That's a backroute. >_> I thought of another backroute too, time to fix 'em both...
EDIT: Okay, here's a version that should fix both your backroute and my one. :) I'd have to say, if you thought that the solution you found was "late-Taxing", then maybe I really did underestimate this level... though I still wouldn't say it's harder than Mayhem at most.
As for the bomber thing... there's really no reason to it at all. I guess in some cases, it's just to catch people who aren't paying attention and don't realise the level requires 100%, in other cases there's no reason other than "it makes the level look like it has more skills than it really does". And then of course there's...
Fierce 1, which despite requiring 100%, cannot be solved without using a bomber. :P But that's a very unique case. But that level is actually the reason why a lot of LPIII 100% levels have bombers, too - so that when the player gets to this level, they might think "oh, just another decoy bomber".
(I guess there's also "any 100%-required level that uses the non-fatal bombers" gimmick, but that's a bit different...)
EDIT: Found yet another backroute, uploaded yet another fixed version. No one downloaded V2 so I guess not much is lost... :P
EDIT: And already found a backroute in this version too... this solution looks pretty tricky to enforce...
EDIT: Think I've got it. The only change needed from V3 to fix the backroute was actually very small. So, here's V4. Fingers crossed...
EDIT: Seems solid now. Any potential backroute I can think of doesn't work out in practice.
Just for reference, the execution for this shouldn't be very fiddly. It's definitely not one of those levels where you have to keep trying adjusting moves by one or two pixels until everything lines up perfectly; it's one of the ones where once you know what to do, you shouldn't have much (if any) trouble pulling it off.
Here two more solutions. V4_1 is hopefully pretty near to the intended one, but V4_2 is using the floater a little bit more than is probably wanted.
Solution V4_1 reminds me of möbius's level Conundrum found in mobius2.dat or in MobiLems or in the Lix Community level pack).
I'd have to say, if you thought that the solution you found was "late-Taxing", then maybe I really did underestimate this level... though I still wouldn't say it's harder than Mayhem at most.
I don't consider (late-)Taxing to be hard, e.g. I would consider the first half of Medi in LPDos (late)-Taxing as well.
If solution V4_1 is intended, then it is certainly Mayhem: It uses one trick, that is neither obvious nor used in many other levels.
... I guess in some cases, it's just to catch people who aren't paying attention and don't realise the level requires 100%, in other cases there's no reason other than "it makes the level look like it has more skills than it really does". ...
Well, when I first start the level, additional bombers make me quit the level again just to check the save requirements ("Was it really 100%?").
And what is the intention behind "making the level look like it has more skills than it really does"?
Of course, there are special levels that might require such bombers and if you have an x-of-each-skill level it is certainly OK to include bombers as well. But if you have an odd assortment of other skills, additional bombers just tend to confuse me.
For the NeoLemmix Skills Levels, I think levels from my packs like "The Ice Bucket Challenge," "The Cracks," "Level Nein" (I may likely make a harder version of this one), "Under the Boardwalk," "Unlock Your Lemmings" and "The GAURDIEN" could work.
Then again, I'm the only one aside from you who's made levels with the NeoLemmix Skills so far.
Some level suggestions for you to add:
1. This Cheapo test level (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1912.msg49391#msg49391), which looks like a very fun level that's not hard. If you won't allow the Cheapo graphics since they have the same RGB quality as the Horror tileset, then this level can easily be remade in the Tree style.
2. (warning, this is Neo Lemmings Plus II-related for those who haven't seen the changes in the Genius rating yet):
I was surprsied that you replaced Genius 18 "A Little Breather" with a harder level. While I do agree that it's can be awkward for an easy level to be in the Genius rating, I felt that this level should not be removed entirely (especially since the Tree style is rarely used for this pack). I still felt that this one was a decent challenge, and should come back in this pack.
I just tried the levels by exit, Giga, namida and IchoTolot. Here are replays (using Player V1.33n).
@exit
A brilliant facade: Not yet solved. I expect some major fiddling is required.
aT niGHt: Good level, except for the ONML-stYLe tITlE ;).
Skullduggery: My solution is pretty straight-forward and not that interesting. Might be a backroute though.
@GigaLem
Overall I wonder about the many (ofter rather harsh) time limits. Do you really feel that the levels get more interesting with all these time limits?
