All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix Player!
NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pn7lzbqf4kuq2ja/Contest_23.zip?dl=1
Music: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6kai36r33yrf0px/Contest_23_Music.zip?dl=1
Rule 1 Levels
Armani's "Cactus Valley" (V1)
IchoTolot's "Craze Or Crazy?" (V1)
Kaywhyn's "Everything Comes in Twos?" (V10)
Kingshadow3's "The Monkey Cave" (V4)
Rule 2 Levels
Armani's "Brakes Failed" (V2)
IchoTolot's "Retspen's Tomb" (V1)
Kaywhyn's "30 Seconds Before the Final Curtain Call" (V8)
Kingshadow3's "Master Of The Minute" (V6)
Rule 3 Levels
Armani's "The Age of Affluence" (V1)
IchoTolot's "Countdown To Meltdown" (V1)
Kaywhyn's "Cross Over Into the Light, My Lems!" (V5)
Kingshadow3's "Straight And Curved" (V3)
You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5599.0
Playing Phase will be closed on 20th of August!
Updates will close on 17th of August!
Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.
Link to update topic (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5682.0)
Solved Kaywhyn's "30 Seconds Before the Final Curtain Call". Just completed it in time. @Kaywhyn I need to verify if this is the intended solution.
EDIT: Also solved Kaywhyn's "Cross Over Into the Light, My Lems!". This seems like the intended solution but I'm not sure.
EDIT2: Armani's "Cactus Valley" is another one I've solved. I really like the solution I found for this one.
@Kingshadow3 Thanks for playing my R2 and R3! :thumbsup: Your solutions to them are backroutes and hence not intended. R3 was easy enough to fix. I needed to think for a bit for my R2. Both V2's have been uploaded. Let's see how they hold up and if they block your backroutes now! :P
Again, thanks for playing. Now just need to see my R1, but I'm guessing you need more time to think about it?
ok, solved Kaywhyn's Rule 1 level.
Saved 1 over the minimum since I had a stoner left. Most likely a backroute.
@eric That is a very bad backroute to my R1! :XD: I have uploaded V2 of my R1. The change there are some pickup skills. Let's see if it stops your backrouting to it now! :P
I have solved both Armani's R1 and KingShadow3's R1. My replays are attached. Also, I started an LP of the contest levels. Here are the links to them. Enjoy! :P
Part 1: https://youtu.be/rjmqT2GodEU (https://youtu.be/rjmqT2GodEU)
Part 2: https://youtu.be/ootqJnIsVKY (https://youtu.be/ootqJnIsVKY)
Armani's Cactus Valley R1V1
Wow, this was a difficult but really good level! :thumbsup: Lots of red herrings here that will cause you to be a skill short. In particular, timing the basher so that a climber can use the cactus at the top to shimmy over to the right side is quite clever! :) That was the part that took me a while to figure out, while I had everything else all figured out.
KingShadow3's The Monkey Cave R1V!
I don't think this is intended, as I have a few skills leftover. Not as difficult as Armani's R1 IMO, but still very challenging!
The rest of my LP of the contest levels will follow as soon as I can get to them! ;)
Thank you for finding this backroute kaywhyn. :D I've modified the terrain near the hatch to fix this. Check the update topic.
Both of you found exactly the intended solution! Well done :thumbsup:
Solved rule1 levels.
There only 3 levels to solve per rank, so I might try to solve rule2 and rule3 levels today as well. ;)
Craze Or Crazy
I'm quite sure that this is intended. The only suspicious thing is that I didn't take advantage of the updraft. Nice cute level though! Making a long path for a lemming to shimmy is always fun :thumbsup:
Everything Comes in Twos?
Probably I backrouted the level since I have some leftover skills. I do have a feeling that the intended solution requires cooperation between two worker lemmings. ???
