply fall into the pool unharmed.Be carefull because the right set of bubbles does work.
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Whoa!! How did the Z-order of those bubbles get all the way up to 29!!? I don't know what the trap is supposed to do, maybe it was intentional to have the trigger area too high.
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It's very simple how I contained the crowd:
You don't need to contain the crowd: the first piece of bubbles in the pool doesn't work completely.The blocker is released by a miner and all lems simply fall into the pool unharmed.Be carefull because the right set of bubbles does work.
Interesting . . . You might want to fix that, Isu. Unless it's intentional, of course.
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I've passed level 10 now too :)
It uses a very neat trick I also use in my "hang and no life" level for my new pack :)
The only level I can't pass from this pack is level 9...
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isupck02/8.png)
Isupck02 level 8 - Constructive criticism.
Save: 49/50
Time: 3 minutes
RR: 20
Skills: 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 4 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger
Good: Good scenery (Yeah, I know it's a remake).
Bad: Ummm.. this is way too easy for an 8th level. The hardest part is the small amount of precision.
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I got Reply #1000 and I didn't even notice!
---------------
Maybe we should review level 10 before level 9.
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I think that's against the rules guest. You're supposed to review the levels of the pack in order.
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Maybe this could be an exception. Level 9 is hard.
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Has anyone even passed level 9?
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Nope. Isu should hopefully have the solution for it. If Isu reads this can you please PM me the solution to Level 9.
After this levelpak would it be okay to review GARJEN04.dat ?
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I can almost pass level 9 but I still miss one big piece of the puzzle...everything goes very well in the beginning but towards the end everything goes wrong :(
If you make 1 mistake in the level,you can start all over again.
EDIT: I'm sure I know the sollution perfectly,but it's EXTREMELY difficult to pull off.It starts with the first digger needing to be pixel-precise...and from then on everything should go fine untill towards the end...the second group of lemmings must meet the first group perfectly on time...
I'm sure I can pas it but I'm just way too frustrated to try it again right now...
Conclusions:the RR must be set perfectly,the first digger must be pixel precise and the rest of the diggers need to be set very accurately too...
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After this levelpak would it be okay to review GARJEN04.dat ?
We were going to review geoo89's pack after people had had enough time. Is that okay?
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Gah! 57%! Part of the problem is that custlemm sometimes doesn't assign skills after unpausing with the mouse button held down. I'll see if I can do it without relying on that.
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62%! What a frustrating amount to save! I'm getting closer....
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66%!! I have some schoolwork to do so I'll try again later.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isupck02/9.png)
Isupck02 level 9 - I am A.L (A Lemming)
Save: 55? (68%)/80
Time: 2 minutes
RR: 75
Skills: 3 climbers, 2 floaters, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 40 diggers
Good: Nicely designed remake of a good level, made a little harder; the RR is already set correctly to solve the level (might be a bad point, but I liked that fact anyway)
Bad: Well, I solved it exactly the same way as I solved 'I am A.T' on the Genesis only using one extra floater and the climers to get three more lemmings in (I got 76% that way), and of course the blocker.
I dunno, maybe I did the original version a little more complicatedly than it is? I also placed the first digger pixel precise, and used the builder.
About level 10, I suppose I backdoored it. It wasn't so special and I solved it immediately; also, for the cheapo version (it is a little different), none of the hints matches with my solution (at least IMO).
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isupck02/10.png)
Isupck02 - Level 10: The Angle Angel
Number of Lemmings: 60
Save: 59/60
Release Rate: 30
Time: 3 minutes
Tools: All with 1
Good: Nice scenery, a pretty good title
Bad: Too easy to be the last in the pack
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So,where do we download geoo89's pack ?
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See this link: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/geooPk0.zip
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I almost passed level 1 but ran out of time...got 40% in :)
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Damn...this is the hardest pack I've ever seen...I can't pass a single level of this pack even when doing all the effort I can.
I thought I could beat level 1...untill I saved the max I could (80%) and saw I needed 92%...
Any clues,hints or solutions via PM would be greatly appreciated :)
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Level 1: A simple start
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/1.png)
Skills: No bashers/miners, 5 of all else
Save 23/25
RR 1
Time: 3 minutes
Good: Looks simple to start, until you realise that you need 92%. It then requires a LOT of thought. Has a clever solution, to boot. I like the terrain for some reason.
Bad: If you don't know the trick to passing it, you'll probably never get it. Being the first level in the pack, it may discourage the player (although this pack certainly isn't for novice players, that's for sure).
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I still find it somewhat strange that the level only requires 23/25 instead of 24/25, which isn't all that different.
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I still find it somewhat strange that the level only requires 23/25 instead of 24/25, which isn't all that different.
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No screenshots? :'(
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They are up now. Not sure why Insane Steve didn't put in the link though. You should know by now that if the screenshots aren't there, they will be in a few hours :P
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/2.png)
geooPk0 - Level 2: Everything you don't need
80 Lems
98% to save
RR: 42
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 80 climbers, floaters, bombers, blockers, and builders; 1 basher
Good: Nice level design, very clever trick, fun to play and figure out. :)
Bad: I'd have to say nothing. I didn't find it very hard to pull off, which seems to be the main complaint.
EDIT: Updated for new version.
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I might as well do level 2 since 1 and 2 are the only ones I've actually passed!
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/2.png)
geooPk0, level 2 - Everything you don't need
Save: 79/80
Time: 7 minutes
RR: 42
Skills:
Climbers: 80
Floaters: 80
Bombers: 80
Blockers: 80
Builders: 80
Bashers: 1
Good: A compact design along with some neat tricks. Also the title is very apt.
Bad: Can be slightly annoying to pull off, even when you know the solution.
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Shvegait, your screenshots are made with the old version of the levelpak. You should be using the updated version (http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=level_id;action=display;num=1089136533;start=465#470) which fixed some of the levels (in particular 2,5,8).
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I still find it somewhat strange that the level only requires 23/25 instead of 24/25, which isn't all that different.
The answer is rather simple: I simply didn't think of it.
Alternatively I could say, to make the player incorporate more ways to think of for solving the level. ;)
My main intension was to show up that trick. I had thought this trick could be easily found out logically, and so I placed the level so early.
@Leviathan, it depends on who you want to give hints, to what levels and how far they should go. ;)
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Shvegait, your screenshots are made with the old version of the levelpak. You should be using the updated version (http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=level_id;action=display;num=1089136533;start=465#470) which fixed some of the levels (in particular 2,5,8 ).
My apologies :-[ I've been a bit busy lately and haven't kept up as much as I'd like, but those are fixed now (2, 5, and 8 only. If any of the others were changed for aesthetic or other reasons, let me know and I'll update the shots.)
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No, I only changed those three ones. (In fact, for level 8, there wasn't even a terrain change, I only changed the number of lemmings)
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Bad: If you don't know the trick to passing it, you'll probably never get it.
Isn't this kinda redundant? I mean, a level requiring a trick to pass by definition requires you to figure out the trick (or far less interestingly, require you to hear about the trick from someone else). ;P To say this is bad would imply all levels requiring tricks are bad. ;)
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No, it isn't redundant. Steve's saying that with this particular trick, if you don't know it beforehand you don't have a chance of working it out from the level. Not all tricks are like that -- to take a simple example, the blocker trick on Mayhem 20 (assuming that that level is where you saw it for the first time).
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No, it isn't redundant. Steve's saying that with this particular trick, if you don't know it beforehand you don't have a chance of working it out from the level. Not all tricks are like that -- to take a simple example, the blocker trick on Mayhem 20 (assuming that that level is where you saw it for the first time).
I'm not sure about that particular trick of Mayhem 20. I believe there was actually someone who mentioned in the Tehcnical or Game Help forum that they didn't like that trick much, since they found it "cheap" in the sense that it's so different from what the rest of the game has taught you about blockers. In that sense, it's really not too different from the trick in question here. Indeed, one can argue the geoo89 trick here actually is less surprising given the Mayhem 20 trick is already relatively well-known.
And in my e-mail to you weeks ago, I already explained how most tricks and even some glitches can, at least in theory, come about by probing deeper into the game mechanics more precisely, and finding conditions where your current understanding of the game fail to give you a definite prediction, or finding a fine point about the game mechanics that you can recreate using a different, previously unthought of combination of moves. (Though at least for glitches, in practice their discovery often has a serendipital element.)
One might argue though that, perhaps with the Mayhem 20 trick, one is more likely to accidentally stumbled upon the discovery than here, where you specifically have to make a move that, had the trick not work, the move would be completely counterproductive.
On the other hand, surely at least a few of us must have observed that when you attempt to free a blocker by bashing underneath, you don't always have to remove the entire swath of ground underneath both feet of the blocker in order to free the blocker. This observation can conceivably lead one down logically to a path resulting in discovery of the trick used for geoo89's level.
So, in short, I disagree that the trick cannot be worked out. All the more evident when in fact this level has already been solved by a couple of people as compared with a few other levels, in particular level 10. Certainly compared with something more bizarre like the miner glitch, this is at most a borderline glitch, and hardly defies expectations.
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It just requires you to know a little bit about specific game mechanics, I think that's what he's saying. Although, if you're playing geoo's pack in the first place, you better know all about these mechanics. ;)
I don't think calling this a bad thing is necessarily a fair assessment of the level. You can deduce that you need to create steps, and you don't really have that many tools to do so. I think you can at least take some guesses to figure out... I'd never seen the specific trick before, but knowing the mechanics of the different tools surely helped. I think the same can be said about a TON of user-created levels though (not just geoo's). Would you be able to figure out many of these levels without ever playing the original Lemmings (or ONML or Cheapo, etc.)? It's easier to build on a foundation once you have one. The level progression of the original Lemmings did a good job with that, imo.
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I just thought I should mention that the levels in this pack should be played with custlem2 or nocdlem2. I doesn't make much of a difference in 1 and 2 but from now on everyone should be playing these levels with the adjusted fall height.
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I'm not sure about that particular trick of Mayhem 20. &#A0;I believe there was actually someone who mentioned in the Tehcnical or Game Help forum that they didn't like that trick much, since they found it "cheap" in the sense that it's so different from what the rest of the game has taught you about blockers.
I see that point; and note that though I will try to give a fair reply to your points about the Mayhem 20 trick compared with geoo89's trick, I haven't actually played his level and I don't know what that trick is.
I do think the Mayhem 20 trick "non-cheap", not just because you might discover it by accident, but because on that level you can work out that that's what must be done given the skills you have. (There is a different trick, used in one of Insane Steve's levels, that I was tempted to cite as my example instead, but I didn't know if you would have seen it.)
From what you say, it sounds like that applies to geoo89's trick too; but I don't know as I haven't seen it. I was just explaining what I think Insane Steve meant with his comment, not necessarily agreeing with it. :D
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I can't even pass any of these levels except Level 9. Can somebody send the solutions for each level?
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I can't even pass level 9 even with the safe fall distance on 63 pixels...I get the lemming in at 0 seconds,but the level fades out before the lemming is actually counted as saved.I made the lem a floater at the lowest possible position near the exit.
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I see that point; and note that though I will try to give a fair reply to your points about the Mayhem 20 trick compared with geoo89's trick,
I don't think Mayhem 20 trick is "cheap" myself, actually I don't think the person actually used that word either. Unfortunately forum search failed to turn up where the post was, all I remember was that the person didn't like levels like that, and he said something to the effect that it defies prior expectations a little too much.
because on that level you can work out that that's what must be done given the skills you have.
I don't seem to rely as much on "let's look at how many skills you're given to help guess your way to the solution" strategy as others, but Shvegait did make a similar point regarding geoo89's level 1. Certainly you don't have to go to a different level to work out what should be done.
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We were going to review geoo89's pack after people had had enough time. Is that okay?
How are people doing with this pack anyway? I never quite understood why guest proposed to review the set so early, when it seems like very few people have completed even half the set yet.
I planned to review level 4, although I imagine that's one of the levels that people are more likely to get, so if absolutely necessary I can hack up a review for level 3 to move things along. I might also do a review for either 8 or 9.
I think JM should not be allowed to do a review for 9 though, since as far as I can tell he only passed the level in CustLemm, which doesn't count.
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After geoo89's pack I thought it would be a good idea to review GARJEN04 by Garjen as his levels have some pretty interesting things in them. I'm basically stuck on the whole pack. Level 3 is really annoying. If anyone has the solutions at each level please PM them to me thanks :)
Btw ccexplore why can't I be allowed to review the 9th level?
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Btw ccexplore why can't I be allowed to review the 9th level?
I'll answer on this one...you're supposed to play the level with Lemedit 2 where the safe fall distance is adjusted...I guess this plays a vital role in level 9...
I can't even pass it with the "normal" Lemedit though :P
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I'm having trouble with the level on Custlemm2. Someday we will be able to pass this levelpak.
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Sorry for not replying sooner. Busy.
Whoa!! How did the Z-order of those bubbles get all the way up to 29!!? I don't know what the trap is supposed to do, maybe it was intentional to have the trigger area too high.
The trap is not supposed to be fake. If it wasn't, I'd add a basher. Because it is, I had to take a basher out. And, what the hell?!? 29?!? Something has seriously gone wrong there.
About level 9, yes, it is very difficult. I decided to port it from cheapo (including the skills and amount to save). And yes, It is supposed to use the same solution as I am A.T, in case you were wondering.
I might have had an update of this pack up if lemedit 2 hadn't kept crashing on me. :-(
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As for Geoo's pack, I know how to pass level 3. It's just very difficult to pull off.
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I might have had an update of this pack up if lemedit 2 hadn't kept crashing on me. :-(
Wow, crashing? Do you really mean crashing?
Or just that it's not getting past the timer check?
If it's just the timer check, I think "guest" uploaded LemEdit3 at some point on Mindless's portal, which should help. Other than that and slowness, I haven't had any serious problems with LemEdit2 on my computer.
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I might have had an update of this pack up if lemedit 2 hadn't kept crashing on me. :-(
Wow, crashing? Do you really mean crashing? Or just that it's not getting past the timer check?
If it's just the timer check, I think "guest" uploaded LemEdit3 at some point on Mindless's portal, which should help. Other than that and slowness, I haven't had any serious problems with LemEdit2 on my computer.
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Conway have you passed Level 3?
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Not yet. Like I said, I know how. I just haven't been tyring it much.
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I would like the solution for the level :)
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lol is wingdings the new 'encryption' of the forums, so we cut and paste into word and change the font to see the text? or is there a simple method? B)
Sorry for not replying sooner. Busy.
The trap is not supposed to be fake. If it wasn't, I'd add a basher. Because it is, I had to take a basher out. And, what the hell?!? 29?!? Something has seriously gone wrong there.
About level 9, yes, it is very difficult. I decided to port it from cheapo (including the skills and amount to save). And yes, It is supposed to use the same solution as I am A.T, in case you were wondering.
I might have had an update of this pack up if lemedit 2 hadn't kept crashing on me. :-(
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The simplest method is to copy and paste into the "quick reply box" below the topic :P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/3.png)
Geoopk0 - Level 3: Crossing Stairs
Number of Lemmings: 40
Save: 40/40
Release Rate: 1
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: All with 10 except climber and builder
Good: Nice scenery, you have to figure out how to complete the level with no builders or climbers, nice title
Bad: Level really annoying after a few failed attempts
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How in the world can you turn around the second group?
Using a blocker would be the answer but how do you turn around the blocker once he's released?
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The simplest method is to copy and paste into the "quick reply box" below the topic &#A0;:P
hehe I should of thought of that. Cheers!
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JM, how did you pass level 3? You're the one who is always asking for the solutions to difficult levels. If you got the solution from somebody else, you shouldn't be allowed to review the level. I apologise of you really did figure it out and pass it in this time. It just seems unlikely.
Leviathan, I'll pm you with how I think it's done.
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I didn't get the solution from somebody. I learnt how to do it myself :)
Conway I'll PM you some clues.
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lol is wingdings the new 'encryption' of the forums, so we cut and paste into word and change the font to see the text? or is there a simple method? B)
I think I invented the wingdings "encryption" for this forum. I still like LemSteven's method of changing the text color to white better, but that doesn't always work since the forum alternate between blue and white for the background color, and you can't set your own background color.
Since I tend to post as guest which doesn't have the quick reply box available, what I usually do is to click on "Quote" (or better, right-click on it and select to open it in a new window). That is effectively the same as having the computer copy and paste the text into the reply box for you, although it will include all the text not just the Wingdings ones, and text that were already being quoted in the original message will not make it to the reply box.
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lol is wingdings the new 'encryption' of the forums, so we cut and paste into word and change the font to see the text? or is there a simple method? B)
I think I invented the wingdings "encryption" for this forum.
Since I tend to post as guest which doesn't have the quick reply box available, what I usually do is to click on "Quote" (or better, right-click on it and select to open it in a new window). That is effectively the same as having the computer copy and paste the text into the reply box for you, although it will include all the text not just the Wingdings ones, and text that were already being quoted in the original message will not make it to the reply box.
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Bah, sorry for the double-post! :sorry:
I'm not sure what happens, but I think there might be a bug in the forum. I think my post went on the next page but after I posted it brought me back to the page I was at (which is no longer the last page since my post created a new page), so it looked like my post didn't make it.
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I usually just copy and paste the wingdings text into notepad.
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How in the world can you turn around the second group?
Using a blocker would be the answer but how do you turn around the blocker once he's released?
I know the answer to that, since I used the same trick in one of my levels.
Here's one way to do it. Dig deep enough to trap the lemmings. Have one turn round and dig/bash under the digger to release him. Have another lemming from the entrance mine down to the same level and bash towards the other basher so that both stop.
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That's what I did, except I used two miners instead of two diggers.
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There are many ways to do that. For example, like this:
First lemming digs down 7-9 pixels, and then blocks. When the lemming is made into a blocker there should be aother lemming on top of it. That should force the second lemming to be on the right side of the blocker. The third lemming digs down 5 pixels pretty close to the blocker and then bashes. The second one (trapped to the right of the blocker) digs 1 or 2 pixels and then bashes to the left.
To view wingdings I select the wingdings part, right click on it, and then click "view selection source".
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Wow, crashing? Do you really mean crashing?
Of course. I don't think it's a problem with lemedit 2, more like a problem with my PC. Whenever I load a certain level my computer decides that it would be a good idea to reset itself. X_X
Damn XP machine.
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And now back to the topic in hand...
I was just following suit with the wingdings encryption. It was to prevent a very possible spoiler.
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Geoo's levelpak is pretty awesome. I mostly love that level that uses VGASPEC4. The extended graphics rock. I think I know how to pass Level 4 but I'll look into it later. I can't review it because reviewing 2 levels in a row is against the rules.
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I mostly love that level that uses VGASPEC4.
O_o Why does it matter that the filename is VGASPEC4 rather than VGASPEC3 or VGASPECX? This is just lame.
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O_o Why does it matter that the filename is VGASPEC4 rather than VGASPEC3 or VGASPECX? &#A0;This is just lame.
I think the reference is that JM is pointing out a level by mentioning the graphics set it uses -- not pointing out VGASPEC4 opposed to another VGASPEC.
And this post seems very unlike ccexplore. Really.
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The IP address is different. Either he's on a different machine or somebody's taking the p***.
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No it really is me. I now notice I apparently managed to put the e-mail address instead of the usual for the name field. X_X
I also just realized I'm reading JM's post totally wrong. I think I was reading
"I mostly love levels that uses VGASPEC4"
When it is actually "love that level that". Now it makes sense.
Clearly I was very distracted at that moment. X_X
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I'm still at work, the IP address could be different due to the setup in the corporate network.
Anyway, maybe I'm better off claiming that the lame post really wasn't mine, since it sounds like people rather believe that. ;P
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I'm used to misreading people's posts and completely making nonsensical replies, so don't worry. ;)
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Please read 'A little bug' in the Forum board to see the purpose of this post.
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Who's passed Level 4?
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I'm still struggling with level 3!!! O_o
edit: Well after about 50 attempts, I've given up on level 3. Fortunately level 4 was a little easier.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/4.png)
Geoopk0 level 4 - Down the Cliff
Save: 48/50
Time: 3 minutes
RR: 75
Skills:
Climbers: 2
Floaters: 1
Bombers: 2
Blockers: 1
Builders: 2
Good: Like all of this pack, a challenge to figure out. And the single trick it uses is comparatively common.
Bad: Should certainly be before level 3. That one was demoralisingly excruciatingly damn near impossible to execute! >:(
(Okay, that's more of a bash (no pun intended) at level 3. I just couldn't think of anything negative to say about 4.)
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For me, the bad on #4 would be that the time limit is not tight enough, unlike the Cheapo version where you need to be a little more multitasked and time-aware.
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I'm trying to pass Level 5 but it's annoying. I know 1 of the tricks you use but it seems tedious trying over and over again. BTW The title of Level 4 is pretty cool.
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I must be missing something on level 4. I just want one hint: Which way?!
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Both. And the only skill I didn't use was the floater.
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Well, obviously down. ;P
I suppose you want to know whether left or right.
EDIT: Well, Conway's hint is even more confusing than mine, so I remove my hint. :P
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I meant which way does the crowd go.
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Left, and down. ;)
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Now I see it. I would have found it much sooner if I hadn't looked at the left side and seen it as impossible. The right side actually "looked" easier. I should have just ignored that and tried both sides at once..... Now the problem is executing it. This seems like another case where holding down the mouse button and unpausing doesn't work (does anyone know why this sometimes doesn't work?!). The problem is that I have to rely on that a lot because my right hand can do slow, controlled motion, and my left hand can do fast, accurate twitches. Grrrr....
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It worked this time. I'm still not sure what the conditions are. It appears to have something to do with clicking somewhere before trying.
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I did need a few tries to successfully solve the level, but it hardly seems to be as pixel-precise as how you're make it out to be......
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I didn't say it was pixel precise, I said that the hold-down-the-mouse-btton-and-unpause thing was hard to get working. My right hand really is bad at timing.
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I try not to rely on that trick. It's not very useful in level 4 anyway.
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I'm getting a little annoyed at this bug!
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I usually click multiple times. For some reason that helps. I think it happens sometimes when you click before pausing.
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I didn't say it was pixel precise, I said that the hold-down-the-mouse-btton-and-unpause thing was hard to get working.
But why would you even need to do that if it doesn't need to be pixel precise?
Especially when you could do unpause-and-then-click without too much lost of precision. Then again, maybe I'm too used to doing just that to not see its difficulties.
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The difficulty is that my right hand doesn't respond as quickly as my left. I really don't know why. Hmmm.... In this case I probably could have held the mouse with both hands because there is no need to pause after the one move that requires some precision...
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As for level 5, I can pass it in custlemm/nocdlem, but in custlemm2/nocdlemm2 the first miner always dies. :-(
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That is exactly why it must be played in custlem2 or nocdlem2, it enforces the intended solution. (I don't know what it is, but I'm pretty sure geoo89 tested all of his levels with the fall distance at 63 (60))
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Actually, I don't remember which version I used when I created the level since it is quite a long time ago, but I checked the complete set and it is possible with CustLem2 too. There's a little trick used (nothing spectacular at all) to shave off a few pixels and get a lower fall that way.
I wasn't sure whether it was really necessary to use the trick, but regarding to Conway's comment it seems to be necessary for solving it using CustLem2 (I suppose you're on the right way btw, Conway).
As for the problem with mouse holding, I think (but I'm not sure) it never works if the next frame the lemmings is already doing a move no skill (except climber, floater, bomber of course) can be given to him (e.g. faller, jumper).
But also, sometimes it doesn't work if it is not such a case.
So, I don't actually know.
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Level 5 seems too tricky.
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Level 5 is a bit tricky, it takes some annoying precision. (for the solution I have in mind at least....)
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I keep failing at Level 5. Bascially it's a version of "There's madness in the method" with 1 climber cut off. Anybody been able to pass it?
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I know ccexplore has, since he told me the solution :P
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Here's what I have so far:
Lem1 mines just before he turns around, lem2 blocks to turn the miner. All lemmings (except the miner!!) survive. Send a climber to bash through to the exit, and build a turning step as soon as he has a way out. Mine to release the crowd. Bash into the small room to release the blocker.
So the question is, how do I save the first miner? Am I close?
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ccexplore could you review Level 5? I can give you the skills etc for you to review it :)
I've been able to pass Level 6 so I can hopefully review that level when 5 is reviewed :)
Hmm I was wondering. Would it be ok to review GARJEN04.dat when we finish reviewing this levelpak?
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Sorry Conway, that isn't close to the solution I know.
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Ahribar: I thought I mentioned it in e-mail, but it turned out the solution I told you about was apparently a backroute, and later geoo89 modified the level to eliminate my solution.
You can get the screenshot for the updated level 5 here (http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/5.png) if you're interested.
I'll leave it to geoo89 to comment on whatever Conway posted. I never bother to try geoo89's intended solution (which he told me) but it didn't sound too hard to figure out or execute.
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.
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Well, in the first version of the level there was a backroute, and this route was similar to the route of the Havoc 5 challenge.
But with the three pixel deep gap in the terrain I made this way impossible.
I think Arhibar is thinking of this route.
Anyway, Conway is with his route, as I supposed, very close. You only need to shave off a few pixels to make the miner survive. Have a look what skills are left after executing your route, and then use one of those at a certain point in your solution. I think now you should be able to find the full solution.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/5.png)
Geoopk0 - Level 5: There's a method in the madness
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 20/20
RR: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 bomber,2 blockers,1 builder,2 bashers,2 miners
Good: A fairly good re-make of a ONML level,good title
Bad: Seems dull after several failed attempts to pass the level
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/6.png)
Geoopk0 - Level 6: Increasing Step Heights
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 85%
RR: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: All with 1 except miner
Good: The scenery looks pretty good with the steps getting larger as the lemmings climb the stairs
Bad: It's annoying timing that bomber
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My understanding is that the intended solution does not involve timing the bomber (there are other timing aspects involved, but not the bomber). You might want to PM geoo89 your solution.
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Geoo89 got my solution. My solution to pass the level involved the bomber. I'll show you a screenshot when I get one. Anyone been able to do Level 7?
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Yes I had already asked him, and in fact, there's a backdoor to the level. I think I'll wait fixing it until the complete set is reviewed, so I can fix also pther levels if more backdoors should exist.
My solution is btw quite a bit harder to pull off then JM's.
As for level 7, it is IMO the level using precision the most times of all levels.
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I haven't been able to beat a single one of these levels! Although I think I have a solution for Level 7, it's just the precision and skill that throws me overboard.
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They are too hard. They are the hardest levels I have played. You can't review Level 9 if you've passed it in the original Custlemm :(
In the other Custlemm versions I fail to pass it. Somebody out there or on this forum has passed Levels 7 and onwards. Well I recommend doing Garjen04.dat after we have finished this levelpak.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/7.png)
Geoopk0 - Level 7: Through the thicket
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 100%
RR: 05
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 5 climbers,5 floaters,5 bombers,5 blockers,15 builders,5 bashers
Good: Fantastic level made with the myvgaspec program,the title suits the level and comes with its own vgaspec file
Bad: It's pretty annoying breaking through the thicket
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Good use of Lemmings 2 tiles there. Well done geo!
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The Lemmings 2 Tiles rock!
I'll try and pass the remaining 3 levels of the pack if possible. Jazzem did you manage Level 8?
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Afraid not :(. I know what you have to do roughly, it's just they way you have to do it so all necessary lemmings are saved that I can't put my finger on. I'll keep trying though.
EDIT: Bah, I managed to save 86%. Getting there...
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I keep losing on Level 10 aswell saving 77% or 80% all the time. I keep failing to save 90% on Level 8. Geoo89 is just a master.
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Argh!
Level 8 is driving me insane! Whatever solution I build, there's always one problem that stops it from working!
Do you enjoy tormenting us Geoo89? :P
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Afraid not :(. I know what you have to do roughly, it's just they way you have to do it so all necessary lemmings are saved that I can't put my finger on. I'll keep trying though.
EDIT: Bah, I managed to save 86%. Getting there...
That's rather intriguing. That level uses a specific glitch/trick, and it's nearly impossible to screw up once you have the intended solution.
So it actually sounds like you're going about it a little differently. Maybe you should PM geoo89 what you're trying to do (even though it looks like it's not working), just in case.
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Argh!
Level 8 is driving me insane! Whatever solution I build, there's always one problem that stops it from working!
Do you enjoy tormenting us Geoo89? :P
Well, I'm used to this especially playing Insane Steve's Hopeless levels.
I think you're on the wrong track with level 8: It is one of the levels using almost no precision or precise timing.
Also for level 10, conventional way to solve it shouldn't work. Remember, it's level 10. :P
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It uses a glitch? So my WIP method was either complete trollop or a potential backroute!
Here's what I've been trying...
Make one of the first lemmings to come out a climber, and then a floater. When he gets to the ground, make sure he builds just under the squasher trap. Meanwhile, make two blockers surronding the lemmings on the second platform they walk on, the closer together the better. Then, when the lone lemming gets to the edge of the wall he is walking on (After turning around because of building directly under the wal), start building a bridge to the left. When it's big enough, bomb the blocker on the right and the lemmings will walk down the path to the left (Although your positioning of the blockers may change this). However, the main problem is getting the builder lemming to turn around, because he will either sink in the liquid or just go to the left side of the level
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I think it shouldn't be possible to solve it that way because (1) you cannot save the climber (2) cannot free both blockers without having at least one of them walking to the left. I'm quite sure that both reasons are correct.
Also, I'd call the glitch/trick for the level rather a trick; the effect is actually expectable.
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I was trying something similar to Jazzem, and if the blockers are close enough that all lemmings are grouped into one, none will walk to the left when you set them free. Still, there's the bother of having to save the climber, which evidently can't be done.
