Lemmings Forums

How many demo versions of 'Lemmings 2' exists? I was able to find 3; Amiga, PC and Archimedes. I thought there will be (at least) one more, for Atari ST, but I can't find any trace of that. There are 5 'new' levels (levels not included in the full version of the game) in that demo versions.

Amiga - 2 Circus, 1 Polar
PC - 2 Circus (same as on the Amiga), 2 Medieval
Archimedes - 5 Circus (levels 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 from the full version)
             practice levels: 1 medieval, 1 polar (both same as in the full version)

Only difference between Amiga and PC 'Circus' levels is 'User' skill, available only on the PC demo.

So, if anyone knows of any other demo version, let me know.

I know of a demo of the Amiga version that was shown at the Future Entertainment Show in 1992. But knowing *of* it is all - I've not seen it myself. Is that one the same as the Amiga demo you've already mentioned?

Only difference between Amiga and PC 'Circus' levels is 'User' skill, available only on the PC demo.

I tend to see the User skill a really wierd skill, as it would do exactly what you think it would do. The Lemming would use something they came across.

I don't know is there just one Amiga demo. It can be more demo versions of some game for the same computer.
But, as I said, maybe I can expect Atari ST demo yet, I can't put much hope in something else.

'User' skill was pretty dumb, and it's abandoned (nobody cry for that). And it's not the only abandoned skill, at the end of demo is picture with 61 skill, only 51 are in the game.

If I recall, back at demo phase the design was that for cannons, you have to explicitly assign the "user" skill to a lemming to make it actually use the cannon.  Clearly the game designers agreed with you post-demo that it's weird and unnecessary (not to mention taking up one of the 8 skill slots whenever a level has a cannon), and so the full version has "user" skill eliminated and "using" being automatic behavior for all lemmings.  Some levels in the full version would probably need to be designed differently if cannons require skill to use (you wouldn't really want to force the player to assign same skill to all 60 lemmings!).

Although, given that lemmings are supposed to be dumb and mindless, I supposed logically it made some sense that you have to assign a skill to make them use the cannon.

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Interesting that there are other abandoned skills, I didn't know that.  Anyone has a screenshot of the 61-skills picture?

Here it is, 61 skills screenshot.

I see with my little eye, A Lemming throwing a ball, a Basher, A Bazooker, a Firer, a Kicker, a Horizontal Laser Blaster Lemming, and a Jetpacker! Does this mean they can be in Playstation All-Stars Royal now?

I never knew that there were demo versions that had new levels and pictures of scrapped skills!

I suppose the screenshot from two posts above is the list of skills that gets displayed at the end of the Amiga demo?
If the Archimedes version has two practice levels, which skills are available in the practice menu for this version then?
I just watched a video of the Amiga demo (which shows the screen with the skills at the end). It seems that the skier didn't suck as hard in the demo as in the other versions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnqbJj0Nv6U&feature=player_detailpage#t=205s

Anyway, I had a look at the DOS and Amiga version. Those skills don't have a name in either version (in DOS the preview displays 'runner' and ingame no name is displayed, in Amiga it displays some random strings from the file the names of the other skills are stored). They haven't been implemented either: On the Amiga you can assign them and nothing happens. In DOS, most of them can't be assigned except for two: one skill displays an explosion nearby (without terrain effect) together with a planter animation for the lemming, the other one crashes the game.

I wanted to have a glance at the VLEMMS file which contains all the lemmings animations, but it turns out the format is somewhat different from the final version, so my extractor doesn't work. On the Amiga, the files are RNC compressed (Rob Northen ProPack), but I've never extracted the Amiga graphics, so I don't know about the format.
The DOS version contains some music files (one for each sound format, but foobar plays all the tracks that are in one file at once :/), and some assembly code. There are also some files which just seems like bitmaps.

Picture of the skills is from Amiga demo. There are two Amiga demos, almost the same. One is with 'Future Entertainment Show' logo on the main menu screen, and other is without any logo. But, levels are the same in the both versions.

Archimedes demo version is made after the full game was released (Amiga, PC and Atari ST versions), so it's not a snapshot from the development process. It's just reduced version of the full game. In the practice levels, all skills from the full game are available.
One interesting thing is, there are only 50 skills available for the practice (in any version), but in the game 51 skills are used. Do you guys know which skill is absent from the practice levels?

