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Offline Minim

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Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« on: October 01, 2009, 02:33:35 PM »
Christmas comes early! :D And what we will eventually have as a gift is a bunch of reviews by our users.

Yes, this is the place to go for reviewing Holiday lemmings levels from the 1994 and the 1993 version. I will start with Flurry, then Blitz. After that, we will get through Frost and Hail. On those levels we will have to do a comparison to see which level is better. Follow this link below to see where the images come from.

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/resources/holiday/
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Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2009, 05:44:31 PM »
OK. Let's start.

Flurry 1 - Climbing to the Top!


Lemmings: 10
100% to be saved
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 50

Skills: 20 of each

Good: Good short starter level for the game. Uses only one type of skill to complete.
Bad: With all types of skills available for a first level, it can be confusing for new players.
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Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 08:38:53 PM »
Flurry 2 - Floating Lemming Flurry


Lemmings: 20
Save: 15 (75%)
Time: 8 minutes
Release rate: 25
Skills: 25 of each

Good: Another quick and easy level to ease players into the level set. The "25" theme is nice, especially considering how Christmas is on the 25th day of the month.

Bad: Why aren't there 25 lemmings as well? Not only does this break with the theme, but it leaves unusable skills as well. The overall design is a bit bland too.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 08:53:57 PM »
My goodness, I thought everyone forgot about this review thread but hey, I kept my temper and now this thread is back on top!

Flurry 3 - Holiday Mining


Lemmings: 80
Save: 50 (62%)
Time: 7 minutes
Release rate: 40
Skills: 30 of each

Good: You can lose 30 bombers and still win the level :P A nice bright colourful level with Xmas lights at the ceiling...

Bad: ...but there is too much on the outside of the level, not really as much of a challenge compared to the last one (or two).
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 09:05:48 PM »
Flurry 4 - Lemming Tracks in the Snow!


Lemmings: 50
Save: 45 (90%)
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 25
Skills: 20 of each

Good: I dunno, cute level name maybe?  And level area is more filled out than the previous level.

Bad: Level layout and solution is way too similar to the previous level.  Mixing the use of non-snow terrain with snow terrain looks unnatural.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 09:19:18 PM »
I dunno, cute level name maybe?

Cute? ??? It's quite a big level so...

Flurry 5 - Christmas South of the equator


Lemmings: 75
Save: 25 (33%)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 40
Skills: 20 of each

Good: Lots of solutions, smart scenery matches the title showing a hot christmas and no snow. At least it doesn't work with two bashers anymore. Steps up the plate with floaters not enough for the requirement.

Bad: Still isn't much into this level, too many lemmings in all honesty.
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Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2009, 10:01:30 AM »
My goodness, I thought everyone forgot about this review thread but hey, I kept my temper and now this thread is back on top!

You've learned a valuable lesson.  :)


Flurry 6 - Lemming Snowfall


Lemmings: 80
Save: 40 (50%)
Time: 9 minutes
Release rate: 20
Skills: 10 of each

Good: Tough looking obstacle and not many skills (compared to earlier levels at least) to get past it. Good use of the lights as decoration - unlike level 3 where they extend across the whole map.

Bad: A bit too much plain walking for my liking. And, of course, there's the matter of the missing steel objects...

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2009, 05:51:47 PM »
Release rate: 2

It's not 2, it's 20 (even though the RR doesn't make a difference to the solution).
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Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2009, 09:39:40 PM »
Argh, I know I typed 20...

I blame the shoddy keyboard - I'm typing this from my other computer (that doesn't have Lemmings on it). This might yet be a permanent move, since this computer is much faster. I just noticed I made a daft typo in another thread yesterday too.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2009, 10:03:12 PM »
Argh, I know I typed 20...

I blame the shoddy keyboard - I'm typing this from my other computer (that doesn't have Lemmings on it). This might yet be a permanent move, since this computer is much faster. I just noticed I made a daft typo in another thread yesterday too.
Apologies for being too literal. :-[

My laptop has the "H" key mucking around... and the enter key doesn't work either. At the very least I'm pleased using my proper computer. OK, let's review another level.

Flurry 7 - Lemming Snowjourn



Lemmings: 50
50% to be saved (25)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 40
Skills: 20 of each

Good: Good for climbing.
Bad: This tedious level is a joke. Derivative to levels 3 and 4, and they try to make it harder without a real challenge, no objects other than start and finish. Too dark out in the open (That gets me scared all the time).

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Offline Dullstar

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2009, 10:16:52 PM »
What brand is your keyboard, Clam?

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2009, 11:34:10 PM »
It would appear to be a Genius. Although I think the real problem is that I've been using it for ages (before I got back into Lemmings) and I played some RTS games... and those tend to be quite rough on the keyboard.

But before this gets dragged too far off topic...


Flurry 8 - Vacation in Gemland


Lemmings: 50
Save: 50 (100%)
Time: 3 minutes
Release rate: 1
Skills: 1 climber, 8 builders, 3 bashers, 2 diggers

Good: Some variety of methods available for clearing the obstacles. A refreshing break from the repetitive Christmas graphics.

Bad: Wrecks the difficulty curve worse than just about any other Lemmings level. Plus you have to use a hero lemming to complete the level - which leaves the other 49 in a tight space, from which you have to click one that's facing the right way. And if you don't know the trick, that's not fun.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2009, 08:54:41 PM »
Flurry 9 - A block from home


Lemmings: 80
Save: 75 (93%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 20
Skills: 10 of each

Good: A couple of ways to get round this one. A quite bright looking level as well. Works ideally for challenges.

Bad: All the snowballs piled together doesn't make it look great. Maybe too short for a holiday lemmings level.
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Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2009, 08:01:06 AM »
Hey, I have some free time to do this now. So... *bump*

Flurry 10 - 32 Lemmings Below Zero


Lemmings: 32
Save: 25 (78%)
Time: 7 minutes
Release rate: 32
Skills: 32 of each

Good: Nice theme based around the title. Wide variety of solutions, helped by the fact there's enough climbers for every lemming.

Bad: It's... so... looooong..... You know there's a problem with length when it takes more than one Shift+F for the lemmings to walk to the exit.

(Shift+F = one-minute frameskip in Lemmix)

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2009, 04:00:42 PM »
Although I agree with the bad point, you seem to like Flurry 10 more than I do. ??? I tagged that previous level under my "Bottom 5" list.

Flurry 11 - At home in a cave


Lemmings: 80
Save: 78 (97%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 10
Skills: 10 climbers, 10 floaters, 10 bombers, 10 builders, 5 bashers, 5 miners, 5 diggers.

Good: Timer is a little strict to the unwary. Good variety of skills.
Bad: More like a harder version of the 2nd level without much difference. The cave is too long and poorly designed. Not very much is included in this level.
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Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2009, 11:08:56 PM »
Flurry 12 - Presents of Mind


Lemmings: 80
Save: 77 (96%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 50
Skills: 5 builders, 10 bashers

Good: Simple multitasking level, many different solutions despite only two types of skills being available. Nice contrast between left and right sides of the level.

Bad: In a normal solution, the first two skills need to be assigned one second apart, on opposite sides of the map, if you want to avoid losing lemmings. That's not fun multitasking :(

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2009, 03:57:38 PM »
Flurry 13 - Yo-yo Lem lem


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 1
Skills: 10 climbers, 2 builders, 1 miner

Good: A fair bit of scenery below.
Bad: Too much unnecessary walking, the miner doesn't play a part, ugly looking snow design which feels like the level is being rushed, a bad and uninspiring title.
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Offline danparker

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2009, 04:50:57 AM »
I've played the Lemmings Christmas levels around 9 years ago when my father downloaded the demos for me. I kind of liked these levels and I even drew my own Christmas levels. Around 8 years ago, I somehow got the full 1993 game. And recently, I got the full 1994 game. And yeah, I had some difficulty on some of the levels. If only there were a 1995 game.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2009, 06:03:41 PM »
Not sure about that, but we could make a 2009 game if we work fast enough...

