Post by: weirdybeardy on November 20, 2009, 02:31:19 PM
Sorry if this has been covered already...
Post by: Minim on November 20, 2009, 03:53:07 PM
It was on a computer that my uncle had a long time ago. Unfortunately I didn't have ONML but the original one I had had a couple of different tunes. They've changed the music for the special levels compared to the Amiga version. I loved their "MENACE" and the "Shadow of the Beast 2" especially.
I don't have a downloadable of any tunes, although I have completely memorised one of them which was different to any other version. If you want to hear it you'll have to wait, because I would need to get my recording equipment up and running before I can play and attach it..
Post by: Mr. K on November 21, 2009, 12:18:00 AM
UPDATE: In the mean time, I came across this youtube video as a little taster for those unfamiliar with this soundtrack, as I was.
An interesting observation: I noticed that while these sound like they're probably using the same instrument set as the Amiga version (although the drums sound a little different), I've noticed the arrangements themselves are just like the ones on Master System / Game Gear. Or the other way around.
UPDATE #2: Here's ONML. Well, low quality and with some dude talking over it, but you can kinda hear the music. Wow, is it completely different?
Post by: weirdybeardy on November 21, 2009, 01:16:37 PM
So the issue is not being unable to listen to the music, but wondering if they're out there as MP3s so I can "apply" them to my PC Lemmings set up with Lemmix and Lemmini and all that jazz. I wouldn't know how to emulate it and record it or whatever.Some of the music on Acorn ONML takes me right back to my childhood. Works every time. The music on the Acorn version of L2:Tribes is pretty groovy also.
Post by: Pooty on November 21, 2009, 02:31:31 PM
An interesting observation: I noticed that while these sound like they're probably using the same instrument set as the Amiga version (although the drums sound a little different), I've noticed the arrangements themselves are just like the ones on Master System / Game Gear. Or the other way around.
There's a reason for that; the same person, Matt Furniss, did the songs for those three versions.
Post by: Mr. K on November 21, 2009, 10:41:16 PM
Here's a recording from Just Dig. If the crackling isn't too much of a problem I can continue making these.
Weirdybeardy, perhaps you could record your Acorn's output and compare. If it has a speaker/headphone jack, which I assume it does, just run a normal old audio cable from there to the mic in on your PC, and record using Audacity or a similar program.
Post by: ccexplore on November 23, 2009, 02:10:46 PM
What really surprised and delighted me though is Acorn ONML. Instead of the 6 arguably mediocre tunes we get on Amiga, DOS, etc., you actually get a total of 25 new tunes that are in the same vein as the original Lemmings--a few originals together with many familiar music from either classical or "folk tunes" (for lack of a better term, but you know what I mean, things like "London Bridge is Falling Down" in Lemmings 1). Now that's cool, and definitely what one would expect the music for ONML to be--nay, should be.
On my home machine with the emulator, I didn't notice any crackling, but unfortunately I did notice some skips every now and then, which indicates the emulator's not quite fast enough on that computer to handle everything in time. If I have time I'll see if I can try it out on a few other computers available to me, and hopefully there's one that's good enough for recording the music. Of course, I think I first want some confirmation from weirdybeardy or others who own the actual computer to tell me whether the music from the emulator is close enough to the real thing to worth recording for.
Post by: Pooty on November 23, 2009, 08:47:48 PM
Post by: ccexplore on November 23, 2009, 09:35:47 PM
Another thing I haven't found anywhere on the web so far is a list of level codes for Acorn Lemmings and ONML. I did find on GameFAQs the level codes for Lynx Lemmings, and they look similar enough in style (yeah, they're not the random jumble of letters you see in most ports) to what little I've seen in Acorn ONML that I think they might apply to Acorn Lemmings as well. I don't have a chance yet to test them out though until I'm back home. And I didn't find any Lynx ONML level codes either, so no luck yet with Acorn ONML.
Post by: ccexplore on November 24, 2009, 10:15:37 AM
I still haven't found a way to pause with the keyboard though, if there's even one. I pretty much just mesh all the keys on my keyboard, but no pausing whatsoever happened. :(
But at least I have a quicker way to get to all the Acorn music now, all 22 (yes, they have 18 instead of 17 "standard level" tunes) from Lemmings and 25 from ONML. 8-)
[edit: speaking of the codes, check out the ones from Crazy 12-Wild 2 :D]
[edit: updated link for Acorn ONML codes, old one was defunct]
Post by: Pooty on November 24, 2009, 05:30:25 PM
Post by: chaos_defrost on November 24, 2009, 07:03:32 PM
Post by: GigaLem on November 24, 2009, 08:21:12 PM
HELPIVEGOTFOURTYMOREPASSWORDTOTHINKUPANDIAMRUNNINGOUTOFIDEASRATHERFASTSOPLEASEIFYOUAREABITUPSETBYALLTHISTHENIMQUITESORRYWoo!
hes under a lot of presure
Post by: weirdybeardy on November 25, 2009, 09:39:50 AM
On Acorn ONML, the code is "FIDDLECODE".
