Post by: ccexplore on December 16, 2011, 10:25:51 PM
I recently started playing Lemmings Revolution and here are glitches I've seen so far (undoubtedly more to come in near future):
Lemmings Revolution (PC)
[edit: this list is currently collected mostly using the patched version of the game, with key game files timestamped 6/26/2000 instead of 4/14/2000. Once I finish the game I will update the list with all differences I find between patched vs unpatched]
Climbers
Summary: very similar to analogous glitches in original Lemmings, but some with a Revolution twist
- When a climber encounters a ceiling and falls down, it comes away from the wall by one grid-cell, instead of falling down right next to the wall. See climber-fall-offset.png on this post for a screenshot.
- If the terrain that the climber is on is removed, it hoists immediately and converts to a walker in mid-air for one frame. However, in general the game doesn't allow you to assign most skills whenever the lemming is standing on mid-air (or even on water for non-water lemmings), so unless you want to assign climber, floater or bomber at that exact moment (and likely you can do so at other times instead), this is probably not a very useful glitch.
- If a lemming trapped inside terrain is made a climber, or a climber becomes trapped in terrain, it repeatedly begins climbing, gets stuck, and falls slightly (turning around in the process). It gains one grid-cell in height each time. It also drifts horizontally to the right as it repeats this maneuver basically every 2 times. This is because when the stuck climber falls, lands, and turns right (but not if he turns left), he is allowed to walk forward (despite being stuck in terrain!) for one grid-cell before starting to climb again. This right-only extra walking creates the rightward drift. So the lemming effectively moves diagonally up-and-right gradually during the maneuver, allow you to pass through walls not just vertically, but horizontally as well. See this post for a set of zipped screenshots depicting the effect.
[Note that when the stuck climber falls, turns left and climbs again facing left, this transition is directly from faller to climber, so you can't assign non-permanent skills to a stuck climber with him facing left. Whereas you can with him facing right during his "extra walking" phase.] - When a hoister "oh-no" (explosion countdown reaches 0), he ends up one grid-cell away from the wall, and therefore will fall back down. This works facing left or right. See this post for a sreenshot.
- reset a bomber: after a bomber finishes the countdown ("oh-no") but before he actually explodes, you can assign a non-bomber, non-permanent skill, and this will "reset" him so he doesn't explode. This works on blockers about to explode too, so you can free a blocker this way.
- The same glitch above also works with lemmings about to explode due to nuking, after the nuke countdown finishes when the lemmings start their "oh-no".
- If a lemming transforms to "oh-no" just before he hits the ground, he will not splat regardless of how high the fall was. Together with the "reset a bomber" glitch, you can survive a high fall without floaters by using a bomber plus a suitable spare skill. (reported by LemSteven)
- You can use the "reset a bomber" glitch on a right-facing climber who is in the midst of climbing a wall. For some reason, this does not work for left-facing climbers. This is why it is possible to save 100% on "Quick as you can", but not on "Can't get there from here". (LemSteven)
- if you use the "reset a bomber" glitch on a lemming entering a teleport, the lemming won't enter the teleport, and he will start walking in a strange manner. He still behaves like a regular walker, though. If he returns to the teleport later, he will enter and return to normal. (LemSteven)
- You can use the "reset a bomber" glitch on a drowning lemming. Normally this isn't very useful since being in water, you can't even assign any useful skills, and even if you time it just right so that the lemming is at the very bottom (making skill assignments possible) when it "oh-no", there just isn't much you can do down there that doesn't end up re-drowning the lemming eventually.
However, there is one awesome exception: if you drown an upside-down (ie. antigravity) lemming in normal water, it will fall up and away from the water surface (since after all, up is down for antigravity). This is shown in screenshot upsidedown-lem-triggering-objects.png (bottom-right) from this post. Hence if you can arrange for the lemming to "descend" onto dry land during its drowning, and have it "oh-no" in mid-descend, he's ready to be reset once on dry land, for further usage.
A drowner reset this way will have the following odd behavior:- For the skills of bashing, mining, building, and digging, the lemming will only carry out one full cycle of animation (ie. one stroke, one build brick, etc.), and then the lemming just stops and freezes. The "frozen" lemming is still considered in the middle of carrying out the skill (so for example, if it is building when it freezes, you can't just assign another builder, you have to assign some other skill first, and then you can assign a builder to force it to build another brick).
- Fortunately it can walk, climb, fall and float without "freezing". Of course, getting it to start walking can be tricky, as you start the lemming off via reset-a-bomber (so it has to start off performing some sort of skill). If the lemming faces left, using the "left builder block to walk" glitch is probably the most efficient way to revert it to walking. Otherwise, I think if you can arrange for it to revert to walking or falling as the natural result of carrying out a skill for only one cycle, that'll probably work too.
- The walking animation looks funny. Basically the lemming often stops animating as it walks, so it kinda just slides around.
- The lemming retains the translucency of drowning lemmings at all times.
- The lemming can still trigger all objects in this state, including the exit, blockers, and the antigravity pad.
- If the lemming is upside-down and tries to fall off the top boundary of the level, it will instead get stuck there without dying. You can't do much with it though, since it's still considered in the middle of falling/floating, leaving you with very few useful skill assignment choices. You can kill it with a bomber or nuke if needed. This glitch doesn't work with the bottom boundary as the lemming, even in its weird state, will go splat off the bottom boundary.
- When a lemming explodes, the game renders a sort of "gut splatter" onto the surface of the cylinder, near where the lemming is. This splatter will eventually fade out. But while it is being displayed, it may obscure other graphics that extend far enough into the cylinder surface. For example, it will make a retracted wall look like some of its squares are gone (see screenshot explosion-graphical-artifacts.png from this post). This is purely graphical and does not actually affect whatever objects are there behavior-wise. It may even conceivably be dependent on your graphics card.
- (glitch arguable) When a blocker is assigned bomber, as soon as the countdown finishes the blocker no longer blocks (other lemmings can pass through).
- In some cases it's possible to get a single lemming to pass through a blocker, by assigning him a skill like basher really close to the blocker, just before the lemming turns around. More investigation is needed to work out the details, but I suspect it may have to do with the game grid-aligning the position of the lemming to fit with the skill action.
- Mechanics of blocker fields: to really understand all the unexpected cool things you can do with blockers, such as blocker-stacking, you need to understand how blockers work in the game. Blockers work in Revolution by setting special "blocker-field" status to the vertical column of 4 grid-cells at the blocker's position, starting from head down to feet of the blocker lemming. Grid-cells with blocker-field status (shortened henceforth to "blocker-cells") has the following properties:
- Blocker-field status is orthongal to other grid-cell status, rather than exclusive. This means you do not have "steel-canceling" or "trigger-canceling" glitches (as far as I know anyway, I haven't tested all combinations) like in original Lemmings. A grid-cell can simultaneously have both blocker-field status as well as other existing statuses like steel, one-way, or whatever.
- However, blocker-field status is not cumulative, meaning that if you set 2 blockers at the same grid-cell position, and free only one of them (eg. via the "reset a bomber" glitch, and doesn't matter which one), the moment that lemming is freed, the grid cells in question will have blocker-field statuses cleared, despite the fact that you still have that 2nd blocker in the same grid-cell position. Simply put, while the 2nd blocker will remain a blocker, he will no longer actually block other lemmings from walking through him. See this post for a screenshot of this.
- Blocker-cells can be landed (even splatting) and walked on like regular terrain, allowing such tricks as stacking a bunch of blockers vertically, or to use a bunch of water-lemming blockers to "cover up" the water surface creating a safe path for non-water lemmings to walk on.
- Walker lemmings (even those assigned climbers, obviously) attempting to walk into a blocker-cell, will turn around instead.
- Blocker-cells can even be climbed on like regular terrain. Because walkers are turned around by blocker-cells, you need to have an already-climbing climber to see this; thus the best way to test this is to set a blocker at the top of a climbable wall. See this post for a screenshot.
- Terrain (eg. build brick) inside blocker-cells cannot be removed by bashing, mining or exploding, kinda like steel.
- However, blocker-cells can be removed by digging! You can thus dig away the blocker-field status (in addition to any actual terrain in the grid-cell) making the blocker ineffective, without actually freeing the blocker. (See this post for a screenshot.)
- Builders do not get turned around by blocker-cells, but the usual terrain rules causing the builder to stop building, works with blocker-cells as well. (Thus when building really close to a blocker facing it, the builder basically stops building as if running into a wall.)
- Miners are affected by blocker-cells. It appears that at the moment the mining stroke begins to remove terrain ahead, if the grid-cell it tries to clear terrain from has blocker-field status, the miner gets turned around (and the terrain not removed from the grid-cell). I think this applies on each animation frame of a miner stroke that removes terrain, not 100% sure though.
- left builder block to walk: assigning blocker to a left-facing builder will cause it to walk instead of block. You don't even need any special timing to do this. Doesn't work with right-facing builder.
- (glitch arguable) given the mechanics of how builders work and how blockers work (see above section on blocker-field mechanics), it's possible to build over a blocker in such a way that other lemmings walking up the bridge will still be turned around by the blocker underneath, even though the builder is unaffected by the blocker. See this post for a screenshot.
- When building left, during the short pause ("wait") after the lemming runs out of build bricks, you can't immediately assign him skills until he starts walking. Whereas when building right, you can assign as soon as the wait phase starts.
- (glitch arguable) The water surface acts as a ceiling for an upside-down (antigravity) lemming building "up" against it.
- A basher can remove terrain behind him. Be especially careful when assigning a builder behind a basher. (reported by LemSteven)
- On the level "Something fishy", when a lemming is bashing through an area and a builder starts to build through the area that was bashed through, the built steps will start to disappear slowly behind him, in a manner that looks like an invisible lemming is bashing through them (the actual basher is very far away from the builder). This doesn't happen if the basher is finished and no longer bashing. (reported by thick molases)
Summary: remarkably, the infamous miner glitch from original Lemmings lives on in this game too!