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2010, 01:31:21 AM »
Maybe we can get these done by this Christmas? :-\

Flurry 14 - Marshmallow Land


Lemmings: 80
Save: 75 (93%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 10
Skills: 10 of each

Good: Cute graphics, I guess (if you consider dogs cute, that is - I don't). Interesting variety of obstacles.

Bad: Too easy this far through the set. The dog is sloppily thrown together with multiples of the same terrain piece.

Offline GigaLem

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2010, 12:58:02 AM »
7 Days left til Christmas

Flurry 15 - Head for the hills

Woo hoo i did it
Release rate:20
Skills:
Climber,Floaters,Bombers,Blockers,And Builders:20
Time:3 minutes
Good:Well The Hills part is self-Explanitory also nice design
Bad:A bit Too easy no effort at all!

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2010, 04:58:10 AM »
Flurry 16 - The Long Way Around


Lemmings: 50
Save: 45 (90%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 20
Skills: 5 climbers, 5 floaters, 5 bombers, 5 blockers, 5 builders, 3 bashers

Good: A nice jump in difficulty at the end of the set - unlike the very nasty spike in the middle of the set. :-\ The need to put some space between the lemmings at the end adds an extra twist (considering you can't easily block/bomb on the hill).

Bad: Might have you reaching for the ruler (or the editor ;)) to check the splat distance. The steel section looks a bit shoddy - a straight line of steel blocks down the middle of the snow column would look much nicer. The tiny gap before the exit is a nasty trap, right at the end of the level.

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2011, 09:57:24 AM »
Well, we failed again :'(. Next Christmas maybe? Or should we try a more modest target and go for the Christmas after that :P

Blitz 1 - Oogilemming!


Lemmings: 25
Save: 22 (88%)
Time: 9 minutes
Release rate: 80
Skills: 25 climbers, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 15 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger

Good: A tough looking level to begin the difficult set, much like Steel Works. Good decorative terrain, in what little space is left to decorate.

Bad: Just like the last level, judging splat distance is a pain. Long walks are a pain too... Also, the starting platform is awkward, and really not necessary.

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2011, 02:32:48 AM »
(I presume this thread has an implied "48 hour" rule, or similar)

Blitz 2 - Lemmings Up High


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 20
Skills: 11 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger

Good: A test of accuracy, with a surprise twist that you actually have to start building very close to the entrance.

Bad: One of the more tedious builds you'll find in the Lemmings games... especially considering you probably won't get it first time.

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2011, 01:09:56 AM »
It would appear to be a Genius. Although I think the real problem is that I've been using it for ages (before I got back into Lemmings) and I played some RTS games... and those tend to be quite rough on the keyboard.

But before this gets dragged too far off topic...


Flurry 8 - Vacation in Gemland


Lemmings: 50
Save: 50 (100%)
Time: 3 minutes
Release rate: 1
Skills: 1 climber, 8 builders, 3 bashers, 2 diggers

Good: Some variety of methods available for clearing the obstacles. A refreshing break from the repetitive Christmas graphics.

Bad: Wrecks the difficulty curve worse than just about any other Lemmings level. Plus you have to use a hero lemming to complete the level - which leaves the other 49 in a tight space, from which you have to click one that's facing the right way. And if you don't know the trick, that's not fun.
I've just been on the guide page on tle.vaarties.nl and it has a completely different level here! What gives? Did they just decide to make a new level here for the PC version or something?

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2011, 02:47:12 AM »
The solutions in TLE are nearly all based on the Amiga version, and for some reason the Amiga version has a different level than the PC version.  I have no idea which level are in other versions outside of Amiga and PC (if they even exist for other platforms), or why there were two different levels in the first place.

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2011, 01:48:16 PM »
I dunno about other platforms. Xmas lemmings definitely exists for the Mac but I think they only made one of the 4 level demo versions. Xmas 91 or something. These levels are from 93... Wikipedia says that they released it for the Mac in 93 and 94 as well. Now I want to find a copy.

Edit: Found it! (Yes!!) I can't play it on this computer, but I have checked the walkthrough/guide file that was provided with the game and it confirms that the Mac version uses "Vacation in Gemland" rather than the Amiga level.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2011, 04:37:07 PM »
I have attempted to make a close enough copy of the level "Clouds of Lemmings" shown in the attachment. (With a few extra clouds for title relevance :P) Anyway, back to the reviews.

Blitz 3 - Check your Hints!


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 20
Skills: 1 climber, 5 floaters, 5 blockers, 1 builder, 1 digger

Good: Can be exciting at first as it's a mystery as to which is the correct exit.
Bad: Can be a lot of walking to even reach the appropriate exit. This level is more like a waste a time once you have found the exit.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2011, 02:28:52 AM »
Hmm, given Blitz 3's title is "check your hints!", I have to wonder if there actually is some hint for the correct exit in the game manual or something that comes with the box? ???

Blitz 4 - Santus Lemmingus



Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 30
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 5 bombers, 2 blockers, 1 builder, 1 basher, 2 diggers

Good:  Not too many skills given (especially due to the 100% save requirement), so you can't just directly do the standard "block off everyone except the hero" approach.  Few skills also mean fewer steps to execute.
Bad:  Long walking to the exit.  Level design a bit bland with all the exciting eye candy far, far to the right of the exit.  The flat tops of the pillar with a drop in the middle looks ugly and ill-fitting with the rest of the snowy terrain.

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2011, 01:50:36 AM »
I dunno about other platforms. Xmas lemmings definitely exists for the Mac but I think they only made one of the 4 level demo versions. Xmas 91 or something. These levels are from 93... Wikipedia says that they released it for the Mac in 93 and 94 as well. Now I want to find a copy.

Edit: Found it! (Yes!!) I can't play it on this computer, but I have checked the walkthrough/guide file that was provided with the game and it confirms that the Mac version uses "Vacation in Gemland" rather than the Amiga level.
Bollocks to that – I've just played it right the way through and it seems that whoever distributed it just took any old walkthrough off the internet and didn't bother to read it or probably to play the game itself. Oh well.

So basically, the Mac version has the "original" Flurry 8 from the Amiga version as well, Clouds of Lemmings. If anyone wants to try it, I've just extracted it in LVL format and put it on the internet, so, uh, yeah! :D
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15543016/flurry08.lvl

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2011, 09:02:13 AM »
Blitz 5 - It Came Upon a Lemnight Clear


Lemmings: 80
Save: 75 (93%)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 1
Skills: 10 builders, 1 of everything else

Good: Um... pass? :-\

Bad: Another hero level where one lemming clears a path for the rest. Having a climber available makes the level too easy. Also there's the "pick a lemming facing the right way in a crowd" thing, which I maintain is a bad thing even though I know how to do it :P

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2011, 05:02:37 PM »
How do you do it on the PC version? I can only do it on the mac because the Lemmings are higher-res and have eyes, so you can tell which way they're facing...

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2011, 09:20:13 PM »
There are a couple of ways, actually.

- When multiple lemmings are under the cursor, priority goes to the most recently entered lemming. So, if there are still lemmings entering the level (which at RR1 with 80 lemmings, there should be), you can easily grab one just as it hits the ground. Otherwise, you can look for a lemming that appears to be drawn over all the others, though it's often not easy to pick out the last one.

- Start building from the far left of the holding area, as far left as you can more the cursor while still catching the lemmings. Because of the way lemmings turn around at walls, this will always pick one facing to the right. The downside is, you can't choose where to start the builder, since it's determined by the terrain. (In this case, you'd need an extra builder or two to get out.)

- With a bit of forethought, you could build a bridge that doesn't quite reach out of the holding area, so that any lemmings walking on the bridge will be facing the right way when you need them.

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2011, 12:01:52 AM »
There are a couple of ways, actually.

- When multiple lemmings are under the cursor, priority goes to the most recently entered lemming. So, if there are still lemmings entering the level (which at RR1 with 80 lemmings, there should be), you can easily grab one just as it hits the ground. Otherwise, you can look for a lemming that appears to be drawn over all the others, though it's often not easy to pick out the last one.
Yeah, basically the way I know, but on the Mac you can tell at a glance which way the top lemming is facing because they're drawn with eyes. I don't know an equivalent way to do this on the DOS version or any other version I've tried, so I just end up guessing.