The Monkey Cave
I bet this is intended. Very clever level! I like the solution a lot. :thumbsup:
Solved the remaining R2 and R3 levels which I haven't seen/played yet. My replays for Armani's R2 and R3, as well as KingShadow3's R2 and R3, are attached. I smell backroutes for KingShadow3's R2 and Armani's R3 :P Maybe KingShadow3's R3 as well, but it might be acceptable?
Also links to the remaining LP videos. Enjoy! :P
Part 3: https://youtu.be/mh6Jio1y4UE (https://youtu.be/mh6Jio1y4UE)
Part 4: https://youtu.be/8QeaQglTJPY (https://youtu.be/8QeaQglTJPY)
Part 5: https://youtu.be/m142MH8wx5E (https://youtu.be/m142MH8wx5E)
Armani's Brakes Failed R2V1
I was a dummy here and it took me far longer than it needed to. In contrast to a few of your previous R2 levels, no advanced/fancy trick needed here! Hence, this is quite easy for an R2 from you. Then again, you did acknowledge that given the ruleset for R2, it's quite difficult to make a level that fits the description AND is also very hard. Still a challenging level even for such a small and short level. Also very nice level here too! :thumbsup: Out of all the R2 levels, I feel Icho's is the hardest. And I'm not saying that because of how I pre-tested his levels :P
Armani's The Age of Affluence R3V1
I think this might be a slight backroute since I have a couple of skills leftover :P This one was a difficult one for me. I think you're going to enjoy hearing me talk my way through solving this one in my LP, though ;)
KingShadow3's Master of the Minute R2V1
I'm sure this is a backroute since I have two builders leftover? :P
KingShadow3's Straight and Curved R3V1
This might be a backroute as well, although maybe acceptable? Here, I can adapt my solution so that I don't collect the fencer pickup and simply can use the two remaining builders to release the crowd :P
All rightie, since I have solved every contest level at least once, Part 5 will be the last video in the LP series for a while. When I return to record in maybe a few weeks or possibly closer to the closing date of the playing phase, I will simply be showing off the intended solutions to the contest levels once I resolve all updated levels and all solutions are acceptable. I will also show off my solutions to Icho's contest levels, as well as the intended solutions to my own contest levels, next time! ;) I pretested Icho's contest levels once again, and so along with my own contest levels, there were only 2 levels per rule I needed to play and solve in my LP :P
I will include my entire replay collection for the LDC #23 levels at a later time! ;)
@Armani - V3 of my R1 uploaded! Slight terrain shift to block your backroute. Let's see how this holds up now :P
@kaywhyn
You ended up breaking my r2. It's definitely easier than my average r2s, but not like this.:crylaugh:
My rule3 is intended to be an open-ended level. But surprisingly you found almost same solution as mine! The main idea of the level is that you can make a lemming tri-athlete and give rest of the lemmings one permanent skill each.(5+5+5+1=16)
So any solutions that send a worker lemming(tri-athlete) from top hatch(which is the only hatch that spawn 6 lemmings) and prepare safe falls for the 3 athletes groups, I would consider acceptable.
Well done! :thumbsup: I think my r2 is easier than r3, so it's won't be a problem to you.
@Armani That was the intended solution to my R1. Congrats! :thumbsup:
@Kaywhyn For R2, I've encountered multiple backroutes with this level playtesting myself before I submitted it (A lot of them involved the stacker to the point to that I had to make it a pickup skill). I didn't expect to see another one. I actually thought the small holes in the terrain would prevent such a thing from happening. Looks like I was mistaken. :lem-shocked:
For R3, sequence breaking the order of which balls you build/plaform to has been patched out. This level is pretty open. The intended solutions (There are multiple intended ways to free the lems) can spare 1 builder or platformer.
Solved rest of the levels.
Everything Comes in Twos(V3)
Only one stoner left this time. Hope we are getting closer to intended!
Retspen's Tomb(V1)
It seems like you're master at making small level too! Everything falls into place perfectly in such a tiny level. Very impressive level! :thumbsup:
30 Seconds Before the Final Curtain Call(V2)
I think the my solution is intended. Using two walkers to cancel two miners in order to save last one second!
