Post by: Save Me on November 24, 2011, 02:01:39 PM
Can-Can
London Bridge is Falling Down
You Canna Shove Your Granny Off a Bus
I'm a Fruit and Nut Case
Can someone clearly identify all pieces of music in the original Lemmings and what 'real life' pieces of music they correspond to? Some of the best pieces of music in Lemmings I haven't been able to identify. Anyone?
Post by: Simon on November 24, 2011, 02:43:38 PM
1. Lemming1, variation on Pachelbel's Canon, latter part of Lemmings 2 classic, remixed in Lemmings 3
2. Lemming2, original composition, first part of Lemmings 2 Classic, remixed in Lemmings 3
3. Lemming3, original composition
4. Coming round the mountain
5. twang, a mix of Ten green bottles, Chopin's funeral march and Wagner's Here Comes the Bride
6. Can-can
7. Tim1, original composition
8. Tim2,
9. Tim3, original composition
10. Tim4, original composition, remixed in Lemmings 3
11. How much is the doggie in the window
12. Tim5, original composition
13. Tim6,
14. Tim7, Alla Turca
15. Tim8, Dance of the Little Swans
16. Tim9, London Bridge is Falling Down
17. Tim10, Forest Green = Oh little town of Bethlehem, and The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
Special graphics levels have remixes from their corresponding DMA games. Oh no more Lemmings has 6 mostly original compositions. Other versions of Lemmings 1 usually play the above listed tracks in a different order.
Quote
what 'real life' pieces of music they correspond to?
Lemmings is the real life.
-- Simon
Post by: finlay on November 24, 2011, 02:50:53 PM
As far as I can remember, this is just "she'll be coming round the mountain" with different lyrics, and possibly written/performed by the Singing Kettle...
You Canna Shove Your Granny Off a Bus
Post by: Save Me on November 24, 2011, 10:35:57 PM
I suppose Lemmings is a Scottish creation, right?
Post by: ccexplore on November 24, 2011, 10:50:24 PM
13. Tim6, original compotision (I think)No, it was a remix of one of the dances from Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite, "Dance of the Reed Flutes" according to Wikipedia.
Post by: finlay on November 25, 2011, 12:20:25 AM
Are you Scottish as well finlay?Yes and yes... I'm from Edinburgh, and DMA/Rockstar was/is based here too. Coincidentally, too; I only found out a few years ago.
I suppose Lemmings is a Scottish creation, right?
But they were going for "She'll be coming round the mountain" – it's referred to as MOUNTAIN in the data files, IIRC. "Ye cannae shove yer granny off a bus" is a derivation of this song which was sung (to my knowledge) by the Singing Kettle – whether they just wrote it down or whether they invented it I'm not sure. According to Wikipedia, the song is American and derived in turn from black religious music in the 19th century. The granny variation is also mentioned on the Wikipedia article.
anyway welcome aboard.
Post by: namida on November 25, 2011, 08:16:19 AM
13 is original as far as I'm aware
14 is Miniature Overture
15 is Scotland the Brave
17 is Don't Dilly-Dally On The Way
Post by: Nortaneous on November 29, 2011, 06:43:31 AM
5. Ten green bottlesWikipedia says:
Quote
"Twang" - A song that uses melodies from traditional song "Ten Green Bottles", Chopin's funeral march and Wagner's "Here Comes the Bride".
Also, what's "mostly" original mean? This one sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't place it, and I've never heard the ONML music before unless it was used in the Covox demo or any of the Christmas games. (I didn't even know that they existed until now. I think my version had the original Lemmings music for everything; either that or the music didn't work, which wouldn't surprise me at all considering the utter clusterf*** that was SoundBlaster.)
Post by: ccexplore on November 29, 2011, 12:02:04 PM
Also, what's "mostly" original mean? This one sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't place it, and I've never heard the ONML music before unless it was used in the Covox demo or any of the Christmas games. (I didn't even know that they existed until now. I think my version had the original Lemmings music for everything; either that or the music didn't work, which wouldn't surprise me at all considering the utter clusterf*** that was SoundBlaster.)
