This topic is for discussion, posting replays, etc. If you're an entrant and you want to update any of your levels, please post in the updates topic (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2616.0). The ZIP attached to this post will be updated periodically, but until the update phase has closed, you should also keep an eye on that topic if you want to be sure you have the latest versions.
So, we all know how this works by now. Here's your levels, play them, upload replays, creators have a chance to fix any backroutes that arise, etc.
Two ZIPs here. One has the levels; the other has some custom musics for a few levels. A couple are variations on regular musics, but use non-standard names ("beast2" and "menacing", where the standard names are "beastii" and "menace"). Place these in a "music" subfolder of your NeoLemmix folder.
Rule 1 Entries (Create a level using only new skills in NeoLemmix or Lix)
Flopsy86's "Tell me the way to DMA..." (NeoLemmix)
IchoTolot's "A Silent Scream" (NeoLemmix)
mobius's "Terminal Velocity" (NeoLemmix)
Nepster's "All the Nines" (NeoLemmix)
Rubix's "Waiting For The Answer" (Lix)
Rule 2 Entries (Create a level with only one lemming / lix)
Colorful Arty's "The Tale of Sir Lemalot" (SuperLemmini*)
IchoTolot's "Lonely Drowning In Blood" (NeoLemmix)
Rule 3 Entries (Create a level with exactly two types of skills)
Apjjm's "Thrown Out With The Bathwater" (NeoLemmix)
Colorful Arty's "Freeze, ya Lemmings!" (SuperLemmini*)
Gronkling's "Zig-Zag Catacomb" (NeoLemmix)
IchoTolot's "Welcome To The Spider Dance!" (NeoLemmix)
mobius's "The Copenhagen Interpretation" (NeoLemmix)
Nepster's "Assault on the Helicopter" (NeoLemmix)
* Colorful Arty has mentioned that although designed for SuperLemmini, his levels should work fine on Lemmini too.
I'll assume that by now everyone knows how to play these levels, but if not, just ask.
Do note that many of the NeoLemmix levels use custom graphic sets. All used graphic sets are among the ones that can be auto-downloaded as needed, so the easiest way to get them is to simply turn "Enable Online Functionality" on in NeoLemmix. If however you don't feel comfortable with this, or play on a PC that doesn't have an internet connection, you'll need:
- Several of IchoTolot's converted L2 / L3 styles (http://www.neolemmix.com/old/stylepacks/L2L3Pack.zip)
- Gronkling's "BeastII" and "Menace" styles (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2457.0)
Place these in a "styles" subfolder of your main NeoLemmix folder (or if you go through the editor, place them in the "styles/NeoLemmix" folder).
The update phase will be open until 16th April (subject to the usual extension rule), and the playing phase will close 4 days after the update phase ends.
ZIP last updated: 27th March, 3:14 PM.
All finished.
As I played this on my laptop, ubuntu put the replays together automatically in a .tar.gz file. I dont know if windows can easily open this. Tell me if you have problems as I try to reattach them in a zip or rar file in this case.Reattached it as a zip.
Colorful ArtyThe Tale of Sir Lemalot:
Spoiler
Nice visual level!:thumbsup: Not very difficult, but the landscape is the selling point here.
Freeze, ya Lemmings!:
Spoiler
Don't 100% know if this is intended. But it is tricky to get a worker Lemming here. :)
Tell me the way to DMA...:
Spoiler
Looks good and is also tricky :) Good level.
Terminal Velocity:
Spoiler
I think this could be a backroute. The level reminds me a bit of "The magic of mushrooms" ;P Nevertheless I had fun playing it!
The Copenhagen Interpretation:
Spoiler
This one was a very tricky puzzle :thumbsup: Dont know if my digging trick here was intended.
All the Nines:
Spoiler
I am pretty sure I broke this one! But it was fun anyways, short and nice :)
Assault on the Helicopter:
Spoiler
Fiddly maybe not everybody's favorite, but I had a blast working my way up here :thumbsup:
Waiting For The Answer:
Spoiler
10 mins of: wtf, how I am gonna stall the crowd here, but then it came to my mind ;) Good level:thumbsup:
Thrown Out With The Bathwater:
Spoiler
Could be a backroute, cause I didnt use much platformers. Great visuals and a good puzzle aswell here :)
Zig-Zag Catacomb:
Spoiler
I found a big backroute here! Also my normal attamd should also be a backroute, as I prob see ~ the intended way here. Great level nevertheless :thumbsup:
Replay to V2 of Apjjm's level attached.
Spoiler
This looks way more intended and was a lot more trickier :thumbsup:
Nice speed solving all these, im gonna play a couple each day.
