I decided to play through the levels in this thread, and record my blind playthorughs and upload to Youtube.
Here is the playlist the videos will be added to:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjmQA_pi2AYRAKorO_FMlzkuHJIMzMRSY
I started off by playing all 3 of Simon's levels.
16:9 is a Dumb Ratio - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGHMbhQvX9U
Immediately Give Up - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOH8y8xTxcw
Not so Glued to the Goal - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E2VVZeaGRs
Here are my comments:
The trampolines are hilarious but the level itself is very straightforward, except the tunnel to rop up is really thin so it requires a bunch of precision. Level takes longer to execute than it needs to. A fun idea.
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This level was awesome. I'm aware that final glue is a minor backroute but the level itself was good fun and fun to solve.
And now some comments on the next batch I played.
Cascade II by Dullstar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtnkEIn2mAM
Always The Long Route by GuyPerfect - https://youtu.be/L45Qp4Ye568
The Clam Spammer by GuyPerfect - https://youtu.be/QGEC_oWwuEg
Spelunk 'n' Dunk by GuyPerfect - https://youtu.be/9Sl9A5NxJow
Short and simple but slightly disappointed that it doesn't try to look more like the original level, but the big empty space at least means the most direct route of roping straight from the top of the steps does not work as nothing to attach to when you turn around.
A great level, a lot going on for a one-screener! Not sure what the Basher was for. A backroute? If I hadn't been spending the best part of this year on my own set I think I'd have found this a lot harder and not picked up on some key things as quickly, but it's always good to see the rock climber, shimmier and slider triple-whammy.
I think I must have backrouted this because I have an enormous number of skills left over. Huge chunks of the level and my skills went unused. I just the most direct route, which is pretty easy if you give this many builders and ropers. The crowd control at the start forced my hand to let off an early ballooner and when wondering what I could use him for it all just went on from there. The decoration is good here, I love the clam on the cloud near the exit :D
A really cool opening. This was a good level but again a huge number of builders, there doesn't even seem to be enough time on the clock to use them all in practice, but I can't complain as it was useful for crowd control. Perhaps the release rate could have been tweaked to not make the final crowd-freeing flame thrower be such a lucky shot. This level proves that builder+glue is a powerful combo, building a huge bridge very quickly. The video is a bit embarrassing as the sun was shining through the window so I did not see the trap or the fact that there was no plant stalk on the edge of the screen and so walked off the screen multiple times like a huge idiot.
I started playing geoo's levels.
De-Tailed Design - There are two videos, a 45 minute epic that results in a backroute around 43:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVBDLTKvTAE and a second, short much more simplified backroute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCOoVrj1vEA
Friendly Fire - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d2NIYACxCQ
Breeze into the Light - Ended up unsolved but I think I had the correct idea, just couldn't execute it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvCDIx8mE1w
This level is very hard, but I think I got very close to a legitimate solution. It seems clear to me that sending two lemmings over to the trampoline to place a spear, and then gluing on or around the spear is the correct idea, but I could not get it to work. At one point it seemed right but the glue was too long and everyone walked off the screen, which was a huge shame. If this is the right sort of idea then the level is great, I just need to figure out the wrinkle in my plans at some point. The backroutes I found will need some serious reworking to fix. Given it is version 8 perhaps the level has simply grown too complex and some sort of simplification of the core idea might be in order, I had to do that a few times when working on QFK2.
I love the idea, partially because as you know I came up with a similar one independently, and with the same name too! The level is a fun blast with a bit of a fun twist at the end where you have to simultaneously blast two lemmings, I just wish the final execution could be slightly easier, like putting the central exit in a bit of a pit so slight inaccuracies don't cause problems like what happened in my playthrough.
Either I am missing something fundamental or I have the right idea but the specific execution is nasty. I really really love the way you managed to set up the terrain to have the throwers work in the way they do, that's incredible. But there has to be a better way to execute what you have to do here instead of a multi-lemming bomb fling, assuming that is right. And I feel it must be given all of the other skills were accounted for. I like that one makes a cool use of the diver, while the platformer + gluer is neat. Flinging one lemming to the right place and turning the last lemming seems cool too, but it would be nice if there were one more skill like a balloon, or a skier to speed up one lemming to just get that last guy to the right place and not have to worry about what appears to be some extreme execution. I absolutely love the level concept.
Thanks for playing and commenting on the levels.