Back and Forth: VERY similar to finlay's Fiery Depth in finpack01.dat. Both levels are very good though.
Son of a birch!: Easy level, except for the combination of frenzy gimmick and skill assignments on different parts of the level nearly at the same time...
Tip of the Blade: The time limit is very annoying here. Otherwise a good level, that allows for a solution saving 21/20.
Special Beam Cannon: HIDDEN TRAP :evil::evil:! Otherwise an interesting level.
Clockwork Grey: Good level. The one-way-field extends into the terrain above. This is slightly annoying if one bashes away parts of this terrain and instead of continuing ahead, the worker lemmings gets trapped!
Coarse, grain, ...: Just build over any obstacle and you will be fine...
Up a creek...: Most likely a backroute.
Harder, Better, ...: I have one builder spare ;). Good level, though I wonder at the use of some parts of the terrain.
Try to keep him digging: I tried, but failed ;P. Feels like a backroute.
Lemming Train: Excellent level :thumbsup:.
Into the Builderless: Not really a fan of this one. namida has more interesting no-builder levels in his LemPlus series and the level is not really beautiful.
Lemming climb no stairs: Nice interplay between climber/cloner/bomber.
Quarantine: Far too straight-forward builder level for my taste.
Quick Piramid: Another Frenzy gimmick level...
Mobi, did you shrink the levels?: Excellent design and puzzle :thumbsup::thumbsup:.
Slap me... Not my favourite.
@namida
Still one climber spare, but now I made use of the little brick floating in the middle, so I guess I am pretty near the intended solution. The time limit is evil though.
@IchoTolot
Glider assignment is somewhat frustrating, especially as the ones facing left require quite a bit of precision. Otherwise a very good level that needs quite a bit of planning. At first, I missed the small terrain pieces on top of the exit though...
I had an idea for a level based on a backroute I found in Revenge of the Lemmings. :) Since I couldn't think of a way to work it into a Doomsday Lemmings II level, I decided to make a level for this instead. :) Enjoy!
If you need a hint...
The key to crowd control (and release) is a variation on the Medi 6 trick. This version of the trick would not work on most other clones, but it's probably doable on Lix.
Here's a hint:
The solution involves three workers. Two of them die; the third death is one of the crowd lemmings.
I'm not certain, and I'd have to test in regular Lemmix, but I think the backroute in One-Way Rock might be NeoLemmix-only because of the different OWW handling. Experimentally I gave the pieces above the rock the one-way tag as well, and now the backroute doesn't work/isn't as easy to pull off. I'm going to update it, however, so this change won't be needed.
-------
EDIT TO AVOID DOUBLE POST:
I've updated two of the levels Nepster mentioned. They are based off of Nepster's NeoLemmix conversions (hope you're okay with that) but have additional fixes.
In addition, I've provided an additional level from these NeoLemmix conversions, that I'm thinking of redesigning, so I'd like to see what people like/don't like about it.
A note about the backroute definition: Just because a solution isn't covered by the backroute definition doesn't guarantee that the solution isn't a backroute. It just sets an idea of what would definitely be considered a backroute, and how lenient the solution may be. Some levels are, of course, more open ended than others.
Changelog for "Save the top, free the bottom"
Removed time limit
Added tops to the exits
Removed unused skills from skillset
Backroute Definition:
This level is open ended; any solution that works goes.
Changelog for "One-Way Rock"
Can no longer bypass one way arrows.
Removed time limit
Redesigned much of the level around one of the possible solutions for the original.
Added one-way down arrows to the first obstacle to the right of the entrance to prevent backroutes.
Design no longer relies on the top edge of the map being solid.
Removed unused skills from skillset.
Facelift
Backroute Definition:
Any solution that does not use a climber on both sides of the entrance is a backroute (one to climb over the one-way down arrow obstacle, one to climb up the gap to the left of the entrance). (I don't believe you don't need to use both provided climbers, but it is faster)
Any solution that deviates SIGNIFICANTLY from the intended solution (see replay of intended solution) is a backroute.
Note that the floaters are there for safety, and are not actually required to solve the level.
There should be slightly more builders than are needed to solve the level to give the player a little breathing room, so don't worry if you have a few extra.
Here are my replays to the two levels. Not sure if One-Way Rock is a backroute, but it looks like it follows most of your guidelines on how the solution should not be a backroute.
