All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix or Lix Player!
Lix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7l40h44g5zboao4ckj0vp/Contest_30_Lix.zip?rlkey=lzqxzihv9de4ew2zy9rz5731o&st=9iw6xu7b&dl=1
The Lix levels will then be in the single/Contests/Contest_30 folder!
NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/507i2isjjep39z803nvc7/Contest_30_NL.zip?rlkey=aiwconmf54fkp9yy8a6p5afz7&st=olb9bvf4&dl=1
There are currently some styles required that are not yet in the standard tileset collection and need to be added manually. This post should link to them: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5684.msg102427#msg102427
edit by kaywhyn (6/18/2024) - namida has now updated the styles manager so that the tilesets Icho linked to above are now included in the standard library collection. If you want, you can still grab them via the link above, or you can download them through the styles manager in the NL player. Either way works.
Music (NeoLemmix): https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bod9qdsercvf4on8mrsvv/Contest_30_Music.zip?rlkey=uoy3hty24ntrjby2z6n7uyyge&st=kpdzd449&dl=1
Rule 1 Levels
Armani's "Guts Over Fear" (V1)
Crane's "High Striker" (V3)
Eric Derkovits's "Mosaic Lemmings" (V2)
IchoTolot's "Comm-Link Online!" (V2)
JRT's "One Thing At A Time II" (V1)
kaywhyn's "Snow Way!" (V5)
Rule 2 Levels
geoo's "Cycle Decomposition" (V1)
Armani's "Very Particular Set of Skills" (V2)
Eric Derkovits's "March of the Neutrals" (V5)
IchoTolot's "Set To Kill!" (V3)
JRT's "Don't Bash It Before You Dig It" (V4)
kaywhyn's "The Incredible Doom Machine" (V8)
Rule 3 Levels
geoo's "Misaligned" (V1)
Armani's "Cheddar-Crusted Hash Browns" (V4)
Crane's "Tomb Raiders" (V9)
Eric Derkovits's "Neither here nor there" (V3)
IchoTolot's "Mr Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore" (V3)
JRT's "The Epic of Gilgamesh" (V1)
kaywhyn's "Always Remember" (V13)
You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6655.0
Playing Phase will be closed on 8th of August!
Updates will close on 5th of August!
Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.
Link to update topic (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6759.0)
Just a heads up to everyone, Icho and I will be trying out a Dropbox feature which if it works, I will be able to provide him some assistance with updating the contest collection pack and making sure it's up-to-date. This is just to lend him a helping hand with that, but for all intents and purposes, Icho is still the main host of contests :) I'll just be co-assisting, again if the feature works out.
Also, I had a quick look-see of the contest levels, the R2's (my ruleset) in particular, and wow, they look great! :thumbsup: However, @JRT your R2 is fine, but it is missing the bomber skill, which needs to be included and is one of the criteria for my ruleset:
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6655.0 (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6655.0)
Darn I missed that one - @JRT Simply make an update for your level so it requires a bomber. I will leave it in for now, but to be eligible for the voting an update is required.
Though a bit cheeky, since JRT's level requires 100%, can 2 bombers be added and it still abide by the rules, if not the spirit of them?!
All rightie, some trivia for my levels :)
- All 3 of my levels this time were made with tilesets that I have never made a level with before.
- Except for R2, my levels use the classic 8 skills only, though for R1 it's not required but is for R3 of course being an absolute must due to being Icho's ruleset ;)
R1: - Snow level, so with this, I have now used all the L1 and ONML tilesets at least once :laugh: Also IMO one of the more clever titles I've managed to come up with and maybe the reaction you might have in seeing the level -
Snow Way! (you know, pun on "no way!") :laugh:
- The music track is another one from an online game called Gunbound. It's another one of my favorites, along with "Sudden Death," the latter of which I used for my level "Lemmings vs the Jolly Roger Pirates" from the previous LDC #29
R2:- "
The Incredible Doom Machine" - reference to The Incredible Machine series of puzzle games, or even the hypothetical machine. For the former, this one in particular is a reference to the game "The Incredible Toon Machine" (link to my LP: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJsv7YPNitFE0cQ2b5OeKJZV (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJsv7YPNitFE0cQ2b5OeKJZV))
- The track comes from The Incredible Machine 2 and is the first music you hear when you first start up the game.
R3:- "Always Remember" - Kind of a reference to the first level of the Classic tribe of L2, Do you Remember? Other than that, the design and solution have nothing to do with that level :P
- As Icho's level is a reference to Classic 2, I originally wanted to do something similar but with either Classic 1 or Classic 3 for my R3, but later on I remembered the level ideas I wanted for my own level for the ruleset :laugh:
Quote from: Crane on June 08, 2024, 11:15:45 PM
Though a bit cheeky, since JRT's level requires 100%, can 2 bombers be added and it still abide by the rules, if not the spirit of them?!
As this is my ruleset, sorry, but for R2 at least one bomber skill needs to be used in the solution. From the ruleset in the LDC #30 topic and I have bolded the first part of the second bullet point:
Quote from: LDC #30 topic
Rule 2: Tools of Mass Destruction (kaywhyn)
- Use bashers, miners, diggers, laserers(NL) and fencers(NL). (You can use just 1 of these skills, any 2, any 3, any 4 or all 5 is also fine)
- Use bombers | For Lix: Use imploders
- Don't use any other skill
So, sadly the level's save requirement in JRT's level needs to be changed up accordingly to account for at least one loss. I should also add that using the bomber skill was always a criteria for R2, so it's not like I adjusted this bomber criteria and said that it's optional at any time during the submission phase ;)
Needless to say, my ruleset is quite similar to R1 of LDC #27, except the difference in that one is it's constructive skills (1, 2, or all 3 of those skill types are fine) + bomber skill only.
Here's the levels I've solved so far (other than my own).
Rule 1One Thing At A Time II
Simple to work out, but very fiddly to execute - basically no two lemmings can land on the final narrow platform during the same frame.
March of the Neutrals
Looks quite intimidating at first, but if you just go to it, then things fall into place quite quickly. Possibly a backroute though as I have a lot of tools left over.
Don't Bash It Before You Dig It
Quite deceptive and the title is a sneaky fib! Ultimately quite simple though once you look past the fluff.
The Incredible Doom Machine
Much like the final level of T.I.M. "Up up and away...", it looks intimidating but not all that difficult. A bit precise in places but it's fun trying to save as many as possible... unless I backrouted it.
Neither here nor there
That was absolutely evil! You often don't realise you made a mistake until the very end when you are one builder short or one of the climbers goes off to the right into the water.
The Epic of Gilgamesh
This one is unfortunately very tedious and painfully precise (I used all 89 builders) and had to rewind several times because of misplaced bridges preventing the final digger from getting all of the way through).
Always Remember
Feels like a backroute as I had 2 Builders left over. I had to do some trickery to make sure the final lemming exited on time.
I feel like I'm close to solving "Guts Over Fear", but I am always a Basher or a Shimmier short! The secret is so close, just out of reach! Same with "Particular Set Of Skills"... my timing is still off.
Just completed "Snow Way!" and "Mr. Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore" too.
Snow Way!
Level title is very fitting and very "Oh No! More Lemmings!"-esque. Sometimes you just have to trust the timing! I did save a Climber though.
Mr. Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore
A neat little puzzle that tests your skill management. I possibly backrouted it as I had a Blocker and Basher left over, but the extra saved lemming was due to a Basher/Blocker trick
"Mosaic Lemmings" solved.
Spoiler
This really gives a "How the Hell do you solve this?" air, and even when you get over the initial stunned confusion at where to even start, given you only have 3 destructive skills, there are a lot of red herrings and incorrect combinations in the tools you have left. This is a good and intimidating puzzle, even if some bits of terrain feel a bit janky and uneven in places (like you can't easily tell that the 6 regular lemmings are Sliders, and the fact that some of the neutrals are Swimmers and Disarmers is unclear because the icon is camouflaged against the trapdoor graphic), but I understand that it needs to stop Shimmiers and Jumpers.
Also, I love how the disarmed snake trap has a spanner lodged in its mouth!
