Lemmings Forums

Lemmings Boards => Contests => Topic started by: namida on March 26, 2016, 04:43:05 PM

Title: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: namida on March 26, 2016, 04:43:05 PM
This topic is for discussion, posting replays, etc. If you're an entrant and you want to update any of your levels, please post in the updates topic (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2616.0). The ZIP attached to this post will be updated periodically, but until the update phase has closed, you should also keep an eye on that topic if you want to be sure you have the latest versions.

So, we all know how this works by now. Here's your levels, play them, upload replays, creators have a chance to fix any backroutes that arise, etc.

Two ZIPs here. One has the levels; the other has some custom musics for a few levels. A couple are variations on regular musics, but use non-standard names ("beast2" and "menacing", where the standard names are "beastii" and "menace"). Place these in a "music" subfolder of your NeoLemmix folder.

Rule 1 Entries (Create a level using only new skills in NeoLemmix or Lix)
Flopsy86's "Tell me the way to DMA..." (NeoLemmix)
IchoTolot's "A Silent Scream" (NeoLemmix)
mobius's "Terminal Velocity" (NeoLemmix)
Nepster's "All the Nines" (NeoLemmix)
Rubix's "Waiting For The Answer" (Lix)

Rule 2 Entries (Create a level with only one lemming / lix)
Colorful Arty's "The Tale of Sir Lemalot" (SuperLemmini*)
IchoTolot's "Lonely Drowning In Blood" (NeoLemmix)

Rule 3 Entries (Create a level with exactly two types of skills)
Apjjm's "Thrown Out With The Bathwater" (NeoLemmix)
Colorful Arty's "Freeze, ya Lemmings!" (SuperLemmini*)
Gronkling's "Zig-Zag Catacomb" (NeoLemmix)
IchoTolot's "Welcome To The Spider Dance!" (NeoLemmix)
mobius's "The Copenhagen Interpretation" (NeoLemmix)
Nepster's "Assault on the Helicopter" (NeoLemmix)

* Colorful Arty has mentioned that although designed for SuperLemmini, his levels should work fine on Lemmini too.

I'll assume that by now everyone knows how to play these levels, but if not, just ask.
Do note that many of the NeoLemmix levels use custom graphic sets. All used graphic sets are among the ones that can be auto-downloaded as needed, so the easiest way to get them is to simply turn "Enable Online Functionality" on in NeoLemmix. If however you don't feel comfortable with this, or play on a PC that doesn't have an internet connection, you'll need:
- Several of IchoTolot's converted L2 / L3 styles (http://www.neolemmix.com/old/stylepacks/L2L3Pack.zip)
- Gronkling's "BeastII" and "Menace" styles (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2457.0)
Place these in a "styles" subfolder of your main NeoLemmix folder (or if you go through the editor, place them in the "styles/NeoLemmix" folder).

The update phase will be open until 16th April (subject to the usual extension rule), and the playing phase will close 4 days after the update phase ends.

ZIP last updated: 27th March, 3:14 PM.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 26, 2016, 06:45:26 PM
All finished.
As I played this on my laptop, ubuntu put the replays together automatically in a .tar.gz file. I dont know if windows can easily open this. Tell me if you have problems as I try to reattach them in a zip or rar file in this case.
Reattached it as a zip.

Colorful Arty
The Tale of Sir Lemalot:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Freeze, ya Lemmings!:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Flopsy86
Tell me the way to DMA...:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Möbius
Terminal Velocity:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Copenhagen Interpretation:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nepster
All the Nines:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Assault on the Helicopter:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rubix
Waiting For The Answer:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Apjjm
Thrown Out With The Bathwater:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gronkling
Zig-Zag Catacomb:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 26, 2016, 07:43:48 PM
Replay to V2 of Apjjm's level attached.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: RubiX on March 26, 2016, 07:57:58 PM
Nice speed solving all these, im gonna play a couple each day.

Yea looks like your solve for : Tell me the way to DMA was a backroute also.  I used all skills to complete it.     
Enjoyed what I have played today.

Replay attached for what I believe was his intended solution.



