All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix Player!
NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jv3hp83izx90p1/Contest_24.zip?dl=1
Music: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzj959v2xe86mhk/Contest_24_Music.zip?dl=1
Rule 1 Levels
Armani's "Lemmings in a Rave" (V4)
IchoTolot's "Starstruck" (V2)
Kingshadow3's "OttoLicho's Sprudel Squires" (V4)
The Tomato Watcher's "And Now, the Incredible Shimmier!" (V2)
kaywhyn's "Shimmier Lab Rules" (V3)
Rule 2 Levels
Armani's "GOTTA SWIM FAST!" (V1)
IchoTolot's "Violent Changes" (V1)
Kingshadow3's "Silence in the Library" (V3)
Mantha16's "BoLEMian RhapsoLEMdy" (V1)
NieSch's "Aerial Antics" (V9)
The Tomato Watcher's "So Near Yet So Far..." (V4)
kaywhyn's "Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle" (V10)
Rule 3 Levels
Armani's "Trial by Fire" (13R2 - Make a level with at least two intended solutions) (V1)
IchoTolot's "Alluring Shimmer" (10R2 - Make a Fun/Tame level) (V1)
Kingshadow3's "Revenge of the King" (19R2 - Make a level whose terrain spells your username) (V5)
tan x dx's "EMERGENCY EVACUATION" (22R3 - Make a level with at least one neutral and at least one zombie (V7)
The Tomato Watcher's "What Goes Up..." (15R2 - Make a minimal-size level with at most 10 lemmings) (V1)
kaywhyn's "Not the Annoying Gap in the Floor Again!" (11R3 - Make a level with no constructive skills) (V3)
You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5761.0
Playing Phase will be closed on 12th of December!
Updates will close on 9th of December!
Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.
Link to update topic (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5816.0)
Already tackled through The Tomato Watcher's Rule 1 "And Now, the Incredible Shimmier!". This could be a backroute as I have a left over shimmier.
EDIT: Solved The Tomato Watcher's "So Near Yet So Far...". Got a basher left over so likely a backroute.
The first one is indeed a backroute, but I know how to enforce the intended solution, so I'll get right on that.
The second one is intended. The extra basher is there as an anti-frustration measure in case the spacing of the lemmings isn't kind to you. It also makes the skill counts match. ;)
I also solved And Now, the Incredible Shimmier but with a bomber left over. Looks simple at first but it a bit tricky though I suspect this is backroute.
Not what I intended but a nice solution nonetheless! :D It's valid enough for me.
"And Now, the Incredible Shimmier" V2 cleared. This time all skills are used.
Nice work, Kingshadow! :thumbsup:
I solved rule 1 levels 8-) Both have some leftover skills but I think I found the main trick at least ???
also solved rule 2 levels 8-)
Save Me Once More
Nice puzzle with various kinds of permanent skills zombies 8-) Picking up the disarmer skills while avoiding zombie was the most difficult part. I have some leftover skills so this could be slight(?) backroute.
Violent Change
I bet this is intended. Very nice level and this is both my favourite and the most difficult level so far :thumbsup: The 2 laserers positions are slightly precise but not too much. I think it's really hard to see the usage of basher to make a hole to the pillar so the slider lemming can go in.
boLEMmian RhapsoLEMdy
Nice and pretty level :thumbsup: I like the flower decoration and letter terrains from the chalk tileset.
Aerial Antics
It's funny that the worker lemming has to jump/glide/slider all over the level just to save a builder :D This level really shows how interesting slider/glider athlete can be :thumbsup:
So Near Yet So Far
I think this is a backroute. ;P I don't think you wanted the whole crowd(instead of a single worker lemming) to take the short cut thorough the square terrain
I posted an update for the packwith 3 more entries from kaywhyn! :)
To Armani's replays:
QuoteI solved rule 1 levels 8-) Both have some leftover skills but I think I found the main trick at least
That's partly a backroute and partly an improvement I want to include. ;) It's not very far off though!
I posted + included an update in the pack. :)
Your solution to my R2 is 100% intended! Well done! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Quote from: Armani on November 08, 2021, 04:11:06 PM
Aerial Antics
It's funny that the worker lemming has to jump/glide/slider all over the level just to save a builder :D This level really shows how interesting slider/glider athlete can be :thumbsup:
Well done! 95% intended but I made some small changes for V2.
Quote from: ArmaniI solved rule 1 levels 8-) Both have some leftover skills but I think I found the main trick at least ???
Your solution of my Rule 1 is, like mobius's, not what I intended, but it's perfectly acceptable. :)
Quote from: ArmaniSo Near Yet So Far
I think this is a backroute. ;P I don't think you wanted the whole crowd(instead of a single worker lemming) to take the short cut thorough the square terrain
Your solution of my Rule 2 however... That's really bad. :forehead: I'm gonna have to think long and hard about what to do about that. :(
Solved The Tomato Watcher's "What Goes Up..." (Rule 3). This seems like the intended solution.
EDIT: Solved kaywhyn's "Shimmier Lab Rules". If this is the intended solution, it's a great one! :thumbsup:
@Kingshadow3: Nope, not intended for my R1. It completely misses the tricks I intended! :XD: Part of it was my error, as I didn't check to see if I placed the terrain carefully enough. So, for V2 shifted some of the terrain, as well as added some terrain, and added two masher traps (before, I did a laser trap instead, but I quickly realized a way one could bypass it, and so I reuploaded the correct V2). As a result of the added traps, I needed to provide another shimmier. Let's see if this stops your backrouting now on my R1! :P
For everyone else, I uploaded V2 of my R2, as I realized some horrible backroutes earlier tonight. I don't have any solutions from anyone for it yet, but I did some preemptive fixes in it by more of my testing. I don't know if it'll be enough, but we'll see.
I'm amazed at how fast some solutions came in within the first few hours of the playing phase opening up! :laugh: I will likely start going through the levels of this contest within a week or so. I will have Thursday and Friday off work, so I will have more time to play through the levels then.
Solved kaywhyn's "Shimmier Lab Rules" V2. This one looks more intended but it also could still be a backroute...
Quote from: Kingshadow3 on November 09, 2021, 11:41:29 AM
Solved kaywhyn's "Shimmier Lab Rules" V2. This one looks more intended but it also could still be a backroute...
100% intended! Nice job! :thumbsup: Thanks for resolving and letting me know if my R1 is now properly patched up :) Also, thank you for the compliments on the V1 of this level. What do you think now, still a fine level? I think this is a first for me in a contest in that I have a level backroute proof after only two versions :laugh: Of course, there's a possibility that it still can be backrouted, but I don't think it's likely here anymore.
Quote from: kaywhyn on November 09, 2021, 12:40:15 PM
Quote from: Kingshadow3 on November 09, 2021, 11:41:29 AM
Solved kaywhyn's "Shimmier Lab Rules" V2. This one looks more intended but it also could still be a backroute...
100% intended! Nice job! :thumbsup: Thanks for resolving and letting me know if my R1 is now properly patched up :) Also, thank you for the compliments on the V1 of this level. What do you think now, still a fine level? I think this is a first for me in a contest in that I have a level backroute proof after only two versions :laugh: Of course, there's a possibility that it still can be backrouted, but I don't think it's likely here anymore.
It's still a great one. Great work!! :thumbsup:
solved rule3 levels 8-)
Alluring Shimmer
Nice and easy level, also it's very pretty ;) I think it well fit to laserer introduction level for the NL introduction pack.
EMERGENCY EVACUATION
probably a backroute :P My solution is too simple with a leftover builder and a walker.
What Goes Up...
The solution is quite straight forward, still a nice one!
Not the Annoying Gap in the Floor Again!
