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NeoLemmix => NeoLemmix Main => Topic started by: Nepster on June 07, 2017, 08:23:13 PM

Title: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 07, 2017, 08:23:13 PM
NLEditor - A new file-type NeoLemmix editor

Download it from the NeoLemmix homepage (https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=editor)

(http://i.imgur.com/VxweLKN.png)

Important comments:
- The current editor is version 1.3.
- This editor requires the new file-type styles and must be placed in the same directory as the player, so that the "styles" folder is an immediate subfolder.
- If you want to playtest levels, you need player V11.15.22 (or newer).

I am looking forward to your feedback, suggestions, bug reports, ...
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 07, 2017, 08:23:49 PM
FAQ

Why did you create this editor?
I was looking for a project that lets me learn more C#. And the existing editor had some quirks that annoyed me, while namida complained about the bad code quality of the existing editor. So writing a new editor was a natural choice. At first I expected that this editor stays my own private editor and did not get released, but due to a lack of other editors that can save new nxlv files, this changed.
All of this however has the consequence, that my focus lay on some parts I deem important while other features are not or only badly implemented. If you miss anything, please tell me - but I make no guarantees that I will actually add it.

Which OSs are supported?
The NLEditor.exe is a Windows executable. The code should compile to Linux and Mac, too. If you are interested, please contact me. But there are two parts of the editor, that won't work on anything but Windows, because they rely on the NeoLemmix player:
1) Playtesting a level.
2) Loading old .lvl (or other) level files.

Help! My level looks differently or plays differently!
Yes, that can happen. This editor does not support all options that the player or the old editor have, for example:
- This editor only uses AutoSteel, not Simple AutoSteel, steel areas, ...
- This editor does only support rotated objects for certain types.
- This editor has only very little support for moving background objects.
And then there are a parts, where the editor rendering displays something slightly different compared to the player. For example the theme colors don't (yet) get applied to the pickup skills in the editor.

Can I load old .lvl file? How about other old level files?
Yes, loading .lvl level files is supported. For this the NeoLemmix player (version V11.14.19:1cf3523 or newer) must be present in the same directory as the editor. In the same way you can load old (Super)Lemmini levels (.ini files) or old Lemmins levels (.lev files).
Other types like Lemmix packs (.dat) are not supported.

Can I save levels as .lvl files?
No.

There are Group/Ungroup function. What do they do?
Currently: Nothing! ;P The player does not yet recognize grouped pieces and grouped pieces cannot yet saved in nxlv files. So these functions have been disabled, even though the editor can handle grouped pieces internally. 

Why are the buttons moving the bottom piece selection bar so slowly?
Try right-clicking on the buttons and the you should notice a considerable speed-up.

I want to reorder the styles in the style lists. How can I do that?
Put a style.ini file in your "styles" folder. This has to be a text file, with groups per style as follows:
  ["Name of style folder in directory"]
  Name="Name of style in editor"
  Order="Index of style in editor"
(slanted parts and quotes around them are place-holders). This is the same syntax as the styles.ini file for the old editor, so you could have simply copied your old styles.ini file, if it weren't that all styles have been renamed. You can download my own styles.ini file here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/br3rgw3hvp11cwr/styles.ini?dl=0).
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: GigaLem on June 07, 2017, 11:41:29 PM
I see the words "Test Version" And I can't help but feel that it falls into the "Experimental" Category, Is that the case?
and if there is a like a "Non-Test" Version and that's like a "No duh", Will it get some of the remaining features leftover from the old format? (stuff missing from the old editor ,because I don't my levels breaking during the conversion process)
Otherwise I guess I have little time left with my current editor
plus I do like the GUI im seeing right now :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: namida on June 07, 2017, 11:58:06 PM
GigaLem: NeoLemmix itself still supports options even if they're missing from this editor. Nepster might add it if requested; I will probably make an official new-formats compatible editor at some point (although since Nepster's one exists, it won't be high priority); and if all else fails the NXLV files are a text-based format, so you can open them with any text editor (such as Notepad) and set the missing stuff yourself. Try it, open an NXLV file in a text editor and see for yourself. :)

The tools for converting old format content support everything. This should include the code in Nepster's editor to load LVL files, as it uses the same conversion code that new-formats NeoLemmix itself uses when loading LVL files.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on June 08, 2017, 12:32:22 AM
I'll give it a try at some point and offer any comments I might have. Does this have any hotkeys for things like making a piece an eraser, etc? (something that is currently broken/lacking on NL)
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 08, 2017, 04:48:27 PM
Quote
I see the words "Test Version" And I can't help but feel that it falls into the "Experimental" Category, Is that the case?
Exactly.

Quote
Will it get some of the remaining features leftover from the old format?
As namida said, this depends on what you need. I don't intend to spend time coding options that noone is ever going to use and clutter the GUI with them (especially as it's already more cluttered than I prefer it to be). So I plan to wait for complains about missing features to determine what else I have to add.

Does this have any hotkeys for things like making a piece an eraser, etc? (something that is currently broken/lacking on NL)
Yes, for all of this there are hotkeys, all of them on the left side of the keyboard. To get a complete list of all hotkeys, press F11 in the editor.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Colorful Arty on June 09, 2017, 02:03:25 AM
This looks nice. C# is a fun language to program in, especially for making GUIs. This GUI looks similar to what I'm doing at my internship.

