I see the words "Test Version" And I can't help but feel that it falls into the "Experimental" Category, Is that the case?Exactly.
Will it get some of the remaining features leftover from the old format?As namida said, this depends on what you need. I don't intend to spend time coding options that noone is ever going to use and clutter the GUI with them (especially as it's already more cluttered than I prefer it to be). So I plan to wait for complains about missing features to determine what else I have to add.
Does this have any hotkeys for things like making a piece an eraser, etc? (something that is currently broken/lacking on NL)Yes, for all of this there are hotkeys, all of them on the left side of the keyboard. To get a complete list of all hotkeys, press F11 in the editor.
I love working with 8x8 or 16x16 tiles, so it would be cool if the editor had a possibility to set up a grid.I would like some clarification here: Do you want to have...
c) ...a way to force the piece coordinates to multiples of 8?Definitely, a snap-to-grid kinda thing.
b) ...a way to move pieces by 8 pixels a time, while the piece's coordinates can be arbitrary.This was the method in the old editor if I'm not mistaken. It is tiresome in the long run, especially if you want to place a block in the middle of nothing but still maintain it in a grid with the other tiles.
As I am reading the FAQ again: Will there be support for rotated objects in the future? Because I don't really see the reason why there shouldn't be support for that until now ???And I don't really see the reason, why this should be supported. I suspect that this feature is one of Simon's carrots (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2288.msg59040#msg59040): The old editor supported it for a long time now, rarely someone used it, but everyone likes to have this option.
As I am reading the FAQ again: Will there be support for rotated objects in the future? Because I don't really see the reason why there shouldn't be support for that until now ???And I don't really see the reason, why this should be supported. I suspect that this feature is one of Simon's carrots (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2288.msg59040#msg59040): The old editor supported it for a long time now, rarely someone used it, but everyone likes to have this option.
Once you convince me that a rotated hatch is something you gonna need, this will become available. :P I just haven't seen any real good use for most rotated objects. The only rotated object used in an acutal level (at least that I am aware of), is the fire-blower.
I use rotated objects all the time. Please keep support of them, but the collision detection needs to be fixed for them.
LPO2 has a level (Sharp Minded Lemming) that uses rotated water for decoration. One of my NLC contributions (The Golden Rule Of Lem) uses a rotated spike trap from the Pillar set, fully functional. Those are the only cases I can think of off the top of my head (OWWs excluded) where I've used object rotating.
I use rotated objects all the time. Please keep support of them [...]Thanks for this info. What types of objects do you rotate or even invert? I am completely set againts allowing rotation of hatches, preplaced lemmings or (anti-)splat pads (and a few other types of objects) and will never allow rotation (or even inverting) for all objects. So I need to know a bit more details.
[...] but the collision detection needs to be fixed for them.This is something the NeoLemmix player has to support first, before I can do anything in the editor.
Thanks for this info. What types of objects do you rotate or even invert? I am completely set againts allowing rotation of hatches, preplaced lemmings or (anti-)splat pads (and a few other types of objects) and will never allow rotation (or even inverting) for all objects. So I need to know a bit more details.
@GigaLem and everyone else: If you use rotated (or even inverted) objects (not only terrain), could you please post a bit more details, too? Thanks in advance.
This kind of stuff saves space and increases ideas in Graphic setsTo elaborate on what namida already said: Even in the current version of the editor (try it out :thumbsup:), you can
Not needing to make a Inverted, Rotated, or Flipped version of the tile because the editor can do it for us
Same can be said for certain NL objects too. You only need to have one version of the piece and the editor does the rest
When you turn off object rendering they dissapear but you can still select objects (which you can't see). Same for terrain. I'm assuming this is a glitch. If it's not a glitch: this is bad. This is certaintly not helpful and don't see a benefit to this. When terrain or X gets not rendered it shouldn't be selectable.This is a bug and will be fixed in the next version. Thanks for reporting.
Also: is there no delete option? [delete terrain etc?]Yes there is: Either via the menu tab "Edit -> Cut" or via the hotkey "Ctrl+X".
When you turn off object rendering they dissapear but you can still select objects (which you can't see). Same for terrain. I'm assuming this is a glitch. If it's not a glitch: this is bad. This is certaintly not helpful and don't see a benefit to this. When terrain or X gets not rendered it shouldn't be selectable.This is a bug and will be fixed in the next version. Thanks for reporting.Also: is there no delete option? [delete terrain etc?]Yes there is: Either via the menu tab "Edit -> Cut" or via the hotkey "Ctrl+X".
Just to be clear; when you cut is this data copied to your clipboard?Essentially yes. But the editor doesn't actively use the clipboard (mainly because I didn't know how to access it at the time when I was coding this), and instead saves the data internally. This does indeed only remember the very last deletion (which may have removed one or several pieces), so Paste (Ctrl+V) only works to revert one deletion. If you accidentally deleted multiple times, you have to use Undo (Ctrl+Z) to readd them one by one.
