Post by: Luis on September 28, 2010, 10:43:53 PM
Post by: Clam on September 28, 2010, 11:11:45 PM
I don't know where the term came from, but a "backroute" refers to a level solution that the designer didn't intend to be possible, and is (usually) easier than the intended solution(s). Backroutes often make use of glitches, eg. bashing under the one-way wall in Fun 11.
Post by: ccexplore on September 29, 2010, 08:55:15 PM
Backroutes often make use of glitches
I think that's more true for the official levels than custom levels. I've backrouted plenty of other people's custom levels without using any glitches.
Post by: klapaucius on October 01, 2010, 03:17:30 AM
Maybe the creator of this level designed this level to using two climbers, two blockers and three miners for making the way and free the one blocker.. but he gived us BUILDERS AND BASHERS.
Therefore.. almost all of players used builders and a basher for beat this level, and this level has become to too easy to beat. :-)
Post by: ccexplore on October 01, 2010, 03:48:44 AM
I think one of the clearest examples of backroute in PC versions of Lemmings is level Wild 9 ("Ice Station Lemmings") in PC version of "Oh No! More Lemmings". Due to a glitch in the PC version (see below), you can solve that level without using a single skill:
Quote from: spoiler (highlight to read)
A short bit after the first lemming comes out from the top entrance trapdoor, nuke the level. The aim is to time the nuking so that no more lemmings come out after that first one, but the first one has enough time to walk to and enter the exit nearby before the countdown finishes.
The glitch in PC Lemmings is that after you start nuking, the game calculates the save percentage using only the lemmings that have entered the level before the nuking, not the total number of lemmings available to the level. So in this case, the game incorrectly thinks you have saved 1 out of 1 lemming and incorrectly lets you pass the level from a bogus 100% save percentage.
Post by: namida on November 26, 2010, 09:51:08 AM
Post by: Dullstar on November 27, 2010, 09:38:26 PM
Post by: ccexplore on November 28, 2010, 12:38:24 AM
Post by: namida on December 02, 2010, 09:13:32 AM
Post by: Luis on December 15, 2010, 03:20:40 AM
Post by: Clam on December 15, 2010, 04:37:28 AM
Post by: Luis on October 02, 2011, 01:20:30 AM
Post by: DoubleU on October 30, 2011, 10:30:00 PM
What I hate is when you have a good clean design, with a nice-looking solution, and then you find a backroute that forces you to clutter it with extra terrain and steel pieces.That's the beauty of level designing! Lemmings are "incredible contortionists", as the manual says, which forces the level design to learn to "say" exactly what he means. According to Mike Dailly's webpage level designer Dave Jones had a lot of trouble with this, and a lot of feedback from his colleagues.
I gotta say it, though, there are plenty more examples. "PoP YoR ToP!!!" and "PoP TiL YoU DrOp!", both of which clearly were meant to use exploders and both of which can be passed without using a single one. "KEEP ON TRUCKING" was likely meant to use all its blockers, but if you stretch your builders you can save three blockers.
Post by: Luis on October 31, 2011, 12:55:45 AM
Lemmings Mayhem Level 7 Poles Apart (PSP)
Post by: Clam on October 31, 2011, 07:49:18 AM
That's the beauty of level designing! Lemmings are "incredible contortionists", as the manual says, which forces the level design to learn to "say" exactly what he means. According to Mike Dailly's webpage level designer Dave Jones had a lot of trouble with this, and a lot of feedback from his colleagues.Hah, I wouldn't mind a little more feedback from my colleagues
Quote
"KEEP ON TRUCKING" was likely meant to use all its blockers, but if you stretch your builders you can save three blockers.I don't know why they don't just use steel to block the way to the exit, instead you get a bunch of crystals that you can just bash through. Though maybe in this case, they weren't good enough at the game to complete the level by that route (which is conceivable, the game was still fairly new then). "HIGHLAND FLING" is a worse example, you can just bash through the wall at the start, yet the intention seems to be to build and block around it. And worse still is the Holiday level "A Single Lemming", which is so badly backrouted that it's hard to even imagine what the intended solution might be.
This video is not mine. The PSP version of Poles Apart has a backroute.Porting levels to other platforms is another matter entirely. I know this from personal experience, as I've 'ported' some of my levels to Lix. Subtle changes in the lemmings' abilities (in your case, bashers continuing with lower terrain in front of them) can have unexpected consequences. That makes it all the more important to playtest the levels well - which sadly, of course, isn't the forté of game developers on a tight schedule
Post by: DoubleU on November 01, 2011, 01:46:21 AM
If you ask me, part of the Crazy rating was making things not 100% obvious, thus they had to find a way to do it without steel. As for Blizzard 6, Holiday Lemmings was meant to be easy and not as painful as ONML or later levels of original Lemmings. Why shouldn't it be that you have to bash from the far side? You can try instead bashing from the near side, or digging in, but neither of those seem to work.That's the beauty of level designing! Lemmings are "incredible contortionists", as the manual says, which forces the level design to learn to "say" exactly what he means. According to Mike Dailly's webpage level designer Dave Jones had a lot of trouble with this, and a lot of feedback from his colleagues.Hah, I wouldn't mind a little more feedback from my colleaguesQuote"KEEP ON TRUCKING" was likely meant to use all its blockers, but if you stretch your builders you can save three blockers.I don't know why they don't just use steel to block the way to the exit, instead you get a bunch of crystals that you can just bash through. Though maybe in this case, they weren't good enough at the game to complete the level by that route (which is conceivable, the game was still fairly new then). "HIGHLAND FLING" is a worse example, you can just bash through the wall at the start, yet the intention seems to be to build and block around it. And worse still is the Holiday level "A Single Lemming", which is so badly backrouted that it's hard to even imagine what the intended solution might be.
Post by: finlay on November 01, 2011, 10:52:36 PM
Post by: DoubleU on November 02, 2011, 03:00:21 AM
Post by: finlay on November 02, 2011, 11:40:09 AM
Post by: Minim on November 03, 2011, 07:25:55 AM
Post by: Luis on November 16, 2011, 06:09:38 AM
Lemmings Taxing-27 97% Solution (lost only 3)
It's possible to beat it like that in the PSP too. I lost 5, since I used the second and third Lemmings as bombers to make sure I make the terrain low enough to get pass the ceiling.
Post by: Luis on April 20, 2013, 12:13:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd_dI9D2tKU
Post by: Proxima on April 20, 2013, 12:59:15 AM
Post by: Luis on April 20, 2013, 07:56:32 AM