Master Of The Minute(V2)
Attached two solutions. Both have leftover skills, so I doubt they are intended. By the way, this level is really really small! The smallest level I've ever seen :lem-mindblown:
Countdown To Meltdown(V1)
I suspect I've solved all of your levels in intended ways in V1! This level was quite difficult. It took me a while to realize that I had to send a climber to the left side of the level and let him start bashing from there. I also attached a solution that saves a walker with some precise timing.
Cross Over into the Light My Lems!(V2)
This seems intended. I like the contrast between the darkness of L2 shadow and bright colors of L2 beach! And also the evil moon vs the sun :laugh:
Straight And Curved(V2)
This could be intended. not 100% sure though.
Updated my Rule 2 again. This one is a pain to backroute fix. :XD: I had to make the builders pickup skills and lock the release rate. See the update topic for R2V3.
@Armani Your solution to my Rule 3 is an intended one. There are multiple ways to free the crowd (One of which spares a constructive skill). My R3 is pretty open. ;P
@Armani Your solution to my R1 is about 95% intended. I have uploaded V4 of my R1 by making a stacker a pickup. This should be it with V4! :laugh:
Spoiler
The only unintended parts was how you used the second builder, as well as a sacrifice to the acid.
Your solution to my R2 is 100% intended. Well done! :thumbsup:
For R3, your solution is 99% intended! I added OWAs, so all you need to do is tweak one skill assignment and then you'll have the intended solution ;)
Finally, for your solutions to Icho's levels, by my pre-testing, I can confirm that they're all 100% intended. Well done! :thumbsup: For the second solution to his R3, I say that's an acceptable alternative that spares a skill and definitely one that I could had found as well in my pre-testing. However, it's Icho's call, as I didn't make his levels :P
Solved updated levels.
Everything Comes in Twos(V4)
Okay. This has to be intended. Very clever level :thumbsup: I would say the most difficult thing was to realize that I should clone the builder to make a safe fall for the crowd and time the second worker so that he slip under to make a stacker turnaround point. Also it took me quite a while to realize that the crowd can make a second round to buy enough time for the worker lemming to finish the final platformer bridge.
Master Of The Minute(V3)
Sorry but I think I broke the level again :'(
Cross Over into the Light My Lems!(V3)
I think I figured out what you meant by missing 1%. ;)
@Armani - Awesome, your solutions to both my R1 and R3 are now 100% intended! Well done! :thumbsup:
Spoiler
Everything Comes in Twos? - The only differences here between your solution and mine is I used the climber to bomb inside the stack to release the crowd, as well as platforming to the exit first and then stoning to fill up the gap. However, all the main tricks are there, and this is essentially the same as the intended solution, so this is perfectly fine by me! :thumbsup:
I believe you are correct about cloning the builder to make a safe drop for the crowd being one of the most difficult things to see in the level. Also realizing that you only have one chance to bash through the OWW to release the crowd, as once the builder and the clone are done, there's no way for the athlete to get back to the area to bash them out, since he will always land on the floating platform where the masher trap is, and when he drops down from it he glides in such a way where he DOES NOT hit the wall and goes back to the left. Even if he did, as I said before it's impossible to get back there to bash the crowd out due to the slanted platform blocking the climber. Finally, the crowd will always make at least one round back to the top and hence the splatform is absolutely necessary
As you might have seen too, I threw in plenty of red herrings here that can trip people up when solving this level. For example, using a builder to get to the triangular slope on the left side and then using a platformer to get to the exit could certainly work. HOWEVER, how would the crowd get to the exit now that you used that platformer? Also, by attempting this you'll always be at least a skill short. Most importantly, the exit platform is JUST out of reach, being a few pixels too far to seal with a platformer :evil:
Thanks for the positive feedback on my R1! :thumbsup: I really wanted to avoid using pickups for backroute fixing just so it makes it very clear that the X-of-everything rule is satisfied with the level, but alas as I unfortunately found, backroutes have resulted :(
Cross Over Into the Light, My Lems! - Yup, you are correct in figuring out that missing 1% ;) The trick I wanted to enforce here was making the solver realize that you must make the miner bash before he breaks through the tiny pixel floor where the two triangular slope terrain connect, as well as going through the main structure with the pipes. The trick with using a builder to extend a miner and the slopes overhead to keep a basher going, I got inspiration from Icho's level "Night of Nights" from Reunion, which is one of my all time favorite levels from that pack!
