New unofficial online Lemmings game...

[finlay]

I think it would be ok to have all levels unlocked from the start, since you can't get on the leaderboard unless you complete the level. Of course, as mentioned already, it would be better if you didn't have to login through Facebook.

I might add an option to add your name without logging into Facebook.  Would anyone consider logging in via other sites such as Twitter?  And why don't people like logging in through Facebook?  It doesn't post spam all over your friends walls like some FB games!

It doesn't? Well, this isn't particularly obvious... it's generally expected that if a game wants you to log in via twitter or facebook it also wants to spam your feeds. Plus, I don't particularly want my full name on the internet if I can help it... but then I have spelled my surname on facebook with czech characters so that people can't search for me anyway so I'm probably just being fussy. Have you ever seen the login system on TVTropes? It's quite a simple one: pick a name and password (which doesn't have any restrictions like length or having to have numbers and letters, since it's not like it's worth anyone's time to steal it) and the site remembers it and puts a little cookie on your computer with just the name and password. No email confirmation or anything like that, because that's just annoying.

[Simon]

And why don't people like logging in through Facebook?  It doesn't post spam all over your friends walls like some FB games!

The likely reason is avoidance of Facebook and similar sites. I even have several different Google/Yahoo/etc. accounts for third-party sites that use Open-ID (maybe consider supporting these), to minimize inter-site tracking. I'm paranoid in general though. :-)

Well, currently I'm using level data from DHTML Lemmings which only included 40 levels.  And I don't know if it's in the same format as the standard Lemmings level data (I doubt it).  Is there a guide anywhere detailing the data format/structure etc?

Yes, there are thorough description of DOS L1's binary files.

You will probably know that Sony is the current copyright holder for Lemmings, and Sony tends to attack trademark and copyright infringements more often than other companies. The chance that they'll cease-and-desist you is still extremely slim. You should just remember to avoid some obvious pitfalls: Don't try to push your game into Apple's appstore or similar depots where its maintainers thoroughly review each entry. Don't ask Sony whether they're fine with the game. I don't want to spread fear, nor do I want you to stop making the game -- you are preserving culture and thus doing the right thing. (If you're interested, this old post of mine compares the fates of other third-party Lemmings clones.)

-- Simon

[bombsite]

Plus, I don't particularly want my full name on the internet if I can help it...

Good point.

Have you ever seen the login system on TVTropes? It's quite a simple one

Simple is good!  I'll look into it.

You will probably know that Sony is the current copyright holder for Lemmings, and Sony tends to attack trademark and copyright infringements more often than other companies. The chance that they'll cease-and-desist you is still extremely slim. You should just remember to avoid some obvious pitfalls: Don't try to push your game into Apple's appstore or similar depots where its maintainers thoroughly review each entry. Don't ask Sony whether they're fine with the game. I don't want to spread fear, nor do I want you to stop making the game -- you are preserving culture and thus doing the right thing.

I think I read that post before I started making the game!  I contacted Tim Wright and Mike Dailly who said it should be OK as long as it's not for profit.  Tim gave me permission to use his original Amiga music which he still owns the copyright to.  I believe Mike said he doesn't own any of the rights to Lemmings any more unfortunately.  I did message Take2 via their website (I didn't give any details as to the whereabouts of the game etc.) asking if they were OK with this kind of thing if it's not for profit, but they didn't reply anyway.  I don't even know if they actually own any rights to Lemmings?

The problems with the other versions seems to have occured due to the creator trying to sell the product, and also using the Lemmings logos and trademarks.

I've also noted under my game that the original Lemmings games are still available to purchase which may keep Sony happy.

[DragonsLover]

- I'm now stuck on "Poles Apart": Diggers won't dig through the poles. They immediately stop when they dig the first row. In fact, I got the same bug occuring when a Digger dug next to another Digger hole.
- Talking about Diggers, they should keep digging even if there's a pixel or two in their "digging area". I got a Digger to dig in a stair and immediately falls afterwards without making a gap in the stair.
- In some cases, it's impossible to assign a Miner or a Digger to a Lemming, especially over a stair. For the Miner, it's like if the Lemming must be next to a wall.
- It may occurs that a basher stops bashing when he almost reaches the end of his tunnel, causing him and his followers to be stuck so that I must assign an additional Basher.
- Assigning a Miner to a Lemming over a 1-2 pixel height platform causes him to fall through the platform without leaving a hole. This can be best experienced in "It's hero time" level. The same thing occurs when there's 1-2 pixel remaining to mine which can be annoying since Lemmings above can't fall along with the Miner.
- I already told that one : Miners can sometimes mine through steel and if we assign another skill to them, they become stuck even if there's void around.
- Similarly, I got a Bomber to make a hole in the steel. Well, walkers could walk "in the air" above where the steel area is.
- When holding the LMB over a .GIF object or a stair to scroll the map, it may stops scrolling.
- The climber climbing "in the air" bug like it was the case on "A ladder would be handy" is still there.