I was also trying the same but having the climber build so he hits his head on the corner below the right-hand blocker, hoping he would leave a tiny ledge for the group to use. Unfortunately this wouldn't work either. :'(
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There must be a way to solve Levels 8-10. I keep losing. I give up on this levelpak. I'm thinking about what levelpak should be reviewed after this one.
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[size=12]Sounds like we might need to temporarily repeal the rule about not allowing the same person to review twice or 3 times in a row...... &#A0;;)
I'm ready to get the reviews out of the way as soon as someone gives the go-ahead, if that's what people would like......[/size]
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Which levels have you passed ccexplore?
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[size=12]I passed all except level 7, which I haven't completed mostly because I lost interest.[/size]
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10 is perticularly hard, just how do you stop so many dying?
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Well done ccexplore :)
EDIT: Passed Level 8 ;D What a trick!
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/8.png)
Geoopk0 - Level 8: Finding a place to stay
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 18/20
Time : 2 minutes
Release Rate: 99
Skills: 1 climber,1 floater,1 bomber,2 blockers,3 builders
Good: Some nice scenery and a very snappy trick never seen before
Bad: If you don't know the trick then the level seems impassable
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Wahey! Congrats for passing.
Now who's doing level 9?
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Somebody said you can't review it unless you've passed it in Custlemm2 :P
Even if you're allowed to review it from passing it Custlemm I can't review it because I'm not allowed to review 2 or more levels in a row.
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EDIT: Passed Level 8 &#A0;;D What a trick!
[size=12]Good job! : thumbs-up :
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/9.png)
Geoopk0 - Level 9: Mission at max-fall 60
Number of Lemmings: 1
Save: 1/1
Time : 1 minute
Release Rate: 1
Skills: 1 of each
Good: First CustLem(2) level using the SuperLemmings feature. &#A0;Really heightens the tension when you have both a short time limit and a clock that runs down twice (or more?) the normal speed.
Maybe it's a bad for some, but for a while, the most straightforward solution will seem to get you the closest to the exit and yet fail; it takes a bit of perseverence to get past that impasse.
Bad: The time limit is very very tight, so even after you know all the tricks needed for the solution you still need some precision to get a successful execution, which together with the SuperLemmings can make things somewhat more annoying than necessaary.
It indirectly requires some knowledge regarding how the miner cannot survive a fall that non-miners normally survive with no problem. &#A0;Not knowing this can conceivably lead some people into a dead-end.
Finally, because initially people didn't realize CustLem2 is intended, many people are less inclined to try again after finishing it on CustLemm.[/size]
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10 is perticularly hard, just how do you stop so many dying?
[size=12]Level 10 also requires a glitch, more obscure than level 8's trick in fact.[/size]
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Finally, because initially people didn't realize CustLem2 is intended, many people are less inclined to try again after finishing it on CustLemm.
I guess, but they could, you know, read the title! Not that people should be expected to know the specific number of the max safe-fall distance (before the +3) of each version of Lemmings... But the non-CustLem2 version of beating the level isn't satisfying at all (you just kind of go..), I don't see why passing it that way would make people not want to play it the real way.
And about the not reviewing 2 or more times in a row, that has been ignored several times in a row for various reasons. If no one's reviewing it and especially if no one is really trying to pass a level anymore, then go ahead and review two.
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[size=12]Well, I'll give it another day I guess. &#A0;At the current rate it looks like no one will solve that level in time. &#A0;Leviathan is the only one who had come close to the glitch involved, and he doesn't remember at all how to repro what he saw.[/size]
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I keep failing at Level 10. Anybody manage to pass it?
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Doesn't look like it. I doubt I will, I know very little about Custlemm/Lemmings glitches, so I'll most probably just encounter it by luck if I ever do it.
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We'll do Garjen04 after the last level of this pack has been reviewed :)
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Who's reviewing Level 10?
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Can anybody give me a clue to 8? I seriously hate this levelpack, yet I have a strange compulsion to want to beat every level in it. :-? I'm still stuck on 5, 6 and 7, but I've put them on hold for now. So . . . any (extremely mild) clues on 8?
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IMO 6 is the easiest out of 5, 6 and 7 (for the moment, there is a backroute allowing 19/20, and it isn't too hard to execute).
For level 8, think of all the ways a blocker can turn lemmings around.
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Thanks, passed it! Of course, I knew about the trick, I just didn't think about it for this level. ;)
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I'm still stuck on Level 10. It impossible to save 90%. I keep saving 80%.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/10.png)
Geoopk0 - Level 10: High-Tech or Low-Tech
Number of Lemmings:40
Save: 90%
RR: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,3 floaters,1 bomber,1 blocker,4 builders,2 bashers,1 digger
Good: A really cool title with some good looking scenery and is fairly puzzling
Bad: The percentage of lemmings needing to be saved is annoying
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[size=12]Doesn't the rule says you have to have solved the level first before you can review it? Your review doesn't sound quite like you actually solved it. That, or you somehow managed to work out a conventional solution which geoo89 might want to hear about.[/size]
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We're onto Garjen 04 now then?
EDIT: Err, these are very, very easy levels.
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Maybe he did work out some way to solve the level by himself. Let's get ready with Garjen 04.
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Maybe he did work out some way to solve the level by himself.
[size=12]
If you had solved the level properly yourself, you'd understand why I'm justifiably suspicious. It doesn't help that the person who used to post as "Guest" has now been posting as "tseug" instead, so we really don't know who posted that review above.
So, I'm discounting the review above and I'm going to post my own, more legitimate review instead. I'll remove this review once I have more reasons to believe the reviewer of level 10 actually solved the level.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/geooPk0/10.png)
Geoopk0 - Level 10: High-Tech or Low-Tech
Number of Lemmings:40
Save: 90%
RR: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,3 floaters,1 bomber,1 blocker,4 builders,2 bashers,1 digger
Good: Compelling level design that makes you choose the correct exit. The title is quite fitting with the level design. The level difficulty fits well with the level position as the last in the pack.
Bad: A rather obscure, extraordinary, and somewhat difficult to execute glitch is required to save the amount needed. Since there are many other approaches that looks viable, the majority of people who doesn't know the glitch would end up getting really stuck as they are continually misled by those other approaches. And once you know the glitch, the level's fairly straightforward except maybe for the execution.[/size]
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There are other guests around the forum ccexplore. Some still use the name guest. I believe your review ccexplore. Maybe the reviewer probably just didn't know you have to pass a level to review it.
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Have we got the images for Garjen 04? I'm ready to review one of the first three levels.
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Garjen04, in my opinion, is a very bad pack to review. Why? Because the levels of this pack are just easier versions of his other levels. (Think of the Fun and early Tricky levels in original Lemmings).
If any of them, 01, 02, or 03 should be reviewed over 04... (we already did 00).
You can see his own personal difficulty ratings and descriptions of his packs on his site:
http://www.garjen.co.uk/Lemmings.php#Packs
We should pick a 4- or 5-star one of those.
Garjen03 would be interesting, with the challenge being to find backroutes to any of the levels. Seems audacious to claim that the entire pack is free of backroutes!
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I think Garjen02 is better. But any pack would be a welcomed break after the last one! :P
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Can anybody give me a clue to 8? I seriously hate this levelpack, yet I have a strange compulsion to want to beat every level in it. :-? I'm still stuck on 5, 6 and 7, but I've put them on hold for now. So . . . any (extremely mild) clues on 8?
I somehow like this attitude. I think the levels you hate most should be the levels you try most (except you hate them for their boringness). ;)
Ah yeah, I updated level 6, it's still the old link (http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/geooPk0.zip)
And btw, I got an avatar (following suit the two 'ex-guests' ;)). Not related to lemmings though.
I think Garjen02 is better. But any pack would be a welcomed break after the last one! :P
Even my second pack? :P
(Probably not, firstly the rules prohobit that, and secondly, you'd need to wait for quite some time for me to complete it.)
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Shall we do Garjen04 then? It has a few hard levels in it.
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You seem to have triple posted, Geoo89! I deleted the other two since they were exactly the same as the first.
I somehow like this attitude. I think the levels you hate most should be the levels you try most (except you hate them for their boringness).
I don't hate any particular level in the pack, I just think it's unnecessary to have so many ultra-difficult levels in one place. Maybe if each level was spread out over a number of packs as the 7th - 10th levels it would be better, but having so many tricks and glitches crammed into a single pack can be a little daunting. And somehow I doubt you'll be able to keep the pace over future levelpacks.
But I don't know; maybe it's just your style. I think you certainly have the most talked about pack on this thread! 8-) It inspires me to want to return to my LemEditing days.
You have a second pack? When's it coming out?
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[size=13] ;D So let's see, we have a vote for garjen04 (JM), one for garjen03 (Shvegait), and one for garjen02 (Conway). So much for consensus. I almost feel like making the situation worse by voting for garjen01...... ::)[/size]
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And somehow I doubt you'll be able to keep the pace over future levelpacks.
[size=13]Careful now, or he might really set out to prove you wrong. ;)[/size]
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And somehow I doubt you'll be able to keep the pace over future levelpacks.
[size=13]Careful now, or he might really set out to prove you wrong. ;)[/size]
I hope he does! ;)
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Oh, after looking at the level pics to jog my memory of the packs, change my vote to Garjen01. :) I haven't played much of Garjen03 yet, I was just saying based on his description of it, that it might be interesting.
Seriously though, JM, Garjen04 is just way too easy! (And is meant to be in fact, but the original levels are more interesting than these easy versions.)
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How about levipak3? I've looked through the pack and it looks good, I haven't tried the levels though.
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I have an idea :P
Let's review Garjen01 and review Levipak3 after Garjen01 has been finished :)
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I thought we weren't reviewing two packs in a row by the same author.
On second thoughts, maybe Garjen03 would be a better pack to review.
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You seem to have triple posted, Geoo89! I deleted the other two since they were exactly the same as the first.
Sorry for that, thanks for deleting them. The forum was lagging; after some time still nothing had happened and I clicked again and later once more. (I gave it up then so I couldn't see the result.)
You have a second pack? When's it coming out?
As I said, you'll need to wait for some time for me to complete it. In fact, I don't know when I'll get ready with it; I won't make any predictions, maybe only a few weeks, maybe a couple of months...
I have ideas for almost all of the levels though, but created only a very few yet.
And somehow I doubt you'll be able to keep the pace over future levelpacks.
Careful now, or he might really set out to prove you wrong. ;)
I'll try to, but Conway's doubt is certainly justified.
For at least pack two I think I'm able to keep the difficulty quite high since I have enough ideas for it: I have a list of 17 tricks/ideas I could use, although some of them seem to be almost as hard to implement into a level as ccexplore's shrugger trick.
In addition I have a little stack of small notes with a couple of ideas. The problem is that some of them were written down quite some ago and therefore maybe nothing special at all, also, for some of them I don't remember what I meant with it since most of my notes are imprecise, and a few of the ideas I already used.
But to be honest, I already considered this when I started editing. We'll see. And since my rate at making levels isn't high either I get time to think about new levels without lowering the rate too much at all.
But I don't know; maybe it's just your style. I think you certainly have the most talked about pack on this thread! 8-) It inspires me to want to return to my LemEditing days.
Nice to hear that. ...which reminds me, I should have some more tries at your levels, I have played only a few of them yet.
And yeah, I'd say it is my style. Tricky, small levels. As I do for Supaplex. ;)
btw, I'd prefer Garjen03 or levipak3 to review.
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I thought we weren't reviewing two packs in a row by the same author.
On second thoughts, maybe Garjen03 would be a better pack to review.
We aren't reviewing two packs in a row by the same author. Garjen01 is one of Garjen's levelpaks and Levipak3 is one of Leviathan's levelpaks. I just took a look at Garjen01 and it seems good to review. Better to review than Garjen04 (no offense to Garjen). So let's do Garjen01 :)
EDIT: Geoo89 we can do Levipak3 when we have finished doing one of Garjen's levelpaks
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Garjen 01 it is then?
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Fine for me,altough level 1 is giving me a headache ;)
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Fine for me,altough level 1 is giving me a headache ;)
Exactly my thoughts for levipak 03! ;)
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Allright,my headache is over :)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/1.png)
Garjen01.dat - Level 1: Three-way Call
Number of Lemmings:60
Save: 100%
RR: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 floater,3 builders and 4 miners
Good:Nice symmetrical design with an a-symmetrical solution you really have to think about and also a good time limit.
Bad:The headache I guess...no,nothing I can really think about :)
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Level looks good. I can't pass all the levels on this pack. Anybody done Level 2?
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Not me. Done a few of the others though.
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Which levels did you pass?
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4 and 5. Very nearly did 3, but managed to make a complete pig's ear of the whole thing just after making the path for the lemmings :(. And, err... To be perfectly honest, I did complete level 8, but by using what is not only the most painfully obvious but also level-destroyingly bad backroute for it. Garjen didn't check the level very carefully!
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4 and 5. Very nearly did 3, but managed to make a complete pig's ear of the whole thing just after making the path for the lemmings :(. And, err... To be perfectly honest, I did complete level 8, but by using what is not only the most painfully obvious but also level-destroyingly bad backroute for it. Garjen didn't check the level very carefully!
Yep,I know what you mean about level 8 ;)
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I can't really pass every level of this pack. Seems hard but sure is a challenge. Anybody done Level 2,3,4 or 5?
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I'm stuck on most levels too but I'll eventually solve a few :)
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I've passed 4-10, but not 2 or 3 yet.
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Level 2 and 3 seem tricky. I can do Levels 4 and 6. I'm not sure how I can pass the other levels but I surely find Level 10 annoying.
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Someone's got to do level 2 sooner or later!
By the way, is it an original level? I'm sure I've seen it before somewhere...
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Nope. Actually it is the same exact level as Garjen00 Level 10 ("Printing Press"). In that level, you get plenty of tools. Here, you get the minimum (or close to it) that you need.
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I tried the second level but I lost a lemming or two. It just seems hard to pull off :(
BTW Shvegait we should review another 1 of your packs sometime in the future :)
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I haven't given garjen01 much of a try, I'll do (try) level 2 after I do level 1.
EDIT: I went through the pack and did 1,5,6,9,10. I think 5,6,9,10 were backroutes. (They all had stuff left over, and lots of time for 5,9,10, and 6 was tricky to pull off)
EDIT2: I went through it again and did 4,7,8. 8 was a backroute (or more accurately, THE backroute ;)). All that remains is 2,3, the dreaded levels of doom in this pack.
EDIT3: Actually, level 3 turned out to be not so bad, except for the hidden trap. The time limit was evidently just there to be scary ;) It was still a bit long though (~5 min). Now for the level that should have been last, the real dreaded level of doom.
An hour and several profanities later.... YESSSSSS!!! I finally did level 2!!
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/2.png)
Garjen01.dat - Level 2: Compression Method 2
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
RR: 1
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 20 climbers, 15 builders, 5 bashers, 2 miners, 2 diggers
Good: A challenging level, and there is plenty of time. It is symmetrical but the solution isn't. It has a great amount of skills.
Bad: This really should have been last.
EDIT: Eeeeewwwww! That hscroll inside the post is ugly!
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I managed to pass the 5th level of the pack. I found Level 3 too long. Level 7 is just impossible for me. Well this is still a good pack to review because Garjen's levels have some interesting designs etc :)
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Have we got the screenshots for these? I may just try level 3 again in a second...
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http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/
There Jazzem :)
It's Garjen01
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Thank you :). Now, to go island jumping!
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/3.png)
Garjen01.dat - Level 3: Island Hopping
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 98%
RR: 10
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 20 builders, 3 bashers, 2 miners,
Good: Looks good for the most part, a reasonable time limit considering the length of the level, and you do have to be fairly strategic.
Bad: Way to put the precision right at the end of the level! Especially a long level! Also, hidden traps should only be used if losing only one lemming won't stop you from winning the lemming-This one does overwise. And just to be picky, the occasional overlap with the terrain looks a bit unprofessional.
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EDIT: Eeeeewwwww! That hscroll inside the post is ugly!
I prefer it to an hscroll on the whole page. ;)
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Also, hidden traps should only be used if losing only one lemming won't stop you from winning the lemming.
An interesting rule. Can I ask why you think that?
(I can't help pointing out that there are a few levels on ONML that come very close to breaking that rule....... and Havoc 19 definitely breaks it.)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/4.png)
Garjen01 - Level 4: Stargazing
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 100%
RR: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 floater,1 blocker,1 bomber,10 builders,1 basher,1 miner,1 digger
Good: The title fits in with the level and the level has good scenery
Bad: Well the level is pretty straightforward
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EDIT: Eeeeewwwww! That hscroll inside the post is ugly!
I prefer it to an hscroll on the whole page. &#A0;;)
I wonder why there's also a vscroll though? That's rather unnecessary.
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Bad: Way to put the precision right at the end of the level! Especially a long level!
Precision? End? The way I did it used almost no precision, what did you do?
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Also, hidden traps should only be used if losing only one lemming won't stop you from winning the lemming.
An interesting rule. Can I ask why you think that?
(I can't help pointing out that there are a few levels on ONML that come very close to breaking that rule....... and Havoc 19 definitely breaks it.)
Simple-It isn't fair. I think hidden traps should be used as a way of changing the way the player thinks about the level, the problem with this level is that simply losing the lemming will result in retrying due to no fault of the player. Otherwise, they could be aware of the trap and start backing up their initial plan. Just me being fussy.
I wonder why there's also a vscroll though? That's rather unnecessary.
I imagine that with long posts, it would simply make the page length too long. Guess it's just there to limit.
Precision? End? The way I did it used almost no precision, what did you do?
I tried going over the arrow rock by building a large bridge, which wasn't easy to aim thanks to the rock hanging from the debris above. I can see another way in doing I now you say that though...
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Heh! I'm back again, it was a long time I didn't post here! A veeeeeery long time! :D
I didn't notice you reviewed one of my level packs until today. Thanks! And yes, my levels are kinda easy to solve... I didn't want to do something too hard... so I guest I did levels too easy...
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I wonder why there's also a vscroll though? &#A0;That's rather unnecessary.
I imagine that with long posts, it would simply make the page length too long. Guess it's just there to limit.
Except my impression is that the vscroll doesn't appear unless the hscroll also appears. :-/
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(I can't help pointing out that there are a few levels on ONML that come very close to breaking that rule....... and Havoc 19 definitely breaks it.)
I'm trying to remember where Havoc 19 has a hidden trap..... :-?
I do know that the icicle trap in ONML levels is often hidden or at least well-disguised, but I think that's more or less the extent of hidden traps in ONML.
I haven't looked at the level in question here, but it sounds like it was a piece of hidden water in the middle of thin air, which definitely is not in style with the official Lemmings and ONML levels.
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I haven't looked at the level in question here, but it sounds like it was a piece of hidden water in the middle of thin air
Um, kindly ignore that part. &#A0;Looks like I confused one post with another. &#A0;Clearly some of my brain cells went very dead this week. :-[ ;)
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Mikepak02 was quite easy Dragonslover. I love "The Invisible Level" . So far Dragonslover since we reviewed your levelpak we then did one of Leviathan's packs,another one of Conway's packs,Steaver's levelpak,Another one of Insane Steve's packs,One of Juanjo's packs,Isu's levelpak,Geoo's levelpak and now we are doing another one of Garjen's packs :)
I've passed Level 5 and 6 but I can't review three levels in a row :o
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I'm ready for both of them, although I'll let someone else do level 5 since I only just did 3. I'll be happy to do 6 though.
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Simple-It isn't fair. I think hidden traps should be used as a way of changing the way the player thinks about the level, the problem with this level is that simply losing the lemming will result in retrying due to no fault of the player. Otherwise, they could be aware of the trap and start backing up their initial plan. Just me being fussy.
No, I think I agree. It's just difficult to tell when I hadn't thought about the issue before.
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I've passed the whole pack, so I can review any level.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/5.png)
Garjen01 - Level 5: Get Deeper and Down
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 100%
RR: 99
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 builder, 1 basher, 3 miners
Good: Good scenery. High RR makes the level a little harder.
Bad: This was easy, and I think (like most of this pack) that my solution was a backroute. (a builder and a miner left over, and it took me less than a minute)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/6.png)
Garjen01 - Level 6: Playing with Fire
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 100%
RR: 99
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 5 builders, 2 bashers
Good: A different take on (almost) the same level.
Bad: Even easier than the previous. The route is too obvious.
tseug, might I ask what your backroute was to Level 5? The way I solved it used all the tools, if I remember correctly, and it took a little time to figure out.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/6.png)
Garjen01 - Level 6: Playing with Fire
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 100%
RR: 99
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 5 builders, 1 basher
Good: Nice use of the skills to make a different challenge, you really have to think about how to do it, and you certainly can't take your skills for granted.
Bad: The same level design twice in a row!?! How cheap is that? Perhaps this should've gone into a different pak. It's also a similar solution to it's prequel...
EDIT: Whoooooops! Sluggish me!
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I passed both levels but on Level 6 I was trying to figure out which route to take and I found it. I have trouble passing Level 7. Level 8 seems fairly easy to pull off but Level 9 and Level 10 are annoying me.
Btw Jazzem you deserve to keep your review of Level 6 there :)
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I wonder why there's also a vscroll though? That's rather unnecessary.
I imagine that with long posts, it would simply make the page length too long. Guess it's just there to limit.
Except my impression is that the vscroll doesn't appear unless the hscroll also appears. :-/
Ah... That'd be an IE problem. ;) A rather annoying one to develop around, I might add.
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@JM: Level 9 has an absurd backroute, level 10 is almost as simple as it looks (at least the backroute I found is...). For level 7, just think about what skills you have.
@Shvegait: I would be interested to know how other people did 5 and 6.
Here's what I did for 5:
1) Last lemming mines in the first dip. This should make the second to last turn around.
2) Make the second to last lemming mine to the right out of the left chamber.
3) Make him bash through the OWW.
The crowd should be freed late enough for the basher to have gotten all the way through.
And 6:
1) #3 builds in the first dip to turn around. (using the third lemming makes step 2 easier)
2) Make #1 build to the right from the left side of the chamber. There should be a space because #3 was removed. #1 should build until he hits the steel.
3) Make #3 bash out of the left chamber.
4) Build across the fire pit.
5) Now it is okay to release the crowd, make a lemming build to the left from the right edge of the chamber.
6) Make #3 bash through the OWW.
Now they should all go to the exit.
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I'm trying to remember where Havoc 19 has a hidden trap..... :?
To answer your question, there are two icicle traps near the bottom of the level, slightly to the right of where the lemmings come out. &#A0;If you start the level and just watch, the lemmings will walk right into the traps.
There are only a handful of other levels that have hidden traps in them, as far as I know. For me, that's a good thing; it drives me crazy when I suddenly get zapped by a hidden trap while playing a level.
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Here's what I did for 5:
1) Last lemming mines in the first dip. This should make the second to last turn around.
2) Make the second to last lemming mine to the right out of the left chamber.
3) Make him bash through the OWW.
The crowd should be freed late enough for the basher to have gotten all the way through.
Ah! I didn't notice that you could free AND turn around a lemming in one step like that. Clever, but undoubtedly unintentional.
Here's my method: Start off the same, except mine at the second dip (don't ask why). Continue the same, except mine lower, so that you land on the metal at the bottom. Build over that, and bash. Mine to free the other group. Actually, I don't even know if this is the way I solved it initially...
And 6:
1) #3 builds in the first dip to turn around. (using the third lemming makes step 2 easier)
2) Make #1 build to the right from the left side of the chamber. There should be a space because #3 was removed. #1 should build until he hits the steel.
3) Make #3 bash out of the left chamber.
4) Build across the fire pit.
5) Now it is okay to release the crowd, make a lemming build to the left from the right edge of the chamber.
6) Make #3 bash through the OWW.
Now they should all go to the exit.
My method (uses all tools) is very straightforward:
1) #1 builds in a dip to turn around.
2) #1 builds over the steel to the left, becomes a floater.
3) #1 builds again to turn around, and is now facing right.
4) Bash through the OWW.
5) Build (2x) over the bottom pit to create a safe passageway for the rest of the crowd.
6) Use your last basher to free the crowd (which is stuck in the right chamber).
Hmm, what is the preferred method of "encryption" on this forum now?
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Ohhh... I completely missed those solutions and found the backroutes instead. :P
The best "encryption" now seems to be color.
----------------
Who is doing level 7?
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I'll review it, since nobody else is.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/7.png)
Garjen01 - Level 7: Stunt Double
Save: 19/20
RR: 50
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 7 builders
Good: Nice, simple-looking design.
Bad: Too easy for this late in the pack. The extra builder and minute don't seem appropriate for a seventh level.
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I wonder why there's also a vscroll though? That's rather unnecessary.
Interesting...... I didn't say that! :P
There are only a handful of other levels that have hidden traps in them, as far as I know. For me, that's a good thing; it drives me crazy when I suddenly get zapped by a hidden trap while playing a level.
I know what you mean; and actually, looking back through my own levels last night, I haven't used hidden traps as often as I'd thought, which is a good thing. Also, I have a system like the original game with easier versions of levels, so the player is generally expected to know where the traps are from the easier version. I only found one level (The Land of Nightmares) that does break Jazzem's rule, and in that level there are definitely reasons why I have to have the trap. (It's a hidden exit level, so the player will be trying many different directions rather than going in one direction only to be hit by a trap at the end. And having one trap makes the player uncertain about whether there will be others, which fits the tone of the level as well as its title. In fact, that trap is invisible rather than hidden -- I like to be evil at times. But I only use it on that one level.)
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I wonder why there's also a vscroll though? That's rather unnecessary.
Interesting...... I didn't say that! :P
What the...!? :-?
Might've been because I quoted you before quoting that. Ah well, no biggie.
Anyone passed level 8? And without using the silly backroute, I mean :P
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I haven't passed Level 8 without using that pathetic backroute. I can do Level 9 which is probably my favourite level in the pack.
Level 10 is annoying me >:(
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Level 10 is a pain, isn't it? I passed it after much smacking my PC monitor (Don't worry, it's only an old, chunky one :P), and even then my solution might have been a backroute.
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Who's passed Level 8 and above?
I know I've done Level 9 but Level 10 is still annoying me.
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I've done 9 and 10, but other then the backroute I have no idea as to how you pass level 8.
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Thanks Jazzem. I'm sure somebody has done Level 8 without using the silly backroute mentioned.
We are doing Levipak3 next are we?
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How do we know that the "silly backroute" is even a backroute? Maybe Gareth thought he was being tricky.
Anyway, if you pass a level with a backroute, you can still review it. It's not like this pack will ever be updated in the future, and any solution you find should count as valid.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/8.png)
Garjen01 - Level 8: The long way round
Save: 50/50
RR: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 3 builders, 5 miners
Good: Has a very nice-looking design; the 'long way round' route has a little puzzle element with only two kinds of skills and the time limit is fairly tight.
Bad: Worst thing is the backroute (?) not going the long way round; but also the (probably) intended route isn't too hard to find out, therefore it might have been placed a little earlier.
And yeah, I'd like Levipak3 to be reviewed next. :)
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I actually thought that myself... It just seems so backroute-like and easy. Then again, I struggle to see how it's possible any other way...
But looks like Geo just proved us wrong! ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/9.png)
Garjen01 - Level 9: We need a blowtorch NOW!
Number of Lemmings: 50
To be saved: 100%
Release Rate: 99
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 floater,5 builders,3 bashers,2 miners,1 digger
Good: The exit is close to the entrance but you have to go the long way round to reach it
Bad: A bit too easy to be this late in the pack
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Let us end our escapade then!
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen01/10.png)
Garjen01 - Level 10: Not as simple as it looks
Number of Lemmings: 50
To be saved: 100%
Release Rate: 99
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 2 bashers, 2 miners
Good: Nice level design, the solution takes some time to figure out, and the release rate adds to the challenge.
Bad: Challenging as it may be, it really doesn't deserve its place as last level in the pack, there are various other levels before that would make a better canidate. It's a very plain looking level too, with little to catch your eye.
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Seems good we've done Garjen01. Now let's move onto Levipak3 ;)
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Well would you know? We can't do level 1 :P. What a wonderful start!
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I can't seem to pass any level on this pack except level 2. I keep trying Level 8 or 9 but I just run out of luck. I keep being out of luck on Level 7 although I find it fairly easy to pull off.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak3/1.png)
LEVIPAK3 - Level 1: Through the breach
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 100%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 40 of everything except blocker
Good: Nice short level for the beginning using a quite interesting trick; the box hanging on a chain looks nice; the time limit give it a little twist if you forget about it and set up the RR too late.
Bad: It seems if you don't know the trick it gets quite difficult to pass.
I solved all the short levels (i.e. 1, 5-8, 10), so I think I maybe should have a try one the longer ones...
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Well done on passing. Could you PM me your solution? I can't figure it out at all.
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I can't seem to pass that level either. I have no idea where to place bashers or anything. I want the solution aswell Geo.
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Regarding levels 9 and 10 of garjen01: How did other people pass those levels? I backrouted both of them. :P
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I've been meaning to look at levipak3 for some time...
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Check your inbox! I'll give you the 10 solution later.
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Level 2 is evil. I think I'll cheat...
EDIT: It makes the level much easier. Is it OK if someone reviews a level like this after looking at it in lemedit?
The current levels that I've completed in this pack: 1,2
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Tseug do not cheat :o
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak3/2.png)
Levipak3 - Level 2: The Lemming Paradox
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 1%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 99 of everything
Good: You have to search for the exit and its not in the spot where an exit is marked :)
Bad: 1% is ridiculous. You can save a lot more than 1%. Even 100%
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Level 3's well designed. Who's up for it?
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I nearly passed it but one of my lemmings died :'(
I passed Level 10.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak3/3.png)
Levipak3 level 3 - The Golden Lem Bridge
Save: 80/80
Time: 6 minutes
RR: 99
Skills:
Builders: 33
Bashers: 7
Miners: 5
Diggers: 5
Good: The tighter skills limit makes you find the best solution.