I'm already well aware that you are a big fan of builderless level from your LPs and this level shows ;) It was pretty nice puzzle with lots of possible way to solve.
and resolved updated levels(+new levels)
Starstruck
It's similar to my first solution but now I saved 3rd lemming, used all the skills and meet the save requirement exactly. 8-)
Shimmier Lab Rules
This feels intended. I like this level very much :thumbsup: Using a builder backward so one lemming can shimmy to the left and lemmings from the hatch can shimmy to the right is my favorite part. Also I can see you are also improving in visual part :thumbsup:
Save Ne Once More
Now I used all the skills. It took me a while to solve.
Aerial Antics
Oh.. Now I have too many leftover jumpers :XD: And there's a spot where you can save a builder and I don't think this is what you intended(building over the gaps part after the first OWW, you will see what I mean if you watch the replay)
So Near Yet So Far
I think you successfully enforce your solution. ;) I also have some leftover skills but I think this is just an anti-frustration measure as you said ???
Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle
Something tells me that this is not intended. :((especially the exit part) I also have some leftover skills.
@Armani Oof, that's a backroute. I think this can be resolved with some skill changes. I'll upload shortly.
Quote from: Armani on November 09, 2021, 04:35:03 PM
Aerial Antics
Oh.. Now I have too many leftover jumpers :XD: And there's a spot where you can save a builder and I don't think this is what you intended(building over the gaps part after the first OWW, you will see what I mean if you watch the replay)
You... clever person! But it was easy to fix. ;)
@Armani I suppose I did, but I messed up in the worst possible way.
Spoiler
There were supposed to be two more Bashers. If I hadn't forgotten them, you wouldn't have had to wait for good lemming spacing like you did. I hate that the level is still solvable like this, in this finicky annoying way. The moment I get out of school I meed to fix that!
@Armani
This is now intended for my R1! :thumbsup: Great job! :thumbsup:
@armani
Not quite intended for my Rule 2 level even though you used all the skills, so I
1) added terrain
2) added traps
3) added buttons
4) added steel
I think it's a good reminder to paste this from the update topic:
Quote
Please follow these rules for updates:
1. When posting a new updated version of a level, remove any old updated versions of that level --> Have all your recent updates stored in 1 post! I will delete such old posts eventually if the author doesn't; so don't store any important information in them.
2. Make a new post for a new update; do not edit your most recent post. You may, however, post updates to multiple entries (if you have more than one) in the same post.
As already I didn't expect and am seeing quite a mess, please remember to only make one post and to delete older posts and not have multiple posts. Otherwise it will get quite messy and chaotic finding the most recent versions of your levels, as they can easily get lost in the mix this way! Icho will eventually delete such posts, but please take the time and responsibility to delete your own posts yourself by observing 1 and 2 quoted above ( though one user has already corrected this, so thank you for that :))
@armani I will address your solutions to my R2 and R3 later on, as I'm not at a computer atm.
@Armani Ok, I finally got a chance to look at your solutions to all three of my contest entries, and here is my feedback:
R1 - 100% intended! :thumbsup: I'm glad you also liked this level, and honestly I kind of feel proud of this one too, probably slightly a bit more than my Bubble Trouble R1 level from LDC #22, if only because it needed more patches than this one :laugh: Even then, it was apparently a very well-received level for my very first attempt at level making, although to be fair it might had simply been due to the grouping my level was in. It was the second most popular R1 level, after rtw's "Warmth," falling short by just 1 vote in the rule voteoff :laugh:
Thanks for the compliments on my visual design! :thumbsup: Honestly, I'm still terrible at art, and I don't think it's that good at all in this level, but you thinking otherwise and reading this from you here really made my day :) So, I guess I am in a way getting better with the visuals, but it can still use more work, as there's definitely room for improvement.
Spoiler
I wanted to enforce the Dolly Dimple builder trick so that the player needs to send a shimmier over to the left. This is important, because you have to realize that it's not possible to build from the right side to get to the exit. The builder stops 1 pixel short :evil: Or, you could make it so that you can seal the gap from the right side, but, if you do that, then the digger leaves a pixel of wall to the right and therefore the crowd won't be able to get to the exit. Therefore, the only way to help the crowd get to the exit is to build from the left side.
- This is a bad backroute. I've uploaded a V3 that added steel, added a vine trap, and made the cloners pickups. I don't know if this will be enough to enforce the intended solution yet, but it should hopefully at least eliminate the big ones. Not to mention that my head was kind of hurting a lot thinking about if there's still the possibility of the level being backrouted, but well, I shall see when I get more solutions to this level from this community :laugh: I do have some other fixes in mind in case it does get backrouted again, but I'll wait for some solutions first. I have to suspect that my R2 will be the hardest one to both force the intended solution, as well as the hardest to find :P
edit: reuploaded V3, as I ended up shifting around some pickups some more.
R3 - The title here is a reference to Insane Steve's level "The Annoying 1-Pixel Gap," because if you were provided even 1 builder it would already be a solve. Therefore, it's a no builders level. However, I went much further than that here with one of my own no builders level. This would also be the very first such level from me :P And yes, you are correct that I'm a huge fan of these levels.
As you might had guessed, this level is open-ended, which would make this the very first level of mine in which I don't have any specific intended solution in mind. So, I will accept nearly any solution to this level. However,
Spoiler
you did bypass having to get the crowd up the level on the right side on the other side of the gap in the floor, which I would like the player to do.
So, for V2 I shifted and added some terrain. The replay solution I have needed some minor tweaks to work again, but while doing so, I was thinking of maybe reducing the skillset, as it seems that I was able to save a lot of skills. However, I will leave the skillset alone for the time being, as I will change it if I am getting a lot of solutions that are saving too many skills, meaning there's a bit too much degrees of freedom.
Thanks again for playing my levels and the replays, as well as the compliments on my R1! :thumbsup:
more replays. 8-)
Save Me Once More
This feels intended. I used all the skills and the solution doesn't have any fiddly or timing heavy things now
Aerial Antics
attached 2 replays. The first one is probably not intended. I totally bypassed rightmost/leftmost structures. And the second replay seems intended to me. ;)
Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle
This seems better than my previous solution. I have a leftover bomber so it's still not fully intended.
EMERGENCY EVACUATION
One more backroute :evil: I have a leftover builder and this solution is not viable in version1
Not the Annoying Gap in the Floor Again!
I tweaked my previous solution a bit. If you reduce the skillset in the future, I think making this level 4 of everything can be a good idea. It's still open-ended enough but you can't wasted that much skill to clear the level.
@Armani
There was a minisule thing you did different but your solution now is perfectly acceptable.
Quote from: Armani on November 10, 2021, 04:09:46 PM
Aerial Antics
attached 2 replays. The first one is probably not intended. I totally bypassed rightmost/leftmost structures. And the second replay seems intended to me. ;)
First replay: clever backroutes again! I fixed this in V5.
Second replay: 100% intended. :)
Regarding your R3 level Armani: I just love the way you made this a "two intended solutions"-level. Creativity at its finest. :thumbsup:
@Armani Still a backroute! I've amended my post in the other thread.
@Armani
R2 - Definitely closer than the previous solution but still a backroute as you correctly guessed. It still avoided some elements that I wanted to enforce, so for V4 I added OWAs, moved some terrain near the exit, as well as added some in that area, moved a button, and -1 blocker and +1 basher. This might even force the player better in the correct direction of the solution, but let's see. In a way, I'm not confident that the intended solution is completely forced now, but even if it isn't my hope is that at least it's still yet closer than all previous solutions you sent me :P
R3 - I almost wanted to say your solution is acceptable, but for V3 I decided to add just slightly more terrain on either side of the exit, and as a result I removed the 10 tons traps on either side of it. It's really just to force players to use more skills. Also, thanks for the feedback on the skillset, and as a result I took your suggestion and reduced the skillset to 4-of-everything. It should be more challenging this way now while still being open-ended, just more restrictive and not allowing too much degrees of freedom. Of course, I made sure the level's still possible with the new reduced skillset, and it is, as I have a new replay proof, since I needed to tweak my previous one a bit due to the changes I made. Heck, V2 and earlier might even be possible with 3-of-everything, but I haven't tried, and I don't want it to be super tight, and so I'll just settle with the 4-of-everything skillset.
