Lemmings Challenges

[Proxima]

Never mind, I look at the level at the Lemmings Solution and find that they don't even give you any diggers or miners, so forget about Tricky 9.

Huh?

Tricky 9 gives you 20 of everything.

[ccexplore]

No, earlier I was wondering whether the glitch for the builderless solution to Tricky 9 can be applied on Crazy 20.  Because LemSteven mentioned diggers and miners and I haven't studied the level in detail before, I didn't realize there are no miners nor diggers on Crazy 20.  That's all.

Incidentally, are there any hidden icicles on that level?  Looking at the picture it seems like 12 builders should suffice for 100%.

[LemSteven]

No, earlier I was wondering whether the glitch for the builderless solution to Tricky 9 can be applied on Crazy 20. &#A0;Because LemSteven mentioned diggers and miners and I haven't studied the level in detail before, I didn't realize there are no miners nor diggers on Crazy 20. &#A0;That's all.

Incidentally, are there any hidden icicles on that level? &#A0;Looking at the picture it seems like 12 builders should suffice for 100%.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking when I made my original post -- I forgot that the level doesn't give you any miners or diggers.

There are no hidden icicles that I know of, and I see that the picture on The Lemmings Solution uses 12 bridges.  I needed a total of 5 builders to control the crowd, but I also took a more efficient route than the one pictured on The Lemmings Solution, reducing the number by two.  It is always a possibility that I did not find the optimal route, though.

Also, my solution also did not use any blockers.  It may be possible to save a bridge or two if you can somehow place two blockers and then bash underneath them to releace them later on.  This would require a lot of precision, if it is possible at all.

I'd try out the level again and see if I could lower the number, but I just went off to school this morning, and I won't be back home until Friday night.

[ccexplore]

It wasn't meant to be 100%, but knowing you, you will find a way to get 100% with only nine builders

You are clairvoyant. I just did exactly that (100% w/ 9 builders) on the SNES.

This makes it almost certain that I will be able to do it on the PC also.  The Mac I'll have to check to see.

I used the Wild 15 glitch plus a trick which is a borderline glitch (but not quite a glitch).  The Wild 15 glitch is probably not necessary; with very good timing, you should be able to do that part glitch-free.  It's that other trick/borderline glitch, an essential move to the solution, that I need to check on the Mac.

[ccexplore]

To avoid confusion, note that the 9-builder 100% solution for Mayhem 25 as mentioned above does use floaters.  I haven't worked on floaterless 100% solution yet.

Also, it turns out I can improve it to:

Mayhem 25: save 100% with no more than 8 builders (floaters still allowed)

Again I've only verified it on the SNES, though it's likely to work on the PC.  Can't say much about the Mac version until I've actually tried it.

It's basically a slight modification of the 9-builder solution.

[ccexplore]

I'd try out the level again and see if I could lower the number

You should, since I've now confirmed the 12-builder 100% solution on the PC.  Actually, I am truly shocked that you missed this solution!  It's pretty much the most straightforward 100% solution imaginable, and aside from maybe 2 or 3 places where a slight bit of precision is needed, it's not too difficult to execute either.  And it doesn't use any blockers either, in fact, using blockers brings absolutely 0 improvement to the solution.  I suggest paying more attention to the terrain.

I would actually consider this solution a starting point for challenges.  I'll now take a look and see whether I can get it down to 11 builders, which should be the minimum for the method this solution uses.

[ccexplore]

I'll now take a look and see whether I can get it down to 11 builders, which should be the minimum for the method this solution uses.

Now confirmed on the PC.  In fact, now it's my turn to feel slightly stupid.  What I had in mind when I said 11 builders earlier turned out to be unnecessarily complicated; a very simple modification of the 12-builder solution yields a 100% 11-builder solution which is just as easy to execute as the 12-builder solution.  Still glitch-free and no need for blockers.

And I'm almost 100% positive that it will work on the Mac, barring some radical terrain differences.