Bad: The design is slightly boring, and it's annoying that the exits are sitting on air.
Also, the bridge isn't exactly golden, is it? ;)
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I couldn't think of a better title for the level ::)
So far I've passed Level 2 and 10 in the pack.
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couldn't
Don't you mean "can't"?
----------------
Level 10 seems hard to execute...
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The Golden Lem Bridge isn't a good name for the level because the bridge is not gold (no offence to Leviathan) . I can't find a better name for the level. Oh Well That's up to Leviathan ;)
Tseug have you passed any levels from this levelpak?
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I think the real Golden Gate Bridge isn't golden either ;)
For those wondering about level 2 I'll give another hint : the "paradox" stated on both sides of the level is true :)
JM,which version of level 10 did you pass?The one I sent you over MSN or this one in the pack?
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I passed the version I found when I downloaded this levelpak.
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I've passed 1 and 2.
......level 10...oh great, not ANOTHER level that uses that glitch! And what a time limit! bah...
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I've given up on level 1, so any hints would be great!
I'm currently trying 6, which seems very difficult to execute.
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I'll give as small of a hint as I can for level 1:
You only need to use one type of skill.
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On Level 7 I keep failing to save the lemming at the top. I always manage to save the bottom lemming but I usually end up saving the middle lemming. Anyone got any clues how to save the top lemming?
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On Level I keep failing to save the lemming at the top. I always manage to save the bottom lemming but I usually end up saving the middle lemming. Anyone got any clues how to save the top lemming?
I suppose you mean level 7?
There are 2 possibilities,one is my intended solution and one is a nifty backroute someone found out :)
For level 1 I actually find it easier to pull of with RR at 99 from the beginning...
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I just did level 7. The hardest one for me to save was the middle lemming. Here is how to save the top one:
Dig down the first vertical pole. Dig close to the second one and then build to the right after going down 1 pixel.
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Anybody been able to do Level 4?
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couldn't
Don't you mean "can't"?
No, it's not his level. If it was, he *might* be able to choose a better title so there'd be a meaning in saying he can't. As it isn't, we already know he can't choose a better title, but he's saying even if it was his level he couldn't. 8-)
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Well Leviathan probably couldn't think of a better title. If it was my level I probably wouldn't have found a better title. I seem to find Level 4 too hard to pull off. Anyone passed it?
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I saved 66%. It's starting to bug me... But what's really bugging me is... LEVEL 10!! Does it use a glitch or not?
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It uses a glitch. The one that is used in "Need any help from above ?" from Leviathan's 1st pack.
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Yep,it uses the miner glitch...but even then the level isn't very easy :)
To give some kind of "hint" on other levels: all other levels are glitch free :)
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I give up on 4. 71% was the highest I got. I was using the miner glitch for level 10. The only problem is, there's not enough time! There doesn't seem to be any place to build so that the lemming turns around and has enough time. Is there some trick to reduce time? If there isn't, then it must require perfect precision, grrr....
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To give some kind of "hint" on other levels: all other levels are glitch free :)
Even level 1?
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I give up on 4. 71% was the highest I got. I was using the miner glitch for level 10. The only problem is, there's not enough time! There doesn't seem to be any place to build so that the lemming turns around and has enough time. Is there some trick to &#A0;reduce time? If there isn't, then it must require perfect precision, grrr....
Some part which you think is decor,is necessairy to solve the level :)
You need to build at an exact point ;)
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Where is it? Exactly.
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I'd do level 4, but I've already done 3.
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Where is it? Exactly.
I sent you a PM ;)
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OK, I managed to save 76% on Level 4.
(I don't get the exact buliding thing :question )
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak3/4.png)
Levipak3 - Level 4: Gas distribution facility
80 Lems
75% to save
RR: 1
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 1 blocker, 35 builders, 4 bashers, 1 miner, 6 diggers
Good: You have to optimize your route to save the left side.
Bad: It's actually rather straightforward (the easiest route is the most obvious imo) and a bit long.
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I was looking at level 8 and....ugh that's tedious!
I just did it. It was very tedious.
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I also passed Level 8. I find Level 5 too hard to pull off. Anyone passed it?
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Haven't played much of this pack but it sure is difficult. I hope to start work on a new levelpak soon ;)
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I'll give as small of a hint as I can for level 1:
You only need to use one type of skill.
Can you tell me which skill is used? This level's really starting to weird me out! :o
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I'll give as small of a hint as I can for level 1:
You only need to use one type of skill.
Can you tell me which skill is used? This level's really starting to weird me out! &#A0;:o
You can pass the level with 30 bashers (or even less) ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak3/5.png)
Levipak3 - Level 5: Encounter at farpoint
Number of Lemmings: 4
Save: 4/4
Release Rate: 50
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 8 builders,1 basher,1 miner,4 diggers
Good: The design of the level is fairly good and you have to bash through the end of the steel to save the lemmings at the top
Bad: Hmm the level is rather straightforward
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Actually another trick than that is involved normally...could you PM me your solution ;)
It requires digging trough the steel normally.
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Whoops when I bashed through the steel my builders started building on thin air. I thought that was also the build-dig-build-dig trick. I'll just edit my review a bit ;)
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How did you pass level 5, JM?
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When the lemmings at the top start building keep clicking the digger on each until they start digging. Then when they reach the bottom of the steel terrain make them buildings, when they finish you can let them move 1 pixel then start again so keep doing this until they are above the tower and when they fall onto the tower make them dig in seperate areas at the right time. When they are down enough then make 1 a basher and the other a miner. The miner might not work on one side but it will on the other.
If this doesn't work I'll try and send you a screenshot ;)
I'm still stuck on Level 6 and 7. Anybody passed them?
Just a note -- if you post a solution to a level on the forums, try to hide it in a way that the people who have yet to pass the level might not be spoiled by it. Thanks.
~I.S.
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This sounds more than my solution ;)
Could you edit your solution so that people who don't want to read it,can't read it unless they wanted to? (wingdings or something) :)
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Wingdings does work here, you know?
[edit]Bugger! Apparently it doesn't work in Firefox. :-? Andi, can you do anything about it? Any chance of <span style="font:wingdings">HTML support</span> even?[/edit]
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I just tried to edit the solution in wingdings but it didn't work. Thanks to Insane Steve for trying to anyway. Has anybody been able to pass Level 6?
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Oh, and JM, that's how I did it too. I just got confused by your review.
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That's ok. Anybody able to review Level 6?
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Wingdings does work here, you know?
[edit]Bugger! Apparently it doesn't work in Firefox. :-? Andi, can you do anything about it? Any chance of <span style="font:wingdings">HTML support</span> even?[/edit]
Here's another possible method...
Solution Warning - Text goes here! Yellow text is really hard to read. ;)
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[edit]Especially in an edit box! ;D[/edit]
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I usually use either the Wingdings method to encrypt solution text, or I change the text color to white, so that it is only visible when highlighted. Unfortunately, the second method only works half the time since the background color alternates between white and blue.
Another option with the new forum is to make the text yellow, then highlight it using the highlight tag, like this:
[highlight]Insert solution here.[/highlight]
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You can examine the forum's css (http://forum.lemmingswelt.de/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default.css) to find out that the light blue background is color #DDE3EB (sample), but the yellow seems much better since it works even if the background color switches, as can be the case if posts were deleted.
Then again, with the new color scheme, even the light blue background seems light enough for white text to be difficult to read (right?).
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Oops, wrong background color. &#A0;Let's try again with the light blue background:
You can examine the forum's css (http://forum.lemmingswelt.de/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default.css) to find out that the light blue background is color #DDE3EB (sample), but the yellow seems much better since it works even if the background color switches, as can be the case if posts were deleted.
Then again, with the new color scheme, even the light blue background seems light enough for white text to be difficult to read (right?).
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I know how to change the writing colour. I get bored of plain black writing all the time.
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Lol! ;D
ccexplore, you should notice that the background color changes all the time. One time white, one time blue! :D
I like the idea of LemSteven
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I usually use either the Wingdings method to encrypt solution text, or I change the text color to white, so that it is only visible when highlighted. &#A0;Unfortunately, the second method only works half the time since the background color alternates between white and blue.
Another option with the new forum is to make the text yellow, then highlight it using the highlight tag, like this:
[highlight]Insert solution here.[/highlight]
That looks like the best solution.
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[size=12]Still haven't been able to Pass Level 6 but I think I know 1 or 2 parts of the level to help me complete it. [/size]
EDIT: I just got passed Level 6 but I can't review two levels in a row.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak3/6.png)
Levipak3 - Level 6: Hurry up! Go down!! (part 2)
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 17 builders, 1 basher
Good: More difficult than the original. You give a couple more builders than is absolutely necessary, but not enough to make it too easy.
Bad: Rather obvious what you have to do, but annoying to pull off. With all the slopes and steps, it's hard to get your builders exactly where you want them (with pausing, etc.), since you can't build mid-step.
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I'm still stuck on the 7th level. By the way Shvegait did you get my PMs or my e-mails?
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Yes JM, sorry, I've been a bit busy recently, but I did get the file. I'll fix TWPack02 Level 10 when I get a chance (tonight if I remember).
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I explained how to save the top lemming in level 7 in page 84 of this thread.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak3/7.png)
Levipak3 - Level 7: Houston,we got a problem !
3 Lems
100% to save
RR: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 11 builders, 2 miners, 7 diggers
Good: Good scenery, and most of the level is used. It has a nice puzzle.
Bad: Much easier than level 6. There are a lot of extra skills and a there is more than one way to pass the level. The hidden steel is a bit annoying.
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The title of the level is pretty cool. I'm a keen fan of levels with upside-down exits ;)
That's ok Shvegait. I was hoping we could do one of Tumble Weed's levelpaks next. Maybe Twpak02,Twpak09,Twpak10 or Twpak11 :)
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Lol, I know of three completely different methods to save the upper lemming. (the intended one is the least interesting I think), my backroute involves a lemming from below to get the upper lemming down.
Tseug's method with the lemming walking through the water is also interesting (I quoted it here again for people being too lazy to go back to page 84 ;)):
I just did level 7. The hardest one for me to save was the middle lemming. Here is how to save the top one:
Dig down the first vertical pole. Dig close to the second one and then build to the right after going down 1 pixel.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak3/8.png)
Levipak3 - Level 8: Imperfection
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 10 bombers,90 builders,1 basher,10 diggers
Good: You need to figure out how to save all the lemmings using the number of tools provided
Bad: The exit on the bottom doesn't need to be reached to complete the level,you don't need all those builders you
can finish the level with just 20 left
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there is more than one way to pass the level
I wouldn't consider that bad, far from it. As long as the difficulity with each route is relatively similar (ie One isn't an obvious backroute) multiple routes are always fun, since they allow for replay value.
Linear isn't always the way to go!
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Level 9 is what I find pretty easy to pull off :P
But I haven't managed to pass it yet. So far we have 2 levels left to review in this pack so who's up for doing the last 2 levels?
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How is it possible anyway to reach the top exit on level 8?
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Oh wait Levi! Maybe it was a backroute I found. You just dig a pixel down then build it's something like that. Well It probably was a backroute and I didn't know it was a backroute but I'm sure it's a backroute now. Thanks Levi.
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Oh wait Levi! Maybe it was a backroute I found. You just dig a pixel down then build it's something like that. Well It probably was a backroute and I didn't know it was a backroute but I'm sure it's a backroute now. Thanks Levi.
I thought I put my steel area at the right place so you couldn't reach the top exit at all...
The intended solution makes you figure out on how to get trough the 10 pipes with 1 basher...
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I give up on Level 9. It's too annoying. I successfully managed Level 10.
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I must have saved 76% about 50 times so far in level 9. :P
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I keep saving less. Looks like you'll be able to pass the level soon ;)
I can easily pass Level 10 I know what trick it uses.
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there is more than one way to pass the level
I wouldn't consider that bad, far from it. As long as the difficulity with each route is relatively similar (ie One isn't an obvious backroute) multiple routes are always fun, since they allow for replay value.
Linear isn't always the way to go!
The point was that it seemed too easy for a seventh level, especially after level 6.
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It was really annoying having to trap all the lemmings on Level 6. After 1 or 2 failures I managed to trap them. Level 9 is really annoying me. On one attempt I failed to save any of the lemmings from one of the trap doors as the wall wasn't low enough for them to walk up and through. So has anybody been able to pass Level 9?
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It was really annoying having to trap all the lemmings on Level 6. After 1 or 2 failures I managed to trap them. Level 9 is really annoying me. On one attempt I failed to save any of the lemmings from one of the trap doors as the wall wasn't low enough for them to walk up and through. So has anybody been able to pass Level 9?
I know 2 possible ways to trap the lems on level 6...one requiring 10 builders to trap the lems and one requiring 7...but the second solution is very difficult to pull off.
JM,I still wonder how you got your lems in the top-exit on level 8...I replayed it a dozen times myself and couldn't reach it.
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Ugh. I had been trying the 7-builder way (if it's the one you're talking about, and I'm sure it is) for the longest time, and I got to the point with it where I just said "Screw this." I managed to trap them with I think it was maybe 7 or 8 (a very slightly different way), and it was sort of an accident when it worked. You actually can probably get away with 6 with this method.
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JM,I still wonder how you got your lems in the top-exit on level 8...I replayed it a dozen times myself and couldn't reach it.
I sent you a PM with a screenshot showing one way to do it. I had 48 builders left, I don't know what JM was talking about when he said there were 20 builders left. Now that I've done it, I'm surprised that I missed it.
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i'll hopefully get a screenshot of how I passed it soon. Has somebody done Level 9?
EDIT: I have a screenshot of how I passed the level. I'll send it over msn or by e-mail or PM. Somehow I had something like 60 builders or so left this time. I think at the time I first passed the level I just kept clicking repeatedly.
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It seems that so many have difficulties with level 9 :)
To give a little hint: some parts you may think that are decor,are used in the level ;)
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If I pass it I'm not reviewing two levels in a row. I can easily pass level 10. I was hoping to do one of Tumble Weed's packs next.
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It seems that so many have difficulties with level 9 :)
To give a little hint: some parts you may think that are decor,are used in the level ;)
And some parts that you think are empty space, are traps :(
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It seems that so many have difficulties with level 9 :)
To give a little hint: some parts you may think that are decor,are used in the level ;)
And some parts that you think are empty space, are traps :(
I suppose you mean those traps above the exits to eliminate a direct-drop backroute?
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Yes, of course. You couldn't have handled that situation more gracefully? Maybe make the traps visible? You could put a small platform for them to stand on. Without the visual clue, how are we to suspect that it would be a backroute? Direct-drop can be intended, also.
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Somebody out there has passed Level 9. I know I've passed Level 10 but I gave up Level 9 because I kept losing. If somebody has passed Level 9 please tell us :)
At the minute I'll take a look at some of Tumble Weed's levelpaks :P
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Hasn't anyone passed it? I've only saved 36% :(
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All I got was 50% :o
It's the most annoying level I've played on
EDIT: If you get stuck on Level 9 send me a PM. I know 1 or 2 clues to help you pass the level :)
2nd EDIT: Now I've done it. Finally ;D
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak3/9.png)
Levipak3 - Level 9: The abyss
Number of Lemmings: 77
Save: 60/77
RR: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 5 climbers,5 floaters,1 bomber,13 builders,2 bashers,2 miners,2 diggers
Good: The title is cool,you need to figure out which group of lemmings to save first and you have to multi-task :)
Bad: Very annoying level
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/levipak3/10.png)
Levipak3 - Level 10: Hang And No Life
Number of Lemmings: 79
Save: 100%
RR: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: one of each
Good: A somewhat strange and therefore interesting design; short level using a couple of nice tricks; time limit is fairly tight; skills for the main part cleverly reduced with the left part which is literally very well put into the terrain.
Bad: The title doesn't match so well since it's obvious that you should stay away from the traps; maybe a little too easy to be the last one in the pack if you know the miner glitch.
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"Hang and no life" is a pretty cool title though. I've made a level called "Drown and no life" for Custlemm and anybody who wants to try it out can ask for it over MSN Messeger or e-mail.
Ugh! The objects inside the terrain and the arrows on the exit look horrible no offense to Leviathan. The level sure should have been before "The abyss".
Anybody wanting to review one of Tumble Weed's packs?
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Everyone has his taste ;)
I was experimenting with the level and came up with the idea of making it look really special :)
A sidenote,I should delete unused black terrain pieces and objects instead of putting them somewhere out of reach...if you check some of my levels in Lemedit you should know what I mean...I was always too lazy to delete them ;)
What is the next pack we're gonna review?
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Maybe Twpak09 or Twpak11
You allright with that Levi?
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I just realized that I haven't made any new levels for my pack in a while. So that's what I'll be doing for the next few hours. Twpak09 or Twpak11 are both fine with me.
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Twpak11 will probably be the best levelpak to review. We need Shvegait to get the screenshots first. Well we can start reviewing the pack and then when the screenshots are up we can put them in our posts.
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Ugh! The objects inside the terrain and the arrows on the exit look horrible no offense to Leviathan.
I kinda liked them. They looked somewhat like the hierographic wall drawings you found inside the Pyramids.
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We can start reviewing Twpak11 although we ain't got the screenshots yet.
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I think this pack was designed for Custlemm1, level 5 is impossible.
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It's still an interesting levelpak. I knew I had enough lemmings to pass Level 5 but my time was up. We can review the levels although the screenshots aren't ready yet. Who's doing Level 1?
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Why use custlem2 as default? Most packs are designed for custlemm.
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I think I played this pack a while ago, but I never did figure out level 1. How am I supposed to delay the second lemming long enough? :-?
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I liked level 1, it is one of my favorite levels. I can't remember how I did it though (I played it in twbestof a while ago), I'll post a solution after I do it again.
Heehee I delayed the second one so long I ran out of time. :D
Hmm... a solution would ruin the level, so here's a hint (highlight to read): Use the non-steel piece of terrain that the lemmings land on.
A further hint: Use a basher in it.
Now I have a question for TW: What the heck is up with level 9?!!
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Some of Tumble Weed's levels are pretty messed up which involves fake exits,fake traps,not enough tools,some objects placed off the screen and some time limits too short.
I hope somebody can review level 1.
Shvegait have you got the screenshots yet?
EDIT: Tseug I just passed Level 9 so it's possible. I'll try and give you a screenshot of how I passed it when I can. This pack is a very interesting pack and we should review it. I reviewed the twbestof verison of Level 1 so it's best if somebody else reviews it.
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Some of Tumble Weed's levels are pretty messed up which involves fake exits,fake traps,not enough tools,some objects placed off the screen and some time limits too short.
I hope somebody can review level 1.
Shvegait have you got the screenshots yet?
Some of the exits you think are fake do work but require building into it.
I'm sure TW checked most of his levels to make sure the're possible :)
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Yeah they require building to be reached and the ones I managed to pass those levels. Levi have you passed Level 1? You can still review the level without the screenshot.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twbestof/6.png)
Twbestof - Level 6: Stalker!
Number of Lemmings: 2
To be saved: 2
Release Rate: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: All with 2 except climber
Good: Level title suits level, scenery is good, level is challenging
Bad: Why do we need bombers when we have to save 100%?
Strange,you reviewed this level from TWbestoff and you didn't actually solve it?
I managed it so here's my review :)
Stats: look above
Good: The level requires you to use every trick possible to speed things up and yes,the scenery is very cool.
Bad: After solving it,the level is rather straitforward,especially the upper side
I got 100% on level 6...I'm almost sure it's a backroute.
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Why use custlem2 as default? Most packs are designed for custlemm.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it should be default, just letting everyone know.
It's a tricky one really, you could either make a level impossible or too easy if you don't know what version the level was designed for. I think newer paks should be made for Custlemm2 though.
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Leviathan I did pass it. I'll give you a screenshot when I can ;)
I'm just waiting for Shvegait to get the screenshots for Twpak11. So you've reviewd the 1st level of Twpak11 then Leviathan?
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Leviathan I did pass it. I'll give you a screenshot when I can ;)
I'm just waiting for Shvegait to get the screenshots for Twpak11. So you've reviewd the 1st level of Twpak11 then Leviathan?
Yes,because it's the same level as that one from TWbestoff :)
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Cool
I have no idea how you can pass Level 2 but I've passed half the levels in the pack. There's also a level that uses extended graphics in this levelpak.
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EDIT: Tseug I just passed Level 9 so it's possible. I'll try and give you a screenshot of how I passed it when I can.
That's not what I meant. I meant that it was a nearly pointless straightforward level requiring only one precise move, and that making it the ninth level didn't make any sense.
So far I've passed: 1-4, 6, 9
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So you can review Level 2? You can do it without the screenshot but when Shvegait gets the screenshot you can put the screenshot in your post ;D
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak11/2.png)
twpak11 - Level 2: Lemming Productions Resent...
To be saved: 49/50
Time: 2 minutes
RR: 1
Skills: 1 of everything except blockers
Good: Funny title and a good twist on the onml level. The bomber timing actually contributes to the puzzle.
Bad: Timing that bomber is a bit of a pain.
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You know, you can put the screenshot in your post (you know the URL), just nothing will display until they are up. I'm sorry but I've been way too busy. Thanksgiving Break starts now for me though so I should get them up soon :)
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Thanks Shvegait. I'm pleased. Haven't been able to do Level 3 but I can certainly review Level 6 when it comes to that.
Tumble Weed sure has made a lot of interesting levels :P
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Thanks for the screenshots Shvegait :)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak11/3.png)
Twpak11 - Level 3: Manual Adventures
Number of Lemmings: 70
Save: 92%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 floater,3 bombers,3 blockers,15 builders,2 bashers,2 miners
Good: The scenery is quite cool looking,good save target,good amount of tools and good time limit
Bad: It's rather straightforward
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Righty-o then, level 4...
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak11/4.png)
twpak11 - Level 4: Insane in the lembrain
Number of lemmings:80
To be Saved:95%
Time: 3 minutes
RR: 50
Skills: 4 blockers, 15 builders, 10 miners
Good: Nice use of the scenery for the main attraction, a relatively challenging level which is fun to solve and has many routes to it. The time limit is just right, not too strict, but it's tight enough to urge you on.
Bad: It's much easier then the levels before it, the save percentage could be higher for more challenge, and the skills supply could be a bit more limited.
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Anyone reviewing Level 5 or am I the only one who's passed it?
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I keep running out of time but I solved (read: backrouted) level 6 :)
So you can do level 5 :)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak11/5.png)
Twpak11 - Level 5: Who'll Help Build This Splatform
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 65%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 50 builders,50 diggers
Good: You have to use diggers as bashers and you need to multi-task which includes saving the group of lemmings in the middle
and on the left
Bad: Rather annoying level
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It's annoying all right! That time limit doesn't help either.
Anyone tried level 6?
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I managed to pass it but I think my solution was a backroute. I think it would be best if someone else reviewed Level 6 and 7 and I could review either 8 or 9.
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I just passed it, but likewise I think it was a backroute. Does anyone know the under-then-up solution?
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I don't know about the under-then-up solution. I ended up bashing through the brick at the top and I saved 100%.
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I see three ways to go under then up: stick climbers inside the block or use the sliding glitch to send up 3 or more lemmings (pretty pointless, much better to use the Mayhem 2 trick). It looks like any solution going down then up would lose 3, except if I did the same thing I did for Mayhem 2. That would be the coolest solution by far. It would lose anything from 0-2 (or more if there's not enough time).
Sticking climbers inside the block looks intended.
Hmmm... I think I'll shove them through the wall with blockers... and I did it. Lost 2.
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Well, I went once over the top, twice through the steel and once down and up again.
First through the steel solution is bombing to make the steel thinner, setting a blocker as high as possible, wrong-way-mine and freeing the blocker doing this, and bashing through the rest of the steel.
Second solution is using a blocker to push the though the wall, as tseug did.
My going down way might be the intended one though:
Mining down and using a blocker to turn the miner around, that way you get through using only one miner.
Bashing through the pillar, and sending two climbers up at the left of the right half using builders. Mining and turning the miner around again. Using a bomber to get through to the miner tunnel. Then building to get to the exit.
This solution requires almost all skills, and has only about one minute left.
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Is somebody doing Level 6 because I've passed it but I reviewed the last level and reviewing more than one level in a row is against the rules.
Well I could review Level 8 or 9 after ;)
EDIT: I don't know the real solution to Level 6 but I'm sure I can figure it out ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak11/6.png)
Twpak11 - Level 6:What goes down must come up
Number of Lemmings: 40
To be saved: 50%
Release Rate: 50
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 3 climbers, 1 floater, 1 bomber, 2 blockers, 15 builders, 1 basher, 2 miners
Good: Fairly challenging level with good solutions. The number of routes mean that there is added replay value...
Bad: ...But some of them are far easier than others, so they're most likely backroutes. The level is also a little too plain aesthetically.
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Who wants to review Level 7?
I might do Levels 8 or 9
Btw This topic seems to be falling behind.
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Think yourself lucky; at least it hasn't completely died like the Cheapo version has.
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I know the cheapo one died but why hasnt anybody posted on this topic for ages?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak11/7.png)
Twpak11 - Level 5: A Rip-off of a level
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 95%
Release Rate: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 bomber,3 blockers,20 builders,5 bashers,5 miners
Good: There are 2 entrances which makes the level more interesting,there are multiple possible solutions and 100% is possible
Bad: The arrows don't serve any purpose and it's rather easy for a 7th level.
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Think yourself lucky; at least it hasn't completely died like the Cheapo version has.
I guess there are more people here who prefers LemEdit to Cheapo, and more people that makes LemEdit levels than Cheapo (especially as people like Insane Steve, Adam, Steaver, ISU, etc. has become less active recently).
Ahribar, can you remind me again what happens when you try to run CustLemm or LemEdit on your computer with DOSBox? &#A0;I thought even Finlay has gotten them to work on Mac DOSBox of all things.
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Actually, my problem is that my levels for the Cheapo thread are currently being reviewed, so I can't post anything about it.
I'm not dead. Just in college. :P
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You could post replies to some of our comments 8-) which would at least get the thread more noticed. In fact, I've been a bit surprised that you haven't done any of that.
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I haven't played cheapo before but everyone seems to be watching this topic :P
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I'm not sure I'd say "everyone", it gets viewed a lot mainly because of the frequent posting. I believe the activity on this thread increased dramatically after JM's arrival.
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I enjoy reviewing levels from Custlemm.
We're still reviewing Twpak11 by the way. I don't know who else has passed Level 9 so who's done Level 8 then?
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I did 8 in twbestof. I reviewed it then, so I think someone else should get a chance.
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Has anybody passed Level 9?
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Has anybody passed Level 9?
Nope,same with level 10.
I know how to solve level 8 but it's really difficult to get it right with the second miner.
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I was the only one who did pass Level 9 but shall I review Level 8 or let someone else do it?
Level 10 is a nightmare
EDIT: Level 8 done here is my review
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak11/8.png)
Twpak11 - Level 8: Miner Threat
40 Lems
100% to save
RR: 50
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers, 10 builders, 2 miners
Good: Nice scenery, you have to reach the exit without using bashers or diggers
Bad: It's rather straightfoward
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I will NEVER do level 10. Really, I hate levels like that. At least level 9 is short, but it is still a dumb level (The whole level is based on building at the last pixel, blegghh!).
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I started building on the last pixel. If anybody else has not completed it then I'm the only one to review it although it's against the rules to review two levels in a row. I hope somebody's passed Level 10?
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Level 10 is way too tedious for me...it looks cool but doing something wrong at 3/4th of the level isn't funny :)
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Level 9 is unnaturally easy, but level 10 needs at least 3 more minutes. :-?
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Conway you reviewing Level 9?
EDIT: Because nobody is bothering to review any of the last 2 levels I'm going for Level 9 :P
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak11/9.png)
Twpak11 - Level 9: Let's Go...Out
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 79/80
Release Rate: 99
Time: 1 miunte
Skills:1 of everything but basher,miner and digger
Good: The scenery is pretty cool and you have to figure out how to get all the
lemmings in the exit on time
Bad: The high release rate can get annoying also the level seems a bit too simple to be this far in the pack
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Oh dear... Who's got the sanity/reflexes/unrealistic abilities/will to do level 10 then?
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Geoo probably :P
If it's impossible to beat then somebody will still have to review it.
By the way what pack shall we review next? We could do another one of Conway's,one of mine,another one of Insane Steve's,another one of Dragonslover's,Another one of Shvegait's,Another one of Hubbarts,Another one of Timballisto's,One of the VTM Author's levelpaks,Andi's pack,Anatol's pack,Another one of Lemeri's packs,One of Paris's levelpaks (PACPACK1-2),One of MC Marshy's levelpaks (MARSHY01-2),One of Christo Marquez's levelpaks (CRISFN01-15) or do the pack Lemremake.dat which I found on my hardrive.
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Well, me definately not. I don't like long levels, and I can't stand levels with a lot of builders just to get from one point to another.
Although...if you'd add a Fast Forward function to Custlemm, I would give it a try. But this is very improbable...
According to this quote, it'd be rather something for you again, although you already reviewed the last two levels:
Long levels are good especially if they have plenty of skills. Short levels are boring. [...]
btw, I wouldn't mind another one of Insane Steve's sets to be the next one.
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Nobody seems to have done Level 10 it's impossible. If we do one of Insane Steve's levelpaks then Isteve03 or 04 look pretty interesting.
So if Level 10 of Twpak11 is impossible to pass is somebody able to review it?
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I'll have to review this level then it's out the way ;)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak11/10.png)
Twpak11 - Level 10: Lemmings Universe
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 98%
RR: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 bomber,10 blockers,80 builders,20 bashers,20 miners,20 diggers
Good: The scenery looks pretty amazing,makes you think you're actually in a space atmosphere
Bad: Tedious and annoying, silly time limit
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How about one of yours now JM? JM14 seems good to me (Unless it's been done).