As for your solve on my lix level, very smart, and completely unintended, though it was good to see it took all the skills also.
Can anyone find the intended solution though.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Proxima on March 26, 2016, 08:08:22 PM
Only Smarties have the answer.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: RubiX on March 26, 2016, 08:19:52 PM
Another nice idea, and still nothing like the intended Prox   
Backroutes, plauging us all since the beginning of time.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Apjjm on March 26, 2016, 08:24:49 PM
Nepster - All The Nines
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

IchoTolot - Lonely Drowning In Blood
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Flopsy - Tell me the way to DMA
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mobius - Terminal Velocity
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mobius - The Copenhagen Interpretation
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gronkling - Zig-Zag Catacomb
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: Forgot attachment :P
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Proxima on March 26, 2016, 08:35:19 PM
Solution to Flopsy's level

(Added solution to V2)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 26, 2016, 08:57:54 PM
Solution to V2 of Flopsy's level attached. :)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Gronkling on March 26, 2016, 09:23:18 PM
My solutions to all the NX levels, I'll try the updates tomorrow and fix backroute(s) on my level, and may do the non-NX levels at some point.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 26, 2016, 09:24:56 PM
V3 of Apjjm's level attached :)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Apjjm on March 26, 2016, 09:28:05 PM
Replay for flopsy's level (Version 2) attached.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Flopsy on March 26, 2016, 09:31:30 PM
Solutions to 3 levels. I did do V1 of Apjjm's level but that's obsolete now.

IchoTolot's Lonely Drowning in Blood
mobius's The Copenhagen Intervention
Gronkling's Zig Zag Catacomb.

Will have a proper look at other levels over the next few days.

Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Proxima on March 26, 2016, 09:53:42 PM
Solution to Gronkling's V3.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Minim on March 26, 2016, 10:13:36 PM
Solution to Gronkling's V4. (Wow... never thought a backrouted level would be that easy to solve, let alone from a user who's not usually involved in LDC levels)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Proxima on March 26, 2016, 10:24:58 PM
And here's my V4 solution.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Gronkling on March 26, 2016, 10:34:44 PM
My solutions to updated levels apart from spider-dance which I don't feel like replaying yet. Old solution to Flopsy's level still works.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Apjjm on March 26, 2016, 10:36:28 PM
Solution for IchoTolot's "A Silent Scream"
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 26, 2016, 10:49:27 PM
V3 of my R1 level is out, now Gronklings waterfall tricks should be impossible ;)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Gronkling on March 26, 2016, 11:05:08 PM
and a new solution!
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 26, 2016, 11:22:59 PM
and a new solution!
and another fix with   -1 walker+platformer    :devil:
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 26, 2016, 11:35:03 PM
Found another one on my own .... away with the branch of backroutes!
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Gronkling on March 26, 2016, 11:54:27 PM
and another solution! this one feels more intended though
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Proxima on March 27, 2016, 12:14:33 AM
V6 solution
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: mobius on March 27, 2016, 12:43:10 AM
I've played about half of the levels so far; very good everything I've seen so far and some nice challenges.

On Out with the Bathwater:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On Icho's Spider level:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

-------
On my levels:
I've updated Copenhagen Int, Icho backrouted but Apjjm found the intended solution! :thumbsup: My solution doesn't run quite so tight on the time limit
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I haven't updated Terminal Velocity yet; not sure how I'm going to fix it. I sort of intended this to be a fun level but not as simple as these solutions so I'll try to come up with a good fix.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 27, 2016, 11:32:48 AM
Updated my initial post with  updated replays :)

Rubix R1 V2, möbius R3 V2, Apjjm R3 V4
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Gronkling on March 27, 2016, 01:32:53 PM
New solution to Spider dance! :D
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 27, 2016, 04:20:12 PM
New solution to Spider dance! :D

Intended! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 27, 2016, 04:25:32 PM
Rubix V3 attached ;)

Not much differences here, my way is even easier to execute now.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: RubiX on March 27, 2016, 05:45:56 PM
lol, if this new fix doesn't stop your trick, then I really need to totally rethink part of the map.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 27, 2016, 06:08:23 PM
lol, if this new fix doesn't stop your trick, then I really need to totally rethink part of the map.