For Xmas 94 they did simply reuse half of the ONML music (first 3 in the PC version; the 3rd is the one you linked to). Whereas for the other Xmas games, they actually incorporated some traditional Xmas carol tunes, namely Jingle Bells and Good King Wenceslas, and then reuse Tim 10 (see Simon's list) for the 3rd music.
The only example I can think of on the PC where you may have original Lemmings music playing while playing ONML levels, is the (or maybe "one of the") Windows version that comes with both sets of levels in the same game. But then again, I don't pretend to know all the different demo and special versions that exist out there.
Post by: ccexplore on November 29, 2011, 12:07:33 PM
Quote"Twang" - A song that uses melodies from traditional song "Ten Green Bottles", Chopin's funeral march and Wagner's "Here Comes the Bride".
I'm not sure where "twang" came from, but the article's correct about the three melodies that were used in that one. I always thought (and I'm still fairly sure) it was a remix of the three that was done specifically for Lemmings, rather than a pre-existing song/arrangement.
Post by: finlay on November 29, 2011, 12:29:15 PM
Post by: Simon on November 29, 2011, 12:31:36 PM
Coming round the mountain is probably one of the most re-texted songs. One German children's variation translates roughly to: "From the blue mountains we come, our teacher is exactly as dumb as we are. With the glasses on his nose, he looks like an easter bunny."
-- Simon
Post by: Nortaneous on November 29, 2011, 10:40:23 PM
The only example I can think of on the PC where you may have original Lemmings music playing while playing ONML levels, is the (or maybe "one of the") Windows version that comes with both sets of levels in the same game.I think it was DOS, but it definitely did have both sets of levels on the same disk.
I'd guess the same thing, especially considering that the Forest Green arrangement does something similar. The only reference I can find for the name besides Wikipedia and Youtube is this page. What's it called in the data files?Quote"Twang" - A song that uses melodies from traditional song "Ten Green Bottles", Chopin's funeral march and Wagner's "Here Comes the Bride".
I'm not sure where "twang" came from, but the article's correct about the three melodies that were used in that one. I always thought (and I'm still fairly sure) it was a remix of the three that was done specifically for Lemmings, rather than a pre-existing song/arrangement.
Post by: finlay on November 29, 2011, 11:04:33 PM
Post by: ccexplore on November 30, 2011, 03:24:58 AM
Ten Lem (at least it is on the mac. someone who has the Amiga midi files could confirm this – I think the Amiga midis were simply taken and inserted into the mac version in a resource format. After all, I think the data files are the only place where titles like TIM1 and all that are even mentioned, so we must know it from somewhere...)
The Amiga version actually uses MODs not MIDIs. I may have remembered incorrectly, but I think the Mac version also aren't MIDIs either IIRC, even if they may sound like it. You are probably at least half correct about the tracks being copied and pasted into the mac version, although the instrument samples are definitely different.
I think the MOD file format does have places for track names that may have the name of the various songs, I'll have to check though.
For the PC version, the adlib.dat actually contains extra stuff (possibly a full test program, or at least remnants of it including the text) that also spells out the names of the tunes as the developers refer to them [note: order listed obviously different from the order you hear them in the game, and sorry I don't remember offhand which corresponds to which]:
Code: [Select]
Ad-Lib Music/FX Driver - (c) 1991 Sound Images Tel. 061 773 4541
~ Lemmings ~
Press - A - Awesome L - Tim1
B - BeastI M - Tim2
C - BeastII N - Tim3
D - CanCan O - Tim4
E - Doggie P - Tim5
F - Lemming1 Q - Tim6
G - Lemming2 R - Tim7
H - Lemming3 S - Tim8
I - Menace T - Tim9
J - Mountain U - Tim10
K - Ten Lemmings
Shifted A-Q for Sound Effects
Space - Fast Forward
Enter - Stop Tune
Escape - Quit(You can see for yourself by using the DOS File Decompression tool in Lemmix on adlib.dat, and then examine the extracted data with a hex editor or even Notepad.)