In any case, your solution is way more efficient than mine, and if I accept yours for V3, then I'll just say any other future solutions from everyone else at this point is acceptable for me.
Thanks again for resolving my levels and helping me to improve them! :) I can tell you're enjoying them just as much as the other entries in this contest. Yes, I might not have quite reached Icho, Nepster, or Armani difficulty in my levels, but I'm slowly getting there... I think :laugh:
resolved updated levels.
Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle
It's probably still not intended.
EMERGECY EVACUATION
attached several replays. I don't think any of them are intended though :(
@Armani
R2 - Yup, still not intended, and this one seemed to have gotten much further than the previous solutions. For V5, I added some more terrain, shifted some terrain above the exit, shifted the exit and the two grass vine traps near it, added some vine traps, and moved the 4 cloner pickups to a different location. I really had to think long and hard on how to fix it up. I have to suspect that the level has become much harder as a result, but at the same time it might even force or at least lead more in the correction direction of the intended solution :P
R3 - Although your new solution seems somewhat more efficient than your previous one, I will say it's now acceptable for my liking. For maybe some others, they might not be as efficient in the skill usages, but as I mentioned previously I don't want the skillset to be even tighter than the new modified skillset in V3. Even with the skillset, the level is still open-ended while not allowing as much degrees of freedom that the 5-of-everything skillset did. At the same time, I haven't checked to see if the level is possible with 3-of-everything, but even if it is I don't want the skillset to be too tight. 4-of-everything feels just perfect per your feedback ;)
Thus, only my R2 needs resolving on your end :)
@Armani Definitely all backroutes :P Check the other thread for an update!
I've started an LP of some of these contest levels, and I was able to solve all the R1's, although one needed a second video. Here are my replays for the R1 levels, minus the replay for Icho's level and mine, as I had the honor of pre-testing his levels once again. I will attach solutions to Icho's levels and to all of my levels later on once I deem solutions to each of them acceptable.
I for sure backrouted Armani's level, and possibly KingShadow3's as well, although perhaps it's still acceptable despite the leftover skill? The Tomato Watcher's R1 should be intended.
LP Video Links:
Rule 1 Part 1:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5_EEFFxTAs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5_EEFFxTAs)
Rule 1 Part 2:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9eFf7xJTmw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9eFf7xJTmw)
Armani's Lemmings in a Rave V1
Sorry Armani, it appears that I broke your R1 :P This did involve extreme precision and timing with the laserer and basher in order to build across the gap without leaving it open.
Difficult one but quite a nice one! I really like what you did with the title, where the first word is an anagram of IchoTolot. So, I'm wondering if this level is a tribute to one of his levels from the United pack.
Spoiler
it really reminds me of the level "The Drunken Knights of Clausthal," so did you get inspiration for this level from that level of his? Almost uses the exact same trick as that one.
Nice level. Easiest R1 level IMO.
I will post the rest of my replays and LP videos once I get all the other levels solved. So far, I've had an attempt at two R2 levels and wasn't able to solve either one within the time I spent recording, so it looks like the R2's will need an extra solving session in general.
Resolved updated 2 levels 8-) : Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle / EMERGENCY EVACUATION
I attached two replays for both respectively. Unfortunately all 4 seem to be backroutes.
@Armani Those are both backroutes, but you're getting very close! :thumbsup:
@kaywhyn Spoiler
Yes. My rule 1 was inspired by IchoTolot's "The Drunken Knights of Clausthal".
Anyway, your solution is a backroute Armani didn't find. I've uploaded my V2 in the update topic.
@Armani
Ah, this is starting to feel like LDC #22 all over again, where you kept backrouting my R3, but this time it's for my R2 :( Both of your solutions are backroutes, although your second solution is closer than your first one in many ways, but overall there's still some things either solutions miss. In particular, there are 3 tricks that I haven't seen in any of your solutions that you keep avoiding! I think I know how KingShadow3 feels now with your uncanny ability to practically backroute anything any of us throw at you :devil: And I thought I was good at backrouting :crylaugh:
For V6, more shifting of terrain and more terrain added, and added another grass vine trap. For this, I pretty much took each of your solutions one at a time and tried to block out each one. However, your first solution is, once again, due to a terrain misplacement error on my part, as well as how I keep forgetting to test about terrain being passable or not without any additional skills needed. I think this will finally be enough, but let's see.
@KingShadow3
Ah, good to know! :) Backroute, huh? I'm guessing I'm not too far off.
Some more replays to Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle / EMERGENCY EVACUATION
The two solutions to EMERGENCY EVACUATION are almost unchanged from yesterday, basically same but with better timings.
@Armani More backroutes, but I think the latest changes might force your hand! :evil:
@Armani
All three solutions to my R2 are bad backroutes in some way :XD: However, I am happy to see that another one of my tricks I intended has been used or at least a very close form of it in the solutions. However, there's still two others that aren't being used. For V7, I added another button and a vine grass trap which should definitely 100% enforce it now (never thought it would be so hard to enforce here!), and as a result it might even completely enforce the other trick I intended in another part of the level as well, added some OWAs, and some more terrain. Unfortunately, I think these fixes have resulted in more precision in the intended solution than I originally wanted, but well, sometimes that's the way it is :P Once again, I have to suspect that all these changes have clearly made this one one of my hardest levels in this contest :laugh:
Thank you so much for your patience and persistence in resolving each new version of my R2, even if I've been slowly getting flustered in trying to think of fixes to implement, as I'm definitely starting to see that sometimes it's just as much work to backroute fix than it is to solve the levels. Even then, I'm still more of a level solver than a level maker ;P
Some more replays to Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle / EMERGENCY EVACUATION
Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle
Yeah I personally think backroute-proofing a level is a lot harder than making the level and infinitely harder than solving the level, especially if the level is difficult. Whenever I think my certain level is backroute-proof, there's always another backroute I missed :evil: From the new vine trap and added button, I suspect my second solution might have another intended trick.(building over the water gap and to the digger hole to contain the crowd in the infinite loop) I always spares one or more cloner so far, so maybe that's the key to the missing intended trick...
EMERGENCY EVACUATION
The laserer skill is sooo powerful !! :evil: It makes the fencer skill looks like a trash!
@ArmaniYour second solution is the closest to the intended solution that I've gotten from you thus far, but unfortunately still a backroute :( For V8, I removed and shifted some terrain, as well as extended some OWAs and added up OWAs close to it. I'm really praying that this is hopefully the last time I need to update this level, but I'm not confident about that.
Spoiler
The builder is almost correct, I just haven't seen the correct intended trick with it yet. However, I think with the OWAs I added it should be very obvious now, so I think unfortunately the very hard solution I had in mind is now a bit clearer thanks to the visuals. Perhaps this will finally force it, but I'm not hopeful atm, with your uncanny ability to backroute practically anything :evil:
And yes, I'm finally seeing the correct trick right above the exit.
I think you're right about it being harder and more work to backroute proof a very difficult level. As strange as it might sound, sometimes one can spend far longer fixing up a level than the time spent solving it. In the worst case scenario, it's not possible to enforce the intended solution and hence it's either discard and uses the backrouted part in the solution, accept the alternative, or something else. I think I've now reached the same number of patches for my R2 as my R3 from LDC #22 :crylaugh:
@Armani Regarding your second solution:
Spoiler
You got it! :thumbsup:
The original intention was for the fencers to be red herrings. They would be too slow to use and so the zombies would always overrun the lemmings. This would force the player to use the laserer to blast three holes by using the teleporter.
Unfortunately it didn't work out in practice; the fencer is still fast enough by itself. I could simply remove the fencer entirely, but I fear that would make the solution too obvious. I'll have a think, and see what I can come up with.