Looks like I'm already improving a lot in backroute fixing my own levels in just two LDCs, as here I ended up taking half the amount of versions in contrast to the previous LDC, which was the very first one where I made levels. That is, until Icho or someone else comes along and finds a way to backroute my level(s) :crylaugh:
I'll be back in a few weeks to resolve levels, so it'll be some time before I get to resolving your R2.
Thanks so much for playing my levels, as usual, and the really great feedback and compliments on my levels! :) Regarding your own levels, I think I have to say your R1 is my favorite of the three. Very deceptively difficult but I absolutely love the overall solution and the tricks needed
Updated Rule 2. I tried fixing Armani's backroute by adding an overhang but then found another backroute myself. I've decided to split builders between 2 pickup skills to fix my own backroute.
EDIT: V4 had a backroute as well that I found so I also swapped the amounts of the two pickup skills.
@Armani All your solutions to my levels are 100% intended! Great job! :thumbsup:
And yes I didn't want to enforce the precise timing on my R3 level. I suspected that it was possible without the walker when making it, but I am not a fan of that and hey the walker did not break anything so far ;)
As updates slow down a bit, I think I will try to record my playthrough on 26th/27th as I have these days off.
So if there are anymore updates waiting in line before that it would be good to get them out in time. ;)
More backroutes :P
Quote from: Armani on July 19, 2021, 12:12:23 PM
More backroutes :P
Did you do these with a previous build of the level? Both Replays don't work with V5. Those backroutes may already have been fixed in V5.
:forehead: You are right, I wasn't playing the latest version.
Here's the new solution for V5.
V6 Update. @Ichotolot Make sure you update to V6 of my Rule 2 before you record your playthrough.
I'm starting to regret making this level :XD:. I've added a thin OWW to the level. It was going to be a trap but then discovered that based on where it was placed it either could still be cheesed or it broke the intended solution.
Finally back again to resolve updated levels. Resolved KingShadow3's levels, as well as Armani's R2 level. I think KingShadow3's R1 might still be a backroute, as I have a miner and a floater leftover. Also, I simply used a cloner to meet the save requirement.
Armani's Brakes Failed R2V2
Ok, this should be 100% intended. Wow, even for a small level this is still an extremely deceptively difficult level. This one probably took me a good 40 mins. Here, the hardest part to see was blocking in such a way so that the crowd can pass through the blocker AND step up the thin enough ceiling depending on where you bash in the lower part of the level. The level title was pretty much a hint to that you can't hold back the crowd and instead must keep it going at all times.
I kept running into problems thinking about how can I get two separate lemmings, one for each of the bashable sections. This is where jumping at the extreme edge with the glider is a very good red herring, as only by doing that can you even reach the top platform where the exit is with a worker. The next problem was reaching the bottom platform with him, which could only be done by using a walker to turn around and then platforming. However, by doing this you lose the worker lemming for the top bashing section. So, problem of getting two separate lemmings for each bashing section remains.
Then, it just dawned upon me that one must platform up the tiny gap at the very start. This simple thing was something I overlooked for a very long time, as when solving the level's appearance keeps making you think the platformer goes at one of the gaps where the bashing sections are, where the rope is. That turns out to be completely wrong! So, seeing to platform the very small gap is very hard to see.
So yes, even with V2 no advanced tricks needed at all, although perhaps blocking in the manner described above is probably borderline of being advanced. Here, it's pretty much a variation of a passthrough blocker, but instead of passing through from above, it's done with lemmings from below.
