Here's a first actual contribution to this topic--Taxing 17.
As for Wild 15, I know that several methods exist for 96%, but I only know one of them. I think several of us are going to have to get together on this one and figure out what skills all of the methods have in common. My method requires everything except a blocker and four bombers.
I did a 100% no-builder run of Fun 29, here, which is a good start towards a result on that level.
Wild 12 can be 100%-ed a couple of different ways, because I'm pretty sure that my method differs from the way ccexplore got it back on the old Lemmingswelt forums. I believe ccexplore's method traps the crowd at the start between a blocker and the left side of the level while the leader bashes underneath the majority of the level.
Aside: note that the fakeness of the one-way wall in Wild 12 doesn't work in Lemmix due to a known bug in Lemmix (ie. the same one that affects, eg., the "check your hints" Xmas level that was supposed to only have 1 working exit out of 13). Get the same effect in Lemmix by deleting both of the OWW objects.
What is the Tame 20 trick? I think I know, but I've never actually seen that level performed without builders.
The 100% no-builder Tame 20 solution was posted somewhere here, back in the days of the old forums (eg. Cheapo was actually still popular at that time, so yeah, ancient history ).
I'm going a bit off-topic here, but whenever I try downloading files from that site, I end up with a file called 'index.php'. Renaming the file doesn't help (at least for the Tame 20 replay). Any idea what's going on here?
Crazy 8 4 Builders: 2 builders are used to get over the water and 2 more are used to get up to the exit. If you start the final basher in the right place, you won't need a builder to stop him (ccexplore's basher planning tutorial helps a bunch here).
Crazy 12 2 Builders: Start your first basher as far left as possible and set the RR to 99. As soon as the basher breaks through, place a blocker at the extreme edge, which should be raised one pixel due to the basher's stroke. One lemming must go past to clear the rest of the route, and the original basher (who takes one more stroke because he is on an even number) will bounce off the blocker. When the route is clear, bash away the pixel the blocker is standing on.
Crazy 19 5 Builders: Take the ceiling route, using the release rate for crowd control.
I'm going a bit off-topic here, but whenever I try downloading files from that site, I end up with a file called 'index.php'. Renaming the file doesn't help (at least for the Tame 20 replay). Any idea what's going on here?
The 100% no-builder Tame 20 solution was posted somewhere here, back in the days of the old forums (eg. Cheapo was actually still popular at that time, so yeah, ancient history ).Also in that case it should also say "none" in the OP.
Crazy 12: 2 Builders + 4 Bashers
Set the RR to 86, so the lemmings merge in the hole. When the 78th lemming enters, change the RR to 99. Assign basher to the last lemming as it turns. The merged crowd turns around just before the basher breaks through, giving you enough time to complete the path.
Fun28: 7 builders
[Tricky] 12: 3 floaters, 1 builder
[Tricky] 13: 8 builders
[Tricky 12]By using the miner trick to turn the first lemming around quickly, this can be done with 2 floaters, attached replay showing the start (the rest of the level is easy). There's also a no-builder solution floating around somewhere, though I don't recall whether it saves 100%.
Disregarding the above comment, here's Fun 20 100% with 1 builder.Oops, completely forgot about that level. Well works out anyway, with you doing it saving me time.
there's one level that I can't seem to get 100% on, and that's Hail 5: Get the Point?. I know that you have 10 builders and I also know about giving three builders to make one turn around and do a safety bridge, but I always run out of builders. In my mind you need 4 to reach the exit, and possibly another 4 to free the others (when on the spike, that is) without using a blocker, or maybe the blocker needs to be used so that it can be freed by digging onto it.
Turn the lemming that builds under the entrance, by making a lemming block on the bridge as soon as it lands from the entrance.
Is there a specific method to save the maximum on hail 6?
Tricky 28 100% using no more than 1 builder.
The first obstacle is ascended with three builders, and then a digger + builder is used to split the fall on the other side. Ideally, the other two identical obstacles would be handled the same way, saving the miners to create the passageways from the lower platforms to the upper platforms. Unfortunately, this would require 12 builders, and you only have 10.
To compensate, the two remaining pillars must be ascended with just two builders apiece instead of three. However two builders alone do not gain enough height to ascend the pillars, so you need to send climbers up to mine away the top corner of each pillar. The miners continue down the bridges and ultimately clear a path for the lemmings on the lower platforms.