Once again, nicely done! :)
resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle / EMERGENCY EVACUATION
I know my solution to EMERGENCY EVACUATION is intended and also think my solution to Clone Survival in the Jungle is now very close to intended.
Clone Survival in the Jungle
Finally my solution contains 3 certain tricks. 1)Block at the button and later release him with a bomber from below/2)cloning builder three times to make a turning point for the crowd/3)canceling basher with a blocker. I'm not quite sure if my solution is intended cos the 3rd trick is something you can't see very often in custom level due to it being precise and timing heavy.
EMERGENCY EVACUATION
Ah that makes sense then. So far I've thought the skillset is way too generous for this level. Now this level gives only 2 destructive skills which means you have to blast at least 2 holes with the laserer.
Quote from: Armani on November 18, 2021, 04:38:18 AM
resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle
...my solution to Clone Survival in the Jungle is now very close to intended.
Clone Survival in the Jungle
Finally my solution contains 3 certain tricks. 1)Block at the button and later release him with a bomber from below/2)cloning builder three times to make a turning point for the crowd/3)canceling basher with a blocker. I'm not quite sure if my solution is intended cos the 3rd trick is something you can't see very often in custom level due to it being precise and timing heavy.
You are correct with the first two tricks, not so with the third one. I almost wanted to accept this solution as an alternative, as it simply uses a few skills in different locations from the intended, but as it's already quite precise, I would like to reduce it for players wherever I can help it. I wanted to avoid doing so for a long time, but alas I caved and went with it. The only changes made with V9 are more pickups. From what you described, it sounds like this level's still really hard despite the presence of a few pickups. So, I think you're in agreement that my R2 is my hardest level out of my other two entries :P
resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle.
I invested one more basher so the timing things are not needed anymore.
@ArmaniThis would had been an acceptable solution for me, but as there is one part in the spoiler that's not supposed to happen, as well as another part that isn't quite intended, let's try one more time with V10, where I made the blockers pickups and two of the bashers pickups.
Spoiler
No, you're not allowed to bomb at the far right to make a turning point for them! :devil: Otherwise, I think this would had been an acceptable solution, but as there's still one part of it not quite intended another patch is needed
Solved all the R2 levels. Replays attached. Also all links to my LP of the R2 levels
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylt1Bzjse2M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylt1Bzjse2M)
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBim9WFufYM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBim9WFufYM)
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpXzyO1UVC8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpXzyO1UVC8)
Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGDcOf6o4YI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGDcOf6o4YI)
Part 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFinZKRSDY8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFinZKRSDY8)
Part 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hazpiJRFKjk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hazpiJRFKjk)
Part 7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asuFDX9owzg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asuFDX9owzg)
Part 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H69pPKn8q9I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H69pPKn8q9I)
In general, the R2 levels were quite tough. At the same time, finally figuring them out was quite satisfying. In particular I must say KingShadow3's R2 was super satisfying to figure out.
Armani's GOTTA SWIM FAST R2V1
You've already mentioned that I got the intended solution here. Nice level. I don't know why I struggled with this one, as now that I look back, it's not that hard at all. A lot of my attempts kept coming up a laserer short.
eric's Save Me Once More R2V4
Deceivingly tough, although moreso than the level found in the OL. Unfortunately, my solution is a backroute, as I have a lot of skills leftover :P However, I do question the eligibility of this level for the contest, because you already released this level in your own level pack earlier this year, and so I don't think you're allowed to do this, taking a level from your pack, making some changes, and then release it as a contest level. However, your "Room is Boiling" is fine for LDC #21, as it was first a contest level and then you later publicly released it in your own level pack. Also, I got to say I'm still a bit upset that you haven't come forth to make up to me when I asked you twice to run by me any changes you made to my PSP conversion pack and you didn't do so by ignoring my requests and doing as you please with them.
KingShadow3's Silence in the Library R2V1
This one was quite a tough one, but a really good one! It's quite obvious what the general solution is, where you need to guide the preassigned climber hatch to the exit on the far right, and similarly guide the preassigned slider hatch to the far left exit, but how to do so is hard. In particular, I had a much harder time trying to figure out how to get the climber hatch to the exit. I do have a shimmier leftover, but I'm guessing my solution is still fine? I'm not sure if the area with the OWW is a red herring.
mantha16's Bolemian Rhapsolem R2V1
I like how the title is a twist on the Queen song "Bohemian Rhapsody." Nice to see a somewhat easy level here, but it still packs a punch. I like how you put your username and a heart with an arrow through it not far from it. Nothing you did, but I personally dislike the color purple. Again, not your fault.
Niesch's Aerial Antics R2V5
Deceivingly tough level here, just like most of your levels. In particular, it can be hard to find how to save your builders for the critical parts. Nice job here with a quite decent puzzle! This is an outdated version, where you already told me my solution is a backroute, so you patched it out with V6 by putting steel where the masher trap is.
The Tomato Watcher's So Near Yet So Far... R2V3
Nice level with just bashers and builders. This definitely reminds me of WillLem's R1 LDC #22 level, because it also is bashers and builders. I could have had a basher left had I placed a builder near the beginning more carefully, but this solution should be fine.
Quote from: kaywhyn on November 19, 2021, 11:09:01 AM
KingShadow3's Silence in the Library R2V1
This one was quite a tough one, but a really good one! It's quite obvious what the general solution is, where you need to guide the preassigned climber hatch to the exit on the far right, and similarly guide the preassigned slider hatch to the far left exit, but how to do so is hard. In particular, I had a much harder time trying to figure out how to get the climber hatch to the exit. I do have a shimmier leftover, but I'm guessing my solution is still fine? I'm not sure if the area with the OWW is a red herring.
I regret to say that there is a backroute in your solution. :XD:
Spoiler
It's what happens at the top of the level with releasing the climbers and getting the sliders to their exit.
I've uploaded my V2.
Uploaded V5 of my Rule 2 level which more steel is added to prevent the bad backroute found by kaywhyn.
Quote from: kaywhyn on November 19, 2021, 11:09:01 AM
The Tomato Watcher's So Near Yet So Far... R2V3
Nice level with just bashers and builders. This definitely reminds me of WillLem's R1 LDC #22 level, because it also is bashers and builders. I could have had a basher left had I placed a builder near the beginning more carefully, but this solution should be fine.
Minor backroute there, just updated my level to version 4 to address it.
Spoiler
I would recommend saving that basher you mentioned this time, since in my intended solution, you have less leeway unless you want to deal with annoying lemming timing. ;)
resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle.
This might be it :laugh: 95% sure
@ArmaniFinally! This is 100% intended. Great job :thumbsup:
Spoiler
As you can see, I was trying to get you to go away from cloning the miner to send a climber up the very far left, but alas it appears I failed spectacularly in that regard for 9 versions :XD: That's why I hesitated to make the bombers and blockers pickups too, because I felt the solution would be way more obvious then. Still, I wanted to leave it as a complete red herring so that if you try it you'll always be at least a skill short. However, as I prompt some feedback about the difficulty from you on Discord, you have told me that it's still a very hard to find solution despite the new pickups, so I've been proven wrong there about the solution being more obvious.
Finally solved all the R3 levels and hence the entire contest pack. Here are my replays. I have also attached the solutions to my levels just so I don't forget to do so later on in case anyone is interested in the intended solutions to them, with the exception of my R3, which is an open-ended level and hence I don't have any specific solution in mind. Or, you can also watch Part 5 linked below, as I show off the solutions to my levels, along with some possibly interesting facts/explanations which may or may not be of interest to you :laugh:
Also links to all my LP videos of the Rule 3 levels:
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uteN7jD3YW4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uteN7jD3YW4)
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidkniIhmtE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidkniIhmtE)
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxm900TuNVA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxm900TuNVA)
Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-PeWc0R9Rc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-PeWc0R9Rc)
Part 5 and Solutions to my Contest Levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BrAJdX4Psk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BrAJdX4Psk)
These levels were also challenging, although maybe not as much as the R2 ones, which I felt were the hardest, possibly including my own, but I still feel it isn't as hard as all the other R2's.