P.S. When I worked out what I had to do to solve "Neither here nor there", these were my literal thoughts! (5:14) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua6pbz3ROvQ&t=5m14s
All rightie, I'm happy to report that the Dropbox feature Icho and I are trying out works great, and so moving forward he and I will switch off on updating the contest collection pack from time to time. What I'm thinking is he can probably do it one week, I do it the next, etc. For the first updates, however, I will do what Icho did for the previous LDC, which is I will wait for about a week in case more updates come from the other entrants before doing so. Therefore, though I have already posted updates to my levels in the update topic only a day after the playing phase has started, I won't update the contest pack at this time. Instead, I will wait for a week in case more updates from others come in the meantime before updating the contest collection pack ;) That way, I won't have to make small updates to the collection pack every time and instead can include all updates from everyone all in one go.
@Crane
Thanks for playing my levels! :thumbsup: They're all backroutes but luckily were easy fixes.
R1 - For V2, just added OWAs on the other pillar where the exit is.
R2 - For V2, added some steel where the exit is.
R3 - For V2, I modified and extended the walkway in the bottom right area. I actually had to think for a while on how to fix your backroute for my R3 even though I had plenty of options there (not OWAs, pickups, or buttons though, as these objects are forbidden for the ruleset, keep that in mind! ;))
If you fancy giving my updates a try, great. No worries if you end up not doing so, though. There's always people like Icho and Armani to break levels and to resolve until solutions are intended/acceptable :laugh:
Oooohhhh, yes I appear to not have read rule 2 properly.
I think best for now I withdraw the level, if I can fix it maybe I resubmit?
@JRT
Simply post a V2 of your level in the update topic that fixes the problem. We will include it in the pack shortly after that.
I will leave the current version in the pack for now, but it won't be eligible for voting this way.
@Crane
Your solution is mostly fine, but yes due to that trick it saves skills and a lemming. It is not totally broken and I tend to accept it even if that timing heavy trick is not required. I will try one fix though that maybe could do something here.
I really like Neither Here Nor There.
Here is a replay for V2.
Just played the V2 of Snow Day. Here is the replay for that, I'm guessing its the intended solution?
Version 2 of "Mr. Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore" and "Always Remember".
Mr. Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore
Very similar to before, but I have to now use a Basher to truncate the bridge. If I don't use the Basher/Blocker trick, I will save just enough lemmings but have 2 Blockers left over.
Always Remember
Had a Climber and Builder left over.
Completed Eric's R1 and R2 levels again. Haven't got R3 yet... that reduction in 3 Builders is stumping me.
@JRT
R1 - Nope, that's not it. Quite far from intended, actually. For V3, the right OWAs were changed to down ones, while the left OWAs were changed to up ones. This is hopefully it now, but let's see!
@Crane
R3 - Ugh, I left another path available which I haven't really thought about that could be used to cheese the level :forehead: For V3, modified the terrain and added a flamethrower trap.
Completed "Snow Way!" - this feels intended.
Spoiler
I had a feeling that the "Denial" set-up played a role in this level, but couldn't figure out the exact configuration until now. Unfortunately the up and down arrows really give it away. I would suggest reverting back to the left and right arrows respectively if you can, possibly by modifying the terrain to the left of the left pillar slightly so a miner on the right-hand side of the pillar won't stop and will go through the floor and either splat or mine into an ice blower (thereby only saving 17 out of 18).
It helps if I remember the attachment!
crane's solutions to my Rule 1 and Rule 2 are good
JRT's solution to my Rule 3 is nowhere near the intended solution (Super weird solution), so updated it to V3 by adding more steel
played through all the lix levels + NeoLemmix's rule1 levels 8-)
Lix
Cycle Decomposition: Practically a basher-only level but deceivingly tough one. You really need to think carefully when and where to "decompose" the cycle giving the worker lix enough head start to clear the way the exit. Very clever miniature level, I love it :thumbsup:
Misaligned: This level was very easy. I literally one-shot the level.
High Striker
There are many ways to fail the level by one lemming :crylaugh: pretty tough level! The 94 release rate screams out the climber inside the basher tunnel trick.. but my solution works too!
Mosaic Lemmings
Looks intended. Delaying the swimmer assignment as long as possible was the hardest thing to see.
Comm-Link Online!
I had a climber and floater left over. But everything else looks so intended to me. :crylaugh: Sending a climber to the top part of the level was the hardest thing to see and the basher+bomber to make a hole for the crowd to step on is also very clever.
One Thing At A Time2
A little bit too repetitive and execution-heavy for my taste. It was basically a trial and error process. I like the concept behind the level though ;).
Snow Way!
Probably my favorite among rule1 levels, assuming my solution is intended. :D I quickly figured out the builder+miner combo. But the blocker position right before the trap was very clever. I saved one more lemming than required, I guess the precise assginment of the rightmost blocker save me the extra one.
Quote from: ericderkovits on June 10, 2024, 06:23:32 AM
JRT's solution to my Rule 3 is nowhere near the intended solution (Super weird solution), so updated it to V3 by adding more steel
Just saw V3, no wonder my solution is considered "wild" :D
@Crane and
@ArmaniBoth solutions to R1 are extremely close to intended that I was really on the fence of calling them acceptable. As a matter of fact, Armani's solution is closer to intended than Crane's, but Crane's isn't too far off as well. In any case, they at least aren't major backroutes. After some thought, there's one last thing I want to try as I think it would probably force the solution I had in mind for my R1. For V4, I took Crane's suggestion for some kind of fix for the area to the left of the exit and therefore added some more steamblower traps, as well as reverted the OWAs back to V2's, but the major change is the Lemming count has been increased to 50 and hence the save requirement is 48. I feel as if the level can still be cheesed here with this Lemming count and if it turns out that it can, then I'm thinking it's just a simple matter of increasing it a bit more. For now, let's try it with 50 Lemmings.
Spoiler
You both used an extra builder after the icicle trap at the bottom both to delay the second one. That builder can be put to better use than that, at least in the intended solution :P
For
@Armani:
Thanks so much for the compliment and am happy to hear that you like my R1! :thumbsup: IMO this is also one of my more clever level titles that I've managed to come up with in a while :laugh: "Snow Way!" is a pun on "No way!" and not really something I thought of, but an in tongue cheek joke to how I've never made a Snow level before and hence why I entered this kind of level for your ruleset :)
Spoiler
Yup, that miner releasing both blockers is indeed intended, and I'm glad you thought that blocking close to the icicle trap to prevent the workers on the left side of it won't die to it :thumbsup: It's something I first learned from Lemmings Plus I in a final rank level, and in a way also inspired by your Color Coded level from the previous LDC :)
Same thing with building immediately after the digger finishes since that fall is fatal by a pixel, and nice job for quickly spotting the builder/miner combo :thumbsup: This would also be my very first level I've made that requires this combo :laugh:
You might had also noticed that I decided to stick with just the classic 8 skills for my R1 ;) Who knew this one can still be quite challenging?
This has got to be an overcomplicated backroute! The timing is too perfect! ("Snow Way!" V4)
Shoot, I knew I should had stuck with a higher Lemming count! :forehead: Ok, let's try 60 Lemmings for V5!
How's this Kaywhyn?
EDIT: Oops, posted the level, not the replay!
@Armani
your rule1 solution to the level is indeed intended. good job
V2 of The Incredible Doom Machine solved.
Spoiler
Used all the tools but saved 12 more than required and overall felt rather scrappy, so probably a backroute
@Armani
Slight backroute to my R1 - added a zapper field.
@Crane
I thought of a nice fix without pickups to my R3. I added some steel and terrain and culled the floaters. maybe this will discourage that trick.
Got a resolve for Icho's R3, as my pre-testing solution doesn't work anymore, though it's pretty much the same solution as it, just without the floaters and so should be acceptable like the pre-testing one :)
@kaywhyn Acceptable alternative. :)
Re-solved "Mr Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore".
Spoiler
The new splatform makes it fairly obvious what you have to do, but working out how many lemmings you want ahead of the blocker is still a puzzle to work out, but the clue is in the number of lemmings you're allowed to lose (gutted that I couldn't find a way to save that lemming the builds the bridge from the left hand side!)
P.S. kaywhyn's solution is much more impressive! Thanks for proving me wrong!
resolved all the updated rule1 levels 8-)
(High Striker, Comm-Link Online!, Snow Way!)
They all look intended :thumbsup:
...and played through the rule2 levels! :laugh:
March of the Neutrals
The level goes with the flow and plays out naturally. I like how you have to be a busy bee to guide the march of the neutrals to the exit :laugh:
Set To Kill!
