The summer solstice has recently passed, and the sun shines down upon you L2 fans...for I can now reveal my level pack in progress - Tribes of Steel!
Apparently someone discovered a prophecy that foretells the death of all lemkind, so the 12 tribes were all told to assemble at their base camps (prefabs erected just in case something like this would happen) with their talisman piece and embark on a journey to the centre of the island in order to escape certain doom.
(https://i.imgur.com/asVEDmD.png)
Note: Current version info can be found at the bottom of this post, as that's where the download link will be.
==========
The Background
==========
A few months ago, I played Quest from Kieran 2 (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3655.0) and was enthralled by it - so much so, that I still had thoughts about it long after I'd finished...and recently they persuaded me to have a go at L2 editing myself. One concept level and a bit of learning time on the editors later, and I think it's Thunder-Lemmings are Go!
Based on the same concept as QFK2* with some concepts of my own too, this is a full 120-level replacement. While I'm no stranger to level design (I made concept-based Doom/Heretic/Hexen level packs for 10-15 years), I doubt I'll be able to hit the puzzling heights of QFK2. I will try though, and the new level+skill combos are already bearing fruit. Besides, I've got plenty of ideas up my sleeve to ensure it looks, feels and plays differently (and it's showing already in the levels I've done so far). I'm hoping it'll end up somewhere between QFK2 and the original game on the quality scale (preferably closer to QFK2 ofc), but as long as it plays differently I don't mind.
And just in case you are worried about the execution side and the engine's quirks...there's always DOSBox with savestates. (https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=584684) Not quite as sophisticated as NL, but it does the trick. (and given what happened when I played QFK3, there won't be any ridiculous manoeuvres requiring savestate abuse)
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, as I'm no expert. If you manage to break a level, please let me know what you did (I'm bound to miss things, esp. given that you guys have played a lot more than me). I don't really know much about glitches either, so there's bound to be a few somewhere.
=========
The Concepts
=========
Each tribe has it's own fixed set of themed skills - like QFK2*, but with many changes. (nearly all tribes have at least 2 differing skills)
The first level of each tribe is exactly the same - but with different skills each time. (some are easy, some are hard)
The last level of each tribe has 10 (!) trapdoors - ensuring an epic finale. (having groups of 6 lemmings will open up a new set of solutions and a different approach to solving)
Each tribe requires the full 60 lemmings to reach the end. Classic requires 50, and level names will end in a number to show the death count.
* it partly feels like I'm ripping off the idea, so I apologise for that. But it is how I would've made the original L2 if it was me. Together with my own concepts and challenges, I'm confident it will play differently to QFK2.
=======
The Tribes
=======
It wouldn't be complete without a sneak preview, so here it is. Click on the spoiler for details.
The ancient clans used to bombard each other until the mighty Angus McLem brokered a peace treaty, and battles became sporting contests. Now they must put aside their differences and head south, using their regimental skills with their love of outdoor pursuits and ancestral song+dance habits to traverse the foreboding mountains.
Skills: Rock Climber, Parachuter, Hopper, Attractor, Thrower, Roper, Mortar, Twister
Extras:
(https://i.imgur.com/EEnGmcy.png)
Level 4: Lemfidditch Distillery
Roll up, roll up, it's the Greatest Show on Earth! (well, this little patch of it) Music, bright lights and balloons, spectacular jumps and cannonballs, all topped off with the amazing Superlem! But someone should tell them to stop clowning around and start travelling again. (preferably not using a car that falls to bits)
Skills: Ballooner, Superlem, Jumper, Attractor, Platformer, Club Basher, Twister, Laser Blaster
Extras: Cannon, Trampoline
(https://i.imgur.com/fe8DhDc.png)
Level 7: RGB Nightclub
What is there to say about these guys? While their methods have been tried, tested and proven effective all throughout history, they still subscribe to the old beliefs that lemmings like walking off cliffs and going pop in the night. Let's hope that at least half of them manage to make it with their gold talisman piece.
Skills: Climber, Floater, Exploder, Blocker, Builder, Basher, Miner, Digger
Extras:
(https://i.imgur.com/ntMJSrm.png)
Level 3: A Race of Halves
The Kingdom of Lemmand has built many fine castles all over the land, along with weapons and siege engines to cope with centuries of war...now the knights (and outlaws) must march to glory. These skills are surely going to be put to the test in their noble quest to meet the rest.
Skills: Climber, Roller, Archer, Builder, Platformer, Stacker, Fencer, Miner
Extras: Catapult
(https://i.imgur.com/gtYvzan.png)
Level 5: Acrobatic Outlaw
Ancient Gods, and lots of them. Lots of tombs to explore, lots of pots to fill up, lots of work to do. If only their Magic Carpets could carry it all to the underworld, but they're too unstable - and in any case it's a logistical nightmare, moreso than building pyramids without modern technology.
Skills: Magic Carpet, Shimmier, Slider, Filler, Sand Pourer, Glue Pourer, Basher, Stomper
Extras:
(https://i.imgur.com/5oLhl08.png)
Level 9: The Plunger's Tomb
"I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok!" But this lot aren't, as they don't cut down trees. Instead they take to the skies, the land, the water and ofc the veggie patch. Armed to the teeth with shovels and old WW2 ordnance they dug up previously, it's a long hard trek across the wilderness.