Yea looks like your solve for : Tell me the way to DMA was a backroute also. I used all skills to complete it.
Enjoyed what I have played today.
Replay attached for what I believe was his intended solution.
As for your solve on my lix level, very smart, and completely unintended, though it was good to see it took all the skills also.
Can anyone find the intended solution though.
Only Smarties have the answer.
Another nice idea, and still nothing like the intended Prox
Backroutes, plauging us all since the beginning of time.
Nepster - All The NinesSpoiler
Fun level and pretty tricky! I ended up saving above the requirement, but the puzzle of keeping enough the lemmings alive as you work your way across whilst also solving the splat problem was fun.
Spoiler
I really enjoyed this level :thumbsup: - I liked that this puzzle used construction skills to extend two different digging skills in a non-obvious way, and i liked the nice touch with the terrain placement to help make lining up the basher/platformer not require a bunch of trial an error.
Spoiler
Good solid puzzle & a nice looking level. My solution ended up using all the skills here - I liked the timing of the platformer and the walker *just* working out in this solution, which i think is intended.
Spoiler
I Felt like I made my solution way more complicated than I needed to because i didn't really plan ahead much. I think I could maybe just drop from the top and save the whole glider stoner thing near the fire blower if that doesn't kill too many...
Spoiler
Nice tricky little puzzle :thumbsup: . I tried approaching this in a few different ways but either ended up splatting at the end or falling short a digger. The timer was really biting at the heels of this solution though!
Spoiler
This solution might be a backroute?
Edit: Forgot attachment :P
Solution to Flopsy's level
(Added solution to V2)
Solution to V2 of Flopsy's level attached. :)
My solutions to all the NX levels, I'll try the updates tomorrow and fix backroute(s) on my level, and may do the non-NX levels at some point.
V3 of Apjjm's level attached :)
Replay for flopsy's level (Version 2) attached.
Spoiler
This puzzle was a lot trickier with the stoner backroute removed :thumbsup: - I managed to have a spare walker leftover in my solution though.
Solutions to 3 levels. I did do V1 of Apjjm's level but that's obsolete now.
IchoTolot's Lonely Drowning in Blood
mobius's The Copenhagen Intervention
Gronkling's Zig Zag Catacomb.
Will have a proper look at other levels over the next few days.
Solution to Gronkling's V3.
Solution to Gronkling's V4. (Wow... never thought a backrouted level would be that easy to solve, let alone from a user who's not usually involved in LDC levels)
And here's my V4 solution.
My solutions to updated levels apart from spider-dance which I don't feel like replaying yet. Old solution to Flopsy's level still works.
Solution for IchoTolot's "A Silent Scream"
Spoiler
This was a tricky level, I spent a while going down the wrong track of using a cloned platformer from my stoner near the start, then trying to work out how to bypass the traps at the end using the few skills I had left, rather than just letting the traps eat a lemming or two.
V3 of my R1 level is out, now Gronklings waterfall tricks should be impossible ;)
and a new solution!
Quote from: Gronkling on March 26, 2016, 11:05:08 PM
and a new solution!
and another fix with -1 walker+platformer :devil:
Found another one on my own .... away with the branch of backroutes!
and another solution! this one feels more intended though
V6 solution
I've played about half of the levels so far; very good everything I've seen so far and some nice challenges.
On Out with the Bathwater:
Spoiler
I like the design a lot; nice use of the set to make a faucet with running water :D. My solution is for the first version didn't get to try the latest version.
On Icho's Spider level:
Spoiler
Haven't tried yet but I like the concept a lot. It's a large level but the over-all concept is somewhat simple.
-------
On my levels:
I've updated Copenhagen Int, Icho backrouted but Apjjm found the intended solution! :thumbsup: My solution doesn't run quite so tight on the time limit
Spoiler
Not sure exactly why at the moment but one thing I do differently is have the initial diggers dig down farther (closer to the switches)
I haven't updated Terminal Velocity yet; not sure how I'm going to fix it. I sort of intended this to be a fun level but not as simple as these solutions so I'll try to come up with a good fix.
Updated my initial post with updated replays :)
Rubix R1 V2, möbius R3 V2, Apjjm R3 V4
New solution to Spider dance! :D
Quote from: Gronkling on March 27, 2016, 01:32:53 PM
New solution to Spider dance! :D
Intended! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Rubix V3 attached ;)
Not much differences here, my way is even easier to execute now.
lol, if this new fix doesn't stop your trick, then I really need to totally rethink part of the map.
