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Messages - Strato Incendus

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16
Quote
This will probably give him good reason to check my Lemmings: Hall of Fame replays for the final two ranks, as the plan is for me to do a few more rounds of resolving before he releases the pack sometime later in the year.

I just thought of that today on my way home, hoping the Easter break will finally give me the time to. ;)

Me thinking of this as Swerdis started playing Lemmings Open Air is just coincidence, though.

17
I don’t think there should be a transition animation :evil:, and I also don’t think Lemmings 2 ever had one. The Shimmiers just transition into Climbers right away. Hence, there are also no sprites for such a state.

If it’s already in the stable version as it is, and there’s never been a precedent for such a transition state (from Lemmings 2 or otherwise), this sounds like needless extra work for everyone (you, level creators, and players for having their replays broken).

18
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Pit Lems
« on: February 18, 2024, 04:47:10 PM »
Yes, they were never removed from the Old-Formats version. "Pit Lems Remastered" will eventually come out for New Formats, all the levels that are supposed to go in it have been converted to New Formats a long time ago. I just haven't gotten down to adapting the solutions for the levels with Radiation and Slowfreeze to New Formats yet.

For SuperLemmix, however, I have already re-added Radiation and Slowfreeze to these select few levels, taking the New-Formats conversions as a basis, and then placing the objects in the required spots. My replays are from a time period when the countdown for Radiation and Slowfreeze in SuperLemmix was still at 10, though, so I may have to redo them - which can be somewhat annoying, with execution-heavy tools like Radiation and Slowfreeze. Unless of course resetting the countdown to 9 may now allow me to run my original Old-Formats replays on these SuperLemmix levels. I haven't tried that out yet. :D

19
General Discussion / Re: General Comings and Goings
« on: February 03, 2024, 10:01:22 AM »
Thanks, @kaywhyn! ;) I’ll try to at least take a look at your replays soon.

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General Discussion / Re: General Comings and Goings
« on: February 03, 2024, 07:35:52 AM »
So, in case anyone is wondering what's going on with Lemmings: Hall of Fame, I'm currently in the process of moving house, but more in a "piece-by-piece" manner that will likely take until March.
@kaywhyn, I haven't forgotten about your replays. ;) I'm just mainly spending my weekends setting up furniture at the moment.
I'll try to watch them all soon, but it will take a while until I have the time to edit the levels of the final two ranks accordingly.

Lemmings: Hall of Fame will still happen, but most likely later this year. I was shooting for a release at the beginning of the year; but then, I found the new apartment in autumn, and have only had access to it since once week before Christmas. March is when the living-room furniture arrives, so at that point it will be a lot more hospitable.

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SuperLemmix Bugs & Suggestions / Re: [SUG] Radiation & Slowfreeze Objects
« on: December 01, 2023, 06:16:44 PM »
Quote
Radiation lems will have a red countdown, Slowfreeze lems will have a blue countdown.

Nice, simple, and straightforward idea! :thumbsup: Had never thought of that before.

Now I have to edit my World-Tour levels back to the 9-seconds countdown, after already having adapted two to the 10-seconds countdown. :evil: But it will be worth it in the end, because they will finally be consistent with the Old-Formats version again.

22
I just noticed something that I hadn't realised during testing of SuperLemmix 2.6 - because the release candidate didn't come with all the styles, there was one L2 Space level I had created earlier which I couldn't open in the RC version yet.

You could always have added it to the styles yourself for testing purposes ;P

I wasn’t sure whether the styles from 2.5 would still be compatible with 2.6. ;)
Also, namida once deliberately omitted the majority of the styles for a release candidate, to disincentivise people from creating level packs for non-stable versions of NeoLemmix.

Quote from: WillLem
a sloped ceiling, like the 45° angle created by the Laserer, obviously only has one pixel at the top

What do you mean by "at the top" here? Can you provide a visual example? It would make discussion of this somewhat easier, as I'm not 100% sure what the issue is here.

