Lemmings Challenges

[ccexplore]

Most of the levels that seem similar have small differences. Here are all the game mechanical differences that I can think of now:
1) You can't change the RR instantly.
2) Pausing at the beginning doesn't change when the lemmings come out.
3) Both sides of the level act as walls.
4) A digger has two pixels on each side that don't support him.
5) There is no "right click to select only walkers" function.
6) The mayhem 12 glitch doesn't work.
7) OWWs are where they appear to be.
8) There can be up to 100 lemmings. (obviously only affects some levels)
9) A builder turns around when he hits his head on the top of the level, and I think it happens 1 or 2 pixels lower.

[colo=#000000]Hmm, good points, although that doesn't seem to affect the Fun and Tricky levels you listed.

#5 is interesting because the A button does seem to act kinda like the right mouse button (when holding down the A, the cursor will register the walker instead of the lemming with a skill), but nothing happens if you press the C button while the A button is held down.

I'm surprised about the Mayhem 12 glitch not working, I'll have to check that out myself, and especially Taxing 21 (or whatever the "Feel the Heat" level is at).

Isn't #3 true for the DOS version as well?  What happens with the right wall in the DOS version?

#1,2,4,7 and 8 also holds for the Amiga version.  I don't know anything about #9.[/color]

[ccexplore]

Most of the levels that seem similar have small differences. Here are all the game mechanical differences that I can think of now:
1) You can't change the RR instantly.
2) Pausing at the beginning doesn't change when the lemmings come out.
3) Both sides of the level act as walls.
4) A digger has two pixels on each side that don't support him.
5) There is no "right click to select only walkers" function.
6) The mayhem 12 glitch doesn't work.
7) OWWs are where they appear to be.
8) There can be up to 100 lemmings. (obviously only affects some levels)
9) A builder turns around when he hits his head on the top of the level, and I think it happens 1 or 2 pixels lower.

Hmm, good points, although that doesn't seem to affect the Fun and Tricky levels you listed.

#5 is interesting because the A button does seem to act kinda like the right mouse button (when holding down the A, the cursor will register the walker instead of the lemming with a skill), but nothing happens if you press the C button while the A button is held down.

I'm surprised about the Mayhem 12 glitch not working, I'll have to check that out myself, and especially Taxing 21 (or whatever the "Feel the Heat" level is at).

Isn't #3 true for the DOS version as well?  What happens with the right wall in the DOS version?

#1,2,4,7 and 8 also holds for the Amiga version.  I don't know anything about #9.

[ccexplore]

I'm surprised about the Mayhem 12 glitch not working

I verified that the Mayhem 12 glitch actually does work on the Genesis, but you can't use it in the way you'd like for Mayhem 12. &#A0;The culprit is actually difference #9, regarding how a builder bumps against the top of the level 1 or 2 pixels lower than the DOS version. &#A0;That happens to be just enough to prevent you from getting high enough to fool the game's inaccurate steel detection logic. &#A0;Whereas in a setup where you can apply the Mayhem 12 glitch without being up in the ceiling, it works exactly the same as the DOS version. &#A0;In fact, such a setup exists right at Mayhem 12, I'll post a screenshot.

[ccexplore]

I'll post a screenshot.

screenshot

[tseug]

So I guess #6 and #9 were the same. It's interesting that you mentioned the right wall for #3 because that is exactly what's different. If you build into it the lemming will simply go off the screen and fall when he's done building (you can see that in the mini map).

The complete list:

[EDITED]

Improved:
Tricky 23
Tricky 25
Present 2

100% on cascade was much easier than I expected, but maybe that's just because of savestates.

I've been trying for the last two hours too get 2/4 on Sunsoft 27, and I conclude that it's impossible. One of the traps is just one pixel too far to the left. [smiley=XD.gif]

[Proxima]

 An off-hand list of levels to look for improvements on; I don't have time to try these myself at the moment.
 
22 Tricky: 100%? (possible on other versions)
23 Tricky: lose 1? (possible on other versions)
13 Taxing: lose 1? (possible on the ONML version of the level)
16 Taxing: 100%? (possible on other versions)
26 Taxing: 100%? (possible on other versions)
27 Taxing: 100%? (I seem to remember this being doable)

[Deathman48]

#5 is interesting because the A button does seem to act kinda like the right mouse button (when holding down the A, the cursor will register the walker instead of the lemming with a skill), but nothing happens if you press the C button while the A button is held down.