Quote from: RubiX on March 27, 2016, 05:45:56 PM
lol, if this new fix doesn't stop your trick, then I really need to totally rethink part of the map.
I think you need to start rethinking :P
lol yep. I'll have a good rethink to stop this
a solution for Flopsy's update.
Icho found the intended solution to V2 Copenhagen :thumbsup:
solved mobius's updated Copenhagen level
I do prefer my updated solution to it, a lot better :thumbsup:
EDIT: Terminal Velocity solution added, found a short cut there I think.
ooh- that wasn't exactly the intended solution but I don't think I'll make any updates for that. Not sure how I would right now anyway.
Just watched IchoTolot's replays of my levels. Flawlessly done. :thumbsup:
I also realized that I was using SuperLemmini version 0.98, so I had to download the latest version to watch them.
Rubix V5 attached
Spoiler
Wow, now all the numbers like the save req make sense :) The exit/bomber part is very precise though and can be fiddly. The solution itself is genius though. But I think that this level might TOTALLY stomp quite some people here and they might not be able to solve it.
Thanks. Congrats on solving it intended!
All levels solved. Here some comments as usual.
ApjjmThrown Out With The Bathwater:
Spoiler
Nice artwork with one of the ugliest styles that are out there (in my opinion). The idea is very good, but there are some parts that feel unnecessarily fiddly.
The Tale of Sir Lemalot:
Spoiler
Very beautiful level! In my opinion, the level would have been better with a more restricted skill set (e.g. 20 instead of 50 builder, 5 instead of 20 of all the terrain removal skills). Moreover some parts (e.g. the rock walls) could have been thinner to shorten the wait for the player.
Freeze, ya Lemmings!:
Spoiler
Not as beautiful as the other level, but instead with a very clever trick to delay two lemmings.
Tell me the way to DMA...:
Spoiler
Nice looking level with an interesting solution. I did not need the walker.
Zig-Zag Catacomb:
Spoiler
Almost certainly a backroute.
A Silent Scream:
Spoiler
The precision needed in stoning the glider at the beginning is completely uncalled for! Does one have one or two frames? Moreover I am not convinced that the weasel trap is needed at the end (cute as it is): This forced to replay everything (including the stoning stuff!) again, because I placed the stacker a few frames too late, so that the weasel caught two of the lemmings.
Apart from all this annoying stuff, it is a nice-looking level with a very intesting solution.
Lonely Drowning in Blood:
Spoiler
I had one walker spare. Again an interesting solution is paired with a frame-precise miner assignment.
Welcome to the Spider Dance:
Spoiler
The best of the three levels :thumbsup:! I managed to save 9 lemmings.
PS: The huge level and the large amount of objects slowed down fast-forward conderably, even to the point that it was barely faster than usual game-play.
Terminal Velocity:
Spoiler
If I ignore my personal dislike for high levels, this was a good and clever level, though not the best-looking one of the contest.
The Copenhagen Interpretation:
Spoiler
Not really a fan of this one. The time limit is distracting and I see no reason that forces putting it there. The solution is quite standard.
Waiting For The Answer:
Spoiler
I am really glad to have frame-stepping in Lix! I first tried for quite a long time to explode the lemming at the correct position, such that she fligns a newly spawned Lix to the side. However that :devil: fixed SI kept me from timing things correctly.
The final solution contains a very good idea, but for my taste the level needs too much fiddling around once you have the correct idea.
It appears you have done this on an older version of lix which may have made an issue with timing, not sure, was unable to view it with the most recent Lix version.
Anyway, for people fighting with the solution.
The map name and the reference of 42 (Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy) is all to help understand the true solution.
If Simon coes back from his trip, we will meet up again next week and I'll guide him through the contest levels aswell :)
Probably shortly before the deadline, I will upload my solution replays for my levels, so that you can see the intended way.
Here's my replays for Apjmm's Rule 3 level, Flopsy86's Rule 1 level, Gronkling's Rule 3 level (I very highly suspect it's a backroute).
I also recorded videos as I played through, which will be available here once it finishes uploading (EDIT: it's uploaded now): https://youtu.be/AUg1hjvZbcA (As well as the above three, it also contains attempts at IchoTolot's Rule 1 level.)
A solution to Flopsy's level with 1 platformer to spare (found by Simon)
Solved all three of IchoTolot's levels!
Video: https://youtu.be/MKnHOzQicZ8
If you just wanna see the solutions, replays attached. :)
All solution are intended! :)
Spoiler
R2 could have been solved in a slightly easier way, so that you would have a walker spare for the builder ----> you can build into the terrain to ease the miner precision
I also noticed 2 or 3 minor terrain errors in R3 that don't really affect the level gameplay itself, so that I won't put another contest update out for them, but nevertheless I will fix them after the contest for the Community Pack :)
And, solved the remaining NeoLemmix levels! Just got the SuperLemmini and Lix ones to go now.