All I meant is that Laserers created 45-degree slopes, too. Thus, if you laser through a rectangular block of terrain, the ceiling of the Laserer tunnel will always end in a triangle, just like the triangular slopes from any of the polygon-based Lemmings 2: The Tribes tilesets.

Quote from: WillLem
A Shimmier will only transition into a Climber (and turn around in the process) if, at the end of the shimmy-able celing, there is a straight wall above it of at least two pixels.

Correct, well spotted. This is so that Shimmiers don't immediately transition to Climbers when Shimmying up a 45-degree tunnel.

Ah, that was the information I needed, thanks a lot! :thumbsup: This makes perfect sense, and even suggests there is no other way of doing this.
Otherwise, the Shimmier would turn around on each pixel of a 45-degree tunnel.

I guess the reason this doesn’t come up in Lemmings 2: The Tribes is because Shimmiers there can’t shimmy up 45-degree ceilings to begin with; instead, that is the Rock Climber’s purpose. A Shimmier who is also a Rock Climber will probably turn around immediately upon encountering a 45-degree ceiling in Lemmings 2: The Tribes — if that slope points upwards. If the slope is tilted downwards, an L2 Shimmier will probably just fall down.

But I haven’t tried this out yet in the Lemmings 2 engine; if I recall correctly, it’s not too easy to find a spot in any of the four practice levels where one could try out this specific sequence of skills. (I remember toying around in the Egyptian practice level, trying to test out all of these interactions; but it’s hard to find a suitable spot, and secondly, get a lemming to that spot, too.)

23
I just noticed something that I hadn't realised during testing of SuperLemmix 2.6 - because the release candidate didn't come with all the styles, there was one L2 Space level I had created earlier which I couldn't open in the RC version yet.

This level involved a Shimmier climbing up from a Laserer tunnel, using the new behaviour where Shimmiers can turn and climb up corners.
What I didn't expect was that a sloped ceiling, like the 45° angle created by the Laserer, obviously only has one pixel at the top, so the lemming doesn't transition into a Climber there - and hence, also doesn't turn around, but falls off the sloped ceiling once it ends, just like Shimmiers used to do when reaching a straight edge of a ceiling, too.

A Shimmier will only transition into a Climber (and turn around in the process) if, at the end of the shimmy-able celing, there is a straight wall above it of at least two pixels.
Diagonal Shimmier-friendly ceilings only have a single pixel at the top, and hence, a shimmying Climber will not turn around here, but simply fall off the ceiling and continue facing the same direction.



In sum, I'd say this is a good thing, as on this particular level, it required me to use another skill to create a second pixel there, in order to make the Shimmier climb and turn around.
The level became more challenging as a result, which is welcome, since it's supposed to go on the final rank of whatever pack eventually emerges from this.

I just wanted to remind everyone of this behaviour, and check whether it might be a bug, so that, if that's the case, I don't make more levels relying on this 1-pixel difference. :)
Don't worry, I'm not actually creating pixel-precise solutions here - rather, the difference of one pixel in terrain makes a conceptual difference here: It defines whether you need to use another skill to make the Shimmier climb and turn, or whether the terrain by itself will already cause him to climb and turn.

Personally, I think it makes sense that a Shimmier needs at least two pixels in height above him (i.e., the smallest vertical wall possible, since a single pixel is not a wall yet) in order to transition into a Climber. Now, in hindsight, I think I even recall WillLem having mentioned this requirement when he first introduced this skill-mechanical change.

24
SuperLemmix / Re: [DISC] SuperLemmix Discussion Topic
« on: November 29, 2023, 08:33:32 PM »
Congratulations to WillLem, and most of all, a big thank you for SuperLemmix 2.6! :thumbsup:

I actually waited for this version before creating further levels, even for those which don't require the new skills. That's due to the changed Shimmier behaviour of being able to climb up around corners. Since everyone knows by now how much I like using the Shimmier in my levels, it was therefore pointless to keep creating levels for version 2.5 when I knew the Shimmier behaviour would change in version 2.6, so my replays would break anyway. In the long term, though, I think this changed Shimmier behaviour (in line with Lemmings 2: The Tribes) will be for the better, as it creates opportunities for even more skill interactions, and thereby, more complex puzzles.

