Lix Community Level Set

[Nortaneous]

You seem to have the filenames the wrong way round. That one's Lix Lata.

Here's the right one.

And a completely ridiculous edit of Laser Deathroom.

[Proxima]

Solutions to both.

EDIT: This solution to Laser Deathroom 2 is way overcomplicated. It can be done with just 2 miners and 2 builders (and nothing else) or, using extra skills, it can be done in 13 seconds. No replays for these, they're both very simple.

[Nortaneous]

...Bah. I can't see any way of preventing that sort of solution, so here's the one I had in mind.

[geoo]

Ok, I haven't checked the forum because I moved out last weekend, so I'm slowly catching up with things in here again. Not sure when I'll get around to updating the list, but I'll be probably away from Thursday to Saturday again.

There's so many versions of Slipping Again, which ones of these are supposed to make it into the set?
Had a go at the latest Slipping Again2, saving 3 builders.

Wreck is an amazing level, I really love the design of it. My solution involved digging down the mast of the ship and cubing to bridge both gaps at once.

I solved Thomas the Climber exactly the same way as Clam did, I wonder whether that's the intended solution? (Turning the climber is a bit of a trick move here.)

Destroy, a slight variation on the other solutions, it feels slightly more elegant to me though.

Laser Deathroom, I really love this one as well. The solutions posted here felt a bit messy, so I attached another version of the level that pulls off the trick in a somewhat cleaner and more efficient way (laser4). If we're already on about making a bunch of versions of this level, I also made one version (laser3) which features the first solution I found, which uses a somewhat different setup (and takes over 12 minutes ). See if you can find it; I'm not sure which version I prefer.
Either way, this level offers itself for a 2 or 3 parter, one part featuring the horizontal bridge from Nortaneous' first solution, and the other featuring the sophisticated solution. (I don't think there's a level featuring the horizontal bridge yet.)
Nortaneous' laser2 is certainly interesting, but extremely technical (and I think removing the backroute would involve some more precise laser placement at the bottom).

Oh, and I think the bitmap/wurst directory (from which one tile is featured in the latest Lix Ferenda) isn't supposed to be in Lix, I suspect it got into the binary bundle by accident when Simon packed it.

[Simon]

the bitmap/wurst directory (from which one tile is featured in the latest Lix Ferenda) isn't supposed to be in Lix, I suspect it got into the binary bundle by accident when Simon packed it.

Confirmed, it should have been excluded, and will so in the next version. It's just old and temporary testing things that will get moved or scrapped. Please avoid stuff from bitmap/wurst/ inside published levels.

-- Simon

[Nortaneous]

Slipping Again got a bit messy. There are two, which I suppose could be color-coded. (This leaves open the possibility of a third, but I've got nothing, unless there's a way to force my original solution.)

And a fixed version of Lix Ferenda. Is it possible to save 60 without the runner?

[Proxima]

And a fixed version of Lix Ferenda. Is it possible to save 60 without the runner?

Yes, 64 in fact. I have to say -- although I will still have a try at making a hard version of the first Lix Lata, just because I set myself this as a challenge and it should be fun to attempt -- the latest revisions have made it a very good and difficult puzzle level, and I'm sure I can't make one that's nearly as good. The only thing I'm not so keen on is that the route is signposted by the heavy use of lasers; but it's still a tremendous challenge to work out how to get sufficient lix home with the given skills.

I solved Thomas the Climber exactly the same way as Clam did, I wonder whether that's the intended solution? (Turning the climber is a bit of a trick move here.)

I said already that Clam's solution is intended. I discovered the trick of turning one of two climbers by bashing a thin pillar a step back when solving Wild 13 for max% -- it's an interesting trick but extremely specialised, because it requires very particular circumstances to be useful. So I wanted to see if I could make a level where the trick is required, without it being really obvious, and without simply remaking Wild 13 with 77/80 required. Looks like I succeeded

[chaos_defrost]

Here's a variant of Laser Deathroom where Nortaneous's original build/dig/build/dig solution is intended. 50/50 is possible but 49/50 is intentionally left for consistency between it and the other version. I'm not sure if either of geoo's versions' solutions work on this one.

EDIT: And a LemEdit Remake, ISteve10 Level 4. There's no OWW in Lix but the terrain shape and a slight bit of skill retooling and it's all good.

[Nortaneous]

Saved 17. The builder timing is tricky, but not strictly necessary, since there's a digger left over.

(Also, I went back to play through the non-wip pack, and managed to save six in Another Lix in the Wall. I'm considering raising the requirement to that, instead of five, but on the other hand, there's a bit where the timing has to be just right to pull that off.)

[chaos_defrost]

Shoot. Forgot that Lix turn when they dig into steel, whereas Lemmings don't. That's going to create a host of problems trying to remake this.

[Simon]

The digger behavior on hitting steel can actually be debated. I never found one way much more appealing than the other. Turning is merely d'accord with all other ground removers.

-- Simon

[Proxima]

As I've said a few times, I'm firmly in favour of changing the digger-on-steel behaviour, for the following reasons:

* Conceptually, it makes little sense that a digger should change his horizontal direction because of finding an obstacle below him. The "consistency" argument therefore holds no water.
* Retaining Lemmings behaviour makes it simpler to remake old levels without having to worry about how the change will affect them.
* Many levels use the fact that climbers will always climb a wall as a puzzle element -- i.e. you know you have to turn the climber to make him do some work, but it's not obvious how. Making the turning automatic if diggers are used severely cuts down the range of possibilities open to the designer. (One way round this is to replace the steel with very thin normal terrain with something deadly beneath, and provide a batter to stop the digger, but this can easily lead to unwanted additional solutions, or just lead to previously neat levels looking weird.)
* Conversely, I can't think of any situation in which the current Lix behaviour helps the level designer. If you want to make it possible to turn around against steel, you can either replace the digger with a miner, or add a walker, or alter the terrain in order to turn the lix.

[ccexplore]

Just for the fun of throwing more confusion to the matter, if I recall correctly in Lemmings 2 they no longer turn even miners and bashers on steel, even in Classic tribe.  They simply stop but continue in the same direction.

I do think that pragmatically, keeping the Lemmings 1 behavior (bashers and miners turn, but diggers don't) would probably be the best option, for all the reasons already mentioned.  Even my "Brickout" level could probably use some steel in place of some gears, if I wasn't so worried about the potential unwanted behavior associated with diggers turning on steel.

The digger behavior in Lemmings is really not so inconsistent, if you consider the fact that diggers can also dig down one-way-walls facing either direction, strongly implying that the designers never considered diggers to have explicit horizontal interactions.  Granted, they don't do the sweeping thing like they do in Lix, but if I recall, the sweeping movement is also a point of contention due to the various effects you get when interrupted mid-sweep.

[Proxima]

Replays for Steve's tree level and Another Lix in the Wall, 6/10 saved. I don't think it's a good idea to require this, since the climb/bomb is a bit less interesting and is used on lots of other levels. It's interesting that the min spawn interval being 4 makes the right-side solution a little trickier; perhaps you should enforce this by removing the walker?

[Nortaneous]

That replay doesn't work for me; can you post the version of the level you have? (Here's mine, and my solution.)