I'll have to give this a try over the weekend.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Ryemanni on June 09, 2017, 11:53:46 AM
I love working with 8x8 or 16x16 tiles, so it would be cool if the editor had a possibility to set up a grid. I don't know if that feature was in the old editor though, I might have just never found it... :P
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 09, 2017, 04:37:08 PM
I love working with 8x8 or 16x16 tiles, so it would be cool if the editor had a possibility to set up a grid.
I would like some clarification here: Do you want to have...
a) ...just a grid displayed on the background, so you can place the pieces better.
b) ...a way to move pieces by 8 pixels a time, while the piece's coordinates can be arbitrary.
c) ...a way to force the piece coordinates to multiples of 8?

@everyone else: Who else would like to see this feature?
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Proxima on June 09, 2017, 06:01:24 PM
I would. Snap-to-grid is essential in Lix editing, where nearly all blocky terrain has multiples of 8 for dimensions. That isn't true in NL, but even so, it would be a welcome convenience any time I am working with a tileset with appropriately sized tiles. (Also, something that may just be my own personal preference -- for placing rocky terrain, I like the way snap-to-grid narrows down my options, so I can just look at a few placements for one tile relative to another and choose the one that looks best, rather than spend a long time trying to place it perfectly.)
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Ryemanni on June 09, 2017, 06:34:33 PM
c) ...a way to force the piece coordinates to multiples of 8?
Definitely, a snap-to-grid kinda thing.

b) ...a way to move pieces by 8 pixels a time, while the piece's coordinates can be arbitrary.
This was the method in the old editor if I'm not mistaken. It is tiresome in the long run, especially if you want to place a block in the middle of nothing but still maintain it in a grid with the other tiles.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: IchoTolot on June 09, 2017, 08:06:26 PM
a) would be enough for me personally, but I am fine when an option for b) or c) exists and would sometimes make use of it.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 14, 2017, 05:52:36 PM
Version 0.7 is out!

Changes:
- Force piece snapping to a grid is supported. You can enable this via the settings menu (F10).
- Adding new pieces by dragging them from the bottom panel is supported. Thanks to kieranmillar for this idea.
- Adding new pieces by double-clicking on the level area got disabled, because the editor now features a superior way to place new pieces at the mouse position.
   (@IchoTolot: Please try the new method and give feedback!)
- Loading old (Super)Lemmini and Lemmins levels is supported. Note that this requires the most recent experimental version of the player (i.e. version V11.14.19:1cf3523).
- Roughly a dozen of other small bug-fixes.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: namida on June 15, 2017, 02:50:32 AM
Please note that this latest version does not directly load levels (other than NXLV ones) itself, but rather gets NeoLemmix to convert them to NXLV, then loads the result.

As such, any issues with loading levels from old formats should be reported as a NeoLemmix bug, not an NLEditor bug.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: IchoTolot on June 15, 2017, 03:56:31 PM
I will try out the new version (also the new player) over the weekend and give some more feedback, as I have more spare time now.

As I am reading the FAQ again: Will there be support for rotated objects in the future? Because I don't really see the reason why there shouldn't be support for that until now ???
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 15, 2017, 04:12:16 PM
As I am reading the FAQ again: Will there be support for rotated objects in the future? Because I don't really see the reason why there shouldn't be support for that until now ???
And I don't really see the reason, why this should be supported. I suspect that this feature is one of Simon's carrots (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2288.msg59040#msg59040): The old editor supported it for a long time now, rarely someone used it, but everyone likes to have this option.

Once you convince me that a rotated hatch is something you gonna need, this will become available. :P I just haven't seen any real good use for most rotated objects. The only rotated object used in an acutal level (at least that I am aware of), is the fire-blower.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on June 16, 2017, 12:23:04 AM
As I am reading the FAQ again: Will there be support for rotated objects in the future? Because I don't really see the reason why there shouldn't be support for that until now ???
And I don't really see the reason, why this should be supported. I suspect that this feature is one of Simon's carrots (http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2288.msg59040#msg59040): The old editor supported it for a long time now, rarely someone used it, but everyone likes to have this option.

Once you convince me that a rotated hatch is something you gonna need, this will become available. :P I just haven't seen any real good use for most rotated objects. The only rotated object used in an acutal level (at least that I am aware of), is the fire-blower.

If the fire blower is the only object that ever gets rotated then it would make more sense to simply designed a rotated fire blower.
If however more tilesets get created which have objects which people want to rotate it makes more sense to support rotating in the editor.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: namida on June 16, 2017, 05:28:25 AM
LPO2 has a level (Sharp Minded Lemming) that uses rotated water for decoration. One of my NLC contributions (The Golden Rule Of Lem) uses a rotated spike trap from the Pillar set, fully functional. Those are the only cases I can think of off the top of my head (OWWs excluded) where I've used object rotating.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Colorful Arty on June 16, 2017, 10:40:25 PM
I use rotated objects all the time. Please keep support of them, but the collision detection needs to be fixed for them.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: GigaLem on June 17, 2017, 03:51:14 AM
I use rotated objects all the time. Please keep support of them, but the collision detection needs to be fixed for them.
LPO2 has a level (Sharp Minded Lemming) that uses rotated water for decoration. One of my NLC contributions (The Golden Rule Of Lem) uses a rotated spike trap from the Pillar set, fully functional. Those are the only cases I can think of off the top of my head (OWWs excluded) where I've used object rotating.

yeah, I want this kept at all cost. Rotation is something that made tilesets have wider horizons for level design so it'd be a crime if it didn't come back
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: namida on June 17, 2017, 04:57:59 AM
GigaLem: Rotation of terrain pieces is not under question. That is staying, for sure.