- basic miner glitch: Miners are positioned one grid-cell too low during the few frames of their animation when terrain is being removed. This makes it possible to have the miner fall through the floor while leaving it intact for other lemmings to walk on, by assigning a blocker, bomber or digger at the right moment. (It takes multiple frames to remove all the terrain during a mining stroke, and terrain is removed from top to bottom.) See miner-glitch.png screenshot on this post for more details.
- At the very frame when a miner stroke just breaks through (you can't be late, or you won't be able to assign skills anymore until he finishes falling), assign builder to the miner, and the first build brick will leave a gap in the terrain. See miner-glitch-2.png screenshot on this post to see exactly what I mean. This only works facing right; facing left, the build brick is positioned differently and does not leave a gap.
- In some terrain setup where a left-facing miner is standing on terrain only one grid-cell thick, but the next "step" down has enough terrain so you aren't breaking through the floor, the miner automatically stops mining anyway after the mining stroke. He doesn't fall through the terrain though, so it's not the same as the basic miner glitch. See miner-glitch-3.png on this post for a screenshot if you're confused by my poor description. Appears to only work facing left (in the symmetric situation facing right, miner continues mining without interruption).
- (glitch arguable) For some objects, you can easily avoid triggering the object merely by getting slightly below floor level of where the object rests. For example, if a lever switch or teleporter is not resting on steel, you can simply dig down once and then bash through the entire length of area that would trigger the object. This lowers the floor enough for you and other lemmings to bypass the object without triggering it.
- direct-drop to exit: lemmings falling onto the exit's trigger area will exit if there is terrain under it, even if they would splat from the fall if the exit wasn't there. In fact in some cases, you may actually even see and hear the lemming first go splat, but then hear "yippie" and the number of lemmings saved go up.
- Lemmings falling directly onto exit trigger can exit, even if the exit trigger is in mid-air with no terrain to actually land on.
- aborted exit jump: when a lemming is in the middle of jumping into the exit balloon, you can abort the jump by making the lemming "oh-no", or simply assign skills to it. If it is done too early during the jump, the lemming just ends up re-triggering exiting again. However, once its jumping has moved the lemming sufficiently farther away from the cylinder's axis than the normal distance, this will apparently mess up the object collision detection, and the lemming will no longer re-trigger the exit after the jump is aborted.
In this state, the lemming will react to terrain normally and carry out most skill actions normally, but:- The lemming won't trigger any objects! (eg. this and other exits, water, switches, etc.).
- The lemming is stuck with the special 3D orientation of the exit-jumping (ie. basically 90 degrees off from normal orientation, ie. facing directly into or away from camera), as well as the abnormally farther distance-from-axis. In other words, it moves funny.
See screenshot aborted-exit-jump.png on this post for examples of the above effects.
To revert the lemming back into normal state, assign it blocker. A blocker will gradually move itself back towards the cylinder's axis (this is a normal side effect of blockers) until the distance to axis is back to normal. Free the blocker and it's back to regular behavior.
- During a lemming's jump into the exit balloon, its vertical position is in fact continually updated according to where it is at the jump. In particular, at the final parts of the jump when it is dropping into the balloon basket, his vertical position will lie below floor level of where the exit trigger is. Together with the "aborted exit jump" glitch above, you can take advantage of the vertical positioning as in these examples:
- If the lemming goes "oh-no" at this point, and the floor is thin enough so the lemming, being below the exit trigger, is now in mid-air, he'll fall.
- You can start digging or bashing from the below-exit position, if the skill assignment is permitted (ie. if there is terrain below the lemming's feet, as required in order to assign many of the skills)
(This post has screenshots for the above effects.)
- (glitch arguable) Triggered objects don't care whether the lemming is upside-down (ie. from an antigravity device) or not, so it's possible to achieve funny/unexpected things with upside-down lemmings like jumping into an exit balloon while upside-down, drowning in (normal) water upside-down (with the drowning corpse floating away from the water, as per the lemming's inverted gravity), etc. See screenshot upsidedown-lem-triggering-objects.png in this post for some examples.
- no splat on water (glitch arguable): water lemmings can land safely on water from any height, even heights that would splat when landing on normal terrain.
- underwater mining etc.: assign a water lemming miner while he's on water, and he will move diagonally downwards into the water just like mining through regular terrain. However nothing is actually destroyed (ie. the water surface remains exactly where it is at, there is no actual mining tunnel created in the water). Once the lemming starts walking, he will immediately snap back up to the water surface.
You can also bash and dig underwater with similar effects, although the game doesn't let you assign digger when standing directly on top of water (you have to start on regular terrain, like building one brick on water surface and then dig from there). Building underwater just lets you build one brick and then you stop, as if the lemming is stuck inside normal terrain. - The "underwater mining" glitch above also works with acid lemmings on acid. However, the resulting behavior is rather different, in that unlike water, the acid can actually retain the tunnels created! Moreover, lemmings react to acid material a bit differently from regular terrain. The overall behaviors are complex enough that, due to my limited testing so far, I will not attempt to (likely incorrectly) summarize for now. See screenshot acid-tunnel.png on this post to get a taste of the weirdness.
- You may trigger an underwater crab merely by assigning a skill while near it, even if you can walk across the water surface safely without triggering it. For an example, try assigning basher or blocker in the level "Kriss Kross" (5-2) near the crab.
- (glitch arguable, but definitely annoying) The game's mouse-handling prioritizes entrance objects over lemmings, so it's easy to mistakenly change the entrance release rate when you simply mean to assign a skill to a lemming near an entrance. Zooming in helps a little.
- The entrance "box" object is a sort of special terrain, with the following behavior:
- A walker can walk on/inside it, but a faller or floater will fall through it.
- To confuse matters further, a falling/floating "oh-no"er can land on/inside entrance material, though this is not as useful as it sounds (see below on skill assignment).
- It doesn't act as a wall for walkers though. For example, if you build to mid-height of the box to reach the box, walkers won't turn around at the sides of the box, or try to step up or climb up the sides. Instead you will just walk through the sides and through the entire length of the box at mid-height.
- And yet, a builder will react to the entrance box like it is a wall or ceiling.
- It is indestructible (I tested all removal actions including basher, miner, digger and exploder). Actually, an exploder can affect the graphics of the entrance, but not the lemming-interaction behaviors.
- It is not considered normal land for skill assignment purposes, so basically you can't assign most skills while standing on entrance material.
The entrance-interactions.png screenshot in this post includes many of the behaviors discussed above.
(Note: the "flaps" of an entrance are not special and basically has no interactions with lemmings AFAIK.)
- Only walkers are affected by an anti-gravity device; lemmings performing most other actions (even things like "oh-no") are unaffected. The easiest application is to pass through an antigrav by air-bashing.
- The teleporter "beam" is turned on whenever one or more lemmings begin to enter/exit a teleporter on one side, and normally the beam turns off when all lemmings have gone through to the other side (for the entering teleport) or when all lemmings have finished exiting (for the exiting teleport). However, if a lemming explodes in the middle of entering or exiting the teleporter, so that there's a lemming that never technically went through to the other side or never finished exiting, this will result in the teleporter beam staying on forever. (reported by thick molases)
- (glitch arguable) A lemming cannot re-trigger a teleporter until he has left and re-entered the teleporter's area of detection. So for example, if you set a blocker at the immediate exit point of the exiting teleporter, you can trap the exiting lemmings within the exiting teleporter's area of detection, and they won't be re-teleported (simply walking past the teleporter with no effects) until they can leave and re-enter the detection area. See screenshot not-teleporting.png from this post if still unclear.
- A timed door normally only allows a predetermined number of lemmings to pass, but you can sneak more through if you've got them bunched up tightly enough. (reported by LemSteven)
- Retractable walls will turn around a builder very similar to how blockers turn builders in original Lemmings. This works even when the retractable wall is actually in the retracted (opened) state (ie. not a wall for walkers). (LemSteven)
- Non-water lemmings can walk on water for an extremely short distance without drowning. (LemSteven)
- When an acid pool is drained, the lemmings don't fall into the drained pool, but will instead walk across the top. The exception to this is if an acid lemming is walking on the acid while it is draining, in which case the lemming will go down with the acid. (LemSteven)
- If a sped-up lemming enters another speed up pad, it reverts to normal speed but retains the speedy blur behind him. (reported by thick molases)
- If the timer runs out, it seems the game will determine win/lose based on number of lemmings at the moment the timer hits 0. Even though the game will run on for a few more seconds afterwards, and any additional lemmings that exit afterwards will be included in the post-level screen's count of lemmings saved, the game will still say you fail the level if you hadn't saved enough when timer hits 0. (See screenshot out-of-time.png from this post.)
- At a fall distance equal to digging 30 steps down, some lemmings may survive the fall while others go splat at the very same fall (like, literally at the same location). I'm still not 100% sure of the details, but based on some testing, it feels like the later (in terms of time elapsed) the lemming comes out of the entrance, the more likely it will survive such a fall. But even then it's not like there's an exact cut-off before which all lemmings splat; instead it kinda alternates with no obvious regularity, except for splatting less and less frequently. See safefall-imprecision.zip from this post for some example screenshots. I did test that fall distances of 29 steps and 31 steps do behave consistently (ie. all survive for the former, and all splat for the latter).
- Sometimes when you scroll around the level, you may cause a lemming to somehow pass through a blocker. Exact circumstances still unclear (only happened twice to me so far). I think for this to happen, the level can't be paused when you are scrolling, but I'm not sure. I've also encountered one time where this happens merely when I fast-forwarded the game for a bit, without any scrolling.
