Issue with release order in Lemmix

[Fernito]

I always used custlemm, but I downloaded Lemmix today to watch some replays and I finally learned how to make my own.

Well, I was going to record the solution for one of my levels ("Bilateral lemmings"), but the release order changed! I mean, the level has 2 trapdoors. In custlemm each trapdoor released only one lemming at once, but now each door releases 2 consecutive lemmings, which makes the level impassable, because there's some finely timed actions.

What can I do?

[ccexplore]

You need to set the style to "Custom Lemmings" in Lemmix.  When you open your levelpak, right-click on the "Edit DOS Levelpak" popup window, and select "Change Viewer Style..." in the popup menu.  Select "Custom Lemmings" and click OK.  Now play your level again and hopefully the entrance order will be correct.

[FYI, the weird entrance order you see is particular to DOS original Lemmings, which is apparently the default style Lemmix uses for levelpaks.]

[Fernito]

Thanks for the tips, but it didn't work Any other ideas?

[ccexplore]

  I don't think you followed my steps correctly.  I just create a test level and the entrance order matches CustLemm when you set the style correctly.

Let's verify you did it right.  Press F11 in the Lemmix editor to bring up the "Level Properties" popup window, and tell me whether it says "Custom Lemmings" for Style.  If it doesn't, you can click on the "..." button next to it to change the style.

Also, you may need to re-record your solution, if you're playing back a replay that was recorded with the wrong style.

[Fernito]

Yes, I checked the set in the Level properties. I've tried several things, I even erased the trapdoors and added them again using the Cust Lemm set, but it won't work

I captured the screen and uploaded the video to YouTube so you can appreciate directly what I'm doing wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO0Mev8ota8

PS: For me the F11 key displayed the "Inspector", not the "Level properties", which pops up with F10 key. Maybe I'm not using the latest version or something? I downloaded Lemmix from here: http://ericenzwaan.nl/eric/lemmings/lemmix.htm

[ccexplore]

Ok, I see what's going on now.  I didn't realize you're actually using one of the LemmixPlayer programs to do recording and playback, I thought you were using the playtesting feature (F2) of the Lemmix editor.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, there's no way to configure LemmixPlayer so that you both get the correct graphics set and the CustLemm game mechanics.  (I should also note that saving the level after changing the style does nothing for the problem; the style is more like a configuration setting for Lemmix, and is not part of the level file.  You may have to set it again each time you open the level.)

You have two alternatives:

1) Use Lemmix Editor for recording your solution, using the procedure I mentioned to set the level's style correctly.  The disadvantage is that a few handy features like savestates and advance/reverse by seconds, are missing in the Editor's playtest feature.

2) Edit your level to explicitly enforce entrance ordering, by adding duplicate entrances so that there are a total of 4 entrance objects in the level.  With 4 entrances, the ordering will be identical in all styles (in ascending order of the entrances' indices).  In the case of 2 entrances, this means select the entrance the first lemming comes out from, copy and paste it (which will put a copy in the exact same position), then select the other entrance and copy/paste.  The disadvantage of course is that since a level can only have a maximum of 32 objects, the duplicate entrance objects reduce the effective number of objects you can have in the level , though for most levels that shouldn't be an issue.

I should note that even though #2 will solve your entrance ordering problem in LemmixPlayer, there are some minor but notable game mechanics differences between CustLemm and original Lemmings.  For example the maximum safe fall distance in CustLemm is 66 pixels rather than 63.  While unlikely to affect most levels/solutions, it does mean that in some cases, you may not be able to use LemmixPlayer to record a solution that would've worked in CustLemm.

Ultimately, what we really need is another LemmixPlayer that properly does CustLemm, just like the existing ones for Lemmings, ONML and Xmas.

PS: For me the F11 key displayed the "Inspector", not the "Level properties", which pops up with F10 key. Maybe I'm not using the latest version or something? I downloaded Lemmix from here: http://ericenzwaan.nl/eric/lemmings/lemmix.htm

No, you have the right version, it was just a typo.

[Fernito]

So that's what was going on!

Sincerely, I don't care too much about the recordings. The only thing that worries me is that when you people play it, the entrance order will be right? If so, I can rest in peace

BTW, what do you guys use to actually play the levels?

2) Edit your level to explicitly enforce entrance ordering, by adding duplicate entrances so that there are a total of 4 entrance objects in the level.  With 4 entrances, the ordering will be identical in all styles (in ascending order of the entrances' indices).  In the case of 2 entrances, this means select the entrance the first lemming comes out from, copy and paste it (which will put a copy in the exact same position), then select the other entrance and copy/paste.  The disadvantage of course is that since a level can only have a maximum of 32 objects, the duplicate entrance objects reduce the effective number of objects you can have in the level , though for most levels that shouldn't be an issue.

That's a very clever idea!

1) Use Lemmix Editor for recording your solution, using the procedure I mentioned to set the level's style correctly.  The disadvantage is that a few handy features like savestates and advance/reverse by seconds, are missing in the Editor's playtest feature.

I'm wondering, how do I capture with the Lemmix editor playtest mode?

EDIT: Nevermind the last thing, I figured out how to record with Lemmix editor playtest mode. BUT, when I try to play it back with LemmixPlayer it says that there's a problem with mechanics (I guess this is the problem you mentioned on the second paragraph of your last post). So, the question now is: what can I use to playback the recordings of Cust Lemm set levels?

[Dullstar]

I have no idea...

[Clam]

This question comes up rather a lot. (And I always end up answering it. ) I think it's about time we wrote an FAQ for this sort of thing...

Sincerely, I don't care too much about the recordings. The only thing that worries me is that when you people play it, the entrance order will be right? If so, I can rest in peace

Dont forget, level with 3 entrances need to be fixed in a similar way.

BTW, what do you guys use to actually play the levels?

Personally, I use the editor for everything.

I figured out how to record with Lemmix editor playtest mode. BUT, when I try to play it back with LemmixPlayer it says that there's a problem with mechanics (I guess this is the problem you mentioned on the second paragraph of your last post). So, the question now is: what can I use to playback the recordings of Cust Lemm set levels?

If Custom Lemmings doesn't work in the Lemmix Player (which it doesn't apparently - I don't use it so I wouldn't know), then you'll have to open the replay in the editor playtest. Open the level (in Custom Lemmings mode), start the playtest and press R (capital R). Then find the replay file and open it.

[Dullstar]

Most of us do use the editor for play testing, except where not possible.

[Fernito]

If Custom Lemmings doesn't work in the Lemmix Player (which it doesn't apparently - I don't use it so I wouldn't know), then you'll have to open the replay in the editor playtest. Open the level (in Custom Lemmings mode), start the playtest and press R (capital R). Then find the replay file and open it.

Yep, it worked! So, now, whenever I upload a levelpack it'd be better to specify whether the levels were made with Cust Lemm or Original Lemmings mechanics, so people know how to open them in Lemmix editor?

BTW, read that you mentioned that 3 trapdoors levels must be fixed too, but before having this problem I recorded a replay for "Multitasking lemmings" (the last level of the pack). It has 3 entrances and I didn't notice an alteration on the entrance order.

EDIT: Damn, now something very weird happened. The level with 3 entrances I mentioned in the last paragraph... when I set Custlemm as the game style in Lemmix editor and playtest it, the entrance order gets altered! How in earth is that possible? I made it using custlemm!

Most of us do use the editor for play testing, except where not possible.

In what cases wouldn't it be possible?

Thanks to everyone for answering my persistent questions