Even rotating objects, it's unlikely to be removed from NeoLemmix, but not sure if Nepster will support it in his editor.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 17, 2017, 10:37:36 AM
I use rotated objects all the time. Please keep support of them [...]
Thanks for this info. What types of objects do you rotate or even invert? I am completely set againts allowing rotation of hatches, preplaced lemmings or (anti-)splat pads (and a few other types of objects) and will never allow rotation (or even inverting) for all objects. So I need to know a bit more details.
@GigaLem and everyone else: If you use rotated (or even inverted) objects (not only terrain), could you please post a bit more details, too? Thanks in advance.

[...] but the collision detection needs to be fixed for them.
This is something the NeoLemmix player has to support first, before I can do anything in the editor.

Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: GigaLem on June 18, 2017, 12:30:25 AM
Thanks for this info. What types of objects do you rotate or even invert? I am completely set againts allowing rotation of hatches, preplaced lemmings or (anti-)splat pads (and a few other types of objects) and will never allow rotation (or even inverting) for all objects. So I need to know a bit more details.
@GigaLem and everyone else: If you use rotated (or even inverted) objects (not only terrain), could you please post a bit more details, too? Thanks in advance.

This kind of stuff saves space and increases ideas in Graphic sets
Not needing to make a Inverted, Rotated, or Flipped version of the tile because the editor can do it for us

Same can be said for certain NL objects too. You only need to have one version of the piece and the editor does the rest

while is shrinks the file size it increases the possibilities for levels.
Case in point, The Sky set from LPIII. Most people hated the graphic set because of its limited use. By adding the rotation feature, Its now more usable than ever before.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on June 18, 2017, 12:46:52 AM
I tried it out a bit; :thumbsup: very fun so far. Simple and more straightforward than the old editor.

I can't play test yet for reasons. I'll post with more comments later.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: namida on June 18, 2017, 06:48:39 AM
GigaLem: Rotation of terrain pieces is not under discussion here. Nepster's editor supports rotating terrain. No one debates that this option is extremely useful, and it isn't under any threat. We're talking about rotating objects here.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 18, 2017, 07:43:39 AM
This kind of stuff saves space and increases ideas in Graphic sets
Not needing to make a Inverted, Rotated, or Flipped version of the tile because the editor can do it for us

Same can be said for certain NL objects too. You only need to have one version of the piece and the editor does the rest
To elaborate on what namida already said: Even in the current version of the editor (try it out :thumbsup:), you can
- Invert, Rotate and Flip any terrain piece
- Flip any object
These will certainly stay possible. I am now considering allowing rotation and invesion for (more) objects, exactly due to the reasons you state. Still I would like to have one question answered:
For which object types (trap, fire, water, teleporter, ...) have you use the option "Rotate" resp. "Invert" in some level?
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: namida on June 18, 2017, 07:57:40 AM
Not a case of using it myself, but I've seen inverted water (including in cases where it has a functional purpose) in more than a few cases. Off the top of my head, the only case I can think of where I've used it was mostly decorative.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: IchoTolot on June 18, 2017, 09:44:27 AM
For me I regulary use inverted objects for active and decorative use, rotated I must check, but I've seen several levels that use rotated objects.
Example for active usage of object rotating: Last level of LemmingsSquared uses a vertical wall of water as a "deadly wall".

Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on June 20, 2017, 12:25:45 AM
some quick comments on things I noticed while looking it over:

I like the layout and interface. Love the bring to font/back options. My prayers have been answered, Turkel. :D :thumbsup:

I noticed a problem:
When you turn off object rendering they dissapear but you can still select objects (which you can't see). Same for terrain. I'm assuming this is a glitch. If it's not a glitch: this is bad. This is certaintly not helpful and don't see a benefit to this. When terrain or X gets not rendered it shouldn't be selectable.

Also: is there no delete option? [delete terrain etc?]
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 20, 2017, 08:55:37 PM
When you turn off object rendering they dissapear but you can still select objects (which you can't see). Same for terrain. I'm assuming this is a glitch. If it's not a glitch: this is bad. This is certaintly not helpful and don't see a benefit to this. When terrain or X gets not rendered it shouldn't be selectable.
This is a bug and will be fixed in the next version. Thanks for reporting.

Also: is there no delete option? [delete terrain etc?]
Yes there is: Either via the menu tab "Edit -> Cut" or via the hotkey "Ctrl+X".
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on June 26, 2017, 11:12:20 PM
When you turn off object rendering they dissapear but you can still select objects (which you can't see). Same for terrain. I'm assuming this is a glitch. If it's not a glitch: this is bad. This is certaintly not helpful and don't see a benefit to this. When terrain or X gets not rendered it shouldn't be selectable.
This is a bug and will be fixed in the next version. Thanks for reporting.

Also: is there no delete option? [delete terrain etc?]
Yes there is: Either via the menu tab "Edit -> Cut" or via the hotkey "Ctrl+X".