I got two solutions. I suspect the second solution is intended! It's incredible how you can make such an interesting level with only destructive skills. :lem-mindblown:
Don't Bash It Before You Dig It
I like how the route going the long way around is just red-herring :laugh:
The Incredible Doom Machine
I got two solutions. First one should be a backroute. The second solution might be a backroute as well but at least closer to intended imo because for me, it looks like the intended solution involves some kinds of nuke interaction to compensate the lack of downward destructive tools..
@Crane
Acceptable alternative. The 100% intended route still has a more interesting solution, but here I would need pick-ups and stuff to fully enforce it. I will show it off later. But this type of solution is totally acceptable. :)
@Armani
R1 is intended now and you predicted correctly for R2. One is intended the other is now fixed with 2 steel blocks. ;)
@Crane &
@ArmaniR1 - All solutions are 100% intended. Great job! :thumbsup: Thanks again for the feedback and am glad to hear you both liked my R1 :)
Spoiler
Having two sacrifices to the icicle trap is the hardest to see here IMO, and it might even be the first such custom level to require such. I myself don't recall any level I might had played that requires this, although I do remember a few levels where one sacrifice to a trap is needed.
- All solutions are backroutes, though Armani is very accurate with how he described his second solution. For V3, I removed some steel, took away the fencer pickups and restored the skillset the way it was before with V1 (5 fencers and only 3 lasers again). I think Armani was right when he said it would be an "easy" fix. Turns out the steel was a bit too helpful. Who knew? :laugh: I feel like this could still be cheesed a bit, and if it can, my suspicion is that I simply just need to reduce the time limit some more. For now, let's just keep it at 3 mins.
Quote from: Armani on June 11, 2024, 05:00:02 AM
resolved all the updated rule1 levels 8-)
(High Striker, Comm-Link Online!, Snow Way!)
They all look intended :thumbsup:
Yep, your solution is intended @Armani - well done.
resolved all the updated r2 levels 8-)
and played through r3 levels as well :thumbsup:
Tomb Raiders
The layout really gives me "classic-tribe" vibe like it's an official level from L2. :laugh: I'm not sure whether the level is supposed to be open-ended with a lenient skill set or I just backrouted it.
Neither here nor there
quite clear that two miners crossing each other has to be done. A little bit tricky to actually pull it off. It's always fun to watch the basher sliding down the slope :D
Mr Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore
I had a blocker left over. I can see the familiar chunk of terrains from original L2 level here and there :D
The Epic of Gilgamesh
Extremely builder-heavy, I used all but 5 builders :XD:
Always Remember
The first solution should be a backroute. The second solution looks much more intended. The whole contraption at the left side of the exit just takes too much time so taking advantage of the little box at the right side of the exit sounds most reasonable.
Completed WillLem's "The Meeting".
Spoiler
Seems like a very open-ended and straightforward level, not that that's a bad thing, but I can't believe that you've never made a Marble-themed level!
As for Armani's R3 replay, it is a backroute, but I'm happy that I got a good classic air to the level.
I adjusted the link to the ruleset in the first post.
@Armani
100% Intended solution to my R3! :thumbsup:
The blocker is only there to reduce the precision on that one basher at the top.
Just to note it here in the topic: I sadly needed to clean up the update topic to get rid of the posts without entries.
@WillLem If you want you can still post an eligible level, but I must sadly reject this one as I know you already made a marble level.
@Armani
Your solution to my Rule 2 level is 100% intended.
However, I added 2 Talismans in V4.
Also your solutioin to my Rule 3 level is intended.
Finally completed Cheddar-Crusted Hash Browns.
Spoiler
If this is intended, this was absolutely evil, because I was stuck for so long on the "Denial set-up", swearing that it must be right, along with using a Bomber to help the climber get back up. If that was all a red herring, you are an evil genius!
@ArmaniR2 - Both solutions are backroutes. For V4, I've adjusted the terrain, added some terrain, and made 4 of the fencers pickups. If the level can still be cheesed, then I probably just have to modify the skillset a bit more.
R3 - You are correct in how you described your two solutions. One of them is 100% intended, the other a backroute which hopefully has been fixed with some steel I added. If you can give me confirmation that the intended route is the only way possible, that would be great. It's interesting that this level of mine reminds you of Crane's level. That honestly never occurred to me, but after our discussion on Discord I think I understand. In any case, it sounds like my R3 was quite liked by the both of you and hence my prediction was correct! :thumbsup: Honestly, I didn't expect this level to be so challenging for anyone, let alone the likes of you two :laugh: However, I think I can see why this can still trip people up, as I point out in the spoiler.
Spoiler
Indeed, that backwards bashing on the one-pixel thin floor is quite sneaky! Apparently this did Crane in, as he kept using the wrong tool, a miner to be exact. Also as Armani correctly pointed out: You take the obvious route and you won't ever get them all to the exit on time! Unless players realize the true use of the little box to the right of the exit, they will be stuck aimlessly and be wondering how the heck is this possible with the time limit given? This level also teaches the importance of the destruction mask of digging skills, where both the basher and the miner can reach several pixels above them too and can come in quite in handy!
Also, oops, did you want to use the bombers to shortcut the level? I didn't just deny you guys an easy victory that way! :P *wags my finger left/right like no, no, no :laugh: This would be the first time I've thrown in completely useless bombers for a level. Why? Because I can! :P This of course was intentional on my part. Just to screw with players in case they don't pay attention to the save all requirement ;)
Finally did Chedder-Crusted Hash Browns the intended way (this is before any fixes were made to the level).
And completed R1's Guts Over Fear!
Spoiler
Damn this was hard to work out! So many red herrings in the level design and toolset. I finally found a place where I can switch out a Basher for a Shimmier and have a couple of Bashers fulfil more than one role apiece. Also found out the reason for the 5 Floaters! Nice one Armani!
P.S. I wonder if blocking a Shimmier was inspired by my original plan for "Containment" before I scrapped it. I can't remember if I told you or not regarding my plan with that.
@Crane Intended :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Spoiler
QuoteI can switch out a Basher for a Shimmier and have a couple of Bashers fulfil more than one role apiece
That's the main trick I wanted to enforce. Release the crowd, send two worker lemmings to make a turnaround point for the climber with one basher.
I think blocking a Shimmier is relatively common in custom level scene. I have seen quite a lot of levels requiring it and I myself also have two or three levels in my first pack.
And here're my resolves to the updated levels. 8-)
Quote from: Armani on June 14, 2024, 06:38:56 AM
@Crane Intended :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Spoiler
QuoteI can switch out a Basher for a Shimmier and have a couple of Bashers fulfil more than one role apiece
That's the main trick I wanted to enforce. Release the crowd, send two worker lemmings to make a turnaround point for the climber with one basher.
I think blocking a Shimmier is relatively common in custom level scene. I have seen quite a lot of levels requiring it and I myself also have two or three levels in my first pack.
Spoiler
The more I learn - i need to play more custom levels!
Both of the solutions to Tomb Raiders are backroutes. I'll have to think about it a bit.
@Armani
R2 - Both solutions are backroutes. I think V5 will do it here, especially as there aren't that many options for the start now. All fencers have been made pickups, 4 of the bashers are now pickups, +1 laser, and added some fire traps.
edit: Reattached V5 as I decided to move the basher pickups to a different location, as I believe the level can still be cheesed with them in the old location :forehead:
Armani already has the intended solution for my R3, but I've uploaded a V5 not to fix backroutes, but instead where I just add a wooden staircase as originally I wanted a particular element to the level that players need to be careful of. If this causes any cheesing of the level, then I'll simply upload another update to revert the change.
Didn't occur to me, but by uploading a new version of my R3 (not necessary at all), all of my levels are at V5! :laugh:
resolved updated levels 8-)
@ArmaniR2 - Finally, that's 100% intended! Great job! :thumbsup: Your solution is exactly identical to mine except for a skill you used close to the lattice area, but yea, this is intended :)
Spoiler
As mentioned on Discord, you can actually do the level without needing to change the RR at the start. I simply provided an extra laser skill so that in case the timing doesn't work out and a Lemming slips out of the digger pit and therefore will walk into the masher traps near the entrance, you can delay that Lemming with the laser.