I remember the key idea to this level, but not all the details. But I think the main idea was somehow hard to enforce, or maybe it was just the specific setup that was too complicated. I'll have to look at it again, but you're probably right in that it needs a major redesign in order to work. Not going to happen too soon unfortunately.
My memory is a bit fuzzy, but iirc I got this working very consistently by firing from a bit further back, and flinging them towards the outer exits? But lowering the middle exit sounds like a good idea.
I didn't remember the solution offhand, but I looked it up and it turns out you're actually missing a crucial trick here. I just tried and the execution is pretty reliable and simple. I think you'll like it if you find it, too bad you got trapped in a somewhat promising looking (probable) dead-end.
More geoo levels!
Untitled (cave.dat) - https://youtu.be/pJ4z33PO76g
Compression Convergence - Another 2 video-er, initial solving attempts: https://youtu.be/pDoiNf-5naQ and after working out a solution off-screen, 10 minutes of trying and failing to get that solution to work again: https://youtu.be/3WNoESiVFAU
Decomposition - https://youtu.be/x-0bKfxe8RI
It looks like you're supposed to break the fall of the bottom crowd but this simple solution that is probably a backroute is much easier. This is what happens when you give stackers and all the ground isn't perfectly flat. For all I know this solution could actually be right.
This was a great level, hard but fun to work out and a really cool idea, but the solution is extremely finicky to pull off to get everyone compressed enough. A second kayak would really help here, I don't see it adding a backroute and it would be super useful to reduce the level of precision and timing needed. The first time I experienced the flinging plant was quite the hilarious shock, so much for thinking things were going to be easy! :p
Oh good grief the L2 assignment rage here is atrocious. The solution seems straight-forward but I'm not going to spend any more time trying to pull this nonsense off. Yuck!
Thanks for the videos and comments.
I think when I uploaded the folder back then I just scraped together everything I had. Turns out, this level actually has a couple of versions and even a proper name! You'll find it as Give and Take in the archive, hopefully with less backroutes?
I'm glad you enjoyed at least figuring the solution. I don't remember if I had a reliable setup for it, but I agree that it'd probably be better with two kayakers, as then there's a nice and reliable setup that's easy to spot once you've worked out the solution. (And regarding backroutes, the two groups initially coming down are too spread out to go through the plant with only one lemming being flung I hope?) I think you can consider this one solved. :)
Seems like this was the last level I released, and it didn't get any playtesting. I don't remember it too well,
but what you're doing looks very sensible. Somehow I thought there was some other twist to it though? Either way, I do remember it being execution heavy, and it doesn't seem to exciting in hindsight. Should be possible to design something much easier to pull of featuring the main idea.
I think overall my best levels are probably Recycling Plant (make sure both fling plants work; I think outdoorlev.dat is
a prototype of it you can skip), Breeze into the Light and (with somewhat trickier execution) Sands of Time.
So I've decided that commentary-less videos of my first attempts are not all that interesting, however I've committed myself to at least recording the remainder of geoo's levels. There aren't that many left. After that I will only record one if someone explicitly wants me to. I figure nobody really wants to watch 25 minutes of useless floundering in silence. I'd do commentary but currently have no way of doing so.
Here's the next batch of levels:
The Diver Level - https://youtu.be/oz-sPwL72yo then eventually I looked up the intended solution to see if I was right, turns out I wasn't, anyway here's the intended solution: https://youtu.be/sqTN-j4HVew
Fierljeppen! - A nice straightforward one-screener, but I couldn't quite figure it out: https://youtu.be/AgpJt4ugyg0 In the end I looked up the solution, and wish I hadn't because it's cool and smart and I think eventually I'd have worked it out myself. https://youtu.be/Ortm9skh9Pg
Give-And-Take - Could not solve: https://youtu.be/7MLp2qfYoPI Eventually I looked up the solution but then couldn't actually pull it off, so no video for you.
For a test level, I actually really like this one. At first I was going to suggest you should move the sphinx a bit closer so it's easier to attach to it if you blast a lemming into the middle area, but after seeing the intended solution, it would be better if you moved it further away so you can't, that might make it easier to work out. Or maybe, because it's just a glitch demonstration level, none of this matters really. Anyway cool glitches.
Oh man, a great one-screener! Wish I hadn't peeked at the solution now, not too hard to figure out, I was just dumb. It's cool how every skill feels like it's obvious where everything has to go but the most obvious just isn't quite right.