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So you actually passed it, Marshy? Please explain how! :o
Yeah, I'm happy doing one of Insane Steve's packs next. Haven't thought of which one yet.
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We could do one of Insane Steve's sets then JM14 :)
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Shall we go for Insane steve 5?
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Go for Insane Steve's 5th pack. We have the screenshots they are Isteve05 on Shvegait's little site. I'll play some of this pack later so you can go ahead and start reviewing the pack ;)
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Right *Inhales the contents of a balloon and opens a trapdoor* Let's go!
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/1.png)
Isteve05 - Level 1: Prevantative Maintenance
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 80/80
Release Rate: 20
Time: 5 miunte
Skills:1 of everything
Good: A nice, simple level to start the pack off. The scenery is great, and you have to think about keeping the lemmings crowd under control.
Bad: Far too much waiting! The basher/digger walls could have had their size divided multiple times and the level wouldn't lose it's puzzle.
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There must be tons of ways to do that level, I guess that makes it a little better.
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I wouldn't go as far as to say that (You do only have one of each skill, after all) but yeah, there's certainly more then one way to skin it.
Anyone passed level 2? I managed, but 3 ended in failure...
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Well... maybe not tons... but at least 3. That level has too much waiting, so I'm not going to look any more.
I heven't tried any other levels in this pack yet.
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You can say that again. If the waiting bores, you could always go mad on DOSbox's frame skip :P
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Frame skip! Maybe I'll try level 2 again... I went over the top, and I was 1 or 2 pixels off... and SSPPPPLLLAAAATTT!! >:(
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Eep. Ah well, practice makes you-know-what.
Do you mean the top of a pillar? Or the top of the curly wood? If the latter, then your solution is completely different to mine!
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The top of the level.
Frameskip doesn't make much difference, but I'm still going to try again.
Got it! Now on to level 3....
Now I've done 1,2,4. The only remaining one that doesn't look like it would be a pain is level 7.
Level 7 was surprisingly easy. The other ones all look long and tedious.
I think I might be backrouting level 9...
Level 9 is a real pain! So far my best is 81%, but at least I used 10 bashers and 9 diggers (and the builder) ... if I can get it to work then it should qualify as a backroute.
I saved 100% with 12 bashers and 15 diggers (no builder!). It was much easier than I expected and a hell of a lot easier than what I was trying before. I saw it from the beginning but passed it off as too hard... bblleeghhh! :P :P
I did level 10, what a pain! So now I'm up to 1,2,4,7,9,10. Only the worst levels to go... :P
Level 6 was easier than I expected. It doesn't even require any special tricks.
And now level 5. That was one of the stupidest levels I have ever played (There is NO excuse for 2 minutes of straight building! NONE!).
I did level 8. If I hadn't gotten it the first time I might have never tried again (it took over 6 minutes, not to mention the paused time). Now there's only level 3, looks like it's the hardest one in the pack.
Level 3 is a downright pain to execute! There are so many places where it's easy to mess up. :P
I finally did it. It was a pain, but I finished the pack now! :)
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Who would like to review Level 2? I haven't had any chance to look at the pack yet
EDIT: So far I have passed Levels 1,4 and 6
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I want to review level 3, so someone else can take level 2.
@JM: Try the remaining ones in an order something like this: 5,9,7,2,10,8,3
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I know the solution to all the levels but some are just annoying to pull off. I'll have a go at Level 2.
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So far I've passed level 2 and 6...level 6 is really amuzing,there's room for error and multiple solutions are possible :)
I'm almost sure there's a direct drop solution for level 2...I haven't tried it yet tough :)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/2.png)
Isteve05 - Level 2: The descending pillar scenario
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 100%
RR: 20
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,1 floater,20 builders,5 bashers,5 miners,5 diggers
Good: An okay re-make of Taxing 11 from the Original Lemmings
Bad: Easier than the original Taxing level
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/2.png)
Isteve05 - Level 2: The decending pillar scenario
Number of Lemmings: 50
To be saved:100%
Release Rate: 20
Time: 4 miuntes
Skills:2 climbers,1 floater,20 builders,5 bashers,5 miners,5 diggers
Good: Multiple solutions are possible which gives the level replay value.
Bad: Easier than the ascending pillar scenario,way too much skills given.
BTW,I've passed levels 1,2,6 and 10 now...level 10 was surprisingly easy...I ended with 2 spare builders,many diggers and more than 2 minutes of time left :)
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I beat you to it Levi :P
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Hahaha, in my mind, Pack 5 is probably my worst overall pack in terms of original level design. A lot of tedium there. That and all but a couple of the stages in Pack 4. I think I was having a not-so-good month when I made those packs.
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I backrouted level 4 and level 10 after comparing my solution with the solutions in one of your help files...if you'dd like I'll PM you my solutions to those levels.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/3.png)
Isteve05 - Level 3: ... Now what?
To be saved: 49/50
Release Rate: 20
Time: 5 miuntes
Skills: 10 climbers,10 floaters, 10 bombers, 1 builder,10 bashers,10 miners,10 diggers
Good: It uses by far the neatest trick in the pack. It is a real puzzle, unlike the other levels. It is fun to watch the lemmings go into the exit.
Bad: Trying to execute it can get annoying. It really should have been last.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/3.png)
Isteve05 - Level 3: ... Now what?
To be saved: 49/50
Release Rate: 20
Time: 5 miuntes
Skills: 10 climbers,10 floaters, 10 bombers, 1 builder,10 bashers,10 miners,10 diggers
Good: It uses by far the neatest trick in the pack. It is a real puzzle, unlike the other levels. It is fun to watch the lemmings go into the exit.
Bad: Trying to execute it can get annoying. It really should have been last.
What a coincidence! On Page 16 of the Challenge Thread, I alluded to this same trick! I saved 49/50 on Tricky 11 using no builders. I needed a blocker for crowd control, though, so a no-builder soluton won't work in Insane Steve's remake.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/4.png)
Isteve05 - Level 4: Annoyance
Number of Lemmings: 10
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 99
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers,10 floaters,10 bombers,35 builders,1 basher,10 miners
Good: Scenery not bad,bit of a tricky level
Bad: Time limit way too high,basically the title doesn't fit in because the level really doesn't cause that much annoyance
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Strange... I'm told to insert a disc for level 5.
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Maybe you have a messed up version of the levelpak ::)
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Perhaps, where did you download yours from?
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I got it from Insane Steve's website. I'll try and give you it over msn.
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Hahaha, in my mind, Pack 5 is probably my worst overall pack in terms of original level design. A lot of tedium there. That and all but a couple of the stages in Pack 4. I think I was having a not-so-good month when I made those packs.
Yeah, I agree with you, it's somewhat different to your usual style. Many levels of this set are quite tedious. Fortunately I already solved 5 & 9 in Cheapo (although I don't imagine level 9 being that bad for CustLemm). Set 4 is ok however IMO.
[...]
Good: It uses by far the neatest trick in the pack. It is a real puzzle, unlike the other levels.[...]
I dunno, but I don't take it as a neat trick. I think the trick of level 9 is more interesting (although quite obvious) - if it is the same as in the Cheapo version, I'll have to check it.
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I haven't passed Level 5 yet but I've passed Level 6 so who's up for Level 5?
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[...]
Good: It uses by far the neatest trick in the pack. It is a real puzzle, unlike the other levels.[...]
I dunno, but I don't take it as a neat trick. I think the trick of level 9 is more interesting (although quite obvious) - if it is the same as in the Cheapo version, I'll have to check it.
I consider it pretty much the only real trick in the pack (The other levels are too straight forward!). How did you do level 9?
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I've done Level 6 but the rest of the levels in the pack are tiring. If anyone's got a messed up version of Isteve05 go to http://insanesteve.tripod.com/ and get a clean version of the pack :)
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I consider it pretty much the only real trick in the pack (The other levels are too straight forward!). How did you do level 9?
I now also checked it for custlemm, my solution: [highlight]Set the RR to about 75. Have the lemmings of the right entrance dig steps (as done in "I am A.T"). After having placed a couple of diggers (at least 9 IIRC) lower the right edge of the platform for the lemmings of the right entrance to make the fall safe using a digger and making it basher later. RR 99. Have the very right digger bash when he's 6 or 7 pixels below. Have the next digger bash when he's about 6 or 7 pixels below the level of the basher above and so on. All the lemmings except for the bashers themselves should walk up the stairs created by the bashers.[/highlight]
I quite like this trick, a nice twist on "I am A.T".
What's your solution?
I don't know, but I actually hadn't any problems finding out the solution for level 3 and executing only took a few tries. I also like Insane Steve's "Mount Rant" (although mainly for the level idea, not the solution idea) using the same trick. The first time I solved it using a kind of "I am A.T" though.
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Insane Steve's re-make of "I am A.T" is pretty cool. It's even better than the original "I am A.T". I'm hoping to make a re-make of "I am A.T" called "I am J.M". I hope Insane Steve doesn't mind ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/5.png)
Isteve05 - Level 5: The Lemming Mental Institue
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 90%
Release Rate: 20
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 10 bombers, 50 builders, 10 basher, 10 miners, 10 diggers
Good: The symmetrical design is nice, and there's a few factors to think about regarding the unactive lemmings.
Bad: The solution is exceedingly obvious, and it's fairly easy to perform, making an easy level in all. And again, too much waiting!
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/6.png)
Isteve05 - Level 6: Bolero
Number of Lemmings: 75
Save: 73%
RR: 01
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 5 climbers,10 bombers,20 blockers,30 builders,20 miners
Good: You need to get down the pillar without using diggers to save the two bottom groups that keep falling into the lava and
the scenery is pretty cool
Bad: It's tedious using the miners to get down the pillar so you can use builders to save the bottom groups,basically one of
the exits doesn't need to be reached to complete the level
By the way what does "Bolero" mean?
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It's a dance.
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The dance of the lemmings plummeting into a sea of lava?
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geoo's solution to level 9 is the same as the one I intended.
JM, go for it. It's a personal theory of mine that just about every level designer eventually makes some sort of I Am A.T. remake.
I was listening to a song called Bolero when I made level 6 and couldn't think about the title. Something about the word links in my mind to fire, and I don't know why.
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JM, go for it. It's a personal theory of mine that just about every level designer eventually makes some sort of I Am A.T. remake.
What's your evidence so far though? &#A0;I'm under the impresssion that are far more counterexamples to your theory than examples. ;) &#A0;(I did like the remake you did though.)
I personally would rather explore new tricks and ideas not yet featured in other people's levels, much less official levels, so it would probably be like hitting rock-bottom of level design for me, if I ever get to the point of having to do an I Am A.T. remake. ;)
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JM, go for it. It's a personal theory of mine that just about every level designer eventually makes some sort of I Am A.T. remake.
Yep. I was gonna say I haven't made one, but I've made a level that was, umm, "inspired" by that level... it's sufficiently different, though.
I was listening to a song called Bolero when I made level 6 and couldn't think about the title. Something about the word links in my mind to fire, and I don't know why.
Have you ever played Ocarina of Time? The song that you play to warp to the Fire Temple is called "Bolero of Fire." Maybe that's why :P Playing that game was the first time I'd ever heard the word "bolero", so I think they kind of link together for me, too.
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Well, I utterly backrouted level 9 (Highlight to read): Make the first lemming start digging about 2/5 (anything to the right of this is fine, just don't start too far to the left) of the way along the block. Bash after he has dug 5 pixels. Make the next lemming start digging about a digger's width to the left of where the first one started (shouldn't fall into the pit). Bash after he has dug 10 pixels. Continue digging and bashing, 5 pixels lower each time. Good job, you just saved 100%!
I know that the text is white and this post is blue, but it's still pretty much impossible to read accidentally.
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Ya, see, I tried to prevent that from happening when I made the level. Bah. That's why I had 11 as the number of bashers. Think I should make it 10?
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Ya, see, I tried to prevent that from happening when I made the level. Bah. That's why I had 11 as the number of bashers. Think I should make it 10?
Hold it! My version had 20 of each! I should get the real version...
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Ya, see, that's a problem. My version has 11 bashers and 11 diggers, because I noted the 20/20 backroute you mentioned. Real version is on my Useless Website in my profile.
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Who's reviewing Levels 7,8,9 and 10?
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JM, go for it. It's a personal theory of mine that just about every level designer eventually makes some sort of I Am A.T. remake.
Yep. I was gonna say I haven't made one, but I've made a level that was, umm, "inspired" by that level... it's sufficiently different, though.
I think that's what Steve meant; if you count levels "inspired" by I am A.T., it probably is most people who have done one. I have too -- Zorn's Lemming -- but my version is definitely "sufficiently different", as well as a whole lot harder.
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I think that's what Steve meant; if you count levels "inspired" by I am A.T., it probably is most people who have done one. I have too -- Zorn's Lemming -- but my version is definitely "sufficiently different", as well as a whole lot harder.
So we have Insave Steve, Shvegait, Ahribar, and maybe J.M. in the future. &#A0;Just 4 examples so far. &#A0;Surely there are more level designers out there, 4 can't be "most people".
I suppose one can revise the theory to: &#A0;level designers who have seen, heard about, or discovered independently the trick is likely to make a level based on it, in which case 4 might have a chance of being "most".
Personally I find the trick a bit overhyped here and would not use it in a level just for its sake, unless there are other, more interesting moves you need to do in the level.
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Conway made one also, in his first level pack ("I am not A.T., but close enough"). And Isu, in Isupck02 ("I am A.L. (A Lemming)". In fact, we reviewed both of those. Garjen02 Level 9 is also a remake of this level, although I think it tries to stick as much to the original as possible.
Anyway, I think the point was that it's a commonly imitated or built-upon trick for whatever reason, moreso than some other tricks.
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All these "I am A.T" remakes are amazing. Insane Steve's re-make is probably my favourite. Level 7 of this pack seems to be a re-make of a level from the original Lemmings. Has anyone passed it?
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I've only beaten one out of about 5 versions from "I am AT" I played...most of the time I make a crucial mistake,somewhere in the level and have to start all over again.
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Is I am A.T a Mega Drive/Genesis level?
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Anyway, I think the point was that it's a commonly imitated or built-upon trick for whatever reason, moreso than some other tricks.
Well, no wonder I find it overhyped! ;)
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Is I am A.T a Mega Drive/Genesis level?
Yes, it was like Sunsoft 29 or something like that (don't remember the exact level number). &#A0;It was also Sunsoft 2 on the SNES version (exact same level).
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Re-makes of Genesis levels or Original Levels are always cool. Especially the re-makes of "Tightrope City","Steel Works","Pea Soup" and there's also a level in another of Insane Steve's packs with a title similar to "Fall and no life".
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I wish people wouldn't just remake them with no changes at all. There's very little point to it, and it'll spoil it for the player if they are yet to play the level, but it will be just a reminder for those that have played it.
They need to come with warnings too, I played through a Lemmings 2 level via a Custlemm level before the actual thing before.
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I wish people wouldn't just remake them with no changes at all.
With the exception of that A.T. remake garjen did, I'm pretty sure all the other A.T. levels are either totally different, or at least have different skills or some other twists to it.
From the context, the kind of remake J.M. is referring to are the kind where at least the skill distribution, if not the level layout itself, is modified, so they are not pointless remakes.
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I think that's what Steve meant; if you count levels "inspired" by I am A.T., it probably is most people who have done one. I have too -- Zorn's Lemming -- but my version is definitely "sufficiently different", as well as a whole lot harder.
So we have Insave Steve, Shvegait, Ahribar, and maybe J.M. in the future. &#A0;Just 4 examples so far. &#A0;Surely there are more level designers out there, 4 can't be "most people".
Conway, Isu, and Special_Gunpowder are the others I know of -- there are more than 13 people designing Lemmings levels, I admit, but I think those 7 are a majority counted out of the active designing users of the forum :P
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I wish people wouldn't just remake them with no changes at all.
With the exception of that A.T. remake garjen did, I'm pretty sure all the other A.T. levels are either totally different, or at least have different skills or some other twists to it.
From the context, the kind of remake J.M. is referring to are the kind where at least the skill distribution, if not the level layout itself, is modified, so they are not pointless remakes.
Yeah, that was really aimed at past remakes of levels. I guess you can change the skill distrubtion completely to make a totally different challenge, or force you to go to what was once decorative scenery by filling the normal path with traps.
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I love the re-makes that are challenging. These are a few re-makes that are challenging.
There's Isteve09 Level 3 "A BeastIV of a level"
There seems to be one or two challenging re-makes in the pack Garjen09.dat
Pacpack2.dat has another challenging re-make
There is also 20041 - Level 5 "The Roles Reversed"
There's a few more but I've forgotten their names
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No one else is reviewing level 7, so here goes...
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/7.png)
Isteve05 - Level 7: Irregularly Placed Pole Level
Number of Lemmings: 60
Save: 95%
RR: 10
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers,10 floaters,6 bombers,6 blockers,6 builders,2 bashers,1 miner,1 digger
Good: Nice idea. It is possible to save more than required and there is plently of time; so it isn't that annoying.
Bad: Too easy for a seventh level. I don't know about anyone else but I saw the correct route instantly. This has to be one of the ugliest levels I have ever played!
EDIT: I might have to review level 8 too. Does anyone think they have enough patience for it?
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This has to be one of the ugliest levels I have ever played!
Oh come on, you are exaggerating. &#A0;Anyway, it is called irregularly placed poles, so what can you do? ;)
Personally when I saw the screenshot, it reminds me not of poles but the equalizer display on your stereo (you know, the display with the several bars representing different frequencies going up and down with the music).
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The irregular poles are the best part. I was referring to the rest of the level.
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The level reminds me of Mayhem 7 "Poles Apart" from the Original Lemmings. I thought the route was to break through the poles using the amount of tools you have but then I found out you have to bash through the ceiling to reach the exit. I haven't passed Level 8,9 or 10 so Tseug you can review Level 8 if you want ;)
By the way we are reviewing JM14 next. Get the levelpak from The Lemmings File Portal. The one on The Lemmings File Archive has some tools missing for one of the levels so get the updated one from the Lemmings File Portal.
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I wouldn't say it was ugly, not at all. I would, however, suggest that it has quite possibly the worst name for a level ever to grace a lemmings game ;)
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I wouldn't say it was ugly, not at all. I would, however, suggest that it has quite possibly the worst name for a level ever to grace a lemmings game ;)
Even worse than "Level with strange blocks" (a level I made for Cheapo no-one has solved yet afaik)?
And yeah, I think the design of Mayhem 7 shouldn't be that much better then. I think it looks ok.
Insane Steve also made a (or: this) level looking similar for Cheapo. But it was called "Over the top", saying quite a bit about the solution...
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Has anybody passed Level 8?
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Afraid not :( Someone must have by now surely? That said, it's a very difficult level, doesn't help that the order the trap doors release their contents isn't indicated.
Regarding level 7, I actually like the uneven nature of the level, what with the poles ranging in completely random heights. Sometimes you have to go a bit zany with your level design.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/8.png)
Isteve05 - Level 8: Split Complementaries (Part 2)
Number of Lemmings: 10
Save: 100%
RR: 01
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,9 floaters,10 bombers,10 blockers,50 builders,20 bashers,20 miners
Good: You must pay attention to all four entrances and you have to multi-task,
Bad: Long and boring,the level takes forever,also it's more straightforward than the original "Split Complementaries"
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The problem with level 8, I think, was that I originally had 80 lemmings, except that you couldn't save enough to make the level a simple "Save two exits" excercise. So... I did some things and the level got ruined. Bah. Once again, IS05 is terribly made.
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My favourte levelpak out of all 9 is probably Isteve07. The levels are greatly designed and the scenery of each level is amazing. There's also some fantastic titles including "4 Pillars and a Trap","The Annoying 1-Pixel Gap","Bash and no time" and "If only they could swim". Isteve04 is also one of my favourite levelpaks including the level "The Nifty Fifty".
Anyway back onto topic of Isteve05. Level 8 is too tiring (no offense to Insane Steve). I could not pass it but I know that there is a way to save the lemming with no floater. Level 1 and 2 were quite easy. I also passed Level 4 and 6. Why are some levels in this pack so easy?
Maybe Insane Steve was having a bad day :P
Isteve07-09 have no walkthroughs but I can't pass any level in Isteve08.
So Who's Passed Level 9 and 10?
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Why does everyone ignore this topic and all the questions people ask?
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I've passed level 10 but not level 9...so I'll wait untill level 9 is reviewed :)
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Why does everyone ignore this topic and all the questions people ask?
This being pretty much one of the most popular threads on this forum, you are clearly kidding. ::)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/9.png)
ISteve05 - Level 9: "I am I.S."
Save 71/80
RR: 60
time: 5 minutes
skills: 1 bomber, 1 builder, 20 bashers, 20 diggers
Good: Nice twist on the famous Genesis level "I'm A.T."; on first glance it looks like a simple remake of it, but the high amout to save make the original route impossible; comes up with a new nice idea for a solution.
Bad: The border between the two pillars looks a bit strange IMO; has a backroute.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/isteve05/10.png)
ISteve05 - Level 10: Let's see what you've learned
Save 2/2
RR: 99
time: 7 minutes
skills: 2 climbers,1 floater,1 bomber,2 blockers,20 builders,10 diggers
Good: Uses a couple of neat tricks and has a nice design
Bad: Way too easy for a 10th level,I solved it with a few spare builders and at least 7 or 8 spare diggers and when looking at the "hints" file,I used a backroute.
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Isteve05 is finally done!
Now on to JM14 :)
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Get the clean version of JM14 from The Lemmings File Portal. You can start reviewing the levelpak but you can insert the screenshots when Shvegait gets them ;)
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Okay then :)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm14/1.png)
JM14.dat-Level 1 : Price to play the Game
No. of lemmings:80
Save:62%
RR: 1
time: 5 minutes
skills: 1 blocker,10 builders,10 bashers
Good: A nice, simple way to start the pak, and it's not the basher exercise it first appears to be. Some great scenery too, I perticularly like the rocky mountain on the left.
Bad: 62% to save? 100% can be accomplished with little hassle, and if this was set with a higher release rate, we would have had a more challenging level.
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I have no idea why I always made levels that were very straightforward. This pack of mine doesn't seem too bad but some of the levels are a bit long I guess.
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Some of your levels are hard JM. There's some good designs on a few levels. JM06 is a good re-make of some of the levels from the original Lemmings. I've played this levelpak and it seems pretty easy although it has a few long levels. I might play the rest of the pack later.
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The version from the file portal has 8 bashers for level 1. Where did 10 come from?
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I think I was cutting off a basher or two just to make the level a bit harder. You know you can review levels although the screenshots aren't available yet.
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I usually don't review any levels until I've completed the pack. I have 5,6,7,8 left.
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I'm done with the pack now.
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Sorry about the lack of screenshots. They are done, but the server crashed last night, and it isn't back up yet.
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No problem Shvegait, we're grateful you're doing them in the first place :)
So who's up for level 2?
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Tseug you can start reviewing now you've finished the pack :P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/JM14/2.png)
JM14.dat-Level 2 :
No. of lemmings:30
Save:83%
RR: 50
time: 5 minutes
skills: 20 of everything except 2 bombers and 1 blocker
Good: Another onml remake with great scenery. Just the right difficulty for a 2nd level and it's 100%able. No hidden traps.
Bad: Nothing really.
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I am obsessed with re-makes of such ONML and Original Levels :P
Thanks Tseug. I didn't think there was anything bad about that level either. I hope somebodys done the rest of the pack.
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Oops, forgot the title. It's "How about this".
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The screenshots ain't up yet :o
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The screenshots ain't up yet :o
Sorry about the lack of screenshots. They are done, but the server crashed last night, and it isn't back up yet.
Anyhow, the server is back up as of late last night, and I just put the screenshots up. Older ones should load fine now, too.
(Remember: All lowercase letters for pack names)
Here's JM14 - Level 2, "How about this", since guests can't edit posts:
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm14/2.png)
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Thanks for the screenshots Shvegait. And thanks for inserting the image at the bottom since guests can't edit posts. We accept your apologies.
Has anybody passed any more of my levels?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm14/3.png)
JM14.dat-Level 3: It happened yesterday
No. of lemmings:80
Save:85%
RR: 40
time: 4 minutes
skills: 20 of everything except 2 bombers and 1 blocker
Good: An interesting ONML level remake with a clever twist: Hidden traps. They have been very well implemented, and the more skillful will notice their pattern and where they occur.
Bad: Once you're passed the traps it's fairly easy. Not to mention it's the third level with a bubble graphic set in a row!
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This is the first bubble set level that has hidden traps.
In the pink set you can get hidden traps which is usually the mashers that crush the lemmings when you don't know the traps are there before the lemmings reach them. In the roman set you can get a trap on the wall so that when the lemming climbs the wall he doesn't know the traps there and it will kill him. This also occurs in the dirt set,the brick set,the crystal set and the snow set. Basically it's great to implement a hidden trap into a level.
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You can say that again, just aslong as the no of lemmings to save isn't so high. They do add a twist to the level.
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The save percentage usually is high. On some levels it's very low like 30% for example. Sometimes 1% which is awful. Some levels would have 20% but I don't know what else to say. I think it's good to have hidden traps in some levels.
So who's passed level 4?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm14/4.png)
JM14.dat-Level 4: Turn around
Lems:50
Save:80%
RR: 60
time: 2 minutes
skills: 1 bomber,1 builder,1 basher,1 digger
Good: Not too straitforward,at first I didn't notice the bomber and thought it was impossible to save 80%.
Bad: Very blank level,it uses only 3 objects and 3 terrain pieces...also the 80% could be 96%.
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It's a very clever level, JM had to give me hints to pass it. But yeah, a bit basic aesthetically.
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Really? It looks straightforward enough...... but maybe there's a subtlety that only comes out when you play it. I'd have guessed the first lemming from the top entrance digs then bombs, while the first lemming from the lower entrance builds then bashes into the bomb hole. Am I wrong?
EDIT: first post on page 100! Nice!
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100 pages! We've certainly come a long way with this!
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at first I didn't notice the bomber and thought it was impossible to save 80%.
What!? My version doesn't have a bomber. Maybe that's why I've been stuck on it... The most I could save was 74%, although slightly more than that might be possible (I'm unsure how to get 80% though).
JM, when did you change this level?
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Wow! 100 pages! From the 26th April 2005 to the December 17th! Almost 8 months! Seen more than 16240 times! What a huge topic! :D
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at first I didn't notice the bomber and thought it was impossible to save 80%.
What!? My version doesn't have a bomber. Maybe that's why I've been stuck on it... The most I could save was 74%, although slightly more than that might be possible (I'm unsure how to get 80% though).
JM, when did you change this level?
Maybe that's why I didn't notice the bomber at first glance...I somehow remember playing a version without bomber too.
I could save an amount above 50% but certainly not 80% then.
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I'm not sure when I changed this level Shvegait. The version from The Lemmings file portal is the best version of the pack. The versions from any other site seem faulty. Not really a bad pack of mine. Who's passed the remaining levels 5,6,7,8,9 and 10?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm14/5.png)
JM14 - Level 5: Party Time!
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
RR: 80
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 50 builders,5 bashers,5 miners,5 diggers
Good: Not much,the solution isn't bad
Bad: It's boring watching the lemmings make their way to the exit,theres too many builders aswell
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm14/6.png)
JM14 - Level 6: Sweet Helen
Save 40/60
RR: 20
time: 4 minutes
Good: Well, the original design of the level isn't bad.
Bad: The slight terrain change at the left doesn't look good however; there were a few possibilites to make the level at least a bit harder, e.g. cutting off some time, increasing the percentage to save by a little more than just a few points, only giving the necessary skills (I mean just cutting off the stuff you'd neither use even if it was given doesn't make the level harder in any way), but none of them were used - come on, this ain't harder than the original version, and that was a rating 'tame' level; and at last used a hidden trap trying to give the level at least a bit of difficulty.
And btw I dislike hidden traps: in most cases they have been used to make levels not being hard a little less easy, there are a lot of examples for that in the original lemmings and ONML, and this level is one too. I think really good levels don't need something like that. Requiring the player to think is a much better attribute for a level in my opinion.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm14/7.png)
JM14 - Level 7: Don't Mess with me
Number of Lemmings: 44
Save: 68%
RR: 5
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 6 climbers, 20 floaters, 2 bombers, 1 blocker, 15 builders, 1 basher, 3 miners
Good: Nice, short level with a cunning trick you may not notice at first.
Bad: Floaters. The inclusion of them completely ruin the level, originally I had planned to build a bridge for the upper lemmings to land on, and I had a challenging solution to look forward to pulling off. I'm certain it would be possible under the save amount. As a result, the level is too easy and not worthy of it's place. The design is very basic too, it could do with more scenery. And to top it off, I'm not with the idea of having a typical teenager slang term as a level title :P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm14/8.png)
JM14 - Level 8: Keep your hair on
50 Lems
98% to save
RR: 30
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 2 floaters, 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 2 builders, 1 basher
Good: Well, it uses a different graphics set than the original.
Bad: Not at all harder than the original (Fun 11!). Again, as geoo stated, taking away skills that you wouldn't use anyway doesn't make a level harder! Finally, the exit is slightly misplaced and requires a builder to be reached.
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My upcoming levelpak will hopefully be the best or the hardest pack of all mine :P
Who's going to do Level 9?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm14/9.png)
JM14 - Level 9: Warning: One Minute
Number of Lemmings: 30
save: 100%
RR: 50
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 3 builders,2 bashers
Good: The title pretty much fits in with the time limit
Bad: Way too easy to be this far in the pack
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/jm14/10.png)
JM14 - Level 10: Pathetic
Number of Lemmings: 80
save: 75%
RR: 30
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 50 of each except 10 bombers
Good:It's possibe to save 100% using multiple different routes...
Bad:
1)You have to save only 75% whereas 100% is easily achieveable
2)Given you save 100%,the level can be done with only 5 builders,2 diggers and 3 bashers...I'm almost sure better is possible too so why give 50 of each skill if you can complete it with 5 of each skill at maximum?