That's the general idea, but there are a couple of other complications that make things difficult (including the time limit).
OK, this challenge is similar to the skills you can't live without thread, with one slightly more difficult twist: You are now trying to save 100% (Or if that level is not possible, the maximum percentage known to be solved). I would be interested to see the results of Mayhem 4 and Havoc 10.Where can I get details of these results? Some seem too high, and some seem forgotten.
Some levels do require 100%. We can leave those out while we solve each non-100% level. The box below shows the list of levels where 100% is impossible.Quote from: List of levels where 100% is impossibleIf a level is not on this list, it's possible to achieve 100% on, and thus 100% is the requirement for a solution to qualify in this challenge. If it's on the list, the required % is listed.
Orig OhNo Holiday
Fun 3: 47/50 Crazy 3: 48/50 Flurry 16: 49/50
Fun 6: 48/50 Crazy 10: 79/80 Blitz 12: 79/80
Fun 18: 65/70 Crazy 11: 40/80 Blitz 15: 10/15
Tricky 15: 7/10 Crazy 14: 48/50 Blitz 16: 48/50
Tricky 16: 46/50 Wild 5: 77/80 Frost 6: 69/70
Tricky 17: 48/50 Wild 13: 77/80 Frost 14: 45/50
Tricky 18: 9/10 Wild 15: 48/50 Hail 2: 76/80
Tricky 23: 79/80 Wild 18: 78/80 Hail 6: 46/80
Taxing 7: 79/80 Wicked 1: 59/60
Taxing 19: 65/70 Wicked 4: 49/50
Taxing 27: 77/80 Wicked 7: 76/80
Taxing 28: 70/80 Wicked 8: 46/50
Mayhem 5: 76/80 Wicked 10: 49/50
Mayhem 10: 73/75 Wicked 12: 79/80
Mayhem 19: 47/50 Wicked 15: 48/50
Mayhem 26: 76/80 Wicked 16: 5/6
Mayhem 29: 78/80 Havoc 10: 17/21
Havoc 20: 53/60
Where can I get details of these results? Some seem too high, and some seem forgotten.
Nope, they are all done with the original DOS version mechanics. For Taxing 6, there is a way to reduce the distance of the fall on the right so the lemmings can survive.I'd quite like to see taxing 6 too, because while i know about the trick to bash through the top of the steel, I can't think of how not to have the lemmings falling off the left edge of the block that they start on...
We really ought to have an organised database of challenge replays, especially for things like max % and least skills
A bomber is set just before the top of the hill. If the timing is right a crater should be made and some steel should blow up without him actually landing on it. The lemmings can be freed by bashing into the crater. That way he'll continuously bash through the steel and underneath the one-way obstacle.
6 builders?
As for Taxing 13, I'm going to go ahead and suggest 1 climber, 1 builder, 2 bashers, and 3 miners as a starting point. There may still be room for improvement, but so far I haven't had any luck.Okay, let's start by getting rid of the climber as previously demonstrated.
It uses the miner positioning glitch such that the crowd can be trapped and released. I'm pretty sure the replay had been posted here. You should bookmark that page.I knew that this glitch was possible on the Mac, but I've no idea how to sort of activate it. Is it something to do with the bomber in this case...? if so, it might be something slightly different in that case – certainly on the Mac you can get it to kinda drop through a one-pixel gap on its own sometimes if you assign it in the right place.
Sidenote: this is one of few results I've actually verified on Mac Lemmings. Although on the Mac, if I recall, some subtle differences with the terrain removal mask for miner means the 17/21 solution needs to be modified slightly to work.
The glitch thread should have a reasonably good explanation for the miner glitch, and yes, the bomber is involved in the miner-glitch usage with the PC's 17/21 solution:It uses the miner positioning glitch such that the crowd can be trapped and released. I'm pretty sure the replay had been posted here. You should bookmark that page.I knew that this glitch was possible on the Mac, but I've no idea how to sort of activate it. Is it something to do with the bomber in this case...? if so, it might be something slightly different in that case – certainly on the Mac you can get it to kinda drop through a one-pixel gap on its own sometimes if you assign it in the right place.
Sidenote: this is one of few results I've actually verified on Mac Lemmings. Although on the Mac, if I recall, some subtle differences with the terrain removal mask for miner means the 17/21 solution needs to be modified slightly to work.