Just to be clear; when you cut is this data copied to your clipboard?
I assume that if I cut multiple times (without pasting) only the last thing is remembered to be pasted.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 27, 2017, 08:08:29 PM
Just to be clear; when you cut is this data copied to your clipboard?
I assume that if I cut multiple times (without pasting) only the last thing is remembered to be pasted.
Essentially yes. But the editor doesn't actively use the clipboard (mainly because I didn't know how to access it at the time when I was coding this), and instead saves the data internally. This does indeed only remember the very last deletion (which may have removed one or several pieces), so Paste (Ctrl+V) only works to revert one deletion. If you accidentally deleted multiple times, you have to use Undo (Ctrl+Z) to readd them one by one.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on June 28, 2017, 05:08:56 PM
Updated the editor to version 0.8. See the first post for the download link.

Changes:
- New feature: Rotating and inverting traps, fire and water objects is possible now. Rotating and inverting decoration is still possible.
- Fixed bug: The editor no longer overwrites the player settings file. When the player settings file location changed, I had to update one file path in the editor, too. Unfortunately I changed the wrong one for version 0.7... :-[
- Fixed bug (found by möbius): If display of terrain/object pieces has been disabled, they can no longer be selected.
- Minor UI improvements.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on September 03, 2017, 11:32:24 PM
I have a request/suggestion, this was initially brought up byt LLJP or whats-his-name in his program;

a button that inserts terrain randomly onto the level or mixes up the terrain. This is to give you ideas if you're trying to make a level and have writer's block.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on September 04, 2017, 05:29:18 PM
a button that inserts terrain randomly onto the level or mixes up the terrain. This is to give you ideas if you're trying to make a level and have writer's block.
I am not a fan of this suggestion myself, as I have doubts whether such a button will actually turn out useful. And at the moment there are bigger fish out there to catch, that this.

Anyway, I have a new version 0.9 for you. Please see the first post for the download link. Changes are:
- Fixed bug (found by möbius): Error when trying to rotate (via hotkey) when no piece is selected.
- Removed support for slowfreeze and triggered animation objects.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on September 05, 2017, 03:44:44 PM
I messed up with V0.9: You cannot add any tiles as long as you haven't set a background. :lem-shocked: I uploaded a hot-fix version 0.10.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Ryemanni on September 05, 2017, 06:28:09 PM
I just noticed that the about window doesn't fully show the license. (see attachment for pic)
It's a very minor thing, but should still be fixed. :P
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on September 05, 2017, 06:31:32 PM
Thanks. It does show everything on my computer with Windows 7, probably because I use a far thinner top bar than you do. This probably means that I have to completely change the way I determine the height of my forms...
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Ryemanni on September 06, 2017, 05:01:53 PM
I've been messing around with the editor and came up with a quick suggestion that would make the level building process a bit more fluid (at least for me):
Allow the user to scroll the tiles/objects bar with a mousewheel. Clicking the left/right arrows manually can get very tiresome overtime.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on September 11, 2017, 04:38:24 PM
Sorry for responding only now. Currently the mousewheel is bound to zooming in and out of the level, which I consider important enough to keep there.
I am not sure how else to make scrolling through the tiles bar faster. I already implemented right-click on the buttons for very fast scrolling and "shift+arrow key" as a hotkey.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nessy on September 24, 2017, 04:25:49 AM
Hi, I finally started using the new NLEditor but it seems like I'm having some trouble with the NeoLemmix player. Every time I try to play a level I get an error that says:

TBaseDosAnimationSet: Error while opening scheme.nxmi

I made sure that I downloaded everything and that everything was in its proper place but nothing seems to work. The file in question, from the directory where I have my NeoLemmix player: styles > default > lemmings > scheme.nxmi

Thanks.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Ryemanni on September 24, 2017, 08:50:56 AM
Nepster found the bug yesterday and has uploaded a hotfix:
http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3423.0
It's in the last post. :D
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nessy on September 24, 2017, 09:01:08 PM
Thanks Raymanni, that worked. I uploaded the hotfix into the NeoLemmix player download on the server, but I guess I forgot to do it on my side.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on September 29, 2017, 05:19:51 PM
IchoTolot wants the following additions to the editor:
1) Hotkey "del" to delete pieces.
Will be added.
2) Info about the coordinates of the current selection. Perhaps even with the ability to edit?
I will add the display of the coordinates somewhere. I am not sure whether I want to allow editing the coordinates, as I deem this less useful and it clutters the editor even more.
3) Info about the size of the current selection.
Here I am unsure as well. This seems to me far less useful to know.

Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 01, 2017, 03:49:17 PM
Version 1.1 released, cf. first post for download links.