I assume that if I cut multiple times (without pasting) only the last thing is remembered to be pasted.
a button that inserts terrain randomly onto the level or mixes up the terrain. This is to give you ideas if you're trying to make a level and have writer's block.I am not a fan of this suggestion myself, as I have doubts whether such a button will actually turn out useful. And at the moment there are bigger fish out there to catch, that this.
* If I maximise the window, it would be nice if the editor remembered this next time I open it.Thanks, will do this.
* "Open" dialogue could go straight into the "levels" folder.
* The scrollbar under the level should have a button that resizes according to how much of the level is currently on-screen.
* "All to Front", "One to Front" labels are misleading. These features are usually called "To Front" and "Forward", and similarly for the "back" buttons.
* It would be awesome if I could drag the level window / terrain selection window boundary upwards, so as to get more terrain pieces in view at once.This will be rather hard to implement, so don't expect this any time soon. But I will keep it in mind.
* As with "delete", it would be nice to have a "duplicate" hotkey that copies and pastes a piece with a single keypress. Also, ctrl-C should just copy a piece without duplicating, as users will end up with lots of duplicated pieces in their levels through thinking they have to ctrl-C and then ctrl-V.No problem. What hotkey do you suggest for duplicating? Ctrl-D, perhaps?
* When the grid is active, the arrow keys should move a piece by 8, rather than snapping to a multiple of 8. This allows quick tiling of pieces starting from a position that isn't aligned to the grid (which is sometimes necessary if you want to place tiled pieces next to irregular pieces).I think the current behavior was explicitely requested. The idea behind this was (if I remember correctly) that this allows dragging new pieces onto the level area which then align properly along the grid where all the other aligned pieces were already.
No problem. What hotkey do you suggest for duplicating? Ctrl-D, perhaps?No, a single keypress as opposed to ctrl-anything. Saving a very small amount of time, on a very frequently repeated action, adds up to a large saving. Of course, the ideal would be "A" as I'm used to it from Lix, but a different key would be fine too.
I think the current behavior was explicitly requested. The idea behind this was (if I remember correctly) that this allows dragging new pieces onto the level area which then align properly along the grid where all the other aligned pieces were already.I'm not sure how changing the behaviour of the arrow keys would affect dragging? Anyway, if nothing else, ctrl-arrow (which is explicitly listed as "move by 8 pixels" in the hotkey help) should always move a piece by 8 pixels regardless of whether the grid is active.
I am not against changing this behavior - in fact it would simplify the code - but I want be sure that everyone would be happy with your proposed change.
* The scrollbar under the level should have a button that resizes according to how much of the level is currently on-screen.I checked this and the button does resize for me. Could you please recheck this issue?
"A" is already taken for "Set piece to erasing". How about a single click on "C" without having "Ctrl" pressed"?No problem. What hotkey do you suggest for duplicating? Ctrl-D, perhaps?No, a single keypress as opposed to ctrl-anything. Saving a very small amount of time, on a very frequently repeated action, adds up to a large saving. Of course, the ideal would be "A" as I'm used to it from Lix, but a different key would be fine too.
So you suggest the following behavior: When adding a new piece (by dragging or clicking on the piece selection picture at the bottom), then let the piece automatically snag to the grid. But don't do this if copying an existing piece or moving an existing piece around. Correct?QuoteI think the current behavior was explicitly requested. The idea behind this was (if I remember correctly) that this allows dragging new pieces onto the level area which then align properly along the grid where all the other aligned pieces were already.I'm not sure how changing the behaviour of the arrow keys would affect dragging? Anyway, if nothing else, ctrl-arrow (which is explicitly listed as "move by 8 pixels" in the hotkey help) should always move a piece by 8 pixels regardless of whether the grid is active.
I am not against changing this behavior - in fact it would simplify the code - but I want be sure that everyone would be happy with your proposed change.
a minor glitch(?) After clicking once in the editor my cursor changed to a cross hairs and remains that way over the whole interface.Yes, that's exactly the bug I mentioned three posts ago. ;)
upon TABBING to another window or pressing control O to open a level; after this I am no longer able to move pieces with my mouse. I can select pieces but they cannot move. I can still move them with the arrow keys.Thanks. I can reproduce this bug now and will fix it. The problem occurs when the Ctrl key was pressed while the editor had the focus, but was release while some other application got the focus.
-when going through skills and entering how many of each if you tab to the next one the cursor goes in front of the 0. I think it'd be better if instead the entire form would be highlighted. Making it easy for example to enter exactly what you want instead of having to backspace etc.Well, the current behavior is the standard Windows behavior. But I can see your point and will override it.