Armani's Trial By Fire V1
Nice level here! Looking back, I don't know why I struggled with this level too, as, at least for the left set of pickup skills, it turns out I simply missed building one staircase so that I can send another lemming over the top, as otherwise only a climber can go through the top. I think it's because I was too focused on making sure that no one else would fall and get trapped at the bottom. Not to mention that it might had been a waste of a builder otherwise. Nice job tripping me up with the red herrings :laugh: Here, I don't know if this is a slight backroute, as I ended up saving 1 over the requirement :P
I think I will try and find the second intended solution with the set of pickups on the right off-camera. I've also pointed it out on Discord, but the track for your R3 is super loud, to the point that it can potentially be deafening. I'm not sure if there's anything you can do on your end to make it softer, though, but for the player one could simply reduce the device's volume.
Kingshadow3's Revenge of the King
You already told me that my solution is "pretty much the intended solution," although in Armani's case he was able to save a walker, but it's due to very good timing. I really like this level of yours, particularly since I love the puzzle and the fact that this is in the Circus L2 tileset, which is one of my favorites from the game :thumbsup: So, it seems that you've learned so much with being able to make difficult levels in a very short amount of time. Not sure if you been playing a lot of difficult packs, or if you been watching my LP videos on various packs to help with this. Needless to say, I'm quite impressed by your levels even though this is only your second contest!
tan x's EMERGENCY EVACUATION
Wow, I really like this level of yours! :thumbsup: For such a small area to do work in, it's a very deceptively difficult level. As it turns out, I did the part with the laserer wrong this entire time and instead kept doing it on the right side :forehead: I especially love the trick of assigning a lemming a laserer right in front of the trigger of the teleporter so that when it catches him, he continues to do so in order to release the neutrals. Before doing that, he makes a tunnel for the crowd to get up via two builders. I really like the timing here so that the teleporter stops him before the laserer can breach the ceiling and release the top zombie entrance. The rest of it is simply getting everyone to the exit before the bottom left zombie entrance catches up and infects any of them. As a result, I absolutely love the sense of urgency due to the zombies, the time limit, AND from the level title. Nice job with stumping me for a while here :laugh:
All rightie, I think I will return in about a week to resolve updated levels where my solution is a backroute. I will be very busy in the upcoming week due to the Thanksgiving holiday and hence there won't be as much activity from me during that time, particularly since my brother will be in town and I'll be busy spending time with him that I otherwise won't be able to after this holiday is over. I need a break from these contest levels, anyway. These are all challenging but in a good way! :thumbsup:
Close enough ;)
There're some minor differences between your solution and mine but that's fine. I will attach my first solution to the level rather than explaining the differences one by one.
Yeah I agree that the music to my rule3 level is quite loud. I'm the kind of person who listening to music at high volume while studying, drawing, taking shower, literally anytime. Well I watched part of your video and I figure that the loud music can be annoying to LPers and viewers. :( Probably I've got to pick the music more carefully next time.
Oh wow, nice solution there with the skillset I collected :P Also, I forgot to mention it, but in Part 5 after I showed off my solution to my R3, I want to let you know that I also show off your solution to it, as I really love your solution in how extremely efficient it is in terms of the amount of skills you were able to save :thumbsup:
@kaywhyn A correct solution! Well done! :thumbsup: I enjoyed watching your videos. It's always very entertaining to see you explain your thought process. :)
Quote from: ∫tan x dx on November 21, 2021, 03:48:26 PM
@kaywhyn A correct solution! Well done! :thumbsup: I enjoyed watching your videos. It's always very entertaining to see you explain your thought process. :)
Hi tan x, thanks so much for letting me know that my solution to your R3 is intended! As usual, I'm very happy to hear that you've been enjoying watching me solve levels and hearing my thoughts on how I go about doing it in real time on camera :thumbsup: I hope that you've enjoyed hearing insights on my own contest levels in the latest LP video as well, even if I kept going off on tangents :laugh: As you might have gathered, I'm still more of a level solver than a level maker :P However, I have not ruled out the possibility of a future level pack of my own ;)
Sadly, I have to disqualify a level due to violation of rule 1c (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2246.0):
Eric Derkovits's "Save Me Once More"
I was made aware that said level had a public prior release in "Angry Lemmings" as "Mayhem 29": https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4965.msg90037#msg90037
There were some changes: The decorations changed, buttons, traps and extra steel were introduced, but it shares the exact same skillset and general layout and apart from the decoration changes the changes fell more like backroute fixes.
As a result:
I will leave the level inside the contest pack, but it won't be accounted for in the voting.
Sorry for only catching this only now and not before the start of the playing phase, but sadly I cannot know + remember every single level in every pack release.
Thanks to the person who made me aware of this and sorry for the inconveniance.
Due to a personal request I also removed the level from the pack now.
As things seem to slow down a bit, I will try and record my playthrough of the contest levels this weekend. :)
Alright here is my playthrough of all contest levels. :)
Videos will be released in about 1 hr 30 min (6 pm UTC).
Rule 1: https://youtu.be/CuKf_YHQyZo
Rule 2 Part 1: https://youtu.be/h8_73xvOwUo
Rule 2 Part 2: https://youtu.be/7dLYZqJxiQs
Rule 3 Part 1: https://youtu.be/qgJAjiISFhM
Rule 3 Part 2: https://youtu.be/bVNBYRtit2o
Icho's Own Levels: https://youtu.be/D_7IY72GoC0
Replays are also attached! :)
One remark regarding KingShadows R2 level (the library one):
It seems the level unintentionally uses a currently bugged slider mechanic. This will be patched out with the next big NL release.
It revolves around a slider not turning around after an attempted slide at the edge of a builder, because the gap in which he should go into is quite small and right above the ground.
See the following topic for details: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5826.0
I also highlighted and explained in the video how to easily fix this by extending/moving a few terrain pieces by a couple of pixels. So no big hassle fixing this. ;)
I've patched my levels again, removing backroutes as well as fixing my R2 level so that it should (hopefully) work with future NL releases.
@IchoR1: The first solution is indeed 100% intended, the second one is a backroute as you correctly guessed. For V3, I added some terrain to block off what you did at the end :P A confirmation that you can't do what you did in your backroute solution in this new version would be nice ;)
Spoiler
You're absolutely correct that the Dolly Dimple backwards builder is the main trick for the level :thumbsup: Another key point is to realize that you cannot build from the right side, as you'll always stop a pixel short to reach the exit. However, it appears that I failed to take into account that you can let the lemming walk for a bit before building. Hence, to completely enforce that the player must build from the left side, I added some terrain so that it still looks appealing but you unfortunately cannot reach the exit from the right side because the builder will stop short, no matter how much digging down the pillar you do before cancelling.
Your solution is 100% intended. Well done! :thumbsup: I am curious if you think this is a hard level despite the pickups, though ???
Spoiler
For a moment, I got really scared that you were going to backroute the level when you sent up the clone up the left side, as that was the part that I was trying so hard to stop Armani from using, but alas I failed spectacularly there for 10 versions! :XD: However, you both thought the hardest part was cloning the builder 3 times to make a wall, i.e, a blocker substitute. When you were trying to figure out how to save a blocker, at some point I screamed, "You know what's needed Icho, you just haven't realized it yet. You enforced this trick in one of your United levels!" Also, I found it interesting that you learned the release of a blocker with a nearby bomber trick from an LP2 level. I don't recall any level from the pack that requires it, though ???