When we speaking about 'new' levels, there are some 'new' levels in the SNES and Megadrive/Grenesis versions. For example, the first 'Sports' level is completely different. Some levels are really new, and some are changed a little. Many SNES levels are different because there are no catapults and chains in the SNES version (some obstacles also missing, e.g. Walker in 'Space' tribe and hand from the dark in 'Cavelem'), and all cannons are fixed at the ground.
SNES version is also unique because there are background pictures on the levels and on the 'Polar' levels snow is falling.

Let's check is anyone here can prove to be 'The Master Lemmings Fan'.
Here are the island maps from all the versions I was able to find (demos and full versions). Only Gameboy map is missing, but this one is so obvious (4 colors monochrome).
Is there anyone capable to recognise all versions maps? I doubt that, but you can prove I am wrong.

Number them as follows:

    1         2         3

    4         5         6

    7         8         9

Haha, nice quiz idea. This one is way too hard for me. I think 4 or 9 is the DOS version (due to the font; I'm inclined to say 4), and 1 and 2 are probably the demo versions as they are missing the name of the tribe (I'd say 1 is DOS and 2 Amiga, for palette consistency between 1 and 4). 3 might be Genesis due to the restricted palette.

But here's an interesting tidbit (though most have probably seen it before already), courtesy of Mike Dailly's flickr, a very old L2 world map:



The blocker skill is missing from the practice screen because (at least in the DOS version), the blocker glitches up in levels that are higher than one screen, and I'm not entirely sure, but I think also in tribes that are not the Classic tribe.

geoo you have just one all correct 'maps quiz' answer.

I figured the graphics format for the demo version of DOS.

Here are all the lemmings sprites that were included: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43603680/vlemms_demo.png
For comparison, the sprites in the final version: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43603680/vlemms_final.png

There are some sprites I'm not sure yet what they belong to, but I don't see much of an indication of what the scrapped skills might have been intended to do. The only thing is the axe guy, which comes after the superlem; the animation looks like planting a tree and then chopping it off?

Then there's the weird dances above N1, I have no idea what that is for. And N1-N11 looks like at some point they wanted to have a tribe-specific nuke animation.

Attached is a side-by-side comparison of the 61-skills display in the demo vs the 50-skills display in the final version.  (Blocker is also in the final version but not available for practice levels, which is where the 50-skills screenshot come from.)

Skills boxed in yellow are uniqued to the version depicted in the particular screenshot.  The other colored boxes are cases where a skill in the demo version looks like it might be the same or similar skill in the final version (so I boxed them same color in both screenshots), despite major difference in the icons.

The one with the wrench in the demo version is the "User" skill.  Your guess is as good as mine as to what the other ones do.  Intriguingly, the one demo skill that's 4th row from top and 2nd column from right, kinda looks like it could be like the "cuber" in Lix?!?   And 5th row from top 1st column from right, that "kicker"-looking skill, I kinda imagine it could behave like "batter" in Lix......

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Anyway, given that it's a demo version, it's pretty expected that you'd find no signs of many of the skills depicted in the screenshot in the actual animation sprites of the game, and on the flip side, finding extra unused animation spirtes that were ultimately dropped for the final game.

geoo tribe-specific nuke animations for each included tribe are in the demos (on the screen); Circus (inflating like a baloons), Medieval (killing himself with a gun? and falling aside) and Polar (melting). Plus (in the final game) Classic tribe animation (just exploding) and animation for all other tribes (exploding and popping-up in the air). All together 5 different nuke animations. Should be 7 more, but they missing.

Let's check is anyone here can prove to be 'The Master Lemmings Fan'.
Here are the island maps from all the versions I was able to find (demos and full versions). Only Gameboy map is missing, but this one is so obvious (4 colors monochrome).
Is there anyone capable to recognise all versions maps? I doubt that, but you can prove I am wrong.

I'm sorry to say that the only one I truly know is the one in the middle. It's the Mega Drive version (which happens to be my favourite version of Lemmings 2) - it's the only one that uses that chunky orange font.

Prob Lem. map in the middle (number 5) is not from Mega Drive.

There are some old skill icons in the full games.