Skills: Ballooner, Parachuter, Kayaker, Planter, Platformer, Roper, Scooper, Bomber
Extras: Flicker
(https://i.imgur.com/Q76np0b.png)
Level 6: Not Mushroom Out There
The sun's out and it's party time - if only we'd booked a DJ, man! Just as well really, as the tide's coming in like really fast and we need to scramble, dude! Grab what you can...I'm sure those gliders, surfboards and parasols will be useful somewhere along the way. And don't forget the bucket and spade!
Skills: Hang Glider, Floater, Diver, Surfer, Sand Pourer, Platformer, Flamethrower, Scooper
Extras:
(https://i.imgur.com/gLMTOoJ.png)
Level 3: Fall & Rise of Reg Lemmy
The Modern Lemathlon is a regional obsession. Comprised of running, fencing, archery, pole vault and obstacle racing, it's a tough all-round challenge that demands a lot of training and dedication. Surely then, Team GL will be the most adept at dashing to the centre of the island with their piece of the World Trophy? Not if that notorious green landscape has anything to do with it...
Skills: Rock Climber, Shimmier, Runner, Pole Vaulter, Archer, Platformer, Fencer, Miner
Extras: Steam Jet, Trampoline
(https://i.imgur.com/TZmvFCs.png)
Level 8: Switcheroo
Ninjas. Now you see them, now you don't. Swords and shuriken are out, as they replaced the old ways with modern methods. If they're not monkeying around the city, they're setting off explosions from up close and afar. Which does kinda defeat the point of sneaking around. Let's hope they can navigate the streets and reach the centre hideout before the time runs out and the baddie wins. (this message will now self-destruct in 5 seconds)
Skills: Rock Climber, Shimmier, Slider, Filler, Builder, Roper, Bazooka, Bomber
Extras:
(https://i.imgur.com/uQSKFaW.png)
Level 2: Urban Gymnastics
Thousands of years ago, lemmings first appeared on the island and somehow survived all the evolution since then. But after passing out of all knowledge for so long, their talisman piece has been found and they now must take it deep into the central mountain and cast it into the fire (or so they think). And to make things worse, they can't use the Icarus to fly all the way there because it would fill a plot hole or something.
Skills: Icarus Wings, Jumper, Swimmer, Spearer, Builder, Stacker, Club Basher, Stomper
Extras: Dinosaur
(https://i.imgur.com/ZbcoCJh.png)
Level 5: Lem of the Dump
These pioneers of technology have managed to establish a moon base right here on this very island. They could teleport straight to the ark, except that they lost their talisman piece during a wormhole experiment some time ago. So they must go boldly where no lemming has gone before, and retrieve it using their futuristic tools (including their new invention of space glue!) accompanied by the sound of retro synth music.
Skills: Jetpack, Magno Boots, Attractor, Builder, Glue Pourer, Bazooka, Mortar, Laser Blaster
Extras: Teleporter
(https://i.imgur.com/RCClF2M.png)
Level 7: Laser Quest
Brrr, it's cold up north! But the Lem's Watch are well used to it, and have become quite adept at reaching high places. They're also good tunnellers, by virtue of having to constantly clear snow away. With all this and their traditional winter pastimes, can they cross the frozen North while avoiding zombies (they carry fire, just in case) and escape the prophecy?
Skills: Climber, Skier, Skater, Roper, Stacker, Flamethrower, Scooper, Digger
Extras:
(https://i.imgur.com/nPJFV4A.png)
Level 5: Eskimo Beat
=========
How to Install
=========
Back up your current /LEVELS/ folder within Lemmings 2, then extract the contents of the zip into there, overwriting the existing files.
How to run Lemmings 2 in DOSBox (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3273)
If you wish to play with the Amiga music instead, grab them from this thread and play externally. (with the PC music turned off)
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1803.msg44855#msg44855
========
How to Play
========
You have to manually save the game from the main menu, in between levels.
Keyboard shortcuts:
ESC: Quick Restart
F1 - F8: Skills 1-8 (sadly not as usable as L1, particularly on levels not using all 8 skills)
SPACE: Fan (required for several skills)
P: Pause (you can also unpause by pressing Space, if you want the fan ready when you do)
ENTER: Fast Forward (you can also cancel this by pressing Space, if you want the fan ready when you do)
========
Savestates
========
These are highly recommended, as a primitive but still effective player aid. While I've tried to avoid high-precision puzzles (similar to QFK2), the levels are somewhat bigger with more skills (especially the epic finale of each tribe), therefore it will be helpful to use them. There are two options:
If using DOSBox with savestates (https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?p=584684), you have these controls:
ALT+F5: Save state
ALT+F9: Load state
ALT+F6: Previous slot
ALT+F7: Next slot
(10 save slots in total, with wraparound when selecting)
If using DOSBox-X (https://www.dosbox-x.com), you have these controls:
F11+S: Save state
F11+L: Load state
F11+(comma): Previous slot
F11+(dot): Next slot
(100 save slots in total, more than enough!)
I still recommend saving your game manually too.
===============
Current Version - 13.12 (download link at the bottom of the post)
===============
All 12 tribes complete. The final release will come after testing/tweaking, along with a video playthrough.
=====
Credits (so far)
=====
geoo - for creating both L2Suite (excellent editor/organiser) and PCL2Ed. (which is required occasionally)
GuyPerfect - for creating lgl2. (the main level editor)
kieranmillar - for creating QFK2. (the amazing level pack that inspired me to follow in it's footsteps)
Feedback credits will be added later.
