Mike! I want to ask you...

[guest]

Oh yeah, and let's get back to what everyone's actually interested in:  

As I've said, I've fixed the falling distance in CustLemm so it behaves the same as Lemmings.  The hacked EXE is now called CUSTLEM2.EXE.  To make it identifiable, I also changed a few text so that it would say something like "CustLemm v1.1", most notably in the first two text-based menus where you select VGA/EGA and machine type, and also in the scrolling credits on the game's main menu screen.

I've verified that it runs fine, but I didn't bother to check whether the falling distance really has changed as a result (or that it changed the right way).  It should, but I'm hoping one of you out there would do your part and test that out for me.

CustLem2 can be downloaded here:

http://www.geocities.com/lemmings/custlem2.zip

Notice it's only one m and not two m's, so it's CustLem2 not CustLemm2.  I did this so the filename fits in 8 characters as DOS requires.

[guest]

Oops, THE URL I GAVE ABOVE IS WRONG.

Here's the correct URL:

http://www.geocities.com/guestlevels/lemmings/custlem2.zip

[Conway]

Cool, but why do we need another version of Custlem?

[guest]

Looks like you missed most of the discussion here.   ;)Read page 9 of this thread.

[Conway]

Is it just to fix the fall limit?

[Spectrum]

guest, could you also "fix" the CD version- Original Lemmings?
You can grab it from:

http://membres.lycos.fr/createmania/download/Lemmdos.zip

Thanks!

[guest]

Is it just to fix the fall limit?

Yes.  Well, it was Shvegait's suggestion:

I think we should, if it wouldn't be too much of a problem for you to do. Besides, if a level is broken because of it, you can always play on the old CustLemm. Of course, you might not know if a level is broken because of it if it becomes impossible... Either way, it would be nice to at least have the option of playing with the correct safe-fall distance.

[Conway]

The problem is that most fan levels are designed for Custlemm. If there are two versions, each new levelpack made will have to come with a note saying which version it was designed for. Having two versions, and therefore potentially two different types of levels, will only complicate things - not much, but it will complicate things.

[Shvegait]

I agree Conway. However, even one of your levels is BROKEN by the old CustLemm (The "We all fall down" modification.) It would be nice to play it for real without having to edit the level and shift the height up three pixels.

It is logical that any level that is a modification of any original Lemmings (and possibly ONML) level should have the correct max safe fall distance (where applicable). So this is just to have the option! Thanks guest!

Edit: I tested both "We all fall down" and "Steel Works", and they work properly


I think for new levels we should still probably use CustLemm as the standard for the reasons Conway stated.

[guest]

Ok, after some thought, here's my current, totally speculative theory on the "falling distance saga":

It could be the case that, the ONML we download from abandonia.com is actually a hacked copy of the demo version of ONML.  (Does that exist?)

Since the demo version of ONML does not have copy protection (I think), it would make for a perfect candidate to convert to a full version of ONML that lacks copy protection.  I seem to remember hearing similar things having been done with the original Lemmings (ie. make the demo version of Lemmings run the full version's levels.)

Other possibilities include hacked copy of Xmas Lemmings, which I believe are also copy-protection free.  The Xmas-sy graphics are probably stored in the .dat files rather than the program itself, so as long as you switch to the ONML .dat files you'll get the regular non-Xmas-sy graphics.

This would then explain the discrepency with the falling distance as reported by Mike and Shvegait.  Since Mike said the change in falling distance occurs as a fudge to fix one of the ONML levels, it would probably occur late in the development cycle of the game, well after the ONML demo was released.  And so the official, full version of ONML would have a higher falling distance than the demo version.

Anyway, that's just my current theory.  The key evidence we need would be an official, from-the-floppy, unhacked, full version of ONML, if anybody has one.  And test out what its falling distance is.

As for why the CD version of Lemmings 1 has a higher falling distance, as well as the Windows version.  Well I'm not really sure at this point, but one strong possibility is that if they were made and released after DMA made the falling distance change in the source code during ONML development, then they too would get the higher falling distance, if nobody remembers (or deliberately decided against) to undo the change first.  It could even explain why the CD version supposedly handles the music playing correctly.  [Note:  I haven't downloaded the CD version yet, I'll do it later tonight.]

CustLemm would then probably have come from either the CD version of DOS Lemmings, or the official full version of ONML.

---------------------------

It still strike me as a bit incredible that DMA would choose to change something so fundamental as the falling distance (which, after all, potentially affects every other level) in order to fix a problem with a single level, instead of changing that level itself to accomodate.

[Shvegait]

The question I ask now is... WHAT LEVEL?

I managed to pass all ONML levels (save Havoc 20... I will get to that at some point!) with the max safe fall distance of 63, and I'm sure many others have, as well. It would be a great irony if the level they needed to be fixed has a glaring backroute that doesn't require a higher max safe fall distance, and I wouldn't be surprised either...

I also can't believe they would make this change across the board to all levels to fix a problem in one level... ONE LEVEL! They could have even removed the level and replaced it with another, I'm sure.

[Proxima]

Possibly 3 Crazy, because they forgot that you can lower the fall still further by having the bomber explode just after he walks off the edge?

[Shvegait]

But could they not just moving the pieces for that level? It seems to me like they would have to have a REALLY good reason not to be able to alter a level for them to go through with this change. (I also believe it would have to be a difficult level... It seems otherwise they would just replace the level.)

[guest]

guest, could you also "fix" the CD version- Original Lemmings?

Ok, I downloaded and examined the EXE.

Unfortunately, it appears that the EXE is compressed, but not compressed with pklite as is the case for most of the "official" demo and full versions of the game.  (Definitely raises some issues about the legitimacy of this copy of the game, I must say...)  Until I figure out what compression was used and how to decompress it, I won't be able to patch it.  So patience.

[guest]

A quick (but uneventful) update:  upon further examination, I'm less sure about the assertion that the CD version of lemmings is not compressed with pklite.  The startup code that does the self-decompression looks to be somewhat similar (but not identical) to the corresponding stuff in the compressed EXEs of the official lemmings etc.  Of course, I have no time or interest to examine the full decompression code, so this might just be a superficial appearance.

But the fact remains that the "unpklite" program I downloaded to decompress the EXEs does not work with the CD version of lemmings, it claims that the EXE does not appear to be compressed with pklite.  It's also the case that I failed to find anything in the EXE that indicates what sort of compression was used (unlike the more common varieties of lemmings EXEs, which says clearly in the EXE that they use pklite).

So at the moment, I don't think there's much I would be able to do about that EXE.  Sorry.