I played right through Holiday Lemmings yesterday (it's relatively easy, and monotonous), and on the many levels like this I would just go RR99 because then it's even easier to see what way you're going to pick because all the final few lemmings will be facing in the same direction... if that makes sense. :P

And I knew about the other two. They don't always work though, especially if you need to conserve builders.

Also, just to be slightly more on-topic, wtf is "Blitz"? Isn't it "Blizzard"?

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2011, 06:24:06 AM »
I think I can see why this thread has fallen down the page... when you have levels like this one:

Blitz 6 - A Single Lemming...


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 70
Skills: 5 bombers, 5 blockers, 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 digger

Good: Might look challenging... for about two seconds.

Bad: Words fail me. If the single basher from the right isn't the intended solution (really? this far into the "harder" rating?) then this has to be the most ludicrous backroute ever. :sick:

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2011, 02:39:02 PM »
Blitz 7 - Break on through


Lemmings: 60
Save: 55 (91%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 30
Skills: 12 Floaters, 25 bombers, 19 builders, 93 bashers.

Good: Interesting pattern of skills. This level really does challenge you into going up without losing too many lemmings, with a higher position of the exit, limited time, and blockerless bombers too.
Bad: Are you sure you need 93 bashers to go up the wall? I am absolutely sure it can be done with less than that.
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Offline DragonsLover

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2011, 06:47:35 PM »
The reason why the amount of skills is set that way (if nobody knew already) is because it shows the Christmas date : 12-25-1993.

Oh sure, perhaps it would have been better to have 12 climbers, 25 floaters, 19 blockers and 93 builders? Or 12 bombers, 25 blockers, 19 bashers and 93 miners? ;P
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Offline Simon

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2011, 07:01:57 PM »
To aid the player with such building, the miner tends to be best. The first swing is executed extremely fast, and it removes a considerable amount of overhead terrain. :) But 1993 doesn't look nice anymore when the digits are on non-adjacient buttons.

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Offline DoubleU

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2011, 11:05:19 PM »
Blitz 5 - It Came Upon a Lemnight Clear
[image snipped]

Lemmings: 80
Save: 75 (93%)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 1
Skills: 10 builders, 1 of everything else

Good: Um... pass? :-\

Bad: Another hero level where one lemming clears a path for the rest. Having a climber available makes the level too easy. Also there's the "pick a lemming facing the right way in a crowd" thing, which I maintain is a bad thing even though I know how to do it :P
"Pass"?  Can't you say something good about it?  Myself, I'd say it's a nice little bite-sized, symmetric level.  And what's wrong with the forcing-a-direction problem?  Is it too easy or too hard?  If the latter, I know how to make it easier.

And finlay, "blitz" means "lightning" in German.  Here, it's just a sloppy abbreviation for Blizzard because the real name wouldn't fit.  (Or not, but it makes better sense than saying "lightning" fits here.)

I'll review Blizzard 8 (or "Blitz" 8, I guess, but outside of here I'll call it Blizzard) if someone can direct me to your source for the stats and maps.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2011, 11:47:10 PM »
What's wrong with respecting that everyone will have their own opinions about levels?  Seriously, I think you're taking the reviews way too seriously.

Also, my understanding is that the UK release versions really do refer to the rating as Blitz, or something like that.  It is not merely because we are all lazy and don't want to spell Blizzard.

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2011, 05:24:13 AM »
"Pass"?  Can't you say something good about it?  Myself, I'd say it's a nice little bite-sized, symmetric level.

Okay, fair call; the review format does call for posters to say something good about each level. So what is good about this level? Maybe it has a good range of skills to work with. Beating it without climbers or with as few builders as possible makes for a good challenge. The title is a classic Lemmings-style reference (replace some part of a well-known phrase with 'lemming', or derivative). But these are minor things, and overall I consider it a poor level.

You can look up the level stats on the Lemmings Encyclopedia, or if you want to actually play it, hunt around the web for the DOS version of the game (run through DOSBox, or the Lemmix editor).

Offline DoubleU

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2011, 07:31:24 PM »
Blitz 8 - Presents of Mind II


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 2 minutes
Release rate: 55
Skills: 3 Builders, 2 bashers

Good: Snowballs replaced with snowmen and a small snow-mountain, which adds to the variety of the level.  Also, harder without being unfair is always a good thing.
Bad: Fewer skills to use means you have to go one way or the other, and they're not equally reasonable.  Having no expendable lemmings means you need to do some difficult multitasking this time, and that's not pleasant.  At least last time (Flurry 12) you could lose 4 and thus didn't need to jump around.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2011, 09:09:30 PM »
Blitz 9 - Lemmings: The Motion Picture


Lemmings: 80
Save: 75 (93%)
Time: 9 minutes
Release rate: 25
Skills: 2 Climbers, 1 Bomber, 30 Builders, 10 of everything else.

Good: Generous number of Builders.
Bad: Long, dark, uninspiring and unimaginative looking level, too many repetitive actions required, especially on the builders, there's just no challenge nor excitement to this level at all, particularly on the high time limit and the fact that it is not a 100%er either. The title is irrelevant compared to the looks of the level.
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Offline DoubleU

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2011, 09:48:30 PM »
[snip]
Bad: Long, dark, uninspiring and unimaginative looking level, too many repetitive actions required, especially on the builders, there's just no challenge nor excitement to this level at all, particularly on the high time limit and the fact that it is not a 100%er either. The title is irrelevant compared to the looks of the level.
As you may or may not know (I sure as heck didn't!), the title is an allusion to Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as becomes evident from the rest of the Blizzard/Blitz levels.  Before I learned that, I thought it was a sequel to Tame 19.

And if you ask me, there actually is some excitement in the sense that (gasp!) the third gap to bridge may turn back your builder, and the last gap is further past the last fall than the other gaps are!  (Okay, so it wasn't that exciting.) :P

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2011, 12:06:49 AM »
[snip]
Bad: Long, dark, uninspiring and unimaginative looking level, too many repetitive actions required, especially on the builders, there's just no challenge nor excitement to this level at all, particularly on the high time limit and the fact that it is not a 100%er either. The title is irrelevant compared to the looks of the level.
As you may or may not know (I sure as heck didn't!), the title is an allusion to Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as becomes evident from the rest of the Blizzard/Blitz levels.  Before I learned that, I thought it was a sequel to Tame 19.
holy f***. :o

I'd noticed "The Next Lemeration" and "The Final Frontier", since those are obvious Star Trek references... but not the others. I may have clocked "The Wrath of Lem", too, not sure. It's not like I've actually seen any of these films, though, that's the thing...

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2011, 12:55:11 AM »
Yeah, the whole second half of that rating are Star Trek movie titles.  There's probably some history around it (wonder if Google will yield anything?) like maybe one of the level designers just saw one of the movies, and decided throwing them into the titles would be a quick way to wrap up titling that rating with least effort, or something. :P :-\

Not sure how well these allusions translate globally though, they're relatively well known in the US (though probably not every single movie unless you're a fan of the series) but perhaps not in other locales.

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2011, 01:48:03 AM »
The games were developed here in the UK (and it's shocking how recently I discovered that it was in this very city that DMA was based (and still is under the name of Rockstar)... :-[ ). It's a fairly safe bet to say that they're known about here. But yeah, you'd only be able to actually name more than one or two (I can name "wrath of khan" and "generations" and that's it) of the films if you're actually a fan of the series. Same sort of deal. Perhaps DMA was just full of trekkies.

I used to watch Next Generation or Voyager because they were on after school at various points in my childhood. I wouldn't have called myself a fan, though; it was just something vaguely enjoyable that you could veg out in front of.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2011, 07:51:58 AM »
As Clam Spammer says, I presume this thread has an implied "48 hour" rule, or similar. I really was going to do the one after this, but I just can't seem to wait long enough for the interesting comparison part...

