So, on this subject, I myself am playing the Genesis levels pretty much for the first time (I've had brief looks and goes at a few of them before, but haven't really properly played through). These are some VERY good levels. o_OThey are, and what I like the most about that version is that's almost like a level-pack, since it has so many unique levels that don't appear elsewhere.
So, on this subject, I myself am playing the Genesis levels pretty much for the first time (I've had brief looks and goes at a few of them before, but haven't really properly played through). These are some VERY good levels. o_OThey are, and what I like the most about that version is that's almost like a level-pack, since it has so many unique levels that don't appear elsewhere.
... just played "No World Without You"; is it just me or was the original version of this level harder than this repeat? o_O (Of course, I used a similar solution for this one, so that might be why - I'd already worked out the key trick to it. Which is a pretty clever trick, I must say.)
Okay, so I'm about a third of the way through Sunsoft. It's still nothing like what I'd expected based on what I heard about it, but it's still at least pretty good. Definitely a huge improvement over Present.
3) direct drop is unintended, and doesn't work on amiga. so it probably shouldn't work in the player. to be fair it does work in dos lemmings, but if we are replicating that, we should also replicate the DOS music and sounds.It actually does work in the Amiga version. Trust me--I've made it happen, and I can do it again.
4) levels that should have 100 lemmings have 80 instead (laugh). ok, i know this was inherited from DOS lemmings itself, but i think there should be a version with lemming counts corrected.Can you give any examples of such levels?
6) last three bricks of a builder should clink to alert you. this DOES work in dos version though it is hard to hear.They do make a sound, and it's the same one that's used in the Amiga version.
Yeah. go play 2 player mode. notice that level called "Just for fun or to your doom?" Hint. it's your doom, even though the lemmings drop onto the exit. There is code to cause fallers to ignore the exit and go splat. Until you make a recording of direct drop working on amiga i will not believe it.3) direct drop is unintended, and doesn't work on amiga. so it probably shouldn't work in the player. to be fair it does work in dos lemmings, but if we are replicating that, we should also replicate the DOS music and sounds.It actually does work in the Amiga version. Trust me--I've made it happen, and I can do it again.
Fun 8 is the first one that has 80 on DOS and 100 on amiga. if your "amiga" version has 80 it's not the original.4) levels that should have 100 lemmings have 80 instead (laugh). ok, i know this was inherited from DOS lemmings itself, but i think there should be a version with lemming counts corrected.Can you give any examples of such levels?
Okay i can hear the sound, but not over the music, and it sounds NOTHING like the amiga version.6) last three bricks of a builder should clink to alert you. this DOES work in dos version though it is hard to hear.They do make a sound, and it's the same one that's used in the Amiga version.
Yeah. go play 2 player mode. notice that level called "Just for fun or to your doom?" Hint. it's your doom, even though the lemmings drop onto the exit. There is code to cause fallers to ignore the exit and go splat. Until you make a recording of direct drop working on amiga i will not believe it.I tested that level just now, and it seems that you're right. I even made sure that the lemmings were really falling into the exit's trigger area, and direct drop wasn't working. To definitively verify that direct drop doesn't exist in the Amiga version, I hacked a savestate to include the attached level, which has two streams of lemmings falling from an equal and lethal height, one of which falls in front of an exit; all of the lemmings went splat.
Fun 8 is the first one that has 80 on DOS and 100 on amiga. if your "amiga" version has 80 it's not the original.Oh, I thought you meant changing the levels that have 100 lemmings to have only 80. (And now that I reread your comment, I can tell that that's clearly not what you meant. Sorry about that.)
Okay i can hear the sound, but not over the music, and it sounds NOTHING like the amiga version.Technically, they're the same sound; the Amiga one is just slower.
also sound for raising and lowering release rate, which exists in Amiga, is missing. To be fair, it IS missing from DOS version.
actual Amiga version. actual sound is a LOT more audible and clanky then what lemmix uses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0tXh_baKE
Okay, I tried it on another computer, and the sound is properly audible. just not on MY computer. any idea what would cause this?I've encountered this myself on a couple of Linux boxes, and never found a solution, so I'd be really interested to know the answer to this as well!
I had that issue myself when using Linux at one point, and as far as I'm aware there's no fix for it. It doesn't actually mute the sounds as such, but rather, it seems to store a few sounds up, then after a while play them all at once. Which isn't really much better. xDActually, you'll have to excuse me... I was actually getting mixed up, and was thinking of Lemmini! Sorry about that.
I had that issue myself when using Linux at one point, and as far as I'm aware there's no fix for it. It doesn't actually mute the sounds as such, but rather, it seems to store a few sounds up, then after a while play them all at once. Which isn't really much better. xDActually, you'll have to excuse me... I was actually getting mixed up, and was thinking of Lemmini! Sorry about that.
I had that issue myself when using Linux at one point, and as far as I'm aware there's no fix for it. It doesn't actually mute the sounds as such, but rather, it seems to store a few sounds up, then after a while play them all at once. Which isn't really much better. xDActually, you'll have to excuse me... I was actually getting mixed up, and was thinking of Lemmini! Sorry about that.