If the emulation is authentic, then these cheat codes should be included.
Post by: ccexplore on November 25, 2009, 10:24:56 AM
Post by: covox on December 01, 2009, 03:09:30 PM
Post by: covox on December 02, 2009, 04:48:27 AM
On the plus side, the music data appears to be stored as
Post by: ccexplore on December 02, 2009, 05:51:28 AM
On the plus side, the music data appears to be stored asuncompressed SoundTracker mods all lumped togetherone giant SoundTracker mod plus a lookup table to indicate where each song starts, so it should be trivial to write a script which dumps the music
Cool. I had a brief look at the data but didn't recognize the format right away since I'm not too familiar with MOD formats. This new information would save me from having to record them manually as MP3s.
Post by: ccexplore on December 02, 2009, 11:41:40 AM
For those who don't want to bother but still curious about the Acorn ONML music, here's a quick sample of tunes I recognized from its set of 26 tunes: Three Blind Mice, William Tell, Greensleeves,
Post by: ccexplore on December 02, 2009, 01:34:42 PM
[edit: Since weirdybeardy mentioned something about using the MODs for Lemmix, I might look into creating a version of ONML Lemmix clone with the Acorn MODs here, later.]
Post by: weirdybeardy on December 02, 2009, 04:13:15 PM
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Since weirdybeardy mentioned something about using the MODs for Lemmix, I might look into creating a version of ONML Lemmix clone with the Acorn MODs here, later.
ccexplore, you are the best.
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Intriguing. While I don't actually have an original Archimedes, I -do- have a whitebox StrongARM machine sitting in my spares cupboard which runs RiscOS 4 and MarsQuake pretty well. This thread has motivated me to hook it up and throw Lemmings/ONML at it.
MarsQuake! I loved that game!
There are quite a few Acorn-exclusive titles that evoke childhood for me... *nostalgic sigh*
Post by: geoo on December 02, 2009, 06:50:50 PM
Upon some research it seems that I found it first here: http://amp.dascene.net/detail.php?detail=modules&view=1885
Does anyone know where it originates from? Tim Wright was also author to the music of Shadow of the Beast II and III, but this song isn't in the soundtrack of these. The name indicates that it is somehow Lemmings related; was it created prior to Acorn Lemmings and Matt Furniss used it as leftover?
Post by: ccexplore on December 02, 2009, 09:58:26 PM
The Beast tune sounded very familiar to me, but I couldn't track down where I listened to it first until now: I have a 'Tim Wright' directory with various modules, and amongst these also this tune, with the name "LEMMINGS (extras)".
Upon some research it seems that I found it first here: http://amp.dascene.net/detail.php?detail=modules&view=1885
Does anyone know where it originates from? Tim Wright was also author to the music of Shadow of the Beast II and III, but this song isn't in the soundtrack of these. The name indicates that it is somehow Lemmings related; was it created prior to Acorn Lemmings and Matt Furniss used it as leftover?
Actually, the download of the MOD from that website shows that this MOD seems to have the exact same size as the "AcornLemmingsMusic_Specials.mod" I ripped from Acorn Lemmings. I haven't done a full binary comparison or even listen to it yet (partly because I'm not on my home computer right now), but I'll bet you that despite being misattributed to Tim Wright on the website and suggested to originate from Amiga, the MOD you are referring to is actually none other than what's ripped from the Acorn game, and contains all 4 "special" music. The labeing of that MOD as "LEMMINGS (extra)" is also telling because that's basically the internal name in the MOD I ripped from Acorn.
Post by: Mr. K on December 02, 2009, 10:06:04 PM
Is that really Yakety Sax in the SuperLemming music?