Post by: Adrian060756 on November 30, 2011, 01:15:12 PM
From what i've personally discovered and learned about the Lemmings songs*
Levels 1 & 18 Can Can (Orpheus In The Underworld) composed by Offenbach
Levels 2 & 19 Pachelbel's Canon In D Major composed by Johann Pachelbel
Levels 3 & 20 (Tailor Made For Blockers) unknown composer
Levels 4 & 21 (Miners And Climbers) unknown composer
Levels 5 & 22 Dance Of The Four Little Swans composed by Tchaikovsky
Levels 6 & 23 Puggs In Space Demo Track By Tim Wright
Levels 7 & 24 (The Ascending Pillar Scenario Disco-Been There, Seen It, Done It,) unknown composer
Levels 8 & 25 How Much Is That Doggie In The Window composed by Bob Merrill in 1952 sung by Patti Page
Levels 9 & 26 Dance Of The Reed Flutes (from the Nutcracker Suite) composed by Tchaikovsky
Levels 10 & 27 (Smile If You Love Lemmings) unknown composer
Levels 11 & 28 Rondo Alla Turca composed by Mozart
Levels 12 & 29 London Bridge Is Falling Down (first published in 1744) unknown composer
Levels 13 & 30 (We All Fall Down) composer unidentified although it may be an original composition by Matt Furniss 1992
Level 14 Miniature Overture (also from the Nutcracker Suite) by Tchaikovsky
Level 15 Scotland The Brave unknown composer
Level 16 She'll Be Coming Round The Mountain - song is originally american and was first sung in the late 1800's by railworker gangs, it is a derivation of a Negro spiritual known as "When the Chariot Comes". unknown composer
Level 17 My Old Man Said Follow The Van composed by Fred W. Leigh and Charles Collins song made popular by Marie Lloyd.
Lemmings Title Theme. unknown composer although it may be an original composition by Matt Furniss 1992
Other Songs On The Mega Drive Version:
Level 18 Sunsoft - Sunsoft Special = Overworld, Hebereke / Ufouria Theme Composed By Naoki Kodaka, Nobuyuki Hara, Shinichi Seya 1991
Mega Drive Ending Theme - March Of The Mods composed by Tony Carr
Happy now finlay? No spelling errors.
I'll just add that if Tim Wright and Brian Johnston did compose the ''unknown composer'' tracks, then they're not credited in the SEGA Master System and SEGA Mega Drive versions of Lemmings which is the two versions I personally grew up on so thats why I marked them as unknown. And I believe the Doggie song was out of copyright for a while as old songs tend to go out of copyright after 50 years or so but someone or some music publishing company bought the rights to the song again recently.
And since you like to nitpick on everything I post i'll throw one back at you. It's neither Johnson or Johnstone, it's (Johnston).
Post by: finlay on November 30, 2011, 02:29:33 PM
(Also, I hate the practice of naming the tracks after the Fun levels, but that's just me)
(Also, Tchaikovsky, not Thaikovsky.
)(also why do you keep capitalising every word?)
The order from the Amiga (as far as I know) and Mac versions is:
1. Can-Can
2. Lemming 1 (possibly a derivation of Pachelbel's Canon, but I can't hear that)
3. Tim 2 (original composition by Tim Wright? I don't know what the one Simon has marked is, and it doesn't sound anything like that when I searched it on Youtube)
4. Lemming 2 (original composition by Brian Johnstone & Tim Wright)
5. Tim 8 (Tchaikovsky's Four Little Swans)
6. Tim 3 (original composition)
7. Tim 5 (original)
8. Doggie (IIRC this is the only one of the Lemmings tunes still in copyright)
9. Tim 6 (Tchaikovsky's Reed Flutes from the Nutcracker)
10. Lemming 3 (original)
11. Tim 7 (Mozart's Rondo alla Turca)
12. Tim 9 (London Bridge)
13. Tim 1 (original)
14. Tim 10 (O Little Town of Bethlehem / Forest Green / whatever you want to call it & the riff from The Good the Bad and the Ugly)
15. Tim 4 (original)
16. Ten Lemmings (Ten Green Bottles / Here comes the bride / Funeral march – and some people have applied the name Twang, but I don't know where this comes from)
17. Mountain
This is mostly the same as the SMS version, except for tracks 13, 14, 15 and 17, which Namida already noted, and 16 which was originally 17.