Both you and Armani also thought the bottom left opening was a design error. It is not, actually! Think "The Glacier Station" from your Reunion pack! Many people thought it was for decoration, when in fact it's necessary for the solution. It's the exact same thing here. It's completely intentional to stop the cloned miner ;) Here, I could had avoided all the version updates by putting either pickups or a button in the little cave, but I didn't want to make it super obvious that you need to do so. Therefore, I left in the red herring of going up the left side so that if the player does attempt to take it, you're not going to have enough to solve the level. Or, you'll lose too many lemmings as a result.
I also hated to make the bombers and blockers pickups, as I felt the solution was way more obvious as a result, but Armani has told me otherwise. He has said the level is still very hard despite the pickups, so looks like I've been proven wrong about the solution being more obvious.
Acceptable solution. As you might had guessed, this is an open-ended level, so I will accept almost any solution here,
Spoiler
As long as you mine from the right to get the lemmings up, anything goes here. You also somewhat overcomplicated the end part, as there is actually a tiny ledge that a climber can get up on in order to bash higher than on ground level like you did on the left side :P However, your solution is fine.
The level title is a reference to Insane Steve's level "The Annoying 1-Pixel Gap," as if you are provided even 1 builder it will be an automatic solve by simply building over the gap due to how the entrance and exit are on opposite sides of the gap. Thus, it is a no builders level. The rule here was "make a level with no constructive skills, i.e, no builders, platformers, and stackers." I decided to make a level with a similar concept, just with about half the amount of each skill. Only thing is that it's not exactly on the floor, as it's in the air, and so the title doesn't quite fit here :laugh:
This was originally a 5-of-everything level, similar to your Temple of Escher level from a few contests ago, but based on feedback I got from Armani I decided to reduce it to a 4-of-everything. In this way, there isn't as much degrees of freedom that the former skillset allows while increasing the challenge somewhat. There are ways to save plenty of skills on this level.
Yes, I agree with you that the Dirt tileset is one of the harder ones to work with, especially in regards to making levels look nice with it. Even by my admittance I don't like the appearance, as it looks quite bare without all the grass, roots, and bones, for example. At the same time, I did hastily put the level together, and at some point I got annoyed with putting in the decoration, so that's on me there :P
I did a bit of an impromptu stream and had a go at the Rule 1 Levels and was able to solve 4 of 5 so far. I enjoyed all the levels I played so great job :thumbsup:
Lemmings In a Rave - ArmaniSpoiler
My solution had a climber leftover. I tried at first to use the bottom half the level but couldn't quite keep enough skills leftover, until I realised I could contain the crowd at the top instead. This is a sneaky one if what I did is intended - as I really wanted to bounce a tunnel off that forcefield on the edge of the level to start with.
(not solved yet)
Spoiler
This one has me completely stuck so far! I can't figure out how to save enough builders whilst also containing the crowd. I did manage to get one slider out but I looks like I need a way to sneak a lot more than that out. This is a really elegant looking level though and seems very tricky!
Spoiler
I managed a solution with one digger left-over, but I think that might be used to make the last part not as precsie maybe? If what I did here is indeed the intended solution then this is really nice level.
Spoiler
This was a nice level without being massively difficult - but it has a little twist at the end with how to get the crowd down safely. I do wonder if there could have been some terrain added to the pit area to reduce the builder count a bit.
Spoiler
Really fun level to play, and gave a very nice progression to the solve. I found various bits of the puzzle quite early on but wasn't able to put things together until realising how to set things up at the bottom of the level giving a really satisfying solve.
@Apjjm Your solution is 100% intended. Nice job! :thumbsup: I'm happy to hear that you enjoyed this level. I only wish I had been able to see the entire stream live when you were playing it. If it's still available later, I'll likely take a look.
Spoiler
The Dolly Dimple backwards builder is the main trick here, as well as seeing that you can only reach the exit from the left side. If you try doing it from the right, you won't be able to reach the exit, though I forgot to take into account that you can simply let the lemming walk for a bit and then build, which is what Icho used to his advantage here after he found the intended solution. Hence, that's why you see the pieces of terrain that are a bit out of place near the exit.
Regarding Icho's R1, yea, from my pre-testing of his levels, I found it to be a difficult one, but his hardest one is his R2. Again, I didn't see any of your attempt at his R1, so I can't see how far or how close you were in getting it solved. Nevertheless, the fact that you solved every R1 except for one is quite impressive. Very well done! :thumbsup: Looks like you haven't lost touch for one bit in your solving prowess :)
@ichotolot
R1-backroute / R2-100%intended :thumbsup: / R3-100%intended for Red solution and close enough for Green solution :thumbsup:
R1 : The laserer have to be used in more useful and creative way :( Hopefully this updated will be able to enforce that.
R2 : 100% intended ;) I watched the vids and it seems like you figure out the solution even before you actually tried the level! Impressive logical deduction as always! :thumbsup:
R3 : Red solution is perfectly intended. You used every skill in correct position and timing! Green solution is acceptable. Your solution is identical to kaywhyn's. My solution include clumping up the two lemmings to pass the trap and you managed to solve the level with out doing that hence you was able to save one more than required.
@Apjjm
Wow you successfully ignore the entire bottom part of the level :lem-mindblown:
No! I cannot allow that :XD:
@Armani
I mentioned in the very first part that this time I took like 5-15 mins to take a look at and think about every level before recording. Not playing but just messure out the situation and plan a bit. This way there is less "downtime" in my playthrough. Especially with many hard levels it will otherwise turn out to be quite a lengthy drawn-out series. ;)
And especially in your R2 this has helped a lot!
Examples:
Spoiler
- I spotted the most likely usage position for the shimmier narrowing down the path for the swimmer.
- 2 platformers were locked to the exit area and it seemed very unlikely that I could use the other 2 at the bottom as well ---> blocker.
- Through observation I spotted a laserer path that avoids most water pits.
I've updated my rule 1 again.
Had a play through the first 5 levels of rule 2, some first impressions:
Gotta Swim Fast - Armani (solved)
Spoiler
Really nice level & it looks great too :thumbsup:. My solution feelt like the intended solution (so hopefully it is!) - the way the crowd is released at the bottom is very clean.
Violent Changes - IchoTolot (not solved)
Spoiler
I think I have indentified where the worker lemmings need to be as well as the path the crowd will take, though I'm not quite clear yet on how the workers will all get to where they need to go. I haven't felt completely stuck on this as there feels like there is always a part of the level to look at and make progress which is nice for what is certainly a difficult level! I imagine when the peices fit together this will be a very nice solution.
Silence in the library - Kingshadow3 (not solved)
Spoiler
I have managed to reach all the pickup-skills with the shimmiers and a climber working together, but am at a bit of a roadblock on how to get the shimmiers up to that very top section above the climber waiting area effeciently. I like the idea of having the two different groups cross paths and go to different ends of the map!
BoLEMian RhapsoLEMdy - Mantha16 (solved)
Spoiler
This feels like a more open-ended level and was a nice change of difficulty but still not necessarily easy, as the bridgers are still quite constrained but you do have a bit of freedom in how you get around the obstacles. Good level :thumbsup:
Aerial Antics - NieSch (almost solved)
Spoiler
I got very close to a solution on this one I think - I ended up using an extra basher on the start of the level which meant I was a skill short to be able to turn around in order to build the bridge back from the other side. This is a really nice level, though it is a bit gutting to have to do all the builder assignments again because that first side of the level wasn't quite right.
@Apjjm
That's a slight variation of the intended solution well done :thumbsup:
You can compare your solution to mine. See the attachment ;)
Spoiler
You platformed over the gap and used laserer and canceled it with a jumper.
The intended solution uses laserer without platforming and uses a jumper to the worker lemming in to the laser tunnel and lets him platform the gap at the top.
I got some resolves for all the updated levels here. ;)
@IchoTolot
For Rule 1 and 2. The resolves are acceptable ones. My rule 2 has a few cases where skills can be used interchangeably.