Yeah, I discovered that a while ago myself, but not being able to select a Lemming using that was annoying, some levels could have been easier to execute if there was a way to select a walker Lemming. I think the game works on that in a crowd it will select whichever Lemming came out of the hatch first, but that isn't always helpful. I think tseug may have just been posting his own records on the levels by the way, but I'll comment on them.

"22 Tricky: 100%? (possible on other versions)"

I'm not sure that's possible, I can't find a way to delay the Lemmings long enough to complete the bridge at the end both ways. The RR of 88 is to high for me to do it, don't know about anyone else but 20 bridges seems too few to adequately delay enough Lemmings.

"23 Tricky: lose 1? (possible on other versions)"

That is possible here according to ccexplore though I've never tried the method myself.

"13 Taxing: lose 1? (possible on the ONML version of the level)"

How on Earth do you do that? =/

"16 Taxing: 100%? (possible on other versions)"

Yeah, that's possible here. I've not done it myself but I have seen a screenshot of the method used and I don't think any version differences interfere with the method.

"26 Taxing: 100%? (possible on other versions)"

That's possible I'm sure, I'm pretty sure I got all the Lemmings home when I first completed this level.

"27 Taxing: 100%? (I seem to remember this being doable)"

I can't get this one to work but with a few adjustments of about a pixel each it may be possible. When using a bridge at the end to make the fall survivable, I can't get it so that they survive the second fall. But it might work, never thought to try this method until I read your post there. ^^;

[Proxima]

On second thoughts, lose 1 on 13 Taxing is very likely impossible, since the Genesis version doesn't allow RR changes while paused.

Here's how it's done on Mac ONML: RR 80 right at the start, make the first lemming a bomber as soon as he emerges, return RR to 1. First lemming digs just before the pillar. Second lemming digs one pixel further on, releasing the first digger. Immediately make the second lemming block. Make the first lemming (who is now walking again) dig as soon as he returns to ground level after the dig pit -- then when he explodes he will release the blocker.

I think ccexplore found a slightly different solution on one of the other versions.

As for 22 Tricky, have you tried a vertical bridge wall?

[tseug]

All those possible improvements seem reasonable, but the only one I've had a chance to try is Taxing 27.

[Deathman48]

As for 22 Tricky, have you tried a vertical bridge wall?

That does no good, the bridge wall (if you mean 4 bridges next to each other) only stops Lemmings going in the other direction, you want to stop Lemmings that are going in the same direction as the first one.

[tseug]

A vertical bridge wall is several bridges stacked on top of each other. It is much easier with savestates.

[Deathman48]

Ah yes, I get what you mean. Have the first step at the same position of each bridge so that you basically make a wall that the Lemmings can't pass. I see what you mean about that being easier with save states.

[tseug]

I'm working on a 100% solution to mayhem 2. Executing it is like trying to knock a planet out of orbit with a walnut, so don't expect me to finish it soon.

I got Taxing 16.

While I was trying Tricky 23 I found out that the miner glitch activates automatically when the miner reaches the bottom of the level. Does this happen in DOS?

Getting closer on Tricky 23... there was a leak. It may be impossible without the "walkers only" function.

arrr... Taxing 13 has been boarded! The RR increased too slowly for Ahribar's method to work, so I used a different one. It was pretty hard, and barely worked.

The total number lost is now 79.

[ccexplore]

I think ccexplore found a slightly different solution on one of the other versions.

Yes, and mine doesn't require changing the RR if I recall correctly.

[ccexplore]

I'm working on a 100% solution to mayhem 2. Executing it is like trying to knock a planet out of orbit with a walnut, so don't expect me to finish it soon.

Hmm, that's an interesting idea now that you mentioned it. &#A0;I'll let you be the guinea pig and then maybe try it out on the DOS version if you succeed.

While I was trying Tricky 23 I found out that the miner glitch activates automatically when the miner reaches the bottom of the level. Does this happen in DOS?

I'm not sure what you mean by "activates automatically"?

But I'd guess it would work the same in the DOS version. &#A0;Just a guess though.