Changes:
- If you have selected pieces, their coordinates are displaced at the bottom right corner of the level image.
- Added delete hotkey and updated hotkey descriptions.
- Fixed bug: The editor now warns about unsaved levels, even when the last action was to play-test the level.
- Fixed bug: Selecting pieces or changing options do no longer make the level image wriggle around on certain zoom factors.
- Changed preplaced lemmings to be displayed over terrain by default, i.e. not longer using "no-overwrite".
- Added some more code to detect exceptions and avoiding concurrency issues on user input.
- Fixed setting sizes of the hotkey/about pages, so that Raymanni may read everything :)

PS: I will release a full player update today, too, which also contains the new player version. So no need to download the editor from here, if you are going to update everything later on.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Proxima on October 01, 2017, 08:18:27 PM
Just started using this editor today. Mostly it's a huge improvement over the old editor, but there are a few quality-of-life features lacking:

* If I maximise the window, it would be nice if the editor remembered this next time I open it.
* "Open" dialogue could go straight into the "levels" folder.
* The scrollbar under the level should have a button that resizes according to how much of the level is currently on-screen.
* "All to Front", "One to Front" labels are misleading. These features are usually called "To Front" and "Forward", and similarly for the "back" buttons.
* It would be awesome if I could drag the level window / terrain selection window boundary upwards, so as to get more terrain pieces in view at once.
* As with "delete", it would be nice to have a "duplicate" hotkey that copies and pastes a piece with a single keypress. Also, ctrl-C should just copy a piece without duplicating, as users will end up with lots of duplicated pieces in their levels through thinking they have to ctrl-C and then ctrl-V.
* When the grid is active, the arrow keys should move a piece by 8, rather than snapping to a multiple of 8. This allows quick tiling of pieces starting from a position that isn't aligned to the grid (which is sometimes necessary if you want to place tiled pieces next to irregular pieces).
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 01, 2017, 08:32:41 PM
* If I maximise the window, it would be nice if the editor remembered this next time I open it.
* "Open" dialogue could go straight into the "levels" folder.
* The scrollbar under the level should have a button that resizes according to how much of the level is currently on-screen.
* "All to Front", "One to Front" labels are misleading. These features are usually called "To Front" and "Forward", and similarly for the "back" buttons.
Thanks, will do this.

* It would be awesome if I could drag the level window / terrain selection window boundary upwards, so as to get more terrain pieces in view at once.
This will be rather hard to implement, so don't expect this any time soon. But I will keep it in mind.

* As with "delete", it would be nice to have a "duplicate" hotkey that copies and pastes a piece with a single keypress. Also, ctrl-C should just copy a piece without duplicating, as users will end up with lots of duplicated pieces in their levels through thinking they have to ctrl-C and then ctrl-V.
No problem. What hotkey do you suggest for duplicating? Ctrl-D, perhaps?

* When the grid is active, the arrow keys should move a piece by 8, rather than snapping to a multiple of 8. This allows quick tiling of pieces starting from a position that isn't aligned to the grid (which is sometimes necessary if you want to place tiled pieces next to irregular pieces).
I think the current behavior was explicitely requested. The idea behind this was (if I remember correctly) that this allows dragging new pieces onto the level area which then align properly along the grid where all the other aligned pieces were already.
I am not against changing this behavior - in fact it would simplify the code - but I want be sure that everyone would be happy with your proposed change.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Proxima on October 01, 2017, 08:41:57 PM
No problem. What hotkey do you suggest for duplicating? Ctrl-D, perhaps?
No, a single keypress as opposed to ctrl-anything. Saving a very small amount of time, on a very frequently repeated action, adds up to a large saving. Of course, the ideal would be "A" as I'm used to it from Lix, but a different key would be fine too.

Quote
I think the current behavior was explicitly requested. The idea behind this was (if I remember correctly) that this allows dragging new pieces onto the level area which then align properly along the grid where all the other aligned pieces were already.
I am not against changing this behavior - in fact it would simplify the code - but I want be sure that everyone would be happy with your proposed change.
I'm not sure how changing the behaviour of the arrow keys would affect dragging? Anyway, if nothing else, ctrl-arrow (which is explicitly listed as "move by 8 pixels" in the hotkey help) should always move a piece by 8 pixels regardless of whether the grid is active.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 03, 2017, 11:00:26 AM
* The scrollbar under the level should have a button that resizes according to how much of the level is currently on-screen.
I checked this and the button does resize for me. Could you please recheck this issue?

No problem. What hotkey do you suggest for duplicating? Ctrl-D, perhaps?
No, a single keypress as opposed to ctrl-anything. Saving a very small amount of time, on a very frequently repeated action, adds up to a large saving. Of course, the ideal would be "A" as I'm used to it from Lix, but a different key would be fine too.
"A" is already taken for "Set piece to erasing". How about a single click on "C" without having "Ctrl" pressed"?

Quote
I think the current behavior was explicitly requested. The idea behind this was (if I remember correctly) that this allows dragging new pieces onto the level area which then align properly along the grid where all the other aligned pieces were already.
I am not against changing this behavior - in fact it would simplify the code - but I want be sure that everyone would be happy with your proposed change.
I'm not sure how changing the behaviour of the arrow keys would affect dragging? Anyway, if nothing else, ctrl-arrow (which is explicitly listed as "move by 8 pixels" in the hotkey help) should always move a piece by 8 pixels regardless of whether the grid is active.
So you suggest the following behavior: When adding a new piece (by dragging or clicking on the piece selection picture at the bottom), then let the piece automatically snag to the grid. But don't do this if copying an existing piece or moving an existing piece around. Correct?
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 12, 2017, 04:01:22 PM
Version 1.2 is here! I will release a global NeoLemmix update later today, so if you plan to get it there will be no need to download the editor now.