- Once I had a climber get stuck for no apparent reason. I can't remember what level it was but it was climbing up a straight wall and when it reached the top instead of falling, it stopped but appeared to keep climbing, even though he wasn't getting anywhere. I couldn't assign it any skill anymore, not even bomber. It stayed there "climbing in place" for the rest of the duration. (reported by thick molases)
- More than once I've had lemmings just vanished into thin air. Levels I remember seeing this are "Reduce and Simmer" and "Don't let them out". In the latter I think it happened at a certain spot where a lemming was bashing near the exit balloon, and it just disappeared with no splat sound or graphic or anything. I couldn't investigate it because every lemming that got near that particular spot vanished. I can't remember if the ticker reported a change in the number of lemmings. In "Reduce and Simmer" I had a climbing lemming reach a wall and it began to climb, but stopped halfway up and appeared to "mount" the wall when it wasn't at the top, then go into the terrain and vanish. It was always at a particular spot so maybe these are glitches with the levels and not in the game in general. (thick molases)
These are annoying glitches/flaws I've run into during the non-level-playing parts of the game. Some may be due to running the game on versions of Windows higher than when the game was released (ie. post-Win98).
- The game doesn't save your audio settings (volume of music and sound effects), you have to set it again each time you play the game.
- Using Alt+Tab to switch out of and back into the game almost always crashes the game when you try to go back into it, unless you're inside a level when you switch out.
- Even when inside a level, using Alt+Tab to switch between the game and other programs leads to loss of music in the game, until you restart the level or go back to pick another level.
- On Win7 I can't even get music to play at all no matter what.
- On Win7, the first time you're on the main menu right after starting the game, no text is displayed on the menu buttons. This corrects itself after you started playing a level and then go back to the main menu. Does not repro on XP.
- At the post-level screen where it shows you how many you need and how many you saved, the text is too dark, it's almost unreadable.
Post by: finlay on December 17, 2011, 01:53:42 AM
I do remember seeing a video of someone digging through the top of an entrance, but I don't think it really affected the game or anything.
Post by: LemSteven on December 17, 2011, 07:41:33 AM
- A timed door normally only allows a predetermined number of lemmings to pass, but you can sneak more through if you've got them bunched up tightly enough.
- Builders will always turn around upon reaching a retractable wall, regardless of whether the wall is open or closed.
- Non-water lemmings can walk on water for an extremely short distance without drowning.
- When an acid pool is drained, the lemmings don't fall into the drained pool, but will instead walk across the top. The exception to this is if an acid lemming is walking on the acid while it is draining, in which case the lemming will go down with the acid.
- A basher can remove terrain behind him. Be especially careful when assigning a builder behind a basher.
- If a lemming transforms to an "oh-noer" just before he hits the ground, he will not splat regardless of how high the fall was. Once he hits, you can use the "resetting a bomber" glitch to save him. This essentially means that you can use a bomber plus one other skill instead of a floater to survive long falls.
- The "resetting a bomber" glitch also works for lemmings who are being nuked.
- You can use the "resetting a bomber" glitch on a right-facing climber who is in the midst of climbing a wall. For some reason, this does not work for left-facing climbers. This is why it is possible to save 100% on "Quick as you can", but not on "Can't get there from here".
- This one is hard to describe, but you can use the "resetting a bomber" glitch on a lemming entering a teleport. If you do this, the lemming won't enter the teleport, and he will start walking in a strange manner. He still behaves like a regular walker, though. If he returns to the teleport later, he will enter and return to normal.
Post by: Clam on December 17, 2011, 09:31:49 AM
- You can break steel by digging diagonally upwards through normal ground placed in front of the steel. The digger takes one swing too many, taking out a chunk of steel. There has to be enough terrain above the lemming before it takes this extra swing, otherwise it will just stop (so you can't just place a couple of bricks in front of steel to make the digger go through).
- With a specific setup, it is possible for a lemming to survive a splat fall. The lemming has to be standing on disappearing ground, and unable to move left or right, with a long fall immediately below. If you assign the walker skill just as the last layer of ground disappears, the lemming will fall down, splat, respawn (!) and then turn around. After doing this, the lemming enters a glitched state where falling down even the tiniest step causes it to splat. You can observe this glitch on Egypt level 30.
- Another way of bypassing the splat height is by falling into water with the swim tool, though IIRC there isn't an original level where you can do this. This also leaves the lemming susceptible to splatting from a short fall (if the lemming fell from above splat height), but not down a walkable step like the above.
- If you stop a shimmier (using the walker skill) and it falls off the bottom of the screen, it will appear to splat instead of just disappearing off the screen.
Post by: Minim on December 17, 2011, 06:09:26 PM
- resetting a bomber: after a bomber finishes the countdown but before he actually explodes, you can assign a non-bomber, non-permanent skill, and this will "reset" him so he doesn't explode.
Ah yes, I remember this trick.
The trick has been mentioned as an alternative solution to the level "My finest moment" (Can be seen somewhere in the lemmings compendium, I couldn't manage to get a direct link, so I hope you all can find it.).
Post by: ccexplore on December 22, 2011, 09:19:31 AM
- no splat on water: you can argue this is not a glitch, but water lemmings can land on water from any height without splatting
- miner glitches: remarkably the infamous miner glitch from original Lemmings lives on in this game too. I've attached screenshots for 3 variations:
- basic miner glitch: this is just like how it works with original Lemmings. In Revolution, the moment where the effective position is on air starts at the moment the breakthrough stroke begins to take out terrain. It takes 3 frames of terrain removal to actually break through. Assign a blocker at 1st or 2nd frame, and the miner falls through without breaking through. The miner-glitch.png screenshot should make this clear. Works facing left or right. You can also substitute blocker with oh-no or digger for same effect.
- miner+builder glitch: this one doesn't have a clear analog in original lemmings. At the very frame when the miner stroke just breaks through (you can't be late, or you won't be able to assign skills anymore until he finishes falling), assign builder to the miner, and the first build brick will leave a gap as shown in the miner-glitch-2.png screenshot. This only works facing right; facing left, the build brick is positioned differently and does not leave a gap.
- auto-stop-mining glitch: this one is sorta like a similar behavior you can see in original Lemmings, but not exactly the same. As seen in the miner-glitch-3.png screenshot, the miner stops mining by itself, but does not fall through either. This seems to only work facing left. The miner continues mining if facing right, mining from the symmetric left side of the terrain in question.
- not sure to consider it glitch or not, but when building left, during the "shrugging" phase after running out of build bricks, you can't immediately assign him skills until he starts walking. Whereas building right you can assign as soon as the "shrugging" phase starts.
Post by: ccexplore on December 23, 2011, 09:14:40 AM
- This is just like in original Lemmings, and is completely explained by screenshot climber-fall-offset.png: when a climber encounters a ceiling and falls down, it comes away from the wall by one grid space, instead of falling down right next to the wall. Works facing left or right.
- Also like in original Lemmings, see climber-to-walker-on-air.png: if the terrain that the climber is on is removed, it hoists immediately and converts to a walker in mid-air for one frame. But here's one crucial difference in Revolution: unfortunately, in general [ignoring the miner glitches which somehow isn't quite affected in this manner] you cannot assign most skills to lemmings standing on mid-air (or even standing on non-terrain things like water for non-water lemmings). It seems the game basically does this extra check as a criteria of whether a skill assignment is allowed or not, and unless you're assigning climber, floater or bomber, you're out of luck. So while the glitch "works" in a sense, it's not likely to be very useful.
- But I guess the disappointment of the previous glitch is made up for by the following curveball: so guess what happens to climber stuck in terrain?
Well first of all, this is tricky to even set up due a number of differences, includinginability to select any lemmings buried in terrain, andthe build brick positioned offset of the lemming's position (so for example, the classic sliding-glitch setup in original Lemmings will instead leave a single-gridspace gap where the lemming is standing when he's building).
Still, with a little work, it is possible to achieve a setup where a climber gets stuck in terrain, such as in level 7-3 ("how do we get up there!"). The result turns out to be quite unexpected, and I wish I could capture a movie of it, but I didn't try since I can only run the game well on XP on an old laptop, and it would probably be too taxing to run a screen-capturing movie program during the game. So the climber-passthroughwall.zip set of screenshots to attempt to depict this. You can use the screenshots as a guide to try it out yourself.
But yes, the gist of it is, the stuck climber manages to pass through the wall horizontally! The screenshot was a little late in capturing when the stuck lemming first emerges on the other side of the wall, but he actually starts appearing almost off the very top of the wall there. So I have to conclude the lemming must have moved diagonally up and right while stuck inside the wall.Unfortunately I can only guess since as mentioned earlier, the game cannot even let you highlight any lemming that's stuck inside terrain, so the lemming is literally invisible to me between the time it's stuck and the time it finally emerges.I don't know yet either whether this only works facing right, or may work in both directions.[edit: see next post]
Post by: ccexplore on December 23, 2011, 04:31:15 PM
inability to select any lemmings buried in terrain
I was mistaken on that point. Maybe the first time I tested it on some earlier level the lemming was too close to the top or something. Anyway, as long as you selected a skill type that can be assigned to the lemming (floater and bomber are good options), you can still highlight a lemming buried in terrain, and assign skills to it.
So, I was able to track the movement of a stuck climber now. It basically moves upwards just like in original Lemmings, but with the additional rightward drift. I guess there's an asymmetry when facing left and facing right that ends up moving the stuck climber lemming steadily rightward. (
[edit: I have identified the asymmetry that allows the stuck climber to gradually drift rightward. When the stuck lemming "falls", "lands" and turns left, he immediately starts climbing again. But when he "falls" "lands" and turns right, he can walk forward for one grid-cell before starting again to climbing. This extra bit of walking allowed only when facing right, results in the gradual rightward drift.]
[edit2: note that when a stuck climber falls and turns left, I mean it when I say he immediately starts climbing. It appears the transition is directly from faller to climber, making it impossible (in all my tries so far) to assign skils to a stuck climber facing left. For a stuck climber facing right, you can assign him skills during his "extra walking" phase.]