All in all, very well done with a deceivingly tough level! :thumbsup:
KingShadow3's Master of the Minute R2V6
Somehow this doesn't feel intended, but it probably is, since everything else I tried I kept being a skill short or the solution fails due to at least a pixel or so, or from running out of time. I got to say, it's definitely a much harder level now. Nice job here if my solution is intended ;)
KingShadow3's Straight and Curved R3V3
This should be fine, even though I have a builder leftover. You did say you the level is open-ended.
@Kingshadow3This seems better, as I have no leftover skill this time.
@kaywhynIntended :thumbsup:
Quote from: kaywhyn on July 21, 2021, 11:07:08 PM
Armani's Brakes Failed R2V2
This is where jumping at the extreme edge with the glider is a very good red herring, as only by doing that can you even reach the top platform where the exit is with a worker.
Spoiler
Good eye, kaywhyn :thumbsup: Actually glider+jumper was not enough to reach the top platform at the initial version of the level.
I thought making it possible would be nice distraction from the intended solution.
@Armani Awesome that I now have the intended or acceptable solutions to all of your contest levels ;) Just as a tip, if you quot my post, you'll notice the 2 "spoiler" tags at the beginning and end of my post so that when you click on "preview" you'll see "spoiler" instead of what's underneath, like it is currently. All you have to do is simply take out everything but the sentence you quoted and leave both [spoiler/] tags in so that nothing is revealed unless people click to show/hide.
Your R1 is still my favorite out of your contest levels, although your R2 is a very close tie for my most favorite.
Quote from: Armani on July 22, 2021, 03:46:47 AM
@Kingshadow3
This seems better, as I have no leftover skill this time.
That is the intended solution. :thumbsup:
This means all three of my levels have been solved with the intended solution. ;)
@KingShadow3 Did you check my solutions to the most recent versions of your contest levels? Is my solution to your R1 considered a backroute, or is it intended? Same with R2, is it intended now?
Quote from: kaywhyn on July 22, 2021, 06:52:25 PM
@KingShadow3 Did you check my solutions to the most recent versions of your contest levels? Is my solution to your R1 considered a backroute, or is it intended? Same with R2, is it intended now?
Rule 1 is a backroute :forehead: I've updated the level.
Rule 2 is intended. :thumbsup:
Rule 3 can spare 1 constructive skill in the solution.
@KingShadow3 - Still a backroute I'm sure, especially since I spared the same two skills again AND I saved everyone :P This one took me quite a while to find. I probably spent a good hour on this level, as it pretty much seems to be getting quite difficult
@Kaywhyn. Try my V4. See if it can still be broken.
This one finally looks to be 100% intended. If so, very nice solution! :thumbsup: Deceptively difficult for a 2-of-everything, especially since a lot of things will fail by at least a pixel or so. Also, some of the skills are quite precise.
Spoiler
The second blocker was what I couldn't figure out for a while, as well as how to save one of the blockers if both need to be used. Turns out that they're mechanics I'm familiar with. No very fancy/advanced tricks needed, just some parts are difficult to see.
I think with this, we're all done with updates for this LDC. I noticed you haven't sent any replays for my R1, though. Is it proving to be too hard or something?
@Kaywhyn That is the intended solution. I initially used one wide steel block to patch your backroute from earlier but then found out that it could still be broken by cloning the miner just before hitting the steel so it was changed to 2 small square steel blocks which were wider than one rectangular steel block.
I've never been particularly good at solving levels to be honest. So I generally only play each level for about 30 minutes or so. :(
@Ichotolot. Make sure you update to the latest version of my levels before you record your footage so you don't discover a backroute that has already been patched out.