New features and bug fixes:
- Music name selection gets now updated according to tracks in the folder "music".
- Fixed the bugs found by Proxima, in particular the non-working hotkeys to add/remove from the selection.
- Size of the editor is remembered for the next session.
- When moving pieces wth the keys, they no longer snap to the grid.
- "C" duplicates pieces now, "Ctrl+C" just copies them to memory.
- When inserting pieces from memory, they appear now centered around the cursor.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 15, 2017, 10:58:51 AM
The last version update broke hold-to-scroll, because I accidentally deleted the four letters "else" at a certain place in the code. This will be fixed in the next update. Sorry for the inconvenience. :-[
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on October 15, 2017, 01:11:44 PM
I downloaded from this topic; I get the error "can't find "...styles/default/objects". It still works but it's correct that I don't have this folder.
I don't remember where to get this. Shouldn't this be included when downloading the editor or player automatically?

Also I think there are too many places to download the same thing here. There are several places on the forum and on the NeoLemmix website too. It's confusing and I assume more work for the person in charge of the uploads. Why not have one place to download and links to it from other places?
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on October 15, 2017, 01:13:44 PM
a minor glitch(?) After clicking once in the editor my cursor changed to a cross hairs and remains that way over the whole interface.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 15, 2017, 01:15:59 PM
The main download location is either the hompage or the NeoLemmix download thread (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3423.0). As you place the editor in the same folder as the NeoLemmix game and the game requires "styles/default/objects" anyways, there is no need to add this to the editor download, too.

a minor glitch(?) After clicking once in the editor my cursor changed to a cross hairs and remains that way over the whole interface.
Yes, that's exactly the bug I mentioned three posts ago. ;)
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on October 18, 2017, 12:42:06 AM
*this is the same glitch I PM'd you about Nepster*

upon TABBING to another window or pressing control O to open a level; after this I am no longer able to move pieces with my mouse. I can select pieces but they cannot move. I can still move them with the arrow keys.

--------

SUGGESTION:

-when going through skills and entering how many of each if you tab to the next one the cursor goes in front of the 0. I think it'd be better if instead the entire form would be highlighted. Making it easy for example to enter exactly what you want instead of having to backspace etc.*

-when you click once, it selects a piece, you must let go and click again to move it. In the old editor you could move it immediatly. You had to hold control to select multiple pieces. I think I prefer this method; it's seems faster right now.

*now you're thinking 'mobius, how lazy can you be', well as my computer teacher in high school taught; when entering numbers in all day long little things like this can go a long way.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 18, 2017, 04:01:49 PM
upon TABBING to another window or pressing control O to open a level; after this I am no longer able to move pieces with my mouse. I can select pieces but they cannot move. I can still move them with the arrow keys.
Thanks. I can reproduce this bug now and will fix it. The problem occurs when the Ctrl key was pressed while the editor had the focus, but was release while some other application got the focus.

-when going through skills and entering how many of each if you tab to the next one the cursor goes in front of the 0. I think it'd be better if instead the entire form would be highlighted. Making it easy for example to enter exactly what you want instead of having to backspace etc.
Well, the current behavior is the standard Windows behavior. But I can see your point and will override it.

-when you click once, it selects a piece, you must let go and click again to move it. In the old editor you could move it immediatly. You had to hold control to select multiple pieces. I think I prefer this method; it's seems faster right now.
Here we have the problem that there are only so many keys and mouse buttons. At the moment Ctrl is used to add pieces to the current selection (whether by clicking on a single piece or drawing a rectangle with the mouse), which was something I found was missing in the old editor. At the moment I don't know what to do and how to change the key bindings to suit everyone.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on October 18, 2017, 10:51:47 PM
-when you click once, it selects a piece, you must let go and click again to move it. In the old editor you could move it immediatly. You had to hold control to select multiple pieces. I think I prefer this method; it's seems faster right now.
Here we have the problem that there are only so many keys and mouse buttons. At the moment Ctrl is used to add pieces to the current selection (whether by clicking on a single piece or drawing a rectangle with the mouse), which was something I found was missing in the old editor. At the moment I don't know what to do and how to change the key bindings to suit everyone.

I think I can live with it as if; if no change is made. That is a good point you make about adding pieces to the selection. I thought there was a way to do with in the old editor but now I don't remember exactly :-\
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Dullstar on October 20, 2017, 07:02:34 PM
Thoughts on the current version:

 - The grid is something I would like to use, but it needs the ability to make fine adjustments to piece positions. Currently holding control + arrow keys while the grid is enabled moves the piece by a large amount (I assume 8*the size of the grid since it moves 8 pixels without a grid). I would suggest including a key (if there's not already one that I can't find) to move pieces 1 pixel at a time regardless of the grid setting. Maybe control should instead move pieces one pixel at a time when the grid is enabled (and keep its current behavior when it's not?).
 - I would like an option to show the grid.
 - In the hotkeys list, "C" is listed as "Delete selected pieces" and "Delete" is listed as "Duplicate selected pieces." I assume they were meant to be switched, because the keys behave opposite in the editor, and the way they're coded certainly makes a lot more sense than the way they're listed in the hotkeys list.
 - I have no idea how complicated something like this is, but the ability to rebind hotkeys would be nice, though it is certainly not necessary.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 20, 2017, 07:24:50 PM
Thoughts on the current version:

 - The grid is something I would like to use, but it needs the ability to make fine adjustments to piece positions. Currently holding control + arrow keys while the grid is enabled moves the piece by a large amount (I assume 8*the size of the grid since it moves 8 pixels without a grid). I would suggest including a key (if there's not already one that I can't find) to move pieces 1 pixel at a time regardless of the grid setting. Maybe control should instead move pieces one pixel at a time when the grid is enabled (and keep its current behavior when it's not?).
Please describe your preferred grid behavior in this specific topic I just made (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3483.0), because I really don't know what everyone just complains whenever I make some change, but noone decribes in detail what they actually want.