Blitz 10 - The Wrath Of Lem


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 20
Skills: 2 Blockers, 5 Builders, 3 Bashers, 1 Miner, 2 Diggers

Good: An 100%er, nice looking symmetrical level. Ceiling is decorated well. Forces you to use something other than a blocker to get the requirement. Time is just right.
Bad: Nothing too serious, but maybe there isn't enough to this two-entrance level, and because of this, the timer is still quite high. Maybe it would be more challenging with a higher release rate. It is in the Blitz category after all.
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Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2011, 03:53:56 AM »
Quote
I really was going to do the one after this, but I just can't seem to wait long enough for the interesting comparison part...
Tha's okay, just wait another day or so ;) (or comment on the review if someone else does it).


I'm curious as to why you still point to the time limit as a deficiency in the level, after the recent discussion about time limits. I do agree that it's quite a weak level that late in the game, but there are far better ways to up the difficulty - like the release rate, as you mentioned.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2011, 07:39:42 AM »
Quote
I really was going to do the one after this, but I just can't seem to wait long enough for the interesting comparison part...
Tha's okay, just wait another day or so ;) (or comment on the review if someone else does it).
OK then, I'll take your words for it.

Blitz 11 - The Search For Lem


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 5
Skills: 0 Floaters, 8 Builders, 1 of everything else

Good: A nice looking level, and gives players an innovative and clever new way of reaching the exit (Which involves good timing). Good idea placing the steel block in the snowdrift as that is one possible way to trap other lemmings rather than using builders. If it wasn't there, a casual player would certainly find this level impossible. Decorations are well placed.
Bad: Only that bombers are no use in a 100% level. Other than that, it is probably one of the Best Blitz levels ever. :thumbsup:
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Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2011, 08:24:58 AM »
^ This was the only level in Holiday Lemmings that gave me any grief. I didn't know the bridge-stretching technique at the time (IIRC this was many years ago), so I just thought it was outright impossible. It is interesting though that the developers seem to have discovered some new tricks in the game mechanics while making the Holiday levels (using the nuke in 'Surprise Package?' is another example).

---

Blitz 12 - The Voyage Home...


Lemmings: 80
Save: 70 (87%)
Time: 7 minutes
Release rate: 15
Skills: 2 bombers, 1 digger

Good: The normal solution is quick to execute, in terms of assigning the skills at least... You can save a bomber (and thus get a higher %) if you're observant.

Bad: One word: walking. :sick: :sick: :sick:

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2011, 01:32:55 PM »
Blitz 13 - The Final Frontier


Lemmings: 70
Save: 65 (92%)
Time: 7 minutes
Release rate: 40
Skills: 2 blockers, 9 builders, 2 diggers, 1 everything else

Good: Makes the puzzle more interesting with a big obstacle to toughen the challenge. In particular, the third cloud at the top. Luckily the exit is placed quite close to the entrance but not too close.
Bad: Trapping the lemmings is too easy at this point of the game. Once you figured out the obstacle, it has just the boring part of using the final few builders.

These are only minor issues though, because this is another solid Blitz level.
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Offline DoubleU

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2011, 04:43:16 PM »
Blitz 14 - The Undiscovered Country


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 9 minutes
Release rate: 10
Skills: 10 each bashers, miners and diggers.

Good: Hidden exit levels are always a welcome twist of a challenge.  I also like the toppled snowman on the left, and the visual explanation of the Enterprise on the right.
Bad: Hidden exit levels are only fun the first time, as the exit is never randomized, nor can be.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2011, 06:16:35 PM »
Good: Hidden exit levels are always a welcome twist of a challenge.  I also like the toppled snowman on the left, and the visual explanation of the Enterprise on the right.
Ah. So that's a starship on the right huh? That's a very interesting find, and that makes the title of that level even more relevant. 8)

Blitz 15 - The Needs of the Many...


Lemmings: 15
Save: 8 (53%)
Time: 8 minutes
Release rate: 50
Skills: 11 climbers, 11 floaters, 5 bombers, 2 builders, 1 basher

Good: A nice looking puzzle with an interesting new technique of building from a potential bomber's crater. Nice to use the old climbers and floaters again. :P Building has to be precise as well.
Bad: Maybe the fact that you can't save most of the lemmings will disappoint some players. (You'll have to lose at least 5, according to this.) Other than that, this is well designed, and a big favourite in Holiday Lemmings 1993.

Just realised, this is my 999th post. :o No wonder I'm getting active again in the forums.
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Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2011, 06:18:03 AM »
I think I can see why this thread has fallen down the page... when you have levels like this one:

Blitz 6 - A Single Lemming...

I knew that was a bad level but in my opinion I think review threads might fall off the page because the next level may be a "remarkably ordinary" level. In other words there is so little mention about the level that it can be hard to come up with a good and bad point for that type of level. That may be what might detract reviewers from reviewing levels. I might be wrong, as there can be several good and bad points and still be an averagely popular level. At the moment the next level to review is what I call a remarkably ordinary level so I'll try my best to come up with both points of view here.

Blitz 16 - The Next Lemeration


Lemmings: 50
Save: 48 (96%)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 30
Skills: 5 bombers, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 miner

Good: Concludes the puzzle set with some bomber timing, which puts the level in the right difficulty place because of such strict timing. Requires a fair bit of thought as you can't really trap the lemmings effectively with such limited skills. I like the idea of blowing up a present to find what's inside. The title is another good use of a pun.
Bad: Concludes the puzzle set with some bomber timing, which can be tedious and can take several tries to get the bombers in the right place. Not too hard what can be read on the right, although it can be improved. (e.g. the intended "a" in the "Happy" may look like "Δ" to some people)
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Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2011, 07:19:47 AM »
Lemmings: 50
Save: 47 (94%)
I'm pretty sure this is 96% (48/50). Curiously, The Lemmings Encyclopedia says 96% for the '93 version and 94% for the '94 version. I don't know whether this might be the case on the Amiga version (IIRC TLE is based on this), but I just checked the DOS version and it's 96% there.

I can see what you mean about 'ordinary' levels. It's worth keeping in mind though that there are other aspects to a level besides gameplay, eg. visual design, title. Most levels have some merit to them, they probably wouldn't make it into the game if they didn't have a good idea behind them.

---

On to 1994!

Frost 1 - Chains of Command


Lemmings: 50
Save: 50 (100%)
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 25
Skills: 6 of each

Good: Fun visual design, neat title, simple level to start the game with.
Bad: Fairly repetitive, and quite long. Maybe too easy with the number of bashers given - a different skillset might make things interesting.
Better than Flurry 1? No. Flurry 1 is quick, which is good for a warm-up level, and it's also a better level for playing around and trying different things.

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2011, 01:46:51 PM »
Frost 2 - Ski Jump!

Lemmings: 50
Goal: 49 (98%)
Time: 3
Rate: 60
Skills: 2/50/2/2/2/2/2/2

Good: A few different ways to solve it, and not very difficult.
Bad: The 50 floaters perhaps make it a bit too easy and a bit too tedious.

Better than Flurry 2? Yeah; Flurry 2 is even more unmemorable. Both have an obvious floater theme, but this level contains the right number of floaters for the number of lemmings and with less of all the other skills, it's marginally harder to get alternative solutions. Not by much, though, and the terrain in this level is more conducive to finding alternatives.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2011, 06:26:59 PM »
Lemmings: 50
Save: 47 (94%)
I'm pretty sure this is 96% (48/50). Curiously, The Lemmings Encyclopedia says 96% for the '93 version and 94% for the '94 version. I don't know whether this might be the case on the Amiga version (IIRC TLE is based on this), but I just checked the DOS version and it's 96% there.

Hmm... It is 96% on both versions on the DOS, so that must mean that the 94% is only on the Amiga version of Holiday Lemmings '94. How interesting. 8)

Don't forget the comparisons! In this case I will compare this level to Flurry 3 to see which is the better "Easy 3".

Frost 3 - Cindyland


Lemmings: 80
Save: 75 (93%)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 50
Skills: 7 of each

Good: Has a choice of exits which could've made the level more interesting if it wasn't for the bad points.
Bad: The exit on the left is buried, and this adds to the unnecessary confusion that this level causes.
Better than Flurry 3?: I'm going to have to say no. I'm not sure if that exit on the left was intended to be buried or not, but Cindyland can be an unnecessary stump point for newcomers because of the different type of skills that you have to use as well (Not to mention the steel on the right which some players may not get used to). In Flurry 3 you would only need 1 skill to solve it and in my opinion that level is in the right position for '93.
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Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2011, 10:22:36 PM »
Hmm... It is 96% on both versions on the DOS, so that must mean that the 94% is only on the Amiga version of Holiday Lemmings '94. How interesting. 8)
I think the more likely explanation is that TLE has the wrong number for the '94 version. I don't have the Amiga version to check though.