The remaining bashers/fencers are all extra and therefore distractions/red herrings. Here, I was going for a possible reaction in players where they think, these leftover bashers/fencers aren't going to help get to the exit, is this a mistake? Then they might aimlessly try and see if they can avoid using the bomber and digger in those two pre-determined areas, but try as they might, they will not succeed. Therefore, it is up to the player to realize that this is a level with a nuke solution.
This is my very first nuke level, and I did kind of claim in a way that I think pretty much all notable level designers eventually make one such level. I guess it was finally time for me :laugh: Also a no constructive skills level on top of that! ;)
You already have the intended solution, but I decided to upload a V6 which reverts the lattice area back to V3's and also to put the basher pickups where I had them before before I modified V5 by moving them to the location you resolved. So, just a couple of tweaks needed in your replay is all that's needed to get a working one again, but yea, thanks for all the resolves and for helping me fix the level so that it seems only the intended route is possible now :)
Quote from: Armani on June 15, 2024, 09:13:01 AM
resolved updated levels 8-)
Hmmm... it's a backroute, but part of it is the intended solution but done more efficiently! Got to think about how to adjust things now!
All rightie, I have updated the contest collection pack to include V4 of Crane's R3. I'm happy to report that simply replacing the Contest30_NL zip as Icho explained to me works great and therefore the download link is still the same as it was when the playing phase first started on the 8th of June. I want to thank Icho for taking care of updating the contest pack for me all of last week. It's now a brand new week, so now it's my turn to be updating the pack while Icho takes his break from that :)
So there I was, playing around with all these levels that are wayyyyyyyy too hard for me :'( but are nevertheless very joyful :D .
Then I come across "Don't bash it before you dig it" and after about 1 hour, I beat it. Full of joy I seek to compare my solution to the others posted here. With terror in my eyes >:( I notice that
1. JRTs level is currently withdrawn
2. Everyone elses solution is mere seconds, and mine is 2 minutes long
3. Everyone seems to agree that the surroundings of the level are red herrings.
Well shooks. I'm here feasting on my red herrings. I'm still proud of my solution :thumbsup:
resolved Tomb Raiders 8-)
Second solution looks intended
Second one is absolutely intended - well done!
Quote from: darkshoxx on June 16, 2024, 03:25:22 PM
So there I was, playing around with all these levels that are wayyyyyyyy too hard for me :'( but are nevertheless very joyful :D .
Then I come across "Don't bash it before you dig it" and after about 1 hour, I beat it. Full of joy I seek to compare my solution to the others posted here. With terror in my eyes >:( I notice that
1. JRTs level is currently withdrawn
2. Everyone elses solution is mere seconds, and mine is 2 minutes long
3. Everyone seems to agree that the surroundings of the level are red herrings.
Well shooks. I'm here feasting on my red herrings. I'm still proud of my solution :thumbsup:
That is actually impressive!
I hope JRT adjusts his level to abide by the rules, but keeps that option available as a talisman solution somehow!
JRT's update is now included and the level is eligible! :)
:lem-mindblown::lem-mindblown::lem-mindblown::lem-mindblown::lem-mindblown::lem-mindblown::lem-mindblown:
Yeah no way this is intended
This has been the struggle with this level, the bomber introduces more stuff you can do to the terrain, after fixing the oversight in the original by raising the platforms I feel a slew of backroutes are going to be found and closing them all off will be tough.
Sending through a V3
Thanks
@JRT for updating your R2 so that it satisfies my ruleset and to
@Icho for being prompt on updating the contest pack to include it.
Note to
@JRT:
I've now updated the contest pack to include V3 of your R2, but I've made an edit to your post in the update topic where the general practice is to remove any existing post of yours from that topic and to make a new post attaching any new version of your level. I know it's been a while since you last submitted levels for an LDC, and so it's understandable that you might had forgotten how updates for contest levels work during the playing phase. I also did so on your post in the update topic, but I'll repeat it here and bold the part as a reminder for you to observe in the future. You observed #1 correctly, but will also need to observe #2:
Quote from: LDC #30 Update Topic
Please follow these rules for updates:
1. When posting a new updated version of a level, remove any old updated versions of that level --> Have all your recent updates stored in 1 post! I will delete such old posts eventually if the author doesn't; so don't store any important information in them.
2. Make a new post for a new update; do not edit your most recent post. You may, however, post updates to multiple entries (if you have more than one) in the same post.
This is just to lead to less confusion so that neither Icho nor I miss any level updates, in case several others post an update for their level and then yours ends up getting lost in the mix and chaos and therefore we by chance miss your update.
Ahhh yes of course, I remember now. I suppose edits don't spit out the notifications like new messages would.
Quote from: JRT on June 17, 2024, 09:33:19 PM
Ahhh yes of course, I remember now. I suppose edits don't spit out the notifications like new messages would.
No problem at all. Just a friendly reminder, really ;) Yup, you're correct about edits to posts in that notifications of them don't appear in the box at the bottom on the home page. Only new posts do and reflect that. Contests also happened to have done this for a long time now that it's essentially standard practice and routine to just delete posts in the update topic and to make a new post whenever you release a new version of any of your contest levels. Just global admins doing some Forums housekeeping for contests, really, for posts in the update topic and to make it easy for everyone to get the newest updates of your levels and for Icho and I to update the contest pack more easily :)
Anyway, I look forward to playing your levels and all the others when I get to them sometime next month! :thumbsup:
Here is my replay for Always Remember V5
I really like the level, I don't think I saw the V4, where was the steel?
Updated the contest collection pack to include V6 of my R3, as JRT was able to backroute it :)
@JRT
R3 - Thanks for playing and the nice compliment :thumbsup: That is a backroute, and something that I did think could be exploited but I wasn't able to get a backroute of it like you managed to. Or rather, I didn't really extensive do enough testing in that area. In any case, very easy fix for V6, which has been patched with another flamethrower trap. There's another one added, but that one is just purely for decoration and to add a bit of symmetry to the level :laugh:
If you fancy giving my updated R3 a try, that would be awesome, as I think you'll like the level even more if you're able to get the intended solution :) At least both Armani and Crane have given the level a lot of praise, though the latter needed one tiny hint from watching Armani's replay, as he was very close to solving it without help but didn't quite get there. I honestly thought he would eventually get it solved on his own, but apparently the deceptions in the level have worked far better than I expected! :laugh: Same thing with it being far more challenging than I thought it be, as I honestly thought my R3 wouldn't give anyone here problems :crylaugh:
Nobody's perfect! I'm still learning to see deceit, even if unintentional!
Quote from: Crane on June 18, 2024, 06:40:13 AM
Nobody's perfect! I'm still learning to see deceit, even if unintentional!
Understood! Depending on the level, they're not always easy to spot or even know whether they are distractions ahead of time and therefore can be dismissed :thumbsup:
Quote from: kaywhyn on June 18, 2024, 07:15:14 AM
Quote from: Crane on June 18, 2024, 06:40:13 AM
Nobody's perfect! I'm still learning to see deceit, even if unintentional!
Understood! Depending on the level, they're not always easy to spot or even know whether they are distractions ahead of time and therefore can be dismissed :thumbsup:
Also, with the newly-placed flame blowers of V6, I would have worked it out because it makes it clear
Spoiler
that the miner has to be used to get through.
Spoiler tagged a part of your post!
Quote from: Crane on June 18, 2024, 07:40:22 AM
Also, with the newly-placed flame blowers of V6, I would have worked it out because it makes it clear
Spoiler
that the miner has to be used to get through.
Ok, that's with the current version. You didn't have this in earlier versions of my R3! :P
Quote from: kaywhyn on June 18, 2024, 07:58:25 AM
Quote from: Crane on June 18, 2024, 07:40:22 AM
Also, with the newly-placed flame blowers of V6, I would have worked it out because it makes it clear
Spoiler
that the miner has to be used to get through.
Ok, that's with the current version. You didn't have this in earlier versions of my R3! :P
That's fair! And for some reason I forgot that the spoiler tag was a thing!
In the meantime, here's my solution to Don't Bash it Before You Dig It 2.
Quote from: Crane on June 18, 2024, 08:03:05 AM
And for some reason I forgot that the spoiler tag was a thing!
What???!!! Even though you did it correctly when you did your first round of solves along with some resolves? :P Hehe, no worries, all good. Staff will be happy to do so if it's necessary! ;) You're doing pretty good with getting these levels solved yourself! :thumbsup:
Quote from: kaywhyn on June 18, 2024, 09:31:37 AM
Quote from: Crane on June 18, 2024, 08:03:05 AM
And for some reason I forgot that the spoiler tag was a thing!