======
Footnote
======
This is a new journey for me (and an unexpected one too), but the ideas are coming thick and fast. I hope to complete it by the time the winter solstice has recently passed, but will probably end up in next year. Either way, only the 3rd full Lemmings 2 game in 30 years will be something to look forward to!
Thanks for the opening feedback, very much appreciated :)
It's interesting (and kinda weird) to see my levels on YT and watching people try different ways to solve them, before finding a way past that I didn't think of :P (with some of the levels so far)
Circus 1 - The Base Camp is a curious concept, and there are several ways to solve it for each tribe. I've done the 45° twister up to the middle, along with platform across the bottom. (the level was much easier until I swapped builder for platformer, which is ironic as most platforming tribes have it real easy on this one)
Circus 2 - Grats on beating it with that method, but there is an easier way. (a clue is in the title)
Circus 3 - I did wonder if that opening puzzle (the hole) at the top would cause a backroute...looks like I'll have to remove it. Nice technique with the Superlem though, I wonder if other levels could break in the same way.
Again, I'm impressed with the alternative-route finding with those two...I should probably try to break my own levels before releasing :P
(although my Superlem skills are somewhat below yours, plus I wanted to get this tribe out before RL forced a break)
Circus 4 - Looks like I was right about my previous statement on level 3...Superlem did break this one, too.
Circus 5 - The intended route can be done with a 5 min timer, but your route is just as intricate - so adding time for the next release won't be an issue. (and it's not the only level so far with 2 routes that are both worthy)
Really liking these videos, it's interesting to see all the different ways to solve each level.
Circus 6 - Nice method for getting up top, different to mine but still worthy.
About the chains...that started off in Highland 2 as a joke, when I came up with the idea of using them as scenery. 3 levels later I decided to use them as platforms, just to say I've actually found a working use for the useless feature (which is 100% true for custom, as both editors only give them 2 links). It actually looks really good in the docks level, but I guess it's causing issues so I'll revert to just using them as scenery.
Apologies for causing time loss in that one, but it's worth knowing that I'd never make such a difficult move part of the intended route (the one where you tried to twist down the far right above the exit).
Circus 7 - This is actually one of my favourite puzzles, and the best one involving a cannon. There was a couple of times in the video where you almost came across the intended solution, but I was still impressed by the one you found. (I would never ask for something as precise as that, though)
Circus 8 - You actually had the right idea from the start (about the attractor and grouping them up by the trampoline), but I do now think the final part of the puzzle is a little bit too much...so I've reworked it a bit for this next release (based on something else you said later).
At this point it's worth noting that the intended route for each level will never include incredibly precise moves (notably with twisters) that are very hard to pull off - if it seems a bit OTT it's probably the wrong method. I will ofc be impressed with successful alternative routes of this nature, but there will be an easier way.
Hopefully I'll have the next tribe ready over the weekend, but here's a new version in the meantime:
====================
Version 3.3 has been released
====================
Highland 3 (McLem's Drunken Dream) - removed another cloud and 1 roper, rearranged things at the start a little.
Highland 5 (Lembank Docks) - replaced the chain swingers (masquerading as platforms) with actual platforms.
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - added some metal blocks to the shaft, preventing possible twister backroutes. (as well as helping with the puzzle)
Circus 6 (Across the Abyss) - retextured it to look nicer, removed 2 attractors (they weren't really needed), replaced the chain swingers (masquerading as platforms) with actual platforms.
Circus 7 (Breakout) - lowered the blue & yellow trapdoors (to less than ow distance), increased twisters to 10. (matching the other heavy twister levels)
Circus 8 (Roadblock) - reworked the final puzzle a bit, removed 1 platformer, added 1 club basher.
Circus 10 (Deca-Dance) - made the bottom Superlem manoeuvre more forgiving, simplified the carriage trapdoor puzzle, removed 3 platformers, added 5 jumpers.
Very nice so far, things will get trickier though. (I was convinced I'd never be able to create puzzles as hard as yours, but 3 tribes in I'm not so sure now)
The very first thing I discovered when I started on this journey was that the red/blue wedges don't work as ladders...there's a single pixel gap. So I used them for going downwards, and green/yellow for going upwards. They appear in 2 other Highland levels, do you think they will catch people out in the same way that the hanging chains did?
Highland 1 - There are multiple solutions to each base camp, the concept is to highlight the differences between the tribes by completing the same level with each skillset. (it's also a bit like a practice level for each tribe)
Highland 2 - Hrm, there was me thinking this level couldn't be broken. Very nice solution (probably better than the intended one), but I think I can fix it.
Highland 3 - I took great care to ensure it was too far to shortcut with a rope, but not to parachute onto the golf course...but still, you found a lot of the intended solution in the end.
Highland 4 - There are 2 ways to do it, but after I redesigned the level, the one you did became the main way.
A quick update, after noticing a couple of errors (one of them major).
====================
Version 4.1 has been released
====================
Highland 2 (Pillars of Hebrides) - added a wall in front of the exit, removed 1 mortar and the base of each pillar. (to fix a somewhat clever backroute)
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - removed a graphical error and slightly extended the ledge over the blue house. (for easier roping)
Classic 3 (A Race of Halves) - removed an erroneous pillar that would cause a backroute. (a failed attempt to add scenery above the exit)
Looks like another update is needed, but that's what playtesting is for. (I appreciate it)
Highland 5 - Not sure what to do here. The intended route is the bottom way, but I did discover the top way before I originally released it. However, it was a more difficult route so I left it in. (plus I couldn't find a way to fix it)
Highland 6 - Looks like I didn't entirely crawl-proof it. All the skills are involved though, and I do find mortars help a bit with certain twister moves. Your twister skills are impressive (I dunno if I can leave 1-pixel ledges like that), but I wouldn't ask for that level of precision in the intended method.
