Lemmings Forums

All of the graphic sets (except for Fire, Rock and Bubble) are "unfinished" on the number of graphic terrain pieces there are, and I feel that this is limiting how many levels you can edit using their set. There are up to 64 pieces altogether numbered from 0 to 63. I am currently working on ideas in the Crystal set at the moment, any ideas anyone?

Here's how many terrain pieces there are in each set:

Dirt: 50 pieces (14 needed)
Marble: 60 pieces (4 needed)
Pillar: 62 pieces (2 needed)
Crystal: 37 pieces (27 needed)
Brick: 60 pieces (4 needed)
Snow: 37 pieces (27 needed)

snow and dirt need more "straight piece" "shelf" type pieces, either horizontal edges or straight vertical climbing walls (the latter needs it more than the former).

Bubble, while "finished", needs steel SO BADLY. Drop the useless terrain, add steel. Boom, done.

I've always been more worried about the lack of "constant" traps in my favorite sets (brick, marble), and the lack of "non-constant" traps in the Fire set. Adding those would increase the capabities of my favorite sets soooooo much.

 

If you guys make the graphics, I can take the time one day to write a program to actually incorporate them into the VGAGRx.DAT and GROUNDxO.DAT files.  Not that I have much free time, but it is doable.

I am currently working on ideas in the Crystal set at the moment, any ideas anyone?

More webs?

Seriously though, this set could use more big pieces. Things like rectangular blocks, crystal chunks (the two existing pieces of this type aren't enough to create much variety), right-angled triangle blocks like in the marble tileset. Some platforms between 2 and 16 pixels thick would be nice too. And I think a "flamethrower" trap that spews out thousands of tiny crystal shards would work here too.

If you are able to incorporate new traps into the styles, I'm happy for you to use the traps from my Cheapo styles. I have a vertical flameshooter single-lemming trap in the Fire style and a fire object in Brick, so Insane Steve will be happy I also added traps to the other styles so every style would have four deadly objects.

I've always been more worried about the lack of "constant" traps in my favorite sets (brick, marble).

Well, marble does have a double flamethrower trap (You know, object 9). So I wouldn't worry about that.

Quote from: minimac on 2009-10-08 01:06:22

I am currently working on ideas in the Crystal set at the moment, any ideas anyone?

More webs?

Okay, not such a bad idea, and I may add that, but I was thinking of cornered glass pieces like the one cleverly made in Taxing 28. Also I would want those thin white planks (30, 31 and 35) to be flat or standing up. The same goes with the dark blue planks as well.

If you make the graphics, I can take the time one day to write a program to actually incorporate them into the VGAGRx.DAT and GROUNDxO.DAT files.

Dam, I was wondering if this topic relates to GroundxO.dat files and it does. I wonder what the difference is between the GroundxO.dat file and the VGAGRx.dat file.

I wonder what the difference is between the GroundxO.dat file and the VGAGRx.dat file.

The VGAGRx.DAT files contain all the bitmaps (graphics) for all terrains and objects of a particular graphics set.  The GroundxO.dat contains all the non-graphical information, such as how the terrain/object ID numbers map to which bitmaps in VGAGRx.DAT, the width and height of the bitmap, how many frames of animation there are for an object, what kind of object (eg. constant traps, triggered traps, exits, etc.), and things like that.  Basically, drawing a parallel from Cheapo, the GroundxO.dat would be like the .stt files and VGAGRx.DAT would be the bitmap files.

Diagnol pillars
for the pillar set

Diagnol pillars
for the pillar set

Interesting! That will rap up the pillar set, although there are only 2 slots to fill in. Hmm...

BTW I found something quirky in the crystal set: Pieces 3 and 5 are exactly the same shape, colour and size. Is it possible to replace one of those with another terrain texture or not?

Edit: I have just thought of an idea. I had the PSP version of lemmings until mine wasn't working anymore, and I believed that some terrain pieces were different in the PSP in comparison to the PC. I do like help from other PSP players that's for sure.

Is it possible to replace one of those with another terrain texture or not?

Definitely possible.  However, I would not recommend it if you want to keep the graphics set compatible with existing levels that uses it, because some levels might have used piece 3 while others use piece 5, or both are used.  Remember that unlike Cheapo, changing existing terrain in the graphics set will affect all levels using that terrain in that graphics set, unless you make it a new graphics set.