3)Who needs 7 minutes to do this?
4)One of the traps is floating mid-air
5)So easy certainly for a 10th level in a pack
BTW,sorry for being "too" honest,but I've seen much better levels of you JM than this one...the main purpose of this topic anyway is that authors can learn about their "mistakes" and make better levels in the future ;)
My question: what's the next pack we're going to review?
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Say, we haven't done a Conway pack in a while have we?
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sorry to say this but, WHAT THE HECK!? 1498 Replies!?
wow this topic must be an legend now. ::)
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Bad:
1)You have to save only 75% whereas 100% is easily achieveable
2)Given you save 100%,the level can be done with only 5 builders,2 diggers and 3 bashers...I'm almost sure better is possible too so why give 50 of each skill if you can complete it with 5 of each skill at maximum?
3)Who needs 7 minutes to do this?
4)One of the traps is floating mid-air
5)So easy certainly for a 10th level in a pack
Look at the title. The title is saying that the level looks pathetic. Also it's saying the amount of tools,lemmings to be saved and the time limit are also pathetic.
How about we do Conway06 next?
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Bad:
1)You have to save only 75% whereas 100% is easily achieveable
2)Given you save 100%,the level can be done with only 5 builders,2 diggers and 3 bashers...I'm almost sure better is possible too so why give 50 of each skill if you can complete it with 5 of each skill at maximum?
3)Who needs 7 minutes to do this?
4)One of the traps is floating mid-air
5)So easy certainly for a 10th level in a pack
Look at the title. The title is saying that the level looks pathetic. Also it's saying the amount of tools,lemmings to be saved and the time limit are also pathetic.
How about we do Conway06 next?
Actually I wanted to say that the title suits the level but I didn't meant to insult you ;)
By the way,besides of the floating trap the level design looks very OK :)
Conway06 is fine to me...
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway06/1.png)
Conway06 - Level 1: Dr. Lemminglittle
Number of Lemmings:21
Save: 100%
RR: 60
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 bomber,14 bashers
Good: A nice simple level with nice scenery to start off the pack
Bad: Nothing I guess...
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway06/2.png)
Conway06 - Level 2: right of way
Number of Lemmings:10
Save: 100%
RR: 40
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 3 bombers,3 blockers,12 builders,3 bashers,5 miners,5 diggers
Good: Nice design and time limit
Bad: Too many straight building,building to that exit can get annoying
Level 10 is a cheapie and for level 9 I found my own cunning solution that didn't use many skills...so if it's ok with the rest I'll review level 9 when the time has come :)
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How on Earth do you do level 10!? I've never heard of a floater glitch :-/
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Here is one hint. When one lemming comes out of the hatch click the nuke button.
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Here is one hint. When one lemming comes out of the hatch click the nuke button.
...!? That's it!?
Isn't that too easy if you know, and impossible if you don't know the glitch?
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Exectly. Level 10 is a cheap level.
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If you don't know the glitch then the level is impossible :P
The first few times I played this level I had no idea how to get past it. I managed to figure it out in the end when I was told about a trick you need to use to pass a level in one of Insane Steve's sets. There's also a level in one of my packs that you need to use the trick in and also one of Tumble Weed's levels.
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So far I've done: 1,3,7,9,10
Level 7 was absurd, I saved 42% :P :-?
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I did 1,3,5,10
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway06/3.png)
Conway06 - Level 3: Double crossed
Number of lemmings: 2
Save: 2/2
Release Rate: 40
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 climber,1 floater,1 bomber,1 blocker,1 basher,1 digger
Good: Nice scenery,perfect time limit,perfect amount of tools,title matches as the lemmings walk into each other if you placed the digger in the right place
Bad: It's rather straightforward
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Which exit did you go to on that JM? I managed the bottom, although it was a little luck based since I had to hope the left lemming was facing right when he fell.
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If I remember correctly, which I don't offhand (SPOILER),
The right lemming goes into the left exit, and the left lemming goes into the bottom exit... the paths cross as indicated by the title, and the trick is to dig and bash without the tunnels stopping each other. That is, if I remember correctly, which I might not.
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That solution is correct. It only took me 2 or 3 tries to pass the level correctly.
Who's passed Level 4?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway06/4.png)
Conway06 - Level 4: Back and forth
20 Lems
95% to save
RR: 1
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 3 blockers, 5 bashers
Good: Cool concept of bashers releasing blockers, I guess...
Bad: Extremely obvious what you have to do, and rather luck-based in getting it to work. I'll withhold my rant this time, but only because his Cheapo version of this level is far worse in this respect and I don't have much time now anyway.
Some levels of this type have a sort of "flow" to them. This one seems very hard to predict. Does anyone know a way to solve this 100% of the time? (aside from memorizing specific pixel positions...) I've tried various release rates, but those only help marginally.
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If I remember correctly, which I don't offhand (SPOILER),
The right lemming goes into the left exit, and the left lemming goes into the bottom exit... the paths cross as indicated by the title, and the trick is to dig and bash without the tunnels stopping each other. That is, if I remember correctly, which I might not.
Looks like a backrouted it then. That's a fairly clever solution though, I can see it needing timing.
I presume with the luck based criticism that you mean releasing the blockers Shvegait? I'm amazed you can post so much about the bad aspect of the level, and not mention how blooming long you have to wait for the bashers!
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I did level 5, but I had to look at it in custlemm. Level 4 is really awful, especially if the last blocker fails. :P
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I presume you mean in lemedit.
Level 5 is a little irritating, it seems to be entirely luck. A shame, the other invisible level we had was very well designed.
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Oh, yes, I meant lemedit.
I have 2,4,6 left. There seems to be a pattern of even numbered levels being harder.
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Really not much harder, just longer.
4 and 6 left.
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I presume with the luck based criticism that you mean releasing the blockers Shvegait? I'm amazed you can post so much about the bad aspect of the level, and not mention how blooming long you have to wait for the bashers!
Yeah, releasing the blockers, of course. There's a lot more bad I could've said about the level, but based on the reaction I got the last time I did that, I think I will refrain :P
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Is somebody able to review Level 5?
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I finally did level 4. :) Level 6 is really long. :P
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I presume with the luck based criticism that you mean releasing the blockers Shvegait? I'm amazed you can post so much about the bad aspect of the level, and not mention how blooming long you have to wait for the bashers!
Yeah, releasing the blockers, of course. There's a lot more bad I could've said about the level, but based on the reaction I got the last time I did that, I think I will refrain :P
Very modest of you! Don't hold back anything that could help the author to improve though, criticism isn't just a way to rant about other people's work :P It can be useful.
Gah, I think level 5 is impossible without looking in lemedit, and even then the objects being hidden hinders it.
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Don't worry; Conway already knows what the criticism would be, we had the full version in the Cheapo Level Pack topic.
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Ahribar, I almost forgot about that! Yeah, I already ranted on the level. I think that's a better reason not to do it here, and as I mentioned before, the Cheapo version is MUCH worse, because it is a longer level, meaning you have more places to mess up. And don't expect replay to work for you.
I passed level 5 a long time ago without looking at it in LemEdit... Yeah, it's a bit annoying, but it's novel anyway. Or it is if it's the first invisible level you've played, anyway.
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Conway06 - Level 4: Back and forth
<snip>
Bad: Extremely obvious what you have to do, and rather luck-based in getting it to work.
<snip>
Some levels of this type have a sort of "flow" to them. This one seems very hard to predict. Does anyone know a way to solve this 100% of the time? (aside from memorizing specific pixel positions...) I've tried various release rates, but those only help marginally.
I must have been very lucky. &#A0;I just tried the level right now and solved it on first try. &#A0;Actually, I'm still not really sure why exactly would the level require so much luck as you guys purported...... [smiley=huh.gif] &#A0;Maybe I'll discover it if I replay the level, but I'd rather not as it is certainly very repetitive.
FYI, I did not fiddle with the RR. &#A0;I have about 40 seconds left on the clock.
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I failed Level 4 when I passed it. I didn't know you have to just let 1 lemming die when I was trying to pass the level. I did Level 3 which wasn't bad but it tok me a long time to get level 10 figured out.
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*bump* I know level 5 is an annoying one, but someone has to review it!
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I've passed 5, but reviewed 4. No one else has passed it?
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I think JM's done it, but he wants someone else to do it since he did the last invisible level.
That was a while ago though, and this topic is beginning to plummet because of it!
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I still can't pass level 5 (not even in EGA mode where black parts become grey)...I'll do level 9 :P
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Somebody else should do the invisible level as I did the last one.
I might do Level 6.
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For level 4, although there's no 100% foolproof method, there are ways to make it easier and improve your chances of being successful.
For level 5, I agree it is very cheap. I can't blame anyone for looking in LemEdit. It was very cheap to make the exit and all the terrain completely hidden. It's a good job there's no way of hiding the lemmings or I would have probably done that too! :o
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Finally!
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway06/5.png)
Conway06.dat-Level 5-Somebody switch on a light!
No. of lemmings: 20
Save: 50%
RR: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 8 floaters, 1 bomber, 2 blockers, 15 builders, 1 basher, 2 miners, 1 digger
Good: The invisible aspect is clever...
Bad: But very poorly implemented. It's simply a case of trial and error finding the solution, and it's near impossible to do without looking in EGA mode.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway06/6.png)
Conway06 - Level 6: It's cold outside
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 32
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 20 of everything but blockers
Good: Nice scenery and the title definitely fits in,the 5 minute time limit really makes you need to speed things up and not
waste time,
Bad: Tedious,basically it's pretty obvious what you have to do,the exit on the left is evil!
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The trapdoor area at the left is evil! If your reactions would fail to impress a samurai cat then you'll instantly miss it first time!
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For level 4, although there's no 100% foolproof method, there are ways to make it easier and improve your chances of being successful.
I have to agree. &#A0;I have replayed the level 2 more times so far (surfing the net at the same time since the level is mostly waiting ;)), and currently the success rate is 2/3. &#A0;Granted, it helps that I can followed the example of my first success (although the 3 tries are obviously not all identical, with even the second successful try ending up with 35 seconds rather than 40+ on the clock because I didn't start some of the bashings as soon as possible), and 3 tries is statistically meaningless. &#A0;Still, it seems a far cry from other people's experience.
So although I'm still not sure why there is anything special in what I did, I don't think it's purely luck.
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For level 4, although there's no 100% foolproof method, there are ways to make it easier and improve your chances of being successful.
I have to agree.
<snip>
I don't think it's purely luck.
I decided to do the grunt work of analyzing the blocker-freeing scenarios frame by frame based on the basher's masks.
It now looks like Conway isn't quite right. As far as I can tell, where you put your blockers shouldn't really change your chances of success much, if at all. Still, your chances are not bad.
However, it does appear that the thickness of the platform has some effect. On a 9-pixel-thick platform, there is a 1/5 chance the freed blocker will not fall into or through the basher's pit. On an 8-pixel-thick platform, the chance becomes 2/5. Conway's level currently has one 9-pixel platform and one 8-pixel platform that the freed blockers stand on, so the chance of success is 48%. Technically a little less because there is the possibility of lemmings from the crowd being too close and therefore unblockable, but I have never experienced that in my 3 tries, so I think the probability of that happening is far lower than 48%. So whether or not blocker positions can affect the chances of stray lemmings going past the blocker, it is not likely to affect the 48% by much.
But had Conway made both platforms 9-pixel-thick, it would increase the chances to 64%. Not great but better.
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Level 7 is well annoying. Those hammer traps keep leaving me with only 3 lemmings to save.
EDIT: I passed level 7 saving 41% but it was a backroute :o
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For level 4, although there's no 100% foolproof method, there are ways to make it easier and improve your chances of being successful.
I have to agree.
<snip>
I don't think it's purely luck.
I decided to do the grunt work of analyzing the blocker-freeing scenarios frame by frame based on the basher's masks.
It now looks like Conway isn't quite right . . .
Actually, I was just referring to placing each blocker on the spot where he will fall through the moment he is freed, so the blocker is constantly recycled. This won't reduce the chance of the blocker not falling, but it does virtually eliminate the chance of another lemming being too close to the blocker. But since this didn't seem to be a problem for any of you, maybe you were already doing this. ;)
And yes, level 7 does contain a huge backroute.
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So far I've passed levels 1,3,5,6,7,8 and 10. Am I the only one who's passed Level 7 or is somebody going to review it?
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Actually, I was just referring to placing each blocker on the spot where he will fall through the moment he is freed, so the blocker is constantly recycled. This won't reduce the chance of the blocker not falling, but it does virtually eliminate the chance of another lemming being too close to the blocker. But since this didn't seem to be a problem for any of you, maybe you were already doing this.
I have been doing that, but the more I think of it the more I think it makes no difference. The fact that the blocker can fall also means someone from the crowd who catches up will also fall at about the same moment, so what's the difference?
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Level 7 is a tricky 'un, I only managed 6%. It's obviously the ol' Compression method, but it's tricky to pull off...
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I was just one lemming short but then I discovered a backroute that took my score to 41%. I've so far managed to pass Level 8 which seemed simple. Level 10 seems to use a trick that hardly anyone has heard of.
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What's this backroute? Is it a glitch of sorts?
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No glitch. Think outside the um... thing. ;)
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Tseug have you passed Level 7?
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Oop... I just saw it...!
Perhaps a bit of steel would've helped Conway :P
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Who else has passed Level 7?????
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Calm young padowan!
I'd review, but I just can't pass the darn thing. My apologies.
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Oh Ok.
I just keep being ignored :(
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I want to do level 8, someone else can do level 7. To answer your question, I did pass level 7.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway06/7.png)
Conway06 - Level 7: Through the liquidizer
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 10%
Release Rate: 01
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 3 blockers,25 bashers
Good: Nice title,nice scenery,good use of the air-bashing trick
Bad: Has a backroute that lets you save 41% of the lemmings,apart from that it can get annoying trying again and again until
you get the right amount of lemmings saved
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway06/8.png)
Conway06 - Level 8: A springboard would be handy
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 01
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 cimber, 1 floater, 10 bombers, 4 builders, 5 miners
Good: It is challenging to execute correctly, which is balanced with the puzzle. The scenery is nice.
Bad: Trying to mine in the right place at the end can be annoying.
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Not bad :)
2 levels left.
I suggest we do Timballisto's 2nd pack after this one :P
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Bad: Trying to mine in the right place at the end can be annoying.
At the end? In my solution all the mining in done near the beginning. Could you please pm me your solution?
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I'll do level 9 later today :)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway06/9.png)
Conway06 - Level 9: Heres where we keep the lemmings
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 30
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 20 climbers,20 floaters,30 bombers,30 blockers,30 bashers,30 miners,20 diggers and 40 builders
Good:
1) Nice scenery,the idea of using the characters from the hell set as gaps instead of terrain is something I've never seen before.
2) There are many different ways of completing his level including a solution where you need less than 4 minutes without many skills.
3)Fun level to play.
Bad: Too easy for this late in the pack especially if you know how to use climbers in this level.Also way too many skills are given.
EDIT: seems like a part from the quote I did from the previous level was still present here...sorry for that :)
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That level is awesome. I never saw that in any other levels either :P
I've seen levels with the hell set use notes like "This way to hell" etc
That is one of the nicest levels I think I have played.
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I have a nice title for a hell set level but I can't come up with a level design that fits the title...
I was thinking about a level with 2 parts:
-"Highway to hell"
-"Litter on the highway"
So who's doing level 10 now?That's one of the easiest levels I've ever played ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway06/10.png)
Conway06 - Level 10: Dyslexia
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 8 floaters
Good: The scenery for the level is certainly something to speak about, the terrain has been tiled very well, and there's no example of poor overlapping.
Bad: The solution uses nothing but a glitch, and an obscure glitch at that. It feels like it was rushed in at the last second to make a hard level, but in reality it's basically a revision lesson if you know the glitch, and since the likelyhood of discovering the glitch on your own is practically non-existent, it's impossible if you're unaware of it. I'm sorry if I'm harsh, but glitches really shouldn't be needed to make hard levels.
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Where can we get Tim's second pack?
I didn't find it on any download site for custlem levels :)
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I'd like to know aswell actually, it's not on Garjen's site or the lemmings file archive/portal.
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http://www.webcatgraphics.com/jmlproductions/jeffsite.htm
Get Timballisto's levelpak from there. It's Pack2.
We also have the screenshots aswell on Shvegait's small screenshot page. The screenshots are located in timb02.
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In case anyone's interested, I've updated the pack just reviewed to remove backroutes in levels 7 and 8. Thanks to Tseug for finding the backroute in 'A Springboard would be handy'!
<Download> (http://uk.geocities.com/benjconway79/conway06.zip)
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My solution to level 8 now uses everything except the cimber, the floater, and the bombers.
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My solution to level 8 now uses everything except the cimber, the floater, and the bombers.
That sounds about right. Could you send a screenshot, or briefly describe what you did, to make sure it's not a backroute?
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I sent a screenshot. It probably isn't a backroute, it seems about right.
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Thanks, Tsueg! :D
That's the intended solution. I hope there are no more backroutes.
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Are we reviewing Timb02 now?
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I'm still intrigued to know what the backroutes in levels 7 and 8 were.......
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I'm still intrigued to know what the backroutes in levels 7 and 8 were.......
Notice the areas I've blocked off in the updates? They should give you a clue.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb02/1.png)
Timb02 - Level 1: The icey collision
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 93%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 10 minutes
Skills: 3 miners,3 bashers,1 bomber,20 builders
Good: Cool scenery and somewhat interesting trick to contain the crowd
Bad: If there's some thing I really hate about levels then it's non-functional exits that need to be built into.Especially for levels that take a whole time to solve...
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I'm still intrigued to know what the backroutes in levels 7 and 8 were.......
Notice the areas I've blocked off in the updates? They should give you a clue.
Well, it would be nice if I had CustLemm so I could look :P
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I can't even pass Level 1. I could only do 6 and 8. The first level looks pretty cool as I love the "crystal" graphics.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb02/2.png)
Timb02 - Level 2: THE ULTIMATE MINER
Number of Lemmings: 10
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 50
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 basher, 6 builders, 10 miners, 1 digger
Good: Pretty cool title,nice scenery,uses a nice trick aswell,
Bad: The precision is annoying
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Some great scenery there, I love the twisting wood tiles.
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Yeah they're pretty good. It's got great scenery. The roman graphics are the best :)
Level 3 is really annoying. Has anybody else passed it?
So far I could do 2,6 and 8.
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Twisting wood tiles?
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Twisting wood tiles?
Well, the pillars, the ones that do full 180 degree curves. That said though, they look more like ruins of sorts...
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I saved 86%, and it wasn't easy.
Which level?
I'm still stuck on Level 4.
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I found level 3 fairly easy, and I saved 88%.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb02/4.png)
Timb02 level 4 - But it's down there!
Save: 5/80
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 25
Skills:
Blockers: 1
Builders: 1
Good: A nice design and very limited skills.
Bad: The trick it uses is far too obvious and well known. It might have been better as level 1.
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When I made this level, I didn't know the trick was common.
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One blocker and one builder!? How on Earth are you meant to solve it from that?
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Well, maybe the trick isn't that well known!
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I know pretty much most of the tricks in Custlemm. I knew about the trick where you hit the nuke button and the lemmings bomb the floor and you can save a small amount of lemmings if the exit is below. It took me several tries to pass this level. In the end I saved 7%. If you download this levelpak you will find a readme file containing a description of each level and the solution to each level.
The solution to each level in the file gives too much away :P
Oh and Timballisto when you make levelpaks it would a best idea to cover up the last 1 or 2 levels with blank levels to stop the game from crashing. I'm not trying to criticize you here.
But it usually is best that if you make a levelpak with less than 10 levels you should cover up the unused levels with a blank level to avoid the game from crashing ;)
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I accidentally deleted my review. >:( Andi it would be nice if you made some confirmation thing before deleting.
EDIT: I had it cached somewhere in my browser, so I was able to replicate it.
I saved 86%, and it wasn't easy.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb02/3.png)
Timb02 - Level 3: It was April, 1954, when...
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 75%
Release Rate: 99
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 floater, 2 bombers, 11 builders
Good: It has a lot of great scenery. It is possible to save more than required and there is plenty of time. The skills are very carefully picked. The title fits with the level, it seems related to lots of lemmings dying.
Bad: This is level 3, it shouldn't be this hard to execute. The RR of 99 is evil.
EDIT: I didn't use that hanging thing at all. That could have helped... :P
I found level 3 fairly easy, and I saved 88%.
See the above sentence. I mdae it harder than it should have been.
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I saved the Custlemm level list game somewhere on my computer. I could send an example over msn. I don't know why I do this.
I can't pass Level 5 it's annoying me. I've done 6 and 8 but I'll hopefully pass Level 7.
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Did anybody manage to pass Level 5 or 7?
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I passed everything except 2 and 5. I was only 2 lemmings short on level 5. :P
EDIT: I'm done with the pack now.
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I've given 5 a good few go's, but I'm not progressing too well. You certainly have to be strategic about it.
EDIT: 73% :o
Super EDIT: 83% [smiley=laugh.gif]
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb02/5.png)
Timb02.dat-Level 5: Lemming Tool and Die Co.
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be Saved: 75% (60)
Release Rate: 1
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 3 floaters, 2 bombers, 8 builders, one basher and one digger.
Good: A very, very challenging level that's bursting with originality. The building leaves potential for many solutions, and the player really has to think ahead about their actions. And for the most part, the scnery is excellent (I love the corroded metal!)
Bad: The lava overlap on the left looks awful, and the right side is a little barren.
Well done Timb, an excellent level there :)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb02/6.png)
Timb02.dat-Level 6: Transmission interuption lemming
Number of Lemmings: 40
To be Saved: 80%
Release Rate: 25
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 3 builders,1 basher and 2 miners
Good: A nice level to play with some cool scenery
Bad: Too easy for a 6th level in pack,level 5 is way much harder (can't beat it at all)
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Can't do level 5? Is it the execution of it, or coming up with the solution?
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I looked at the solution for level 5 in the hints file but I can't pull it of correctly.
If you'dd like you could send me some hints in PM :)
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Crikey, I just read the solution in the manual, turns out my route is completely different! Here it is nonetheless.
As soon as the first lemming falls out, make him a floater (You're pushed for time as far as saving the required lemmings goes, so give him his umbrella fairly close to the ground). Make him build as soon as he treks uphill, and he'll inevitably walk in the opposite direction. After his collision with the wall, he'll walk down the upward-spike. This is where precision comes in-I find it best to make him build about a quarter down, perhaps slightly more, so towards the middle edging upwards. If done correctly, he'll have gone just to the tip of the opposite spike. What you do next will depend on the lemmings reaction. If he builds into the spike and is clearly about to give up and walk leftwards, make him a builder immediately. If he doesn't however, and does the traditional shrug, then let him walk until he's facing left on top of the spike, and give him that ol' skill. Whichever way you took, simply let the lemming build. I find this a good time to work around getting the tunnel built, so make the next lemming to escape the trapdoor depths a floater.
This will be a multi tasking session, so be prepared to rush back and forth. Watch the building lemming, and when he bangs his head on the pole, make him build the bridge to the right. The builder's task now is to simply build a ziz-zag bridge that goes high enough until the plummeting lemmings have a safe place to land.
Whilst this is going on, we can't forget about our tunnelling lemming. As soon as the lemming is facing east on the left spike, make him dig onwards. He'll eventually come to the bottom, and when this happens make him bash until our so-called tunnel is complete.
Now the final task of our journey. This final bridge that lies in front of you is complete, and the lemmings are simply left to wander aimlessly on it. Well now we need to blow a lemming up! You'll need a bomber skill in hand, and some incredible timing. If you have any builder skills left, I advise you make him build leftwards on the already-complete bridge. It will slow his movement down, and since we want the gap to appear on the left side, it'll take the pressure off. Now once this has happened simply increase the release rater and enjoy your success!
Sorry, I went a little too in-depth :P
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Wow, I just read both and my solution was exactly the same as yours, Jazzem, except I built from the tip of the left-hand spike and built to the wall and back.
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My solution was completely different from the one in the manual and Jazzem's. There isn't any bomber timing, all the precision is with builders.
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Man... :o So much variation.
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I passed it and yet used another solution where the only real difficulty is timing one bomber to blow up a stair.
[highlight]Make lem 1 a floater and make him turn around.
When he turns around make him build at the very top of the spike,all the way towards the right.
Make another lem a floater and make him build onto the bars.Make the other lem a climber and have him climb up the bars.
When the lemming is on top of the bar,have him build to turn around and have him build one flight of stairs to the right.Now the other lems should have a safe fall height(falling from one stair onto the other).
At a given point make a lemming a bomber to blow up the stair that leads to the bar so all the lems can reach the left spike.
When a lem faces right,have him dig down (be sure not to make a gap for the lems to walk towards the fire) and bash to the right when 1 or 2 pixels of the floor remain.[/highlight]
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Blimey, I don't think you realised quite what you created here Timballisto!
Still, it's a good thing, they all seem about the same difficulity to pull off (Although Levi's looks the easiest), so they're more multiple-routes then back-routes.
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Anyone up for level 7?
I finished every level in this pack except 3 so I can do level 8 :)
Any idea on the next pach we're reviewing?
EDIT:passed level 3 and yet found an easy solution without extremely precise bomber timing (saved 80%) :)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb02/7.png)
Timb02 - Level 7: Lemmings vs. the Steel Industry
Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 80
Release Rate: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 8 builders, 4 bashers, 1 miner, 1 digger
Good: Nice tricky level that has got nice scenery
Bad: A bit too easy to be this far in this levelpak, it can be annoying placing that miner and the builders at the end
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I love that little gravity-defying piece of dirt right on the left :P So lonely!
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I recommend we review Hubbart3 next.
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Aye, if his levels are 1/1,000,000,000 as good as the majority of them look then we'd be in for a treat!
Level 8's a tough nut to crack, how are you meant to get by with so few skills!?
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When you downloaded this pack did you find a readme file with the solution to every level?
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Of course! I forgot about that.
I won't use it word for word, but I'll...Erm, get the general "impression" from it :P
EDIT: Well whaddya know? I only needed the first five words and I was away!
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/timb02/8.png)
Timb02.dat-Level8: Lon Lon
Number of Lemmings:40
To be saved: 75% (30)
Release Rate: 50
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 bomber, 4 builders and 2 bashers.
Good: Fairly challenging level, the scenery is as good as we've come to expect from this pack. The lemmings to save amount is also high enough to provide difficulity.
Bad: Too easy for the last level, especially considering what came before it.
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Number of skills?
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Jazzem you forgot to insert the number of skills used in the level.
Anyway let's start to review Hubbart3. You can download it from www.garjen.co.uk . We already have the screenshots on Shvegait's little website.
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EDIT: Well whaddya know? I only needed the first five words and I was away!
Here's the first five words in the solution-
"The only thing that would"
How exactly did that help you???
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/1.png)
hubbert3.dat-Level 1: The equation
Number of Lemmings: 80
To be saved: 98%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 blocker,1 builder,3 diggers,1 climber
Good: Extremely nice layout and very fun to play,the X and Y axis are awesome.
Bad: Perhaps a bit too easy.
EDIT: Save amount is 98% and not 100% ;)
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It's a brilliant level. By the way Leviathan the save amount is not 100% it's 98%.
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EDIT: Well whaddya know? I only needed the first five words and I was away!
Here's the first five words in the solution-
"The only thing that would"
How exactly did that help you???
Okay, perhaps I was a little mild :P
As soon as I read about a builder, I created the solution straight away.
EDIT: Oh, and sorry for the skill number woes, has been fixed.
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I've passed most levels in this pack. Looks good. Level 9 is a beast!
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Level 1 looks well cool :)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/2.png)
Hubbart3 - Level 2: Welcome to the machine
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 76/80
Release Rate: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 blocker,7 builders,1 basher,3 diggers
Good: nice scenery,more than one way to get to the exit,pretty cool title
Bad: The level is rather small
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Levels 4 and 6 are a pain,I've beaten all the other levels :)
Level 9 is the coolest level I've ever seen :)
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I've passed Levels 4 and 6. I haven't done 7,8 or 10. They are quite annoying. Level 9 is one of the best levels I have ever seen. Those traps also help make that level.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/3.png)
Hubbart3 - Level 3: All for one,one for all
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 93%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 80 climbers,10 bombers,1 builder,4 basher,4 diggers
Good: Nice setup of the rope traps (it's my favourite trap)
Bad: Not much scenery and perhaps a bit too easy especially with those bombers and all those diggers/bashers.
BTW: I came close in solving level 4 but I ran out of time :(
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Good: Nice setup of the rope traps (it's my favourite trap)
It's one of my favourite traps aswell. Another one of my favourite traps is the demoleculariser from the crystal set. Another good piece of information about Level 3 is that you need to figure out how to pass the rope traps without using builders. Pretty cool level could do with some more scenery though. I'm hoping to review Level 5. Somebody else could probably do Level 4 if possible.
Hubbart's levelpaks look really great. The design of each level is always interesting. This is probably their best pack. Dragonslover,Tumble Weed,Insane Steve and Lemeri have also made levels with such interesting designs. I'm sure I had a few interesting designs in my levelpaks.
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I've beaten all levels from this pack now,level 6 wasn't that hard after all :)
Level 4 was the most difficult one in the pack for me.
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Not bad then :)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/4.png)
Hubbart3 - Level 4: Misty Mountain Hop
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 10 climbers,10 floaters, 2 blockers, 3 builder, 1 basher, 2 miners
Good: A challenging level with a time limit you can't be reckless with. The hidden trap has been implemented well too, and those who use strategy will know it's position before they've even encountered it. And for what little there is of it, the scenery is excellent and tiled very well.