(...)
Feature requests.
1) visible sound effect for builder clink (optional, feature from WIndows Lemings)
2) choice of boing or yippee for level exit.
3) fast forward behavior like Windows version. actual fast forward instead of 10 second skip.
4) DOS music.
5) configuration options for switching between Amiga and DOS behaviors when they are different.
There is no escape to abort on Amiga. you MUST click nuke!Actually, there is. Amiga Forever doesn't let you use that control unless you change a setting, though.
Understood. But then why does it have amiga sounds? we can easily extract the non music DOS sounds by capture from dosbox in sfx mode. It'sthe music ones tha are tricky. That said the dos music is just as tracker like as the amiga. SO we jsut have to parse the sequencing data (slighly different fromm amiag) and sample the instruments and convert to mod file.
Almost everything you've mentioned here pertains to differences between the DOS and Amiga versions. Traditional Lemmix is supposed to be a reproduction of the DOS versions of Lemmings, so (especially if it's gameplay mechanics) anything that correctly emulates DOS but is incorrect for Amiga is definitely staying as-is.
Wow. that's actually impressive. how does that affect gameplay? is there a use for it?
One thing I will mention is about the continuous shrugger glitch - on DOS, this only happens in Orig. The exact same thing holds true for Lemmix - only Orig, or players based off Orig (CustLemmixOrig, Lemmings Plus DOS Project) have this mechanic; it won't happen under for example the ONML Lemmix player.
If you'd like to create your own version of Lemmix that attempts to emulate the Amiga version rather than the DOS one, the source code is freely available. I'm not going to create a third version, as I'm already maintaining both the standard Lemmix and NeoLemmix, as well as the NeoLemmix Editor and working on my own level pack projects. I'm happy to offer some pointers in the right direction if you need it, though don't expect me to do all the work for you.I'd do it, but Delphi compiler isn't free. that's the holdup. Tell me where to get a working compiler for free and I'll try it.
Looking forward to it, as it will solve the audio problem i have.QuoteFeature requests.
1) visible sound effect for builder clink (optional, feature from WIndows Lemings)
2) choice of boing or yippee for level exit.
3) fast forward behavior like Windows version. actual fast forward instead of 10 second skip.
4) DOS music.
5) configuration options for switching between Amiga and DOS behaviors when they are different.
1) This is the kind of feature that doesn't directly affect gameplay so may be implementable, but it's not going to be a high priority as that will be quite some work to do.
2) Not going to happen. Changing sound effects is a *very* simple change (you don't even have to alter any code, just swap a couple of files around and rebuild the resources then recompile), so you can create your own version that does this if you like.but boing is accurate to DOS, and yippee isn't. I do think it's cute, but it's not accurate.
3) This already exists. Press F to toggle it on and off.I didn't know this. I read the docs and did not know this.
4) I'd really love to do this one, but as far as I'm aware there's no Delphi library that supports DOS Lemmings's music format. The closest I could do would be, if accurate MIDIs exist of them, converting those to MODs (though converted MIDIs are very large in file size compared to normal MODs). I do have versions of the Master System musics (as Lemmings Plus DOS Project uses these), but that's not the same (though it does have four unique tracks that aren't found in Amiga or DOS, and some tracks (especially London Bridge) are a lot better).For most songs you can just use the amiga mods and swap instruments. TenLem and Lemming1 are the most different. that and possible doggie. I suspect the dos musics could be converted directly to MOD, i just don't have the know how to do it.
5) As I said, traditional Lemmix is meant to be a replication of *DOS* Lemmings.
By the way, the Amiga version level files are out there if you want. You could use them via LookForLVLFiles. I actually have them handy in some form (I think the raw LVL files plus ODDTABLE; but I can convert that to a LVL file for each level fairly easily). This is because NeoLemmix players are based off the Amiga version levels.
Understood. But then why does it have amiga sounds? we can easily extract the non music DOS sounds by capture from dosbox in sfx mode. It'sthe music ones tha are tricky. That said the dos music is just as tracker like as the amiga. SO we jsut have to parse the sequencing data (slighly different fromm amiag) and sample the instruments and convert to mod file.
QuoteOne thing I will mention is about the continuous shrugger glitch - on DOS, this only happens in Orig. The exact same thing holds true for Lemmix - only Orig, or players based off Orig (CustLemmixOrig, Lemmings Plus DOS Project) have this mechanic; it won't happen under for example the ONML Lemmix player.Wow. that's actually impressive. how does that affect gameplay? is there a use for it?
I'd do it, but Delphi compiler isn't free. that's the holdup. Tell me where to get a working compiler for free and I'll try it.
That aside - for the next update, what do people think about the disabling clicking the skill bar while paused? Keeping it as-is replicates DOS accurately, but since you can still select while paused via the F keys, there's ultimately no impact on gameplay mechanics, only on the user interface. (It's a VERY simple change to make.)
That aside - for the next update, what do people think about the disabling clicking the skill bar while paused? Keeping it as-is replicates DOS accurately, but since you can still select while paused via the F keys, there's ultimately no impact on gameplay mechanics, only on the user interface. (It's a VERY simple change to make.)