25
Just a quick remark that I am still planning to do an official conversion eventually - I've merely halted that process somewhere in the Professional rank, until WillLem officially announces the first "stable version" of SuperLemmix (SLX 3.0), so that I know the physics will no longer change in any fundamental way in the near future. For example, things like being able to assign Blockers to Swimmers. Even though World Tour doesn't feature any of the newer skills (Shimmiers, Jumpers, Sliders, Laserers etc.), new interactions of older skills like Blocker and Swimmer may still create new solutions - or backroutes.

Simultaneously, the reintroduction of radiation and slowfreeze has allowed me to bring back some of my old original solutions from Old-Formats Lemmings World Tour.
I assume @jkapp76 might not necessarily know what these are intended to look like, given that most people nowadays probably play Lemmings World Tour in New-Formats NeoLemmix. ;)

In the meantime, feel free to play this version. :D Just be aware that I can't really say anything about the intended solutions in this one, since some modifications may have been made by jkapp76 in order to make the levels playable in SuperLemmix (specifically, on any level that requires Stoners in NeoLemmix, and therefore requires Freezers in SuperLemmix).

26
Non-Lemmings Gaming / Re: What video game(s) are you playing at the moment?
« on: November 18, 2023, 11:21:41 AM »
Given that Lemmings was originally marketed as an "action puzzle", I wonder if anyone here has ever come into contact with the Mirror's Edge games?
I discovered them one year ago, and are currently replaying them again - because replay value is certainly something they have going for them! :thumbsup:

They're definitely more on the "action" than the "puzzle" side, but I'd kind of say they combine the best of both worlds:
During the initial playthrough, when you still need to figure out the path through a level, you will be busier with the "puzzle" side;
then, you're organically incentivised to do a re-run (not in a ham-fisted Yoko Taro-like way :P), because you'll naturally want to improve your performance in getting through the level.
So the second time, when you know the level better, you can focus more on the "action" side. It's one of the few games literally made for speedrunners.

Basically, imagine you had a Lemmings level and its rerun, both being an X-of-everything level; but the first time, you mess around trying out whatever you want; the second time, you put a self-imposed time limit on the whole thing, trying to get through it as fast and efficiently as possible.


I assume Mirror's Edge won't appeal to the puzzle purists, because execution difficulty is definitely a major component.
However, where in Lemmings, execution difficulty is accidental and mostly unwanted, in Mirror's Edge, it's an intended part of the challenge - just like if you were doing Parkour for real.

The "accidental" and usually "unwanted" part of Mirror's Edge is the gun combat, which slows you down and eliminates most of your movement options, i.e. does the exact opposite of what the game otherwise wants you to do (just like execution difficulty in the original Lemmings games hindered the puzzle aspect). That's why they removed gun combat from the sequel, Mirror's Edge: Catalyst, which only has martial-arts combat. However, even that often still ends up being clunky.

While many trash the story of both the original 2008 game and Catalyst, and it's certainly nothing to write home about, I actually found myself more invested in at least some of the events (especially in Catalyst) than in other games that attempt to go for a more complex and elaborate story, but fail at establishing a connection with the characters.



I'd sum up the basic idea as a combination of Tomb Raider, Spider-Man, and Temple Run 8-) :

You're doing fast parkour puzzles in a metropolis while being chased by cops and private security.

I have only found a few other games that attempt anything similar, but none of them quite come close:
- The Dying Light games and Cyberpunk 2077
(though I prefer the aesthetic of Mirror's Edge over both, since "dark and gritty" has been done to death at this point, and some even refer to Mirror's Edge as cyberpunk, too; I've discovered it by, and hence have always been referring to it, as "Grimbright").

- And then, I recently saw somebody randomly flash in gameplay of Neon White, which looks to me as if somebody had taken the abstract level shapes from the Mirror's Edge DLC time trials (where you're jumping around somewhere in the clouds) and mashed it together with The Legend of Zelda. :D

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SuperLemmix Bugs & Suggestions / Re: [SUG] New skill - Ballooner
« on: November 13, 2023, 06:55:12 PM »
Okay, then I’d also advocate for leaving it as it is. :D

I kind of foresee player complaints if somebody makes a level where everyone has to be assigned a Ballooner out of the hatch, rather than them all being pre-assigned.