Bad: It can be very frustrating to pull off, especially with the horrible time limit (I saved 97% on my last but one attempt!). It's also a little bland aeshetically, and could do with a little bit of decoration towards the left/right sides.
EDIT: Blimey, level 5 was rather easy.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/5.png)
Hubbart3 - Level 5: As cold as ice?
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 20/20
Release Rate: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers,10 floaters,10 bombers,10 blockers,12 builders,2 bashers,1 miner
Good: Nice scenery,title matches with the design of the level
Bad: Most of the skills are not needed to complete the level,well placing that builder can be fairly annoying,this level should have been before level 4
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Useless skills aren't necessarily bad, they can help to make the level more difficult (although obviously they shouldn't be the only thing used to make a challenge);
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Level 5 was too simple.
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Yeah, would've been better as an earlier level.
Anyone done level 6? I've come close, but I've always run out of builders when I've needed them...
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I passed Level 6 but I don't want to review 2 levels in a row. It took me ages to find the right route out the level. I kept going in the center of the area to get to the exit but instead I went under and did it. Level 7 and Level 8 have been bugging me for a while but I almost did Level 10 and I lost.
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Anyone thought about doing one of my packs next?
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Yeah sure thing. Haven't got the screenshots yet but hopefully Shvegait will get them. I wouldn't mind doing your 1st or your 2nd levelpak.
Is anybody going to review Level 6 or am I just going to get ignored?
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I am sorry JM, I've tried all I can with level 6 but I'm still failing :(
I need to strengthen my strategy, I'm not thinking ahead as much as I should be.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/6.png)
Hubbart3 - Level 6: A funny grid
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 6 builders,5 bashers,1 miner and 1 digger.
Good: Nice looking level,challenging and the title suits the level.
Bad: Too many annoying terrain traps (especially those near the exit).
Maybe a hint I can give you Jazzem: don't try to get higher up,I solved it by building from the bottom right pixel in the middle to the section at the exit.If build properly the lemmings should be able to pass a gap in the grid somewhere near the exit.To reach the exit just build into it.
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Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 6 builders,5 bashers,1 miner and 1 digger.
100%? Not having looked at the level for real, from the screenshot, I find it hard to believe that every lemming out of the highest entrance can be saved? :-?
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Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 6 builders,5 bashers,1 miner and 1 digger.
100%? &#A0;Not having looked at the level for real, from the screenshot, I find it hard to believe that every lemming out of the highest entrance can be saved? :-?
There's hidden terrain inside the top of the lowest entrance :)
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That level took me months to figure out. My solution was the same as yours Leviathan. Basically the only levels I haven't passed are 7,8 and 10. I might try and pass the 3 of them later.
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Most of the levels in Hubbart's levelpaks seem quite straightforward. Haven't really passed all the levels in this pack as I'm too busy but expect my 4th levelpak to be better than my first 3 packs :P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/7.png)
Hubbart3 - Level 7: Lemming Chemistry
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 98%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,
Good: A nice use of the crystal graphics to create some effective, imaginitive scenery. It's a fairly challenging level too, and will require some investigation.
Bad: The hidden trap is implemented very badly, and punishes the player for doing no wrong. The time limit is also ridiculous, and it makes it impossible to complete without several tries.
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Bad: Time limit is far too long, It can take just 3-4 minutes to finish the level
I've noticed that time limits are a repeated complaint about my levels. I often only put a restrictive time limit if that was part of the challenge. A lot of my levels aren't meant to have restrictive time limits, and The Warp Room is one of those.
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Bad: Time limit is far too long, It can take just 3-4 minutes to finish the level
I've noticed that time limits are a repeated complaint about my levels. I often only put a restrictive time limit if that was part of the challenge. A lot of my levels aren't meant to have restrictive time limits, and The Warp Room is one of those.
Don't worry about it. People seemed to be in a "I can't think of anything bad about the level so I'll just complain about the time limit" mode at that time. It had very little to do with your levels in particular.
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Very much agreed; of course sometimes you want a particular time limit to force the player to think a bit harder about how to do the level, but if not then I don't think it makes any difference what you choose. It certainly doesn't make it a worse level.
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If you had a level called "Just three minutes" and you only needed 1 or 2 minutes to complete the level then you could complain about the time limit.
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I've noticed that time limits are a repeated complaint about my levels. I often only put a restrictive time limit if that was part of the challenge. A lot of my levels aren't meant to have restrictive time limits, and The Warp Room is one of those.
[smiley=agree.gif]A lot of levels in Lemmings provide more time than you need, and this is often a good thing. &#A0;I would only complain about an excessive time limit if, for example, you had 8 minutes to beat a 30-second level, or something ridiculous like that.
If you had a level called "Just three minutes" and you only needed 1 or 2 minutes to complete the level then you could complain about the time limit.
Another good point. &#A0;I notice this whenever I play "The Fast Food Kitchen." &#A0;The level is beatable in under two minutes, plus I actually beat it once without even multitasking.
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Yep that's the good point. There was a level that we reviewed and the title was "Just three minutes" and we only needed two minutes to pass the level.
Has anyone passed the last 3 levels of the levelpak then?
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That trap on Level 7 was sure poorly placed. Apparently there was a route where I saved 100%. Possibly was a backroute. The only level I haven't passed now is Level 10. Now I can review Level 8.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/8.png)
Hubbart3 - Level 8: Welcome to the machine again
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 95%
Time: 3 minutes
Release Rate: 1
Skills: 1 climber,1 blocker,7 builders,1 basher,3 diggers
Good: A harder version of the original "Welcome to the machine". The traps have been implemented nicely and the level is quite difficult to pass.
Bad: This level should have been the last in the pack. All the other levels in the pack are very straightforward.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/9.png)
Hubbart3 - Level 9: Storm and Thunder
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 92%
Time: 2 minutes
Release Rate: 1
Skills: 3 blockers,3 builders, 2 miners
Good: Another example of Hubbart's jaw dropping skill when it comes to level aesthetics. It's a fairly fun level too, and the strict save limit is something to abide by.
Bad: Very easy, especially for the ninth level. It's also a little bit of a wasted oppurtunity, I feel it would have been better to somehow involve the cloud in the solution, rather then restrict it to the rain.
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Did anyone notice that in level 9, you can simply use the compression method? Just make lem1 build a few steps, block, and block lem 2 when he turns around. Then RR-99 and mine under lem1.
I have no idea what the intended solution is.
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Another good point. &#A0;I notice this whenever I play "The Fast Food Kitchen." &#A0;The level is beatable in under two minutes, plus I acutally beat it once without even multitasking.
That might be a side effect of the speed difference between the PC and Amiga version. I haven't tried the Amiga version for that level, but given that certain PC and Mac solutions for Just a Minute Part II times out on the Amiga version, the same is likely true for the Fast Food Kitchen as well.
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I beat Level 9 a lot of times. It really is too easy to be the ninth level. So what pack should be reviewed next then after Level 10 is reviewed?
We could do one of Christo Marquez's levelpaks (CRISFN01-15),one of Paris's levelpacks (PACPACK1-2),another one of Shvegait's packs,Anatol's levelpak,Another one of Dragonslover's packs or maybe another levelpak from another author.
I haven't been Level 10 yet but has anyone else done it?
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I've beaten level 10 with a large amount of ease...I'm sure you can beat it too :P
I don't have time ro review now,I might do it later today if no-one else reviews before I do :)
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I managed to pass all the levels in the pack including Level 10 ;D
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart3/10.png)
Hubbart3 - Level 10: Windows XP?
80 Lems
100% to save
RR: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 12 builders, 5 diggers
Good: Nice design/title... You have to think outside the box ;)
Bad: For the last level in the pack, it is really rather easy. And the boxes aren't all of equal size!
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I would like to review one of shvegait's packs. They're all good. :)
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Is it OK to review Schveg03?
It seems to contain a load of nice looking and difficult levels :)
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Are we agreed on a Shvegait pak then? I'm all up for it, but weren't we going to do an MC Marshy one?
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It's all the same for me :)
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Yeah, we were going to do an MC Marshy pack first. Which one though?
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What about the third pack?
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Let's do Marshy03 then do Shveg03 :)
We can start reviewing Marshy03 although we ain't got the screenshots up yet. You can download the fixed version of the levelpak from The Lemmings file portal.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/1.png)
Marshy03 - Level 1: Let's go to the moon
50 Lemmings
50% to save
RR: 50
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 10 of everything except bashers.
Good: Easy level to start the pak, and a faithful recreation of a genesis/mega drive level...
Bad: That hasn't changed at all! It's exactly the same as the level it's based on, some little improvements in the difficulity/design would have been appreciated.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/2.png)
Marshy03 - Level 2: Go out for a walk?
Lemmings: 50
Save: 50%
Release Rate: 87
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 blocker,1 bomber,3 builders,5 diggers
Good: Nice DOS version of the genesis level "Go out for a walk"?
Bad: The time limit and save percentage seem ridiculous and the exit has been misplaced.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/3.png)
Marshy03 - Level 3: Salvage Boat
Lemmings: 30
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 01
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 12 builders, 1 basher, 2 miners
Good: No idea.
Bad: Pretty much an exact replica. If you remake a level, at least change SOMETHING!
EDIT: Level 6 took one minute flat, and all I did was bash and crank up the RR. The time limit should have been one minute.
The difficulty curve is really weird, the first 6 levels are almost pointless (1-5 are the genesis remakes). Level 9 is in a world of its own.
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It seems on the other Genesis replicas that there is 1 or 2 things changed. A route on level 5 has been changed or it is a backroute but Levels 7-10 seem rather cool. I think Level 9 is amazing. Level 8 seems to have been inspired by an original level. Level 6 also seems inspired by an original level. The genesis levels are also cooler than the other original levels but it always seems that genesis levels that are an exact replica of the level in Custlemm always have everything about them criticized when nothing is changed.
Think of the scenery etc :P
There will always still be something good about them but this topic is still to make authors create better levels ;)
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OK. The screenshots for marshy03 are up. I'll go ahead and add the other ones as well.
Remember... whether the screenshots are up yet or not, you can still include the filepath that points to where the screenshot will be, because it is set up to be 100% predictable...
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I can't pass level 9 but I passed all the other levels...level 6 is like,well, "just bash" :P
Actually I love pixel precise Genesis remakes but indeed they should need some difference :)
I'm remaking FANL at the moment trying to be pixel-precise...turns out that not the missing thin pieces are the worst problem but the big bending pillars are...they gave me a headache :)
Only one of the thin pieces isn't possible to place at the right place so one thin piece has other colours...
As for the solution I'll try to implement a completely different one :)
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I could pass all the levels in the pack. I managed to pass Level 10 without any fuss ;)
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As for the solution I'll try to implement a completely different one :)
Set the time limit to 2 minutes and move the exit further to the right. :)
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As for the solution I'll try to implement a completely different one :)
Set the time limit to 2 minutes and move the exit further to the right. :)
Is that for part 1 or part 2?
I've completely made part 1 now,and modifying for part 2 will take some time (the crucial area is the most difficult thing to get right).
How far should the exit move to the right?I'm sure right now it's at the very exact location as it is in Genesis.
Only one of the thin pieces isn't possible to place at the right place so one thin piece has other colours...
Looks like I handled the terain not in the right order,if my logics are right,it IS possible to put the thin piece at the crucial point ;)
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That's for part 2.
Move it waaaay over, roughly 40 seconds worth. But maybe that should be my level....
EDIT: Who's doing level 4?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/4.png)
Marshy03 - Level 4: Don't leave any lemmings
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 50%
RR: 1
Time: 9 minutes
Tools: 30 bombers,30 blockers,30 builders
Good: Well the terrain is different from the original version of the level
Bad: The title does not match since you can't save 100% to finish the level
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/4.png)
Marshy03 - Level 4: Don't leave any lemmings
Lemmings: 50
Save: 50%
Release Rate: 01
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 30 builders, 30 bombers, 30 blockers
Good: Good looking level design but...
Bad: Way too easy with all those builders and blockers and the time limit is really rediculous...also too low save percentage.
If you're up for a small challenge,try level 7 with 100% :)
Level 5 contains a major flaw compared to the genesis version,and the level is impossible in LemEdit 2 I guess (due to fall distance)
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Level 5 contains a major flaw compared to the genesis version,and the level is impossible in LemEdit 2 I guess (due to fall distance)
I thought Genesis lemmings use the same standard fall distance as CustLem2, so unless the problem is part of the "major flaw", you should survive the same falls as you would on the Genesis. (I haven't looked at the level.)
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Level 5 contains a major flaw compared to the genesis version,and the level is impossible in LemEdit 2 I guess (due to fall distance)
I thought Genesis lemmings use the same standard fall distance as CustLem2, so unless the problem is part of the "major flaw", you should survive the same falls as you would on the Genesis. &#A0;(I haven't looked at the level.)
The thing is that level 5 is possible in CustLem but I think the same route isn't possible in Genesis and Custlem2...I'll check it out right now :)
EDIT: I looked in Genesis and the backroute is impossible,not due to fall distance but due to a faulty trigger area of a trap.
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Level 5 sure has a fault but it's able to be passed. Who's doing it?
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If you're up for a small challenge,try level 7 with 100% :)
If I remember correctly the only levels that aren't 100%able are 4 and 8. One is lost in level 4, 6 (5 might be possible) are lost in level 8.
EDIT: lose 5 probably isn't possible in level 8.
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How the hell can you only lose one on level 4? :-/
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The thing is that level 5 is possible in CustLem but I think the same route isn't possible in Genesis and Custlem2...I'll check it out right now :)
Oh ok. earlier you made it sound like the route works in Genesis but not Custlem2.
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How the hell can you only lose one on level 4? :-/
Remember, you have 30 builders...
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Who else has passed Level 5?
You know when the lemmings are reaching the shredder trap? Before they walk onto the step you can start bashing and they will fall to the ground and land safely. I've passed all other levels.
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How the hell can you only lose one on level 4? &#C2;&#A0;:-/
See the horizontal platforms above the trapdoor and below the exit? I believe it's just thin enough (5 pixels) that if you build right up to it, the lemmings can walk up and thru the platform.
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No need for the mayhem 2 trick, the platforms are 5 pixels thick as cce said. There are plenty of builders.
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Who else has passed Level 5?
You know when the lemmings are reaching the shredder trap? Before they walk onto the step you can start bashing and they will fall to the ground and land safely.
That's exactly how I solved it and this route isn't possible in Genesis (and maybe not in Custlem2 but I'm not sure as I don't have CustLem2).
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Is somebody going to review Level 5?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/5.png)
Marshy03 - Level 5: Room with no exit
Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 80
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 50 bashers
Good: Another faithful Mega drive remake...
Bad: That hasn't changed! Again! It's also one of the easiest (If not the easiest) mega drive exclusive levels, so it should be much earlier in the pak. And to top off, it has the same irritating problem of the original version-The lemmings take so long to get to the exit!
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/6.png)
Marshy03 - Level 6: Only two minutes
65 Lems
100% to save
RR: 40
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 basher
Good: ...
Bad: A bit insulting, actually! The time limit is not tight and all, and it's possible in just one minute. (Or maybe 1:01, it's hard to tell.)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/7.png)
Marshy3 - Level 7: Marshall's lemmings
&#A0; &#A0;
50 Lems
72% to save &#A0;
RR: 30
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 6 of each except 5 builders and blockers.
Good: There are multiple possible solutions which ads a replay value to the level and 100% is possible.
Bad: As with most levels of this pack,no difficulty at all.
BTW,I passed level 9 now with 1 spare builder...this level is one "mayhem" level between all "fun" leevls :)
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I really like the layout of Level 7 although it would look better if the design was completely symmetrical.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/8.png)
Marshy3 - Level 8: Compression Period
60 Lems
86% to save
RR: 90
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: One bomber, ten blockers
Good: Gotta love the compression method! A nice symmetrical design too.
Bad: Knowing the trick is knowing the level straight away, it feels like a simplified version of the level it borrows from rather then an enhancement.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/9.png)
Marshy03 - Level 9: You got a murder scene there
40 Lems
100% to save
RR: 15
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 10 builders, 2 bashers
Good: Nice design and title. Not as easy as the levels before it.
Bad: For the most difficult level in the pack, it is still rather easy (I don't see what all the fuss is about...). Just straight building to seal off a path, and then you're done.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/marshy03/10.png)
Marshy03 - Level 10: no way out
&#A0; &#A0;
70 Lems
78% to save &#A0;
RR: 60
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 3 climbers,1 floater,4 bombers,8 builders,10 bashers,2 miners and 6 diggers
Good: You can try to find a solution involving every skill I guess...replay value.
Bad:
-The design really looks like a failed attempt to recreate FANL.
-100% is possible using only 1 skill.
-The time limit and ammount of skills are really rediculous.
I look forward to playing your next pack,this one was just too easy ;)
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The way out was the wall next to the entrance but a rope trap was hidden inside and it's easy to avoid once you know where it exactly is. Some traps have been placed on a wall to prevent lemmings from climbing it ;)
I'm also looking forward to Marshy's next pack.
Shveg03 is the next levelpak to review.
We already have the screenshots for the pack and you can download the levelpak from this link
http://jx3.net/tdg/shve/shveg03.dat
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These are certainly very difficult levels...so far I can only pass level 3 (in a minute of time,one spare digger and no climbers used at all).
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Pretty sure that's a backroute.
Oh, and I apologize in advance for Level 5. It's only in the pack because I needed a 10th level and was pressed for time. There's probably an easy way to pass it, though. Several levels in this pack are likely to have backroutes... And a couple require some umm... Lemmings/CustLemm-only behavior. Not up to the level of "glitch", but something that isn't completely as one would expect.
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I could only pass Level 2. Has anyone passed level 1?
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I passed Level 1 after all this hard work
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg03/1.png)
Shveg03 - Level 1: Gotta keep 'em seperated
Number of Lemmings: 2
Save: 2/2
Release Rate: 99
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 climbers,2 bombers,2 blockers,3 builders,2 bashers,2 miners,2 diggers
Good: Some nice scenery,cool title and just similar to Tumble Weed's stalker level
Bad: Once you know how to pass the level then it is rather straightforward
This pack is definitely for experts :P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg03/2.png)
Shveg03 - Level 2: To each his own
Number of Lemmings: 5
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 95
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 2 of each except bombers and blockers
Good:
-Great level design,that set is the most difficult to design levels with ;)
-Perfect time limit
-Well balanced skills
-Title suits the level (if there are no backroutes)
-Very nice and original concept of making a level
Bad: Just because I need to say a bad point too,I guess the precision is a bit annoying sometimes (altough I didn't expierience any problems with it)
This is definately one of the finest levels I've ever played and I would have loved to see such levels in ONML...
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So far 1,2,3. I did level 3 with one basher and lots of climbers.
Level 4 with 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger, 1 climber.
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Leviathan and tseug, can I ask how you passed Level 3? They both seem to be backroutes.
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Leviathan and tseug, can I ask how you passed Level 3? They both seem to be backroutes.
I'm sure I passed that level the same way. I've so far passed Levels 1,2 and 3. Level 7 is really annoying to pull off.
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Ha! This level remembers me of a level in another game called The Incredible Machine. There were 5 boys that needed to go to 4 different home. The last one died by a crocodile. It looks like the same thing here but now with Lemmings. :D
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Ha, I didn't even think of that. Maybe I borrowed the idea subconsciously :P
Funny too, in case no one's ever played The Incredible Machine/2, the boy's name is Mel Schlemming, obviously derived from Lemming :)
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I passed it with two builders, two bashers and one digger, but I think I also know tseug's solution.
My solution: [highlight]Have the first lemming build two pixels, and bash. Make lemmings 2 & 3 build to create a seven or more px step with help of the diggers pit. Bash through the wall.[/highlight]
The solution I think that tseug did it that way: [highlight]Set the RR in a way that the following trick works, it might be necessary to change the RR a second time after the second lemmings came out: First lemming bashes, the following lemmings get climbers. They should climb in the basher's tunnel, fall down, climb, ... and won't turn around.[/highlight] I didn't check this solution though.
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Ha, I didn't even think of that. Maybe I borrowed the idea subconsciously :P
Funny too, in case no one's ever played The Incredible Machine/2, the boy's name is Mel Schlemming, obviously derived from Lemming :)
That's right! Nice remark!
Invert "Mel" to give "Lem" and "lemming" is in "Schlemming. Looks like they have played the game and wanted to do the same thing in their one.
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Who's up for Level 3?
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Level 3 sure is irritating, it looks horrendously easy, and ends up being the opposite!
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Yeah it sure does. I managed to figure out how to pass the level though. Level 7 is a really annoying level. I keep thinking that 10 lemmings go to one exit and 10 lemmings go to the other. It's too annoying to pull off.
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For level 3: Set the RR to 88. When out 1 set the RR to 84. Make the first lem bash. Make the rest climbers. :)
For level 4: Make the first lem dig, then make another one build in the left edge of the pit when it is 2 pixels deep (#4 I think). Make the lem that falls into the pit when it is 7 pixels deep a climber so no lemmings are left in the pit. When the digger hits the bottom of the block, make him build on thin air. Make one of the lems in the crowd bash away a step so the rest will fall and land on the other bridge.
EDIT: I completely backrouted level 5. It goes roughly like this: Use 4 builders to cover the trap. Use 5 builders and a basher to get to the exit.
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Maybe because geoo was referring to a solution for LEVEL 3... not 4... If you noticed he said it was his solution, not yours (actually the one he said was yours was spot on), and no one was even talking about level 4 :P Please obfuscate your post, tseug...
(Btw, that's the intended solution. Actually, it was originally a backroute to Level 1 of my first pack, but since it's essentially the only solution that works in under 1 minute, I made it its own level. Actually, you don't need even need the semi-glitch part if you change around the order of your moves, although I didn't think about that until I tried making a Cheapo remake of it, because that glitch doesn't work... but other Cheapo behavior made the level too easy anyway.)
And your backroute for level 5 I presumed was possible, but the intended solution isn't even interesting, so it doesn't matter :P
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That makes more sense. [smiley=XD.gif]
I think there are other ways to do level 4.
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My solution for level 3 was different. It was the same as the solution Leviathan used for it. Is somebody reviewing Level 3 then?
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I can't review it,as I've reviewed level 2 :)
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I found one solution to level 4 that doesn't use the building-on-thin-air trick. It's harder than the intended solution and uses more skills, so it hardly counts as a backroute. :P
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I said before that you don't need the glitch... But is your solution at least similar to the other in general terms?
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It goes outside... does that make it not similar?
EDIT: I had a climber left for level 6. Is that right?
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Yep, not similar. And no. But like I said, this pack is likely to have some backroutes...
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg03/3.png)
Shveg03 - Level 3: Another Impasse
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 50
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 20 climbers,2 builders,2 bashers,2 diggers
Good: Nice scenery and a challenging level just like all of this pack
Bad: 1 of the solutions seems to be a backroute but the other solution I don't know if it is a backroute or not
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I've passed every level in this pack, but some of my solutions weren't weird enough for me. ;) Specifically I will try to find another way to do level 8, lose 3 on level 9, and save more than 25% on level 10.
EDIT: I managed 40% (32 lems) on level 10.
EDIT2: There are so many solutions to level 9 that just b a r e l y don't work. Bleh, time for level 8.
EDIT3: It looks possible to "Take the stairs" on level 8, but it would be hard. Back to level 9.
EDIT4: I managed to lose 3 on level 9, that concludes my attempts.
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I could only do Levels 1,2 and 3. I keep being tricked into thinking that Level 9 is impossible. I like the idea of Level 10 as it is split into 4 levels. Levels that are like that are cool. I'm pretty sure that Level 8 is the level that got inspired by "I am A.T"
Who's going to review Level 4 or so then?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg03/4.png)
Shveg03 - Level 4: Hurry up,it's time
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 95
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 2 climbers,2 floaters,4 builders,2 bashers,1 digger
Good: Cool scenery and very pressing time limit (I got the last lem in when the timer just reached zero).
Bad: The solution itself is very easy and only the time limit makes it difficult to pull off.
I've beaten level 10 now too with exactly 25% but no hope so far on levels 5-9...
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Level 7 and Level 10 have been bugging me for ages. I kept being tricked into thinking that Level 5 is rather easy when I first played the pack. I just have 7 levels or so then I've completed the pack.
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Thanks to all you guys who reviewed my 3rd levelpak. My 4th pack will be better. Next time I re-make a genesis level I will make sure I always change something :)
Oh Cool. Shvegait's 3rd pack is being reviewed now and it seems to have backroutes. Oh well I'm sure there's a level or two in there with no backroutes ;)
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I'm also sure that there is a level or two in there with no backroutes.
Who's going to review Level 5?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg03/5.png)
Shveg03 - Level 5: 100% Recycled Lemming
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 75%
Release Rate: 90
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 10 builders, 3 bashers
Good: Most of the level is used. Most of the level is also scenery. The high realease rate makes it a bit tricky. The hidden trap is actually implemented well. Possible to save 100%.
Bad: Too easy (for me anyway). It has a backroute that kind of ruins the level, but only if you know what it is.
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Could you PM me about the solution for level 5?
It seems impossible to me ;)
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Wellll... maybe I was wrong. I sent a PM explaining my solution.
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I like the design of Level 5. It's nice and symmetrical. I've so far done Levels 1,2,3,5,7,9 and 10. Level 6 is too annoying to pull off but I finally passed Level 7 after guessing that the lemmings had to walk over a trap.
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but I finally passed Level 7 after guessing that the lemmings had to walk over a trap.
Yeah, that's a backroute. I tried but failed to eliminate it :(
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I keep getting stuck on Level 6. It's well annoying to pull off. I'm ok about Level 8 I think I can solve that easily. So far Levels 1,2,3,5,7,9 and 10 have all been passed by me. Took me a few months to pass any level from this pack.
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What was intended for level 7? I passed it the same way as JM.
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You're supposed to use some weird Lemmings behavior, dealing with hmm, I'll be a little vague, but climbers and/or floaters. It requires a pixel-perfect move, but only one. I guess I could just make that trap a pit...
Seems like everyone has passed all the levels in this pack using backroutes (except I guess levels 1 and 2... I'm pretty sure a backroute for 2 exists though, but I forget what it is), which I'm not really surprised about. Sometimes fixing a backroute makes the intended solution stand out a bit more, though, and I'm not sure I want that either. But I'll probably make an at least partially fixed version of this pack sometime soon...
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg03/6.png)
Shveg03 - Level 6: Now try saving them all
Number of Lemmings: 54
Save: 100%
RR: 99
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 blocker,1 builder,3 bashers,2 miners,1 digger
Good: Title matches since you should save all the lemmings, some nice amount of scenery, rather hard level
Bad: The solution is rather annoying to pull off and the high release rate is really annoying.
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I didn't even bother trying level 6 yet...it looks very cool but on the other hand it's way too chaotic to begin searching for a solution...it's even tricky from the start since I guess you need to make the second lem a blocker,to be released somehow later in the level...
I can't pass levels 6,7,8 and 9...I did level 10 with exactly 25% )
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I couldn't do Level 6. It was far too hard for me. The Release Rate was evil. I might have a go at Level 8. Level 7 probably did have a backroute so who's going to do Level 7?
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Level 6 is an extension of the 9th level of my first pack (same terrain, different skills/save%), and the assumption is that you've at least worked with that level to some extent, so that the complexities should break down a bit. The reason for the strange terrain in the first place is because I made up the solution (to the original level) first, then tried coming up with a terrain that would allow the different steps to be executed. Then I needed to obfuscate the solution a little bit and prevent some backroutes, and the result is kind of a mess, but oh well. [smiley=tongue.gif]
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I liked the design of the level. Well maybe you could make a tidied up version of the level :P
I think I know how to pass Level 8 but I keep failing. I well had to guess how to do Level 10. Level 9 was almost impossible to do but I figured it out several months later. The only levels I haven't done are 4,6 and 8. Shveg02 seems to be your easiest pack Shvegait.
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The reason for the strange terrain in the first place is because I made up the solution (to the original level) first, then tried coming up with a terrain that would allow the different steps to be executed. Then I needed to obfuscate the solution a little bit and prevent some backroutes, and the result is kind of a mess, but oh well. [smiley=tongue.gif]
The result is a very nice-looking level, actually ;)
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Shveg02 seems to be your easiest pack Shvegait.
Maybe... level 5 is a bit tricky....
Or maybe that was just a typo?
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Tseug are you reviewing Level 7? I can't review it because I reviewed Level 6. I'll play the rest of the pack later when I get the time. Right now I'm busy with some work.
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I might. btw I found another solution, it uses a glitch and needs 3 pixel precise moves. There was nothing strange involving climbers and/or floaters.
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Tseug you could probably review Level 7. I'm going to try and pass Level 8 if possible. Could you also PM me the solution involving the glitch?
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I found a backroute to level 2, just dig/bash/mine to the exit slightly to the left of the entrance.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg03/7.png)
Shveg03 - Level 7: Crossing paths
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 100%
RR: 20
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers, 10 floaters, 2 builders, 2 bashers
Good: Challenging level that is much harder than it looks. Very well designed.
Bad: Several backroutes, but I suppose that's nothing new. :P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg03/8.png)
Shveg03 - Level 8: Take the stairs!
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 50/50
Release Rate: 25
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: All with 10 but builders and miners
Good: Has a brilliant level design,has great amount of tools that make you find the correct solution,the release rate is
perfect,time limit is ok,level is inspired by the famous "I am A.T." level from the genesis version
Bad: The start screen has been placed in the wrong area,the solution can be very annoying to pull off and it's rather
annoying having to start over and over again because you end up messing up when placing those bashers
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Uuuhh... I think I found a huge backroute without knowing. One use of the wild 15 trick and it's easy. :P
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You're going to have to explain yourself there...
"Wild 15 trick" doesn't mean anything to me. What did you do?
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I sent a PM explaining the wild 15 trick. It should be pretty obvious what to do after you use it. You could fix this backroute by making the block larger.
