what I was thinking with the shimmier was that if you click on a lemming to shimmy but no ceiling is there; nothing happens at all; he only jumps when a appropriate ceiling is present.This contradicts the expectations of players: For all non-permanent skills (with the exception of miners/diggers on steel) the lemming tries at least one cycle of the respective skill: Airbashing, laying one brick, ... This at least shows that the skill assignment was successful. So the player would except the lemming to at least try to reach a ceiling. And even the player themself profits from such tries, because they see how close they are to reaching the ceiling. Otherwise they don't know if the ceiling is 8 pixels too high up, or just one single pixel.
I know Lix has had some issues with the jumper but I don't recall it being particularly more problematic than any other skill.It is true that we can see how Lix solved the issues and adapt the solutions. But with jumpers we automatically need (at least to some degree) tumbler mechanics. And I remember there to be quite a few glitches regarding tumblers getting stuck in terrain, and similar issues.
But with jumpers we automatically need (at least to some degree) tumbler mechanics.
what I was thinking with the shimmier was that if you click on a lemming to shimmy but no ceiling is there; nothing happens at all; he only jumps when a appropriate ceiling is present.This contradicts the expectations of players: For all non-permanent skills (with the exception of miners/diggers on steel) the lemming tries at least one cycle of the respective skill: Airbashing, laying one brick, ... This at least shows that the skill assignment was successful. So the player would except the lemming to at least try to reach a ceiling. And even the player themself profits from such tries, because they see how close they are to reaching the ceiling. Otherwise they don't know if the ceiling is 8 pixels too high up, or just one single pixel.
In Lemmings 2, it lasted a set amount of timeNope, it's actually 100 pixels, which is the fall height in L2, except it starts a few pixels above the ground so if a lemming drops from right at the very top of the hole it will splat.
Another behaviour in L2, which I'm not sure if it's desirable or not, is that the shimmier will stop if it encounters terrain under its feet. In particular, that means you cannot traverse basher tunnels. You'd have to use a second basher to make the basher tunnel taller and thus traversable.I would love to have both features. Perhaps the way to go is to use a sprite with the legs pulled up a bit, so that they won't touch the ground of a basher tunnel? Or will this look too weird?
I would love to have both features. Perhaps the way to go is to use a sprite with the legs pulled up a bit, so that they won't touch the ground of a basher tunnel? Or will this look too weird?I was trying to figure out how that would look and made an edit of the L2 shimmier sprite with the lemming's feet up. The difference is barely noticable because there are so few pixels. :D
Glue-pourer: While very powerful, the exact mechanics are not easy to understand, especially when it comes to slopes: On a 30° slope the glue runs down without sticking anywhere. On a 45° slope it runs down for about 8 pixels and then sticks. I still don't know why exactly it does that? If it runs down big steps (like with vertical walls of 8 pixels or so) it never glues, as far as I can tell. At ledges the behavior of a single pixel of glue depends on whether the pixel below it is air, usual terrain or another glue-pixel that just got solid. Not to mention that when running along the glue is twice as fast as a lemming, but somehow slows down when sticking.
On a 45° slope it runs down for about 8 pixels and then sticks.
If it runs down big steps (like with vertical walls of 8 pixels or so) it never glues, as far as I can tell
when running along the glue is twice as fast as a lemming, but somehow slows down when sticking
glue pixel has a current direction of either DOWN or RIGHT.
when updating the glue pixel for movement, turn the glue to terrain in the following 4 cases (T = terrain, . = air, v = glue current direction DOWN, > = glue current direction RIGHT)
Tv
T.
Tv
..
vT
T
>T
T
In all other cases, move glue down one if pixel below is air, else move right one. Update the current direction based on whether you moved down or moved right.
Shimmier:
At the moment I lean towards always jumping, even if no ceiling is present. Perhaps we could use the same terrain checks as for climbers to detect problematic terrain in stomach-height?
And although I said in my first post, that we can't transition from climber to shimmier, there are actually ways to implement this now: All assignments are remembered for about half a second, if they cannot be assigned immediately to the lemming. This would be true for a shimmier-assignment to a climber as well. So whenever a climber hits the ceiling, they could check whether a shimmier assignment is remembered and if so, transition to a shimmier along the ceiling.
Another issue that we have to discuss is: What slopes can a shimmer handle? It would be nice if a shimmier could move along the ceiling of a miner tunnel. But the ceiling there is far less regular than the bottom, so a simple rule like "may not move two pixels up or down within moving two pixels forward" would prevent that.
I don’t really see any benefit to being able to shimmy along the ceiling of a miner’s tunnel?*Please solve kieranmillar's sports tribe. There are some very ingenious uses for shimmiers contained there. I don't say, that it actually uses shimmying along a miner tunnel's ceiling, but you'll certainly find similar uses there.
Although; changing the ceiling of the miner’s tunnel doesn’t seem like something that would be a major problem. How many levels are critical on the exact shape of the ceiling of the miner’s tunnel?If I do that, then I will get major complains, because it will break thousands of replays. No way this is going to happen...
but if we want a huge roster of L2 skills in Neolemmix
That sounds good for mebut if we want a huge roster of L2 skills in Neolemmix
You don't need to worry; it's abundantly clear that no-one wants this. We're talking about the possibility of adding only a very small number of skills, the ones we think will most improve puzzle possibilities, like the fencer.
I've always been wondering whether there was some way to implement an upward digger. <snip>