Post by: ccexplore on December 25, 2011, 01:13:14 AM
From now on I'll keep the OP up-to-date on the latest Revolution discoveries. I'll still make new posts down here so I can attach more screenshots.First, I've done more testing with blockers and have finally really understand how they work. The "blocker stacking" trick merely scratches the surface. I'll explain in more details in OP, but the gist of it is below:
- In original lemmings, the blocker field has 3 parts: a "force-left" field at the column roughly corresponding to the left arm, a "center" field corresponding to the lemming's body, and a "force-right" field corresponding to the right arm. In Revolution, the blocker field just has a single center part corresponding to the body. More precisely, at the column of grid-cells where the blocker is standing, the 4 grid cells going from lemming's head to lemming's feet will be the blocker fields. There is no "force-left" or "force-right", the field simply causes walkers to turn around.
- Grid-cells in Revolution can have multiple statuses (blocker, steel, etc.), so I don't think you'll find any "steel canceling" or "object canceling" glitches in that game, sorry. (Though to be fair, I obviously haven't tested exhaustively.)
- Revolution allows you to overlap blockers, so you can have cases like 2 blockers occupying the same grid position so their fields fully overlap, and then when you free only one of the two, you've cleared all the blocker fields at the given position, so the other blocker no longer actually blocks anyone. See screenshot 2-overlapping-blockers-freeing-1.png.
- Blocker fields act rather like regular terrain. As you've seen with blocker-stacking, lemmings can land and walk on them. Turns out you can even climb on it, with a suitable setup (climb-a-blocker.png). It is impervious to bashing, mining and explosions however (think steel, sort of), although diggers can take it out (dig-away-blocker-field.png).
- Walkers and miners appear to be the only skills that can be turned around by a blocker field.
Post by: ccexplore on December 25, 2011, 01:31:34 AM
- Unlike original Lemmings, in Revolution, lemmings falling directly onto exit trigger can exit, even if the exit trigger is in mid-air with no terrain to actually land on.
- When a hoister "oh-no" (explosion countdown reaches 0), he ends up one grid-cell away from the wall, and therefore will fall back down. See screenshot hoister-ohno-fall.png. Works facing left or right.
- Only walkers are affected by an anti-gravity device; lemmings performing most other actions (even things like "oh-no") are unaffected. The easiest application is to pass through an antigrav by air-bashing.
- When a lemming is in the middle of jumping into the exit balloon, you can abort the jump by making the lemming "oh-no", or simply assign skills to it. If it is done too early during the jump, the lemming just ends up re-triggering exiting again. However, once its jumping has moved the lemming sufficiently farther away from the cylinder's axis than the normal distance, this will apparently mess up the object collision detection, and the lemming will no longer re-trigger the exit after the jump is aborted.
In this state, the lemming will react to terrain normally and carry out most skill actions normally, but:- The lemming won't trigger any objects! (eg. this and other exits, water, switches, etc.).
- The lemming is stuck with the special 3D orientation of the exit-jumping (ie. basically 90 degrees off from normal orientation, ie. facing directly into or away from camera), as well as the abnormally farther distance-from-axis. In other words, it moves funny.
See screenshot aborted-exit-jump.png for examples of the above effects.
To revert the lemming back into normal state, assign it blocker. A blocker will gradually move itself back towards the cylinder's axis (this is a normal side effect of blockers) until the distance to axis is back to normal. Free the blocker and it's back to regular behavior.
- During a lemming's jump into the exit balloon, its vertical position is in fact continually updated according to where it is at the jump. In particular, at the final parts of the jump when it is dropping into the balloon basket, his vertical position will lie below floor level of where the exit trigger is. Together with the "aborted exit jump" glitch above, you can take advantage of the vertical positioning as in these examples:
- If the lemming goes "oh-no" at this point, and the floor is thin enough so the lemming, being below the exit trigger, is now in mid-air, he'll fall. See screenshot ohno-fallthru-exit.png. (Note: this is done on level "Lems at Loggerheads" [4-6], and there the timing of the nuke needs to be frame-precise.)
- You can start digging or bashing from the below-exit position, if the skill assignment is permitted (ie. if there is terrain below the lemming's feet, as required in order to assign many of the skills). See screenshot dig-below-exit.png (yellow outlines added to make the digging tunnel easier to see).
Post by: ccexplore on December 26, 2011, 07:28:25 AM
:- This only happened to me twice so far, and I don't know the exact circumstances for this to happen, but it seems that sometimes when you scroll around the level, you may cause a lemming to somehow pass through a blocker. I think for this to happen, the level can't be paused when you are scrolling, but I'm not sure.
- left builder block to walk: assigning blocker to a left-facing builder will cause it to walk instead of block. You don't even need any special timing to do this. Doesn't work with right-facing builder.
- (glitch arguable): Triggered objects don't care whether the lemming is upside-down (ie. from an antigravity device) or not, so it's possible to achieve funny/unexpected things with upside-down lemmings like jumping into an exit balloon while upside-down, drowning in (normal) water upside-down (with the corpse floating away from the water, as per the lemming's inverted gravity), etc. See screenshot upsidedown-lem-triggering-objects.png.
- (glitch arguable): The water surface acts as a ceiling for an upside-down lemming building "up" against it.
- revived* drowner: you can use the "reset a bomber" glitch on a drowning lemming. Normally this isn't very useful since being in water, you can't even assign any useful skills, and even if you time it just right so that the lemming is at the very bottom (making skill assignments possible) when it "oh-no", there just isn't much you can do down there that doesn't end up re-drowning the lemming eventually.
However, there is one awesome exception: if you drown an upside-down (ie. antigravity) lemming in normal water, it will fall up and away from the water surface (since after all, up is down for antigravity). See upsidedown-lem-triggering-objects.png screenshot (bottom-right) if still unclear. Hence if you can arrange for it to "descend" onto dry land during its drowning, and have it "oh-no" in mid-descend, he's ready to be reset once on dry land for further usage.
The "revived* drowner" will have the following odd behavior:- For the skills of bashing, mining, building, and digging, the lemming will only carry out one full cycle of animation (ie. one stroke, one build brick, etc.), and then the lemming just stops and freezes. The "frozen" lemming is still considered in the middle of carrying out the skill (so for example, if it is building when it freezes, you can't just assign another builder, you have to assign some other skill first, and then you can assign a builder to force it to build another brick).
- Fortunately it can walk, climb, fall and float without "freezing". Of course, getting it to start walking can be tricky, as you start the lemming off via reset-a-bomber (so it has to start off performing some sort of skill). If the lemming faces left, using the "left builder block to walk" glitch is probably the most efficient way to revert it to walking. Otherwise, I think if you can arrange for it to revert to walking or falling as the natural result of carrying out a skill for only one cycle, that'll probably work too.
- The walking animation looks funny. Basically the lemming often stops animating as it walks, so it kinda just slides around.
- The lemming retains the translucency of drowning lemmings at all times.
- The lemming can still trigger all objects in this state, including the exit, blockers, and the antigravity pad.
- If the lemming is upside-down and tries to fall off the top boundary of the level, it will instead get stuck there without dying. You can't do much with it though, since it's still considered in the middle of falling/floating, leaving you with very few useful skill assignment choices. You can kill it with a bomber or nuke if needed. This glitch doesn't work with the bottom boundary as the lemming, even in its weird state, will go splat off the bottom boundary.
- The entrance "box" object is a sort of special terrain, with the following behavior:
- A walker can walk on/inside it, but a faller or floater will fall through it.
- To confuse matters further, a falling/floating "oh-no"er can land on/inside entrance material, though this is not as useful as it sounds (see below on skill assignment).
- It doesn't act as a wall for walkers though. For example, if you build to mid-height of the box to reach the box, walkers won't turn around at the sides of the box, or try to step up or climb up the sides. Instead you will just walk through the sides and through the entire length of the box at mid-height. See entrance-interactions.png screenshot if still unclear.
- And yet, a builder will react to the entrance box like it is a wall or ceiling.
- It is indestructible (I tested all removal actions including basher, miner, digger and exploder). Actually, an exploder can affect the graphics of the entrance (again see entrance-interactions.png), but not the lemming-interaction behaviors.
- It is not considered normal land for skill assignment purposes, so basically you can't assign most skills while standing on entrance material. (Note: you can still test the indestructibility claims above by getting as close as you can while still standing on a build brick, while facing the entrance and still be allowed to assign the skill you want to test.)
(Note: the "flaps" of an entrance are not special and basically has no interactions with lemmings AFAIK.)
Post by: Minim on December 27, 2011, 08:04:50 AM
No wonder why some people said it's a good game. I'm just wondering. I had a look at the review of the game at Gamespot and the reviewer said something like:Quote
it shipped with a few sound, video, and input-device bugs that may cause problems for some players who are loading up the game for the first time.
I don't quite understand what is meant by "input-device" bugs. Are they related to any glitch shown here or is this just a different type of problem?
Post by: ccexplore on December 27, 2011, 10:02:15 AM
I'd say the review focused on a different type of problem than what I'm listing in this thread, although there's definitely some overlap. I did note in my list that I have some problems with the music, but they can be tolerated or worked around for the most part. I see video problems in my Win7 machine, but now that I think of it, it may be a difference in video cards rather than different versions of Windows, who knows? "Input device" may be about joysticks? Don't know, mouse handling seems fine to me for the most part. Anyway, some sound and video problems may only come up with specific models of graphics cards and sound cards, or are more prevalent back on Windows 95 and Windows 98, the versions of Windows the game was originally designed for.Quoteit shipped with a few sound, video, and input-device bugs that may cause problems for some players who are loading up the game for the first time.
I don't quite understand what is meant by "input-device" bugs. Are they related to any glitch shown here or is this just a different type of problem?
Given the history of the game's development (link to Lemmings Encyclopedia), I suspect it was indeed a rush job with less testing than usual, by the time they try to get someone to publish this almost-killed game. So it's hardly surprising that on the game mechanics side of things there are many glitchy behaviors. Some are probably just inherited from copying code/algorithms from original Lemmings. Others are due to the vast increase in new object behaviors (water, acid, gravity, teleports, switches, you name it!).