Who's doing level 9? That one can be done with one skill.... ;)
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Tseug you could do Level 9 couldn't you? I passed it but I can't review it as I did Level 8.
What levelpak is next for review?
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Level 9 may be the one level without backroutes in this pack, after all ;)
tseug: May I ask how many skills (diggers, bashers) you used for your level 8 solution? I'm thinking your solution uses 1 more of one of the skills than the intended solution does..
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Thanks Shvegait. I passed that level the same way as Tseug. I don't think Level 1 has a backroute either but Level 2 and 3 have backroutes. I don't think my solution to Level 5 was a backroute. Shvegait could you please e-mail me a copy of your 4th pack so I could check some of it out? My email is thetransplants2@hotmail.com
Could somebody review Level 9?
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Level 9 may be the one level without backroutes in this pack, after all ;)
The intended solution uses one skill???? The only level that I haven't found any backroutes for is level 1.
My solution used 10 bashers and 10 diggers
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg03/9.png)
Shveg03 - Level 9: Pipe Dream
Number of Lemmings: 40
Save: 36/40
Release Rate: 01
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber, 1 blocker, 1 basher, 1 digger
Good: Excellent title. Very well designed.
Bad: There are way too many skills and several ways of completing it.
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I could only do the level with 1 skill aswell. The climber,blocker and basher aren't really needed to pass this level. Seemed impossible for me until I found out what the solution was. Anybody able to do Level 10?
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Hmm... Actually, tseug, could you explain your solution to Level 9? The intended solution does indeed use only one skill... but, perhaps you solved it in some way I didn't anticipate.
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That's weird, the intended solution uses only one skill. :o I solved it several other ways. The first was: [highlight]Block so that 2 lems end up to the right of the blocker, and 37 end up in a small space to the left. After they're all out, make one of the two lems dig close to the blocker. Make the other one bash to release the blocker. If you do it right you should end up saving 36.[/highlight]
EDIT: Updated my review.
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Ooooh. I see. Well, I wanted to give the more than just the one skill you need, because you can be confused into thinking you need the other skills. That's a good solution you have there... Hmm... I guess the only way to prevent it is by taking out one of those skills, although I'd rather not. I'll try thinking of another way of preventing that...
My question was also about your one-skill solution. What did you do?
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I only found one way to pass the level. It only worked for me once. When we finish reviewing this levelpak could we review Mikepak00.dat (One of Dragonslover's packs)? It can be downloaded from www.garjen.co.uk and we already have the screenshots for it.
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[highlight]For the one skill solution set the RR to 26, then dig when they're all out. Another solution that springs to mind is one that uses the digger and blocker, my first lose 3 solution.[/highlight]
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That's just how I passed the level Tseug. Is somebody able to review Level 10?
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tseug, the challenge in the level is supposed to be that you have to do that first thing you mentioned, which most people wouldn't unless they're already accustomed to trying that or exhausted other options... I suppose I could take out the blocker... I really do hate that Wild 15 trick... :-/ (I know there's that other solution that doesn't require it, but still.)
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I know about a wild 15 glitch but not about a trick...what's the trick?
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They could be the same thing, depending on what you mean by Wild 15 glitch.
What I used to call the Wild 15 glitch, it appears most people considered merely as a trick. It's true though that in my quest for 48/50 on Wild 15, I found two solutions, one using a very definitely glitch, the other using this glitch/trick that tseug would be referring to.
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Could you PM me about the trick/glitch?
I definately know the glitch solution but I won't spoil it in public :)
Anyone up to level 10 of this pack?
I would like to do level 1 of the next pack,as I used an interesting route for that :)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg03/10.png)
Shveg03 - Level 10:Oh, the possibilites...
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 20/80
Time: 1 minute
RR: 99
Skills: 1 of everything
Good: Nice confusing level where you have to figure out which block of the level to use a solution on,has some good scenery
Bad: The middle two blocks don't worrying about, it's only the left and right blocks where you have to save lemmings from,
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Bad: The middle two blocks don't worrying about, it's only the left and right blocks where you have to save lemmings from,
Yep, however, I bet others will disagree with you, because of backroutes.
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I was trying to figure out a solution where you would use the exit from another group for the other group of lemmings but I wasn't successfull...There might be an "out of the box" solution somewhere tough.
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Let's review Mikepak00 next. Can be downloaded from www.garjen.co.uk and screenshots are ready.
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I was trying to figure out a solution where you would use the exit from another group for the other group of lemmings but I wasn't successfull...There might be an "out of the box" solution somewhere tough.
There is, and it's actually the intended one. :)
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Anyone ready to review Mikepak00?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak00/1.png)
Mikepak00 - Level 1: Only practice
Number of Lemmings: 40
Save: 75%
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 30
Skills: 10 of everything
Good: Nice looking level and an interesting 100% solution without builders is possible.
Bad: Way too many skills given.
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I have passed the whole pack :)
Is anybody else able to review Level 2 because I want to review level 3.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak00/2.png)
Mikepak00 - Level 2: It's easy!
Number of Lemmings: 40
Save: 100%
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 30
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 2 builders, 2 miners, 1 digger.
Good: Interesting design, and a great solution to boot.
Bad: Perhaps a little plain aesthetically,
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak00/3.png)
Mikepak00 - Level 3: Only clambering !
Number of Lemmings: 30
Save: 30/40
Time: 10 minutes
Release Rate: 10
Skills: 30 builders,10 of everything else
Good: A nice amount of scenery
Bad: Long and boring,has no puzzle
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That level's tiring!
This pack really has some tedious levels but there are some than take less than 5 minutes to complete which ain't bad :)
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Not all the levels in this pack are long. Who's doing level 4?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak00/4.png)
Mikepak00 - Level 4: In the Artical Base...
Number of Lemmings: 40
Save: 75
Time: 10 minutes
Release Rate: 10
Skills: 15
Good: Excellent scenery. The trap has been well implemented, and there's many ways to get around it. The spider web also follows this rule, it's a fair bumpy ride to get through yet there's many ways to tackle it.
Bad: Lo-o-o-o-ong! As nice as the crystal overlap is, the puzzle would have remained just as strong if it was omitted.
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And another point you didn't mention: there's no such word as "artical" ;) Article? Arctic? Who knows?
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Is anyone doing Level 5? I'm hoping to review Level 6 and 8.
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And another point you didn't mention: there's no such word as "artical" ;) Article? Arctic? Who knows?
That's what they call nitpicking :P
Good point actually, didn't notice that... Well it has something to do with overlapping crystals and spider webs!
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Is anyone doing Level 5?
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I've completed it (100%!) but I can't do the same level twice.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak00/5.png)
Mikepak00 - Level 5: In the cavern...
Number of Lemmings: 40
Save: 75%
Release Rate: 20
Time:5 minutes
Skills: 10 of everything
Good: Good amount of scenery and the time limit is perfect for the level
Bad: This level isn't even a challenge!
Dragonslover I know you have made better levels in your later packs ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak00/6.png)
Mikepak00 - Level 6: Welcome in the HOT cavern !
Number of Lemmings: 60
Save: 83%
Release Rate: 20
Time: 10 minutes
Skills: 30 builders,10 of everything else
Good: Pretty cool title, has a nice layout
Bad: Long and tedious!! These type of levels are easy to mess up on >:(
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Why does everyone ignore this topic?
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A topic with over 1700 posts and 20,000 views can hardly be called "ignored" :P
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I think he's meaning why is nobody bothered to review a level.
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Well, for that matter why isn't he bothering to review level 7?
Maybe it's because people don't find this pack particularly interesting. As you say, too many long levels that are mostly building and not enough puzzle. (My first pack was like that too.)
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Level 7 is a short level and so is Level 9. I've taken care of the long boring levels with no puzzle. So I'm ready to review Level 8 when somebody has reviewed Level 7. I could also take care of Level 10 if possible.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak00/7.png)
Mikepak00 - Level 7: Lemmings on the boat
Number of Lemmings: 60
Save: 75%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 10 bombers, 10 blockers, 10 builders and 10 bashers.
Good: Nice use of the scenery for the boat, and a compact level which makes a good change from the large levels beforehand.
Bad: Simple in challenge and design! I like the boat, but it's very plain and basic. There's not a lot of challenge to it either.
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Now I can take care of Level 8 ;)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak00/8.png)
Mikepak00 - Level 8: Palace Midas
Number of Lemmings: 60
Save: 83%
Release Rate: 20
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 20 of everything
Good: Cool scenery, the level really looks like a palace, nice title :)
Bad: Yet again, another long and boring level, it's boring watching the bashers bash through the pillars
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak00/9.png)
Mikepak00 - Level 9: Need some tools ?
Number of Lemmings: 10
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 20
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 2 builders, 20 miners
Good: Interesting level with a nice, puzzley solution.
Bad: Easy for it's place, and you could have moved the titular question mark a character back :P
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Now we just have Level 10 left.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/mikepak00/10.png)
Mikepak00 - Level 10: In the swamp...
Number of Lemmings: 1
Save: 1/1
Release Rate: 99
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 20 builders,20 bashers,20 miners,20 diggers
Good: Good scenery,the title matches well
Bad: This level rather straightforward and the skills could have been a bit more limited,the time limit seemed a bit too long
aswell
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I guess an interesting question about Level 9 would be just how few of the skills you can manage to use :P From looking at the picture, I think it might be possible with just two miners.......
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What pack's next?
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I'm fairly sure it isn't, you have to go into the netting to mine down to the bottom lemmings, you know up's the word for walking on nets :P
What pak shall we do next? Wouldn't mind a Conway or Tumbleweed myself.
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I wouldn't mind doing Conway02 next so let's review that pack :)
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Sure, everyone agreed on level 2 then? Here's the quick link...
http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/files/levelpacks/conway02.zip
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway02/1.png)
Conway02 - Level 1: It must be around here somwhere
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 75/80
Release Rate: 1
Time: 8 minutes
Skills: 20 of everything
Good: You have to search for the exit,title matches,a few traps and steel areas are hidden inside the terrain
Bad: When you know where the exit is, then the level is easy
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:o Crikey, that's a lot to dig through... How on earth did you find it!?
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I just used all miners at a different spot untill I found it (there are 2 exits) :)
I saved 100% on level 3 within 2 minutes...pretty sure it's a backroute.
If level 4 doesn't involve reverse bashing,I backrouted that level too :)
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Level 2 is annoying me at the minute. I could pass Level 1 though.
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I'm fairly sure it isn't, you have to go into the netting to mine down to the bottom lemmings, you know up's the word for walking on nets :P
Oh, I hadn't seen that there was another set of lemmings! ;) That does change things a bit.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway02/2.png)
Conway02 - Level 2: Don't just save them, CELEBRATE!
Number of Lemmings: 24
Save: 24/24
RR: 0
Time: 4 minutes
Skills:4 climbers,7 floaters,2 bombers,1 blocker,12 builders,6 bashers,6 miners,3 diggers
Good: Nice scenery,intimidating title,fairly challenging level
Bad: It's annoying placing all those builders, I sometimes ran out of them when I just needed one,I hate levels where it's easy to mess up on
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Who's going to review Level 3?
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I haven't even tried this pack yet.. so not me atm. (although I suspect I will have gotten past level 3 soon)
EDIT: I skimmed through the pack and did level 3. 100%, so maybe someone else should review it.
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No, I'd say knowing about the backroute puts you in a better position to do an honest review. If I were the level author I'd be glad of that.
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I saved 100% on that level too but I'm at school and don't remember the stats so I can't review it now...
Tseug,did your backroute involve using the basher mask as an advantage?
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Leviathan are you reviewing Level 3 later?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway02/3.png)
Conway02 - Level 3: Life sucks!
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 95%
RR: 10
Time: 3 minutes
Skills:2 climbers,2 bombers,1 blocker,8 builders,2 bashers,2 miners
Good: Level looks intimidating at first and there are several ways to complete it including with 100%.
Bad: Too easy and the left side looks kinda blank to me.
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The title is silly :P
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I suppose life would actually kind of suck if you were stuck in a bowl.
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Tseug,did your backroute involve using the basher mask as an advantage?
Exactly. I have no idea what was intended.
EDIT: 3,4,7 now. I think I will cheat on level 1. ;)
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I haven't had time to pass the whole pack yet. Could only do 1,2 and 3. Levels 4 onwards annoyed me.
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There are at least 2 glitches I know of to solve level 4...
Hint: I used one of them in my packs.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway02/4.png)
Conway02 - Level 4: Mining upwards?
Number of Lemmings: 58
Save: 100%
Time: 3 minutes
RR: 99
Skills: 5 bombers,3 blockers,20 builders,20 bashers
Good: Nice scenery I guess...
Bad: Title doesn't match because there are no miners and there's a glitch that if you don't know it then the level is really difficult to pass. I don't know if it was a backroute.
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Now 1,2,3,4,6,7. I did level 1 without cheating. :) For level 2 of course I "had" to slide the lower group up. ;) The only one that wasn't a backroute was level 1, and technically backroutes don't even apply to it.
EDIT: Actually I'm not sure about level 7, it seems like it was meant to have a few intended solutions.
All of the other levels are long/annoying, I don't think I will do them.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway02/5.png)
Conway02 - Level 5: Odds and Ends
25 Lems
92% to save
RR: 60
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 16 climb, 15 float, 14 bomb, 13 block, 12 build, 11 bash, 10 mine, 9 dig
Good: Clever level idea, with one of each terrain piece in the set used. Challenging to optimize the solution. Looks like you have plenty of skills, but you have barely enough.
Bad: The actual difficulty of the level lies in the precision rather than any interesting tricks.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway02/6.png)
Conway02 - Level 6: Oh to be an architect!
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 100%
RR: 50
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 floater,14 builders,1 basher,1 miner,1 digger
Good: Appropriate title,nice scenery,only 1 basher shows you how to get past the other two walls using the other skills
Bad: It's sometimes annoying placing those builders,this level is still fairly straightforward but overall a good level
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There's a huge backroute in that level, though, where you can completely ignore the right side of the level.
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I can't pass that level at all...I just don't see it :(
The right side is obvious but those 3 walls :-/
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Wild guess: bash the first one, use the digger and miner to beat the second, and build up the third?
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I think I see the backroute to Level 6 (build upward and bash to the exit?). &#A0;I don't see anything for level 4 except for the "Bash through the top of the steel" glitch. &#A0;It looks impossible for anything else to work with only two bashers (Although 98% looks possible easily with the given skill set).
I can't test anything out because I don't have CustLemm downloaded on my computer right now.
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JM got the stats wrong, level 4 has 20 bashers.
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JM got the stats wrong, level 4 has 20 bashers.
Oh, ok. Then I see how it can be done without the steel glitch. Thanks.
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I reverse bashed away the steel to solve that level...
I also knew there was a trap because some pixels of the trap are visible outside the wall.
Does the real solution involve using those holes in the terrain on the left?
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JM got the stats wrong, level 4 has 20 bashers.
I missed the 0 out. I just managed to put it in then. Who is doing Level 7? I'm hoping to do Level 8 if possible.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway02/7.png)
Conway02 - Level 7: 5...4...3...2...1...Uh-Oh!(BOP!)
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 88%
RR: 35
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 10 bombers, 10 blockers
Good: A very cunning level this, an excellent use of a method I'm sure we're all familiar with and one that'll addict you until you prevail. And an amusing title!
Bad: Hiding the upper two traps is unfair, and makes the challenge more frustrating than hard. That and very basic scenery, but I suppose you can't clutter things in 1 minute levels.
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I reverse bashed away the steel to solve that level...
I also knew there was a trap because some pixels of the trap are visible outside the wall.
Does the real solution involve using those holes in the terrain on the left?
This is an educated guess, but I believe that you can use a blocker to turn the lemmings on the right side, then use a builder to get over the trigger for the trap. After that, make somebody bash through the wall, and make him build after he takes half a swipe. Repeat this until you get high enough to free the lemmings on top. To finish the level, bash under the blocker.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway02/8.png)
Conway02 - Level 8: Lemmings on the ceiling
Number of Lemmings: 52
Save: 100%
RR: 1
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 floater,22 builders,1 basher,10 miners
Good: Nice design, good title
Bad: Long and tiring, you better be careful or you will mess up
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway02/9.png)
Conway02 - Level 9: Lemming's House
Number of Lemmings: 60
Save: 45/60
Time: 4 minutes
Release Rate: 50
Skills: 5 climbers,5 floaters,10 bombers,10 blockers,20 builders,10 bashers,10 miners,10 diggers
Good: Design is good,good title,traps at the bottom implemented well
Bad: The solution can be very difficult to pull off, even when you know it
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Now who's going to do Level 10?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/conway02/10.png)
Conway02 - Level 10: Star Trek
80 Lems
75% to save
RR: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 20 climb, float, bomb, block, build, 2 bashers
Good: A good exercise of microscale Lemmings management. Uses a little trick to get essentially a release rate less than 1 without affecting the level.
Bad: The entire right side of the level is un-utilized, although if it were the level would be a lot longer (and if the terrain were left blank, it wouldn't be "epic"), so maybe this is a good thing :P There's no real trick, and it's maybe a little easy for a 10th level because of that.
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What's next? How about shveg02?
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We just did one of Shvegait's packs a bit ago. We did one of Shvegait's packs then one of Dragonslover's then one of Conway's packs. I wouldn't mind doing one of Tumble Weed's packs or one of Garjen's packs next.
EDIT: I recommend we should review garjen03
we have the screenshots and the pack can be downloaded from www.garjen.co.uk
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen03/1.png)
Garjen03 - Level 1: Out, away from the tune!
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 98%
RR: 40
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 bomber,1 blocker,5 builders,5 bashers
Good: Nice dos version of a genesis re-make,seems challenging,
Bad: Solution was slightly annoying to pull off but other than that it's a good level ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen03/2.png)
Garjen03 - Level 2: Castles in the sky
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 97%
RR: 99
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 1 of each
Good:
-Very brilliant level design,I'dd loved to see such design in the original lemmings game too!
-Solution that makes you test things out and makes you think a lot.
-Nicely implemented terrain traps if you mess things up.
-The terrain tricks you to try solutions that end to failiure.
-Watching those lems as they reach the exit is really fun.
-I really LOVE this level,just like "to each his own" I reviewed earlier.
Bad: Waiting for that basher to finish becomes tedious.
I really wonder if there are any backroutes for this level...
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I really wonder if there are any backroutes for this level...
Does saving 98% with a bomber left over count?
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Yep,I guess it does :)
How did you manage that?
EDIT:
I've completed levels 1,2,5,6,8,9 and 10.
Lemming's ark has always bugged me,I just don't see it...
Level 3 is bugging me too and level 4 seems to tedious at the moment.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen03/3.png)
Garjen03 - Level 3: Ball Bearing
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
RR: 99
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 61 climbers, 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger
Good: Nice small level with a good main idea which is well hidden, minimal terrain containing only the necessary things and still not giving away the solution.
Bad: Waiting for the important lemming lasts very long making the level at this part boring, assigning all the climbers is a lot of clicking.
Lemmings' Ark is one of the best levels ever, in my opinion the best of the original lemmings and Genesis together. It took me some days to solve, but the best is, once you solved it, the solution looks so simple, you wonder how you could overlook it.
Unfortunately it has a little backroute which requires high precision.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen03/4.png)
Garjen03 - Level 4: That's it ????!!!!
Number of Lemmings: 80
save: 80/80
Time: 6 minutes
RR: 1
Skills:15 builders,5 bashers
Good: Strange title, good scenery, multiple tasks need to be carried out
Bad: It's really easy to make a mistake on this level when you're building over water or reaching the end of bashing through a pillar and a lemming falls, it was annoying to pull off the solution
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Yep,I guess it does :)
How did you manage that?
Block on the left. Make one of the lems in the top chamber an athlete. Make the athlete mine down to the lower left group. Make one of the lems in the top chamber dig so that they all fall safely. Bash about in the middle of the miner tunnel. Build to stop bashing. Watch. :)
Unfortunately it has a little backroute which requires high precision.
Two backroutes actually, see the "lemmings ark" thread.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen03/5.png)
Garjen03 - Level 5: Cold burn
Number of Lemmings: 50
save: 100%
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 20
Skills:10 builders,4 bashers and 2 miners
Good: Nice level design,visible traps implemented well and containing the crowd isn't that easy as it looks.
Bad: There's a pointless hidden trap somewhere that kills your first attempt but once you know where it is,it's easy to just build over it.
Also this level is very easy and its solution is quite obvious.
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It took me a few tries to complete that level. The hidden trap isn't that hard for me to avoid now I know where it is. Level 6 is really annoying me.
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Level 6 is really a nice brain puzzle which took me a while to find out :)
Hint: don't bother trying to take the shortest and most obvious route...go the long way round instead,but look carefully :)
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Level 6 is possible without going around, just hard because of selection problems.....
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Who's passed Level 6? It really has annoyed me. I have found no way of passing it. I've done 1,5,8 and 10 so far.
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btw I confirmed a solution to level 6 that doesn't go around. (there are certainly more)
[highlight]#1 bashes, another one digs and bashes to the right a bit later, #2 digs and mines to stop the basher[/highlight]
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen03/6.png)
Garjen03 - Level 6: The Incinerator
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 100%
RR: 50
Time : 5 minutes
Skills: 2 bashers,2 miners,2 diggers
Good: Good amount of scenery, the title matches
Bad: There seems to be one or two backroutes in this level
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It's such an annoying level. I'm sure that solution Tseug wrote is a backroute. I am very sure you would have to go the long way round to reach the exit.
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btw I confirmed a solution to level 6 that doesn't go around. (there are certainly more)
[highlight]#1 bashes, another one digs and bashes to the right a bit later, #2 digs and mines to stop the basher[/highlight]
But how do you stop that miner?
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The miner and basher can stop each other -- it's pretty easy.
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Well, actually there was a huge discussion over miner canceling by miners or any other type of dirt removing lemming. I thought we came to the conclusion that miners couldn't be canceled by bashers, but maybe not. I don't know. I haven't looked back at it.
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Miners can cancel bashers, but that isn't what's used. The digger stops the basher, then the miner hits thin air after 1 or 2 strokes.
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Level 8 is easy...but I can't pass level 7 :(
Lemming's ark is so hard...
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I easily passed Level 8 and 10. I just got 10% on Level 9 then I ran out of time :(
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen03/7.png)
Garjen03 - Level 7: Lemmings' Ark
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 50/50
RR: 40
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 3 climbers,4 builders,1 basher,2 miners,1 digger
Good: Nice DOS version of a genesis level
Bad: Placing those miners can get annoying,the level doesn't really look like an ark that much
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen03/8.png)
Garjen03 - Level 8: Arch-Nemesis
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 90%
RR: 1
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 10 of all
Good: Nice title that suits the level,great scenery and 100% is possible (there are lots of methods).
Bad: Too easy for this late in the pack,too many skills given.
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I used 2 or 3 bombers to pass that level. I like the symmetrical design of the level. Looks cool :)
Who passed level 9?
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A little hint on level 9: [highlight]BBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!![/highlight]
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A little hint on level 9: [highlight]BBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!![/highlight]
Ok but I thought about doing Level 10 or something like that. Who is able to do Level 9?
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Done level 9
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen03/9.png)
Garjen03 - Level 9: Nuclear Bomb
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 12%
RR: 50
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 5 bombers,5 blockers,5 builders
Good: Has a nice symmetrical design, the 1 minute time limit helps you choose the correct exit, the title matches
Bad: It is rather annoying trying over and over again until you save the right amount of lemmings, the exits on the left and right are backroutes and the builders make you use the backroutes
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I actually went for the exit on the right, although I used blockers/bombers and only saved 15%.
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I actually went for the exit on the right, although I used blockers/bombers and only saved 15%.
Looks like that was a backroute.
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Of course they are backroutes. Think about the title!
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The title should have been a dead givaway. Why would you try to reach ine of the exits when the solution is in the title?
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The title should have been a dead givaway. Why would you try to reach ine of the exits when the solution is in the title?
There's builders in the level and I reached the exits on one of my go's but I only got 10% :(
On the middle exit I saved 25%. I used 5 bombers to create a small pit then I set the nuke off. A few times before that I didn't save the right target or more. Having the builders really was trying to spoil the level with two backroutes.
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I just used 2 blockers, then nuked. Saved 36%. I don't want to review level 10 because it's too easy.
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The title should have been a dead givaway. Why would you try to reach ine of the exits when the solution is in the title?
I did try the nuking method but couldn't prevail, so I thought I'd bend the rules :P
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I just used 2 blockers, then nuked. Saved 36%. I don't want to review level 10 because it's too easy.
I am not reviewing Level 10 either because I did Level 9. Jazzem did you pass Level 10?
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Who did pass Level 10 anyway?
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If I remember correctly, just build and bash. What's hard about that?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/garjen03/10.png)
Garjen03 - Level 10: Poste Haste
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 100%
RR: 2
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 2 of everything
Good: Well the design of the level is nice and the title seems cool
Bad: Too easy to be the last level. This really should have been Level 1
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Screenshot?
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Screenshot?
I think Shvegait is busy with the screenshot site which is why the screenshots aren't showing.
Level 10 really should have been earlier in the pack and Level 8 should also have been in the pack. Level 10 took me 3 or 4 tries to pass. I just needed to build over a gap and carry on bashing then I was ok :)
What pack shall we review next?
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JM and I have decided to do Twpak02, I presume that's fine with everyone? Go here for the link...
http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/files/levelpacks/twpak02.zip
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak02/1.png)
Twpak02 - Level 1: New and Exciting: Lemmingaide!
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release rate: 80
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 4 builders,3 bashers,2 miners,1 digger
Good: Nice title and great scenery
Bad: A bit too difficult to be the first in the pack, the high release rate is rather annoying,I managed to turn the lemmings
around that walked up the staircase with 2 builders
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Twpak02 Good idea ;)
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Btw JM, it's 1.png, not 01.png.
Also, the server that the screenshots are on went down for a brief time yesterday, which is likely why the other screenshots weren't showing.
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Btw JM, it's 1.png, not 01.png.
Also, the server that the screenshots are on went down for a brief time yesterday, which is likely why the other screenshots weren't showing.
Thanks Shvegait. Problem fixed. So far in this pack I've passed all but level 8.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak02/2.png)
Twpak02 - Level 2: Lemm The Builder
Number of Lemmings: 10
Save: 100%
Release rate: 20
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 15 builders
Good: A rather odd one this. Lots of nice scenery, and there isn't really a fixed solution, rather a rough one with many ways to go by it. It's also pretty simple, which suits it's place in the pak and is a nice break after the rather intimidating level 1.
Bad: Hardly a challenge, it's straight building for the most part but frequently attempting to control the unused lemmings.
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Level 2 really should have been before level 1. Is anybody able to review level 3? I'm supposed to be doing level 4.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak02/3.png)
Twpak02 - Level 3: Further Down The Drain
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 98%
Release Rate: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 blocker,1 builder,1 miner,1 digger
Good: The layout looks good, nice title
Bad: Too easy, you don't need to use the builder of the blocker in the level
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak02/4.png)
Twpak02 - Level 4: As cold as a frozen lemming
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 75%
RR: 1
Time: 4 minutes
Skills:30 blockers,30 builders
Good: Nice title,good scenery,you have watch the time limit while reaching one of the two exits
Bad: One of the exits has been misplaced and requires a builder to reach,the level is rather tedious and the design is nice but could have used the snow set
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Bad: One of the exits has been misplaced and requires a builder to reach,the level is rather tedious and the design is nice but could have used the snow set
I agree. The title could be either for a level using the snow set or a level using the crystal set. I don't really make levels with the ONML graphics. I prefer the original graphics.
Level 1 was dam difficult to pull off. It really should have been later in the pack. Level 2 wasn't too annoying but a bit too short. I have seen some better levelpaks from Tumble Weed including Twpak09 which is my favourite pack of his. Twpak11 is also good. Twbestof is awesome.
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I hate misplaced exits. Some just won't let you use a builder or two to reach. Who's passed level 5?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak02/5.png)
Twpak02 - Level 5: Let's Bash That Guy!
Number of Lemmings: 69
save: 59/60
RR: 99
Time: 5 minutes
skills: 1 bomber,1 blocker,1 basher,1 digger
Good: Nice title,looks like a hard level,some nice scenery too!
Bad: The time limit is too high. You can just do it in 2 minutes, maybe less, the walls could be spread out at the bottom to make the exit look as if it is centered
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This topic is 1 of the best topics. Hasn't been touched for a bit. Who's done level 6?
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I can't find that exit. All those traps keep killing all my lemmings. Level 8 and 9 are also difficult to passs. Anyway I've just made another level for my 5th pack. It's called "Time Bandits" . I might try and put some more design into it to make it a bit more difficult.
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When we are done with this pack shall we do shveg02?
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Who's played levels from this pack apart from me,Jazzem and MC Marshy?
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Who's played levels from this pack apart from me,Jazzem and MC Marshy?
Haha! you're right. :)
shveg2 is fine, I would actually review those levels. ;)
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We need to finish this pack before starting shveg02
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak02/6.png)
Twpak02 - Level 6: Hide and Seek
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 87%
RR: 50
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 10 of everything
Good: The exit is hidden in a good place, hidden traps implemented nicely, good scenery
Bad: When you know where the exit is then it's piece of cake :P
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak02/7.png)
Twpak02 - Level 7: Escape from Lemmtraz
75 Lems
86% to save
RR: 10
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 20 builders, 20 bashers, 1 digger
Good: Many ways to play it. Middle group can save the others or the others can free themselves.