Video: https://youtu.be/_-uIvf2VX-M
Impressive solution to "Assault of the Helicopter" which abuses the slightly uneven ground. Here is the intended solution, which is way faster and uses far less skills.
Ah, nice!
Assault of the Helicopter
I was planning to try something multi-lemming-based (I didn't have an exact plan of what it would be) if my main plan failed... but as you saw, it didn't.
I had a look at Rubix's Lix level, but I get the feeling that - outside of perhaps...
Spoiler
...a VERY difficult-to-execute solution via the nuke...
...it's going to rely on knowing Lix much better than I do in order to notice the solution.
Video: https://youtu.be/NgJXUFgxSAg
I also solved both of Colorful Arty's SuperLemmini levels. Both were alright, but nothing special, IMO. Replay is attached for the first level; I forgot to save it for the second one (but the video is there, at least).
Video: https://youtu.be/Ee4Gv-npGfw
A general tip I'd like to put out there for contest entrants (and just to clarify - this is a piece of advice from me,
not a contest rule in any way!) - the contests probably aren't the best place to show off some obscure and annoying-to-execute trick. Based on past results, nor is it really the place for "how can I make a level as hard as possible". Both of these kind of levels have tended to do quite poorly in past contests; levels that are challenging but not
too hard, not a pain in the ass to perform the solution to, and most of all, fun to play, are the ones that tend to do best. Of course there are exceptions - "Parking Garage" for example was probably the hardest level in the contest it was entered in, and not only did it win that contest, but also came 3rd in Level Of The Year 2015 - but in general, remember that the entire community are the judges, and this includes people who do not like fiddly execution, as well as people who are not great at solving overly difficult levels.
Quote from: namida on April 13, 2016, 08:43:45 AM
I had a look at Rubix's Lix level, but I get the feeling that - outside of perhaps...
Spoiler
...a VERY difficult-to-execute solution via the nuke...
...it's going to rely on knowing Lix much better than I do in order to notice the solution.
Nuke stuff? What are you thinking? Think more about the 42!
Personally the solution came to me only by thinking about what I want to do and Rubix had told me what 42 was meant to tell you afterwards, but it makes 100% sense and is a great help if you think about it ;)
Again as I commented: The solution is 100% logical and no glitch stuff involved.
The lingering fear of nuke solutions points to a game design problem. Nuke should live outside the solution space. Singleplayer should prevent saving after nuke, and show that clearly.
Yeah, Rubix's level doesn't need the nuke.
-- Simon
Solved it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-RbzlM-tI
In regards to nuke solutions: I don't think there's anything wrong with them in general. The reason I was worried about having to use a nuke solution here was not becuase of the use of the nuke in itself, but because of having to use it for the fling functionality of the exploders, which already tends to be messy enough without using it in the context of nuking.
In particular, I don't think in Lix's case, a different rule should exist between singleplayer and multiplayer for this.
That gets into an old thorny debate. The problem is that in multiplayer, nuke can disrupt the level and stop it being a fair, fun contest between the remaining players. I know that at one point it was proposed to have the nuke kill all lix without destroying the terrain, but I don't know if the discussion about that ever got anywhere.
As for singleplayer, as well as the consistency argument, having to control a fling-nuke would be extremely fiddly and go completely against Lix's "concentrate on the puzzle, remove execution difficulty" philosophy. In earlier versions of Lix, the level designer could choose whether to have a normal or fling nuke, but I think that got removed, not sure why.
Just a reminder that, assuming no further updates, the update phase will close in just under 24 hours (if there are any more updates, it'll close when there haven't been any for 72 hours). So if your level needed updating again, now's your last chance to do so!
The voting will begin 4 days after the update phase closes.
Finally got around to watching namida's solutions;
nice one on Copenhagen; a new solution but not a backroute. This was basically what I was originally going for but I couldn't pull it off so I resorted to Icho and other's solution. :thumbsup:
I won't be updating my levels any further.
Further updates are no longer allowed. Voting will open on April 20th.
Discussion / replay sharing is still allowed until voting opens.
Before the voting phase begins: Attached are the intended solutions for my levels :)
I've uploaded a video of my solution to my YT channel :thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjq9VSW469o&feature=youtu.be
Also attached the replay file for those who want it.
Guess I'll give the intended solution to my level
Replay file attatched to post, poorly edited youtube video here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEdcHdIeNXg&feature=youtu.be)