Then again, I’m not a fan of levels with splat-height hatches, where you have to spend time assigning Floaters while simultaneously trying to build a splatform with some worker lemming. Usually, these levels only require a certain number of lemmings to be assigned Floaters (in this case, Ballooners) before the splatform is finished.

In contrast, I mainly use splat-height hatches if breaking the fall factors into the main solution somehow — rather than just being thrown in there as an additional challenge.

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SuperLemmix Bugs & Suggestions / Re: [SUG] New skill - Ballooner
« on: November 08, 2023, 04:03:27 PM »
Oh, I hadn't even thought of that possibility... :forehead: Since I indeed thought of them as comparable to Shimmiers.

If I recall correctly, it's not possible to assign a Ballooner to a Faller, since the lemming needs to stand somewhere to blow up the balloon.
I was just thinking of level possibilities where, instead of having to assign Floaters or Gliders to Fallers right out of a hatch, you'd have to assign Ballooners to save them.
But then again, I've never felt the need to do that on any level thus far, since I hadn't even thought of Ballooners doing anything straight after coming out of a hatch.

Quote
They can, however, be assigned to pre-placed lems (as with Shimmiers).

That is the important part, because it allows for lots of "get the Ballooner down" solutions, involving interactions with Grenaders, Spearers, and Laserers.

29
Strato, from this topic:

Quote from: Strato Incendus
you could even assign another Shimmier to make the lemming shimmy back the way he came. This can be useful, since bouncing a Shimmier with a Blocker usually requires some fiddly setup (otherwise, the lemming will easily just shimmy over the Blocker's head). And since Shimmiers don't turn around automatically when hitting regular walls (luckily!), we can use tricks like these to turn them around instead (shimmy, climb, slide back down, shimmy back).

Hi WillLem, I think you misunderstood my post. ;) Here’s the full context:

Great, thanks for implementing this, WillLem! :thumbsup: I look forward to seeing how it turns out in practice.

Quote from: WillLem
The exception to this is if the lem is also a Slider, in which case they slide down, dangle, and ultimately fall facing the opposite direction to their approach.

For added utility, at that point you could even assign another Shimmier to make the lemming shimmy back the way he came. This can be useful, since bouncing a Shimmier with a Blocker usually requires some fiddly setup (otherwise, the lemming will easily just shimmy over the Blocker's head). And since Shimmiers don't turn around automatically when hitting regular walls (luckily!), we can use tricks like these to turn them around instead (shimmy, climb, slide back down, shimmy back).

By “turning a Shimmier around with another Shimmier”, I was referring to the case where he turns a corner, climbs up, then slides down and dangles. That’s why I wrote at that point, we could assign another Shimmier (to make him shimmy back again).

In short: This was just me endorsing the turning-upward-corners behaviour of Shimmiers that are also Climbers.

I actually do NOT think it should be possible to simply turn a Shimmier around while shimmying by assigning another Shimmier. This is indeed one of the “broken” properties of the Walker. The reason I’m fine with it for the Walker is the Walker hardly does anything else, aside from cancelling skills. But Shimmiers can already be used to cancel skills, just like Jumpers. If Shimmiers can also turn around lemmings now (even if only in certain circumstances), they’d arguably become even more powerful than Walkers.

I assume it was an honest mistake, but by misunderstanding my post by only quoting a very specific part of it (“quote mining”), you made it look as if I held a position I don’t hold, and now, a whole thread has followed from it. :evil:

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Just a little update: I’ve revised the first half of the pack (ranks 1 and 2), based on kaywhyn’s feedback from testing, and sent him the new version.

After the second half has been vetted, too, I think the pack should be ready for release. But I can’t put a date on that yet. Even if kaywhyn plays through the remaining levels quickly, I don’t know how fast I’ll be in fixing them. :evil:

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