[ccexplore]

And I'm almost 100% positive that it will work on the Mac, barring some radical terrain differences.

Now confirmed, 100% on Crazy 20 on the Mac, with no more than 11 builders.

[ccexplore]

Alternatively, save 50% (the minimum) using only 8 builders.

I verified on both the Mac and the PC that you can save the minimum using no more than 7 builders.

Glitch-free solution, although I do need to use a blocker here.

[ccexplore]

Mayhem 25: save 100% with no more than 8 builders (floaters still allowed)

Again I've only verified it on the SNES, though it's likely to work on the PC. &#A0;Can't say much about the Mac version until I've actually tried it.

I finally pseudo-verified that you can save 100% with no more than 8 builders on the Mac also.  "Pseudo-verified" because I verified all the key moves independently, but haven't got around to completing the entire solution in one go yet.

It's very tricky on the Mac because it turns out while the trick/borderline glitch does work on the Mac, due to some subtle difference with the terrain-removal mask of the basher, I need to change the setup a little.  In fact, I went thru about 2 or 3 modified setups and was almost ready to give up, but I finally found one that does just what I need.  That's why I settled for pseudo-verification, since it took long enough to find that setup already, I don't want to waste more time for getting the complete, successful run.

[ccexplore]

One other thing of note:  like the Windows version and unlike the DOS version, on the Mac version, you can stretch equally far building to the left as to the right.

This has some important implications for Mayhem 29 for example.  My 77/80 solution that does not build west from the starting platform implicitly used the underlying difference in builder-stretching in order to work correctly, so there's a good chance it won't work on the Mac.  On the other hand, since you can stretch your bridges further even when building to the left, it could well be the case that the 77/80 solution that does build west could work on the Mac despite the water.

It looks to be that way.  I've just verified that you have enough builders to do the "build west" solution on the Mac, despite the water, because of the ability to stretch your builders equally far building left as building right.

I haven't verified the solution in full though, so this is not a total guarantee that the solution is really possible, but it is very likely to be.

One nice thing about the Mac version of the build-west solution, if it works, is that it would be actually glitch-free, unlike the DOS version or the Amiga version of the solution where you need to dig thru some steel.

[LemSteven]

I have some ideas as to where I might be able to lower the number of builders on Crazy 20. &#A0;When I did my 15-builder solution, I didn't have time to search for more efficient routes. &#A0;Anyway, ccexplore, you're right that I should have seen a better route.  Still, 15 builders is much better than my previous record, which is over 20.

Meanwhile, I found what is probably the most disturbing glitch solution yet:

Wild 9 -- Pass the level without using any skills at all!

It is pretty obvious what I did here. &#A0;It's just disturbing that the level can be so easy. &#A0;The worst part is, the problem can be fixed by simply placing the top entrance farther left. &#A0;I know for sure that this one cannot be superceded, so don't even try.

Btw, I've only confirmed this on the PC-DOS version, and it barely works. &#A0;Terrain or timing differences might make this impossible in other versions.

[Conway]

Meanwhile, I found what is probably the most disturbing glitch solution yet:

Wild 9 -- Pass the level without using any skills at all!

 I used that glitch in two of my levels.  

[ccexplore]

Meanwhile, I found what is probably the most disturbing glitch solution yet:

Wild 9 -- Pass the level without using any skills at all!

It is pretty obvious what I did here. &#A0;It's just disturbing that the level can be so easy. &#A0;The worst part is, the problem can be fixed by simply placing the top entrance farther left. &#A0;I know for sure that this one cannot be superceded, so don't even try.

Ah, so we finally have an official level where that glitch actually makes a difference.

I'm sure they would've gotten rid of the glitch if they know about it, but clearly they didn't know.  Though, as far as I can tell, the glitch only works on the PC version and nothing else.

[Shvegait]

I thought this glitch was also shown to work in "No Problemming!" (Crazy 11) Although, yes, it doesn't make a difference here. I mean.. it doesn't even have a puzzle *really*, and it doesn't make anything easier. So.. ignore this comment