there's very little satisfaction in pulling off challenging execution when the engine gives you that much help.
I know it's tempting to use any help given, but we're not forced to do so, are we? Pit Droids - and, as far as I could tell, Lix as well - also have the option of giving you "tipps" on how to solve the level. This means, where framestepping, replay function and skill blueprints facilitate the execution, tipps facilitate the puzzling aspect. Yet, most of us probably would have the pride not to use the tipps unless absolutely necessary
, wouldn't we?
The same could be applied to execution based levels. Yes, of course I could rush through We all fall down in Neo Lemmix by setting the release rate to 99 and playing the entire level with the pause button turned on. But instead, I enjoy the breath of fresh air of having a reaction- and timing based level, especially if the preceding one was a puzzly one that "tied a knot into my mind" ^^.
The presence of an option is by far the most dangerous and false thing you can do,
Well, dangerous to what, exactly? The philosophy? If you're the conservative voice, I guess that makes me the libertarian one
, in this case advising for a "free market of ideas": I believe if the community generally agrees that puzzling levels are the best levels anyway, the packs that you, namida, Nepster & Co. create will still come out on top as the most popular packs. In contrast, packs that use a lot of "mean" stuff or just elements that are not favoured by the community will not become popular and therefore won't have a huge impact, neither positive nor negative. So I don't really see what you would have to fear.
If it's about the complexity of the code, which I believe someone mentioned - old code interfering with new one, so the old one was removed - that's a pragmatic reason I can understand easily. There's no need to put in 80% more effort for something that would probably get used 20% of the time or less. I wouldn't ask for any of this if it had to be created all anew; I only do so because it did exist at an earlier point in time.
But no-one on this forum is making new Lemmix content. So why should anyone put in the effort to add new features to original Lemmix?
Exactly. I enjoy the features of Neo Lemmix myself, after all, so I don't see the use in distributing this stuff across different platforms. Philosophically however, my pack will probably be "new Lemmix content" indeed
. At least if I understood the philosophy of Lemmix correctly.
So overall you will have to come up with a lot more convincing arguments, before we consider implementing Exploders. There is no shortage of ideas for new features, with the best candidates being currently:
- Exits that restrict the number or types of lemmings who can enter.
- Some version of the L2 Shimmier.
- And possibly the jumper, though getting the physics right will be extremely difficult.
The jumper certainly would be much higher on my priority list than timed exploders , so we seem to have common ground there. If I understood it correctly, the issue with the jumper is that
knockback is needed? I saw that Lix has knockback, and so has Lemmings 2.
So perhaps let me chime in on that:
Have any of you ever played Pingus? It's a Linux clone, but, as the name implies, you command a horde of penguins rather than lemmings. It features exactly the same skills as regular lemmings, plus a jumper, and it has no knockback:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLXIT59il6o&spfreload=10(Nevermind that the video is in German, it's just about demonstrating the skills.)
Limited number-exits would be another feature familiar to me from Pit Droids. Since I've described that game as about as puzzly as it gets, I predict the Neo Lemmix community is going to enjoy that!
I also like the Shimmier, I think it has been used way too little in L2. My main issue with that game is actually not the huge choice of skills itself, but rather the ridiculousness of some skills, or how they are almost purely execution-based (Super-Lemming, Jet Pack, Twister etc.). There are skills that can solve a level single-handedly if a player knows how to handle them, or be the reason for him getting stuck just because he can't handle a Jet Pack. These skills, in combination with knockback, turned Lemmings 2: The Tribes into Worms for me
. Still, I wouldn't want them to be removed from that game; apparently, I just need to keep practicing using the jet pack ^^.
I am however always in favour of skills that "fill gaps", by doing things no other skill can, but might be needed frequently. Sometimes they fill gaps literally, like the Glue Pourer (which usually makes Fillers and Sand Pourers redundant). But also some way of upward digging. I noticed that the
Laser Blaster has been suggested as well, with the concern being that it broke too many levels on Lemmings 2 - many Laser Blasters lead the rest of the crowd from the trap door right to the exit. But that's an issue that could easily be solved by stretching out levels or adding steel.
Something that never occured on any Lemmings game is a downward builder (unless we want to count the roper). Upward digging and downward building are pretty much the only "gaps" remaining; apart from that, lemmings can both create and destroy into any direction.
Excellent point! I just realized that the current version lacks blueprints for lemmings walking through Radiation or Slowfreeze objects!
I'd certainly prefer that over throwing them out entirely, as IchoTolot suggested
. Because that would either create more inconsistency - older packs including radiation & slowfreeze, making newer players think "I want that, too, why is it gone?" - or all the old levels that contain radiation / slowfreeze would have to be revamped; which we can probably all agree on would be loads of unnecessary work
.
Giving blueprints to radiation & slowfreeze would also be a good way to test the waters for walking bombers & stoners without having to (re-)create a skill such as the exploder. Let's just improve upon these already existing objects first, especially before we throw them out entirely. Perhaps people will like the blueprints for those objects, and if so, exploders could be reconsidered. If not... I guess most level creators would just stop using radiation & slowfreeze anyway in that case, since the prevalence already seems to be quite low at the moment
.
Both games are open source, so you are more than welcome to use their source code to create and support your own engine, where you can add the timing aspect and any new skill you like.
Yeah, I thought about looking into that
, especially after one of you said that "Zombies pressing buttons" thing would only take a few lines of code. However, I'm only somewhat familiar with Python so far, so unless NeoLemmix is based on that, this will certainly be more of a long-term thing
.