(btw I'm not offended by attempts to break the levels, it's part of the process)
Classic 1 - This is the one tribe I was concerned about for the base camp (even less so than Egyptian after I found an easier way for that). You did have the correct method (the only bit you missed was mining the end off the bridge, so the blocker and releaser could climb up), but I was never happy with it for an intro map.
It might be a directional thing too...I noticed while doing Classic that I found it easier to deal with blockers on left-to-right bridges (which is not the case here), so rather than reverse all 12 base camps (like I had to with one Classic level), I've fixed this one so the straight bridge method can be used with 2 builders.
====================
Version 4.2 has been released
====================
Highland 6 (The Iron-Rich Mountain) - added some more water (to stop crawlers), improved the left trapdoor cave. (to make it easier to control and escape from). Also added 1 min and 1 roper.
Classic 1 (Base Camp) - extended the highest part of land before the big wall. (to allow an easier method to be used)
Normally I'd reply sooner, but I've been busy...
Highland 7 - Very nice. You can mortar a bit higher up on the first green pillar, to avoid having to parachute through the hole.
Highland 8 - You were so close, I thought you had it on more than one occasion.
...getting the next tribe done. I had fun with this one, particularly with the skill combos and trying to work catapults into puzzles (fairly easy after doing Circus though). I did want to move the roller to another tribe (namely Sports or Circus) but there was no room in either, plus it combo'd beautifully with some of the other skills...so I rolled with it. (heh)
====================
Version 5.0 has been released
====================
Medieval - tribe is now complete.
Highland 2 (Pillars of Hebrides) - replaced the swinging chain with a pair of giant arrows, to indicate whether the wedge staircases go up or down. Also filled in the space I didn't use with a bit of scenery.
Highland 3 (McLem's Drunken Dream) - replaced the diamond in the top right corner with the aforementioned swinging chain scenery. (he's drunk)
Highland 5 (Lembank Docks) - reworked the bottom section to have less gaps and removed 2 ropers. (that should kill the top route)
Highland 8 (Loch Lemond Storage Tank) - reworked the top section slightly (to add more room on the way back down), added 1 hopper and 1 thrower.
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - made the trapdoor directly above the exit safe, added 1 roper and removed 1 attractor. (I decided that only 1-2 trapdoors should be unsafe at the start of these epic 10-trapdoor levels)
Circus 9 (RGB Nightclub) - added 1 laser blaster, in case lemmings get stuck in the wagon wheels.
Congrats on finishing a tribe! How would you rate the difficulty compared to QFK2? (hard to tell atm)
Highland 8 - Very nice, I didn't think it could be done with 1 rope instead of 2 (which does break the other half of the top section, but is very difficult to pull off in the first place). The dog is solid btw, so feel free to use all 5 throwers before then.
Circus 8 - I didn't think you'd get a balloon through that gap, the intended way was to Superlem up and twist/club bash the top off the column to let the balloons up. Fixable, though.
Circus 9 - Solved pretty quickly, I wonder if this should be moved forward a couple of slots?
Circus 10 - The 10 trapdoor concept is an interesting one, but I admit this level is a bit more vague as to the solution (the other ones so far have a more obvious path). These levels are bound to have multiple solutions, but I wouldn't ask for sending up several balloons at once or fitting them through a laser hole with less than 5 blasters (the random piece of steel isn't quite so random). I might try and simplify it a bit more later on, though.
Anyway, no intermediate update for this version...as I move straight on to the next one. This tribe was interesting, despite having the same core concept (pots) it turned out completely different due to the skill changes and the way I used them. (notably using carpets to go up all the time instead of down)
====================
Version 6.0 has been released
====================
Egyptian - tribe is now complete.
Circus 8 (Roadblock) - increased the height of the blue+yellow column, added another club basher.
Classic 8 (Tricks & Traps) - speeded up the release rate (to stop a possible 2-death solution), removed 2 mins. (it's not as long as I thought)
Medieval 10 (The Siege of Lemcastle) - removed the wooden block next to the catapult. (manual containment is needed there anyway)
Thanks for the videos, it's great to have you on board. My thoughts on it:
Highland 5 - for some reason, everyone who tested it so far found the more difficult top route...luckily I was able to fix it in 5.0.
Highland 8 - I forgot about that glitch...even though it's escapable, adding an extra minute won't hurt.
Highland 9 - looks like I have another backroute to fix in the middle, as the rock climber is indeed meant to come from below.
Highland 10 - it's a bold concept and by nature will have many solutions, but I really do like it. Your solution was quite impressive too, but I think I can force the other twister to be used in the intended spot.
And this also means that unlike the previous major version, this one didn't have to wait long for an intermediate update:
====================
Version 6.1 has been released
====================
Highland 8 (Loch Lemond Storage Tank) - added 1 min.
Highland 9 (Sky-High Installation) - removed the block in the middle and moved the trapdoor down a bit (to prevent anyone escaping). Also added some red blocks to make the top twister section a bit less risky on the fall.
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - raised the height of the red building (to prevent the easy mortar escape), removed the metal from the tall shafts (no longer needed). Also moved the trapdoors around so the one just above the water is now first.