For Rule 3, I've changed the shape of the Robot Clown heads so it shouldn't be possible to get over them anymore.
Took a bit more time looking at the rule 1 levels and now have a/another solution for all of them.
Lemmings in a rave - armani
Spoiler
Wow :lem-shocked: - this is a brilliant puzzle. I really like the way the blocker is used in this!
Starstruck - Ichotolot
Spoiler
This is a great puzzle with a lot of the difficulty near the beginning - when I realised how to contain the crowd It was largely a case of working how exactly to execute the bridge building. I did find reversing the builder to be very precise though (if the rule allowed a cloner it would have been nice here!). I tried quite a few things here like stacking lems ontop of each other to dig out the blocker but couldn't quite make it work (or was a skill short for releasing the crowd).
OttoLicho's Sprudel Squires - Kingshadow3
Spoiler
I did a zig-zag miner this time, though I might have overcomplicated releasing one of the blockers. Using the reflected tunnel to free the blocker that leads to it is a nice element of the puzzle.
@Apjjm
This is an acceptable alternative solution, well done! :thumbsup:
The only difference is:
Spoiler
My solution uses another basher at the start positioned slightly lower than the first to delay a slider a bit more + lower the depth of the holding pit as a result ---> The digger alone is enough to free the crowd.
I am also not dependent on the slightly messy canceled basher slider delay as a result, but nice little alternative trivk there! ;)
You can see it in action in part 6 of my playthrough on YouTube as well.
@IchoTolot Great solution! Nicely done! :thumbsup:
@Ichotolot @Apjjm
Intended 8-):thumbsup:
A couple more replays for solves
So near yeat so far - The Tomato Watcher
Spoiler
This was a fun puzzle to do with two seperate paths to manage, especially given that it only has two distinct skills in the skillset
Violent Changes - Ichotolot
Spoiler
This is a very impressive level :thumbsup: - I'm really quite happy that I managed to solve this one without a hint - though it took quite a while. When I realised how the lasers were supposed to be used though the level clicked into place and was a very satisfying solve. What I really liked about this one is although every skill is required figuring out one part of the level helps answer another part.
@Apjjm
That is 100% intended! Well Done again! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Some more solves and thoughts from the last day or two...
Trial by fire - Armani
Spoiler
I think it is really clever that this level works with two non-trivial solutions despite a lot of the terrain being steel and the two skillsets being very different :thumbsup:.
Green route: Not solved yet, I did find something I think works but I was 1 pixel away from executing it when trying to join the fencer to the top area - I imagine if I adjust placements a bit I might be able to find a way to join things up.
Red route: Replay attached - I initially planned to send one worker lemming to do all the work but then realised later I could use a lemming from the crowd to hit the most difficult button and send two lemmings off the bridge.
Out of interest, did you design this level with one route in mind initially and then adjust it to add the other, or did you plan both together?
Alluring Shimmer - IchoTolot
Spoiler
I misread this as alluring shimmier at first :forehead:!
This is a really pretty level (I definately want to try this tileset at some point), and not too difficult and was open ended but still does require some planning ahead!
Revenge of the king - Kingshadow3 (not solved yet)
Spoiler
So far I think I need to extend a basher through multiple letters using the platformer, but I haven't quite worked out how to save enough skills to either get high enough from A to D or to bash through all the way.
I think this is a tough rule to design around so it's impressive that this level has a tricky puzzle to it too.
Emergency Evacuation - tan x dx
Spoiler
The teleporter laserer interaction is really fun on this one :thumbsup:. I initially tried this as a "I wonder if this works..." and saw it did but thought the solution might be laserer + miner as I couldn't initially see how it would fit in. Very nice level!
What goes up - The Tomato Watcher
Spoiler
This is a nice elegant short puzzle! The ruleset you picked to design around is certainly tough, and I think the level you created is nice even without considering the challenge it was for.
Not the annoying gap in the floor again - Kaywhyn
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A very nice builderless level :thumbsup: - I know you have said in some of your videos that you are a fan of this level type!
I imagine there are probably a few different ways to solve this one, but despite this you do have to be careful still not to leave lemmings stranded and to keep enough skills at the end to get to the exit.
Aerial Antics - NieSch
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I eventually worked out where to save my skill assignments for this one!
I think this is a really nice level overall and makes good use of all the terrain on it. The only downside this level had for me was the length of the feedback loop between skill assignments on the area near the start and being short a jumper / basher / shimmier at the very end - for me the stand out part of this puzzle was more in working out the path needed, rather than optimising the edges of the map.
Having said all that, this was still a very enjoyable puzzle :)
Guide to Clone Survival in the jungle - Kaywhyn (not solved yet - replay with 1 lemming short)
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I'm actually a bit stuck on this one ???
I have a solution that has one lemming short but I can't see how to avoid using what must be an extra bomber or blocker with my route (despite some heroic efforts at the end). The best Idea I have had so far is to try and block under the last button instead and maybe that unlocks something earlier on, but I am struggling to see it!
I do like the trick with the cloners and the builder which i'm thinking must be intended - it made me smile when I realised why there were 3 cloners there.
@ApjjmYour solution is intended well done :thumbsup:
QuoteOut of interest, did you design this level with one route in mind initially and then adjust it to add the other, or did you plan both together?
Neither. ;P When I was creating the level map, I didn't have any specific solution in mind. After I designed the terrain, I developed the solutions based on that. Of course I added some traps, OWW, fire etc.. to enforce the solution afterward.
@ApjjmR2: You have most parts correct, but your overall solution is quite far from the intended one. There are some incorrect skill assignments which has caused you to run into a predicament with the save requirement. Armani has told me that this is clearly my hardest level in this contest collection, though I initially thought the solution would be way more obvious because of the pickups. Nope, he told me that it's not, so it seems that it's still very hard despite them. I know you can get my R2 solved eventually, though. I've been very impressed by how very well you been doing with these contest entries in the last few days :)
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You are correct that the builder wall by cloning the builder three times is one of the main tricks needed, great job there! :thumbsup: You almost have another one down, and there's two more tricks required that I didn't see in your best replay attempt solution, hence why you still have a long way to go here.
R3: Acceptable solution. It's an open-ended level, as I mentioned before, and so I will accept almost any solution
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as long as you mine down the right side to get the bottom entrance up the level then everything else doesn't matter to me how you solve the level.
It's also acceptable for me because of how you used almost all skills. There were some unnecessary skill usages in your solution and hence you could had saved way more skills, but well, if it works, it works! Nice job, though ;)
Quote from: Apjjm on December 02, 2021, 01:52:15 AM
Some more solves and thoughts from the last day or two...
Aerial Antics - NieSch
Spoiler
I eventually worked out where to save my skill assignments for this one!
I think this is a really nice level overall and makes good use of all the terrain on it. The only downside this level had for me was the length of the feedback loop between skill assignments on the area near the start and being short a jumper / basher / shimmier at the very end - for me the stand out part of this puzzle was more in working out the path needed, rather than optimising the edges of the map.
Having said all that, this was still a very enjoyable puzzle :)
Well done! Your solution is 100% intended.
I understand your criticism so I made a few changes in V9.
Here are my resolves. :)
@Apjjm You got it! Nice solve! :thumbsup:
I've updated my rule 3 again.
I attached the resolve of Kingshadow3's R3 level. :)
Quote from: IchoTolot on December 03, 2021, 03:27:50 PM
I attached the resolve of Kingshadow3's R3 level. :)
Despite using all skills. This is still a backroute as it skips a trick I am trying to enforce. I've updated my rule 3 to V5.
Another resolve. :)
@IchoTolot This one is close enough to the intended solution to be acceptable.