The tracks repeat in this order throughout the game, so that 17 levels later you will hear the same track again... the special levels don't break the order, but instead replace the music they would have by this order with the track dictated by their special set (Beast I, Menacing, Awesome, Beast II). Because 119 is a multiple of 17, this leads to the quirk that Track #1 is heard 8 times (2 per set), while most other tracks are heard 7 times. Track #5 (Four Little Swans) is replaced by Beast I in Fun 22 and Track #7 is replaced by Awesome in Taxing 15, so they're only heard 6 times. By another quirk, Tricky 14 and Mayhem 22 are an exact multiple of 17 levels apart, so both of them replace Track #10 (Lemming 3), and it's only heard a total of 5 times in the game – which is annoying because I think it's one of the best tracks.
Post by: Nortaneous on December 01, 2011, 04:07:49 AM
I think the MOD file format does have places for track names that may have the name of the various songs, I'll have to check though.It does, and sometimes MOD authors will leave comments in the instrument or sample names. (If anyone's ever ripped the music from the DOS game Chain Reaction, that's a good example; I'd upload one as an example but I don't have them on this computer. It's fairly standard practice, though, so most MODs should work.) Can check using most MOD players, although I've found XMPlay to work best and most intuitively.
Post by: finlay on December 01, 2011, 02:17:13 PM
Happy now finlay? No spelling errors.Lol... sorry, I don't mean to be nasty. I only just happened to notice this, though, it might be worth making a new reply rather than just editing.
I'll just add that if Tim Wright and Brian Johnston did compose the ''unknown composer'' tracks, then they're not credited in the SEGA Master System and SEGA Mega Drive versions of Lemmings which is the two versions I personally grew up on so thats why I marked them as unknown. And I believe the Doggie song was out of copyright for a while as old songs tend to go out of copyright after 50 years or so but someone or some music publishing company bought the rights to the song again recently.
And since you like to nitpick on everything I post i'll throw one back at you. It's neither Johnson or Johnstone, it's (Johnston).
If they're not credited, that's Sunsoft's fault, then. They should be. IIRC from the mega drive version's credits, they only credited the staff at Sunsoft who made that particular version, and not the staff at DMA who made the original game – which I found a little bit odd.
How much is that doggie in the window? was written in 1952, so it very much was in copyright when Lemmings was made in 1991, if the rule is 50 years.
and yeah, my bad
Post by: Adrian060756 on December 01, 2011, 03:25:41 PM
If they're not credited, that's Sunsoft's fault, then. They should be. IIRC from the mega drive version's credits, they only credited the staff at Sunsoft who made that particular version, and not the staff at DMA who made the original game – which I found a little bit odd.
How much is that doggie in the window? was written in 1952, so it very much was in copyright when Lemmings was made in 1991, if the rule is 50 years.
and yeah, my bad
I agree with you here, Sunsoft just like many Japanese gaming publishers and companies are god-awful at crediting and giving proper credit where credit is due. The Mega Drive version credits Hirohiko Takayama as the only music composer through out the whole game when he was only the arranger of the Mega Drive-Genesis soundtrack, Tsukamoto was the guy that actually programmed all the 16-bit FM and PSG synths into the game while the Master System version didn't even bother to credit anybody, not even the guy who did the 8-bit Master System conversions = Matt Furniss. His name is completely absent from the game aswell as the 2 or 3 other Probe developers who made the 8-bit Lemmings game (Mark Knowles, Dominic Wood etc). The SNES version is also guilty of wrongful credit of musical composition. In my ears, Hirohiko Takayama is a genius for his arrangements of the tunes in the Mega Drive soundtrack but even I know he never actually composed any of the pieces.
And as for the Doggie song (Tim 8 or whatever) Yes, very true about the 50 year copyright thing when the original Lemmings game was made but I was refering to sometime later around 2008-2009 when the song was out of copyright, now it has been bought again. Lol even the sing-song ''Happy Birthday'' is copyrighted these days.
Post by: finlay on December 01, 2011, 03:46:34 PM
Also, it was referred to as "Doggie" in the files – not all of them had the confusing Tim # titles, which as far as I know indicates that Tim Wright was the composer. Doggie was removed from some versions; it's not in the PS1 version, for instance, presumably for the copyright reason (neither was Tim 10, or the various special levels). The PS1 version also has a different order, which I can't remember off the top of my head, and if you fail a level and start again, it'll use the next track in line, unlike the original where the tracks are fixed for each level (if that makes sense).