@KingShadow3 - Ah, understood. I think you're definitely better at solving than you say you are, especially since you managed to figure out Armani's R1, and I considered it to be a difficult one! Also, you're pretty good at making deceivingly tough levels, though, I'll give you that. With me, that's not a bad thing at all. Hard levels are my kind of level that I love to play/solve, especially if it's the good kind of hard, where it stumps me for some time but it's very satisfying to figure out. Now that I know the solution for your R1, for example, I honestly have no idea why it took me so long to see it. It was a huge case of me overlooking the simple stuff. Your newest R2 version took me some time as well, although nowhere near as long as R1. Even then, I enjoy playing levels of all difficulties.
I'm glad to hear that you've immensely enjoyed watching me figure out/talk my way through your levels on video in my LP ;) In any case, since I now have the intended/acceptable solutions to all these contest levels, in maybe a day or so, I will be making 3 more videos showing off the solutions to each ruleset one last time, including showing off the intended solutions to my levels, so if you're not able to figure out my R1, you can just simply watch my video.
Regarding my R1's difficulty, I say it's up there with the rest of the R1's in this contest, where it's deceptively difficult, but comparatively speaking to them I say mine's the easiest of the R1's. Heck, I think my levels are the easiest in each ruleset. Still, I've been proven wrong about how I've always had this notion that I'm no good at making difficult levels
@Kaywhyn Sometimes it's hard for me to make a level that is both fun and challenging. I often worry that I won't be able to repeat making such levels when I get round to making a level pack as well as future contests. I actually took a little longer on doing "Cactus Valley" than usual (Mainly because Ichotolot sorts everyone's levels by creators in Alphabetical order thus Armani's level was the first level). Breaking a level is often easier than finding the intended solution. ;P
Another thing I want to point out is that for my 3 entries that I only used Classic Lemmings styles. While I find using classic style easy for me. I'd like to use L2/L3 and user created styles for future contests. Orig_Marble seems to be a popular style to use since I used it as one of the styles for my R3. Kaywhyn used it for his R1 and Ichotolot used it for his R2. I also made my PFP using the Marble Tileset.
This particular contest was pretty small (Only 12 entries from 4 people) so I definitely believe that the next one will be much bigger considering that the Slider and Laserer will be available in the next contest.
Quote from: Kingshadow3 on July 23, 2021, 10:07:00 AM
Breaking a level is often easier than finding the intended solution. ;P
That's generally how people solve levels if they can't find the intended solution after a while: They try to backroute the level! Backroutes aren't necessarily a bad thing, as they might be ones that a solver finds that the designer otherwise might not had found on his/her own.
Quote
Another thing I want to point out is that for my 3 entries that I only used Classic Lemmings styles. While I find using classic style easy for me. I'd like to use L2/L3 and user created styles for future contests. Orig_Marble seems to be a popular style to use since I used it as one of the styles for my R3. Kaywhyn used it for his R1 and Ichotolot used it for his R2. I also made my PFP using the Marble Tileset.
I think a person who starts out in level designing almost always first uses the classic tilesets. For example, the very first level I have ever made is in the Bubble tileset. I have to suspect it's because they're the most familiar and are generally easy to work with for the most part. Just so you know, yes, in L1 marble is one of my absolute favorite tilesets, and in ONML it's bubble and brick that are my favorites. In L2, sports and outdoors are generally my top favorites, mostly because green happens to be my favorite color.
Quote
This particular contest was pretty small (Only 12 entries from 4 people) so I definitely believe that the next one will be much bigger considering that the Slider and Laserer will be available in the next contest.
Yea, I was a bit surprised by the very low number of people who entered in this LDC. I was thinking perhaps people are just burnt out from the previous contest (there were 34 levels and 12 authors I believe!), but it seems that from Discord discussions it was simply due to not having interesting ideas to make levels for the rulesets, along with real life.
