Mike! I want to ask you...

[guest]

But then I played Conway's "We All Fall Down" challenge level (fewer diggers), the lemmings safely landed in CustLemm. Now, I can't say for sure that the level layouts are the same in both cases... but if they are, then CustLemm has a greater safe fall distance than the regular Lemmings...

Wow, definitely news for me.  Gotta test this out...but still busy for next 7 hours.......

I wonder if the ONML game engine itself had the greater safe fall distance?  I remember peaking at the solutions from "The Lemmings Solution" site on certain ONML levels and thinking that the falling distance seems a bit higher than I'd think safe.  But I'm hardly a good judge of safe falling distances so this might mean nothing.

Very easy to test with LemEdit:  you should be able to transfer levels between the official .dat files.  Of course you probably want to make a copy of the files first so you still have an pristine copy of the game.

[guest]

I remember peaking at the solutions from "The Lemmings Solution" site on certain ONML levels and thinking that the falling distance seems a bit higher than I'd think safe.

I take that back, I think I was just misled by the picture and the somewhat brief description of the solution.

But it is still worth testing how "We all Fall down" behaves in ONML and the Xmas lemmings.

[Shvegait]

Yeah, since CustLemm uses the ONML engine that would make sense. I'll try it when I get a chance.

[guest]

Well, I tried it and the result is negative.

ONML still uses the same safe-fall distance as original Lemmings; We All Fall Down works as expected.

But yes, my copy of custlemm definitely has a different safe-fall distance, as tested on "We All Fall Down".

I haven't tested xmas lemmings yet.

I guess Mike could still answer the question regarding how many versions of original Lemmings were released to the public.  Just to see if there could be the possibility of an official version of the game having an altered safe-fall distance.

Or perhaps this is an unreleased version of DOS Lemmings that was at one point sent to the team responsible for making Lemmings for Windows?  In which case maybe the altered safe-fall distance in Lemmings for Windows is actually a by-product of the change in the DOS version?

The mystery deepens......

[DragonsLover]

So the question is: What is the correct safe-fall distance and how high it is?

[guest]

Clearly the safe-fall distance should be whatever makes the level "We All Fall Down" works.

So any version where you don't have to do anything to pass "We All Fall Down", a level that's repeated 4 times in the game, has what I'd say a wrong safe-fall distance.

Which is why I'm of the opinion that any versions of Lemmings that has such an incorrect distance must be the result of an unofficial hack.  But I could be wrong.  So, where are you, Mike?  

[Mr. K]

Or perhaps this is an unreleased version of DOS Lemmings that was at one point sent to the team responsible for making Lemmings for Windows?  In which case maybe the altered safe-fall distance in Lemmings for Windows is actually a by-product of the change in the DOS version?

Could this be why We All Fall Down is not in the Windows version?

[guest]

Could this be why We All Fall Down is not in the Windows version?

It's not???  :: I was under the impression that it is, this is how everyone knows the Windows version has a higher safe-fall distance.

[Isu]

The We all fall down level in Fun is not in the windows version. The other We all fall down levels are there. And I just tested it, you cannot complete "We all fall down" in the windows version by doing nothing. I don't know why the Fun one isn't there though

[guest]

Boy am I confused then.   X_X

So the version of the game with the incorrect safe-fall distance is a DOS version then, I guess.

I remember it had been referred to as the "CD version" or something, which might also explain the CD-audio capabilities.

I am still of the opinion, until Mike corrected me otherwise, that the distance change is unauthorized, if not that entire copy of the game.

[guest]

Well actually, I might not be as confused as I thought.

So I Google for "Lemmings" and "CD version".  I didn't found much, but there are 3 links where a CD version of Lemmings is mentioned:

http://faqs.ign.com/articles/369/369161p1.html

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=90847&item=8194910822&rd=1#ebayphotohosting

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=90847&item=8194242732&rd=1

Link #1 mentions the CD version and explicitly speaks of the incorrect safe-fall distance.  It did not however specify whether the game runs in DOS or Windows.  It did say it was "released by the Slash Corporation in 1995".

Link #2 is an e-bay item.  The title of this listing specifically says "Lemmings for windows PC CD ROM".  But it didn't mention anything about safe-fall distances or "We All Fall Down".  Because of the blurry photo it is impossible to make out who released this one.

Link #3 is another e-bay item.  Title of listing states "NEW Lemmings for Windows PC CD A Classic Bestseller".  It again didn't mention anything about safe-fall distances or "We All Fall Down", but it did mention that this version of the game has both the original and the ONML levels.

So clearly the Windows version(s?) of the game did come in CD-ROM format, and there was one CD version that has an incorrect safe-fall distance.  But it is not clear whether the CD version with the incorrect safe-fall distance is a Windows or DOS version of the game.

[guest]

What might be of interest is if someone sent me the version of the DOS game that has the incorrect safe-fall distance.  Email guestlevels (at) yahoo.

[guest]

Link #1 mentions the CD version and explicitly speaks of the incorrect safe-fall distance. &#A0;It did not however specify whether the game runs in DOS or Windows.

Ah, I read it again and found something new, link #1 also mentioned that the CD version it's talking about has the ONML levels.

So it seems very likely that he is talking about the same version of the game as in link #3, which is a Windows game.  So at this point there is no evidence of a DOS version of the game that was released on a CD.

So ISU, does the Windows version of the game you tested have the ONML levels?

[Isu]

Yes, I recieved the windows version (PC CD) of lemmings in a 3-game box set called "Lets go crazy with lemmings". It included the aforementioned lemmings, lemmings Paintball, and Lemmings 3D.

I don't know for sure, but maybe there are different PC CD versions of lemmings. It would explain why the max safe fall distance on my version is the same as the DOS version.

Another thing worth mentioning, The PC CD I got was released by Visual Sciences (I think). Apart from the DMA and Psygnosis logos, a Visual Sciences and Dice computer games logo is also displayed on the box, don't know if this means anything

[DragonsLover]

Here is what I found in the first link. Here is the answer:

Some of this walkthrough is written from memory, but what I wasn't able to recall from the recesses of my brain, I replayed using the CD version of Lemmings, released by the Slash Corporation in 1995. There are a few changes in it from the floppy disk DOS version that may seem minor but can lead to big screw-ups if those differences aren't distinguished. A prime example is that on the Slash CD, the splat distance has been increased slightly, so the Lemmings can fall a little farther without dying. If you are playing the floppy disk DOS version, I will indicate when these changes have a notable impact on a level's solution (example: 13 Fun).

We All Fall Down: This is the first level where the slight increase in splat distance between the floppy disk version and the CD version will apply. If you are playing the CD version, the Lemmings will not splat if they walk off the edge of the platform. If you are playing the floppy disk version, they will. The CD version makes the other variations of this level extremely easy as well, but if you have the dumb old floppy disk, use the step below to beat this one.

For the level "Easy When You Know How", a huge strange trick O_o:

SPECIAL CASE! If you are blessed with possession of the CD version, there is an interesting quirk in the programming that I don't understand but I love it anyway. If you bash through the last column with a walker, everything will occur as normal and your walkers will die and your floaters will live. If, however, you bash through the last column using a floater, the floaters AND walkers will survive! Ha ha! Tell me, how crazy is that? Oh! Oh! I need to stop and breathe.

So, I guess that the "floppy disk" version is the good one, right?