On the PC version we can see some old stile icons in the level select screen (Parachuter and somewhat changed Laser Blaster).



But in the game play, new icons are used.



Another example is FM Towns version, level select screen with some old stile icons.



And the game play (FM Towns) also with some old stille icons.



More old stille icons (FM Towns) on the practice level (Climber and Builder). Also take a look on the Jet Pack (sprite, not icon). He has real flame instead of just dots on the other versions (or even nothing on the SNES).

When we speaking about 'new' levels, there are some 'new' levels in the SNES and Megadrive/Grenesis versions. For example, the first 'Sports' level is completely different. Some levels are really new, and some are changed a little. Many SNES levels are different because there are no catapults and chains in the SNES version (some obstacles also missing, e.g. Walker in 'Space' tribe and hand from the dark in 'Cavelem'), and all cannons are fixed at the ground.
SNES version is also unique because there are background pictures on the levels and on the 'Polar' levels snow is falling.

Yeah, SNES version is quite different with the differences you noted.  I actually complained on one of the old forums that I felt the changes watered down that version of the game, although Mike Dailly was still around at the time and he said the changes were intentional and he thought was overall an improvement.  I guess my perspective came from having played the SNES version of L2 first before I got ahold of the PC and Amiga versions.

Hmm, come to think of it, since we have working L2 editors for the PC version, it would be feasible now to re-create the SNES levels for PC.  Although as I said, I didn't find any of the changes an improvement so I don't know if I would bother myself.

I haven't played the Megadrive/Genesis versions, not aware there are "new" levels in that version?

Prob Lem. map in the middle (number 5) is not from Mega Drive.

Whoah, you're right, hah. You can guess that I never really looked at the map much!

I didn't know that any other version used that font, I must admit.

Anyway, I'd love to know about the above-mentioned "new" levels, too. I've never really played any of the other versions of Lemmings 2, so the Mega Drive levels are the only ones I know. Now I'm curious.

I was able to find footage of the Amiga Demo from The Future Entertainment Show!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnqbJj0Nv6U
The differences are...

The Map screen is not animated. Also there are moved things.
The Level screens Lemmings are not dancing or whatever they are doing... they are standing motionless.
The Tribe images in the level screens are completely different!
The HUD hatch has glitched colors.
The Lemmings don't say "Yippee!" when they go into the exit.
Points are awarded at the end of the levels. This might be taking the side of the SNES version of Lemmings. 
The User skill are available on every level but there are none of them to use 
The Lemmings don't get stunned by the Bomber.
The Stomper is slower and stomps less of the ground?
Seen in the video, the hud color changes.
The Bomber has a different sound.
Lemmings that are stunned have no stars.
Bricks have no shading.

Prob Lem, do you know there are CD audio tracks on the FM Towns version? These songs are different from any other version.

It's hard to say what is 'new'. At least 2 Sports levels are 'new' on the Mega Drive/Genesis compared to computer versions, but they are not 'new' compared to SNES version. Sports tribe level 1 and 5 are completely different on the SNES and Mega Drive/Genesis compared to other versions.
Polar level 1 is different (not much) on the SNES.
Highland 3 on the Mega Drive/Genesis can't be solved as usual (look like some bug).
Egyptian 10 is the hardest to solve on Mega Drive/Genesis. It's the same as in computer versions (SNES version is slightly changed), but it's not possible to use more than one 'Glue Pourer' at once (like it is on computer versions). So, it's much complicated to solve this level on Mega Drive/Genesis, than on any other version. On the Amiga it's very easy because of some bug, can be solved with one 'Mortar' and two 'Glue Pourers' ('Mortar' explosion can blow a hole to the lower level).

Look at these differences on the Outdoor level between Mega Drive/Genesis and SNES.




There are many small diferences between versions and some big differences (like 2 of the Sports levels). Some differences are not visualy significant, but solution can be much different.
I can't remember exactly all differences. There are 7 versions (not counting the Gameboy) and I can't check all of them now, 120x7=840 levels, it's to many.

I am playing all that versions now on the PC (Windows XP) with emulators and with full access to all levels. All can be played with a mouse (except the Gameboy version).
If anyone want's to play (or try to find what is different), I can upload somewhere any version with or without emulator. It's very hard to talk about that if no one other can compare for yourself.