- I would like an option to show the grid.
If there is a lot of support for this feature, I can implement it. But personally I find this more distracting than anything else.

- In the hotkeys list, "C" is listed as "Delete selected pieces" and "Delete" is listed as "Duplicate selected pieces." I assume they were meant to be switched, because the keys behave opposite in the editor, and the way they're coded certainly makes a lot more sense than the way they're listed in the hotkeys list.
Oops. Silly mistake. :-[ Thanks for noticing.

- I have no idea how complicated something like this is, but the ability to rebind hotkeys would be nice, though it is certainly not necessary.
This is on my to-do list, but getting the new-formats version ready is more important for now, so don't expect this anytime soon.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on October 21, 2017, 05:41:38 PM
-when you click once, it selects a piece, you must let go and click again to move it. In the old editor you could move it immediatly. You had to hold control to select multiple pieces. I think I prefer this method; it's seems faster right now.
Here we have the problem that there are only so many keys and mouse buttons. At the moment Ctrl is used to add pieces to the current selection (whether by clicking on a single piece or drawing a rectangle with the mouse), which was something I found was missing in the old editor. At the moment I don't know what to do and how to change the key bindings to suit everyone.

I think I can live with it as if; if no change is made. That is a good point you make about adding pieces to the selection. I thought there was a way to do with in the old editor but now I don't remember exactly :-\


I'm now realizing there is another benefit to this (current behavior), something which wasn't possible in old Lemmix (at least not easily): selecting specific pieces and avoiding others nearby. This was something very frustrating in old Lemmix. Here I believe it wont be as much of an issue. So for now I withdraw my request.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Simon on October 21, 2017, 07:26:21 PM
selecting specific pieces and avoiding others nearby. This was very frustrating in old Lemmix.

2 better answers to this:
And then you can drag the selected piece immediately.

-- Simon
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on October 25, 2017, 09:04:13 PM
selecting specific pieces and avoiding others nearby. This was very frustrating in old Lemmix.

2 better answers to this:
  • Select by pixel. Only when no opaque pixel under the mouse cursor, select by smallest rectangle that encompasses all opaque pixels of a tile; this is helpful to select mesh-shaped terrain. Never select by the size of the graphic.
  • Hover. (Show what piece would be selected if you pressed the mouse button.)
And then you can drag the selected piece immediately.

-- Simon

excellent ideas. I second these suggestions. (I assume this is how lix works, I can't even remember)



has the bug I posted (when tabbing away can no longer drag pieces) been fixed yet? Downloadable in this topic?
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 26, 2017, 06:00:51 PM
From now on, the editor will no longer be downloadable here, only via the NeoLemmix homepage and the new-formats update thread.

Version 1.3:
- Fixed hold-to-scroll.
- Fixed tabbing out of the window bug
- Fixed placing of pieces saved in the clipboard
- Fixed hotkey descriptions of delete and duplicate
- Fixed talisman saving bug
- When selecting numeric text boxes, the number will be selected now.

I have not yet implemented any more changes to the grid, but keep an eye on the discussion about it. Nor have I yet implemented any of Simon's suggestions.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on October 28, 2017, 02:18:24 PM
:thumbsup: thanks for fixing the bugs!!! [they were very annoying]

a minor wishlist:

1) if it would be at all possible; I really liked the 'Align' feature of old Lemmix. You could select a number of pieces then tile them horizontally or vertically (or diagonally if I recall correctly.) It had some interesting uses. It was an option under the "selection" menu. And it allowed for quickly designing some things.

2) I doubt if this is possible under the new way the editor implements things but being able to change a selected tile on screen to another one was kind of nice.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 30, 2017, 09:30:33 AM
1) if it would be at all possible; I really liked the 'Align' feature of old Lemmix. You could select a number of pieces then tile them horizontally or vertically (or diagonally if I recall correctly.) It had some interesting uses. It was an option under the "selection" menu. And it allowed for quickly designing some things.
Wow, I didn't even know that this was possible in the old editor. I will have a look at the old editor to see what this does exactly, and then decide whether to add this to the new one depending a bit on the amound of coding work needed.

2) I doubt if this is possible under the new way the editor implements things but being able to change a selected tile on screen to another one was kind of nice.
Sorry, but this will not be possible any more. First of all deleting the old piece and dragging the new piece to its position is almost as fast. On the other hand it would mean coding a new user interface just for this purpose and the background code is not written to allow such things, so this feature would most likely be extremely buggy.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: IchoTolot on October 30, 2017, 10:49:18 PM
General question: Is the new editor able to reliably load/save levels now?   