Quote
Don't forget the comparisons! In this case I will compare this level to Flurry 3 to see which is the better "Easy 3".
Oops, I completely forgot you posted that over two years ago :o. This is what we get for taking so long to review the levels :P. I've edited the comparison into my earlier review.

---

Frost 4 - Separate Ways


Lemmings: 50
Save: 49 (98%)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 40
Skills: 1 bomber, 1 builder, 1 basher, 1 miner

Good: Simple two-sided level, about the right difficulty for its position. Surprisingly many ways to complete it, since you can bypass the central obstacle.
Bad: Possibly doesn't need so many lemmings, as most will do nothing but walk to the exits. Could use a little more visually (though the icy ceiling is a nice touch), and the floating platforms look odd.
Better than Flurry 4? Yes. Flurry 4 is pretty much a dud level that copies the one before it, so it's not much of a contest. It does have better visuals though.

Offline DoubleU

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2011, 11:43:52 PM »
Frost 5 - Lemming Reunification


Lemmings: 70
Save: 70 (100%)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 75
Skills: 10 of everything

Good: Two-hatch levels are always more interesting; plus, the level mostly has a nice symmetry.
Bad: Is that "tail" supposed to be part of a Japanese creature or something?  Not that I'm complaining about art, but the rigid 100% save requirement makes bashing the icicles tricky.
Better than Flurry 5? Probably not.  I mean, c'mon, CSotE was the only snow-less Holiday level ever.  And a lot more fluid with the low save requirement to balance out the lack of (mostly literal) guardrails.

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2011, 12:01:08 AM »
Frost 6 - Land of the Bizarre

Lemmings: 70
Goal: 69 (98%)
Rate: 1
Time: 6
Skills: 1/2/1/1/4/0/0/0

Good: Neat level where you have to work out how to overcome the obstacles without digging skills. Also good for its position, not too difficult for an early level, but at first glance it can seem more difficult than it is.
Bad: It's not bizarre, it's rather boring-looking really. I don't like the levels that consist of just these jaggedy platforms.

It seems to be impossible to save 100%, which could be cast in a good or bad light... bad because it might be infuriating to try, good because it breaks the mould. Or something.

And so much better than Flurry 6, which is rather boring (and on DOS you can bash through the steel :-\)

Offline DoubleU

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2011, 01:00:31 AM »
My apologies for meta-reviewing again, but Frost 6 is bizarre: the solution is totally unexpected because you use builders to turn around everyone.  I just felt I had to say that.

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2011, 01:19:03 AM »
Fair enough. It's unusual, sure, but I wouldn't quite call it bizarre personally. For a level titling itself "bizarre" I'd also expect something more interesting visually, too.

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2011, 06:28:18 AM »
Frost 7 - Happy New Year!


Lemmings: 50
Save: 25 (50%)
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 1
Skills: 2 bombers, 2 blockers, 10 builders, 5 bashers, 5 miners

Good: Fun design, very thematic. The start has you scrambling, especially if you want to save 100%, which is tricky but still very much achievable.
Bad: The snowman puppets are quite distracting. Some parts appear to have been thrown together haphazardly using many copies of the same terrain piece.
Better than Flurry 7? Yes. This level is a solid build-and-dig puzzle, whereas Flurry 7 is a mindless basher-fest.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2011, 06:58:59 AM »
Quote
Don't forget the comparisons! In this case I will compare this level to Flurry 3 to see which is the better "Easy 3".
Oops, I completely forgot you posted that over two years ago :o. This is what we get for taking so long to review the levels :P. I've edited the comparison into my earlier review.
Well, I can't blame you for that really, since that was a while ago. I thank you (and finlay too) for adding comparisons to your previous posts.

Frost 8 - Division Bell


Lemmings: 80
Save: 75 (93%)
Time: 1 minute
Release rate: 60
Skills: 10 of each skill

Good: An even simpler two-sided level, with has a choice of exits, but this time it has both of them working. Has a good, relevant title, showing that the lemmings will divide. A long but quick level that only needs a minute, and it makes you wonder which exit can and cannot be entered by all lemmings.
Bad: The terrain pieces at the bottom look messy. Makes people reluctant watching the lemmings going to the exit on this level. Needs only 1 skill.
Better than DOS Flurry 8? Yes. Although both levels have relevant titles, the Division Bell isn't so tricky whereas the Vacation in Gemland is a horrendously difficult level and seems to be the most common stump point for newcomers.
Better than Amiga version of Flurry 8? This is a tough one, as both of them are fairly good/OK. I'm going to say no though. Clouds of lemmings keeps you busy with builders and needs you to trap the other lemmings whereas the Division Bell only needs 1 skill and involves a lot of walking.
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Offline DoubleU

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2011, 09:42:19 PM »
Frost 9 - Quest for Kieran


Lemmings: 40
Save: 40 (100%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 50
Skills: 2 bombers, 2 blockers, 10 builders, 5 bashers, 5 miners

Good: A nice, simple level that's challenging but not too much, and with a small variety of solutions.  You could solve it in your sleep, which was probably intended.  It was designed to be part of a get-well card to a (young at the time) Mr. Kieran Miller, and even before meeting him, you can tell it must have done its job.  It's a pleasant level with, if you ask me, lots of symbolism if you know what to look for.
Bad: Um, well, I guess it's over a little too quickly.  For a level called some kind of "quest", you'd think it would be bigger and more adventurous.
Better than Flurry 9? Now that's not a very fair question, is it.  It's shorter and sweeter, but A Block from Home had a tad more adventure and variety to it (snowballs, steel, etc.), I think, not to mention some flexibility with its save requirement - thus being gentler to newbies.  Can I get back to you on that?  (Sorry.)

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2011, 01:22:55 AM »
Is that a work-in-progress? You seem to have changed the picture but nothing else of Clam's post...

edit: yay, 300 posts! I'm not going to do the next one just now.... leave it overnight perhaps.

Offline DoubleU

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2011, 02:29:40 AM »
Is that a work-in-progress? You seem to have changed the picture but nothing else of Clam's post...
In fact it was.  I got firewalled from my work twice, otherwise I would have completed it.

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2011, 06:13:50 AM »
Better than Flurry 9? Now that's not a very fair question, is it.  It's shorter and sweeter, but A Block from Home had a tad more adventure and variety to it (snowballs, steel, etc.), I think, not to mention some flexibility with its save requirement - thus being gentler to newbies.  Can I get back to you on that?  (Sorry.)
OK. If I reviewed that level I would have gone for Flurry 9, partially because the title is more relevant and that it has more decoration.

Frost 10 - Four Play


Lemmings: 4
Save: 4 (100%)
Time: 2 minutes
Release rate: 4
Skills: 2 builders, 1 basher, 3 miners, 3 diggers, 4 of everything else.

Good: An interesting little puzzle with one important objective. Lemmings appearing in several places make it more interesting. The title is relevant.
Bad: Maybe the timer's a little strict, and because of that, the last part might involve some luck.
Better than Flurry 10? Yes! This level is much more thought provoking than the dull, dark looking Flurry 10. Well done to the person who made this level. :thumbsup:
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Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2011, 07:59:02 PM »
Frost 11 - Maybe not such a doddle


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 7 minutes
Release rate: 40
Skills: 5 of each

Good: 100% requirement prevents the easy block-and-bomb method of crowd control. No chance of time-limit rage.
Bad: Doesn't add much compared to the level it's based on (I mean, who didn't save 100% on Tricky 1 already?) It even adds more boring walking time compared to that level.
Better than Flurry 11? Yikes, we're comparing two of the more redundant levels in all of Holiday Lemmings here :-\. I'm gonna say yes, the 100% requirement just barely clinches it in terms of difficulty.