*actually, Wikipedia says it's Life+70 years in the US and UK, or 70 years from creation in the UK (95 years from creation in the US). I don't really understand how it can be both, but that period isn't up yet either way. Of course, it is 50 elsewhere.
Post by: ccexplore on December 01, 2011, 09:20:26 PM
I agree with you here, Sunsoft just like many Japanese gaming publishers and companies are god-awful at crediting and giving proper credit where credit is due.
Though in the case of Lemmings, it's kinda funny when you consider that Tim didn't exactly credit Tchaikovsky or the other composers that he borrowed the non-copyrighted tunes from either, so I guess you can argue the Japanese were simply following suit.
Kinda sux though that they even neglected crediting some of the developers involved with the ports.==========
That said, I'm not sure it's standard practice for a port to credit individuals on the original game. Typically they would mention maybe the whole company (ie. DMA) who made the original version, or the publisher they bought the porting rights from. And in some cases they may even credit one or two key game designers from the original, but I think it's less common to individually credit everyone from the original. Of course it depends on how much they want to devote to credits. I'm sure with certain games that have much longer credit rolls, you are likely to see more crediting given.
Post by: Adrian060756 on December 02, 2011, 12:59:15 AM
Though in the case of Lemmings, it's kinda funny when you consider that Tim didn't exactly credit Tchaikovsky or the other composers that he borrowed the non-copyrighted tunes from either, so I guess you can argue the Japanese were simply following suit.
==========
That said, I'm not sure it's standard practice for a port to credit individuals on the original game. Typically they would mention maybe the whole company (ie. DMA) who made the original version, or the publisher they bought the porting rights from. And in some cases they may even credit one or two key game designers from the original, but I think it's less common to individually credit everyone from the original. Of course it depends on how much they want to devote to credits. I'm sure with certain games that have much longer credit rolls, you are likely to see more crediting given.
Thats true about Tim Wright, he's just as bad as the Japanese, although thats most likely DMA's fault as a whole just like Sunsoft and not so much the individual involved, but i'm glad he got away with the Doggie song if it really was copyrighted around the time of the original 1991 game on the Amiga because if he didn't put it in, chances are the others wouldn't have included that song in the other Lemmings ports. But looking back at older generations of video games like say the third generation of NES & Master System, almost all of those old games have no ending credits when the player happens to reach the end of the game, usually just get greeted with a ''The End'' or ''Game Over''. Fast-forward to today's generation of video games and you'll notice that alot more credit and detail is given in games.
Matt Furniss on the SEGA Master System had a very noticable sound on the games he worked on, you could always tell it was him who did the music conversion in a Master System game as he would always use different sounds not heard often on the Master System when compared to the many hundreds of other Master System games that used the same white noise sound for drums and the same square wave octaves. Matt always threw in the bassey sawtooth wave here and there for certain tracks making them sound more like the NES in exchange for giving up the white noise sound. Anyway the point i'm getting at is that I knew all along that Matt Furniss was responsible for the Master System Lemmings soundtrack and I remember feeling pissed off after finally finishing the game and discovering that his name wasn't mentioned in the 4 second credit screen. Why? He's mentioned in Back To The Future III, Alien 3, Prince Of Persia, Chuck Rock and many other Master System audio conversion games but not Lemmings when Lemmings has to be his greatest 8-bit work on that console. 18 Tracks all wonderfully arranged, well almost apart from Level 5's theme giving me a headache.
The point is that it would have been great to see credit given where credit is due in the older games. As ccexplore posted - ''Kinda sux though that they even neglected crediting some of the developers involved with the ports''. Indeed it does.
Post by: DragonsLover on December 02, 2011, 01:29:24 AM
And sorry for that little off-topicness.
Post by: finlay on December 02, 2011, 01:53:26 AM
*Sigh* I noticed my post has been deleted. That's fine, I just read the posts above and I understood I posted too fast once again. I have the feeling I never stop to fail here or posting uninteresting stuff related to Lemmings, probably because I'm not as active as most of you or haven't enough knowledge about the saga. I guess I should stop posting around here then, that should be better...Huh? who deleted it if not you? that's really odd... don't stop posting, anyway...
And sorry for that little off-topicness.
certainly if your post was deleted, my post in reply to yours was as well... which is a bit, well, annoying, because it might mean someone's f***ing around with my posts....
