CE 1.0.1
NL 12.14
Clear Physics Mode shows the silhouettes of all gadgets in rotating colors. There is a global timer, and the color of the silhouettes is that timer modulo N in the circle of fully-saturated colors (red, orange, yellow, ..., cyan, pink, red).
Enough with that! I use Clear Physics Mode when details matter, and I don't want this distracting color clashing.
In 1.0.1 Clear Physics Mode, lemmings are dark-blue (0, 0, FF). Instead, make lemmings medium-blue (80, 80, FF). That's easier to see than dark blue (this alone will be an improvement!) and it will remain sufficiently different from the cyan athletes (0, FF, FF).
Now you can make gadgets dark green (0, 80, 0) and you won't step on any toes.
Pick other colors than what I propose, I'm happy to try other choices.
-- Simon
I personally like the colour cycling, but can see why it may be annoying or counterintuitive to some users. Making it optional is probably the best way to go.
This is still annoying. We are in Clear physics Mode often enough, and we zoom into the levels because we are interested in finnicky details. The glaring cycling colors cover huge parts of the screen. So hard on the eyes. All while it's hard to see lemmings.
For the record, Proxima agrees that this is annoying and distracting.
I still recommend dark green (0, 0x80, 0) for the shapes of the gadgets and a medium blue (0x80, 0x80, 0xFF) for lemmings without permanent abilities.
I don't know what you like about the color cycling. If it weren't for you, I'd recommend to rip the entire color-cycling code from the codebase. Good riddance. Are you sure that you like it and why you like it? E.g., I understand {your preference for the never-deleting insert mode} more than I can get behind {your like of this color-cycling in light of all these visibility problems}.
-- Simon
Quote from: Simon on June 16, 2026, 06:39:09 PMI still recommend dark green (0, 0x80, 0) for the shapes of the gadgets and a medium blue (0x80, 0x80, 0xFF) for lemmings without permanent abilities.
What about lemmings
with permanent abilities? Keep it the same as it is now?
Quote from: Simon on June 16, 2026, 06:39:09 PMI don't know what you like about the color cycling ... Are you sure that you like it and why you like it?
3 reasons:
1) It guarantees visibility at some point in the cycle, regardless of any other factors (40%)
2) It's already there. I don't have to do anything (30%)
3) It looks kinda cool IMHO 8-) (30%)
But OK, let's make it optional in 1.1.2, with your suggested colours as the static alternatives.
Quote from: WillLem on June 16, 2026, 09:00:00 PMWhat about lemmings with permanent abilities? Keep it the same as it is now?
Yes, I think you can keep permanent-ability lemmings as they are, light cyan (0, 0xFF, 0xFF). The idea behind the medium blue for plain lemmings was: Medium blue is noticeabley darker than light cyan, but both colors still contrast well with anything really dark for the gadget silhouettes.
If you happen to release CE with static physics colors by Sunday morning, I'll playtest it on the planned livestream (Sunday, June 21, 13:00 UTC) and I'll prompt the chatters for opinions. But you do you. If you ship other bugfixes, I'll playtest those fixes instead. And I'll have a few more topics to post anyway, based on handwritten notes. These topics will trickle in at a slow rate. When I write a topic, I want to present an argument and be able to react to your questions.
Quote from: WillLem on June 16, 2026, 09:00:00 PM3 reasons:
Thanks for the reasons, at least I don't have to write long essays about human perception then. At most, I might eventually argue to make the static setting the default. But that's for after the user testing.
-- Simon
@Simon
How's this?
(https://i.ibb.co/nMcVzs0H/image.png)
L->R: Normal, Selected (cursor is overlaid to show this), Climber
The blue you suggested was a tad too close to the purple for selected lemmings, so I made it a shade darker. The green entrance hatch is static (non-cycling), with the option to toggle on colour cycling for those that still want it.