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2011, 10:21:49 PM »
Frost 12 - It's Boxing Day!


Lemmings: 80
Save: 78 (97%)
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 20
Skills: 3 builders, 2 bashers, 1 digger

Good: Has a simple solution, and yet it is a very interesting level to play as the intended solution will play tricks on the unwary. Title is relevant as the lemmings are inside a box.
Bad: Apparantly some steel areas are missing from the top. Timing the first basher right can be quite tricky.
Better than Flurry 12? Yes. Although both levels involve simple actions, the Boxing Day level nails it. It's interesting that a level with few skills can prove to be a challenging puzzle, and this is one of them. Also, there's no need to take some quick skill changes if you want 100%, unlike Presents of Mind.
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2011, 02:32:21 AM »
Damn, I wanted to get that level so that I could rail about how much I hate it. It's a stupid level. :(

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2011, 02:58:19 AM »
Well, I won't stop you. ;)  Why don't you review the next level and just off-topically tag on your rant of the previous level at the end?  I think it's okay to do this once in a while.

(I'm personally neutral on that level, but just really curious that someone feels so strongly about that level......)

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2011, 06:09:26 AM »
I'm a bit surprised about my straight yes for this level as well. Comparing Flurry 12 with Frost 12 I thought was going to be the closest decision I've ever made until I played Frost 12.

If there is any more negative stuff about this level please mention it, as I can add to it.
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2011, 06:14:36 AM »
Quote
the intended solution will play tricks on the unwary.
This is a mild formulation of "the level unfairly conceals vital information, thus it's poorly designed". ;)

Consider this part of the level. The left image is the appearance of the wall inside the game. The right image shows the actual steel areas in blue; for instructional purposes, I've exaggerated them towards the right.



There are three places that look bashable (numbered). Only one of them will work. There is just a single black pixel in the steel wall (red arrow) that could be taken as a hint.

The designers put green steel blocks behind the two unbashable places, but they aren't visible. I don't know whether their design rule was "put steel areas where a block is, even if it's covered with regular terrain" or "put steel areas where steel blocks are visible" -- but I don't think they were even consistent throughout the games.

-- Simon

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2011, 08:08:57 AM »
Ah, as you can guess, clearly I didn't actually play through that level.  I can see now how annoying it can be.

But, I think one can argue that the given layout can be a sufficient and fair (but easily missed) hint.  Basically, if you assume that all the steel plates making up the "frame" of the box should be the same size and not overlapping each other, then #1 does seem to be the only place that is consistent with such a set up and having a gap of no-steel there, with the tiny bit of black pixel implying that you got the top edge of a steel plate there.  That in turn forces #2 and #3 to have fully steel behind the snow (otherwise either you have different-sized steel plates, overlapping ones, or weirdly shaped ones with ireegular edges and/or holes).

So maybe not too unfair, but sure, I would rather they spend their cleverness in other ways.

Offline DoubleU

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2011, 03:16:26 PM »
Just a suggestion, but eventually, someone should review the Xmas levels (not counting the ONML demos), if they haven't already.

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2011, 03:29:43 PM »
Basically, if you assume that all the steel plates making up the "frame" of the box should be the same size and not overlapping each other, then #1 does seem to be the only place [...] (otherwise either you have different-sized steel plates, overlapping ones, or weirdly shaped ones with ireegular edges and/or holes).

No! If all plates are the same and don't overlap, then there is no gap whatsoever. The height of the wall is exactly 4 plates -- see the right wall of the box.

It is misleading, unfair, and horrible! Yes yes yes! Nananaanann nananan nan. Nananan.

-- Simon

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #78 on: December 09, 2011, 03:32:47 PM »
Just a suggestion, but eventually, someone should review the Xmas levels (not counting the ONML demos), if they haven't already.
You mean the Xmas '91 and '92 levels? If so, I think there was a thread where you could review any level you want (it hasn't been updated for two years, but it's over here by the way).
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2011, 04:00:31 PM »
No! If all boxes are the same and don't overlap, then there is no gap whatsoever.

No overlap != "adjacent with no gaps" nor "left mirrors the right exactly". ;) In this case the left is missing the bottom-left plate and the next two shift down to form the infamous gap.  I did a horrible job explaining myself in previous post, but basically I believe those are the smallest amount of changes from a perfect box frame that is consistent with what can be seen.  "No gap"/"Perfect box frame" is inconsistent with the single black pixel (barely) visible.

So definitely misleading you into thinking "no gap".  Unfair? Maybe.  At least it's less mindless than a hidden exit, or hiding a real exit amongst 12 fakes. ;P

You mean the Xmas '91 and '92 levels? If so, I think there was a thread where you could review any level you want

So you don't want those levels reviewed here eventually? ??? Somehow they aren't Xmas enough? ;P

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2011, 04:04:11 PM »
You mean the Xmas '91 and '92 levels? If so, I think there was a thread where you could review any level you want

So you don't want those levels reviewed here eventually? ??? Somehow they aren't Xmas enough? ;P
Well, at least the 92 levels, since someone did the 91 levels in that thread.

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2011, 07:37:36 AM »
Frost 13 - 2 Minutes before midnight


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 2 minutes
Release rate: 1
Skills: 3 builders, 1 basher

Good: Neat solution that's not obvious, but easy to execute.
Bad: Waiting for 80 lemmings to file through the exit is just tiresome. Nuke-glitch solution spoils it somewhat.
Better than Flurry 13? Yes, this map is neat and compact, whereas 'Yo-yo Lem-lem' is unnecessarily lengthy, too easy and somewhat aimless.

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #82 on: December 11, 2011, 04:48:54 PM »
Frost 14 - Happy New Year! II


Lemmings: 50
Save: 40 (80%)
Time: 3 minutes
Release rate: 1
Skills: 4 builders, 3 bashers

Good: Umm... The exit has moved closer to us than last time. Fewer skills in the sequelised version.
Bad: There's not much in this level, and it can be annoying to realise that you can't even save over 95%, the Objects look messy.
Better than Flurry 14? Unfortunately not. They're both well decorated, but Flurry 14 wins my vote, due to the bad object placement of Frost 14. Also, Flurry 14 should be ideal for creating challenges (and, you can get 100% ;)) whereas Frost 14 forces you to go through one route.
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #83 on: December 11, 2011, 06:39:28 PM »
I don't know whether their design rule was "put steel areas where a block is, even if it's covered with regular terrain" or "put steel areas where steel blocks are visible" -- but I don't think they were even consistent throughout the games.
Hardly at all. The roof of the cell in Frost 12 has no steel areas, and Hail 7 ("Steel Ice Span") has none at all, despite being mostly made out of steel terrain wise. This may be because there were no digging skills in that level...

(In the original games, they were more consistent, but you won't be hard pressed to find a place where the steel area doesn't quite match up with the terrain block.)

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #84 on: December 12, 2011, 08:43:52 AM »
Frost 15 - Plethora of Presents


Lemmings: 50
Save: 49 (98%)
Time: 5 minutes
Release rate: 45
Skills: 2 climbers, 1 bomber, 1 builder, 4 bashers, 1 miner

Good: Nice title. Various ways of handling the start (albeit some require precise bomber timing). Some craftiness needed to isolate a lemming at the end, since there's only one builder.
Bad: Somewhat of a mish-mash terrain-wise - some sections don't fit in with the rest of the level, eg. the steel exit platform and the floating snowman platform. Quite a long walk from the starting area to the next section of the level.
Better than Flurry 15? Yes, 'Head for the Hills!' employs a neat trick, but it's too one-dimensional. This one is a much nicer puzzle.

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #85 on: December 20, 2011, 08:32:20 AM »
Less than a week till Christmas, and one more difficulty rating to go after this level.

Frost 16 - Up On The Rooftops


Lemmings: 80
Save: 79 (98%)
Time: 3 minutes
Release rate: 5
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 blocker, 4 builders, 1 basher

Good: Good title, as it relates to the level design, limited skills especially as there's just one floater, as you need to find a way to turn round just the one lemming.
Bad: The snowman on the left is in an awkward position.
Better than Flurry 16? I'm not so sure. It is a close one, but I'm gonna say no. As both of them require lemmings to fall a great height, the Flurry 16 level has a bit more to it, despite the repetitive looking snow stones. When I originally played Holiday Lemmings I found Frost 16 to be easier than Flurry 16, but they're both roughly in the same difficulty area.
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #86 on: December 20, 2011, 09:32:09 AM »
Hail 1 - Go Thataway!