TL;DR for the upcoming description of your solution for One Way Rock:
It is not a backroute. I got carried away in my description of why it's an acceptable solution (complete with screenshots!), so if you want to read it, there's a nice long explanation about it.
Close enough on One Way Rock. My intended solution digs slightly further down the one-way-down obstacle and uses the miner from the left side of it, but I typically don't mind minor variations on my intended solutions, and your solution definitely counts as a minor variation. It doesn't look like it would be too difficult to modify the level to enforce what I'd intended over your solution if I really wanted to but I don't think there's any reason to do so, since they're so similar.
Screenshots:
My solution is on the left, yours is on the right. They are similar enough that I don't consider your solution to be a backroute.
(http://i.imgur.com/AHjNQog.png)(http://i.imgur.com/D05fc9x.png)
You might notice that I used an extra basher. When I choose my skillsets, I prefer to make things generous enough to avoid precise assignments when doing so won't create backroutes, so that basher is only there so you don't have to worry about the miner placement as much.
Your solution to the other level is pretty much identical to mine.
----
I don't believe I mentioned this in the post where I submitted the levels, but I'm not horribly attached the names of them. If anyone has a better idea for the names, just run it by me. If I'm okay with the alternate suggestion, it's perfectly fine with me to rename them.
---
Should I avoid specifying music tracks? I didn't really think about it when I originally submitted the levels, but since NeoLemmix has the ability to do so, I usually specify a track that I feel goes well with the level rather than using randomness or a set order.
For reference, One-Way Rock is set to orig_17 (Coming Around the Mountain). The other level doesn't specify a track, probably because I made minimal changes to it, and therefore it required minimal testing.
I made a relatively straightforward, simple level that's intended to be a simple intro to having to plan where certain skills need to go.
As to what I mean by this,
If you do what seems the most obvious, you'll find yourself either short a digging tool, or you'll lose too many lemmings.
It uses my one of my updated Genesis sets (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2771.msg58738), but since it doesn't use any of the features I added, it should be fully compatible with the old versions of the sets.
On another subject, does anyone have a replay of Test Chamber v4? I'd like to know if I've patched out all the backroutes, and also if anyone's managed to solve it properly...
Speaking of replays, I have some of the two levels Nepster updated. I'm not certain, since I don't know what the intended solution is, but I highly suspect I backrouted Underwater Operation quite badly.
Here's a replay for Plan B. This one didn't use the builders, so it might be a backroute.
The builders are supposed to be used, but you did correctly notice that you have to go underneath the water rather than over it.
If you want to get a little closer to the intended solution before I figure out a decent-looking way to fix the level, only use the miner to free the blocker; do not continue mining afterwards. I'm a little new to backroute testing so I still overlook stupid things.
Made another tutorial level; this one for the splitter.
I think I can do better, though, so I might try again later - after all, a larger crowd of lemmings than this level has would probably demonstrate the object better, but I came up with a little "story" of sorts to go with the level.
It happens to fit Rule 1 for the contest, but I'm not submitting it even though I still could if I want to, since it's a tutorial level and therefore probably won't stand a chance against other more serious contenders, even if it does have a little story to go with it.
You can feel free to try to interpret it yourself, or you can read the spoiler here:
A lemming couple is experiencing a rough patch in their relationship and end up breaking up, because one of the lemmings is a terrible person lemming. That jerkface of a lemming carries on with his/her life, while our hero is left devastated and considers jumping into the nearby polluted river to end his/her life. At the last minute, he/she changes his/her mind (represented by a swimmer pickup skill) and climbs out of the river and goes on to have a better life without that jerk (represented by a fancier exit).
I have no idea how or why I came up with this, but don't worry - this is not based off of any real life experiences of mine, though with the very large number of people in the world I'm sure at least one has gone through something similar to what is depicted here.
Potential modifications:
- Might add 1 additional of each skill to make it a bit harder to screw up, since it is a tutorial level after all.
- Alternatively: might scrap it and make something better demonstrating the behavior of a splitter in a large crowd of lemmings. This level was very much "first thing I came up with."
- In addition, I might try to draw splitters for another tileset so I don't have to use bricks (but can still use an original game tileset). But even ignoring my bias towards official-game tilesets, I don't know any others off the top of my head that have the object. That would have to be done for the experimental version though since that won't work in the stable version.