Quote from: WillLem on June 17, 2026, 01:25:54 AMThe blue you suggested was a tad too close to the purple
My medium blue was also too close to the grey of the earth (diggable terrain), hmm.
Quote from: WillLem on June 17, 2026, 01:25:54 AMHow's this?
You chose (0x44, 0x44, 0xFF) for the nonpermanent blue.
Now the medium green from the hatch will clash with your nonpermanent blue. Lemmings overlapping gadgets will be hard on the eyes.
An immediate fix is to darken the gadget green from (0, 0x80, 0) to (0, 0x40, 0). Even 0x50 would be too light. At first glance, I don't mind the pretty dark gadgets at 0x40. I can playtest and report.
A more elaborate fix is to move the blues/cyans/purples/... around to allow 0x50 or 0x60 on the gadgets, but I don't have time today to investigate. It's not obvious what's best.
The main guideline is: The most common colors will be background black, earth grey, steel grey, nonpermanent blue, gadget green, and trigger area pink. Those should be clearly different from each other. It's more important to {distinguish lemmings from gadget silhouettes} than it is to {distinguish gadget silhouettes from the black background}. Reason: The silhouette becomes less important after you know that it's
some exit, or
some trap, ... The trigger area is more important than the silhouette.
-- Simon
Water trigger areas are bright magenta, with a darker shade used when they overlap terrain. I feel we should do a similar thing with hatches: bright normally (and maybe a bit more yellow to make them more distinct from lemmings), and darker when they overlap terrain.
Quickly guessing and trying some round numbers, (0x80, 0xC0, 0) and (0x48, 0x6C, 0) might be about right?
Quote from: Simon on June 17, 2026, 05:31:58 AMYou chose (0x44, 0x44, 0xFF) for the nonpermanent blue.
Now the medium green from the hatch will clash with your nonpermanent blue. Lemmings overlapping gadgets will be hard on the eyes.
An immediate fix is to darken the gadget green from (0, 0x80, 0) to (0, 0x40, 0).
Darkened the green to 004400 as suggested.
The lems are also lighter (77-77-FF), with selected lems moved to (OR FF-FF-00) which is almost white. I've also included zombies in this screenshot (on the lower path):
(https://i.ibb.co/JR49Whkm/image.png)
Better?
Quote from: Proxima on June 17, 2026, 02:53:53 PMWater trigger areas are bright magenta, with a darker shade used when they overlap terrain. I feel we should do a similar thing with hatches: bright normally (and maybe a bit more yellow to make them more distinct from lemmings), and darker when they overlap terrain.
This wouldn't be trivial to implement tbh. What would be the benefit of being able to see the outline in the case of hatches (which have a 1px trigger point)?
Quote from: WillLem on June 18, 2026, 11:00:59 PMThis wouldn't be trivial to implement tbh. What would be the benefit of being able to see the outline in the case of hatches (which have a 1px trigger point)?
Currently, when an object is buried in terrain, then in clear physics mode you can only see the trigger area -- vastly better than nothing, of course, but it means you have to mouse over it to tell what type of object it is, and you don't get to have an overview of the level where you can see everything at once. Wouldn't it be nice to still be able to see object outlines?
Even if you don't want to do that, I stand by my preference for light hatches (and objects generally) and dark lemmings.
Quote from: Proxima on June 18, 2026, 11:21:37 PMit means you have to mouse over it to tell what type of object it is, and you don't get to have an overview of the level where you can see everything at once.
I see. OK, I'll take a look at what's possible.
Quote from: Proxima on June 18, 2026, 11:21:37 PMEven if you don't want to do that, I stand by my preference for light hatches (and objects generally) and dark lemmings.
It would probably be fairly easy at this point to abstract the values for {fixed gadget colour} and {all lemming colours} to a text file which can then be user-edited.
That might be the best solution here.