Post by: Adam on December 02, 2011, 08:30:23 AM
Post by: ccexplore on December 02, 2011, 10:19:19 AM
2. Lemming 1 (possibly a derivation of Pachelbel's Canon, but I can't hear that)That's a fairly good point. The harmonic progression (ie. bass) is fairly similar to that in Pachelbel's Canon, but even that isn't an exact match (the Canon does I V vi iii IV I IV V, while Lemmings1 does I V vi iii IV V I V). And the melody is fairly different, not to mention that Lemmings1 is obviously not a canon. So it's a (very) loose match at best.
3. Tim 2 (original composition by Tim Wright? I don't know what the one Simon has marked is, and it doesn't sound anything like that when I searched it on Youtube)Also have to agree with Finlay on that one. If this is what Simon has in mind for "good night ladies", it's even more tenuous a connection to Tim2 than Pachelbel is to Lemmings1. Hear Tim2 on DOS here (starting around 7:27).
Post by: finlay on December 02, 2011, 12:17:36 PM
Post by: ccexplore on December 02, 2011, 12:30:28 PM
Post by: finlay on December 02, 2011, 04:43:59 PM
Post by: DragonsLover on December 02, 2011, 10:51:43 PM
I can assure you that I haven't been messing with anyone's posts. Will get the server guys to look into it.
Well, I was pretty sure I posted something about the Holiday Lemmings musics, perhaps I clicked on the wrong button? Damn, I'm confused now.
Post by: Minim on December 03, 2011, 07:40:17 AM
Post by: namida on December 03, 2011, 07:47:34 AM
Post by: ccexplore on December 03, 2011, 09:52:03 AM
Speaking of Holiday music, I'm interested to see how many songs there are in the Holiday version of Lemmings. I wonder if they have such songs like "Jingle Bells", "Good King Wenceslas" and "O Littler Town of Bethlehem" like they did in the Xmas '91 demo version (Which was as far as I know the only DOS Xmas lemmings game I played).
91-93 all uses the same 3 tracks you noted. For 94 however they got really lazy, and just threw in the first 3 tracks from DOS ONML and call it a (holi)day.
Post by: finlay on December 03, 2011, 10:14:27 AM
Post by: DragonsLover on December 05, 2011, 05:26:45 PM
Maybe I previously copy/pasted the music. Anyway, that's what I recommend since I think this is what it was intended to be.But you sure the third song is "O Little Town of Bethlehem"? It really doesn't sound like that.
Post by: ccexplore on December 05, 2011, 08:11:07 PM
But you sure the third song is "O Little Town of Bethlehem"? It really doesn't sound like that.
It's a repeat of one of the tracks in Lemmings, specifically this one:
17. Tim10, Forest Green = Oh little town of Bethlehem, and The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
I'll have to hunt down renditions of "Oh little town..." tonight to see how similar or dissimilar it is to Tim10. It could well be the same deal as someone on the Internet making the tenuous connection between Lemmings1 and Pachelbel, I don't know yet.
Post by: finlay on December 05, 2011, 10:04:37 PM
O Little Town of Bethlehem
It's just that the hymn is sung with a different tune in North America.
Here's the Lemmings tune for comparison. Obviously game music sounds different from hymnal music but the connection is right there.
Lemmings Music Comparison - Tim 10
(You've even got Tim Wright - who is coldstorage on youtube - remarking that the tune caused a minor headache because it was still just in copyright to Ralph Vaughan-Williams' estate.)
Post by: DoubleU on December 05, 2011, 11:51:42 PM
The DOS version plays the tracks in the following order:Tim5 = "Dance of the Little Swans" (from Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake), and Reed Flutes is from Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite - or is that the other way around? There should be YouTube videos to check this.
[snip]
12. Tim5, original composition
13. Tim6,original compotision (I think)Dance of the Reed Flutes
[snip]
Lemmings is the real life.
-- Simon
Post by: finlay on December 06, 2011, 12:07:49 AM
(It's worth noting that the versions I've played don't tend to be on it properly, although the Mac is almost identical to the Amiga for L1, and the PS1 music is derived from the Windows version but rendered at higher quality for the CD. The music that I've heard played when I've played Lemmings on DOSBox – what's that??)