What???!!! Even though you did it correctly when you did your first round of solves along with some resolves? :P Hehe, no worries, all good. Staff will be happy to do so if it's necessary! ;) You're doing pretty good with getting these levels solved yourself! :thumbsup:
I just woke up and got mixed up with Discord's spoiler thing, thinking it existed in one system and not the other. I'm a bit more awake now!
Playing these levels has improved my solving skill quite a bit, although I am somewhat slower than you and Armani... certainly not fast enough for a YouTube series yet! Certain tricks I wouldn't have thought of though, since I'm still getting to grips with some of the newer skills.
Quote from: Crane on June 18, 2024, 08:03:05 AM
In the meantime, here's my solution to Don't Bash it Before You Dig It 2.
Ahhhh I'm having a hard time preventing the basher brute force methods.
It's good to see though!
I think I have a quick fix for this so I'll post a V4 shortly.
Solved "Don't Bash it Before You Dig It 2" again. The second replay is me optimising the first one to save all but one.
And this one saves all 20!
If the solution is what i think it is, then...
Spoiler
a fix could be to move that platform above back 1 pixel, although it will increase the precision a bit.
Ahhh damn it!!!!
Spoiler
Yes moving the platform by a pixel might help, it didn't before but then it was terrain.
Quote from: Crane on June 18, 2024, 02:04:44 PM
And this one saves all 20!
If the solution is what i think it is, then...
Spoiler
a fix could be to move that platform above back 1 pixel, although it will increase the precision a bit.
Oh this breaks the concept of the level completely.
Spoiler
Moving the other platforms will be problematic due to how the intended solution is supposed to work. I might have to start placing a few pixels of steel where you cast the basher digger combos such that it interferes with bashers but not diggers.
To fix...
Spoiler
I will need to change the layout of the level somewhat to prevent the use of a turned around crowd. I have a funny feeling I will be editing this level right up until end of July and it still not being fixed.
I wish you luck in fixing the level. Sorry to cause such a break. I've learnt the hard way that the more intricate a solution, the easier it is to break. Also some advanced tricks that one might not be aware of is also a destroyer of souls (blockers in digger pits did it for me once!)
On another note, after a lot of fiddling, I got the gold talisman for "March of the Neutrals"!
ADDENDUM: Also completed:
Set to Kill!
This was very fiddly and certainly can't be done without NeoLemmix frame stepping and replay editing (blue R), but was a nice puzzle to work out.
@ Crane
your Gold Talisman solution to my Rule 2 level is fine although yours is a lot more fiddy than than the intended one.
I did wonder that - I'm glad you approve though! I dare ask... what's the name of the song that the level's music track is based on? I know the melody, but unfortunately I only know it through a rude version!!
EDIT: Found it. It's "When Johnny Comes Marching Home".
ADDENDUM: Got another gold talisman solution. Not quite as fiddly, but still fiddly near the start.
The song is When Johnny comes marching home
ie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtEqgG2EdTs
I got the track used in the level from LB999's Classical Lemmings here on the forum
Thanks Ericderkovits. I never knew it it was an American Civil War song. Now I'm trying to learn the lyrics and sing it correctly to the melody!
also your 2nd Gold Talisman solution (Rule 2) is fine (way less fiddy)
@ Crane
Here is my Gold Talisman solution for comparison. For anyone else don't download and watch if you don't want to be spoiled.
also included the Silver Talisman solution although if you solve the Gold one it automatically get's the silver too.
I've made an edit to the starting post underneath the link Icho provided where there are some styles needed for a few levels in this contest pack have now been included in the standard tileset library. So, this means that you may now either continue to grab the required styles through the link Icho provided in the starting post, or you can get them through the styles manager in the NL player. Either way works :thumbsup:
Quote from: Crane on June 18, 2024, 10:53:45 AM
Playing these levels has improved my solving skill quite a bit, although I am somewhat slower than you and Armani... certainly not fast enough for a YouTube series yet! Certain tricks I wouldn't have thought of though, since I'm still getting to grips with some of the newer skills.
Hehe, thanks for the compliment ;) Yea, the new skills do take some getting used to. Definitely a lot of possibilities and puzzle potential with the 21 skills available for NL!
Quote
I dare ask... what's the name of the song that the level's music track is based on? I know the melody, but unfortunately I only know it through a rude version!!
EDIT: Found it. It's "When Johnny Comes Marching Home".
Yea, there are some songs that use that tune but with different lyrics. In particular, a popular children's song that uses the tune is "The Ants Go Marching." When I first heard "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" not too long ago, I thought oh hey, it's the music that "The Ants Go Marching" uses.
Also
@Crane, I think that might be a backroute for Icho's R2. You do have some things intended but others not so much. It's Icho's call, but I think he would agree with me there. Nice find!
Re-completed "The Incredible Doom Machine" - something tells me this might be intended!
Got another solution to "The Incredible Doom Machine".
Finally got the timing right on "Very Particular Set of Skills"! Liam Neeson would be proud!
Spoiler
Quite difficult to get the sequence right because of the risk of lemmings walking into the propellors or arriving too quickly for the lemmings up above to bomb away the obstructions. Enjoyable little puzzle though.
@Crane
(https://i.ibb.co/3k6cC63/taken.jpg)
Spoiler
There's slight difference in how you handle the crowd but close enough. :laugh:
@Crane
Sadly, I wish I could say you are right with your first solution resolve for my R2, but both solutions are backroutes. For V7, I restored the basher pickups to where they were in V5 before I moved them again before seeing Armani's resolve. We both thought it be safe for me to move them to close to the lattice per his feedback, but you were able to find a way to cheese the level. Great find! I really should listen to the advice of it being risky to revert changes as that can either open up the same backroutes again or even new and different ones :forehead: Then again, I tend to be very indecisive when it comes to backroute fixing. It's also something that stresses me out a lot. Over the years, I seem to spend way more time thinking of how to backroute fix than the time it takes me to play and solve levels! Even when I have been participating in 9 consecutive LDC's, I still haven't gotten a whole lot better at backroute fixing :( That's also when I even do extensive backroute testing of my own! In any case, it's been great seeing solutions from people other than Armani and Icho, such as you in this LDC, or like zanzindorf in the previous one. Overall, I still have a lot of work to do when it comes to backroute fixing! :laugh:
Once more, I thank you for all the resolves but most importantly playing my levels! :thumbsup:
For those who want to see the intended solutions to my levels, here it is :laugh:
youtube link (https://youtu.be/NVB3X7NSGgM?si=NFyrnbPVXjIVHJiR)
Quote from: Armani on June 23, 2024, 08:21:37 AM
For those who want to see the intended solutions to my levels, here it is :laugh:
youtube link (https://youtu.be/NVB3X7NSGgM?si=NFyrnbPVXjIVHJiR)
Lookin' good, Armani! :thumbsup: 8-)
Quote from: Armani on June 23, 2024, 08:21:37 AM
For those who want to see the intended solutions to my levels, here it is :laugh:
youtube link (https://youtu.be/NVB3X7NSGgM?si=NFyrnbPVXjIVHJiR)
Spoiler
I see what you mean now by my crowd control method being different
In the meantime, here's my solution to V7 of The Incredible Doom Machine.
A more efficient variation of the above solution. Possibly a backroute as it leaves quite a few skills left over.
Okay, this one is DEFINITELY a backroute!
Another solution to "The Incredible Doom Machine".
Another nuke solution, but this one doesn't use the initial basher.
There are still another 80 solutions to One Thing At A Time II to be found Crane! ;)
Quote from: JRT on June 26, 2024, 11:39:01 AM
There are still another 80 solutions to One Thing At A Time II to be found Crane! ;)
Well I found 3 of them!
Oh no I mean the Rule 1, the 12 lemming one on the crystal level. This OTAAT series of levels will get larger and hopefully more interesting. My first OTAAT features in contest 20. This second crystalises the idea in a rigorous fashion. I really need to sit down and prove the conjecture that the complexity of the levels is N.logP where N is number of lemmings and P the number of possible paths. When I find the time I shall be playing with the maths of chaining several layers together, which should hopefully make it more interesting.
If I find the time I'll use excel to generate all the solutions in those text file replays to OTAAT II.