Circus 10 (Deca-Dance) - reworked the rightmost yellow trapdoor (so it no longer requires a bridge), added 5 jumpers.
Classic 10 (Random Lemming Pun) - reworked the terrain under the centre trapdoor. (to make controlling it a lot easier, and to avoid a potentially misleading path at the start)
Medieval 10 (The Siege of Lemcastle) - added more room to the trapdoor by the lake.
Nicely done. Next tribe is going quite slowly, so plenty of time to catch up a bit.
Circus 2 - there is a quicker way to do it.
Circus 3 - definitely a backroute, albeit a very clever one.
Circus 4 - I've seen a few backroutes around the exit, but they all have a bit too much precision. (it's kinda hard to prevent them though)
Circus 5 - I kinda like both routes, but the alternative one (which you did) does leave the cannon bit until last, which is a no-no unless you have huge amounts of time. Not sure if I should block one off or not.
Circus 6 - ballooning over the pit is a lot easier than up through a laser hole ;) (and still not the intended route - but again, as you mentioned earlier, these levels are more open-ended)
Circus 7 - one of my favourite puzzles. The reason I add so many twisters (unless it breaks the level) is because they're so unreliable and fiddly to use.
Circus 8 - oh dear, that's embarrassing... :P (can be easily fixed though)
Circus 9 - another backroute, but can also be fixed.
Anyway, here's another update for those pesky clowns:
====================
Version 6.2 has been released
====================
Circus 3 (Jack in t'Box) - added metal to fix a backroute.
Circus 5 (The Weighting Room) - added 1 min.
Circus 8 (Roadblock) - straightened up the roadblock itself (metal), to fix a backroute.
Circus 9 (RGB Nightclub) - added metal above the blue trapdoor, to fix a backroute.
Great to hear from you again, and some great feedback too - many fixes to make:
Classic 3 - this one is meant to be tight, but with 3 floaters it's not as tight as it was on the video.
Classic 5 - There is an easier solution for the final bit, but requires a little more setup.
Classic 6 - The 2nd death is meant to be in the water, looks like I need to remove a builder. Feels a bit too precise though, so I might alter it again before the end.
Classic 7 - Nice solution, but it was a backroute like you suspected. I'll have to change it because of the threat posed by a no-death solution.
Classic 8 - I did not know about the fire jets, I was as surprised as you were when they built straight through. The level title comes from Doom 2, and the trick needed in this one comes from the original L1. (a whole level was dedicated to it there, then it was used again a few levels later)
Classic 9 - Sometimes I can miss obvious things like that...a bit of metal should sort it though. (and you were correct, the aim is to use the athlete at both ends)
Classic 10 - Part of the problem you had here was that you used a savegame with 60 lemmings. The level is set up for 51 lemmings (becoming 50 when the first is blown up), hence why there are 10 climbers/floaters (only 5 lemmings per trapdoor instead of 6). Some parts of your solution made more sense than mine though, so I'll change some skills around to support it.
Medieval 2 - I only added that hill for scenery, looks like it'll have to go again.
Medieval 3 - Ugh, how the hell did that get there? That looks like a mess left behind after the last update, luckily it exposed another flaw...namely having too many stackers/miners. The level is designed to showcase various roller tricks, when cleaned up it should be fine.
Medieval 4 - Another backroute, some metal should sort it though.
Medieval 6 - I actually forgot that trapdoor was there...I put it there so all 60 didn't have to use the catapult, I guess I can move it closer to the dungeon.
Medieval 7 - Building up a bit higher would've removed the need for that attempted save with the archer.
Medieval 8 - Didn't think the middle trapdoor could rescue themselves...needs sorting.
Medieval 9 - The reason it appears repetitive is because you used precision stacking on each floor (which I would never ask for), without that it's a number of different solutions for turning round on each floor.
Medieval 10 - This is one of two where the time limit is anywhere close, my PB is something like 2½ mins left. You're probably right about the savestate thing, these 10-trapdoor levels do remind me a bit of the larger L3/QFK3 levels, which I would never attempt without savestates. (btw this is the one I'm least happy with, I need to think of some way of speeding it up without breaking the main principle)
Egyptian 2 - You did indeed manage to cheese it. (and missed out on a great puzzle, as a result)
Egyptian 3 - This one was originally more complex (using carpet/shimmy trickery to help stomp down pillars), but dropped all that to focus on the awesome main puzzle.
Egyptian 6 - The basher stuff wasn't intended, the correct way is to fill the other pool of water and bash onto that.
Egyptian 7 - The only thing you missed was an easier way to do the lower glue bridge (no need to pull off that difficult carpet move).
Egyptian 8 - Silly mistake from me to leave that open, esp. given that one of the puzzles is the very same thing.
Egyptian 9 - Couldn't have seen that coming off a sand pourer. The solution? Remove all sand pourers! (I was only using them to turn round, easy to compensate for)
Egyptian 10 - You actually had the correct solution at one point (stomper+glue), but you didn't have another stomper left to finish it off. (I know very little about L2 glitches, so I wouldn't have thought of the basher trick you used instead)
I've currently got around a third of Space to go, so here's a interim update with all the fixes:
====================
Version 11.1 has been released
====================
Highland 1 (Base Camp) - re-set the correct size, so it isn't a garbled mess. (ouch)
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - added 1 twister and removed 2 mortars, reverting the previous change. (alternative solutions will always be a part of these epic finales, and I was impressed with the one in the video)
Classic 6 (Chambers of Aquatia) - removed 1 builder and 1 digger.