Interesting that it uses so few skills, and after peeking at the solution that's pretty interesting and smart, but I feel like this level really needs some easier way to pull off the relevant parts, the level comes across as pretty finicky because everything you want to try feels like you're trying to find an exploit. I could not pull off the intended solution as one lemming always got ahead and splatted slightly too early, I just need time to place about 2 more bricks but I can't get there in time or stop the extra early lemming.
Apparently I only included a single screenshot in my posted solution (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=990.msg33068#msg33068), and it's been ages so I can only reconstruct the solution based on that (and certainly don't remember how easy or hard it is to execute). Based on the screenshot, it looks like I probably have the first lemming from right entrance start stacking, and let only the second lemming from right entrance get past that stacker to go build. (It's also possible maybe the first one builds and the second one stacks, which may require picking the precise right spot to start stacking so no one overtakes that stacker.) Once the right-entrance crowd starts getting flinged to the exit platform, looks like I have one lemming start stacking to make the fall off the builder bridge non-fatal, and also quickly have another lemming club-bash to both get through the mushroom as well as make a gap at the bottom with the second stack.
It seems clearly important to get the stacker at the top to start stacking as far right as possible, to produce the largest amount of walking (as delay) for the left-entrance crowd, as well as the smallest amount of walking for the right crowd (so they can reach and start the other stacking as soon as possible). The timing and positioning of the builder and second stacker seems basically fixed. So actually I kind of feel like there shouldn't be that many things to try and fail on once you have the solution idea. Maybe the placements required for the skills are a little too pixel-precise? I can see that maybe having to line up the builder with the second stacker by eye is not ideal.
[edit: thinking on it more, maybe the extra early lemming you're having problems with is actually the first stacker? If a separate lemming builds, I wonder if the first stacker may be proned to overtaking the builder once he finishes stacking, given that I think stacker finishes faster than builder?
If that's the problem, I think you need to ensure the first lemming from right entrance does the building. Or maybe even that he both stacks and then builds. Either way would require the stacker to pick the right starting location (assume there's one) so no one will overtake him. I'll grant you that if this is necessary, it's a little inelegant. Then again, given the minimum skillset, it should be a logical tweak to try for getting the solution to work.]
It's time for the final set of geoo's levels! For future levels I may not record my early attempts, but I just noticed there are only 3 levels from Clam and I know people are interested in one of those so I may just record my first attempts at those too. Will see how it goes. If the videos are uninteresting I just won't upload them.
Recycling Plant - Unfortunately Youtube doesn't seem to want to process this video after multiple tries, so I'm afraid I have no video here, sorry! You didn't miss much.
Sands of Time - Unsolved: https://youtu.be/va9M-Rh3IpU
Ticking Bomb (part 1) - Hey look, I actually solved a geoo level in the first take! https://youtu.be/RpoWtjrNTIE
Ticking Bomb (part 2) - Initial attempts where I actually get quite close: https://youtu.be/SjeTHxTWC0w and about 10 minutes later, I finally figured it out: https://youtu.be/ULjgkltT-z4
Man there is so much for me to still try and unpack here. It seems I need to get the crowd onto the second plant to fling over to the exit, but before I can work out how that is supposed to work, I first need to get the two crowds to not overlap each other so that each lemming can fling on this plant. I have yet to figure out how to do that. I can easily use a spear to get the top crowd to walk along the top path, but the two crowds still merge. After that, I need to figure out how to stop the lemmings flinging into the water, trying to spear over it seems to do nothing and the lemmings land in the water anyway, and I also need to figure out if I want to throw rocks so they land on the plant facing the right way, or somehow get them over and drop onto it form the right-hand platform, but then they are facing away from the exit. So lots to figure out here and little progress was made in the first 20 minutes.
Another small level with few skills where nothing works. The fact that a group of lemmings start at the top implies to me that I need to sand pour from the top and split the sand across more than one place. Most apparent solution feels like using a bit of sand at the top to raise the height for the platformer to get to the exit, then using a rope to run the sand down to the left to get people out at the bottom, using the flame thrower to join the crowds at the bottom. But this needs something to attach the rope too, which implies building the platform and somehow pouring the sand through it and the same time. I don't get it. Very tough level.
So I figured out the main idea straight away. A good use of crawling, well done :thumbsup: I should have gotten the exact sequence of events right a lot sooner than I did. This is a pretty creative level, very unique, I like it! I can't help but feel there is something a bit off about the auto-filler and when it pours, I swear there's some inconsistency in when the crowd gets freed.