Haha yes yes my rule 2 is horribly broken XD. I'll study these to see if there are any more breakages I haven't noticed. I'm closing in on a new layout that will hopefully prevent the backroutes.
Oh yes, my mistake. Well, the basic premise of One Thing At A Time II is the same each time, just with a different permutation of digger placements. Don't take this the wrong way, but it's not my kind of level.
I did not even see that Crane posted a solution to my R2 until now. :-[
Backroute --> added some steel.
Quote from: IchoTolot on July 13, 2024, 08:21:51 PM
Backroute --> added some steel.
"Steel Works" every time. ;) That's what I always say!
For now here are my replays. :)
I plan to do videos eventually, but let's check if there are any backroutes first.
There is one replay missing "The Epic of Gilgamesh". Sorry, I just won't spend my weekend assigning 90 builders in a repetitive fashion anymore. I will simply show of an already existing replay in this case.
If this was smaller with only like 20-30 required - which still would get the idea across - I would play it, but this just seems tedious.
Even more as "One Thing At A Time II" was already guess the right pillar to dig on times 12.
Both of your solutions for my levels are intended IchoTolot - well done! Would have been nice to see you try to solve them on video, but oh well!
Solved "Set To Kill!" V3 - still feels very fiddly though.
Also made another replay of "The Incredible Doom Machine" based mostly on IchoTolot's replay - it is very similar to one I've done already, but I decided to try to make it as efficient as possible.
Icho's solutions are intended for my rule 1 and 3 levels.
Updated my Rule 2 level
added a Bronze Talisman
added a button and locked exit with a blocker on it (for the Bronze Talisman)
adjusted terrain since it was possible not to use any bombers previously
Two solutions for eric's updated level. One for 2 talismans and one for the new one.
@Icho
Both solutions are good. bronze one is exactly to mine. The other one is different than mine but is still good.
I might have gotten the versions confused for The Incredible Doom Machine, since I thought V7 was the last one. Nevertheless, with the current version, this backroute is still possible:
Bronze talisman solution for V5 of March of the Neutrals (my gold talisman solution, which also gets the silver talisman, still works).
Finally got around to fixing backroutes to my R2 thanks to Crane, as well as a backroute to my R3 thanks to Icho. Thanks everyone for your patience. Admittedly, I haven't been in much of a fixing mood since around the time of my short vacation with my parents last month.
I have updated the contest collection pack to include V8 of my R2 and V7 of my R3! :)
@CraneR2 - Finally uploaded V8 of my R2 to fix your backroutes. The first few were a really great find, making very good use of one end of the laser tunnel in order to make it possible to cheese the starting area with it. Luckily, it was simply an easy fix of shifting the steel near the exit. I've tried every possible configuration at the start and I don't think it's possible to cheese the starting area the way you did with the laser anymore, but feel free to prove me wrong if you like! :P In addition, I've also removed the steel from the top right and reduced the number of fencer pickups to 3. This will hopefully force the use of the skill in certain spots now, but let's see!
@IchoR1 - Intended! :thumbsup: One of the tricks was inspired a bit by Armani's Color Coded from the previous LDC, as well as a late Psycho level from namida's LPI. Also the release was inspired by one of your United levels! ;)
Spoiler
Also my very first builder/miner combo level! :laugh:
- Intended! :thumbsup: However, Crane has backrouted the level several times, which I hope has been fixed with V8. So, sorry to break your solution, as well as Armani's, but you both just need a replay tweak in a few spots to get a working replay again :)
R3 - Nice find! :-[ Another one that's easily fixed, but for V7 I decided to go with adding another wooden plank instead of Crane's idea of adding more steel. Trust me, you'll love the intended solution when you find it and therefore I think you'll like my level for your ruleset! ;)
Also added some more terrain in the bottom right to fix another cheesy backroute variant near the exit area.
My R2 replay still works.
For R3 my backroute only needed a slight adjustment though.
@Icho
R2 - Ah, not sure why I thought I broke your replay there from fixing Crane's backroutes. Somehow I thought having less skills caused that. I just checked it again and indeed your replay still works. As mentioned before, your solution is intended. Me and my fuzzy memory :XD:
R3 - Ah, not sure how I missed that! :forehead: For V8, created a gap
Maybe this is at least a bit closer. ???
@Icho
R3 - Nah, not that much closer :P For V9, I simply shifted the entrance over.
Still seems to be a backroute.
Quote from: IchoTolot on July 24, 2024, 08:50:17 PM
Still seems to be a backroute.
R3 - Correct. Ugh, another good use of that digger elsewhere :laugh: For V10, created another hole. Somehow I still have a feeling you'll find another way around the intended route, but well, let's see! ;)
New backroute for you kaywhyn! Enjoy!
Possible Fix
Extend the steel part in the upper left corner so you can't dig down and drop onto a Builder's bridge there, or will this give too much away?
Alternative
Given I save exactly 1 Climber and it uses some advanced tricks and careful placement... maybe a talisman solution?!
Quote from: Crane on July 25, 2024, 02:16:48 AM
New backroute for you kaywhyn! Enjoy!
Possible Fix
Extend the steel part in the upper left corner so you can't dig down and drop onto a Builder's bridge there, or will this give too much away?
Alternative
Given I save exactly 1 Climber and it uses some advanced tricks and careful placement... maybe a talisman solution?!
Nice find for my R3! For V11, added steel. I appreciate your help in suggesting some fixes, but I think I will open them up after I get word that only the intended route is the only way :P It's not me being stubborn to accept help, but rather I'm one who generally prefers to do things solo, especially if it's a contest level. If it wasn't, then sure, fire away! :P That being said, I'm not opposed to future collabs on levels if, say, a tag team contest or some collab contest happens again! ;)
That's a fair point. No worries.
This is not a solve, but a solution that barely fails! Probably can't be solved this way, but who knows!
All rightie, I have followed suit and solved all of the contest levels. My replays are attached. These replays were done in v0.10.24 of Lix and v12.12.5 NL, though I think these would all still work in v0.10.25 of Lix and the NL 12.13-3 RC build, respectively.
I seem to have found some backroutes here :P In particular, I'm guessing geoo's R2, most definitely Armani's R2 and R3, and possibly Crane's R3, though that one might be an acceptable alternative despite the saved skill. Armani's R3 took me the longest, only for me to ultimately find a backroute :P
Lix Entries Feedbackgeoo's Cycle Decomposition R2V1
Wow, nice level for my ruleset, but sadly I found an extremely easy way to contain the crowd to prepare the route so that it doesn't rely too much on timing :P Still, deceptively difficult despite being a bashers and bomber only level!
geoo's Misaligned R3V1
Once again, I continue to be amazed at what one can do in Lix. Seems that this is only possible due to the wrap feature, though a level like this should theoretically also be possible to make in NL when the engine at one point had the wrap gimmick. Solution still isn't too obvious or trivial in any way despite just being a miner and blockers only level.
NL Contest Entries FeedbackR1's:
Armani's Guts Over Fear R1V1
Wow, this was deceivingly tough but a good one, just like Icho said. I thought I could get it solved by being able to bash to the right and also through the staircase as well, allowing an alternative solution but seems the basher will always top before the staircase. The other idea I had for a while was building at the very bottom, but then I thought wait, the climber will just get into trouble when he gets to the far left and fall down and splat. Not sure why it took me a while to realize that you can use a blocker to have him go back the other way so that he can bash through to allow the others to use the right exit :XD: Nice, this trick is always great fun for me to see in action! Definitely reminds me of Festive 6 from your Halloween Lemmings 2023 pack. This took a few tries to get right, as then the hardest part was making sure only two went through to the bottom while everyone else gets contained at the bottom right.
My only other critique here is that the timing is really tight with bashing the white spike to release the blocker and the builder finishing just barely in the nick of time before he slips by the builder. Was wondering if the spike can therefore be made a bit thicker ??? Other than that, great job with the level.