Just checked, SNES 'Beach' level 6 is a 'new' one, completely different from the other versions. And 'Egyptyan' level 10 is easyest on the SNES version (just one Mortar is enough to complete level).

Interesting that we have 10 or so scrapped skills, and yet none looks like a sled or toboggan that could be the Sledger skill mentioned in the Lemmings Adventure Gamebook.

Some brief speculation on skills (topic needs m0ar of this):

• The one between axe and ladder looks to be disintegrating, rather than forming into something. Maybe a teleporter? Control it with two clicks like an archer, could have a limited range so it's not too powerful.
• Ladder could be a one-time climber, like the kayaker.
• I wonder if the sandcastle is actually the sand pourer (with a sandcastle shape, maybe considered too similar to planter). The one next to it looks like he's piecing together the pyramid (builder-like, with tiles) rather than pouring.
• The 'surfer' with sail could be a land-based equivalent of surfer, controlled by fan but stuck to the ground.

• The one between axe and ladder looks to be disintegrating, rather than forming into something.

Well, I saw it as a possible cuber since the stuff below the head looks kinda like a brick wall to me.  Disintegration?  Maybe, but looks too squarish and big to me.

• I wonder if the sandcastle is actually the sand pourer

It's quite possible that the glue pourer and sand pourer don't actually have equivalents in the demo version, especially considering that in contrast, the filler (the remaining "pouring"-type skill) is in both demo and final version.  I sorta try to make a connection between the demo and final-version skills but I have to agree it's debatable here.

At the moment, the ones that baffle me the most are: the fire one left of Icarus wings, the one above the jetpack that looks like he's trying to lift a heavy pole, and the one left of the roper that kinda looks like he's whipping a whip against a pole to lasso it?!?

Prob Lem, do you know there are CD audio tracks on the FM Towns version? These songs are different from any other version.

No, I did not know that. I have zero familiarity with the FM Towns, though, outside of the FM Towns Marty's status as the first CD-ROM-based console. I'll have to look into this - I'm rather fond of all of the Lemmings soundtracks that I know, so I'd love to hear this one. Thanks for the heads-up!

As for the rest of your post, wow, I commend your attention to detail. Thanks very much for writing all of that up - it's very interesting stuff.

At the moment, the ones that baffle me the most are: the fire one left of Icarus wings, the one above the jetpack that looks like he's trying to lift a heavy pole, and the one left of the roper that kinda looks like he's whipping a whip against a pole to lasso it?!?

Be confused about the one with the pole no more. That, without a doubt, would have been a Highland skill - that lemming is lifting a caber. I have a Highland lemming pin that depicts this, even;



I would guess that a lemming can't throw a caber very far, and that maybe it would have been used to bridge small gaps.

As for the one to the left of the roper, it looks to me more like he's karate-chopping a barrier of some sort (it doesn't look like something is wrapped around it, to me, but instead like a comic book-esque impact/sound-effect marking), perhaps to destroy it.

Perhaps the one tending to a fire was intended to destroy parts of the scenery?

Incidentally, I wanted to comment on the one that you marked in red in your side-by-side comparison of the demo and final skill-sets - I believe you are correct with that. It appears that the one in the demo is holding a parafoil, which at that resolution doesn't look particularly clear. I would guess that that's why they replaced it with a parachute. (Also, it looks to me like the Glue Pourer equivalent in the demo is using a caulk-gun...)

Oh cool on the caber toss skill.  Was that pin some sort of official game merchandise and how did you get (make?) it?

You're correct about the parafoil one.  Actually as Leo shown in one of his posts, in the PC final version the parafoil icon is still actually being used in the level select screen to depict the parachuter skill; the proper parachuter icon is only used in the skills toolbar within playing a level.  I thought the parafoil looked familiar even as I made the comparison screenshots, but since it wasn't in the 50-skills screenshot, I couldn't quite remember where I saw it at the time.

Oh cool on the caber toss skill.  Was that pin some sort of official game merchandise and how did you get (make?) it?

It's official! In parts of Europe, the Amiga and MS-DOS versions of Lemmings 2 came with a random pin from a selection of twelve (one for each tribe, of course ) in the box, and you could also order them from Psygnosis back in the day as well for a nominal fee plus postage. I got it from a chap from Germany, complete with the German MS-DOS version of the game, which also had the order form for other merchandise in it (specifically, t-shirts, hats, and mugs, though the hats weren't Lemmings-related), including the pins.