Bad: Easy! And, well, it looks a little odd. You'd think Lemmtraz would have a bit more security ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak02/8.png)
Twpak02 - Level 8: Reduce, Reuse, Relemming
Number of Lemmings: 3
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 50
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 floater,8 builders
Good: Rather nice title,some good scenery and a good puzzle
Bad: Good precision but rather annoying
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak02/9.png)
Twpak02 - Level 9: When In Rome Do As The Lemmings
Number of Lemmings:40
Save: 100%
RR:50
Time:4 minutes
Skills: 1 blocker,20 builders,5 bashers
Good: Nice difficult level, good title and scenery, looks really hard until you find you know to pass it
Bad: Solution can be difficult to pull off, bit of a tedious level
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twpak02/10.png)
Twpak02 - Level 10: A Hell Of A Lot Of Bashing
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
RR: 99
Time: 9 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,20 bashers
Good: Title matches, has a lot of scenery
Bad: Long and boring, the solution is just bashing,bashing,bashing and yet again bashing until the end, not even a challenge, shouldn't really be the last level in the pack,
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Yay Tumble Weed's levelpak done :)
Now let's move on with shveg02
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Yep shveg02. Who's passed level 1?
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JM has. I'll review the ones that get stuck. ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/1.png)
Shveg02 - Level 1: Wall to Wall
Number of Lemmings: 10
Save: 10/10
Release Rate: 80
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers,1 floater,4 builders,1 basher
Good: Excellent title, good layout and tricky to pass
Bad: I wouldn't have to say much that's bad about this level, I didn't find it very hard to pass, well the solution was slightly annoying to pull off and that was it
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I can't pass a level from this pack.Who's doing level 2?
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I haven't passed it. I have no idea how to either :(
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Is somebody going to do level 2?
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Oh alright, I assume this one's stuck. ;)
EDIT: I want to do 5 and 8, but I don;t think there will be a problem with someine else reviewing them. ;)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/2.png)
Shveg02 - Level 2: Primitive Bridges
Number of Lemmings: 10
Save: 10/10
Release Rate: 01
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 10 climbers, 4 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger
Good: Great level idea. Good scenery with a title that matches. I actually didn't use a backroute to pass it. ;)
Bad: Somewhat annoying to pull of the solution.
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Heloooo ooo oo o o o o ?!
Level 3 is the easiest in the pack!
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Heloooo ooo oo o o o o ?!
Level 3 is the easiest in the pack!
It's the easiest. I could pass it almost nearly everytime I play it. Level 4 is a harder version of it though. Level 7 requires some trick that isn't found in a lot of levels. Shvegait sure has some hard levels there :p
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Someone review level 3.
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Jazzem or Leviathan must have passed it. I'm pretty sure that Level 4 has a backroute. It's annoying to hold the crowd on Level 6 they all walk across the bridge and keep falling in the lava. Level 9 is evil!
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JM, why not just review it...?
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JM, why not just review it...?
I want to review Level 4.
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I know I once passed level 3 but I simply forgot the solution :(
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There are probably something like 5 variations on the solution for level 3 (at least). In terms of difficulty, it would've been level 1, but it's not a good opening level in my mind, and I wanted it paired with its sequel, besides.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/3.png)
Shveg02 - Level 3: Necker cube
Number of Lemmings: 40
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 90
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 climber,1 blocker,1 builder,1 basher,2 miners
Good:Nice design and very well implemented terrain traps.
Bad:Annoying to get all right,maybe a little bit blank outside the cube.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/4.png)
Shveg02 - Level 4: Necker Cube (Part Two)
number of lemmings: 40
save: 100%
rr: 90
time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 climber,1 blocker,1 builder,2 miners,1 digger
Good: looks harder than the first part of necker cube
bad: uses the trick where you save 1 lemming when you activate the nuke and i have no idea if that is a backroute
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uses the trick where you save 1 lemming when you activate the nuke and i have no idea if that is a backroute
Oi! I didn't even check for that backroute. For some reason it didn't even cross my mind. Easy enough to fix though... I can simply change the order of the windows.
And this one is *definitely* (supposed to be) harder than the first one! Has anyone passed it without that backroute?
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And this one is *definitely* (supposed to be) harder than the first one! Has anyone passed it without that backroute?
Tseug passed it with the backroute.
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OK. I've updated the pack to fix that backroute in those 2 levels. I'm curious when someone will pass level 4 for real now.
www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/shveg02.dat
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Looks like you've cleaned up that backroute Shvegait. The first lemming comes out the bottom entrance now. I don't know how to pass Level 4 properly. When I tested one of Leviathan's levels I found a weird backroute like that. The trick is mostly used on the levels "Dyslexia" by Conway and "Why can't they just run?" by Insane Steve. Thanks for cleaning up the backroute. I'm kind of stuck on Level 5 who's passed it?
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I'm completely stumped on level 5. Just how on earth do you do it!?
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For the intended solution, you have to do something that in most cases would seem completely trivial, but in this case is absolutely essential...
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I'll have a look at level 4.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/5.png)
Shveg02 - Level 5: There's one small problem...
number of lemmings: 50
save: 98%
rr: 65
time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 of each
Good: Absolutely brilliant level, my favorite in the pack. :) Good scenery and a title that sort of matches. (there's more than one problem...) ;)
bad: Somewhat difficult to execute. That's all I can think of.
I would have liked to see some levels like this in the original lemmings!
btw, great job!
btw, it's a really good level.
btw, my favorite level out of all your packs, even your third. :)
btw, i typed "btw" too much.... but it's a great level!
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A new review of level 4:
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/4.png)
Shveg02 - Level 4: Necker Cube (Part Two)
number of lemmings: 40
save: 100%
rr: 90
time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 climber,1 blocker,1 builder,2 miners,1 digger
Good: Quite a good level. Uses a neat trick and hgas many solutions that *almost* work. Nice twist on the previous level. :)
bad: Precision is a little annoying...
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Now level 6 is just plain annoying, has anyone passed it?
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Level 6 is annoying. I keep building bridges to save the left and right groups but the bombers keep exploding in the wrong place and it's annoying having to hold the middle groups in a safe place. Did somebody manage levels 8,9 or 10?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/6.png)
Shveg02 - Level 6: Destined for Death
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 64/80
RR: 50
Time: 4 minutes
Skills:2 climbers,2 floaters,20 bombers,30 builders
Good: Good symmetrical design, nice title, multi-tasking also
Bad: Long and tedious especially with all the builders and placing those bombers gets somewhat annoying so if you make a mistake you have to start all over again
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Tseug, could you PM me your solution for level 5? I don't play CustLemm so it can hardly matter giving it away...... and I've had an idea and want to know if it's the right one.
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I passed level 7 once but the precision is slightly annoying. Who else has passed it?
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I've passed all but 6 and 10.
I'm not doing level 7 because I want to do level 8. JM why don't you review it?
EDIT: PM sent Ahribar
[edit]314 posts!!! the day after pi day!! :) :) :)[/edit]
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/7.png)
Shveg02 - Level 7: In need of guidance...
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 90%
Release Rate: 70
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 2 climbers,1 of everything else but floater
Good: The title suits the level, uses a trick that turns lemmings around, good design too
Bad: The precision is rather annoying
If you have solved Geoopk0 Level 8 "Finding a place to stay" then take a look at this level
After I solved "Finding a place to stay" I managed to eventually solve this one
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OK, my idea for Level 5 wasn't anything like the real solution, but probably I overestimated the safe fall distance. :P
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Tseug you can now do Level 8 :)
Who has passed level 9?
EDIT: I managed Level 10. I now know how to solve it ;)
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Oh.... I think I backrouted level 7.
[highlight]Dig away the edge of the steel.[/highlight]
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/8.png)
Shveg02 - Level 8 : Mining (co)operation
Number of Lemmings: 20
Save: 95%
Release Rate: 85
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 10 floaters, 1 builder, 1 baasher, 10 miners
Good: Good title. :) Very nice scenery, and a good puzzle.
Bad: I backrouted it. My solution could have saved 100%.
I don't remember exactly how I did it, so I'd have to do it again...
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Yes, digging away that which is not supposed to be diggable is of course a backroute. I could extend the steel area for that part, I suppose. (Or is there anything else that could prevent it? Your description wasn't very clear as to what you do... which edge? etc.)
And yeah, one lemming is supposed to die in level 8, with all tools used. I had a lot of trouble eliminating backroutes on it, so I'm not surprised there are still some.
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[highlight]Digging away the left edge of the steel allows a blocker placed next to the trap to turn the lems around.[/highlight]
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Oh, of course! I haven't played the level in so long that I just wasn't thinking why the steel is there in the first place. ;)
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I managed to pass level 9 and 10 in the end. Who else passed them?
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Go ahead and review level 9 JM. It's been a while.
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Dude I also passed level 10 and I thought I should do level 10.
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oh..... i c. I didn't do l3v3l 10.......... hmmmm.....
EDIT: Wow, i didn't even notice that i typed "l3v3l"! :D
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Who is going to review level 9?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/9.png)
Shveg02 - Level 9: Floating to safety
Number of Lems: 80
Save: 20%
Release Rate: 99
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 80 floaters
Good: Traps implemented nicely, design looks good
Bad: This level is just plain annoying, you have to pause too much to help you save the right target and you just keep having to start over and over again until you save the right % target
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/shveg02/10.png)
Shveg02 - Level 10: Try climbing that!
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 80
Time: 5 minutes
Skills:50 climbers,25 floaters,50 builders
Good: Title is nice,good symmetrical terrain layout,you think one of the walls will take you straight to the exit but you have to go the long way round
Bad: Tedious with all those builders etc, precision slightly annoying, you can't make a mistake or you will have to try over
and over again until you succeed
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What's next? How about crisfn01 or pacpack2?
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Good: Traps implemented nicely, design looks good
Bad: This level is just plain annoying, you have to pause too much to help you save the right target and you just keep having to start over and over again until you save the right % target
My goal for this experimental level was to have a level that gave you only floaters and was not completely trivial (i.e., not like Fun 2) and didn't just exploit a glitch to win (Conway's "Dyslexia" - nuke save% bug). This was the only thing that came to mind (and I sure am glad that the window object lines up perfectly with the lizard traps! Originally, I wanted one lizard on each side, but the one facing right didn't line up, only the one facing left). Sure, it's not great from a puzzle perspective, but the fact that it's annoying and difficult means I achieved my goals here :P
And there is a rhythm to it, by the way. It's easier to find the rhythm than to pause constantly (since pausing ruins the rhythm).
By they way, JM, "Try climbing that!" has 50 lemmings, not 80.
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In the end I saved 21% on level 9.
MC Marshy now thinks we should review either Crisfn01 or Pacpack2. Well I don't mind which one we review. You can download them from www.garjen.co.uk
Who wants to review either of the packs?
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So which pack shall we review next then?
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No idea. Is anybody ok with either Crisfn01 or Pacpack2?
EDIT: Go for Crisfn01. We have the screenshots for the pack already and you can get it from www.garjen.co.uk
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I'm doing level 1 now
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/crisfn01/1.png)
Crisfn01 - Level 1: Jungle!!
Number of Lemmings:32
Save: 27/32
Release Rate: 45
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 5 bombers,5 blockers,25 builders
Good: Great scenery, bit tricky when it comes to the traps
Bad: The traps are bit annoying, other than that it's a great level
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Level 1 looks good. I thought this pack would be good to review ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/crisfn01/2.png)
Crisfn01 - Level 2: Lava Reef
Number of Lemmings: 50
Save: 80%
Release Rate: 20
Time: 6 minutes
Skills: 1 blocker, 1 bomber, 12 builders, 2 bashers
Good: Some awesome scenery there, and a pretty fun simple level.
Bad: The bashers are rather redundant, and it's very straightforward.
Oh, and level 1 is not a jungle! :P
EDIT: Hmm? Screenies seem to be down.
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They can't both be level 1 ;) Incidentally, I hope you saved 100% on both of those!
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Erm... <_< >_> (Edited)
Nah, 98% only. I can see how you'd do 100% though [highlight]Put the blocker on a bridge and bash it when done, right?[/highlight][highlight][/highlight]
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That works ;D
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Yippee! :D
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I just let 1 lemming die on Level 2. I did the same with level 1. I've basicallly passed levels 1-10 in this pack. Who's reviewing level 3?
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Levels 4,8 and 9 look tedious. Why does nobody ever pass those levels anymore?
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I've passed level 4 and I'm reviewing it when somebody has done level 3.
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Why am I being ignored :'( :'( :'(
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Everyone hates level 3.
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Everyone hates level 3.
Why does everyone hate level 3?
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Probably because it looks harder than the rest of the levels.
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Someone review level 3.
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Yeah somebody just do level 3.
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It's a bit hypocritical to tell someone to "just" review the level... Why not just review it yourself? (Unless you wanted to review Level 4, of course, but you're not ALL going to review it...)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/crisfn01/3.png)
Crisfn01 - Level 3: Be careful!
40 Lems
50% to save
RR: 15
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 bombers, 3 blockers, 7 builders
Good: Looks tough at first glance...
Bad: The level is completely trivial. The only solution that seems possible is made irrelevant by the hidden exit that you will undoubtedly come across in your first serious play.
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I can finally do level 4 now :)
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/crisfn01/4.png)
Crisfn01 - Level 4: The moon cave
Number of Lemmings: 65
Save: 92%
Release Rate: 01
Time: 7 minutes
Skills: 40 builders,8 bashers,10 miners,10 diggers
Good: Nice title and scenery,traps implemented nicely,it's a fun level and you can save 100% :)
Bad: It's rather long but still straightforward
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Level 4 looks good. Level 5 and onwards seem straightforward still. Those traps on level 4 were easy to avoid :)
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Level 6 also has traps that are easy to avoid with all the straight building. It's easy to avoid level 5 traps aswell if you know where the hidden traps are. I've seen harder levels from the author of this pack.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/crisfn01/5.png)
Crisfn01 - Level 5: Treasonal Winter
Number of Lemmings: 45
Save: 66%
Release Rate: 10
Time: 5 minutes
Skills: 5 builders, 5 bashers, 5 diggers
Good: Lots of nice snow scenery (Although the water on the right is very odd...), hidden traps are fairly well implemented and 100%ing it is quite a challenge.
Bad: Easy! There's one or two things you need to put your mind to, and it could have been compressed a little.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/crisfn01/6.png)
Crisfn01 - Level 6: The sanctuary
Number of Lemmings: 40
Save: 75%
Release Rate: 30
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 1 blocker,10 builders
Good: The scenery and the title both match and you can just let 1 lemming die :)
Bad: The traps are rather easy to avoid, the straight building is rather boring to watch
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/crisfn01/7.png)
Crisfn01 - Level 7: Going down to...
40 Lems
100% to save
RR: 65
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 2 builders
Good: Uhh...
Bad: Pretty pointless level. No thought required. There are many more interesting ways to test precision.
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Good: Lots of nice snow scenery (Although the water on the right is very odd...)
Could be one of them bangin' volcanic rivers ;)
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Level 7 is a rather pointless level. Just building on the edge of 1 area then the other and release rate to 99 and that's it. Level 8 looks straightforward aswell but I thought I would review level 9 when I get a chance ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/crisfn01/8.png)
Crisfn01 - Level 8: Acid Exit
Lemmings: 80
Save: 80/80
Time: 9 minutes
RR: 1
Skills: 1 climber,30 builders
Good: There are no terrain removing skills which make you go the long way round to reach the exit, some nice scenery and a nice title
Bad: It's rather easy for an 8th level
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/crisfn01/9.png)
Crisfn01 - Level 9: Brick plot
Number of Lemmings:80
save: 70/80
percentage: 87%
rr: 1
time: 9 minutes
skills: 3 climbers,3 floaters,30 builders,15 bashers,5 miners,3 diggers
good: the scenery fits in the title and you can save 100%
bad: rather obvious what you have to do but not hard enough to be the 9th level in the pack
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And when someone reviews level 10 we will be done.
If nobody wants to review level 10 I'll do it another day.
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When level 10 is done, what pack could we do next?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/crisfn01/10.png)
Crisfn01 - Level 10: The waterfall
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
RR: 5
Time:7 minutes
Skills:80 floaters,1 basher,80 diggers
Good: The layout looks rather nice
Bad: Turning all the lemmings into floaters at once is tiring and annoying, this really should not have been the last level in the pack
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What pack shall be next then?
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What pack shall be next then?
We haven't done one of Insane Steve's packs for yonks. We haven't done any of mine or Hubbart's or yours or some other peoples levelpaks for a while now. Anyone got a clue what pack should be next?
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How about doing another of Conway's?
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How about doing another of Conway's?
One of Hubbart's levelpaks would be good for a change. Hubbart2 is a good pack and it can be downloaded from www.garjen.co.uk . We have the screenshots already. Who wants to review hubbart2 ?
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Dude let's review Hubbart2. I'm ok with that pack.
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This is a *really* annoying pack. :-/
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Conway = Hubbart????
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Where did you get that idea...?
Hubbart = Hubert + Bart. They don't frequent these forums.
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Oh well, if we must do this one we must. I'd still like to do a Conway pack next, though.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart2/1.png)
Hubbart2 Level 1: 2001 A Lemmings Odyssey
Save 100% of 80
Release rate 99
1 minute
6 builders, 2 bashers, other stuff you don't need to use
Good: By God, it's full of stars!
Bad: No puzzle. It's just an exercise in resetting until you work out the exact places to bash.
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Yeah a conway pack would be good after this pack. I'll try level 2 soon.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart2/2.png)
Hubbart2 - Level 2: The pipeline
Number of Lemmings: 3
Save: 3/3
RR: 01
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 3 climbers,3 builders,1 basher,2 miners,2 diggers
Good: Scenery looks nice, you need to trap the 2 lemmings in a pit while the other lemming does his job
Bad: It's not really a challenging level, it's obvious what you have to do
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Now who's ready for level 3?
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I've only done 1 and 2. Haven't had time to play the rest of the pack.
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The screenshot for Hubbart2 Level 1 is rather misleading. Took me a while to realize there's a thin platform at the very bottom that extends all the way to the exit. Is there also invisible terrain by any chance? Ahribar's comments on that level still isn't making complete sense to me yet (aren't there just one place to bash?). (No time to find download and play the set at the moment)
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You see the black rectangle in the middle of the level? Its left and right edges are invisible terrain. And you have to bash at the exact places to stop the next lemming catching up, since the RR is 99 and you only have six builders for delays.
As for level 3, either it requires horrible precision or I've completely got the wrong idea on how to pass it. I don't think I have the time or the patience at the moment.
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Oooo a challenge! :) *mount them guns an aim em at level 3!*
EDIT: I haven't played lemmings in a while so the precision is hard on me....
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart2/3.png)
Hubbart2 - Level 3: Bunker hill
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
RR: 01
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,1 builder,2 miners,3 diggers
Good: The difficulty of finding the solution is about right for it's place....but....
Bad: There's too much precision for this to be the third level.
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Sigh. Looks like my solution was the right one, then, and I just didn't persist with it enough. Well, I'll see if I can do any better on Level 4.
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Level 4 takes precision too. I haven't done it.... mostly because i got sick of trying after a couple tries. :P
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I found level 4 too difficult to pull off. I don't think I've done level 5.
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Level 4 is a ****ing nightmare..... not just the precision but also finding the route. I've used up all my patience trying to get a route to work that probably isn't the right one, because it didn't use the climber, and I couldn't do it.
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LOL ;D Ok im trying again..... ;)
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DONE!!! :) :) :)
That was really f***ing hard. Now who's going to review it?
EDIT: It helps to have some good music playing while you're trying it. ;)
EDIT2: btw I've done 5 and 6 now too. I backrouted level 5. Level 6 is just stupid.
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why is level 6 stupid?
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Bash, then build up. Compared to the last few it's REALLY easy.
I just realized that my solution to level 4 would work for level 9 also.... oh well.
[edit]reply 2000!!!!!!! w00t :D[/edit]
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tseug: Same here about level 4 and 9. I posted (on the Garjen forums, over a year ago) about my solutions, and I had the same for both 4 and 9... I still don't know what the real solution for 4 (or, perhaps, for 9) is! I'm pretty sure, though, that the easy solution to level 6 is a backroute (though I have no idea what the real solution would be). I think there's also a backroute to 7...
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Wow that's weird about levels 4 and 9. Yeah i think the easy solution to level 6 is a backroute too. Level 7 is annoying....
Why don't you review level 4? It doesn't look like anyone wants to keep trying....
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I'm trying level 5. I've done level 6. I haven't passed the other levels. Shvegait you could review level 4.
EDIT: I've done level 8. I've so far passed 1,2,6 and 8.
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I've done
3, 4, 5, 6, 9 (because i did 4)
EDIT: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9 Now all i have left is 7, 8, 10
EDIT2: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Level 10 looks like a pain in the *
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Where did you get that idea...?
Hubbart = Hubert + Bart. They don't frequent these forums.
A quote that misled me to think that they might be the same people.
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I still haven't passed level 4 :(
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It's a hard one. Try them in this order: 7, 5, 3, 4, 10
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7 shouldn't be too much of a problem. I can't handle the rest of the levels that easy.
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I would review level 4... but it's been over a year since I've passed it, and I can't remember my solution! But I'll try a bit more... I'm sure I'll remember it/figure it out eventually. It is the hardest level in the pack, though (except perhaps level 10)...
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart2/4.png)
Hubbart2 - Level 4: The construction site
Number of Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 1
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 1 climber,3 builders,1 miner,2 diggers
Good: Nice scenery,good use of the brick set,solution not easy to find :)
Bad: the solution is pretty annoying to pull off even when you have just found it and it should have been later in the pack
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I've recently had some tries at this level now, and I found three different solutions. All of them have the climber left, and one additionally two builders. One of them is directly applicable to level 9, and the one with the builders spare can be modified to work for it.
Neither of those requires incredibly much precision.
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So far I've passed 1,2,4,6,7,8 and 9. Levels 4 and 9 have the same solution. I wonder if one of them has a backroute. Who's going to review level 5?
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I tried Level 5 a few times, but I just ended up getting frustrated with CustLemm's crap lemming selection -- it doesn't always select the lemming already doing a skill, as it should, which makes levels like this (where you need to increase the RR early on as there is very little time) extremely frustrating.
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I can't stand level 5 anymore :(
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I tried Level 5 a few times, but I just ended up getting frustrated with CustLemm's crap lemming selection -- it doesn't always select the lemming already doing a skill
I guess I'll have to try out the level later (edit: where to download?). &#A0;I had detailed the selection rules in DOS Lemmings here (http://forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1140547071/120#131) and as far as I can tell you should always be able to select the lemming already doing a skill if there's just one such lemming under the cursor. &#A0;It is true though that climbers and floaters don't count as "doing a skill" (unless they are actually climbing or floating). &#A0;The selection mechanism should be nearly identical across various versions, excluding things like the size of the cursor maybe.
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I did level 5 without any diggers. There weren't any difficult parts of the solution. So just imagine that the diggers aren't there. ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart2/5.png)
Hubbart2 Level 5: Lemmenthaler Cheese
Save 95% of 80
Release rate 1
1 minute
1 climber, blocker, builder, 2 bashers, 3 diggers
Good: nice pun and an interesting level design -- given the irregular layout, there are many ways you might think of trying for a solution.
Bad: apparently it has a backroute without diggers! And my solution might also have been a backroute, because I was able to save one more than required. Maybe there are several ways to pass this one.
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Mine saved two more than required.... there are certainly several ways of passing this one.
EDIT: Lost 2, and one of them didn't really have to be lost, I was just lazy. ;)
EDIT2: I confirmed that 100% is possible, but I give up on doing it. There's a nasty bit of precision that I just can't seem to get right.... (unless at least one lemming has already died >_<)
EDIT3: Actually I'm still trying. ;)
EDIT4: DONE! :) With one climber, one digger, 3 seconds left. ;)
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I managed 6,7,8 and 9. 10 seems tricky. Level 6 was probably the easiest out of the pack or maybe level 2.
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I haven't managed to pass Level 6.... I know it's easy because of a backroute but I can't work out how to pull it off :-/
Going to review Level 6, JM?
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart2/6.png)
Hubbart2 - Level 6: Lemba the greek
Number of Lemmings:80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 90
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 1 blocker,2 builders,1 basher,2 diggers
Good: The design looks interesting and the title fits in with the design ;)
Bad: Should have been earlier in the pack, its too easy
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It's easier than levels 3,4 and 5. I couldn't really pass that many levels in this pack. Just 1,2 and 6.
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Who's reviewing level 7?
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Who's reviewing level 7?
I can't as I reviewed level 6.
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart2/7.png)
Hubbart2 - Level 7: Double Rescue Operation
Number of Lemmings:80
Save: 98%
Time:3 minutes
RR: 30
Skills:1 bomber,7 builders,2 bashers,2 miners,1 digger
Good: The scenery is excellent and the title is appropriate
Bad: Should have been earlier in the pack, the solution wasn't that difficult to pull off
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I've now managed level 10 after about 50 tries or so. Someone review level 8.
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Hey, can I have some of my levels reviewed?
TwigPak2 (9 levels):
Link: http://www.freepgs.com/snapperthetwig/stuff/twigpak1-2.zip
These are the pak(s) that I submited for the remake. The first pack is just a buch of good looking, but easy(ish) levels. The socond one is the one I would like reviewed.
NOTE: this pack is designed for mediocre players at the beginning, but the more expirenced at the end.
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Hey, can I have some of my levels reviewed?
TwigPak2 (9 levels):
Link: http://www.freepgs.com/snapperthetwig/stuff/twigpak1-2.zip
These are the pak(s) that I submited for the remake. The first pack is just a buch of good looking, but easy(ish) levels.
We are doing a conway pack after this 1. Maybe we could review 1 of your packs after one of conway's packs ;)
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart2/8.png)
Hubbart2 - Level 8: Walk like an Egyptian
Number of Lemmings:50
Save: 98%
Time:2minutes
RR: 80
Skills: 1 blocker, 3 builders, 4 bashers, 1 digger.
Good: The use of the lines make for an excellent landscape effect, and the pyramids look top notch. A nice solution too, and pulling it off is a decent challenge.
Bad: The precision is ridiculous, and made worse by the high release rate. The way that lemmings can walk in small crowds doesn't help, especially when placing the blocker.
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Is someone else able to review level 9 as I reviewed the first part of "the construction site" ?
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Hey, can I have some of my levels reviewed?
TwigPak2 (9 levels):
Link: http://www.freepgs.com/snapperthetwig/stuff/twigpak1-2.zip
These are the pak(s) that I submited for the remake. The first pack is just a buch of good looking, but easy(ish) levels.
We are doing a conway pack after this 1. Maybe we could review 1 of your packs after one of conway's packs ;)
Since he's a new author I think we should review his pack first.
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I agree. Also, it would be nice to do some easier levels; I've given up trying on the remaining levels in this pack.
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Yeah... 9 and 10 in this pack are insane. STT's does require some precision, but it's not that bad.
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It's the second pack (twigpak2) that I would like reviewed. The first one is just a muddle of fun - tricky levels for the remake. They're only together because it saves tedious downloading.
Thanks for the consideration.
(PS, those were fast replies. I'm used to message boards that you have to wait for up to a couple of days for a reply)
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(PS, those were fast replies. I'm used to message boards that you have to wait for up to a couple of days for a reply)
Hehe yeah we have no life. ;) ;D
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart2/9.png)
Hubbart2 - level 9: the construction site (2)
Lemmings: 80
Save: 100%
Release Rate: 1
Tme: 3 minutes
Skills:1 climber,3 builders,1 miner,2 diggers
good: like the first part, nice scenery and the title matches, looks like a slight bit of modification cleaned up a backroute but I don't know
bad: 1 of the solutions to the level is the same as the solution to level 4, this must be a backroute
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(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/hubbart2/10.png)
Hubbart2 - Level 10: Crystal Caves
Lemmings: 80
Save: 80/80
Time: 2 minutes
RR: 1
tools:5 floaters,1 bomber,7 builders,5 bashers,3 miners
good: nice tricky level and suits its place in the pack,good use of the gem set, its the first gem set level to mention crystals
bad: the tight gaps etc make the solution slightly annoying to pull off, having to pay attention to all 3 exits is what makes it difficult to pull off
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Levels 9 and 10 have been done on the other forum. Let's move onto Twigpak2.
(http://www.jx3.net/tdg/shve/levelpics/twigpak2/1.png)
Twigpak2 Level 1: Double Rift
Save 50% of 50 (25 Lemmings)
Release rate 50
5 minutes
50 builders, 5 of each other skill
Good: appropriate difficulty for a first level -- not immediately obvious but very simple and requires no particular tricks. 100% is possible.
Bad: How I miss Cheapo's vastly superior ability to select the right lemming!
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The screenshots for Twigpak2 will hopefully be up soon. It's a good pack. The scenery for level 1 is just awesome.
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The screenshots for Twigpak2 will hopefully be up soon. It's a good pack. The scenery for level 1 is just awesome.
Dude, I'm flattered. I thought it was rather medicore.
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Okay, i've uploaded my screenshots of the levels. Here is the link:
http://www.freepgs.com/snapperthetwig/stuff/tp2screen.zip
NOTE: This link will only be present untill Shvegait takes them to his site.
EDIT: LINK REMOVED
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Okay, i've uploaded my screenshots of the levels. Here is the link:
http://www.freepgs.com/snapperthetwig/stuff/tp2screen.zip
NOTE: This link will only be present untill Shvegait takes them to his site.
I gave screenshots of some levelpaks to Shvegait so he can upload them. It was your 2 levelpaks,some of my packs,some of Tumble weeds,some of Marshys and some of Dragonslovers. You can still review levels if the screenshtos aren't up yet.
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KK. Link removed.
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OK. They should be up now. Sorry, I was sick the past few days and haven't been thinking about it.
By the way, and people keep forgetting this, even if the screenshot is not there, put the link in anyway, because it will be up eventually. There's no surprise as to what the URL will be, and you know it will be up eventually...
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The screenshots are now up Shvegait. Thanks :)
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Who's going to do Level 2?
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I might go for level 3. Somebody could do level 2 first :)