Crane's High Striker R1V3
Nice level, though this still took me some time to figure out how to get two worker Lemmings in order to do the mining and fencing simultaneously so that you don't run out of time. Turns out I kept assigning skills to the wrong Lermmings, and I eventually noticed the 94RR and thought, wait, isn't this the RR which allows a climber to not turn around in a basher tunnel? Ah, there's that throwback to Cunning 3 from Lemmings Cranium, though this level is more similar to Chaos 24 in terms of the trick being applied in a more complicated level but a lot easier to apply since you don't have that many options at all in this level. Also nice use of a track from PimoLems! :laugh:
eric's Mosaic Lemmings R1V2
Pretty much had the level figured out somewhat fairly quick, though the hardest part here was seeing to delay the swimmer skill assignment as long as possible in order to get two Lemmings past the water squirting trap in order to use the block in front of the laser so he can release both the left-most neutral groups. Before I saw this, I kept thinking about other things, such as how to get a Lemming into place to bomb the other two neutral groups out with the shimmiers and other skills provided. I thought maybe someone needed to turn around at the very top at the start and jump to avoid the trap, but turns out you'll end up some skills short.
My main critique here is why the heck is a lot of the normal entrance off the top of the level ??? Personally, this looks sloppy to me, though it might just be me having an issue with things appearing outside the visible portions of the level. Of course, the easiest thing to do here is to simply increase the height of the level or move the entrance down until all of it is visible and not hidden from sight. Otherwise, quite a decent level with one of Dexter's new tilesets
JRT's One Thing at a Time II R1V1
One of the final two levels I solved, just like some of the others have said, this is way too fiddly and annoying to execute, with the entire level being complete guesswork x12, as you cannot have two Lemmings land on the tip of the spike at the bottom simultaneously. Gave up on this in frustration before I decided to buckle down and get it solved for real. Eventually in the end, I resorted to replay edit mode and still had to spend a good 10 minutes or so before I finally found something that worked. However, seems this isn't the only way to get the level solved, as you have stated there's many solutions that also get the job done. Well, I haven't checked any of his replays, but I'm convinced of the truth due to the many solutions that Crane has found to it. I myself am not going to bother going back to see if I can find other multiple solutions, though. The level's already annoying enough due to being very precise on the diggers and not knowing if the solution is correct until you do the building section at the bottom.
R2's:Armani's Very Particular Set of Skills R2V1
Sorry, this should be a backroute as I don't even use the left part of the level at the bottom. I used a very brute force way to sneak past the fire trap near the OWW and made sure that the basher didn't tank the OWAs to turn around. I checked your video of the intended solution and I had a suspicion that the bottom left is used so that the timing all works out. Still a deceivingly difficult level even if I figured out some things pretty quickly! Most definitely getting the timing right is the hardest in the level.
eric's March of the Neutrals R2V5
Another fairly decent level with another one of Dexter's new tilesets. I've attached three solutions, first just solving it and then for the talismans. Solving the level without using the basher took a while, but I eventually found a way to do so by tanking steel to allow the neutrals to get ahead of the Lemming.
I understand that this is supposed to be a long march the neutrals have to do in the level, but there is way too much walking with the player not needing to do anything at all. I know Nepster certainly would criticize a level like this for that. Most importantly, why the heck do you have two talismans where the silver one is also in the gold one plus the requirement of no more than one bomber allowed? The silver one can simply be removed. If the concern is due to people might want to read the talisman before solving the level, then keep in mind some solve the level first and might not even bother with them or later go back and get them, like was the case with me.
For the record, I criticized Silken for doing the exact same thing with one of their levels with having a redundant talisman, and they ended up removing one of them ;)
JRT's Don't Bash It Before You Dig It R2V4
Wow, trickier than I thought it was. Thought I could cheese the level by not needing to take the long way around, but I couldn't get it to work. Guess you really do need to take the hint in the level title here in order to get up to the exit. Anyway, I'm not sure if my solution is intended.
R3's:Armani's Cheddar-Crusted Hash Browns R3V2
Sorry, this is most definitely a backroute! This was pretty much the final level I got solved. Deceivingly difficult, and another approach I tried comes really close but unfortunately the climber worker goes out the wrong way. I might have an idea as to what's intended, but I will try again after an update :P
Crane's Tomb Raiders R3V5
This one didn't look so bad until I saw to my horror that the end part is too thick to step up through the ceiling even with the basher/blocker staircase. So, this meant that I would need to save both bashers for the end then. So, the hardest part was how to do the start without using a basher, as tempting as it is. Pretty fiddly at the start but it can be done with some well-placed bombers and a digger. I do have a digger leftover, so I don't know if this is a backroute or an acceptable alternative where I might had been more efficient.
eric's Neither here nor there R3V3
Wasn't exactly one of my favorites due to needing to fiddle around with the miner placements so that they both can cross without cancelling each other, as well as the huge amount of building needed to be done, but this one at least isn't overkill like JRT's R3. Again, why the heck do you have entrances at the top partially off the top of the screen? Also, why is the exit in midair?????? Notice there's a 1 pixel gap between it and the ground
JRT's The Epic of Gilgamesh R3V1
Yea, I can definitely see why Icho refused to play this one all the way. This one wasn't exactly fun for me to do due to so much building needed to be done. You might as well just give the player 99 or an infinite amount of builders so that it's not a worry that one would run out of builders at all. Even then, that still probably wouldn't get Icho to play the level entirely. It's really obvious what you need to do, but the fact you need to place the builders pretty precisely so that you can get one long digger in a few places while taking care of the splat height was pretty annoying. I haven't said this to you at any point yet, but remember that in NL that "just because you can doesn't mean you should." There are some types of levels the NL community generally dislike, such as builder heavy levels.
Quote from: Crane on July 25, 2024, 08:53:52 AM
This is not a solve, but a solution that barely fails! Probably can't be solved this way, but who knows!
Shouldn't be possible to, as I also failed when I tried to test that route in your replay.
Nice one on the solves! I wish I could see you solving these on video... we seem to be missing that for this contest!
Your solve to "Tomb Raiders" is a backroute, but I'm impressed enough that I can't be mad, but I think I need to patch it because with some slight adjusting it's possible to save an extra lemming.
I also can't help but laugh at your solution to "Cheddar-Crusted Hash Browns" because of how simple the backroute it is, as well as being surprised that I didn't notice it myself (I found one that required a V2).
@CraneResolved your R3. This solution any better? It's a bit too heavy on the precision for my liking, but then again I admit that I most likely made it harder than it needed to be!
Oh and also, I don't know if Icho ever confirmed it for you for his R2, but your solution is intended/acceptable now!Quote from: Crane on July 27, 2024, 01:52:35 PM
Nice one on the solves! I wish I could see you solving these on video... we seem to be missing that for this contest!
Yea, I know how much you like seeing people play your levels in real time, but unfortunately Icho and I are past this point for contest levels due to our shifting preference of playing the levels in peace and how some of these can take a really long time to solve. Maybe not for Icho, as I consider him one of the best solvers of this community, but most definitely for me, as some of these took quite a bit of time and so a lot of the time you wouldn't really see me doing much on camera anyway! :P
Quote
I also can't help but laugh at your solution to "Cheddar-Crusted Hash Browns" because of how simple the backroute it is, as well as being surprised that I didn't notice it myself (I found one that required a V2).
Yea, I surprised myself from not having found this backroute for Armani's level much earlier, because this one stumped me pretty good for several days! I'm sure the intended way is impressive, based on what you discussed about the level, and so I will try again once Armani drops an update! ;)
How about now @Crane? Still too heavy on the precision for my liking.
Also, I've included V7 of your R3 in the pack this time, but please remember to delete your post in the update topic and make a new one posting your update next time! ;)
edit: 1 more solution but saves some extra!
New solution for V8 with the new way I did the start looking intended. All skills used but spared a bomber and saved an extra!
@kaywhyn
R1 is intended as you might have guessed already.
R2 is not intended but pretty close. Brute forcing to sneak past the fire near the OWW is not something I want to allow. So here's an update 8-)
R3 Yeah no idea why that simple "just build up" backroute slipped my mind. :evil:
R2 and R3 got updates but they won't break any accepted replays so far 8-)
My new solutions to Armani's R2 and R3. R2 is of course intended now while R3 sadly is still a backroute :(
@kaywhyn
R2 is intended :thumbsup:
R3: I moved the flame thrower downward a bit. 8-)
Only had blockers this time but this still feels extremely hackish.
Also same thing as I told Crane: Please remember to delete and make a new post when posting your update in the update topic. Do not just edit/modify your existing post! ;)
Link to my playthrough:
Part 1 (NL): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-vSESEx0fU
Part 2 (My own levels): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPVIkmuxC0I
part 3 (Lix): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s10AS1r6UcY
I also attached a new NL replay collection.