You're correct about the parafoil one.  Actually as Leo shown in one of his posts, in the PC final version the parafoil icon is still actually being used in the level select screen to depict the parachuter skill; the proper parachuter icon is only used in the skills toolbar within playing a level.  I thought the parafoil looked familiar even as I made the comparison screenshots, but since it wasn't in the 50-skills screenshot, I couldn't quite remember where I saw it at the time.

Wow, my eyeballs totally missed that, somehow. I have no idea why.

Pictures from Lemmings 2 pins are also in the game, on the level select screen. They are small and hard to see what actually Lemmings are doing on them. There are some differences between versions (e.g. Mega Drive/Genesis 'Space' is completely different). Here are all of them together (from the PC, I think).

Ah I see.  No wonder the pin also looks familiar to something in the game......

Actually, for the longest time I thought the Highland pin on the level selection screen is depicting a lemming playing a bagpipe or something.   (Hey, when you don't know what a caber is but knows about bagpipe's association with Scotland......)  The actual wearable pin does make it pretty clear it's depicting the caber.

Looking at the pins (the in-game ones), I'm a little striked now at how many all of them are also depicting actual skills, especially when taking into account the demo-only ones:

Beach: attractor
Outdoor: the axe demo-skill
Egyptian: magic carpet
Medieval: archer
Classic: floater
Circus: hopper ? ? ? (possible exception to the rule)
Highland: caber tosser demo-skill
Polar: skater
Space:  okay, admittedly a slight stretch graphically, but could be that demo-skill above the caber that looks like surfboard with flames coming out the back end (which I imagine to be an air version of surfer, think hoverboard)
Cavelem: club basher
Shadow: bazooka
Sports: pole vaulter

Pictures from Lemmings 2 pins are also in the game, on the level select screen. They are small and hard to see what is actually Lemmings doing on them. There are some differences between versions (e.g. Mega Drive/Genesis 'Space' is completely different). Here are all of them together (from the PC, I think).

Nicely spotted! I totally never noticed that... (Though, admittedly, I learned of the pins themselves a bit more recently.)

To go with it, a picture of the complete set of the pins can be found here. In order, it shows;

Medieval; Circus; Cavelem; Space
Beach; Sports; Outdoor; Egyptian
Polar; Classic; Highland; Shadow

(It's worth noting that, whilst the skill used is the same, the Classic pin is not the same as the earliest Lemmings pin that was issued, though. )

Space:  okay, admittedly a slight stretch graphically, but could be that demo-skill above the caber that looks like surfboard with flames coming out the back end (which I imagine to be an air version of surfer, think hoverboard)

I don't actually think that that's a stretch at all, to be honest. Given the artwork, and the disclaimer text in the bottom-left corner on the back of the box for, at the very least, the Amiga version of Lemmings 2*, I'd say that it's probably pretty likely, myself.

*It says "Box images represent character skills within the game", and, if my memory on print lead-times back in those days serves me correctly, it could well have been finalised before the game was completed. (And people think that the "Not actual game footage" disclaimers on game ads these days are a new thing. )

I suppose Space lemming on the Hoverboard skill could be used similar to the Magic Carpet, just because it's weird to use Magic Carpet in the space.


Two different pictures from the 'Level select screen', used on 'Mega Drive/Geneses'.
Space lemming introducing 'Jet pack' skill and Egyptian... 'Blocker' skill? (I just kidding, he's doing nothing at all.)

Let's check is anyone here can prove to be 'The Master Lemmings Fan'.
Here are the island maps from all the versions I was able to find (demos and full versions). Only Gameboy map is missing, but this one is so obvious (4 colors monochrome).
Is there anyone capable to recognise all versions maps? I doubt that, but you can prove I am wrong.

Number them as follows:

    1         2         3

    4         5         6

    7         8         9

I'm going to go with this:

1. Amiga (Demo)
2. DOS (Demo)
3. Mega Drive
4. Amiga
5. SNES
6. Atari ST
7. DOS
8. FM Towns
9. Acorn Archimedes

Amazing. 9 out of 9. All correct. Hats off to you Pooty.