Classic 7 (Stepping Up and Down) - extended a block to shorten the area just above the exit.
Classic 8 (Tricks & Traps) - added a block between the fire jets in the exit area.
Classic 9 (Split at the Hill) - added metal to the left block, moved metal up the right block, removed 5 builders.
Classic 10 (Random Lemming Pun) - removed 5 floaters and 2 miners, reverted the previous change to the middle trapdoor.
Medieval 2 (Finishing the Arc) - removed the small hill, added metal to the starting ledges.
Medieval 3 (Acrobatic Outlaw) - removed the mess from the last update (ugh), slightly altered the exit area, reduced stackers to 2 and miners to 1.
Medieval 4 (Hack & Slash) - added metal to the starting areas.
Medieval 6 (Dungeon & Dragon) - moved the forgotten trapdoor to the grass area just outside the dungeon.
Medieval 8 (Siege Engine Graveyard) - extended the middle trapdoor tunnel area, moved the catapult back.
Egyptian 2 (Stomp Like an Egyptian) - added metal to the base of the start pillars.
Egyptian 3 (Tomb of Ikea) - shortened the ceiling table.
Egyptian 8 (The Chambers of Cain) - reworked the gap between trapdoor and exit. (so it can't be cheesed)
Egyptian 9 (The Plunger's Tomb) - removed all sand pourers (so it can't be cheesed), slightly reworked some areas to compensate.
Great to hear from you again:
Shadow 2 - looks like the pit is causing issues. The lemming will slide into the gap, but I didn't think it would appear too small for that...I probably need to make it bigger. (and a similar gap in L5)
Sports 2 - Definitely a backroute there, taking the whole crowd across the top. Nice solution though, probably easier than the intended one. (apart from the pixel-precision miner)
Re: scenery - everything is solid except for sun, moon & stars. (and objects ofc)
The more I think about it though, the more I think I've actually made this harder than QFK2 - and that's just on the puzzles. (not counting the larger level sizes and skill counts)
Nice vids of Shadow so far. It was one of my favourite tribes to make, due to the setting and the skillset. (the bomber being a lot more flexible than I originally thought, which compensates for having just explosions to tunnel with)
Anyway, onto some notes:
Shadow 3 - I spent ages trying to make that one break-proof, and I still failed :P Easy to fix though, and still a neat solution. (though I think you know the correct one now, from the youtube comments)
Shadow 4 - You actually solved the falling puzzle right at the start (in your commentary) but I'm still impressed that you managed to cheese it.
Shadow 5 - Not quite the right way (this one is almost a disjoint union like L3), but another good alternative.
Shadow 6 - I didn't think a shimmier could cross over a hole in the ceiling like that, as a result you did backroute it that way. The correct one is building into the cloud to turn round and jump onto the outside wall, hopefully people will try to find out if clouds are solid. (if they haven't played the 2 cloud-based levels in other tribes)
Shadow 7 - This one has multiple solutions due to it's length (I added a 3rd rope just for that). Mine is a more thematic one (monkeying around the sewers like ninjas do) but yours works just as well.
And this leads onto a new build - please use this one, as it contains fixes to the remaining Shadow levels. (which you are about to play)
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Version 13.6 has been released
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Sports 2 (The Stadium Underbelly) - reworked some areas (notably around the trapdoor), changed some skill amounts.
Sports 5 (Dynamic Duo) - reworked the start area to remove the chance of breaking the main concept.
Sports 7 (The Gulf in Class) - reworked the first area, changed some skill amounts.
Sports 8 (Switcheroo) - reworked the bottom left corner and added some skills, altered the release rate. (it was still possible to break the main concept)
Shadow 2 (Urban Gymnastics) - moved the postbox to the right, removed a brick near the weird pit, +1 filler.
Shadow 3 (Filling Station) - removed a few bricks from under the 2nd trap tunnel. (backroute fix)
Shadow 4 (Air Raid) - extended the metal dividers between the underground trapdoors. (backroute fix)
Shadow 5 (Water Works) - added a long metal strip between the two trapdoor areas. (backroute fix)
Shadow 6 (Scraping the Sky) - partly reworked the area around the thin shaft and traps. (backroute fix)
Shadow 8 (Production Line) - added 2 exits, removed some scenery and all the bazookas, +3 bombers. (it was still possible to break the main puzzle)
Shadow 9 (Mission: Impassible) - restored the bazookas, there are now 12 of each explosion.
Shadow 10 (Pockets of Resistance) - carved out a niche in the central shaft, to ensure that no rock climbers can escape. Also +5 bombers, as it was a little too tight.
Nice videos. Outdoor does seem broken in places, and Beach seems to be made of cheese rather than sand. I actually think Sports is one of the hardest tribes in the pack, so glad to hear you enjoyed it.
Outdoor 2 – That’s a backroute, should be easy to sort.
Outdoor 3 – The bad thing about the flicker is that you can’t walk onto it…unless you build a bridge first.
Outdoor 4 – There are a few vanilla L1/L2 references in the pack, that was the first one I thought of (also the very first level idea I had). The only issue appears to be CC at the top, a bit of metal under the trapdoor should solve that.
Outdoor 6 – at one point I thought you were going to bomb the mushroom next to the flicker (which would’ve been a backroute), but instead came up with a neat alternative use for the rope.
Outdoor 7 – ballooning directly out from under the tree wasn’t intended (it’s a bit tight), but I can fix that.