The following Clear Physics Mode shades can now be user-specified:
$LEMMINGS
NORMAL $FF7777FF
ATHLETE $FF00FFFF
NEUTRAL $FFAA00FF
ZOMBIE $FF777744
SELECTED $FFFFFF77
$END
$GADGETS
SHAPE $FF004400
TRIGGER $FFFF00FF
$END
Note that "SHAPE" in the GADGETS section will only be applied when Color Cycle is off. TRIGGER is automatically darkened when overlapping, and to match the usual checkerboard pattern.
There is no need to specify shades for Zombie-Athletes, Selected-Neutrals, etc. Let's keep it clean and simple.
Quote from: WillLem on June 18, 2026, 11:00:59 PMDarkened the green to 004400 as suggested.
The lems are also lighter (77-77-FF)
Better?
Yes, looks good! Happy to playtest it. Thanks!
Light lemmings make more sense to me than dark lemmings. But I haven't tried to guess Proxima's reasons for dark lemmings. I'll let you know if I find counterarguments to light lemmings in the future.
Dark-green gadgets against the black air are still easily visible to me at your (0, 0x44, 0). I have no answer for buried gadgets.
-- Simon
Colour-cycling is now optional.
Implemented in NLCEPlayer commit 49cfd1c.
Static CPM colours can be user-specified in ce-clearphysicscolours.nxmi. See above post (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?msg=109084) for details.
Implemented in NLCEPlayer commit 1359ae5.
This can now be considered resolved, then. Users can choose whichever colours they wish for gadgets, trigger areas, and the various lemming states, whilst in CPM.
I've tested this today, immediately after CE 1.1.2's release. Every other bug can wait until tomorrow's livestream.
Yes, everything works. The player must, in the user options, uncheck the color cycling. Gadgets will now be dark green. And if the player doesn't like the dark green etc., he can edit data/ce-clearphysicscolours.nxmi for gadget and lemming colors.
I got exactly what I had emphasized, and it's released well in time for the stream tomorrow. In hindsight, this bug bothered me during play the most. The (overall more important) data loss on settings import is also fixed, so WillLem didn't even have to deviate from the most sensible order.
There are smaller things left to discuss for later. E.g., should ce-clearphysicscolours.nxmi sit in user/ (we expect the user to edit it) instead of in data/ (here it gets overwritten by next release), or should color cycling be default. But none of that is urgent. It's better for me to have the immediate dark green available.
WillLem, this was an excellent way to handle your user feedback. It works, I see no bugs, but I mean this especially from the non-technical angle. You guessed that this bothered me and Proxima the most, and we had no workaround.
-- Simon
I would like to learn Proxima's reason for why he prefers darker lemmings. I know that lemmings at (0x80, 0x80, 0xFF) become similarly light as the earth (some light grey). Is the lemming-to-earth contrast your reason?
When I know more, I can start recommending better defaults for the CPM color config file.
The meaning of the bool option is: Ignore what's configured in the dedicated CPM options file, and use this prefixed configuration that you can't choose by editing that file. That leads to the idea: Ditch the option and instead make "cycling" a keyword that can appear directly in the CPM color config file. After all, the behavior is either-or, and now the way to configure it will be clearly either-or, too, not a product of 1. bool, 2. color. You can print comments into the file to explain "cycling".
If you keep the bool option nonetheless, consider to default it to no color-cycling. Reason: That's most helpful for new users who won't look into the options. WillLem can then activate the option for his cycling.
I still think that the CPM color config file should go into user/.
Should I make 3 fresh topics for these 3 sub-issues (default colors, how to choose cycling, location of the config file)?
-- Simon
Quote from: Simon on June 28, 2026, 12:07:01 AMDitch the option and instead make "cycling" a keyword that can appear directly in the CPM color config file ... You can print comments into the file to explain "cycling".
This is a good idea. The bool option does seem a bit wonky as it's unclear exactly what will cycle when the option is on.
Should all elements be allowed to cycle (Gadgets, Lemmings, Triggers, etc)?