The miner's explosion countdown reaches 0 just when the miner positioning glitch places it, just before he starts mining through, below the bottommost row of pixels, so that he's actually standing on thin air when he starts "oh no". And since oh-no-ers fall, he never gets a chance to explode, and you have your crowd trapped.But actually, I have to rework the 17/21 solution a little for the Mac, using a move that doesn't work on the PC version:
Because of subtle differences in the miner's terrain removal, the PC solution would've lost one more lemming on the Mac, due to that lemming being able to get out from the end of an in-progress miner tunnel. I don't remember the details off top of my head, but basically it forced me to rework the solution to use the bomber for some other purpose. So I make use of the miner positioning glitch by assigning digger to the miner at the same time the PC version's trick kicks in, for same effect (ie. miner falls through w/o breaking through the terrain). It doesn't work on the PC version because the 1st-time dig also takes out 2 additional rows of pixels above the expected 1 row below the lemming, whereas on the Mac version even the 1st dig takes out only 1 row of pixels (which is nothing in this case because the miner is already positioned to be standing on thin air).
Also... climberless Havoc 4 solution??That's another one of those "simple solutions made possible by release rate jiggering" solutions. Paving the path is as simple as dig, bash, build. And the technique to work out how to make sure everyone exits in time is fairly similar to what I did for the min-skills solution for "Just a Minute". This post describes my technique for working out the release rate jiggering with help of Lemmix's text versions of replays.
It uses the miner positioning glitch such that the crowd can be trapped and released. I'm pretty sure the replay had been posted here. You should bookmark that page.
[edit: on that note, minimac, please use the replay to start off the results here for Havoc 10, since you brought that up on the OP. It well may be the final result for that level.]
I am trying to, but whenever I click on a link, the download comes up as index.php and I don't know how to sort that out.
Taxing 14: The crowd is held in by digging at a pixel-precise location and then making the digger block as soon as the left side of his hole is seven pixels high. The crowd gets stuck at the left edge of the hole and can be freed with a single miner. The rest of the level is the same as the min-skills solution, using 17 builders and 2 bashers.
Taxing 18: Build a stairway with six builders such that the last brick laid provides a six pixel high step onto the OWW. The first lemming to go up there builds immediately so that the crowd can't follow him (some release rate jiggery-pokery is useful to make sure this lemming doesn't have anyone immediately behind him). Now float down to the right side, build 2x over the exit, build up to the OWW to break the fall, and bash to get to the exit. Finally, build one more time to release the crowd.
Also, Taxing 18 can be reduced to 11 builders.
[Taxing] 25: 5 builders, 2 bashers
Goodness... I never thought of taking the outside route before. Great job capitalizing on that.
The first lemming mines, and the second lemming blocks such that he is freed by the miner's 6th stroke. The freed blocker turns around, digs to stop the miner, and then bashes immediately. If done correctly, both the basher and miner should stop.
The next step is to set up the Tame 20 glitch at the left wall. One lemming blocks such that another lemming gets pushed in the wall. The blocker must be placed as far to the right as possible, because he must be freed using just a digger and a basher, and the basher must stop after his first stroke. Once the blocker is freed, the lemming stuck in the wall climbs (the skill must be assigned while the lemming is facing right, otherwise the Tame 20 glitch won't work properly).
As soon as the climber is above the bottom of the ceiling, he mines left and then digs after taking one stroke. When the right side of the digger's hole is six pixels high, make him bash. He takes one swipe and then digs again two pixels to the left of the previous digger. This digger goes down six pixels and then bashes again. Now dig one more time, such that the digger just barely takes out the left edge of the wall.
The last digger keeps going until he is twelve pixels above the floor that the crowd is walking on, at which point he builds. This builder runs into the pillar on the left and mines the instant he turns around. The miner goes back down the bridge and through the wall, emerging just low enough such that the crowd can just barely step up into his tunnel. The other builder is used at the very top of the first bridge; this one should use all twelve bricks.
The second bridge ends up one pixel too low for the crowd to continue their way up the steps, but fortunately the climber can get up there and mine from the bottom step, lowering the edge by a pixel and allowing the crowd to step up. The rest is easy -- just bash through the ceiling and mine to the exit.
