Lemmings Forums
NeoLemmix => Bugs & Suggestions => Closed => Topic started by: namida on February 06, 2017, 03:30:50 PM
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While working on the "remastered" versions of the official / early-LP graphic sets, I noticed a couple of anamolies in the Bubble tileset's pieces.
Specifically:
Terrain 51, the horizontal section of this piece is one pixel thicker than on any other matching pipe piece.
Terrain 55, near the horizontal-diagonal joint, one pixel underneath the pipe is missing.
Should these be fixed? On one hand, this could cause issues with existing content / replays - it's minor changes, in one of the less-frequently-used tilesets, so the impact shouldn't be huge, but it probably won't be zero. But on the other hand, I'm not sure how I feel about leaving such inconsistencies in.
Perhaps one possible approach - fix them, but leave it until next time another change that may break compatibility occurs. This way, the rare level that gets affected by this can be dealt with at the same time as dealing with those, and it's in line with the "if things must be broken, try to break as many of them as possible at the same time rather than heaps of small breaks" approach that was used for the V1.43n-F to V1.47n upgrade.
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Perhaps a fix can be made graphically to make it look better visually but not actually affect the physics?
Otherwise; I vote for fix it whenever doesn't matter to me. Inconsistencies like these bother me. There's a bunch in the original set. Some have already been fixed like the Lizard trap thing I found. But there are others more problematic to breaking levels like the steel pieces in Fire set being weird sizes.
I'm not sure if it will matter, but it may if you go hi-res in the future; the WinLems/Lemmini high-res graphics have separate issues like this as well. I can think of two off the bat On there; there's holes in the mountain peice of Marble, then there's a tiny pixel of wood floating in air on one of the wooden peices in the pillar set!
I thought of another; there's another random floating piece in one of the blue mesh peices from the bubble set.
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The only way I can think of to improve these things without breaking the physics would be very misleading; having fake / invisible pixels of terrain. Which I would rather avoid.
I might try fixing these and seeing if I can find any levels that break due to the change, and if not, I'll include it in the next update. I strongly suspect that if there's any breakage, it'll be on the order of 3 or 4 levels totally, and generally just a matter of "replays need fixing", not "the level itself needs adjusment".
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So I've made tests with my Bubble levels (10 Reunion levels + 1 collab level):
None of the levels uses piece 51.
The under pixel line of the horizontal pipe of the tile must be used actively if sth shall break..
2 levels make use of piece 55.
1 case it is simply build over ----> no effect.
The other ("pipe grid puzzle") a worker lem + crowd walks over. I've manually added the missing pixel and the replay did not break! Maybe walking over it is no different or the action after that were not exactly pixel-precise.
Breaking levels I cannot imagine, maybe a few replays breaking.
From my side these changes are acceptable to make.
Additional results from other designers would be helpful! Maybe there are more critical cases which I am not aware of.
namida,möbius: A picture of the tiles would be helpful as well! ;)
Steel pieces in Fire set being weird sizes.
There are so many tilesets with different steel sizes. There is the "non-written" X times 8 norm, but that isn't globally at all (custom and original tilesets). Forcing the norm would not be right here. As that would be dramatical changes for not much gain. Also not every custom tileset creator will see the need to change to the norm.
We can only advertise making new tilesets after that rule.
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Since the next update introduces a minor physics change relating to bashers anyway, I'm going to include this fix at the same time. (Additionally, I'll also look at whether any changes need to be made to Fencer physics.)
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Are there any other tileset-related issues that need addressing? If there's going to be some, I'd rather get them all at once.
One that I am aware of - the suggested change to updraft trigger areas.
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on the bubble tileset's water object there's one stray red pixel on one of the frames at the bottom
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I think the Crystal tile set could use a few pieces to make it a bit easier to build with. Currently there are only one size of the pillar pieces (all of which are really long) and the grid can be annoying to build with some times so I think pre made diamonds of grid would make it easier to build with like so.
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p422/impostter/CrystalPieces_zpsrq4nufup.png?t=1486685055)
edit: should probably make one that is a single diamond of grid as well. maybe a 1x1, 3x3 and 5x5?
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I agree with BulletRide. Those pieces would be very helpful.
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Yes, these can definitely be added. As long as they're added to the *end* of the tileset, it won't cause any issues with existing levels (and I don't generally consider forward compatibility to be a huge concern - in other words, it is not a particularly big deal to me if a level / pack made for a newer version of NL doesn't work properly on an older version).
Any other suggestions in general for improvement to the default tilesets? (This includes the Lemmings Plus, L2 and L3 tilesets.)
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When the format change happens I will update a visual error in the sports tileset.
Simon noticed that during our last meetup that one left edge of a white-red piece was not drawn properly.
I've attached the piece here so you can see, it's very minor though.
Also maybe 1 or 2 pixels that turned out a bit too dark in the dune tileset. All that is just nitpicking in the end :P
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I'm happy to deal with issues in the default sets (which now includes the L2 and L3 sets), but you'll have to sort out the ones in your Dune set. With that being said, if you think a bug in GSTool might've caused this, I can certianly look into it.
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No, that is not the GST that should be the issue here, but if you want to sort that tile out: Could you pm me the updated tileset version. Want to have a copy of that for my collection + even if these are included by standard now, I want to keep my download links up-to-date.
Well, the slight shadow that is missing should be able to be recognisable very easily + the other sides serving as the exact color blueprints. The one missing should be a bright one.
Otherwise I will update that with the format change as I said.
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I'll be including the updated copy with the editor update anyway, but I'll PM you a copy as soon as it's done. :)