I think you need to start rethinking :P
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: RubiX on March 27, 2016, 06:44:41 PM
lol yep.  I'll have a good rethink to stop this
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: mobius on March 27, 2016, 11:22:29 PM
a solution for Flopsy's update.

Icho found the intended solution to V2 Copenhagen :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Flopsy on March 28, 2016, 12:37:52 AM
solved mobius's updated Copenhagen level

I do prefer my updated solution to it, a lot better :thumbsup:

EDIT: Terminal Velocity solution added, found a short cut there I think.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: mobius on March 28, 2016, 12:58:20 AM
ooh- that wasn't exactly the intended solution but I don't think I'll make any updates for that. Not sure how I would right now anyway.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Colorful Arty on March 28, 2016, 03:48:52 AM
Just watched IchoTolot's replays of my levels. Flawlessly done. :thumbsup:

I also realized that I was using SuperLemmini version 0.98, so I had to download the latest version to watch them.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on March 28, 2016, 10:49:43 AM
Rubix V5 attached

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: RubiX on March 28, 2016, 03:01:22 PM
Thanks.    Congrats on solving it intended!
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Nepster on March 28, 2016, 10:27:42 PM
All levels solved. Here some comments as usual.

Apjjm
Thrown Out With The Bathwater:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Colorful Arty
The Tale of Sir Lemalot:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Freeze, ya Lemmings!:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Flopsy86
Tell me the way to DMA...:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gronkling
Zig-Zag Catacomb:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

IchoTolot
A Silent Scream:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Lonely Drowning in Blood:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Welcome to the Spider Dance:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Möbius
Terminal Velocity:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Copenhagen Interpretation:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rubix
Waiting For The Answer:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: RubiX on March 28, 2016, 11:21:52 PM
It appears you have done this on an older version of lix which may have made an issue with timing, not sure, was unable to view it with the most recent Lix version.

Anyway, for people fighting with the solution. 
The map name and the reference of 42 (Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy) is all to help understand the true solution.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on April 03, 2016, 03:23:31 PM
If Simon coes back from his trip, we will meet up again next week and I'll guide him through the contest levels aswell :)

Probably shortly before the deadline, I will upload my solution replays for my levels, so that you can see the intended way.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: namida on April 06, 2016, 02:47:19 AM
Here's my replays for Apjmm's Rule 3 level, Flopsy86's Rule 1 level, Gronkling's Rule 3 level (I very highly suspect it's a backroute).

I also recorded videos as I played through, which will be available here once it finishes uploading (EDIT: it's uploaded now): https://youtu.be/AUg1hjvZbcA (As well as the above three, it also contains attempts at IchoTolot's Rule 1 level.)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on April 07, 2016, 06:42:30 PM
A solution to Flopsy's level with 1 platformer to spare (found by Simon)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: namida on April 12, 2016, 12:00:53 PM
Solved all three of IchoTolot's levels!

Video: https://youtu.be/MKnHOzQicZ8
If you just wanna see the solutions, replays attached. :)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on April 12, 2016, 01:39:00 PM
All solution are intended! :)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I also noticed 2 or 3 minor terrain errors in R3 that don't really affect the level gameplay itself, so that I won't put another contest update out for them, but nevertheless I will fix them after the contest for the Community Pack :)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: namida on April 12, 2016, 02:05:24 PM
And, solved the remaining NeoLemmix levels! Just got the SuperLemmini and Lix ones to go now.

Video: https://youtu.be/_-uIvf2VX-M
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Nepster on April 12, 2016, 04:38:36 PM
Impressive solution to "Assault of the Helicopter" which abuses the slightly uneven ground. Here is the intended solution, which is way faster and uses far less skills.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: namida on April 12, 2016, 04:58:21 PM
Ah, nice!

Assault of the Helicopter (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: namida on April 13, 2016, 08:43:45 AM
I had a look at Rubix's Lix level, but I get the feeling that - outside of perhaps...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...it's going to rely on knowing Lix much better than I do in order to notice the solution.

Video: https://youtu.be/NgJXUFgxSAg



I also solved both of Colorful Arty's SuperLemmini levels. Both were alright, but nothing special, IMO. Replay is attached for the first level; I forgot to save it for the second one (but the video is there, at least).