Post by: DoubleU on December 09, 2011, 04:36:10 PM
(It's worth noting that the versions I've played don't tend to be on it properly, although the Mac is almost identical to the Amiga for L1, and the PS1 music is derived from the Windows version but rendered at higher quality for the CD. The music that I've heard played when I've played Lemmings on DOSBox – what's that??)"What's that"? What do you mean? It's the same thing. I had the hardest time recognizing Lemming1, but they're all the same as from the other versions.
Post by: finlay on December 09, 2011, 04:46:09 PM
I think I mean what version of music is that? Often I see things denoted as the "PC music" when it doesn't sound like it does on DOSBox. (although the "Lemming 1" tune does sound more like Pachelbel's Canon on the DOS version, I'll grant it that)Never mind, i'm just rambling.
Post by: ccexplore on December 09, 2011, 08:45:21 PM
Often I see things denoted as the "PC music" when it doesn't sound like it does on DOSBox.
It's a little tricky on the PC because you have at least two OS's (DOS and Windows), and the DOS version supports at least two different audio technologies, Adlib and Tandy (the former is more common in most PCs at the time however). (Supposedly some version even has CD audio tracks on a CD-ROM, but so far I haven't been able to track down and verify such a claim.) Plus if you're talking about Youtube, I don't know how accurately people label things anyway.
For all I know even a remix can be labeled as "PC music" on Youtube, if someone took a remix from somewhere and then mislabeled it as PC music.If it sounds MIDI-like then it's probably the Windows version, I guess? If you have the Youtube link I can have a listen and see if I can identify.
[edit: also, if it's the MIDI on Windows, technically it can sound different on different hardware, depending on the instrument samples the sound card uses for MIDI. Though any MIDI played back on modern PCs will typically sound the same, because modern sound cards no longer directly support MIDI, it's actually emulated in Windows nowadays]
Post by: finlay on December 09, 2011, 10:57:02 PM
It's more of something general rather than a specific Youtube video...
Post by: Nortaneous on December 10, 2011, 12:18:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPkKgrmgFTw
Supposedly some version even has CD audio tracks on a CD-ROM, but so far I haven't been able to track down and verify such a claim.There was one. I used to have it somewhere. None of the things on Youtube claiming to be from the CD version sound right to me, but it's probably been eight years since I last heard it so I can't say for sure. If there's a complete set going around anywhere, it should have two versions of the intro music: one with sound effects (Track 3) and one without (Track 2, or the first audio track).
Post by: Nortaneous on January 08, 2012, 10:13:36 AM
Also, Tim Wright on Tim7: (from a Youtube comment)
Quote
Indeed... written (shoddily) from memory(!) and then I just started to waffle away with my own theme... (cough!)i.e. only half is the Turkish March
Quote from: finlay
I think it's the Adlib/Tandy difference, whatever those words mean.What even is Tandy as far as audio goes? Is that some weird term for Soundblaster and Gravis, or...? (it should be obvious that it's been a long time since I've installed Lemmings on DOS...)
edit: I just noticed that they edited the part from the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly out of the DOS CD version of Tim10.
Post by: ccexplore on January 08, 2012, 11:24:49 AM
i.e. only half is the Turkish MarchI think in terms of amount of time taken it was much more than half. Basically only the final 8 measures before repeating are brand new and not derived from Mozart's composition.
I mean, a lot of the music that's copied from other tunes are like that. The original classical compositions for example don't actually loop after a minute or two, so at some point you have to deviate to make the music usable for a game. Plus it's hard for a musician to just blindly copy without trying to add something of his own to it.
What even is Tandy as far as audio goes?These links below from Wikipedia give some background on it. Tandy is actually not an audio thing, it's a whole series of PC models sold in Radio Shack that have some non-standard audio and graphics abilities beyond those from IBM compatibles back in the very early days of PCs (ie. beyond the pathetic CGA and the square-wave internal speaker [only good for the BIOS beeps basically]). From Wikipedia, the actual sound chip used by Tandy is the Texas Instruments SN76489. It's a little better than the BIOS beeper but nowhere as advanced as SoundBlaster. Kinda similar to NES's sound capabilities except slightly more primitive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCjr#Legacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_1000