Lix Community Level Set

[geoo]

Six years ago, back on the old old lemmings forum, some effort was started to gather levels from the community. The idea was to make a version of DOS Lemmings with these levels instead, and release it to a wider audience. Quite a few levels were posted, and discussion evolved, but eventually, nothing came out of it: http://www6.camanis.net.ipv4.sixxs.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/forums/?topic=1135291547

Now might be another chance, with Lix being announced to the public sometime (whenever that might be) in the future, to have such a community level pack included with it.
Not everyone can produce a full set with multiple difficulty ratings like RubiX or Clam Spammer did for Lix, so this is a good chance for those who can't (though of course also those who can, I don't mean to discourage anyone from contributing) to get their levels shown to a (hopefully) wider audience.
There seemed to be some interest in this, so I'm willing to coordinate the whole thing.

What's the plan?
I will gather levels from everyone who sends any to me, and I'll try to maintain a list with the progress.
The current list is here: http://geoo89.github.com/lixlfpack/
Once we got a decent amount of levels designed and tested and the release date approaches, during the second phase we'll try to put them in order, so we get a somewhat smooth difficulty curve.
There's no set goal for the amount of levels or difficulty ratings, we'll just see how many levels will roll in, and decide on that later.

What kind of levels?
Basically, levels of all difficulties, with one guideline: levels shouldn't use glitches, and avoid difficult timing or exact precision if possible. Both remaking existing levels and designing new ones is fine.
There's one thing though: It'd be cool to feature some of the levels from authors who aren't in the forum anymore. Lix is intended to be released under CC0 or WTFPL (basically public domain), though we can't just assume they'd be willing to waive all their rights to the levels. The question is, if we can't get a response from them when contacting, what should be done? Leave out the levels, put a note that the rights to these levels belong to their original authors, or release the entire level pack under a somewhat more restrictive license?

A note on tutorial levels: For tutorial levels (i.e. those showing off the skills and very basic features) I'll probably make a separate topic. The issue here is that the levels have to be arranged very carefully and each with the previous few levels in mind, so just making some levels and throwing them together into a difficulty rating won't cut it.
Those of the rating 0.x (basic techniques) will still depend on each other to some extent, but most prerequisites will already have been covered in the basic tutorial.

How does it work?
You can send me levels, and I'll add them to the list: http://geoo89.github.com/lixlfpack/
It's also possible to suggest some level to be remade, and I can add it to the list. In that case, you can either tell me that you're remaking the level yourself, or ask for someone to do it, then I'll leave the list entry "redesign" empty until someone is assigned to it, the status will be "not started" until I receive a level file.
When you send me a level please tell me what to fill in in the table. I can set the status to "in progress" to indicate that you're still going to majorly rework the level and people shouldn't test it yet, though I'd prefer to get complete levels and reserve the "in progress" status mostly to myself.
Give an opinion whether the design is ugly/incomplete/lacks decoration and needs definite improvement ("."), whether it's ok but could perhaps be improved ("?"), or whether you consider it final. Give the same data for the level name.
Indicate how extensively you have tested backroutes, and if there are any known backroutes that still need to be fixed.
Finally, give a rough estimate how difficult you think the level is, 0.x means basic tricks, 4.x means really hard (likely hardest rating in the end), around 2-2.5 probably means something like Crazy/Mayhem. It's just to help to order the levels later, and give an estimate what kind of levels are still needed.

Put the levels in levels/single/lixlfpack/ so we all got them in the same place and the replays will match (update: however for level posted here in this topic, but not on the list yet, put them in levels/single/lixlfpack/wip/). For levels that have the status "done", especially the harder ones or if you think you found a backroute, send the author your replay and post a note in this topic. Generally, if you have some suggestions/comments on the levels, post it here, I'll try to read it and update the list accordingly if there's some data to be updated.
You can send levels/replay to me via PM/IRC/IM/e-mail (if you don't know my e-mail address, ask me via PM), preferably in batched updates to minimize my work.
Once a level is considered to have a decent design and name ("X"), and is basically backroute-proof ("9"), I'll move it from the "WIP levels" list to the "Complete levels" list.

You can get the levels using the respective download link, get it bundled as zip from github (https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/zipball/gh-pages), or pull the lastest version using git from my git repository git@github.com:geoo89/lixlfpack.git EDIT: or, of course, attach them to your post.

Suggestions/comments on the general procedure are welcome.

How can you contribute?

• Remake existing levels, design new levels, or suggest levels you'd like to see remade
• Backroute testing
• Suggestions for renaming, or improving the design of levels, especially if still noted as incomplete in the list
• Commenting on data in list (e.g. if you have a vastly different opinion on the difficulty, or done some extensive backroute testing)
• General feedback

Let's see how many will roll in!

Quick Links:
Lix homepage: http://asdfasdf.ethz.ch/~simon/
Level list: http://geoo89.github.com/lixlfpack/
Latest version of the level bundle (.zip): https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/zipball/gh-pages
Date of last update for each level: https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack
Spreadsheet in xls format: https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/blob/gh-pages/lixlfpack.xls?raw=true

[chaos_defrost]

When I have access to my old Cheapo set backup I'll go through it and look for levels to re-make, and also levels to modify to include Lix-exclusive skills. I've got a couple done already, will send once I clean them up a bit.

[ccexplore]

Not sure how much time I have to participate, but I would love to try remaking (or get someone to do so) the many Cheapo levels that the person known variously as Ahribar, Repton or Proxima has made, way back when Cheapo was actually popular.