Post by: ccexplore on December 27, 2011, 10:18:34 AM
:- If the timer runs out, it seems the game will determine win/lose based on number of lemmings at the moment the timer hits 0. Even though the game will run on for a few more seconds afterwards, and any additional lemmings that exit afterwards will be included in the post-level screen's count of lemmings saved, the game will still say you fail the level if you hadn't saved enough when timer hits 0. (See screenshot out-of-time.png if still unclear.)
- When a lemming explodes, the game renders a sort of "gut splatter" on the surface of the cylinder, around where the lemming is. This splatter will eventually fade out. But while it is being displayed, it may obscure other graphics that extend far enough into the cylinder surface. For example, it will make a retracted wall look like some of its squares are gone (see screenshot explosion-graphical-artifacts.png). This is purely graphical and does not actually affect whatever objects are there behavior-wise. It may even conceivably be dependent on the graphics hardware.
- Leave it to this game to screw up even the most basic of things, namely the safe-fall distance! Either that, or it decides to go quantum with the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
At a fall distance equal to digging 30 steps down, some lemmings may survive the fall while others go splat at the very same fall (like, literally at the same location)! I'm still not 100% sure of the details, but based on some testing, it feels like the later (in terms of time elapsed) the lemming comes out of the entrance, the more likely it will survive such a fall. But even then it's not like there's an exact cut-off before which all lemmings splat; instead it kinda alternates with no obvious regularity, except for splatting less and less frequently. See the screenshots in safefall-imprecision.zip for some examples. I guess we'll have to disassemble the game to figure out the exact details. I did test that fall distances of 29 steps and 31 steps do behave consistently (ie. all survive for the former, and all splat for the latter). - The "underwater mining" glitch also works with acid lemmings on acid. However, the resulting behavior is rather different, in that unlike water, the acid will actually retain the tunnels created! Moreover, lemmings react to acid material a bit differently from regular terrain. The overall behaviors are complex enough that, due to my limited testing so far, I will not attempt to (likely incorrectly) summarize for now. I've included a screenshot (acid-tunnel.png) to give you a taste for now, and will note that miner acid tunnels seem to be somewhat more special than pits and tunnels from other terrain-removal skills.
Post by: mobius on December 29, 2011, 04:03:29 AM
I only remember experiencing this a few times and possible only in one level; "Something fishy" but I'm not sure.
When a lemming is bashing through an area and a builder starts to build through the area that was bashed through his steps will start to disappear slowly behind him. Actually they disappear in a way that looks like an invisible lemming is bashing through them. It's been a long time so I'm not sure about the details but I think this doesn't happen if the basher is finished and no longer bashing. But when this happened to me the basher was very far away from the builder. I remember being shocked and trying the level again and it happened every time
Post by: mobius on December 30, 2011, 04:04:22 AM
if anybody ever finds solutions to these problems please post it somewhere. I can't get any sound either and some of the animation is kinda off. I just can't play the game this way. I tried running it in compatibility mode and also tried moving this file "ir42-something" in windows folder that it mentioned on install but nothing had any effect whatsoever.
- On Win7 I can't even get music to play at all no matter what.
- On Win7, the first time you're on the main menu right after starting the game, no text is displayed on the menu buttons. This corrects itself after you started playing a level and then go back to the main menu. Does not repro on XP.
- At the post-level screen where it shows you how many you need and how many you saved, the text is too dark, it's almost unreadable.
anyway I thought of a few more possible glitches I remember from when I played long ago.
-Once I had a climber get stuck for no apparent reason that I could see. I cant remember what level it was but it was climbing up a straight wall and when it reached the top instead of falling it stopped but appeared to keep climbing but he wasn't getting anywhere. I couldn't assign it any skill not even bomber. it stayed there "climbing in place" for the rest of the duration.
-This one is bizarre but more than once I've had lemmings just vanish into thin air. Levels I remember certainly are "Reduce and Simmer" and "Don't let them out".
In the latter I think it happened at a certain spot where a lemming was bashing near the exit balloon and it just disappeared with no splat sound or graphic or anything. I couldn't investigate it because every lemming that got near that particular spot vanished. I can't remember if the ticker reported a change in the number of lemmings.
Then In "Reduce and Simmer" I had a climbing lemming reach a wall and it began to climb but stopped halfway up and appeared to "mount" the wall when it wasn't at the top then go into the terrain and vanish. It was always at a particular spot so maybe these are glitches with the levels and not in the game in general.
-I never experience the reset a bomber glitch with the teleporter. But I have experienced a situation where when an exploding lemming is right in the vicinity of the teleporter (in other words if the teleporter "beam" appears like hes going to teleport) but he instead successfully explodes the teleporter beam stays there forever and the teleporter becomes unusable /in effect breaking the teleporter. Lemmings just pass through it after that. I think the exit opposing teleporter is effected also.
I should add; I think that the bomb countdown continues while the lemming is passing through the teleporter so they can in effect explode while not visible.
-Some telelporters appear to take longer to teleport than others. I remember on some levels the teleport being instantaneous and other waiting a long time for the lemmings to come out the other side
-this might not be a glitch but if a "sped-up" lemming enters another speed up pad it reverts to normal speed but retains the speedy blur behind him
Post by: ccexplore on December 30, 2011, 03:40:21 PM
-I never experience the reset a bomber glitch with the teleporter. But I have experienced a situation where when an exploding lemming is right in the vicinity of the teleporter (in other words if the teleporter "beam" appears like hes going to teleport) but he instead successfully explodes the teleporter beam stays there forever and the teleporter becomes unusable /in effect breaking the teleporter. Lemmings just pass through it after that. I think the exit opposing teleporter is effected also.
I should add; I think that the bomb countdown continues while the lemming is passing through the teleporter so they can in effect explode while not visible.
I can confirm the beam staying lit (this happens whether you let it explode or reset it by skill assignment), and explosion while the lemming is not visible. I'm less sure about "breaking the teleporter" though from my testing. I did test on 8-2 ("Locked In") and find that lowering the floor all around the teleporter by even just the minimum amount that you can take out using any skill, seems sufficient for a lemming to bypass being detected by the teleporter, so it's possible that might have been what you experienced? On the other hand, I don't think a single explosion crater would be wide enough to affect the entire length of area (both front and back!) that a teleporter can suck lemmings from, plus this effect won't affect the exit teleporter either.
As an aside, the "lower the floor a tiny bit to bypass an object" trick can work on some other objects as well. For example, if a lever switch is not resting on steel, you can simply dig down once and bash, that will lower the floor around the lever enough for you and other lemmings to walk past the lever without changing it. Actually, even the traps in original Lemmings work somewhat similarly.
Anyway, I'm still relatively early in the game, I'll keep an eye out as I come into more levels with teleporters.
Post by: ccexplore on December 30, 2011, 06:51:05 PM
-Some telelporters appear to take longer to teleport than others. I remember on some levels the teleport being instantaneous and other waiting a long time for the lemmings to come out the other side
I suspect the teleporter speed may just be something the level designer can adjust in each level, or possibly even for each teleport. I just played level 8-5 ("Water way to go.") and not only are the teleporters there faster than the ones I've encountered in earlier levels, but it's also the first time I hear a sound effect for the teleporter!
Post by: ccexplore on December 30, 2011, 07:29:37 PM
What this means for example, is that if you set a blocker at the exiting point of the exiting teleport, you can trap lemmings within the detection area of the exiting teleport, and they won't be teleported back (simply walk through the teleporter with no effect) until they can leave and re-enter the detection area. See attached screenshot if unclear.
This is also probably the basis for walking thorugh the teleporter in the "reset bomber" case. When the lemming goes "oh no", that aborted the teleporting. But the lemming hasn't left the detection area of the teleporter yet, so he won't re-trigger the teleporter, instead simply walking or moving past it. If he wants to enter the teleporter again, he must have moved enough to leave and re-enter the teleporter's detection area.
Post by: mobius on December 31, 2011, 07:28:43 PM
anyway here's a few more:
-bashers: a left facing basher can get a "headstart" on his bashing by bashing close to the wall he will take away a larger than usual chunk on the first bash. (it looks like a total of 3 bashes in one bash). Right facing bashers can never do this.
-this glitch doesn't effect gameplay as far as I know its only graphical: if two retractable walls are next to each other where one is open and the other is closed; the one will appear to pull the other out of proportion. (like rubber or something) But Lemmings will fall right through the warped door (if it is open). In other words they seem to ignore the glitch.
-I have seen but never actually experienced the fall height glitch. When I played Tanks a lot I never had a problem! and my game wasn't patched. Is it possible they fixed the glitch in later releases of the game? Because i do think i got the game a few years after it came out.
Post by: ccexplore on January 01, 2012, 12:31:44 AM
-I have seen but never actually experienced the fall height glitch. When I played Tanks a lot I never had a problem! and my game wasn't patched. Is it possible they fixed the glitch in later releases of the game? Because i do think i got the game a few years after it came out.
I don't think I've reached "Tanks a lot" yet, I'm still on column 8 (counting from left to right starting at 1). The fall height glitch only happens with a specific height, correspoding to digging down exactly 30 times. I tested this on two different computers, one running XP and other running Win7, with same results, so at least it's not machine specific. The level I first tested this on was "build 'em up then bring 'em down", where I did the digging right at the edge of the first drop.
About patched versions: it's interesting you mention it. I actually got two copies of Revolution from two different publishers, one from GlobalStar (GS) and another from Dice Computer Games. The GS one did come with a patch, but it has to be manually applied and isn't installed by default. The other one doesn't have a patch. I believe I ran a file comparison and without the patch, both publishers have identical files, so I think the unpatched version is most likely the "original". I have been running the unpatched version so far.
The patch simply updates "Lemmings Revolution.exe" and "patch.box". If you are using the patch version, the files have a timestamp ("date modified") of 6/26/2000. The unpatched version has 4/14/2000. Most of the glitches listed aren't exactly game-breaking, so I don't really expect a lot of differences between the patch and unpatch versions, but it's certainly worth testing. I should note that the patched version didn't help with getting the game to work well in Win7, unfortunately.