This is only my second LDC I have ever entered, mostly because I rather solve levels than make them. Even then, because I enjoyed the previous LDC a lot more than I thought I would, I decided to get into designing again by participating in this LDC. Although I have only made 6 Lemmings levels total so far, there's some things that I have learned about myself in regards to the levels I have made. For example, so far it seems that I'm a fan of small/moderate sized levels with a somewhat tight, minimal skillset, resulting in deceptive and somewhat difficult levels. So, while IMO I have yet to reach, say, high Icho/Nepster level difficulty, I might be able to eventually pull it off in the future, but it's going to take me some time. Also, I don't have any huge levels yet, especially since it seems that I have a very hard time trying to make such things so far.
Finally, the biggest reason why I perceive my levels being the easiest out of every designer in this contest is due to me not having made these levels until just days before the closing deadline for submission. For example, I literally put together my R2 in just about 15-20 minutes! :laugh: It seems that I simply get huge creative bursts for levels closer to the deadline than further from it. I tried to finally start making my levels the final Friday before the deadline, but I didn't get anywhere until probably Sunday or Monday. For the most part, I think they turned out all right, although I certainly still have room for improvement, especially in the visuals department. I've never been an artist, and I'm still not, as I can't draw for the life of me.
I played through all levels and recorded my playthrough:
Rule 1: https://youtu.be/Yoje6ITqXBw
Rule 2+3: https://youtu.be/LtkAbUPp2to
Rest of Rule 3 and my own levels: https://youtu.be/Eht-T9dBwGo
My solutions are attached. :)
Intended, Intended and close enough :thumbsup: Well done!
I also attached solutions to my own levels.
@Icho As I kind of had a feeling that it would happen from none other than you, all your solutions to my levels were backroutes. This is quite interesting, as for once Armani didn't backroute the heck out of my levels and therefore them needing so many versions like in the previous LDC :P I have uploaded newer versions for all 3 of them. I think they might be all properly fixed now, but let's see!
Thank you once again for your feedback in your videos of the playthrough of my contest levels. I totally didn't notice the oddity in the appearance of the acid pool at the bottom of my R1. I have fixed that for the next version. Yes, I did mention that it will likely be a while before I can properly satisfy you in the visual department, especially since I have never been an artist myself. Perhaps one thing that will help immensely is if I left myself way more time by making the levels far ahead of the submission closing deadline instead of just leaving them until just days before.
I'm glad you noticed that I'm "trying hard to really improve in making my levels look better" as you stated in your playthrough of my R1. I really am trying to put in the effort in that area of level designing, but yes, I'm still in agreement that it needs work. For starters, I'm glad that you're liking my levels for their puzzles, though. Don't worry if your feedback can sound harsh coming from you. I know you're very blunt and direct, as I can be at times as well. I'm always looking to improve my own levels, so any feedback I get is fine with me!
Also, I noticed that my R3 in your video playthrough was playing the wrong music track. I have fixed this on my end by taking out the subfolder in the music line in the editor. I find it interesting that no one else brought this up, so perhaps for Armani it might had played the wrong track as well.
@Armani I believe the new versions of my R1 and R3 ended up breaking your replays, but you already got the intended solutions to all my levels last time. I did slightly shift some terrain around, and I thought they wouldn't affect your replays, but I guess they did.
I think I have more backroutes for kaywhyn ;P
@Ichotolot Rule 1 is intended. Rule 2 wasn't my solution but it's acceptable since it still uses all the skills. Rule 3 is pretty open so there are multiple ways to free the crowd initially.
@Icho Ack, make that 3 backroutes, as you again managed to backroute all 3 of my levels once more :P I have uploaded a new version for all 3 levels. Hopefully they're all fixed up this time! :D
@kaywhyn
I have hopes for 1 solution this time. ;)
@Icho R1 and R2 are still backroutes. For R1, I've added some terrain and made a skill a pickup. For R2, I've added up OWAs. Hopefully I've killed two birds with one stone here!
R3 is now 100% intended. Well done! ;)
@kaywhyn
Another round of solutions. :)
@Icho Your solutions to both R1 and R2 are now about 95% intended and therefore are still backroutes. I think I have found a way to block the 5% that isn't intended for both levels. For R1, some more terrain added, as well as some shifting in the terrain. For R2, made the bottom two hatches pre-assigned gliders, added an additional exit on both sides at the bottom and adjusted the exit limits accordingly while the # of lemmings and save requirement remain the same. This should do it for both levels once and for all! :)
@kaywhyn
I think you are right with R1.