I uploaded my playthrough of the updated levels on YouTube: https://youtu.be/r85SKhd_0ms
Notice: Though there wasn't a new post announcing this recently, the update phase closed a few days ago, so I apologize if I backrouted any of the following levels and a fix is needed, as they can no longer be updated for this contest!Finally back with some resolves. Resolved KingShadow3's R1 and R2, Niesch's R2, The Tomato Watcher's R2, Armani's R1, and I decided to find the solution for the red side for Armani's R3, as I didn't do so in my playthrough of the contest levels due to just finding the green solution at the time, which I'm told is close enough. My replays are attached. The only one I'm certain is a backroute is Niesch's level, and possibly The Tomato Watcher's R2 due to some skills left over, meaning the fixes probably made it worse, or possibly just means my solution just happens to be efficient. I've seen the intended solution to the former after I resolved the latest version of his level, though, and my solution can easily be blocked with some more OWAs at the unintended place where I did a lot of rapid fire skill assignments. I will say that the intended solution is quite impressive and hence I now understand why the level is called "Aerial Antics."
Armani's Lemmings in a Rave V4
Wow, I really like the blocker release trick with the laserer here! :thumbsup: The blocker was the one I couldn't figure out for a while. I guess it kind of helps that your R2 also involves a similar release technique. Also how our R1's both use the backwards builder trick and here I also like the digger releasing the crowd with the climber. Nice job here, and I'm already told on Discord that my solution is intended, but I've included it just for completeness :P
Armani's Trial by Fire V1 Red Solution
This one took me longer than the green one, but that's because I was a dummy and didn't realize that I could simply let the climber die to the fire after digging and fencing up to prepare the route. Ugh, I always run into trouble when I don't pay close attention to the save requirement :forehead: I kept thinking that I needed to send a climber up there again after platforming that gap to allow the other one to use it to shimmy to prepare the other platformers. Still, nice solution, which I'm certain should be intended. At least the red side works as intended ;)
KingShadow3's OttoLicho's Sprudel Squires V4
This was a difficult one, although I more or less did the same solution as before and hence was able to spare the climber once again :P I did have to fiddle around with the miner placement on the right in order to get the timing just right for this to happen. It's a bit tight, but fortunately it does work. Again, if this is a backroute, then unfortunately the update phase's been closed a few days ago and hence no more fixes can be made to these levels for this contest. However, if you decide to release a level pack later down the line and include this level, then of course you're more than free to edit it before release. I also checked Icho's solution and it's pretty much more or less the same except I think his digger placement was a bit better, as the timing in mine is far tighter.
KingShadow3's Silence in the Library V3
Definitely a really hard one and it took me quite a while before I managed to solve it. However, I think I'm in agreement with Armani that Icho's R2 is only a tid bit harder than yours. Here, I was a dummy for a long time and kept thinking the sliders need to go through the top right area :forehead: The solution isn't that fiddly at all. I absolutely love the trick of bombing where the thin steel area near the top is in order to get the sliders up near the left exit, though! :thumbsup: Even after I managed to figure this out, I kept coming up a skill short. Eventually, I found the solution in the replay. I checked mine against Icho's solution, and it's almost the same, except I didn't build the sliders out at the bottom left, I used a bomber. I also had the climbers go out through the OWW area instead of relied on the sliders to let the climbers out and hence didn't need the timing there.
Overall, nice level here, although certainly quite difficult for far too many here. I don't mind hard levels, as you probably already know ;)
Niesch's Aerial Antics V9
Definitely a backroute after comparing it to Icho's solution. It's possible that I might had eventually made the connection that the terrain on the side does indeed play a role in the intended solution instead of just being decoration, but for the most part I seemed to have just tried to make my old solution still work somehow :P It was still difficult trying to see where I can save up a builder, though! As a result, a lot of skills leftover. Again, apologies for waiting this long before resolving and after the update phase has closed, but I've been very busy lately with my job and all.
The Tomato Watcher's So Near Yet So Far... V4
I used one basher at the top middle this time to get a worker lemming into the bottom area to prepare the rest of the way. However, I do have a builder and two bashers leftover. If this is a backroute, please note that the update phase closed a few days ago and hence no more fixes can be made to levels for this contest. Still, I like how this is a bashers and builders only level.
@IchoI need more time to think about your R1 to resolve it. I'm not sure what Armani did, but I'm guessing that his solution involved some extreme precision, which I'm only making this connection due to how you upped the save requirement by 1 from all your previous iterations. I will report back hopefully later with a successful replay in the day.
No hints, of course! ;)
No problem kaywhyn. Impressive to see that you keep finding backroutes if you persevere long enough. 8-)
Quote from: kaywhyn on December 11, 2021, 11:06:04 AM
The Tomato Watcher's So Near Yet So Far... V4
I used one basher at the top middle this time to get a worker lemming into the bottom area to prepare the rest of the way. However, I do have a builder and two bashers leftover. If this is a backroute, please note that the update phase closed a few days ago and hence no more fixes can be made to levels for this contest. Still, I like how this is a bashers and builders only level.
I wouldn't call this a backroute; you didn't really skip anything, you just made it slightly harder for yourself. :P
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One of those extra bashers is an anti-frustration measure, but the other one and the extra builder are just so you don't have to time a builder at the end like you did. I intended for the basher to be used on the builder stairs before the steel block just to the left of the mesh, so that you wouldn't have to worry about lemmings falling into the water while the worker lemming builds over it, bashes through the other block, and builds to the slicer trap area. Once he was done, you'd use the remaining builder to patch up the first staircase so everyone could go to the exit. Not a huge deal that you waited for good timing to save a couple skills; bashing under the slicer trap was the main thing I was looking for.
@kaywhyn
I think you already know, but
Both are 100 intended :thumbsup:
Finally got Icho's R1 resolved. Also, videos of my solutions to the updated levels for each rule:
Rule 1: https://youtu.be/8TIq8bDGJKc (https://youtu.be/8TIq8bDGJKc)
Rule 2: https://youtu.be/cZg_Tmb2CzU (https://youtu.be/cZg_Tmb2CzU)
Rule 3: https://youtu.be/t0JUSCoByUw (https://youtu.be/t0JUSCoByUw)
@Icho Just wanted to let you know that I gave you credit and a shoutout in my R3 video at the very end in the outros. Thanks for being a great friend and your expertise/help in visuals of level designing! :)
Here, I brought a lot of very unnecessary pixel precision, and as you can imagine it was quite frustrating to pull off what I did here, with a lot of very good timing needed :laugh: The biggest difference from what I've seen with Armani's and Icho's intended solutions is where I contained the crowd (back to the pre-testing times we go here, Icho :P), as well as swapped the digger and basher placements.
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That second basher assignment is super precise so that he makes a tunnel wide enough to allow the first non-slider to dig down and contain all the non-sliders in there. It has to be done at such a time so that the gap is a pixel away from being sealed but the builder provides the final brick to keep the basher going. Again, I did this from pre-testing this level, so I haven't learned my lesson with pixel precision in my solutions. Why do I insist on solving with messy solutions I have no idea :XD: However, I must say being able to patch up the bridge again with the builder going to the right is quite neat, although again that is super precise, as anything else I tried either it won't be patched up, the builder will hit his head and stop after a brick, or the second builder does not reach the wall and is about a pixel short.
I've attached my entire replay collection for the contest, including my replays for all 3 of Icho's levels, and the solutions to my own contest levels. Again, at least one is not intended, Niesch's level, as I ended up resolving after the update phase ended. Also, there are intended solutions for my R1 and R2. My R3 is open-ended and hence I have no specific intended solution in mind, it's just a solution I found to it. For Armani's R3, there are two solutions, one is for the green side, the other is for the red side.
Let's just say at some point you need to stop saving the player from overly timing and precision heavy solutions and I think this point is reached now. ;)
I won't introduce a ton of overly ugly fixes just to prevent a overly complicated variation of the solution (even if the crowd is saved in another place) so I will let it stay.
The voting phase will begin soon when I get the level picture links and find some time to prepare the topic. :)