-when you click once, it selects a piece, you must let go and click again to move it. In the old editor you could move it immediatly. You had to hold control to select multiple pieces. I think I prefer this method; it's seems faster right now.Here we have the problem that there are only so many keys and mouse buttons. At the moment Ctrl is used to add pieces to the current selection (whether by clicking on a single piece or drawing a rectangle with the mouse), which was something I found was missing in the old editor. At the moment I don't know what to do and how to change the key bindings to suit everyone.
-when you click once, it selects a piece, you must let go and click again to move it. In the old editor you could move it immediatly. You had to hold control to select multiple pieces. I think I prefer this method; it's seems faster right now.Here we have the problem that there are only so many keys and mouse buttons. At the moment Ctrl is used to add pieces to the current selection (whether by clicking on a single piece or drawing a rectangle with the mouse), which was something I found was missing in the old editor. At the moment I don't know what to do and how to change the key bindings to suit everyone.
Thoughts on the current version:Please describe your preferred grid behavior in this specific topic I just made (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3483.0), because I really don't know what everyone just complains whenever I make some change, but noone decribes in detail what they actually want.
- The grid is something I would like to use, but it needs the ability to make fine adjustments to piece positions. Currently holding control + arrow keys while the grid is enabled moves the piece by a large amount (I assume 8*the size of the grid since it moves 8 pixels without a grid). I would suggest including a key (if there's not already one that I can't find) to move pieces 1 pixel at a time regardless of the grid setting. Maybe control should instead move pieces one pixel at a time when the grid is enabled (and keep its current behavior when it's not?).
- I would like an option to show the grid.If there is a lot of support for this feature, I can implement it. But personally I find this more distracting than anything else.
- In the hotkeys list, "C" is listed as "Delete selected pieces" and "Delete" is listed as "Duplicate selected pieces." I assume they were meant to be switched, because the keys behave opposite in the editor, and the way they're coded certainly makes a lot more sense than the way they're listed in the hotkeys list.Oops. Silly mistake. :-[ Thanks for noticing.
- I have no idea how complicated something like this is, but the ability to rebind hotkeys would be nice, though it is certainly not necessary.This is on my to-do list, but getting the new-formats version ready is more important for now, so don't expect this anytime soon.
-when you click once, it selects a piece, you must let go and click again to move it. In the old editor you could move it immediatly. You had to hold control to select multiple pieces. I think I prefer this method; it's seems faster right now.Here we have the problem that there are only so many keys and mouse buttons. At the moment Ctrl is used to add pieces to the current selection (whether by clicking on a single piece or drawing a rectangle with the mouse), which was something I found was missing in the old editor. At the moment I don't know what to do and how to change the key bindings to suit everyone.
I think I can live with it as if; if no change is made. That is a good point you make about adding pieces to the selection. I thought there was a way to do with in the old editor but now I don't remember exactly :-\
selecting specific pieces and avoiding others nearby. This was very frustrating in old Lemmix.
selecting specific pieces and avoiding others nearby. This was very frustrating in old Lemmix.
2 better answers to this:And then you can drag the selected piece immediately.
- Select by pixel. Only when no opaque pixel under the mouse cursor, select by smallest rectangle that encompasses all opaque pixels of a tile; this is helpful to select mesh-shaped terrain. Never select by the size of the graphic.
- Hover. (Show what piece would be selected if you pressed the mouse button.)
-- Simon
1) if it would be at all possible; I really liked the 'Align' feature of old Lemmix. You could select a number of pieces then tile them horizontally or vertically (or diagonally if I recall correctly.) It had some interesting uses. It was an option under the "selection" menu. And it allowed for quickly designing some things.Wow, I didn't even know that this was possible in the old editor. I will have a look at the old editor to see what this does exactly, and then decide whether to add this to the new one depending a bit on the amound of coding work needed.
2) I doubt if this is possible under the new way the editor implements things but being able to change a selected tile on screen to another one was kind of nice.Sorry, but this will not be possible any more. First of all deleting the old piece and dragging the new piece to its position is almost as fast. On the other hand it would mean coding a new user interface just for this purpose and the background code is not written to allow such things, so this feature would most likely be extremely buggy.
how do you make an entrance lemmings come out facing left? I don't see an option in the editor.
Hatches: Should it always just change the direction of the lemmings and never flip the sprite?
Teleporters: Thanks for noticing that flipping lemmings in teleporters is still present in NeoLemmix. That's a perfect candidate to be culled. As for the actual topic at hand: As the sprite is the only way for the player to tell in advance whether the teleporter flips lemmings or not, I strongly prefer to keep this visual clue.
It would be really nice if it were possible to copy terrain from a level, close the level, open another and paste it. It currently is not; when you try to do this a message says: "no material on clipboard; continue operation?" and clicking NO closes the program! ???
It's not something I used on the old editor real often; but can really come in handy; allowing you to create/copy huge or complex structures very fast.