Post by: ccexplore on January 02, 2012, 03:47:31 AM
I have been running the unpatched version so far.
It looks like I remembered wrong. I just happened to (re)check the timestamps of the files on the XP machine today, and apparently I have been playing with the patched version with the 6/26/2000 timestamp.
I did pick a few glitches to test between the patched and unpatched versions today. The fall height glitch repros on "build 'em up..." in both versions, and teleporting behaviors appear the same so far in limited testing. Yet there are definite subtle differences. For example, when testing stuck climbers, at least on one level, I found that on the unpatched version, you don't seem to gain any height that way, only getting the rightward drift. (Note: they can still climb through platforms that are sufficiently thin, basically thin enough that they won't hit their head, fall and turn.) Whereas on the patched version, you gain both height as well as the rightward drift. Given how many glitches are listed so far, it does look like I'll need to go through them all at some point on the unpatched version and see what differences I'll encounter. I think most glitches will remain the same but there might be subtle differences here and there.
Fortunately all my recent "maximum %" records for Revolution so far remains unaffected by patched vs. unpatched. If I have any new solutions for that challenge thread, I will make sure to test in both patched and unpatched versions to see if there are any differences. For consistency I'll stick with using the patched version for now, until I finish the game.
Post by: LemSteven on January 04, 2012, 01:36:08 AM
Anyway, to complicate matters further, my CD-ROM shows the "date modified" as 7/14/2000, which is completely different from both the versions mentioned by ccexplore.
Post by: mobius on January 04, 2012, 04:07:36 AM
The patch simply updates "Lemmings Revolution.exe" and "patch.box". If you are using the patch version, the files have a timestamp ("date modified") of 6/26/2000. The unpatched version has 4/14/2000. Most of the glitches listed aren't exactly game-breaking, so I don't really expect a lot of differences between the patch and unpatch versions, but it's certainly worth testing. I should note that the patched version didn't help with getting the game to work well in Win7, unfortunately.
I lied
. My game is patched. It's funny tho because mine says 4/4/2000 . The patch box has the same date.on another possibly relevant note, this game uses box files which seem to be rare, perhaps that has something to do with it having difficulty working properly on different systems.
maybe the game uses other unusual file types.anyway, now that I probe my memory, I seem to remember an instance on another level (not Tanksalot) that the glitch happened
It was this level I think... Lemmings Revolution Level 12-11 OMG
^this person also plays the glitched version of Tanks a lot. They dont say anywhere though if they played this level before or after the patch. (they applied their own patch somehow (this level comes after Tanks a lot)).
I dont know if anyone's aware but XP doesnt actually play the game 100% properly either. Originally (on Windows 2000 or 98) all the letters on the main menu were red, the letters in the level were white. Some of the sprites are also changed. The speed at which the entrance box release rate changes increased drastically.
Post by: ccexplore on January 04, 2012, 04:52:54 AM
I lied
Given all these different timestamps I'm hearing, maybe file sizes are a better determination of which version is which? (Well something like CRC is best for checking this, but maybe another time.)
On my CD, patch.box has size 5,233,355 bytes for the unpatched version, and 8,533,284 for the patched version. Unfortunately filesizes are the same for "Lemmings Revolution.exe" so we'll probably need CRC with that one for comparing versions.
Post by: LemSteven on January 04, 2012, 11:00:10 PM
Post by: mobius on January 05, 2012, 01:12:48 AM
in any case mine is: 5,233,355. what you say is "un-patched". But I swear I never had a problem. But I am playing the game again so I'll wait and see when I get to these levels.
for another glitch: The steel in "The Abyss" is bomb-able. try nuking the level. You dont have any bashers, miners or diggers so you cant test it that way. (maybe that's why, they just never bothered to code the steel correctly. But then why make it steel in the first place?
)-it seems that when u assign a lemming basher, they will shift slightly to the left. (no matter what direction they're facing). I didnt test it out much yet. This explains the "headstart" glitch (or whatever u want to call it) and possibly being able to "bash" through steel. No, scratch that cause you can get through steel in either direction. anyway this could be useful I suppose.
Post by: ccexplore on January 05, 2012, 09:37:40 PM
wait, how can u have a patch box if it's an "un-patched" version? Are you saying they all contain this file "patch.box" even before the patch?
When I said "patched"/"unpatched" it's really relative to my game CD. On my game CD, just running setup from the CD installs the 5MB version of files, which also matches the ones on the CD itself. In a separate directory (folder) on the CD is a patch with the 8MB version of files (and a short document explaining what to do to install the patch), which you have to manually install (pretty much you extract/copy the files over the original ones installed from the CD).
So I'm calling the 5MB version "unpatched" and the 8MB version "patched", and yes, both versions contain patch.box. I don't know if there's yet some 3rd version out there that doesn't have patch.
=======================
this game uses box files which seem to be rare
Just wondering, have you seen other games that use box files?
Post by: mobius on January 05, 2012, 11:39:33 PM
I have not. (Before posting that^ I looked ".box" up on a file extension info site and didn't find much of insight. However just now I looked it up again on a different sight and found something which may be very interesting.this game uses box files which seem to be rare
Just wondering, have you seen other games that use box files?
What I did find was a mention of our game and link http://www.elberethzone.net/en/dup-supportedgames.html. Which is some person's site who makes a program that supposedly lets you open and hack game files. I'm probably leaping to conclusions but this may just allow you to modify the game, even make an editor! (I would myself but my knowledge of programming is extremely limited) Anyway I'm going to test this program out later.
and to get back on topic more glitches;
-you kinda of touched on this when u explained blockers I just I thought I's give a little more detail.
as to freeing a blocker: if you dig 3 digs down (4 digs is the best way btw) and bash across the blocker will stop the basher. But you can still bash your way through by "forcing the lemming" (it takes a few bashers) you'll get through but the basher will leave a tiny space of terrain where the blocker stands (thus not freeing the blocker.
-the "disappearing steps" thing I posted about;
this only happens when you attempt to build in an area where terrain once was (in which a basher is still currently bashing through). So it could be handy for having one lemming build and be alone (the others will fall through the steps that "vanish". I don't think this happens at all with miners or diggers
Post by: ccexplore on January 06, 2012, 01:08:04 AM
(Before posting that^ I looked ".box" up on a file extension info site and didn't find much of insight. However just now I looked it up again on a different sight and found something which may be very interesting.Cool.
What I did find was a mention of our game and link http://www.elberethzone.net/en/dup-supportedgames.html. Which is some person's site who makes a program that supposedly lets you open and hack game files. I'm probably leaping to conclusions but this may just allow you to modify the game, even make an editor! (I would myself but my knowledge of programming is extremely limited) Anyway I'm going to test this program out later.
Let me know if it works for you. I'll try myself later this week. It'll certainly be helpful I think, even if it's just a pretty small step towards a goal of game modification.
Post by: mobius on January 08, 2012, 12:06:43 AM
(Before posting that^ I looked ".box" up on a file extension info site and didn't find much of insight. However just now I looked it up again on a different sight and found something which may be very interesting.Cool.
What I did find was a mention of our game and link http://www.elberethzone.net/en/dup-supportedgames.html. Which is some person's site who makes a program that supposedly lets you open and hack game files. I'm probably leaping to conclusions but this may just allow you to modify the game, even make an editor! (I would myself but my knowledge of programming is extremely limited) Anyway I'm going to test this program out later.
It's pretty interesting. I didnt do much with it yet but I was able to extract some of the sound files, including the music! (i always loved the music to this game). I also discovered there are a lot of bizzare sound files in there that don't appear in the actual game, like sounds from original lemmings, and the voice of some guy singing a reggae like song. ...seriously.
Post by: ccexplore on January 08, 2012, 03:14:05 AM
There's a bug in the program so not all files are correctly extracted, and I suspect in some cases the file contents will get mixed up with one another. However I was able to clearly see the format of the BOX files. It's pretty simple (simple enough that had I bother to look at it with a hex editor, I could probably figure it all out just like that), and I'll write a more accurate extraction program over the next few days, and document the format somewhere on the forum for posterity.
patch.box is basically just a set of replacement files to be used over the version of files in lemmings.box.
The real challenge would be to crack the format of the LVL level files, that might take a while.
Post by: mobius on January 08, 2012, 04:31:48 AM
anyway, something new happened today when playing Revolution, in "Under and Up". This never happened to me before on this level and it happened on the first time now so this might be due to windos7. I tried to record of video of it happening but Camstudio went ape and when I tried to do it again it didn't happen
.What happened was after the time door closed i started digging with the 'worker lemming and while he was under the crab all these lemmings starting coming in there. I looked and saw that a bunch were stuck inside the door.
. Somehow they were going through the closed door (with no action on my part that I could see at the time). No idea what's going on here but in that pic it shows a build brick I used to get some unstuck. and where the cursor is is where it happened (the second was taken in another go of the level in which i failed to reproduce it)[if u look in the first u can see all the lemmings getting away on the right that shouldn't be there]
(also you can see the after effects of the 'basher/builder glitch right there, which incidentally really comes in handy on this level)
Post by: ccexplore on January 08, 2012, 12:16:01 PM
Incidentally, earlier in the week I had repro'd the basher/builder glitch you mentioned (I saw it in "Bridges"). Actually I think it's the exact same thing LemSteven was reporting, just that because his description was too brief, I didn't realize he might be talking about the same glitch as you were.
The list of glitches on the original post is probably a little out of date at this point, I'll try to find some time to update it with all the latest reports on the thread.
Post by: LemSteven on January 08, 2012, 05:46:50 PM
Incidentally, earlier in the week I had repro'd the basher/builder glitch you mentioned (I saw it in "Bridges"). Actually I think it's the exact same thing LemSteven was reporting, just that because his description was too brief, I didn't realize he might be talking about the same glitch as you were.
Yes, that's the same glitch I was trying to report. I guess I wasn't specific enough.