Your patch to R2 did not change anything though as my old replay still solves. :P
@
Icho Even though you used all the skills for R1, it is still a backroute. I have added some more terrain and a fire trap. Also restored the stacker I took away and made a pickup. This should fix it now!
For R2, it was pretty much a drastic rework on the bottom. Added updrafts all over the area, shifted the newly added exits and water upwards, shifted the tiles at the bottom and outer exits downwards, shifted the rest of the level upwards, except for the two top hatches, and finally removed the exit limits on the top exits, as you can no longer see the numbers due to being too far off the top of the screen. Also, they're not really needed anymore since the top half is pretty solid now ;)
Spoiler
The way you used the second cloners in both levels are unintended, and they're the only things that are not intended in your solutions that remain. Everything else is intended.
QuoteAlso, they're not really needed anymore since the top half is pretty solid now
Well removing those makes it not solid anymore. If you change a part of the level that was intended it can become broken again.
Anyway, resolved the levels.
Quote from: IchoTolot on August 01, 2021, 09:42:39 AM
Well removing those makes it not solid anymore. If you change a part of the level that was intended it can become broken again.
You're right :forehead: Hence that's why I was hesitant to restore some of the numerous changes I made to my R3 from the previous contest in fear that some of the same broken stuff in solutions will pop up again. I honestly don't know why I didn't heed this advice that I've been subconsciously aware of since the previous LDC.
Because of that, R1 made the stacker a pickup again which shouldn't had been taken away in the first place, and in R2 added some more terrain at the top and restored the exit limits for the two exits to be able to only take two lemmings each (again, as you said I shouldn't had taken it away since it did play a part in forcing the intended solution, and they've been there since the very first version! :XD:). Because the exit limits cannot be seen, I put in green circus lights in the shape of the number 2 next to those exits to make this not hidden information!
Another resolve. :)
@Icho R1 is now about 98-99% intended. Just a very small backroute that I think is very easy to fix with a time limit.
Spoiler
Honestly, I tried to avoid not putting a timer in, but I think this is the only way to truly enforce the second cloner usage I have in mind, as that is the only skill you used unintended this time.
R2 is now 100% intended. Nice job ;) A lot of fixes needed there, but at the same time that's what I get for having put together that level in literally just 15 minutes. I should had known such a level would be very susceptible to backroutes despite being the shortest R2 level in the entire contest :XD:
Even though you forgot to add the 5min timer. This solution takes less than 5 mins and I suspect it being intended. :)
Finally! This is 100% intended. Well done :) The funny thing was that in the very first version my own solution essentially took 5 mins exactly, and hence I was thinking of adding a timer, but then I decided against it and thought it wouldn't really add or block anything at all. Turns out that it is the one thing that finally enforces the solution I had in mind after so many fixes. Who knew? :laugh:
I have attached my entire replay collection, including the intended solutions to my own contest levels. There are two replays for my R1.
Also, here are the LP links:
Video solutions to all updated R1, R2, and R3 except for mine
Part 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5zFOV3zbRU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5zFOV3zbRU)
Intended solutions to my own contest levels
Part 7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdWcyh_3Sdc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdWcyh_3Sdc)
Once again, it was a blast pre-testing Icho's contest levels, and also thanks again to everyone for all the feedback/replays for my levels! :thumbsup: I still have a lot to learn in regards to level designing/backrouting it seems, but some progress is better than none, right? :P It was fun playing through and solving these levels. These were all quite good ;) Armani did a great job with these rulesets he chose for this contest. Hope my levels were enjoyable as well.
Uploaded a playthrough of the updated levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IetVMeildQ
My replay collection is also attached.
Ok, as soon as the contest pictures are up I will start the voting phase. :)