I will start and go through every single level of my stuff checking+fixing ceiling dependencies and I only can/want to make further Pimolems edits in the new editor now as the old nxp version has the wrong music set up for the new format version and cannot easily be converted again as then it would require more grep actions to set it right in all text files again ---> using the new editor and letting the old version be would be the best at least for this pack.
For that I really want to know if this is somewhat reliable now as I really don't want to do double work checking all 145 levels of this pack twice.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on October 31, 2017, 08:55:54 AM
Yes, with two exceptions:
- Anything that isn't implemented in the editor, like rotated exits or upside-down hatches, ... The editor will simply ignore such flags when loading a level and hence save them as normally oriented objects.
- Any bugs that may still lurk in the editor code. ;)
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on November 01, 2017, 02:08:59 AM
how do you make an entrance lemmings come out facing left? I don't see an option in the editor.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Proxima on November 01, 2017, 02:12:44 AM
Select the "Pieces" menu (using the buttons at the top) and then "Flip". (This will also flip the graphic, which is rather silly. Not sure if that's still up for discussion.)
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: IchoTolot on November 01, 2017, 07:45:10 AM
how do you make an entrance lemmings come out facing left? I don't see an option in the editor.

Normally we had "face left" for this which didn't flip the graphic and I think in the hatch (and teleporter! + possibly more) case we still need it as often the flipped graphic looks silly with wrong lighting effects and so on.

So I propose "face left" should come back as I can't find it either.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on November 01, 2017, 11:51:15 AM
First of all: The player still distinguishes between "Flip" and "Face Left". It's just a question what is exposed to the level designer in the editor.

And for the editor, I don't want to add a second button "Face Left", which does nothing for almost all object types. I found this absolutely confusing in the old editor. But I am open to suggestions that "Flip" should work differently for some object types:
Hatches: Should it always just change the direction of the lemmings and never flip the sprite?
Teleporters: Thanks for noticing that flipping lemmings in teleporters is still present in NeoLemmix. That's a perfect candidate to be culled. As for the actual topic at hand: As the sprite is the only way for the player to tell in advance whether the teleporter flips lemmings or not, I strongly prefer to keep this visual clue.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Proxima on November 01, 2017, 12:21:26 PM
Hatches: Should it always just change the direction of the lemmings and never flip the sprite?

Yes. Nearly all hatches are symmetrical except for lighting and the background seen through the trapdoor. These are too subtle (especially for new players) to act as good visual indicators, so you're left with the lighting looking wrong. I don't think a visual indicator is needed in any case, since you can tell which way lemmings come out facing very easily.

In case some of the usermade styles have hatches that would benefit from flipping, perhaps have the specification for hatches include an optional flipped sprite, and if none is present, don't flip.

Quote
Teleporters: Thanks for noticing that flipping lemmings in teleporters is still present in NeoLemmix. That's a perfect candidate to be culled. As for the actual topic at hand: As the sprite is the only way for the player to tell in advance whether the teleporter flips lemmings or not, I strongly prefer to keep this visual clue.

But again that doesn't work with teleporters that are symmetrical except for lighting (don't know if there are any). It's also confusing for new players, since they haven't gotten used to one orientation being the default, and this has to be learned separately for every type of teleporter.

Just cull....
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: IchoTolot on November 01, 2017, 01:00:08 PM
For the hatch I think a direction change would be enough for the flip, but I saw quite a larger number of cases that used graphically flipped hatches as well, so I am not sure about the merge here. Hatches where the graphic flip really sticks out would be hatches like L2_medieval. For me a direction flip would be enough though.

I am 100% against the direction change cull of the teleporter, but details to that in the topic: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3524.msg67299#msg67299
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: mobius on December 01, 2017, 01:03:04 AM
It would be really nice if it were possible to copy terrain from a level, close the level, open another and paste it. It currently is not; when you try to do this a message says: "no material on clipboard; continue operation?" and clicking NO closes the program! ???

It's not something I used on the old editor real often; but can really come in handy; allowing you to create/copy huge or complex structures very fast.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: IchoTolot on December 01, 2017, 07:57:06 AM
It would be really nice if it were possible to copy terrain from a level, close the level, open another and paste it. It currently is not; when you try to do this a message says: "no material on clipboard; continue operation?" and clicking NO closes the program! ???

It's not something I used on the old editor real often; but can really come in handy; allowing you to create/copy huge or complex structures very fast.

I would support this. As mobius said I didn't use it that often too, but in these cases he described it's really handy.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on December 01, 2017, 04:48:07 PM
Yeah, this is already on my to-do list. Unfortunately when I started coding the editor I didn't know how to access the clipboard, so implemented an in-editor copy-paste system. This means that it will be quite some work now to rewrite it properly using the actual clipboard. Not sure when I will get to that...
Title: NLEditor [SUG]drag and drop
Post by: mobius on February 23, 2018, 01:49:22 AM
request to add support  for dragging and dropping files into the editor to Open them.

reasons: I often have folders open and am looking through files while using the editor and this way it's very easy/quick to drag and drop to edit levels in the editor (I do this all the time with Chips challenge where it works great). It's actually quicker than pressing ctl-O or opening the menu and going through the dialogue boxes/folders that way.
Title: Re: NLEditor - a new file-type NeoLemmix editor - Test version
Post by: Nepster on February 25, 2018, 02:02:03 PM
At the moment I don't know how such features can be implement, but I will see what I can do.