Lemmings: 75
Save: 75 (100%)
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 50
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 2 bombers, 2 blockers, 2 builders, 2 bashers

Good: Fairly small level, solution isn't immediately obvious, but can be worked out with a little thought. Decoration is tidy, and not overdone.
Bad: Quite inflexible in solution methods, this makes the level quite bad for challenges. The floating snow piece looks odd.
Better than Blitz 1? Yes! 'Oogilemming!' is a super-long snorefest, this beats it by a mile.

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #87 on: December 22, 2011, 07:57:39 AM »

Hail 2 - Break on Through


Lemmings: 80
Save: 75 (93%)
Time: 2 minutes
Release rate: 99
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 5 bombers, 4 blockers, 5 builders

Good: A nice short, quick level with a short timer and a high release rate. Lacks frustration by adding some blockers. Has steel to prevent an obvious backroute.
Bad: Might be too easy for it's position, although it is only Level 2.
Better than Blitz 2? I'm gonna say Yes. Hail 2 wins because it is better decorated and less repetitive than Blitz 2.
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #88 on: December 22, 2011, 12:39:59 PM »
Hail 3: And a Happy New Year!

Lemmings: 50
Goal: 25 (50%)
Rate: 5
Time: 9
Skills: 50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50

Good: Cute, reminds you why you're playing the game. Opportunity for variety with so many skills.
Bad: Terrible level and not appropriate for its position. I've yet to find a level based on a word that isn't a dead easy build-and-bash-fest (the "1995!" levels come close, I guess, since you land on a precarious spot, and I would actually like to try "Ohayo Lemming san" because the hiragana looks a bit harder to deal with than 666....). Terrain is boring and repetitive with no variation and the absolute minimum of decoration. Too much time and too many skills.

Edit: 20 minutes later and I can also confirm that one of the worst things about this level is that it leaves the tune "We wish you a merry Christmas" in your head.  :sick: (what is figgy pudding, anyway?)

Better than Blizzard 3: Hahaha, no. "Check your hints" is a bit easy when you know which exit to go for and all, and is a one-trick horse, but at least it's not time-wasting filler.

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #89 on: December 23, 2011, 07:12:08 AM »
Believe it or not I would have said that Hail 3 is better than Blitz 3, possibly because the other level takes soooooo long to wait before the next skill comes into play, in other words there's a lot of walking. I'm glad you mentioned some good points to this quite atrocious level. :)

Hail 4: Lemmintaschen?

Lemmings: 80
Requirement: 78 (97%)
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 1
Skills: 20 builders, 3 bashers, 0 diggers, 1 everything else

Good: The Menorah looks quite well designed (if it wasn't for the candles)
Bad: The level has quite a bad backroute that could've easily been modified by adding more steel. Instead it ruins the position of this level (It has even been mentioned as a solution over here). Even 97% is not a high enough requirement to increase the difficulty.
Better than Blitz 4? I'm going to be firm on this and say no. Blitz 4 is a better crafted solution which forces you to think who needs to use the builder to get 100% of the lemmings in, and also, there are no backroutes that I could find either. Despite the walking the process on that other level is quite neat.
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #90 on: December 23, 2011, 06:58:40 PM »
What's the, uh, foreroute then, if that's a backroute?

Hail 5: Get the Point?

Lemmings: 80
Goal: 79 (98%)
Rate: 20
Time: 3
Skills: 0/31/0/1/10/0/0/1

Good: Suitably challenging, stretches level design to its limit with the single-pixel point that they have to land on. A decent challenge for 100% too. Not as bad as a lot of other levels and doesn't have that distinct "filler" feel to it.
Bad: Annoying level, like many others. Difficult to know where to build from.

Better than Blitz 5 ("It came upon a lemnight clear"): Yeah; that's a fairly boring climb-build-bash affair and this is more interesting.

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #91 on: December 23, 2011, 07:59:24 PM »
The "foreroute" in other words the intended solution is to build and bash to the platform above, followed by some more building and then bashing just underneath the three candles, and after that it's just a miner and a basher to the exit.

Hail 6 - Surprise Package?


Lemmings: 80
Save: 27 (33%)
Time: 1 minute
Release rate: 20
Skills: 1 blocker (Is that all?)

Good: A super short level with just the 1 minute being the perfect amount of time, but more importantly this level uses the nuke feature, which makes the level as unique as it could possibly be. Level design is related to the title as it looks like a present. A casual player would certainly find some randomness here, which is what I also enjoy too.
Bad: The intended solution also works without the blocker. The exit could've been hidden, so that it would be more of a surprise. :P
Better than Blitz 6? By a long way yes. Blitz 6 gets some black looks with quite a bad backroute as Clam mentioned in his review, and it is nowhere near as unique as Hail 6, which is my favourite level in all of Holiday Lemmings even though there's not much to it.
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #92 on: December 24, 2011, 02:05:01 AM »
Do you think Hail 6 is also the thinnest level left-to-right? It's kinda square, really.

Hail 7: Steel Ice Span

Lemmings: 80
Goal: 100%
Rate: 1
Time: 5
Skills: 1/0/0/0/25/0/0/0

Good: Moderately challenging, although perhaps a bit too easy for its position. Manages to look interesting.
Bad: Builder level... and those first spikes are a bitch to get over. Also, while it doesn't make much difference to gameplay and they can get away with it because it's a builder level, no steel areas were added to the game terrain, which strikes me as lazy.

Better than Blitz 7 (Break on through): No, not by a long shot, because Blitz 7 contains a greater variety of unseen obstacles to account for (building up will cause a death drop to occur, for instance, due to the W shape of the ground), and is more difficult to achieve 100% on.

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #93 on: December 24, 2011, 06:47:28 AM »
Do you think Hail 6 is also the thinnest level left-to-right? It's kinda square, really.
Yes, I think you're right.

Hail 8: Sir Edmund Hilemming


Lemmings: 80
Save: 80 (100%)
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 30
Skills: 1 floater, 50 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner, 1 digger

Good: Relevant title, as is features mountains. It's quite a challenge trapping the lemmings and saving 100%.
Bad: This level is far too long, and the trick needed to beat this level is too cheap for words. No decoration whatsoever, not even any rocks. No climbers, and I'm sure climbers have something to do with mountains. ???
Better than Blitz 8?: Absolutely not. Blitz 8 is a smart little remake of an earlier level by redirecting both sets of lemmings into one exit. The designers have certainly put effort into Blitz 8 rather than Hail 8.
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #94 on: December 24, 2011, 12:12:16 PM »
Oh, wait, that's not a backroute? I assumed that they gave you 50 builders because they intended you to build over the mountains... :XD:

Hail 9: Up, up and away!

Lemmings: 50
Goal: 100%
Rate: 1
Time: 8
Skills: 0/0/0/0/25/1/0/1

Good: Nice decoration, good that it forces you not to use a blocker trap in favour of a digger trap.
Bad: Not much to it at all. Quite a few of the later Hail levels also require 100% and need you to use a digger trap, so it's far from unique in that respect. All you have to do here is make a long ladder.

Better than Blitz 9 (Lemmings the Motion Picture): Yes, by a mile, but mainly because Blitz 9 was my absolute least-favourite level of the game (the point where I really started to think "Do I have to??"). It is a boring buildfest which it's easy to mess up on later in the level and have to restart, while at least Hail 9 is over quickly.

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #95 on: December 24, 2011, 12:34:50 PM »
From Hail 9 onwards the remaining levels are 100%.

Hail 10: Lemmy in the cold, cold, ground


Lemmings: 80
Time: 4 minutes
Release rate: 60
Skills: 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 5 builders, 5 bashers, 5 miners.