Edit: I have just thought of an idea. I had the PSP version of lemmings until mine wasn't working anymore, and I believed that some terrain pieces were different in the PSP in comparison to the PC. I do like help from other PSP players that's for sure.

That would be nice, but remember that you are a lot more restricted in color in Lemmix/DOS Lemmings, so while you can replicate the shapes of the PSP terrain pieces, you'll have to make them less colorful to work with the existing terrain pieces in a given graphics set.

Good point about that.

Anyway, I've come up with some images of planned extension pieces for the crystal set. The big white cross does look similar, but if you compare that with piece 35 (Which have a few pixels missing in some corners) I think this piece is better.

Have you ever played "Poor Wee Creatures" in DOS or Amiga?  They use that trick with the corner pieces.  It really isn't very complicated.

I already have mentioned that in the middle of the page. Have you not bothered to look?

Anyway, I am putting Giga's ideas of diagonal pillars into perspective.* To fill up more space I could replace those boring grey peas (58 and 59) and possibly some planks too, but the main objective is this: Get all 64 pieces up first, then replace the useless ones. Pillar only needs two so it's such an easy target.

*OK then. Here are the diagonal pillars! They look a little small to be honest compared with the other pillars.

Here are my ideas for marble. Do you agree with all of them?

Also, some good news about what ccexplore has said, I will put in 4 steel blocks for the bubble set to replace some joint bubbles. Maybe I could delete pieces 9, 15, 31 and 32 (I know those are random but do you agree?).

Guess what folks, I fancy my green steel blocks in the dirt set.

CCCCCOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLL

Well, since my mum liked them as well I will put them up now.* I decided to set these green steel blocks in different sizes too, so you wouldn't complain about steel area.

*Here are the current pieces so far, all 14 uploaded with the only big piece as a diagonal rock. I think we ran short of diagonal rock ramps apart from the one in the rock version.

Isn't there already a tree?
Unless that's the one you claim to have copied.

Isn't there already a tree?

Well, there's only the horizontal branch, the vertical branch may be from the PSP version.

I remember the vertical branch from Cheapo.

Asking for steel pieces in bubble now... Do you want gold steel or blue steel?
And for the steel in the snow set... Do you want gold steel there as well or stick with green?

I'd definitely prefer gold steel for Bubble. Snow has steel already so I don't see any reason to change it.

I rather like the appearance of the Bubble style steel pieces on Cheapo.

Snow set
horzontle poles
diagnol poles
horzontle icicles
bent poles (left,right, and upside down)
curved poles

what about ojects....
ice shooter (pointing left)
thin ice trap

I'd definitely prefer gold steel for Bubble. Snow has steel already so I don't see any reason to change it.

Yeah... I suppose. I tried the snow steel in different colours (A white block and a gold block) and they both look freaky apart from the green.

Gold steel for bubble huh? My gosh, that was a one-sided question.

I rather like the appearance of the Bubble style steel pieces on Cheapo.

Oh yeah, I've seen those for a short time. They do look different (Are the rivets red?) But according to the narrow range of colours on the DOS, I probably wouldn't accept it, even though they look modern.

Here are the steel blocks for bubble, with freaking blue rivets!

Snow set
horizontal poles
diagonal poles
horizontal icicles
bent poles (left,right, and upside down)
curved poles

You're coming up with great ideas Giga! Odd to say this but I'm proud of you, because there are so many terrain slots to fill in in the snow set. What I also planned to do is grab some Xmas lemmings pieces and put them onto the snow set, which fills up 10 slots (I think) so there are 17 to go.

Hey, I like the steel. That won't look out of place at all

Are you planning to add to the Christmas tileset as well? Because there's plenty of Christmassy stuff that's missing there - trees, presents, candy canes... although AFAIK there's no red in that tileset, but you do have white, green and brown.

although AFAIK there's no red in that tileset, but you do have white, green and brown?

I think there is red (as an object). You know the flag on top of the exit don't you?

Anyway, I have seen green and white candy canes around.

I don't know about this, but I think the colour selections for terrain and objects are separate, and you can't interchange the colours between them to circumvent the limits. You'd have to ask ccexplore (or maybe geoo?) for a definitive answer.