Quote from: Simon on June 28, 2026, 12:07:01 AMIf you keep the bool option nonetheless, consider to default it to no color-cycling.
OK, if we keep the option let's toggle it off by default. I probably prefer your idea of keeping all CPM color concerns to the .nxmi though; let's focus on that going forward.
Quote from: Simon on June 28, 2026, 12:07:01 AMI still think that the CPM color config file should go into user/.
Agreed, this does make the most sense.
Quote from: Simon on June 28, 2026, 12:07:01 AMShould I make 3 fresh topics for these 3 sub-issues (default colors, how to choose cycling, location of the config file)?
No need, this topic is sufficient for all concerns. I've downgraded the status of this topic from
[✓] (resolved) to
[+] (in progress).
Quote from: WillLem on June 28, 2026, 08:24:02 PMShould all elements be allowed to cycle (Gadgets, Lemmings, Triggers, etc)?
I wager that this cycling is mainly for yourself.
If I were to implement it, I might allow it purely because the alternative would be to special-case something (gadgets would be special). I like to avoid that. Implementing it saves a user-visible explanation, even if it's only "for gadgets, you can also put" instead of "you can also put" in the comment in the config file. If we don't make it clear, we'll eventually get a bug report.
On the other hand, I don't need it, and if you don't need it, chances are that nobody needs it. Do what makes yourself feel best. I don't know how it looks in the code. If it's nasty in the code ...
-- Simon
Quote from: Simon on June 29, 2026, 10:45:35 PMI wager that this cycling is mainly for yourself.
Fair shout, but chances are that there are others who also like the effect, otherwise it would never have been implemented this way in the first place. It's possible that a colour couldn't be decided upon, so it was a case of 'let's just use all colours and cycle them!' - namida will probably know more about how the effect first made it into the game.
Quote from: Simon on June 29, 2026, 10:45:35 PMIf I were to implement it, I might allow it purely because the alternative would be to special-case something (gadgets would be special).
Agreed, it should probably just be allowed for everything. If we make it so that users must configure it themselves via the .nxmi, chances are that they'll choose to use it for only one (and not all) of the elements, if at all. And, if they do wish for CPM to be a psychedelic mess, they are free to make it so!
Quote from: Simon on June 29, 2026, 10:45:35 PMI don't know how it looks in the code. If it's nasty in the code ...
It's actually very neat in the code! I refactored the few lines into its own method, so that it can easily be used for anything we wish. Even before that though, it wasn't messy or bothersome at all.
Option removed.
Colours can now be cycled by typing 'CYCLE' into the relevant field in 'ce-clearphysicscolours.nxmi', or by choosing a fully transparent colour (i.e. $00------).
Implemented in NLCEPlayer commit 7b965a4.
Also, the .nxmi is now called 'NLCEClearPhysicsColors.nxmi' and is stored in 'settings' rather than 'data'.
Implemented in NLCEPlayer commit 1a888bb.
If you haven't already, just make sure that the CYCLE option is properly documented if it needs to be set by manually editing config files. If .nxmi files support comments, that would probably be the best place to mention it as being a valid option for the color.
Quote from: Simon on June 29, 2026, 10:45:35 PMOn the other hand, I don't need it, and if you don't need it, chances are that nobody needs it.
Given that it's already in the code and doesn't seem to be an issue, I'm not convinced culling it makes sense -- if nothing else, it's an extra option for anyone that might need it for accessibility reasons.
The cycling would be more useful if CPM wasn't all-or-nothing, for example to highlight steel, or show trigger areas, while otherwise rendering the rest of the level normally.
To be clear, cycling will always be an option.
It's now accessible via settings/NLCEClearPhysicsColors.nxmi and will remain so indefinitely.
The default is for the colours to remain static following Simon and Proxima's comments, but perhaps we should revert to the status quo as the default (so, gadget shapes cycle, everything else is static)?
Your silence = the colors will be static by default (and can still be set to 'cycle' via the .nxmi)