Post by: mobius on January 08, 2012, 10:11:54 PM
I thought you just meant the way bashers sometimes take out a little stuff all around them (sometimes behind and above). its so odd though, I mean the way it works makes me think the 'bashing operation' is a lot more complicated then just deleting the material that was there.
I'll add another thing mentioned at the thread for saving 100% on 'One way ticket', but not mentioned here, about bashers; when a lemming is assigned basher and there is no terrain directly ahead of him, they will bash a little out from above them, the lemming will bash a little but then keep walking if there's still no terrain ahead of them. But if there is terrain directly ahead of them when you assign basher they won't do this.
-You can heighten a basher's tunnel this way.
-combined with building, you can 'bash up' through terrain (especially thin ceilings)
-I'm gonna test this but I don't think they will bash above when finishing bashing like normal.
Post by: mobius on January 16, 2012, 01:46:39 AM
here's a picture:
Post by: LemSteven on January 16, 2012, 02:38:46 AM
Post by: mobius on January 16, 2012, 04:44:15 PM
So far I've only seen it happen on 'Reduce and Simmer'
When a lemming walks over to this area (see picture below) they will stop whatever they are doing, ei. walking or performing a skill, flop strangely like a fish and then vanish and die (the counter actually decreases).
Post by: ccexplore on January 16, 2012, 07:38:51 PM
flop strangely like a fish and then vanish and die (the counter actually decreases).
A little hard to tell since it's not shown in the screenshot, but your description seems to match a drowning lemming. Perhaps the level data has some errors causing that area to be treated as water?
Post by: mobius on January 17, 2012, 01:53:31 AM
flop strangely like a fish and then vanish and die (the counter actually decreases).
A little hard to tell since it's not shown in the screenshot, but your description seems to match a drowning lemming. Perhaps the level data has some errors causing that area to be treated as water?
I dont think so because drowning lemmings kind of slump forward then move downward (through the water). With this the lemmings just remains still and flop back and forth. It's really weird I've never seen it in any other place. However it could be what you said except for some reason they remains still and don't fall downward like they would through water.
-I've discovered an interesting trick u can do with the miner glitch. If you place two blockers close together and have a lemming in the middle mine, he will keep getting turned around (while mining) but if he is positioned correctly he will leave a thin space of material in the middle.
in the picture u can see two separate holes made with one miner. The blocker on the right was free'd before I took the picture
Post by: mobius on April 25, 2012, 09:05:27 PM
anyway, now that I probe my memory, I seem to remember an instance on another level (not Tanksalot) that the glitch (fall height glitch) happened
Since I've been playing this game again lately, I recently discovered I was right about that! ^^
In 12-8 "Just you wait!" If lemmings walk off the platform directly left of the entrance the fall height from there is the infamous 50/50 chance of death or life.
(btw, just as a reminder, I DO have the patched version )As a side note that's not really that important; we don't really know if it's 50/50 chance I could play this level a lot and take notes and calculations but I dont think I have time for that
----------
<back to other glitches I've been researching recently>
there may be some kind of glitch that happens with one way walls. But it needs more investigating.
-In 'Now You're Stalking' when I dug near the exit in the middle of two oow climbed up the one way wall terrain he stopped in the middle and walked into and through the terrain then climbed again inside it and got out on top and went on as normal.
-In When Two tribes go to war(I posted this above) a lemming strangley fell through solid steel (near a one-way wall)
-there were two other instances where something similar happened which I can't remember now but I think they all happened near one-way-walls.
========
I haven't been having much luck with that^ so I decided to look into diggers (since I noticed you don't have anything for them yet.
-If you dig at the very edge of a wall where the wall is made of steel or a
You can also test this on "Feeling Gravity's Pull. The middle entrance above the balloon; if a lemming digs close enough to the wall it will look like nothing got removed but the lemmings will fall through (because it is also a very thin terrain).
I'll continuing investigating it, to get a better accuracy
*need to test
========
the downward one way wall in "Wondering Free" does absolutely nothing. You can dig mine and bash through it in any direction. However the downward one way walls in "Mission Impossible" DO prevent you from bashing or mining through them
Post by: mobius on May 01, 2012, 12:58:04 AM
Quote
(ccexplore) Sometimes when you scroll around the level, you may cause a lemming to somehow pass through a blocker. Exact circumstances still unclear (only happened twice to me so far). I think for this to happen, the level can't be paused when you are scrolling, but I'm not sure. I've also encountered one time where this happens merely when I fast-forwarded the game for a bit, without any scrolling.
I've now experienced this (three times actually). I believe what I posted a while ago that happened to me on "Under and Up" was this as well. But today I experienced it again, in 'My Finest moment'. (see attachment) I was digging down and the lemming were stuck in a tunnel and I scrolled to the left and all of a sudden I noticed one lemming moving where it shouldn't, and as you can see it became stuck in the terrain. What is truly bizarre is how did he get around the giant gap in the terrain? Apparently there moving in a way completely different from normal. Also [it may] have something to do with your cursor. Because I think my cursor was over the lemming when it happened and I was scrolling while my cursor was highlighting the lemming. Maybe this is what triggers it.
It also happened to me on 'turn on, tune in, switch on. where lemming went past a blocker (I don't think my cursor was over it that time though
)-Time Doors-
On "Lock In" If two lemmings are squished together and pass the time door it can go from 10 or 9 directly to 0. I have to investigate more.
-(see attachment) Some of the steel in "The Abyss" and It's repeated level "Let's get those finger's moving" does not behave like steel. The steel on the left (from the entrance) and the steel near the exit on "Let's Get..." is normal. However the steel on all the lower platforms behaves just like regular terrain and can be mined through and blown through. This is the only level I've encountered this so far.
((the level in the picture is actually NOT 'the abyss' it's "Let's get those finger's moving"))
pretty sure this is a level specific glitch, as it happens nowhere else that I've encountered yet.
I've done some more with mining under water. I wasn't sure if you already knew this but by building on top of water you can have a digger dig on the steps so that he continues digging into the water! Then, underwater he can even bash and build.
Post by: ccexplore on May 01, 2012, 03:15:38 AM
What is truly bizarre is how did he get around the giant gap in the terrain? Apparently there moving in a way completely different from normal.
Hmm, I guess it's possible. I didn't happen to see a lemming skipping across a giant gap in the terrain myself since in all cases where I had it happen, it was simply a crowd blocked off with a blocker, and then at some point a lemming got past the blocker anyway. The theory that the lemming instantaneously changed its position from point A to point B would in fact explain both "passing" (really "skipping", if it's such a change in position) the blocker and skipping across a giant gap.
Quote
I've done some more with mining under water. I wasn't sure if you already knew this but by building on top of water you can have a digger dig on the steps so that he continues digging into the water! Then, underwater he can even bash and build.
I'm aware of it, not sure if I explicitly mentioned it in my list of glitches. Basically the game has a check that prevents you from assigning most skills if the lemming is not standing on top of terrain. However once the skill is active, it doesn't necessarily require real terrain to continue, as we see with the underwater digging/mining/bashing glitches.
Post by: mobius on May 02, 2012, 12:03:44 AM
This time, 1 lemming somehow came out of the diggers tunnel except this time, he fell through the gap and died on the ground. It happened when I was looking at the other side of the level and I heard the splat. [so I don't know exactly what happened or what it looked like but this is pretty much the only possible answer]
So, subsequently what I said above is probably wrong about hovering the mouse over the lemming.
Since it was only 1 that "shifted" (a good a term as any) I solved the level anyway since 49/50 is required.
Post by: mobius on August 06, 2012, 09:04:55 PM
This would go under ‘diggers’.
If a lemming digs when he is partly on steel (even if he is mostly on terrain but a little bit of steel) he will swing once and stop. No terrain will appear to be removed; however lemmings will react as if the appropriate portion of terrain was actually removed. While the steel remains intact (normal). This also works if the lemming is standing nearby a steel wall even if there is no steel underneath him.
I couldn't replicate it yet so either I was mistaken or I just didn't figure it out yet.
Post by: ccexplore on August 07, 2012, 12:39:17 AM
[edit: what do you know, you can use this glitch on 8-8 "Take Her to Warp Speed, Captain" too. I wouldn't be surprised if there are more such levels]
I updated the footnote on the challenge thread to reference this post on the glitch. Personally it doesn't really feel like it's in the spirit of not damaging the level, but heck, it's too interesting a result to not at least mention there.
Post by: mobius on August 30, 2012, 10:06:40 PM
I honestly don’t know what to call this one. (I would’ve called it ‘sliding’ but I didn’t want to get it confused with the real sliding glitch as it’s nothing like that)* And it’s very difficult to describe and test out because it doesn’t seem to happen in any specific pattern. Except that it often happens when any lemmings nearby are performing any skill. I believe ccexplore actually mentioned this glitch;
Quote
“Sometimes when you scroll around the level, you may cause a lemming to somehow pass through a blocker. Exact circumstances still unclear (only happened twice to me so far). I think for this to happen, the level can't be paused when you are scrolling, but I'm not sure. I've also encountered one time where this happens merely when I fast-forwarded the game for a bit, without any scrolling.”
I also believe this glitch only happens on Windows 7, but I have no way of testing this at the moment.
If a group of lemmings are milling about in a restricted area (that is: inside blockers, or enclosed space with terrain) a
This happened to me on a few levels I don’t have screenshots for:
7-8 Build em Up then Bring em down.
When doing the no-damage challenge, I was building up toward the left near the balloon and when he hit the wall he turned around and started walking on air.
9-7 Battle of Lemmuckburn. I had the same situation ccexplore detailed. With blockers on the lower area near the entrance. Except it wasn’t just one or two; quite a bunch of lemmings escaped the blocker and fell to their death.
edit: when this happened, I wasn't doing anything nearby, so what I said above about lemmings using a skill nearby probably is meaningless. In fact, it happened twice; first time I was on the other side of the level and suddenly heard lemmings splatting and I only realized what happened a second time when it happened almost exactly the same.