Post by: geoo on December 02, 2009, 10:58:53 PM
Actually, the download of the MOD from that website shows that this MOD seems to have the exact same size as the "AcornLemmingsMusic_Specials.mod" I ripped from Acorn Lemmings. I haven't done a full binary comparison or even listen to it yet (partly because I'm not on my home computer right now), but I'll bet you that despite being misattributed to Tim Wright on the website and suggested to originate from Amiga, the MOD you are referring to is actually none other than what's ripped from the Acorn game, and contains all 4 "special" music. The labeing of that MOD as "LEMMINGS (extra)" is also telling because that's basically the internal name in the MOD I ripped from Acorn.In fact, you're right. Having only played this module in DeliPlayer, I didn't notice it contained more than that one track. Opening in foobar2k shows all 4 special tunes. I did a binary comparison and apart from a few bytes different scattered all over the file, the only other difference is that they overwrote the first bits of text containing the names of the first two samples (b2bal2, hihat5) with the supposed authors Tim Wright and Brian Johnston. In fact, the other Lemmings file from that site (merely named 'LEMMINGS') contains all the other Acorn tracks from Lemmings 1.
I guess this problem is solved then.
Post by: ccexplore on December 02, 2009, 11:32:56 PM
Is that really Yakety Sax in the SuperLemming music?
Took a trip to Wikipedia to figure out that Yakety Sax is indeed the same tune they used for comedic chase scenes in The Benny Hill Show (that's what I usually associate the tune with), and so yes, it really is Yakety Sax. Though definitely a uniquely arranged version of it, since they also threw in snippets of the opening of the Lemmings 2 Circus theme somewhere in the second half of the tune.
Given that Yakety Sax is typically used in TV and film for comedic chase scenes (particularly where the action is typically shown sped up from normal everyday speed), it is cunningly and humorously fitting for the sped-up SuperLemming level.
Post by: Mr. K on December 03, 2009, 12:17:26 AM
Is that really Yakety Sax in the SuperLemming music?
Took a trip to Wikipedia to figure out that Yakety Sax is indeed the same tune they used for comedic chase scenes in The Benny Hill Show (that's what I usually associate the tune with), and so yes, it really is Yakety Sax. Though definitely a uniquely arranged version of it, since they also threw in snippets of the opening of the Lemmings 2 Circus theme somewhere in the second half of the tune.
Given that Yakety Sax is typically used in TV and film for comedic chase scenes (particularly where the action is typically shown sped up from normal everyday speed), it is cunningly and humorously fitting for the sped-up SuperLemming level.
Kinda surprised it got in, though. I'm pretty sure it's still under copyright (its from the 60s), and I doubt they paid for the rights or anything just because of the reason Lemmings games used public domain content to begin with.
Also, it's interesting to note that the L2 Circus music (Entrance of the Gladiators) in there is in the original as well!
Post by: ccexplore on December 03, 2009, 12:50:59 AM
Post by: covox on December 03, 2009, 06:17:43 AM
If forced to choose at knifepoint, I'd take the 6 standard ONML tracks over the 16 new ones, but it's still a cool find nevertheless. In particular, the ones with more than four looped bars of music are pretty good.
Post by: ccexplore on December 03, 2009, 07:38:03 AM
If forced to choose at knifepoint, I'd take the 6 standard ONML tracks over the 16 new ones, but it's still a cool find nevertheless. In particular, the ones with more than four looped bars of music are pretty good.
Definitely one of my major complains too, that the Acorn music (both for Lemmings and ONML) tends to be too short. Perhaps they're trying to cut down on cost by making everything fit on one disk? I guess it has to be, as otherwise it isn't clear why they'd bother to redo the ones for Lemmings when it turns out the music is MOD-based just like the Amiga. Then again, we're talking about a development team that apparently feels the need to spend the time creating 220 levelcodes not only by hand, but actually also trying to make it all English and even fit with the level numbers (at least for a while).
Post by: ccexplore on December 03, 2009, 12:03:38 PM
The regular cycle has 18 instead of 17 tunes (#14 is the one unique to Acorn). And of course you have the 4 tunes for the special graphics levels. [Beast 1 and Beast 2 are
]One interesting thing about the Acorn Lemmings MODs is, since they are still just arrangements of the same tunes in all the other ports, we already know what the tunes should sound like in their full length. So it would be possible to extend the Acorn Lemmings MODs accordingly, remedying the complain about length for many of them. Maybe something I'd look into over the holidays.
Post by: GuyPerfect on December 03, 2009, 08:08:19 PM
One thing I'm noticing in these tunes, though, is effective use of bass. It harmonizes with the rest of the music very well, which isn't something you find very often. Usually, bass just matches whatever the current chord happens to be and isn't very interesting at all. Not the case with these ones.
Post by: weirdybeardy on December 05, 2009, 02:21:30 PM
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One thing I'm noticing in these tunes, though, is effective use of bass. It harmonizes with the rest of the music very well, which isn't something you find very often.
This, in my humble (and biased) opinion, is why the Acorn music is mostly superior to other versions that exist, even the original Amiga music.
However, the Acorn version of Lemmings 2 is a different story...