If I'd have kept recording a little bit longer this could have all been in one video, but oh well. Again, with having to get the crowd to go up and with the skills available I was immediately drawn to mining through the big block, just getting the specifics to pull it off ended up being the issue. But again it's something I really should have figured out a lot sooner, it was keeping the miner going and jumping to cancel after creating a wall that got me stumped for a while here. Another great level. I like that the tree just so happens to work out as a one-way obstacle for the rock climber, that's pretty cute. The auto-filler feels unnecessary here, but you get bonus points for having two levels with identical landscape so it doesn't matter.
Zooming through Clam's 3 levels in a Flash, each solved on the initial video, although the execution-heavy "What a Twist!" lost one lemming right at the end and I wasn't going to spend more time trying to fix that.
Wall Crawler - https://youtu.be/mxWu5yeNg_E
Throw the Switch - https://youtu.be/HffeykQ1ATw
What a Twist! - https://youtu.be/VZltpaLENqY
It looks like crawling is not intended but forget it, I'm going to do it anyway. There's a much less roper-intensive route by climbing up one of the pillars at the start using a bunch of Bombers but so many ropers are given that it wasn't needed. Going through the ground using bombers near the exit seems like it is intended but it's so easy to trigger a crawl when you have so many ropers, and the name seems to imply using crawling tircks so I don't know if crawling is intended here or not. I think this is a bit tedious and would be better if it was a bit more refined and was roper-only, as making the complex web of ropes near the start like I did in my solution was pretty cool.
Seems large and imposing at first but in reality is pretty simple, and a lot of fun too! A great level! I noticed the blue hook decorations signified where the rock throwers needed to go, not necessary but a nice touch. I think this level is well designed.
Wow, very creative level :thumbsup: It's not every day you see something so complex arise from only having a single skill to use! The problem with the exit getting filled was a nice spanner in the works too. The execution is a bit of a pain but it's the Twister so of course it's a pain. There could be some tweaks to make the execution easier, mostly the steel under the trapdoor could be thinner to give more room for the twister as it has to cross that area multiple times. Very smart, and the only good use of the twister ever.
Thanks for playing more of my levels. :)
Comments in spoiler tags again.
btw, tell me if and to what extent you'd like to get hints when you're stuck. I'll try not to give anything away unless requested.
Yeah, probably sensible to move the sphinx away a bit. Basically I wanted to show off the different kind of things you can do with the diver. It's a glitch level, but given that I guess it does what it was intended to do. Glad you kinda like it :)
I think this was one of my first levels. It's really just one main idea, but I guess it's not obvious at first. Btw,
you can make execution more reliable by bombing the last one walking into the cluster right before it ends up in the cluster. That way you're sure no-one else is in the same spot as the bomber.
I just tried it an execution seems needlessly tight. Basically, if the lemmings land on the second-highest brick of the stack that's already sufficient, and then with good placement of the first stacker things barely work out. Not sure if it's for backroute prevention, but I feel like it could easily be made a little easier to execute.
For Recycling Plant, as discussed in IRC, I suggest using V3. I can't guarantee that V3B and Vf work. Either way, the main idea you're in the process of working out applies to all versions.
There are no glitches or anything involved here. You sort of have the right idea what to do at the start, but not quite yet. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to do to activate the second plant, when I designed the level I thought it was obvious what's intended here, but apparently not quite. I hope you'll give it a few more tries working out the tricks. In the end there are quite a few assignments, but none of them are super precise, so once you got the placements down execution should be fine within a few tries.
Again, you got some main ideas right here and some bits missing. I think the solution is very cool but at the same time a royal pain to execute. The level is small and everything happens fast, but there are still a lot of precise moves, unfortunately.
Actually, the design is a tiny bit different in the position of the auto-filler. True that for the second level idea it's not strictly needed, but that one spawned off the first one, and the auto-filler makes the premise of the ticking bomb by releasing the crowd. I also remember the autofiller being somewhat inconsistent, sometimes having short breaks, maybe somehow related to memory usage...
I didn't remember these two levels as particularly good, but looking at them again they are actually quite decent. I'm glad you liked them. And yes, it was a little painful seeing you struggle so long in part 2 not seeing how to prevent the crowd from going into the water. :P
Oh and I hope you're not going to skip over ccexplore's levels. Given, they are really hard for most part, but there are quite a few masterpieces among them. I just replayed Not A Lot to Go On (LEVEL110(2)) which iirc was one of the first levels, and the solution is as amazing as I remember it and execution is actually quite friendly.