I can also confirm that it never happens when the game is paused. I know for a fact this glitch never happened to me on older computers however, I have been playing the game a lot more often and doing more advanced things lately. In any case, I'm not saying I have figured out all the details yet. I really have no idea what's going on.
-------------------
*Has the sliding glitch been tested to work in Revolution? It’s much more difficult to test plus, I’m not sure lemmings even “jump” in this game at all. Considering they can’t get up steps as high as the first generation.
Post by: ccexplore on August 31, 2012, 09:36:03 AM
And AFAIK lemmings don't "jump" on Revolution, so I don't expect the sliding glitch to work on that game. Indeed, even in games like Lemmings 2 and Lemmings 3 there is already no "jump" when walking up taller steps.
Post by: mobius on October 06, 2012, 04:11:50 AM
dig down a bridge glitch. I think somebody mentioned this before but I'm not sure (and I don't have time to look through the entire thread right now)
When a lemming digs on a stair, facing left and going the direction downward; he’ll dig a hole but he won’t fall through the stair, he’ll continue walking down. I still need to do more testing, but I think this only happens facing left (and going down).
--------------
another odd thing I noticed, which I don’t know if it’s a glitch or not:
I previously thought and observed that time doors work either direction. That is; when a lemming passes through from either direction, the counter always goes down. Until I recently played 10-2 Legend of Smelly Belly.
The time door in this level works completely differently; lemmings going to the right make it count down. But when a lemming passes going left, it goes back up!
This is also one of the few levels in which this time door can be opened up again (and get its timer reset via the laser gates).
First of all; when the door is reset its timer doesn’t right away go back to 5, it remains zero, until a lemming passes by.
As you can see from figure 2, you can actually get the timer to go up past its initial setting by having a lemming go in the wrong direction first, after being reset. (this door’s counter is original at 5). I'll have to tinker around some more tomorrow/later.
Post by: ccexplore on October 07, 2012, 02:25:53 AM
I previously thought and observed that time doors work either direction. That is; when a lemming passes through from either direction, the counter always goes down. Until I recently played 10-2 Legend of Smelly Belly.
The time door in this level works completely differently; lemmings going to the right make it count down. But when a lemming passes going left, it goes back up!
I could swear that I've seen it work like that (ie. can go back up walking left) in earlier levels as well. If I get a chance I'll check. Nevertheless, definitely some interesting and unexpected behavior you mentioned below.
Post by: mobius on March 29, 2013, 02:49:26 AM
)if you make a lemming a builder as soon as it leaves a teleport it will immediately re-teleport. It does not change direction however; it will come out of the exit T facing the same direction it was.
I'm guessing this has something to do with builders. They must shift slightly backward when starting (actually I suspected they did this before) Thus they re enter the teleport.
This works in both directions.
Post by: mobius on July 21, 2014, 09:51:32 PM
Quote
(from original post)
A timed door normally only allows a predetermined number of lemmings to pass, but you can sneak more through if you've got them bunched up tightly enough. (reported by LemSteven)
I've finally confidently discovered this definitely does NOT work for me. For whatever reason in my game; the exact opposite happens; if lemmings are squeezed together and more than the time door allows pass into it, it closes and kills MORE than it should.
[I discovered this on "Where is Carol Vorderlem?"]
As to why this is i have no idea; maybe my game is newer and this was yet another patch they made to fix the game or maybe my game is more glitchier.
-note- I'm not refuting that it works differently in other people's games, I've seen it work as such, so i really don't understand it.
----
another note about time doors:
I previously thought and observed that time doors work either direction. That is; when a lemming passes through from either direction, the counter always goes down. Until I recently played 10-2 Legend of Smelly Belly.
The time door in this level works completely differently; lemmings going to the right make it count down. But when a lemming passes going left, it goes back up!
I could swear that I've seen it work like that (ie. can go back up walking left) in earlier levels as well. If I get a chance I'll check. Nevertheless, definitely some interesting and unexpected behavior you mentioned below.
I also confirmed by belief the level "Where is Carol Vorderlem?" UNLIKE "the legend of smelly belly" the time doors in this level never count back up, they always count down no matter which direction the lemming walks. This is the usual behavior, but you could be right in that other levels have the "smelly belly" behavior but I have yet to see it.
------
I wanted to start a counter with the glitches in revolution but it might be too late... I did however discover a new one recently, but I didn't write it down and forget it now. I'll try to remember it; it was very bizzare
Not sure if this was it but [and this might've been mentioned already] sometimes lemmings can simply disappear [and die] under a variety of circumstances. A new one I found was; reset a blocker by bombing, bashing, for some reason he fell into the terrain then was gone forever. Can't remember what level this was but there was nothing else odd in the area
Post by: ccexplore on July 21, 2014, 11:31:01 PM
Quote(from original post)
A timed door normally only allows a predetermined number of lemmings to pass, but you can sneak more through if you've got them bunched up tightly enough. (reported by LemSteven)
I've finally confidently discovered this definitely does NOT work for me. For whatever reason in my game; the exact opposite happens; if lemmings are squeezed together and more than the time door allows pass into it, it closes and kills MORE than it should.
It's possible you might just be misunderstanding LemSteven's description? It has been a while since I last touched the game (more on that below), but if I recall correctly, the door does still close, just that because it's not totally instantaneous, it may be possible for the lemmings to all get past before the closure actually kills anyone.
I also confirmed by belief the level "Where is Carol Vorderlem?" UNLIKE "the legend of smelly belly" the time doors in this level never count back up, they always count down no matter which direction the lemming walks. This is the usual behavior, but you could be right in that other levels have the "smelly belly" behavior but I have yet to see it.
Aside from different versions and patches, I suppose it's quite possible that maybe a timed door can be set up in a level either way, to respond either the same or differently based on direction. We just don't know anything about how things are represented and stored in the game's level files to know one way or another. I seem to recall for example that I've observed and reported here some behaviorial differences (though nothing as fundamental as timed door directionality) with teleporters. Also I believe some glitches here have been reported to only work on specific levels?
------
I've been in an unfortunate position with this game for a while, with one of my two game CDs damaged, and the other one not yet found (I think it's still in the house? although frankly it may also have been damaged some time ago and thrown away and I completely forgot about it
). There is probably some way to coax the game to be played without the actual CD, but I haven't bothered yet to figure out how.
Post by: Prob Lem on July 22, 2014, 12:43:01 AM
There is probably some way to coax the game to be played without the actual CD, but I haven't bothered yet to figure out how.There is. I know this because it's necessary to use a no-CD crack to get it running under WINE after you've gotten it installed from the CD.
The problem is, for some reason, this causes the loss of the level names, so you get something like "Undefined String" written where the level titles should be...
Post by: mobius on July 22, 2014, 03:52:41 AM
Quote(from original post)
A timed door normally only allows a predetermined number of lemmings to pass, but you can sneak more through if you've got them bunched up tightly enough. (reported by LemSteven)
I've finally confidently discovered this definitely does NOT work for me. For whatever reason in my game; the exact opposite happens; if lemmings are squeezed together and more than the time door allows pass into it, it closes and kills MORE than it should.
It's possible you might just be misunderstanding LemSteven's description? It has been a while since I last touched the game (more on that below), but if I recall correctly, the door does still close, just that because it's not totally instantaneous, it may be possible for the lemmings to all get past before the closure actually kills anyone.
I understand the description. You compress x lemmings together. They try to pass through a time door which is set to >x, they all walk through safely and the door closes. correct? I've seen it proven in a picture by you or somebody [I actually think Pirohiko does it but I need to look for it]
For whatever reason in my game; instead; if you compress x lemmings together, they try to pass through a time door set to >x, they ALL die! So I'm actually losing more lemmings than I should be.
I'll look into it some more but this happened enough times to me that it wasn't a fluke (not just on 1 level) I haven't yet been able to get the "cheat" to work.------------
It can't be me just doing it wrong either right? because; if they are compressed either they are all going to get through or they are all are not. So far nobody's posted evidence of the third and final option; the game somehow magically separating compressed lemmings and only killing the ones over the limit. I will continue to try and investigate anyway. Maybe this could be the patch and/or windows 7?
I finally did it! I was able to get 6 lemmings through a 5 door on Green with Envy. Maybe I wasn't trying hard enough or they weren't compressed enough but I know for a fact that on certain occasions MORE lemmings died than were supposed to. I'll have to keep researching [I really should be doing something more valuable with my time I guess
]I also confirmed by belief the level "Where is Carol Vorderlem?" UNLIKE "the legend of smelly belly" the time doors in this level never count back up, they always count down no matter which direction the lemming walks. This is the usual behavior, but you could be right in that other levels have the "smelly belly" behavior but I have yet to see it.
Aside from different versions and patches, I suppose it's quite possible that maybe a timed door can be set up in a level either way, to respond either the same or differently based on direction. We just don't know anything about how things are represented and stored in the game's level files to know one way or another. I seem to recall for example that I've observed and reported here some behaviorial differences (though nothing as fundamental as timed door directionality) with teleporters. Also I believe some glitches here have been reported to only work on specific levels?
I'd say it's a pretty good chance your right. And you're right about other things like the teleporters too. A lot of things like this are level -specific actually.
I suppose on Smelly Belly, it's sort of a fail safe. The layout of that level it makes it easier for it work this way? That is; if it worked the "usual" way; you could permanently trap lemmings in the entrance area by simply ignoring the beginning area. (you open up the door again in the level twice, but if you have more than 5 the last time, those extra will be trapped forever then)
Sorry to hear about CD troubles
I know Prob Lem is right; little is 'on' the CD; the annoying "Level completed" or "Level failed" videos are one of those things. However; I also encountered Prob Lem's untitled strong glitch-- it happened in an early incarnation of Guy's Patch, he managed to fix it. If he's around you can ask him how he fixed it. I seem to recall him saying he wasn't able to get the patch/game to run without the CD but I'm not sure about that. I know the CD only spins up for me when the "level completed" videos play. EDIT: I think it also spins up for the loading screens. [difficult to tell sometimes nowadays when computers/CD roms drives are so quiet
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