@Icho
I noticed in the video for my Rule 1 level (Mosaic lemmings), that Strato's swedish lems were not used. (just shows the default ones)
Strato uploaded his complete sprite collection back on march 10, 2020.
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4681.0
also Namida didn't include them in the styles update
@IchoThat's another nice backroute find for my R3. For V12, I shifted over the flamethrower and put it in a nice box :laugh: Alternatively, I could had also put some steel on the vertical wooden plank, but I figured since I already have a flamethrower close by I might as well put it to good use. "Kill it with fire!" as I always like to say :evil:
I've updated the contest pack to include V12 of my R3 as well as updates from both Armani and Crane, though they only affect my replays. Everything is fine on yours, but feel free to double-check with yours!
I've already commented on your solutions to my levels on your video, but I'll copy/paste here too.
R1 - Intended! Great job. Also, thank you so much for your compliment. Both Armani and Crane liked this level of mine as well ^^
Spoiler
I pretty much envisioned a level where you need to build over the digger pit so that all Lemmings go out the correct way (to the left) and then pretty much took the level from there with the somewhat well-known build immediately upon landing because the fall is fatal by just a pixel but is safe for the digger (kind of got inspired by your United level QUOLA). Indeed, I share your assessment that the part with the icicle trap at the bottom is the hardest part to figure out of the solution. I think mine might be the first to require two sacrifices to the trap. I know plenty that need one. That blocker next to the trap was partly inspired by Armani's Color Coded from the previous LDC, but mostly inspired by a late Psycho Marble level from Lemmings Plus I ;) The release at the end was inspired by your Wrath of the Lem King from Lemmings United. See why I like that level so much? Hehe ^^ Also my very first builder/miner combo level I ever made =)
The music is another track from the online game Gunbound and I thought it fitting for a Snow level because the music kind of brings up thoughts of a snowy place ;) Indeed, I think I remember the track only playing in those environments in the game, though maybe they're random? I don't remember, it was so long ago.
Link to track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLfT0bFMBO4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLfT0bFMBO4)
Finally, I must say that this is one of the best level titles I've managed to come up with in a really long time ^^ You know, Snow Way! is a pun on when you exclaim, "No way!" in reaction to maybe something unbelievable you heard or in shock about something. That is probably the reaction a player will have upon seeing this level hehe.
R2 - Intended as well! The level title of course is a reference to The Incredible Machine series of puzzle games.
Spoiler
Also might double as a reference to the figurative Doomsday Machine and quite possibly a subtle hint to the intended solution of a nuke level. Also as you might have noticed it is indeed my very first nuke level ^^ I once made the remark that I think pretty much every notable Lemmings level designer makes at least one nuke level. I guess it was finally that time for me hehe. The leftover skills are meant to be distractions in possibly getting players to react, "these won't help me get to the exit at all, how is it possible?" They will then try and see if they can conserve both the bomber and the digger for the end, but try as they might it's not possible since those skills are pretty much already locked elsewhere in the level. So, it will hopefully help them to discover that this is a nuke level.
:thumbsup: Also, I figured out what you meant with recording the videos now. As I pretty much know you by now, you intend to show solutions to the updated levels which were deemed backroutes in a later video. As I mentioned a few times, you really will love the intended solution to my R3 once you find it and when it's the only solution possible ;) But for now, we are still a bit far but hopefully the update I uploaded just now will do it!
@eric
Oh, I did not know I missed some sprites there.
Thanks for the notification!
Here is my replay for kaywhyn's R3 which "could" be somewhat intended.
Also a new replay for crane's R3 because the old one broke after the update (same solution though).
@IchoR3 - Getting closer but still not quite there. Indeed, you've proven both me and Crane wrong with the way we tried to see if the level could still somehow be cheesed, and you managed to succeed there :forehead: For V13, I changed up the terrain near the exit.
Spoiler
I definitely had a feeling one could somehow cheese the level with the final two Lemmings from the entrance, and indeed I missed that you could just make them build to hit their heads so that you get high enough to bash from below :forehead: Actually, you're the first to make me aware that it can happen on the far left side, so it never occurred to me for whatever reason! :XD:
Also, I don't know if it's just me, but your voice is extremely soft and quiet in these videos that I need to temporarily turn up the volume on my laptop and then put it back to where I usually have it at once I'm done watching them. I checked your videos of the 5 past LDC's and your voice is perfectly loud and clear, so no problems there. New headset? New recording setup? ???
QuoteAlso, I don't know if it's just me, but your voice is extremely soft and quiet in these videos that I need to temporarily turn up the volume on my laptop and then put it back to where I usually have it at once I'm done watching them. I checked your videos of the 5 past LDC's and your voice is perfectly loud and clear, so no problems there. New headset? New recording setup? ???
Noticed that as well. I think I just spoke a bit softer, but I also added an extra 2db of gain in OBS to counter that.
This could be it! ;)
Quote from: IchoTolot on July 30, 2024, 07:11:04 PM
This could be it! ;)
And, that's where you are correct! That is indeed now 100% intended. Great job! :thumbsup:
Spoiler
Here, I was inspired by your "Retspen's tomb" level! ;)
Quote
Noticed that as well. I think I just spoke a bit softer, but I also added an extra 2db of gain in OBS to counter that.
Ah, good to know. Thanks. Easily fixable ;)
Thanks to everyone who's played my levels! :)
Everyone's got the intended solution for Misaligned (I mean there really aren't many options), and it was interesting to read your (different) opinions. It's meant to be a minimalistic level, and will probably appear as part of an ensemble of other levels that similarly focus on one single idea.
For Cycle Decomposition, everyone's got a different solution.
Armani's solution is slightly different from mine, but very much in the spirit of my idea for this level.
Icho's solution cuts out one main idea, but is at least still somewhat in the spirit of the level (I'd like to fix that though).
Kaywhyn's solution is, as you already suspected, an egregious backroute that needs to be fixed.
I want to fix the level at some point, but unfortunately, I'll be on the road for the next two months (and haven't had the time to fix it until now). So the update will probably only come once the contest is over :(
my Rule 3 level uses dullstars l2_classic style uploaded here (which lowers the exit by a pixel which doesn't happen in the regular l2_classic)
This is why it appears 1 pixel too high in Kaywhyn's and Icho's video replay of my rule 3 level)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5122.0
My videos covering the LDC #30 contest entries are now up :)
Part 1 (Lix entries) - https://youtu.be/-TiJFEQo0rg (https://youtu.be/-TiJFEQo0rg)
Part 2 (NL Rule 1) - https://youtu.be/1rB0T_V7IGI (https://youtu.be/1rB0T_V7IGI)
Part 3 (NL Rule 2) - https://youtu.be/yPKQYor5YHA (https://youtu.be/yPKQYor5YHA)
Part 4 (NL Rule 3) - https://youtu.be/e5Nk7mb7nP4 (https://youtu.be/e5Nk7mb7nP4)
Part 5 (my levels) - https://youtu.be/sPnCUlZRmKk (https://youtu.be/sPnCUlZRmKk)
Also reattached my replay collection, as well as the intended solutions to my levels :)
Announcement: The update phase is now closed. So, this means the contest collection pack will no longer be updated to include any further updates to levels that might get posted in the update topic from this point on. Yes, I know this is a bit unusual, since the update phase would had normally closed on the 28th of July (last week), but that is because the playing phase for LDC #30 got delayed by a week due to Icho being busy setting up the voting for LOTY2023 at the start of June.
So, while the update phase is closed, there's still another 3 days before the end of the playing phase, which will close on the 8th of August, this Thursday. Then Icho will likely set up the voting over the weekend, perhaps after getting one final video showing updated solutions to any levels that were backroutes from a week ago, if I know him by now ;)
I know this isn't quite the intended solution, but I thought I should re-solve "Mr Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore" - it's based on my earlier solves, at least I think it is.
Quote from: Crane on August 05, 2024, 03:30:40 PM
I know this isn't quite the intended solution, but I thought I should re-solve "Mr Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore" - it's based on my earlier solves, at least I think it is.
It isn't quite intended, but it saves the same amount of lems, uses all the skills and so I am willing to let it slide. ;)
That's kind of you! I'm sorry I left it so late. It was only because I realised my replays don't work any more in V3 due to some scenery changes, but I recall that you said they were acceptable.
Will probably make the voting topic this weekend, so stay tuned! ;)