Outdoor 8 – looks like a redesign is needed here, I didn’t think it could be done that easily.
Outdoor 9 – and here too, the solution wasn’t the one I thought of. I do like it though, so I’ll make it the new solution (albeit a little harder). And the intended solution is also used in Shadow, so it’s still in the game.
Outdoor 10 – I have to admit that sometimes I worry about the execution requirement on these L10’s…but I was trying to do something different, and provide an epic finale to each tribe.
Beach 2 – I was actually aware that this one was broken, but didn’t fix it before this video went up. (btw, the flamethrowers are there to prevent the 50/50 scooper dilemma)
Beach 3 – Very nice…you even used the intended solution from the previous level. A single block of metal will fix it though.
Beach 4 – Oops, looks like I need to make that fall a splat distance.
Beach 6 – One little cloud broke the whole level. I’d not taken the cloud below the trapdoor into account either, so I’ll alter the top half of the solution accordingly.
Beach7 - Nice move with the left trapdoor. This one might get re-designed anyway, but for now I’ll add another set of beach huts to fix it.
Beach 8 – Nicely done, I didn’t think of scooping directly onto the metal. The big sand pile was also a backroute as you suspected.
Beach 9 – There is a way to CC at the start, but tbh I don’t like it’s reliability (which is why there are so many divers). I’ve thought of a better (and thematic) way to do it though, so I’ll add the extra skills.
Beach 10 – The same (unreliable CC) method was meant to be used in the bottom-right corner (to surf each lemming across), so I might set up the new method there, too.
Sports 2 – Everyone seems to like the top route...think I can sort it though. Surprised that you said there were no jumpers...would've been much easier if you remembered the shimmiers. ;)
Sports 3 – Same with this level. And if one fencer tunnel isn't high enough, there's always two.
Sports 4 – Damnit, I knew there'd still be a way to break it. Reducing skills should fix it though.
Sports 5 – Ditto. All I can do is remove a fencer, which leaves you needing to fence the right way. Pause always works though.
Sports 6 – Very clever backroute, but changing the solution can fix it. (no more mining down)
Sports 7 – Some lovely irony going on here. You used my original solution to the 1st room, in the 2nd room. (I removed it because it was relying on knowledge of that weird quirk that rock climbers have, by not going over vertical arrows). I can disable that solution in both rooms, though. (you were right about the pole vaulter, but you'd built the bridge too high in the video)
Sports 8 – Bit hacky but yes, another one that needed fixing to preserve the main concept.
Sports 9 – There is a much quicker way to finish it (sending the crowd up and using the runner to lay the bridges instead of sending the rock climber up on his own), but I've added some time anyway. As for visual indicators...the darts near each valve are giving a clue, but tbh this tribe is quite poor for that sort of thing. (as are most of them)
Sports 10 – And again...you used my original solution to the top-left trapdoor (it was a narrower gap so you could fence a hole in the far side to climb into). I am going to lower the exit a bit (you didn't need to fire from so far back btw) and add some miners, to prevent running out completely.
And this leads onto a new build with many changes:
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Version 13.7 has been released
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Outdoor 2 (Race for Life) - extended the metal above the exit. (to match the metal below)
Outdoor 3 (Under the Growth) - replaced the fence post by the flicker with a metal block.
Outdoor 4 (In Order: Down, Along, Up) - added some metal under the trapdoor area. (safer CC)
Outdoor 6 (Not Mushroom Out There) - replaced the mushroom by the flicker with a metal block.
Outdoor 7 (The Irrigation Pond) - lowered the tree down a touch. (to prevent ballooning directly out)
Outdoor 8 (Sinkhole Rescue Team) - redesigned the middle, removed the 2nd trapdoor, raised the exits, altered some skill amounts.
Outdoor 9 (Swamp Thing) - removed the long vine sticking out of the tree on the left side.
Outdoor 10 (The Plantshaft) - redesigned the buried trapdoor near the exit.
Beach 2 (The Sand Pit) - extended the pit to prevent it being cheesed.
Beach 3 (Fall & Rise of Reg Lemmy) - added a metal block to prevent it being cheesed.
Beach 4 (Everybody Do the Flop!) - raised a ledge up to prevent it being cheesed.
Beach 6 (Little Fluffy Clouds) - removed a little cloud to prevent it being cheesed. Also extended the cloud below the trapdoor, -1 diver, +3 flamethrowers. (a little bit of skill management going in there)
Beach 7 (Beach Hut BBQ) - added another column of beach huts to the left trapdoor to prevent it being cheesed.
Beach 8 (Sandy Cove) - some alterations to the cave itself. Also +2 surfers.
Beach 9 (Dune Climbing Contest) - added some sand and 1 platformer, to make the CC easier.
Beach 10 (Artificial Resort) - added 1 platformer, to make the CC in that area easier. (there was enough sand already)
Sports 2 (The Stadium Underbelly) - slight rework of the trapdoor area (again), this time adding a wall and 2 rock climbers.
Sports 3 (Letting off Steam) - removed the scenery-only steam jets, and added a slight visual clue for the valve.
Sports 4 (Hold the Line) - reduced fencers and archers to 1, miners by 1, added a few shimmiers and tweaked a couple of areas.