Bad: Gains no marks on decoration, as that chain behind two clumps of snow looks ugly. Several pieces in the wrong places...
Good: ...but that may be part of the title, as it's meant to be a cold ground. Involves a good deal of multitasking for several entrances, as this level requires 100%. A fairly interesting solution to execute.
Better than Blitz 10?: Hmm... both of them are multiple-entrance 100% levels. I'm going to say yes overall. There's more to this level compared to the other level, and the solution is neat and not too challenging. On the decoration front I would have certainly given the prize to Blitz 10, as that level is symmetrical unlike this one.

Oh, wait, that's not a backroute? I assumed that they gave you 50 builders because they intended you to build over the mountains... :XD:
Maybe so, but with only 6 minutes I don't think there's enough time to build over all the mountains. Still, I'll double check to see if this method works. :)
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #96 on: December 26, 2011, 05:58:20 PM »
Well, we failed once again, :( but there are only five levels left after this so we're getting there. :)

Hail 11: Emmings! (No L)


Lemmings: 70
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 50
Skills: 6 builders, 0 bashers, 2 everything else.

Good: Great use of the pun. (The best IMHO. LOL) A nice rescue-type level to work out without those bashers. I like the look of the double set of chains on the right.
Bad: The chains are the only eye candy we can see.
Better than Blitz 11?: They're both great 100% levels; both involving interesting techniques. I'm going to say yes (although I might be disagreed though, it is a close call). The Blitz 11 level has a wonderful new technique, but it can be repetitious at the half way mark. Hail 11 doesn't have any repetition. I'm also saying yes because of the clever quirky title.
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #97 on: December 26, 2011, 09:24:58 PM »
Hail 12: Merry Christmaze!

Lemmings: 25
Goal: 100%
Rate: 1
Time: 5
Skills: 25 builders

Good: Nice idea, passable pun in the title.
Bad: Absolutely nothing to it; I think there are two possible solutions in total, and one of them is just building across the top of the level, which stinks of backroute. I suspect that the designers meant you to be able to climb through the middle, where there are two eraser pieces, but that obviously won't work. It looks like the level was rushed out... also if you load it in the editor you will see a blank steel piece somewhere in the level. So nice idea, but very poorly executed. Also, it's a builder level.

Better than Blitz 12 (The Voyage Home): Surprisingly a close call, because Blitz 12 involves so much walking, but it's a lot more interesting than Hail 12, especially trying to go for the maximum lemmings with only 1 bomber (it's hard enough trying to find the right spot for 2 bombers!)

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #98 on: December 27, 2011, 07:48:45 AM »
Hail 13: Polar Expedition


Lemmings: 50
Time: 6 minutes
Release rate: 25
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 5 bombers, 2 blockers, 1 builder, 2 bashers, 2 diggers.

Good: This level is just in the right difficulty setting, with only two bashers to break through the three poles.
Bad: Would've probably been more difficult without a floater. No eye candy, just a few steel blocks; and that makes the looks quite dull. The blockers and bombers are not useful in a 100% level.
Better than Blitz 13?: This is a very tough decision. It's a bit 50/50 but I'm gonna say no. Both levels have at least one tough obstacle to go past (For Hail 13, say the last pole for example), but Blitz 13's obstacle is quite unique forcing the player to create a new method. The Hail 13 obstacle looks a little too familiar to that of Hail 11, even though the process is a little different.
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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #99 on: January 01, 2012, 09:27:17 AM »
Hail 14 - Rendezvous II


Lemmings: 65
Save: 65 (100%)
Time: 9 minutes
Release rate: 50
Skills: 5 climbers, 5 floaters, 2 blockers, 20 builders, 5 bashers, 3 miners, 3 diggers

Good: Brings back happy memories of finishing the original game :). Nice contrast between the rocky side and the snowy side.
Bad: Like the original Rendezvous, it's fairly easy to block off one side and then handle each side on its own, so there's no need to multitask. Also, like the original Rendezvous, very builder-heavy :-\
Better than Blitz 14 (The Undiscovered Country)? Yes. While Blitz 14 is a fun exit-hunting level, it's trivial once you know where the exit is. This level has better replay value through challenges (eg. least builders).

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #100 on: January 01, 2012, 10:49:23 AM »
Hail 15 - Steel Block Party

Lemmings: 60
Goal: 100%
Rate: 40
Time: 5
Skills: 1/0/1/2/4/1/0/4

Good: I think this is a great level and my favourite of the holiday levels. It takes some working out at first but is quite satisfying to solve, and it's very simple. I solved it using the right click technique in order to select a non-worker, and dug while the basher was going through the wall in order to make him sink down and not hit the steel block.

Bad: One trick horse... there isn't much opportunity for variety in this level. There are a couple of different solutions but basically it's one of the ones that you're not left wondering about different solutions. Or maybe that's just me.

Better than Blitz 15: Yeah. As I say, it's my favourite level.... but "The Needs of the Many" is more than a worthy contender, to be completely fair. (ie, I like it as well)

Also, happy new year everyone!

Offline Minim

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #101 on: January 01, 2012, 07:34:32 PM »
May I mention another good point on Hail 14 is that it's a 100%er and so it is well it is in the right position because of that.

Hail 16 - Peak of Performance


Lemmings: 10
Time: 2 minutes
Release rate: 25
Skills: 1 builder, 15 everything else

Good: Requires some thought as this is a 100% level. Interesting use of a "hero" level as this is a situation where the lemmings are following you and you have to find some way to slow them down.
Bad: No need for the extra amount of climbers and floaters. Some may say it is a little too easy for its position.
Better than Blitz 16? Yes, I think so. The technique required on this level is different compared to most other levels in the Holiday pack. Blitz 16 ramps the difficulty up with some bomber timing which can frustrate some players.

So there we have it, all finished! Thanks to Giga, ccexplore, Clam Spammer, finlay and DoubleU for helping out! :thumbsup:
Level Solving Contest creator. Anybody bored and looking for a different challenge? Try these levels!

Neolemmix: #1 #4 #5 #6
Lix: #2  #7
Both Engines: #3

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2012, 11:56:02 PM »
Hang on, we're not done yet! There's still Xmas 1992 to review. Unfortunately I can't find any good pictures of these levels, though potentially I could grab them myself and upload them.

Offline finlay

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #103 on: January 05, 2012, 01:44:16 AM »
Do itttt. We should probably keep a copy of them for posterity. You've already done Xmas 91, though, haven't you?

On that note, a lot of these screenshots aren't the full resolution (eg Hail 15 is but Hail 16 isn't) – is there a place you can go to get full resolution shots of each level? This goes for L1 and ONML too...

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #104 on: January 05, 2012, 04:29:56 AM »
Do itttt. We should probably keep a copy of them for posterity. You've already done Xmas 91, though, haven't you?
Yes, I reviewed those levels (with images as attachments) in the random review topic.


Quote
On that note, a lot of these screenshots aren't the full resolution (eg Hail 15 is but Hail 16 isn't) – is there a place you can go to get full resolution shots of each level? This goes for L1 and ONML too...
The forum's database automatically shrinks images if they're too large (the cutoff seems to be about 1000px wide). I have the originals for ONML somewhere, not sure about Holiday. Adam ought to have them at least, since he's the only one who can upload to the forum database IIRC.

Offline Clam

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #105 on: January 05, 2012, 04:57:52 AM »
Done! The Xmas Lemmings 1992 level pics are attached. :)

Offline Wafflem

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Re: Christmas Lemmings Level reviews
« Reply #106 on: September 04, 2014, 06:13:40 PM »
I'm surprised this hasn't been completed yet. As Clam had already finished reviewing Xmas 91 in another thread, I'll go ahead and finish off with the first level of Xmas '92.

Note: I'm using the traditional version of the Xmas Lemmix Player.



Xmas92 1 - Jingle Lemming
50 Lemmings, 50% to be saved
Release Rate 50
5 minutes
25 Bashers

Good: The level has nice decorations and a simple layout.
Bad: Simple as it is, I feel that a solution that involves only bashing is a waste, especially in a pack of only four levels. Also, the piece of snow on the right of the trapdoor feels out of place.
YouTube: www.tinyurl.com/YTWafflem
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/Wafflem467

Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!