[bombsite]

- I'm now stuck on "Poles Apart": Diggers won't dig through the poles. They immediately stop when they dig the first row. In fact, I got the same bug occuring when a Digger dug next to another Digger hole.
- Talking about Diggers, they should keep digging even if there's a pixel or two in their "digging area". I got a Digger to dig in a stair and immediately falls afterwards without making a gap in the stair.
- In some cases, it's impossible to assign a Miner or a Digger to a Lemming, especially over a stair. For the Miner, it's like if the Lemming must be next to a wall.
- It may occurs that a basher stops bashing when he almost reaches the end of his tunnel, causing him and his followers to be stuck so that I must assign an additional Basher.
- Assigning a Miner to a Lemming over a 1-2 pixel height platform causes him to fall through the platform without leaving a hole. This can be best experienced in "It's hero time" level. The same thing occurs when there's 1-2 pixel remaining to mine which can be annoying since Lemmings above can't fall along with the Miner.
- I already told that one : Miners can sometimes mine through steel and if we assign another skill to them, they become stuck even if there's void around.
- Similarly, I got a Bomber to make a hole in the steel. Well, walkers could walk "in the air" above where the steel area is.

I've made improvements to the hole making functions so most of the above issues should now be fixed.  Selection diggers and miners on bumpy terrain may be temperamental and explosion holes may sometimes appear in steel to the left of or above an exploded Lemming but they do not actually exist in the map - I am currently trying to fix these bugs.

Also, I've changed the 'Instant Death' hotkey to SHIFT-Q as CTRL-Q shuts down Firefox in Ubuntu!

[DragonsLover]

It's still not perfect: I got a major problem on "The Crossroads" where Bashers were bashing IN THE AIR!

[bombsite]

It's still not perfect: I got a major problem on "The Crossroads" where Bashers were bashing IN THE AIR!

Do you mean after they had been bashing, they still continued for a bit?

I've been playing 'Lend a helping hand' in Lemmix and I've noticed that if you explode a Lemming next to a steel wall with soft ground underneath it will put a hole in the ground and the steel.  Is this how it's supposed to work?

[Simon]

Steel detection and steel removal are hightly abstruse subjects in L1. An exploder will either remove all pixels around him or none, depending on what he's standing on. Same for basher, miner, or digger swings.

You will get weird behaviors to consider if you want 100 percent L1 physics. The game keeps an array of effects for all locations of a level. Blockers generate a field of influence which cancels steel areas on this array, and the old information gets written back if the blocker is removed. This leads to exploits where exit areas are moved by falling oh-noing blockers.

-- Simon

[ccexplore]

I've been playing 'Lend a helping hand' in Lemmix and I've noticed that if you explode a Lemming next to a steel wall with soft ground underneath it will put a whole in the ground and the steel.  Is this how it's supposed to work?

Well, it's how it works in DOS and Amiga etc. Lemmings, but just like the permanent shrugging lemming bug, not every single quirk needs to or should be emulated.  In the case of steel handling, it should be noted that by Lemmings 2, even the DOS/Amiga versions have improved to the behavior similar to what you currently have (minus the display issue), where steel is truly indestructible and any moves close to steel will only take out the non-steel terrain.  AFAIK no levels in Lemmings or ONML require the lazy steel handling behavior you observed.

[bombsite]

In the case of steel handling, it should be noted that by Lemmings 2, even the DOS/Amiga versions have improved to the behavior similar to what you currently have (minus the display issue)

Explosion holes are now displaying correctly.

Which brings up an obvious question that no one's asked yet: are you planning to add in the other 80 levels?

I believe a lot of these extra levels are actually based on the existing levels I've got, so it may be easier than I thought to add them.  I've got a spreadsheet which I found on these forums detailing the differences so I'll look into it.

[DragonsLover]

Do you mean after they had been bashing, they still continued for a bit?

Just look at the picture below and you'll see.

[bombsite]

That's some impressive bashing!!  I'll look into that and get it fixed.  I think the basher turned round because he'd reached the edge of the level.  What would usually happen in this case?  Should they just fall off?

[Clam]

In DOS Lemmings, they turn around at the left edge of the level, and fall off at the right. It makes more sense for them to just vanish off the map though. If you ever decide to add Oh No More Lemmings levels as well, there's one level where the left "wall" actually comes into play, but you can deal with that later if need be.

[ccexplore]

Keep in mind that Clam's "edges of level" and bombsite's "edges of level" are not quite the same thing.  For example based on how bombsite's scrolling works, he's thinking of the logical edges of level, beyond which there is nothing but blackness (and so in his version, it won't even let you scroll past those logical boundaries, which is, well, logical and sensible).  However, Clam's thinking is of the DOS version's concept of level boundaries, where the level area has a constant size (about 1580x160 in DOS) even if most levels don't make full use of the entire area, and edge effects only come into play at the edges of the full 1580-pixel width.

I'm personally open to all intepretations of edges and edge effects.  It is true though that since the DOS version's "edges" are typically far away from the level's main areas of activity, you typically can't make use of edge effects to your benefit.  Also, obviously turnaround edge effects are more advantageous to the player than edge effects that kill lemmings.  So if you have the edges of levels actually match the real extent of the level like bombsite does, but also implement turnaround edge effects, then you are potentially opening new ways of solving the levels that were never intended by the original level designers.  Thus there is some argument supporting Clam's suggestion to just kill off lemmings that have moved past the level edges.

[ccexplore]

Just look at the picture below and you'll see.

  I don't think I've ever been so entertained by a lemmings screenshot, especially with your funny comments! Thanks for making my day.