Green and white for candy canes would work though. And brown is definitely available (for Xmas trees), since the snowman pieces use this colour.

I'm sticking candy canes with red and white, and I'll use them as a trap.

Because I worked out the colours for the lemming, here are the frames for it, ordered from top to bottom.

Right then, here's my snow set so far... The cane trap was posted on a separate post. Tell me about any graphic  you don't like.

Just one set to go, and I'm finished (Not for the objects, I'll add them later). The only set left is the brick set, and we only need four.

Edit: I still need to add some more crystal textures, there's a long way to go.

The trees in both need some work.  I would recommend flipping the horizontal tree in the dirt set for that, and in the snow, also edit the coloring.

The polar tribe from Lemmings 2 has snow-covered trees. You could steal those...

I am doing that now. Any ideas for the brick set? (There's only 4 to think about)

Yeah, I've got a few ideas for this one. How about:

• Horizontal girders (to go with the existing vertical ones)
• White blocks (like #42) with the diagonal line going the other way (just inverting it messes with the lighting effects...)
• Bigger blocks made from the tiny bricks (#21 and #22) and diagonal bricks (#17 through #20)

...vertical steps, like in the Cheapo version? (The ones abused in the Oblivion levels )

OK lads, I've tried my best for the brick set, but all the terrain pieces are so useful I didn't really like any of them replaced. But here we go. 4 will be added on and the other 4 will replace the pies (Even though Clam Spammer's Training Zone Alpha level was rather useful there )

I'm not very good at converting colours for Xmas trees The igloo from L2 was OK, and so was the pack of snowballs. I may do footprints too.

I really would like this thread to be done, so that we may be able to play these pieces in multiplayer lemmings.

So, I would like to finish crystal, but not all 27 were made. I recently made a post with the crystal proposal attachment so that you can see which ones were made.

Quote from: minimac on 2009-10-08 08:49:16

I wonder what the difference is between the GroundxO.dat file and the VGAGRx.dat file.

The VGAGRx.DAT files contain all the bitmaps (graphics) for all terrains and objects of a particular graphics set.  The GroundxO.dat contains all the non-graphical information, such as how the terrain/object ID numbers map to which bitmaps in VGAGRx.DAT, the width and height of the bitmap, how many frames of animation there are for an object, what kind of object (eg. constant traps, triggered traps, exits, etc.), and things like that.  Basically, drawing a parallel from Cheapo, the GroundxO.dat would be like the .stt files and VGAGRx.DAT would be the bitmap files.

If vgagrx.DAT contains the bitmaps, then I guess groundxO.dat contains colour pallets?  After all, don't forget Genesis Groundx

Why Genesis Groundx? We don't have Genesis anymore.

Here's a link to let you know how many pieces I have for the crystal set.

How bout traps
dirt

---

Brigde trap
Boulder trap

fire

---

Welder trap

marble

---

Hammer trap

pillar

---

Longer distans wall shooters
Wooden crusher

cristal

---

Cristal crusher
Cristal laser

Why Genesis Groundx? We don't have Geniesis anymore.

Here's a link to let you know how many pieces I have for the crystal set.

When text is quoted, do you read it?  I was replying to a post by ccexplore a while back about the difference between Groundx0 and VGAGRx.  Genesis Groundx changes colour pallets but only requires the modified Groundx0.dat files.
Reread the quoted post below.

Quote from: ccexplore on 2009-10-08 13:47:45

Quote from: minimac on 2009-10-08 08:49:16

I wonder what the difference is between the GroundxO.dat file and the VGAGRx.dat file.

The VGAGRx.DAT files contain all the bitmaps (graphics) for all terrains and objects of a particular graphics set.  The GroundxO.dat contains all the non-graphical information, such as how the terrain/object ID numbers map to which bitmaps in VGAGRx.DAT, the width and height of the bitmap, how many frames of animation there are for an object, what kind of object (eg. constant traps, triggered traps, exits, etc.), and things like that.  Basically, drawing a parallel from Cheapo, the GroundxO.dat would be like the .stt files and VGAGRx.DAT would be the bitmap files.

If vgagrx.DAT contains the bitmaps, then I guess groundxO.dat contains colour pallets?  After all, don't forget Genesis Groundx

Can you extend object sets