Video: https://youtu.be/Ee4Gv-npGfw



A general tip I'd like to put out there for contest entrants (and just to clarify - this is a piece of advice from me, not a contest rule in any way!) - the contests probably aren't the best place to show off some obscure and annoying-to-execute trick. Based on past results, nor is it really the place for "how can I make a level as hard as possible". Both of these kind of levels have tended to do quite poorly in past contests; levels that are challenging but not too hard, not a pain in the ass to perform the solution to, and most of all, fun to play, are the ones that tend to do best. Of course there are exceptions - "Parking Garage" for example was probably the hardest level in the contest it was entered in, and not only did it win that contest, but also came 3rd in Level Of The Year 2015 - but in general, remember that the entire community are the judges, and this includes people who do not like fiddly execution, as well as people who are not great at solving overly difficult levels.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on April 13, 2016, 09:16:46 AM
I had a look at Rubix's Lix level, but I get the feeling that - outside of perhaps...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...it's going to rely on knowing Lix much better than I do in order to notice the solution.

Nuke stuff? What are you thinking?    Think more about the 42! 

Personally the solution came to me only by thinking about what I want to do and Rubix had told me what 42 was meant to tell you afterwards, but it makes 100% sense and is a great help if you think about it ;)
Again as I commented: The solution is 100% logical and no glitch stuff involved.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Simon on April 13, 2016, 09:39:34 AM
The lingering fear of nuke solutions points to a game design problem. Nuke should live outside the solution space. Singleplayer should prevent saving after nuke, and show that clearly.

Yeah, Rubix's level doesn't need the nuke.

-- Simon
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: namida on April 13, 2016, 10:22:57 AM
Solved it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-RbzlM-tI

In regards to nuke solutions: I don't think there's anything wrong with them in general. The reason I was worried about having to use a nuke solution here was not becuase of the use of the nuke in itself, but because of having to use it for the fling functionality of the exploders, which already tends to be messy enough without using it in the context of nuking.

In particular, I don't think in Lix's case, a different rule should exist between singleplayer and multiplayer for this.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Proxima on April 13, 2016, 02:52:38 PM
That gets into an old thorny debate. The problem is that in multiplayer, nuke can disrupt the level and stop it being a fair, fun contest between the remaining players. I know that at one point it was proposed to have the nuke kill all lix without destroying the terrain, but I don't know if the discussion about that ever got anywhere.

As for singleplayer, as well as the consistency argument, having to control a fling-nuke would be extremely fiddly and go completely against Lix's "concentrate on the puzzle, remove execution difficulty" philosophy. In earlier versions of Lix, the level designer could choose whether to have a normal or fling nuke, but I think that got removed, not sure why.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: namida on April 15, 2016, 04:10:43 AM
Just a reminder that, assuming no further updates, the update phase will close in just under 24 hours (if there are any more updates, it'll close when there haven't been any for 72 hours). So if your level needed updating again, now's your last chance to do so!

The voting will begin 4 days after the update phase closes.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: mobius on April 17, 2016, 01:10:30 AM
Finally got around to watching namida's solutions;

nice one on Copenhagen; a new solution but not a backroute. This was basically what I was originally going for but I couldn’t pull it off so I resorted to Icho and other’s solution. :thumbsup:

I won't be updating my levels any further.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: namida on April 17, 2016, 02:16:23 AM
Further updates are no longer allowed. Voting will open on April 20th.

Discussion / replay sharing is still allowed until voting opens.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: IchoTolot on April 17, 2016, 02:26:29 PM
Before the voting phase begins:  Attached are the intended solutions for my levels :)
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Flopsy on April 17, 2016, 02:40:57 PM
I've uploaded a video of my solution to my YT channel :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjq9VSW469o&feature=youtu.be

Also attached the replay file for those who want it.
Title: Re: Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
Post by: Gronkling on April 17, 2016, 03:04:18 PM
Guess I'll give the intended solution to my level
Replay file attatched to post, poorly edited youtube video here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEdcHdIeNXg&feature=youtu.be)