I have done some Flurry levels, except for 7, 10 and 12. I have confirmed that levels 1-6, 9 and 11 are none, and that 16 can be done with 4 builders. Had no luck without using all three bashers though. If anyone wants to see the no basher level 9 solution or the 4-builder level 16 solution please let me know, as I have replays for those in my folder.
Note that the 1-builder solution in the skills you can't live without thread doesn't work here because you can't save everyone with the sliding glitch. It is possible to send up one lemming with the sliding glitch and have him mine down to help the others, but that also ends up using quite a few builders, so I'm not sure it will help improve the result any.
Anyway, back on topic. I solved Mayhem 18 100% using only 15 builders. If there are any improvements please let me know.
I've finally managed Mayhem 2 100% with only builders (attached). The minimum number of builders should be the same solution, except for using a climber at the end
Set up a blocker when he walks a few paces. It can be freed by bashing underneath.
...so which were the other two? All Mayhem levels are filled in in the OP. I'm guessing you did this yourself, but that means we don't know which levels really remain still to be looked at. I'm guessing one of the ones you filled in was Mayhem 29, because the discussion of the max% solution on the old forums indicates it requires 5 blockers, not 6.It was levels 10 and 29, which was where I needed some help (I only posted for help over there, rather than in the thread itself). For both those levels, I found replays just to see how many skills the solver used, and then put it on the OP. Anyway, all the Original level results have been placed on the OP, but I'll still be looking for a fewer builder solution to Mayhem 30.
As for Oh No, how is Wicked 6 possible with 100%?
Left side: 2 to cross each of three gaps, 1 to get past the unclimbable part at the foot of the mountain
Right side: 4 to get over the one-way wall, 4 to cross the water
This solution requires a certain trick that allows the left-side lemmings to complete the right side's path to the exit.
The first lemming builds up to the platform to the right of the entrance (this can be reached with one builder) while the crowd is held back with a digger and a builder (another builder is used later to release them). The leader walks across the platform and drops by the lizard, past his trigger area. He can then get through the tree using two miners. Once you're past the tree, the rest of the path to the exit can be cleared with just 3 builders and 2 bashers.
1) One of the bashers can be replaced with a miner+builder. This gets bashers down to 1.
2) The second miner at the tree can be replaced with a builder. This gets miners down to 1.
3) Instead of a digger and two builders, crowd control can be done with two blockers, two miners, and two builders. Combined with #2 (which saves a miner), this eliminates the digger.
4)Crowd control can also be done with digger, a miner, a blocker and a builder. This gets builders down to 5.
Wicked 15 -- now that I'm actually playing this in Lemmix, it looks like my previous result may be incorrect. It seems that in the original game you have to place 6 bricks under the hatch to make the fall safe, and that can only be done using a clever trick seen in this video
Minimac, you've updated Wicked 15 with no basher, but your result still reads "1 blocker" instead of "1 floater".
Wicked 14 is surprisingly tough for such an easy level but these two replays, between them, reduce the skills to 2 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner.
The first lemming mines and then blocks very shortly after hitting the bottom floor. Send two climbers up the wall; the first one blocks shortly before he drops down to the exit. The other climber mines as soon as he turns around, and he should be just low enough to free the crowd. The right blocker is freed with a basher, and the left blocker is freed with a miner+basher.
The first lemming mines and then blocks very shortly after hitting the bottom floor. Send a climber up the wall; he builds such that he hits his head on the hook at the bottom of the chain by the edge of the platform (he must do this in such a way that the fall distance to the exit is not extended). He mines toward the crowd, and the crowd builds up to meet the miner's tunnel. The blocker is freed with a miner+builder.
The first lemming digs; the second blocks in the dig pit. He will be released by the digger's next stroke, but the digger has been turned and can now bash left.Therefore, the result for this level is the same, 3 builders.
As a starting-point on Blizzard 13, I offer 9 builders, 1 basher, 1 miner, 1 digger. Skills are very limited, so this may be the only way to do it....
Mayhem
23: 1 basher, 12 builders
26: 4 bombers, 1 blocker, 19 builders
Here's a replay that isn't optimised at all, but shows 100% can be achieved.
Wicked 15 -- now that I'm actually playing this in Lemmix, it looks like my previous result may be incorrect. It seems that in the original game you have to place 6 bricks under the hatch to make the fall safe, and that can only be done using a clever trick seen in this video