[ccexplore]

Glaring omission that nowhere on this thread is there a URL for downloading Lix. I realize it's pre-release and all, but still.

[Simon]

The download link is to be shared around freely. geoo has added it to the bottom of the initial post.

I'd just refrain from announcing it on larger sites yet. That's usually a one-time possibility, so the game should be in good shape all-around first.

-- Simon

[mobius]

Suggestions/comments on the general procedure are welcome.

How can you contribute?

• Remake existing levels, design new levels, or suggest levels you'd like to see remade
• Backroute testing
• Suggestions for renaming, or improving the design of levels, especially if still noted as incomplete in the list
• Commenting on data in list (e.g. if you have a vastly different opinion on the difficulty, or done some extensive backroute testing)
• General feedback

when you say remake existing levels do you mean levels from any of the regular lemmings games?

I volunteer to make a few (remakes or my own whatever). I can do easerish levels.

[Luis]

Maybe he meant to make a level that already exist harder. Or it could be making remakes of an existing level with the PSP/PS2 editor, because Lemmings has different graphics in the PSP, like you can see here: http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=563.0

[ccexplore]

Remakes of levels from the official games may be problematic for this particular project, due to intellectual property concerns.  You can reuse the underlying puzzle concepts, but you'll want to deviate from the original graphics and even level layouts as much as you can.

[finlay]

I'm tempted to make one of my levels, but I am having trouble working out the level editor, so I won't do it today.

[chaos_defrost]

Remaking would primarily be done from other author's levels, not the originals. I've been re-making some of my older levels.

And yea, speaking of remakes, if anyone knows how to get in touch with, say, Proxima or whoever made that "Why Bother?" Cheapo pack (There's a couple levels in that I thought were brilliant that I'd like to remake) to get permission to remake the levels, that'd be awesome.

[ccexplore]

I was working on contacting him, or at least I said I was. I have at least 2-3 email addresses from old emails in my Yahoo account that I was going to try, and will do so within the next 24 hours if I'm not distracted yet again.

I suppose you can always first try PMing him on this forum, which should also trigger an email alert to him.

[geoo]

when you say remake existing levels do you mean levels from any of the regular lemmings games?

No. For one there's the issue ccexplore mentioned, then people who have played through the original games shouldn't have to go through the same stuff again, and finally most levels from the original game (at least DOS lemmings) wouldn't cut it quality-wise anyway.

The idea is a bit like, making a best-of from the levels this community has produced, and supplement it with new levels specifically for the project. Feel free to make some easier levels, they are necessary as well. Just avoid levels that are tedious (like in DOS original Lemmings, though from the levels I've seen from you, you aren't prone to that), and try to avoid use of excessive precision/timing in your solutions.

I'm tempted to make one of my levels, but I am having trouble working out the level editor, so I won't do it today.

Please report on the issues you're having with it, so perhaps it can be improved so it's easier to get into working with it.

And yea, speaking of remakes, if anyone knows how to get in touch with, say, Proxima or whoever made that "Why Bother?" Cheapo pack (There's a couple levels in that I thought were brilliant that I'd like to remake) to get permission to remake the levels, that'd be awesome.

Yeah, I was thinking of these too (Why bother/The real Mr. Lemming/Here's where I draw the line), they were by The Purpletrator/drumnbach/Ben Hunter (I think it's only 2 people, one with two aliases) though. Searching for "Ben Hunter" Lemmings yields one result on facebook, which might be him, but I'm not registered on facebook so I cannot contact him.

If someone could give contacting him a try, that'd be nice.
Same thing with Ahribar/Proxima, would be nice if ccx could do it at some point, his Cheapo levels were excellent, and he's also really good with decoration.
I'll try to contact tseug soon and see who else made some nice levels (feel encouraged to search further as well).
If we fail to contact them, I think it's probably fair assuming they'd be fine with having the levels included and credit given, though not under CC0. What do you think, perhaps we can discuss this a little further.

Oh, and as the level list grows larger, feel encouraged to backroute-test and rate difficulty.

btw, I'm hoping to do some additions to my terrain styles soon, if there's anything you'd like to see, drop me a note. One new style will be abstract, so anything goes.

[finlay]

I have Proxima/Ahribar on Facebook. I could message him if you like.

[ccexplore]

Oh cool, please do.  Thanks.

[finlay]

OK, done. One of those awkward messages where I'm trying to ask how he is (because we are basically friends who haven't seen each other in a few years) and also expose the ulterior motive. (I just straightforwardly went "I have an ulterior motive, but it's as good an excuse as any to start a conversation and catch up")

Incidentally, I mentioned that I was having trouble with the editor – specifically, is there a guide anywhere to what the buttons mean? Most of them are unintuitive icons. I was thinking of remaking this level of mine:

although I seem to remember that Lix doesn't support 1-way walls yet. But if anyone wants to try and adapt it, feel free. I'm not going to lay claim to it copyright-wise or anything.

That said, I should probably mention that I might not be posting for a while, because things are starting to happen in my life again – basically, I've got a job teaching English in Tokyo which starts next week, so I'm leaving Edinburgh today and the UK on Saturday, via London. So I wouldn't expect any levels out of me. (That said, I will still have internet when I'm there, it just depends how much free time I have, and how much of that I devote to Lemmings – and in actual fact I'll probably still be checking the board)