Sports 5 (Dynamic Duo) - removed a fencer, as it was the only way to preserve the main concept. (unfortunately that means you now have to fence the right way, but pausing always seems to work)
Sports 6 (A Mountain to Climb) - carved a metal-floored path under the valves, added wedges to enable a rock climber to get up to the top area. (instead of mining down from the valves)
Sports 7 (The Gulf in Class) - altered the ceilings to prevent shimmiers from crossing. (so many great solutions in this tribe, that I have to remove one to protect another)
Sports 8 (Switcheroo) - many alterations to many parts of the level. (it was quite hard to fix this one)
Sports 9 (Remote Control) - +1 min.
Sports 10 (Mastered Doubles) - lowered the top of the pipe area (including the exit) down a touch, for easier execution. Also +5 miners for flexibility.
Didn't expect that:
Shadow 8 - one of my favourite puzzles. Slightly easier if you send 2 lemmings across the ceiling at the start, and use the 3rd rock climber to carry out the solution ahead of the crowd.
Shadow 9 - oops. I've fixed it and sent geoo a copy, as I doubt I'll get another release out before he plays it.
Shadow 10 - Never seen a crash there before (in fact the only one I've ever had was on Polar 10 when it had a cool skier trick in it). There are easier (and safer) ways to get the bottom corner trapdoors out, though. (the central shaft is another one of my favourite puzzles too)
Nice vids, relatively little to fix with some of these:
Shadow 10 - Somehow I had a feeling you'd find an alternative way down the central shaft...hence why I didn't think about bazookas being fired at animated windows. Thumbs up for finding it though, very clever. Trouble is, the only way I can fix it is to put metal around the edge of the building...which looks ugly as hell.
Sports 3 - I didn't check that you could fence up through the first wall without jumping on an arrow first...that can be sorted. The spare fencer is to make a bigger tunnel for the shimmier at the top. (so he has room to jump)
Sports 4 - There's enough time to release the 4th trapdoor after the other 3 have gone through, so there's no need to scroll & fiddle. The original solution for the middle (under the chain swinger) was to stick an arrow in the ceiling and bridge into it, as at the time I didn't think of firing an arrow straight down. Because it's an obscure trick, I left the platformer in.
Sports 5 - Sometimes the level name is a clue, in this case there was meant to be 2 workers (and to enforce it I had to limit the skills to only 1 attempt at releasing the crowd). That was one of my best ideas for a level (re-using the trampoline-over-a-pit trick from Circus 9), glad to hear you liked it.
Regarding the rock climber turning round at the arrow, the level was originally designed to introduce that little quirk, so it was familiar when it was part of a puzzle in a later level...but later removed it from said puzzle. (it's so counter-intuitive)
There'll be another build soon (with a couple of Polar fixes and the rest of the metal trick that you noted), but I'll probably wait to see if anything else needs fixing in there.
Sports 6 - I think that's my fault for not making it obvious that the pole vault is done at the start...although that cheesy backroute is still there too. I think I can sort it though.
Sports 7 - There appears to be several solutions for each puzzle in there...some I can block, others I can't. (at least I can preserve the main puzzle, ie. the pole vault)
And now onto the next build:
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Version 13.9 has been released
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Sports 5 (Dynamic Duo) - lengthened the runner pit near the end and added a block to ensure that the climber has to go through first. Also -3 shimmiers, to prevent both lemmings from jumping there & back across the water. (these measures should make it a bit tighter)
Sports 6 (A Mountain to Climb) - reworked the top area, to make the opening puzzle more obvious. Also added metal down the shaft to fix a backroute.
Sports 7 (The Gulf in Class) - slight changes to the first 2 areas, to disable and re-enable certain solutions.
Shadow 10 (Pockets of Resistance) - slightly enlarged the central building and lined it with metal, to fix a very clever backroute. Also shortened the hanging building and moved the clouds to maintain the gap.
Cavelem 2 (Land vs. Sea vs. Air) - added metal to the top ledge, put a hole in the basin, changed a few skills to prevent backroutes.
Cavelem 4 (Ruined Temple) - removed some rock at the temple exit, -2 builders, +1 stacker. (this increases the difficulty slightly)
Cavelem 5 (Lem of the Dump) - more changes to prevent shortcutting.
Space 8 (Beam Me Somewhere Shotty) - removed the airlock by the trapdoor, -2 builders, +1 glue pourer. (this makes it more difficult and more appropriate for it's slot)
Space 9 (Space Glue Factory) - minor terrain changes for easier execution.
Polar 2 (Piste Off) - added metal underneath the top area and reworked the bottom to fix backroutes.
Polar 3 (Icy Races) - replaced the leftmost water with a pit and slope, +1 flamethrower, -1 stacker. (changing the solution slightly)
Sports 8 - I knew there'd still be a way to break it...in this case by mining high enough to hit the wall and turn him round (the idea was to prevent the climber rescuing his own trapdoor, by making it so that the runner from the other trapdoor has to come down and do it). That can be sorted with a metal block, albeit at the cost of making that miner fairly precise. (it is a miner though, and the terrain tells you where to place it)
Sports 9 - The place you failed at was the runner and the loop...he doesn't need to do either. Once he's gone inside and turned the 2nd valve off/on again, he can stay there until the climber from below has gone back up to turn the 1st valve on again. Then he mines out and goes over to turn off the 1st valve one last time.
The runner is actually redundant atm (he's meant to be used for the platforms), so I think I'll alter the top section to make him needed (removing the 3rd climber too). Either that or remove the runner altogether, which I'm a bit reluctant to do. (as it only appears in this tribe)
Sports 10 - given it's one of "those" levels, I will offer a little advice when you play it...once the bottom is safe, sort the exit out first. (it'll take a few goes to learn it)