Ugh. I don't understand why you'd want to take away control features from the player. My laptop doesn't have working F keys (they are almost all co-opted for things like changing the monitor brightness) so that would make the game unplayable for me, except when I happen to want bombers. Instead, making new players is a good opportunity to include more control features -- I haven't tried out your players so I don't know whether these are already in -- P as an alternative for pause, and Z/X to select the previous and next skill.
Currently, traditional Lemmix disables skill selection with the mouse while paused except by using the keyboard, which is true to how DOS works. I was asking if that should be changed - it seems there's little reason why it shouldn't be, so I'll do that.
Currently, traditional Lemmix disables skill selection with the mouse while paused except by using the keyboard, which is true to how DOS works. I was asking if that should be changed - it seems there's little reason why it shouldn't be, so I'll do that.
Agreed. Honestly the DOS behavior feels more like a bug than a feature. I might go even one step further and also allow for (if not already allowed) skill assignments while paused (similar to Lix or Lemmings 2: select and click on a lemming while paused, skill will be assigned and game unpauses--though I care less about the latter).
I'll make a note to do that in the next update. On that note, if the algorithm is known, I'd quite like to implement the actual DOS passwords too.
nibble 0 | nibble 1 | nibble 2 | nibble 3 | nibble 4 | nibble 5 | nibble 6
-----------|----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|----------
3 2 1 0| 3 2 1 0| 3 2 1 0| 3 2 1 0| 3 2 1 0| 3 2 1 0| 3 2 1 0
8 4 2 1| 8 4 2 1| 8 4 2 1| 8 4 2 1| 8 4 2 1| 8 4 2 1| 8 4 2 1
| | | | | |
L0 %0 F0 S0|S1 L1 0 %1|S2 L2 %2 F1|S4 S3 %3 L3|%4 S5 L4 F2|S6 %5 F3 L5|L7 L6 0 %6
There are two major things to notice here:version number not updated yet. it stills says v21 (but does play the music)
Another bug. fadein and fadeout should be at lemmings framerate. compare in dosbox, the fadein and fadeout are slow.
music should also fadeout.
I'll make it clear that I will not make it possible to select a lemming that usually couldn't've been selected. Rather, how this would work is that if you're (for example) selecting Right, and you click somewhere that would've picked a left-facing lemming, the click is simply ignored; this way you still aren't able to do anything that wouldn't be possible under DOS.
Another thing I might consider - if people are interested - is adding the Challenge Mode and Timer Mode options that NeoLemmix has.
For those who haven't been following NeoLemmix, these options basically make the skill count / timer respectively start at zero and count upwards, instead of counting down from a limit.
Keep up the good work Namida! I tested Lemmix Player Collection for the first time yesterday and it worked really well, finally get to play these Genesis levels in a easy accessible way.
I think I found a bug though (haven't really tested it a lot). When switching abilities with the keyboard keys and I accidently go to the pause button and try to go left I again I can't with the keyboard keys.
I'm sorry if this have been brought up before but I can't find any information on which passwords are being used. Are there any possibility to change to an desired level within, for example, the genesis levels? If I have played the first 19 levels and want to start at 20, are there any possibility to do so?
Added an "Extra" player, which contains a lot of the levels that weren't in the DOS version. Most but not all are from the Genesis version. It contains a total of 126 levels, see first post for detailed info. In short, the sources are (all are from versions of Orig, except for one Amiga level that comes from H93/H94):
Genesis version: 105 levels
Master System version: 12 levels
Amiga version: 1 level (H93/H94, not orig)
Amiga special editions: 6 levels
Mac version: 2 levels (1 from the demo, 1 from the normal game)
I added it to the bundle download, but since a lot of you probably already have all the other players that are in it, here's a link for this one by itself:
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/download/c7iqctlk3qhqc27/LemmixPlayerExtra.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/download/c7iqctlk3qhqc27/LemmixPlayerExtra.zip</a>
There's no NeoLemmix version of it yet; there will be with the V1.09n release. Since from V1.09n NeoLemmix is switching to use the (standard) Amiga versions as the level source rather than the DOS versions where applicable, the H93/H94 level in here from Amiga will obviously be replaced with the equivalent from DOS.
NOTE: Although it works, using LookForLVLFiles with this player is probably not the easiest thing to do. The Genesis levels have a hardcoded switch to change their graphic set number (so they use the Genesis ones rather than the DOS ones), not all styles are present (only the ones that are needed for included levels), and there's also one other level that has something hardcoded. I won't say what exactly, but I'm sure it'll be an appreciated detail by those who've played the level in question in its original form. I'd reccomend just use one of the other players for that; up to you though. <img src="http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />
EDIT: If you're getting crashes saying "cannot find vgaspec511.dat" on the 6th and 12th levels in the Sega Master System levels, redownload it, I fixed it. <img src="http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" /> I just forgot to turn off a NeoLemmix flag that NeoLemEdit enables by default - this is exactly the thing that the latest CustLemmix update protects against crashes from. xD